Soft plastics found in trout stomachs

[Shawn]

Budd :

I'm a fisheries biologist with the State of Vermont's Fish & Wildlife
Department. Last fall and early this spring I received a number of calls
about large brown trout (that we stock in a nearby 2,200-acre lake) having
very strange grubs or insect larvae in their stomach. Of course, without
seeing the stomach contents, I couldn't comment on what the trout might have
been eating, but I told the anglers to keep the stomachs next time they
found such things when cleaning their fish. Over the winter ice-fishing
season, and through this spring, several anglers brought stomachs from brown
trout ranging from 2 to 10 pounds into the local baitshop. The owner of the
shop put the stomachs in the freezer, then called me one day this spring
when he had 8 or 10 stomachs in ziplock bags. I told him to thaw them out
and I'd be down in an hour or so.

I brought all my insect guides, minnow guides etc etc - anything I thought
might help me identify the strange prey these brown trout were eating. But,
when I got to the baitshop and picked up the first "grub", I started to
laugh. When I told the baitshop owner it was a "senko", he immediately
realized I was right and turned red, embarrassed he didn't realize it
himself right away. Anyways, out of the 10 stomachs I examined that day
with the strange "grubs" in them, every one of them turned out to be plastic
baits of some sort. One stomach from an 8-pound brown trout had 14
different plastic lures in it, ranging from senkos to tube jigs to flukes to
broken pieces of what looked like plastic worm bits.

Now - this is what I think is happening. I'm also a bass fisherman, and I
fish in our local Bassmasters club. So, I know how fast bass fisherman go
through soft plastics. At the end of a day's fishing, whether for a
tournament or just for fun, the floor of my boat and my friends boats are
littered with soft plastics that are torn and won't stay on hooks anymore.
Most ethical fisherman who care about the environment, the lakes they fish,
and the fish they're after take those plastics home and dispose of them
properly. However, I have personally witnessed countless times, fisherman
tearing off a plastic worm and throwing it into the lake. Maybe sometimes
the plastics blow out of the bass boats as they tear across the lake at
70mph. No matter how these plastics are getting into the lake, I have now
seen first hand that trout WILL eat them. Not only do they eat them as they
gently sway and sink to the bottom of an 80-foot deep lake, in my opinion
they are also being picked up after they've reached the bottom. Brown trout
will forage the bottom of lakes, and in the winter under the ice will do so
in very shallow water even. Since seeing the plastics in the stomachs, I've
spoken to more and more trout fisherman and I'm finding this is a much too
common occurence - alot of the trout fisherman are getting brown trout with
plastics in their stomachs in January, February, and March.

Anyone who is familiar with Vermont knows that our bass fishing season ends
in November, and that from December to mid-April our lakes are buried under
2 to 3 feet of ice, so these plastics being eating by brown trout are not
fresh. It could also be that the plastics were picked up by the trout in
the previous summer and fall, and haven't been digested or passed. This
worries me even more since I don't know what the full impact of bass
fisherman tossing their used plastics into the lake could be on the brown
trout.

So - to answer your question - YES trout WILL soft plastic baits, and
rigging that way for them is likely a hot technique in certain situations to
take them.

But more importantly to the bass fisherman (and all plastic bait users) is
DO NOT throw your used plastics in the water. If fish will hit them when
they're on your hook, they certainly will hit them and swallow them when
they're not !

For work, I will be making a targeted attempt to educate Vermont anglers on
this issue. Please spread the word !

Shawn




"Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
...
> Greetings from the S.E. Utah desert country.
>
> Spent a few hours yesterday afternoon in the local mountains at a popular
> trout lake, Oowah Lake, near my home in Moab, UT. had considerable success
> in catching 1-3 pound Rainbows on red / white and black / white spoons,
but
> my wife discovered something I though was rather odd.
>
> She rigged up with a small portion of a 6" Senko clone on an old but sharp
> Aberdeen hook and began getting solid bites. Exposing the hook point more
> got her five nice trout in about 30 minutes (she doesn't fish a lot)
before
> a big one broke her line.
>
> I changed over to an Eagle Claw Tru-Turn and another chunk of the plastic
> worm and after 7 more fish ( I caught 10 on spoons) caught the biggest
'Bow
> of the afternoon, about 17 inches long.
>
> Ok, does anybody have any ideas about this? I've never heard of anything
> like this ... Trout on Bass lures. I'm gonna have to try it again. <VBG>
>
> All comments welcome.
>
> Budd
>
>

[RGarri7470]

Reminds me of the story and picture I posted ast November of a bass with 19
plastic worms in its stomach

http://fishing.about.com/cs/fishfactsinfo/a/aa110303a.htm
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[Budd Cochran]

Well, largemouth bass are commonly called "HAWGS!!!" right?

<VBG>

Budd

"RGarri7470" > wrote in message
...
> Reminds me of the story and picture I posted ast November of a bass with
19
> plastic worms in its stomach
>
> http://fishing.about.com/cs/fishfactsinfo/a/aa110303a.htm
> Ronnie
>
> http://fishing.about.com

[MMccoy01]

I caught a small bass a couple of months ago that had about 2/3 of a plastic
worm hanging out it's ass.
Mark McCoy<br>
McCoy's Market Bumpus Mills, Tennessee<br>
http://www.mccoysmarket.com

[MMccoy01]

I caught a small bass a couple of months ago that had about 2/3 of a plastic
worm hanging out it's ass.
Mark McCoy<br>
McCoy's Market Bumpus Mills, Tennessee<br>
http://www.mccoysmarket.com

[John]

So what?
Is there any thing special with these items?
Is there any demonstrated harm?
Fish have eaten all sort of mankind's refuse in water bodies for centuries,
so what?
Maybe the plastics have been eaten and passed and eaten and passed time and
time again, if so is this a big problem?
The plastics came from stomachs of live fish that were eaten by humans,
right?
Are the plastics only found in 2-8 pound brown trout?
Are they only found in Vermont's 2,200 acre lake?

Your post raises lots of questions. If this is a "NEW" event occurring in
multiple states in multiple water bodies with multiple species there may be
a big problem causing loss of fish life or health and forecasting fishery
declines. If these plastics are just starting to be accumulating in fish
stomachs, it could forecast issues in years ahead.

Has anyone heard of this quantity happening elsewhere?

John


--
Remove FLY to reply
"Shawn" > wrote in message
...
> Budd :
>
> I'm a fisheries biologist with the State of Vermont's Fish & Wildlife
> Department. Last fall and early this spring I received a number of calls
> about large brown trout (that we stock in a nearby 2,200-acre lake) having
> very strange grubs or insect larvae in their stomach. Of course, without
> seeing the stomach contents, I couldn't comment on what the trout might
have
> been eating, but I told the anglers to keep the stomachs next time they
> found such things when cleaning their fish. Over the winter ice-fishing
> season, and through this spring, several anglers brought stomachs from
brown
> trout ranging from 2 to 10 pounds into the local baitshop. The owner of
the
> shop put the stomachs in the freezer, then called me one day this spring
> when he had 8 or 10 stomachs in ziplock bags. I told him to thaw them out
> and I'd be down in an hour or so.
>
> I brought all my insect guides, minnow guides etc etc - anything I thought
> might help me identify the strange prey these brown trout were eating.
But,
> when I got to the baitshop and picked up the first "grub", I started to
> laugh. When I told the baitshop owner it was a "senko", he immediately
> realized I was right and turned red, embarrassed he didn't realize it
> himself right away. Anyways, out of the 10 stomachs I examined that day
> with the strange "grubs" in them, every one of them turned out to be
plastic
> baits of some sort. One stomach from an 8-pound brown trout had 14
> different plastic lures in it, ranging from senkos to tube jigs to flukes
to
> broken pieces of what looked like plastic worm bits.
>
> Now - this is what I think is happening. I'm also a bass fisherman, and I
> fish in our local Bassmasters club. So, I know how fast bass fisherman go
> through soft plastics. At the end of a day's fishing, whether for a
> tournament or just for fun, the floor of my boat and my friends boats are
> littered with soft plastics that are torn and won't stay on hooks anymore.
> Most ethical fisherman who care about the environment, the lakes they
fish,
> and the fish they're after take those plastics home and dispose of them
> properly. However, I have personally witnessed countless times, fisherman
> tearing off a plastic worm and throwing it into the lake. Maybe sometimes
> the plastics blow out of the bass boats as they tear across the lake at
> 70mph. No matter how these plastics are getting into the lake, I have now
> seen first hand that trout WILL eat them. Not only do they eat them as
they
> gently sway and sink to the bottom of an 80-foot deep lake, in my opinion
> they are also being picked up after they've reached the bottom. Brown
trout
> will forage the bottom of lakes, and in the winter under the ice will do
so
> in very shallow water even. Since seeing the plastics in the stomachs,
I've
> spoken to more and more trout fisherman and I'm finding this is a much too
> common occurence - alot of the trout fisherman are getting brown trout
with
> plastics in their stomachs in January, February, and March.
>
> Anyone who is familiar with Vermont knows that our bass fishing season
ends
> in November, and that from December to mid-April our lakes are buried
under
> 2 to 3 feet of ice, so these plastics being eating by brown trout are not
> fresh. It could also be that the plastics were picked up by the trout in
> the previous summer and fall, and haven't been digested or passed. This
> worries me even more since I don't know what the full impact of bass
> fisherman tossing their used plastics into the lake could be on the brown
> trout.
>
> So - to answer your question - YES trout WILL soft plastic baits, and
> rigging that way for them is likely a hot technique in certain situations
to
> take them.
>
> But more importantly to the bass fisherman (and all plastic bait users) is
> DO NOT throw your used plastics in the water. If fish will hit them when
> they're on your hook, they certainly will hit them and swallow them when
> they're not !
>
> For work, I will be making a targeted attempt to educate Vermont anglers
on
> this issue. Please spread the word !
>
> Shawn
>
>
>
>
> "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Greetings from the S.E. Utah desert country.
> >
> > Spent a few hours yesterday afternoon in the local mountains at a
popular
> > trout lake, Oowah Lake, near my home in Moab, UT. had considerable
success
> > in catching 1-3 pound Rainbows on red / white and black / white spoons,
> but
> > my wife discovered something I though was rather odd.
> >
> > She rigged up with a small portion of a 6" Senko clone on an old but
sharp
> > Aberdeen hook and began getting solid bites. Exposing the hook point
more
> > got her five nice trout in about 30 minutes (she doesn't fish a lot)
> before
> > a big one broke her line.
> >
> > I changed over to an Eagle Claw Tru-Turn and another chunk of the
plastic
> > worm and after 7 more fish ( I caught 10 on spoons) caught the biggest
> 'Bow
> > of the afternoon, about 17 inches long.
> >
> > Ok, does anybody have any ideas about this? I've never heard of anything
> > like this ... Trout on Bass lures. I'm gonna have to try it again. <VBG>
> >
> > All comments welcome.
> >
> > Budd
> >
> >
>
>

[John]

So what?
Is there any thing special with these items?
Is there any demonstrated harm?
Fish have eaten all sort of mankind's refuse in water bodies for centuries,
so what?
Maybe the plastics have been eaten and passed and eaten and passed time and
time again, if so is this a big problem?
The plastics came from stomachs of live fish that were eaten by humans,
right?
Are the plastics only found in 2-8 pound brown trout?
Are they only found in Vermont's 2,200 acre lake?

Your post raises lots of questions. If this is a "NEW" event occurring in
multiple states in multiple water bodies with multiple species there may be
a big problem causing loss of fish life or health and forecasting fishery
declines. If these plastics are just starting to be accumulating in fish
stomachs, it could forecast issues in years ahead.

Has anyone heard of this quantity happening elsewhere?

John


--
Remove FLY to reply
"Shawn" > wrote in message
...
> Budd :
>
> I'm a fisheries biologist with the State of Vermont's Fish & Wildlife
> Department. Last fall and early this spring I received a number of calls
> about large brown trout (that we stock in a nearby 2,200-acre lake) having
> very strange grubs or insect larvae in their stomach. Of course, without
> seeing the stomach contents, I couldn't comment on what the trout might
have
> been eating, but I told the anglers to keep the stomachs next time they
> found such things when cleaning their fish. Over the winter ice-fishing
> season, and through this spring, several anglers brought stomachs from
brown
> trout ranging from 2 to 10 pounds into the local baitshop. The owner of
the
> shop put the stomachs in the freezer, then called me one day this spring
> when he had 8 or 10 stomachs in ziplock bags. I told him to thaw them out
> and I'd be down in an hour or so.
>
> I brought all my insect guides, minnow guides etc etc - anything I thought
> might help me identify the strange prey these brown trout were eating.
But,
> when I got to the baitshop and picked up the first "grub", I started to
> laugh. When I told the baitshop owner it was a "senko", he immediately
> realized I was right and turned red, embarrassed he didn't realize it
> himself right away. Anyways, out of the 10 stomachs I examined that day
> with the strange "grubs" in them, every one of them turned out to be
plastic
> baits of some sort. One stomach from an 8-pound brown trout had 14
> different plastic lures in it, ranging from senkos to tube jigs to flukes
to
> broken pieces of what looked like plastic worm bits.
>
> Now - this is what I think is happening. I'm also a bass fisherman, and I
> fish in our local Bassmasters club. So, I know how fast bass fisherman go
> through soft plastics. At the end of a day's fishing, whether for a
> tournament or just for fun, the floor of my boat and my friends boats are
> littered with soft plastics that are torn and won't stay on hooks anymore.
> Most ethical fisherman who care about the environment, the lakes they
fish,
> and the fish they're after take those plastics home and dispose of them
> properly. However, I have personally witnessed countless times, fisherman
> tearing off a plastic worm and throwing it into the lake. Maybe sometimes
> the plastics blow out of the bass boats as they tear across the lake at
> 70mph. No matter how these plastics are getting into the lake, I have now
> seen first hand that trout WILL eat them. Not only do they eat them as
they
> gently sway and sink to the bottom of an 80-foot deep lake, in my opinion
> they are also being picked up after they've reached the bottom. Brown
trout
> will forage the bottom of lakes, and in the winter under the ice will do
so
> in very shallow water even. Since seeing the plastics in the stomachs,
I've
> spoken to more and more trout fisherman and I'm finding this is a much too
> common occurence - alot of the trout fisherman are getting brown trout
with
> plastics in their stomachs in January, February, and March.
>
> Anyone who is familiar with Vermont knows that our bass fishing season
ends
> in November, and that from December to mid-April our lakes are buried
under
> 2 to 3 feet of ice, so these plastics being eating by brown trout are not
> fresh. It could also be that the plastics were picked up by the trout in
> the previous summer and fall, and haven't been digested or passed. This
> worries me even more since I don't know what the full impact of bass
> fisherman tossing their used plastics into the lake could be on the brown
> trout.
>
> So - to answer your question - YES trout WILL soft plastic baits, and
> rigging that way for them is likely a hot technique in certain situations
to
> take them.
>
> But more importantly to the bass fisherman (and all plastic bait users) is
> DO NOT throw your used plastics in the water. If fish will hit them when
> they're on your hook, they certainly will hit them and swallow them when
> they're not !
>
> For work, I will be making a targeted attempt to educate Vermont anglers
on
> this issue. Please spread the word !
>
> Shawn
>
>
>
>
> "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Greetings from the S.E. Utah desert country.
> >
> > Spent a few hours yesterday afternoon in the local mountains at a
popular
> > trout lake, Oowah Lake, near my home in Moab, UT. had considerable
success
> > in catching 1-3 pound Rainbows on red / white and black / white spoons,
> but
> > my wife discovered something I though was rather odd.
> >
> > She rigged up with a small portion of a 6" Senko clone on an old but
sharp
> > Aberdeen hook and began getting solid bites. Exposing the hook point
more
> > got her five nice trout in about 30 minutes (she doesn't fish a lot)
> before
> > a big one broke her line.
> >
> > I changed over to an Eagle Claw Tru-Turn and another chunk of the
plastic
> > worm and after 7 more fish ( I caught 10 on spoons) caught the biggest
> 'Bow
> > of the afternoon, about 17 inches long.
> >
> > Ok, does anybody have any ideas about this? I've never heard of anything
> > like this ... Trout on Bass lures. I'm gonna have to try it again. <VBG>
> >
> > All comments welcome.
> >
> > Budd
> >
> >
>
>

[Budd Cochran]

A handle, maybe?

Starter rope?

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Budd

"MMccoy01" > wrote in message
...
> I caught a small bass a couple of months ago that had about 2/3 of a
plastic
> worm hanging out it's ass.
> Mark McCoy<br>
> McCoy's Market Bumpus Mills, Tennessee<br>
> http://www.mccoysmarket.com
>

[Budd Cochran]

A handle, maybe?

Starter rope?

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Budd

"MMccoy01" > wrote in message
...
> I caught a small bass a couple of months ago that had about 2/3 of a
plastic
> worm hanging out it's ass.
> Mark McCoy<br>
> McCoy's Market Bumpus Mills, Tennessee<br>
> http://www.mccoysmarket.com
>

[Budd Cochran]

I think Shawn's point is that the plastics might cause the fish to not have
stomach room for normal food and starve to death because of it. I can see
where it is possible and I'm not even a tree hugger.

Budd

"John" > wrote in message
...
> So what?
> Is there any thing special with these items?
> Is there any demonstrated harm?
> Fish have eaten all sort of mankind's refuse in water bodies for
centuries,
> so what?
> Maybe the plastics have been eaten and passed and eaten and passed time
and
> time again, if so is this a big problem?
> The plastics came from stomachs of live fish that were eaten by humans,
> right?
> Are the plastics only found in 2-8 pound brown trout?
> Are they only found in Vermont's 2,200 acre lake?
>
> Your post raises lots of questions. If this is a "NEW" event occurring in
> multiple states in multiple water bodies with multiple species there may
be
> a big problem causing loss of fish life or health and forecasting fishery
> declines. If these plastics are just starting to be accumulating in fish
> stomachs, it could forecast issues in years ahead.
>
> Has anyone heard of this quantity happening elsewhere?
>
> John
>
>
> --
> Remove FLY to reply
> "Shawn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Budd :
> >
> > I'm a fisheries biologist with the State of Vermont's Fish & Wildlife
> > Department. Last fall and early this spring I received a number of
calls
> > about large brown trout (that we stock in a nearby 2,200-acre lake)
having
> > very strange grubs or insect larvae in their stomach. Of course,
without
> > seeing the stomach contents, I couldn't comment on what the trout might
> have
> > been eating, but I told the anglers to keep the stomachs next time they
> > found such things when cleaning their fish. Over the winter ice-fishing
> > season, and through this spring, several anglers brought stomachs from
> brown
> > trout ranging from 2 to 10 pounds into the local baitshop. The owner of
> the
> > shop put the stomachs in the freezer, then called me one day this spring
> > when he had 8 or 10 stomachs in ziplock bags. I told him to thaw them
out
> > and I'd be down in an hour or so.
> >
> > I brought all my insect guides, minnow guides etc etc - anything I
thought
> > might help me identify the strange prey these brown trout were eating.
> But,
> > when I got to the baitshop and picked up the first "grub", I started to
> > laugh. When I told the baitshop owner it was a "senko", he immediately
> > realized I was right and turned red, embarrassed he didn't realize it
> > himself right away. Anyways, out of the 10 stomachs I examined that day
> > with the strange "grubs" in them, every one of them turned out to be
> plastic
> > baits of some sort. One stomach from an 8-pound brown trout had 14
> > different plastic lures in it, ranging from senkos to tube jigs to
flukes
> to
> > broken pieces of what looked like plastic worm bits.
> >
> > Now - this is what I think is happening. I'm also a bass fisherman, and
I
> > fish in our local Bassmasters club. So, I know how fast bass fisherman
go
> > through soft plastics. At the end of a day's fishing, whether for a
> > tournament or just for fun, the floor of my boat and my friends boats
are
> > littered with soft plastics that are torn and won't stay on hooks
anymore.
> > Most ethical fisherman who care about the environment, the lakes they
> fish,
> > and the fish they're after take those plastics home and dispose of them
> > properly. However, I have personally witnessed countless times,
fisherman
> > tearing off a plastic worm and throwing it into the lake. Maybe
sometimes
> > the plastics blow out of the bass boats as they tear across the lake at
> > 70mph. No matter how these plastics are getting into the lake, I have
now
> > seen first hand that trout WILL eat them. Not only do they eat them as
> they
> > gently sway and sink to the bottom of an 80-foot deep lake, in my
opinion
> > they are also being picked up after they've reached the bottom. Brown
> trout
> > will forage the bottom of lakes, and in the winter under the ice will do
> so
> > in very shallow water even. Since seeing the plastics in the stomachs,
> I've
> > spoken to more and more trout fisherman and I'm finding this is a much
too
> > common occurence - alot of the trout fisherman are getting brown trout
> with
> > plastics in their stomachs in January, February, and March.
> >
> > Anyone who is familiar with Vermont knows that our bass fishing season
> ends
> > in November, and that from December to mid-April our lakes are buried
> under
> > 2 to 3 feet of ice, so these plastics being eating by brown trout are
not
> > fresh. It could also be that the plastics were picked up by the trout
in
> > the previous summer and fall, and haven't been digested or passed. This
> > worries me even more since I don't know what the full impact of bass
> > fisherman tossing their used plastics into the lake could be on the
brown
> > trout.
> >
> > So - to answer your question - YES trout WILL soft plastic baits, and
> > rigging that way for them is likely a hot technique in certain
situations
> to
> > take them.
> >
> > But more importantly to the bass fisherman (and all plastic bait users)
is
> > DO NOT throw your used plastics in the water. If fish will hit them
when
> > they're on your hook, they certainly will hit them and swallow them when
> > they're not !
> >
> > For work, I will be making a targeted attempt to educate Vermont anglers
> on
> > this issue. Please spread the word !
> >
> > Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Greetings from the S.E. Utah desert country.
> > >
> > > Spent a few hours yesterday afternoon in the local mountains at a
> popular
> > > trout lake, Oowah Lake, near my home in Moab, UT. had considerable
> success
> > > in catching 1-3 pound Rainbows on red / white and black / white
spoons,
> > but
> > > my wife discovered something I though was rather odd.
> > >
> > > She rigged up with a small portion of a 6" Senko clone on an old but
> sharp
> > > Aberdeen hook and began getting solid bites. Exposing the hook point
> more
> > > got her five nice trout in about 30 minutes (she doesn't fish a lot)
> > before
> > > a big one broke her line.
> > >
> > > I changed over to an Eagle Claw Tru-Turn and another chunk of the
> plastic
> > > worm and after 7 more fish ( I caught 10 on spoons) caught the biggest
> > 'Bow
> > > of the afternoon, about 17 inches long.
> > >
> > > Ok, does anybody have any ideas about this? I've never heard of
anything
> > > like this ... Trout on Bass lures. I'm gonna have to try it again.
<VBG>
> > >
> > > All comments welcome.
> > >
> > > Budd
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Budd Cochran]

I think Shawn's point is that the plastics might cause the fish to not have
stomach room for normal food and starve to death because of it. I can see
where it is possible and I'm not even a tree hugger.

Budd

"John" > wrote in message
...
> So what?
> Is there any thing special with these items?
> Is there any demonstrated harm?
> Fish have eaten all sort of mankind's refuse in water bodies for
centuries,
> so what?
> Maybe the plastics have been eaten and passed and eaten and passed time
and
> time again, if so is this a big problem?
> The plastics came from stomachs of live fish that were eaten by humans,
> right?
> Are the plastics only found in 2-8 pound brown trout?
> Are they only found in Vermont's 2,200 acre lake?
>
> Your post raises lots of questions. If this is a "NEW" event occurring in
> multiple states in multiple water bodies with multiple species there may
be
> a big problem causing loss of fish life or health and forecasting fishery
> declines. If these plastics are just starting to be accumulating in fish
> stomachs, it could forecast issues in years ahead.
>
> Has anyone heard of this quantity happening elsewhere?
>
> John
>
>
> --
> Remove FLY to reply
> "Shawn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Budd :
> >
> > I'm a fisheries biologist with the State of Vermont's Fish & Wildlife
> > Department. Last fall and early this spring I received a number of
calls
> > about large brown trout (that we stock in a nearby 2,200-acre lake)
having
> > very strange grubs or insect larvae in their stomach. Of course,
without
> > seeing the stomach contents, I couldn't comment on what the trout might
> have
> > been eating, but I told the anglers to keep the stomachs next time they
> > found such things when cleaning their fish. Over the winter ice-fishing
> > season, and through this spring, several anglers brought stomachs from
> brown
> > trout ranging from 2 to 10 pounds into the local baitshop. The owner of
> the
> > shop put the stomachs in the freezer, then called me one day this spring
> > when he had 8 or 10 stomachs in ziplock bags. I told him to thaw them
out
> > and I'd be down in an hour or so.
> >
> > I brought all my insect guides, minnow guides etc etc - anything I
thought
> > might help me identify the strange prey these brown trout were eating.
> But,
> > when I got to the baitshop and picked up the first "grub", I started to
> > laugh. When I told the baitshop owner it was a "senko", he immediately
> > realized I was right and turned red, embarrassed he didn't realize it
> > himself right away. Anyways, out of the 10 stomachs I examined that day
> > with the strange "grubs" in them, every one of them turned out to be
> plastic
> > baits of some sort. One stomach from an 8-pound brown trout had 14
> > different plastic lures in it, ranging from senkos to tube jigs to
flukes
> to
> > broken pieces of what looked like plastic worm bits.
> >
> > Now - this is what I think is happening. I'm also a bass fisherman, and
I
> > fish in our local Bassmasters club. So, I know how fast bass fisherman
go
> > through soft plastics. At the end of a day's fishing, whether for a
> > tournament or just for fun, the floor of my boat and my friends boats
are
> > littered with soft plastics that are torn and won't stay on hooks
anymore.
> > Most ethical fisherman who care about the environment, the lakes they
> fish,
> > and the fish they're after take those plastics home and dispose of them
> > properly. However, I have personally witnessed countless times,
fisherman
> > tearing off a plastic worm and throwing it into the lake. Maybe
sometimes
> > the plastics blow out of the bass boats as they tear across the lake at
> > 70mph. No matter how these plastics are getting into the lake, I have
now
> > seen first hand that trout WILL eat them. Not only do they eat them as
> they
> > gently sway and sink to the bottom of an 80-foot deep lake, in my
opinion
> > they are also being picked up after they've reached the bottom. Brown
> trout
> > will forage the bottom of lakes, and in the winter under the ice will do
> so
> > in very shallow water even. Since seeing the plastics in the stomachs,
> I've
> > spoken to more and more trout fisherman and I'm finding this is a much
too
> > common occurence - alot of the trout fisherman are getting brown trout
> with
> > plastics in their stomachs in January, February, and March.
> >
> > Anyone who is familiar with Vermont knows that our bass fishing season
> ends
> > in November, and that from December to mid-April our lakes are buried
> under
> > 2 to 3 feet of ice, so these plastics being eating by brown trout are
not
> > fresh. It could also be that the plastics were picked up by the trout
in
> > the previous summer and fall, and haven't been digested or passed. This
> > worries me even more since I don't know what the full impact of bass
> > fisherman tossing their used plastics into the lake could be on the
brown
> > trout.
> >
> > So - to answer your question - YES trout WILL soft plastic baits, and
> > rigging that way for them is likely a hot technique in certain
situations
> to
> > take them.
> >
> > But more importantly to the bass fisherman (and all plastic bait users)
is
> > DO NOT throw your used plastics in the water. If fish will hit them
when
> > they're on your hook, they certainly will hit them and swallow them when
> > they're not !
> >
> > For work, I will be making a targeted attempt to educate Vermont anglers
> on
> > this issue. Please spread the word !
> >
> > Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Greetings from the S.E. Utah desert country.
> > >
> > > Spent a few hours yesterday afternoon in the local mountains at a
> popular
> > > trout lake, Oowah Lake, near my home in Moab, UT. had considerable
> success
> > > in catching 1-3 pound Rainbows on red / white and black / white
spoons,
> > but
> > > my wife discovered something I though was rather odd.
> > >
> > > She rigged up with a small portion of a 6" Senko clone on an old but
> sharp
> > > Aberdeen hook and began getting solid bites. Exposing the hook point
> more
> > > got her five nice trout in about 30 minutes (she doesn't fish a lot)
> > before
> > > a big one broke her line.
> > >
> > > I changed over to an Eagle Claw Tru-Turn and another chunk of the
> plastic
> > > worm and after 7 more fish ( I caught 10 on spoons) caught the biggest
> > 'Bow
> > > of the afternoon, about 17 inches long.
> > >
> > > Ok, does anybody have any ideas about this? I've never heard of
anything
> > > like this ... Trout on Bass lures. I'm gonna have to try it again.
<VBG>
> > >
> > > All comments welcome.
> > >
> > > Budd
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Shawn]

Budd :

You're right about my point. The fact that many of these trout had multiple
plastics in their stomach tells me they either aren't passing them at all,
or are passing them very slowly with much difficultly. So, in the meantime,
while they're working on getting them out, there's not much room for actual
food and nutrition. Obviously this isn't going to happen with every fish
whether it's a bass or trout or something else that swallows a soft plastic
bait. Most likely only eat one or so and that leaves room for other good
food while they work on passing the plastic. Fish do eat a number of nasty
things that can't be digested well such as crayfish claws, pine cones, snail
shells etc etc, but they are eventually passed. So a trout eating ONE or
maybe TWO plastic worms might not be a big deal. A trout that finds the
motherload, or develops a taste for garlic and salt (;-) could be in trouble
in terms of packing it's stomach with undigestable stuff, leaving no room
for actual food.

Regardless of all the "what if's", I still think it's something anglers need
to be conscious of, and take care not to just haphazardly throw used soft
plastics into lakes.

Shawn




"Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
...
> I think Shawn's point is that the plastics might cause the fish to not
have
> stomach room for normal food and starve to death because of it. I can see
> where it is possible and I'm not even a tree hugger.
>
> Budd
>
> "John" > wrote in message
> ...
> > So what?
> > Is there any thing special with these items?
> > Is there any demonstrated harm?
> > Fish have eaten all sort of mankind's refuse in water bodies for
> centuries,
> > so what?
> > Maybe the plastics have been eaten and passed and eaten and passed time
> and
> > time again, if so is this a big problem?
> > The plastics came from stomachs of live fish that were eaten by humans,
> > right?
> > Are the plastics only found in 2-8 pound brown trout?
> > Are they only found in Vermont's 2,200 acre lake?
> >
> > Your post raises lots of questions. If this is a "NEW" event occurring
in
> > multiple states in multiple water bodies with multiple species there may
> be
> > a big problem causing loss of fish life or health and forecasting
fishery
> > declines. If these plastics are just starting to be accumulating in fish
> > stomachs, it could forecast issues in years ahead.
> >
> > Has anyone heard of this quantity happening elsewhere?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > --
> > Remove FLY to reply
> > "Shawn" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Budd :
> > >
> > > I'm a fisheries biologist with the State of Vermont's Fish & Wildlife
> > > Department. Last fall and early this spring I received a number of
> calls
> > > about large brown trout (that we stock in a nearby 2,200-acre lake)
> having
> > > very strange grubs or insect larvae in their stomach. Of course,
> without
> > > seeing the stomach contents, I couldn't comment on what the trout
might
> > have
> > > been eating, but I told the anglers to keep the stomachs next time
they
> > > found such things when cleaning their fish. Over the winter
ice-fishing
> > > season, and through this spring, several anglers brought stomachs from
> > brown
> > > trout ranging from 2 to 10 pounds into the local baitshop. The owner
of
> > the
> > > shop put the stomachs in the freezer, then called me one day this
spring
> > > when he had 8 or 10 stomachs in ziplock bags. I told him to thaw them
> out
> > > and I'd be down in an hour or so.
> > >
> > > I brought all my insect guides, minnow guides etc etc - anything I
> thought
> > > might help me identify the strange prey these brown trout were eating.
> > But,
> > > when I got to the baitshop and picked up the first "grub", I started
to
> > > laugh. When I told the baitshop owner it was a "senko", he
immediately
> > > realized I was right and turned red, embarrassed he didn't realize it
> > > himself right away. Anyways, out of the 10 stomachs I examined that
day
> > > with the strange "grubs" in them, every one of them turned out to be
> > plastic
> > > baits of some sort. One stomach from an 8-pound brown trout had 14
> > > different plastic lures in it, ranging from senkos to tube jigs to
> flukes
> > to
> > > broken pieces of what looked like plastic worm bits.
> > >
> > > Now - this is what I think is happening. I'm also a bass fisherman,
and
> I
> > > fish in our local Bassmasters club. So, I know how fast bass
fisherman
> go
> > > through soft plastics. At the end of a day's fishing, whether for a
> > > tournament or just for fun, the floor of my boat and my friends boats
> are
> > > littered with soft plastics that are torn and won't stay on hooks
> anymore.
> > > Most ethical fisherman who care about the environment, the lakes they
> > fish,
> > > and the fish they're after take those plastics home and dispose of
them
> > > properly. However, I have personally witnessed countless times,
> fisherman
> > > tearing off a plastic worm and throwing it into the lake. Maybe
> sometimes
> > > the plastics blow out of the bass boats as they tear across the lake
at
> > > 70mph. No matter how these plastics are getting into the lake, I have
> now
> > > seen first hand that trout WILL eat them. Not only do they eat them
as
> > they
> > > gently sway and sink to the bottom of an 80-foot deep lake, in my
> opinion
> > > they are also being picked up after they've reached the bottom. Brown
> > trout
> > > will forage the bottom of lakes, and in the winter under the ice will
do
> > so
> > > in very shallow water even. Since seeing the plastics in the
stomachs,
> > I've
> > > spoken to more and more trout fisherman and I'm finding this is a much
> too
> > > common occurence - alot of the trout fisherman are getting brown trout
> > with
> > > plastics in their stomachs in January, February, and March.
> > >
> > > Anyone who is familiar with Vermont knows that our bass fishing season
> > ends
> > > in November, and that from December to mid-April our lakes are buried
> > under
> > > 2 to 3 feet of ice, so these plastics being eating by brown trout are
> not
> > > fresh. It could also be that the plastics were picked up by the trout
> in
> > > the previous summer and fall, and haven't been digested or passed.
This
> > > worries me even more since I don't know what the full impact of bass
> > > fisherman tossing their used plastics into the lake could be on the
> brown
> > > trout.
> > >
> > > So - to answer your question - YES trout WILL soft plastic baits, and
> > > rigging that way for them is likely a hot technique in certain
> situations
> > to
> > > take them.
> > >
> > > But more importantly to the bass fisherman (and all plastic bait
users)
> is
> > > DO NOT throw your used plastics in the water. If fish will hit them
> when
> > > they're on your hook, they certainly will hit them and swallow them
when
> > > they're not !
> > >
> > > For work, I will be making a targeted attempt to educate Vermont
anglers
> > on
> > > this issue. Please spread the word !
> > >
> > > Shawn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Greetings from the S.E. Utah desert country.
> > > >
> > > > Spent a few hours yesterday afternoon in the local mountains at a
> > popular
> > > > trout lake, Oowah Lake, near my home in Moab, UT. had considerable
> > success
> > > > in catching 1-3 pound Rainbows on red / white and black / white
> spoons,
> > > but
> > > > my wife discovered something I though was rather odd.
> > > >
> > > > She rigged up with a small portion of a 6" Senko clone on an old but
> > sharp
> > > > Aberdeen hook and began getting solid bites. Exposing the hook point
> > more
> > > > got her five nice trout in about 30 minutes (she doesn't fish a lot)
> > > before
> > > > a big one broke her line.
> > > >
> > > > I changed over to an Eagle Claw Tru-Turn and another chunk of the
> > plastic
> > > > worm and after 7 more fish ( I caught 10 on spoons) caught the
biggest
> > > 'Bow
> > > > of the afternoon, about 17 inches long.
> > > >
> > > > Ok, does anybody have any ideas about this? I've never heard of
> anything
> > > > like this ... Trout on Bass lures. I'm gonna have to try it again.
> <VBG>
> > > >
> > > > All comments welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Budd
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Shawn]

Read your article Ronnie - it's a good message and one that should get out
there more often. I hope it doesn't take each angler to find a skinny fish
full of plastic to stop throwing them out like that. I have to admit that
years ago I used to do the same thing.


"RGarri7470" > wrote in message
...
> Reminds me of the story and picture I posted ast November of a bass with
19
> plastic worms in its stomach
>
> http://fishing.about.com/cs/fishfactsinfo/a/aa110303a.htm
> Ronnie
>
> http://fishing.about.com

[Rodney]

Shawn wrote:

> Budd :
>
> You're right about my point. The fact that many of these trout had multiple
> plastics in their stomach tells me they either aren't passing them at all,
> or are passing them very slowly with much difficultly.

There is a company bringing out a digestible soft baits this year

ANother thing which will actually kill the fish when swallowed is the
salt impregnated plastics, they swell to ten times their size, if you
don't believe that , just take one and put it in a jar full of water for
a couple of weeks
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Shawn wrote:

> Budd :
>
> You're right about my point. The fact that many of these trout had multiple
> plastics in their stomach tells me they either aren't passing them at all,
> or are passing them very slowly with much difficultly.

There is a company bringing out a digestible soft baits this year

ANother thing which will actually kill the fish when swallowed is the
salt impregnated plastics, they swell to ten times their size, if you
don't believe that , just take one and put it in a jar full of water for
a couple of weeks
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[go-bassn]

Hi Shawn, thanks for contributing here; Any idea why something as soft &
rounded like a soft plastic grub, worm, etc would not simply pass through a
fish's digestive tract? I find it hard to believe that a trout could digest
a bony crawfish & not have a plastic grub slide right through.

Warren

"Shawn" <non@non> wrote in message
...
> Budd :
>
> You're right about my point. The fact that many of these trout had
multiple
> plastics in their stomach tells me they either aren't passing them at all,
> or are passing them very slowly with much difficultly. So, in the
meantime,
> while they're working on getting them out, there's not much room for
actual
> food and nutrition. Obviously this isn't going to happen with every fish
> whether it's a bass or trout or something else that swallows a soft
plastic
> bait. Most likely only eat one or so and that leaves room for other good
> food while they work on passing the plastic. Fish do eat a number of
nasty
> things that can't be digested well such as crayfish claws, pine cones,
snail
> shells etc etc, but they are eventually passed. So a trout eating ONE or
> maybe TWO plastic worms might not be a big deal. A trout that finds the
> motherload, or develops a taste for garlic and salt (;-) could be in
trouble
> in terms of packing it's stomach with undigestable stuff, leaving no room
> for actual food.
>
> Regardless of all the "what if's", I still think it's something anglers
need
> to be conscious of, and take care not to just haphazardly throw used soft
> plastics into lakes.
>
> Shawn
>
>
>
>
> "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I think Shawn's point is that the plastics might cause the fish to not
> have
> > stomach room for normal food and starve to death because of it. I can
see
> > where it is possible and I'm not even a tree hugger.
> >
> > Budd
> >
> > "John" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > So what?
> > > Is there any thing special with these items?
> > > Is there any demonstrated harm?
> > > Fish have eaten all sort of mankind's refuse in water bodies for
> > centuries,
> > > so what?
> > > Maybe the plastics have been eaten and passed and eaten and passed
time
> > and
> > > time again, if so is this a big problem?
> > > The plastics came from stomachs of live fish that were eaten by
humans,
> > > right?
> > > Are the plastics only found in 2-8 pound brown trout?
> > > Are they only found in Vermont's 2,200 acre lake?
> > >
> > > Your post raises lots of questions. If this is a "NEW" event
occurring
> in
> > > multiple states in multiple water bodies with multiple species there
may
> > be
> > > a big problem causing loss of fish life or health and forecasting
> fishery
> > > declines. If these plastics are just starting to be accumulating in
fish
> > > stomachs, it could forecast issues in years ahead.
> > >
> > > Has anyone heard of this quantity happening elsewhere?
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Remove FLY to reply
> > > "Shawn" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Budd :
> > > >
> > > > I'm a fisheries biologist with the State of Vermont's Fish &
Wildlife
> > > > Department. Last fall and early this spring I received a number of
> > calls
> > > > about large brown trout (that we stock in a nearby 2,200-acre lake)
> > having
> > > > very strange grubs or insect larvae in their stomach. Of course,
> > without
> > > > seeing the stomach contents, I couldn't comment on what the trout
> might
> > > have
> > > > been eating, but I told the anglers to keep the stomachs next time
> they
> > > > found such things when cleaning their fish. Over the winter
> ice-fishing
> > > > season, and through this spring, several anglers brought stomachs
from
> > > brown
> > > > trout ranging from 2 to 10 pounds into the local baitshop. The
owner
> of
> > > the
> > > > shop put the stomachs in the freezer, then called me one day this
> spring
> > > > when he had 8 or 10 stomachs in ziplock bags. I told him to thaw
them
> > out
> > > > and I'd be down in an hour or so.
> > > >
> > > > I brought all my insect guides, minnow guides etc etc - anything I
> > thought
> > > > might help me identify the strange prey these brown trout were
eating.
> > > But,
> > > > when I got to the baitshop and picked up the first "grub", I started
> to
> > > > laugh. When I told the baitshop owner it was a "senko", he
> immediately
> > > > realized I was right and turned red, embarrassed he didn't realize
it
> > > > himself right away. Anyways, out of the 10 stomachs I examined that
> day
> > > > with the strange "grubs" in them, every one of them turned out to be
> > > plastic
> > > > baits of some sort. One stomach from an 8-pound brown trout had 14
> > > > different plastic lures in it, ranging from senkos to tube jigs to
> > flukes
> > > to
> > > > broken pieces of what looked like plastic worm bits.
> > > >
> > > > Now - this is what I think is happening. I'm also a bass fisherman,
> and
> > I
> > > > fish in our local Bassmasters club. So, I know how fast bass
> fisherman
> > go
> > > > through soft plastics. At the end of a day's fishing, whether for a
> > > > tournament or just for fun, the floor of my boat and my friends
boats
> > are
> > > > littered with soft plastics that are torn and won't stay on hooks
> > anymore.
> > > > Most ethical fisherman who care about the environment, the lakes
they
> > > fish,
> > > > and the fish they're after take those plastics home and dispose of
> them
> > > > properly. However, I have personally witnessed countless times,
> > fisherman
> > > > tearing off a plastic worm and throwing it into the lake. Maybe
> > sometimes
> > > > the plastics blow out of the bass boats as they tear across the lake
> at
> > > > 70mph. No matter how these plastics are getting into the lake, I
have
> > now
> > > > seen first hand that trout WILL eat them. Not only do they eat them
> as
> > > they
> > > > gently sway and sink to the bottom of an 80-foot deep lake, in my
> > opinion
> > > > they are also being picked up after they've reached the bottom.
Brown
> > > trout
> > > > will forage the bottom of lakes, and in the winter under the ice
will
> do
> > > so
> > > > in very shallow water even. Since seeing the plastics in the
> stomachs,
> > > I've
> > > > spoken to more and more trout fisherman and I'm finding this is a
much
> > too
> > > > common occurence - alot of the trout fisherman are getting brown
trout
> > > with
> > > > plastics in their stomachs in January, February, and March.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone who is familiar with Vermont knows that our bass fishing
season
> > > ends
> > > > in November, and that from December to mid-April our lakes are
buried
> > > under
> > > > 2 to 3 feet of ice, so these plastics being eating by brown trout
are
> > not
> > > > fresh. It could also be that the plastics were picked up by the
trout
> > in
> > > > the previous summer and fall, and haven't been digested or passed.
> This
> > > > worries me even more since I don't know what the full impact of bass
> > > > fisherman tossing their used plastics into the lake could be on the
> > brown
> > > > trout.
> > > >
> > > > So - to answer your question - YES trout WILL soft plastic baits,
and
> > > > rigging that way for them is likely a hot technique in certain
> > situations
> > > to
> > > > take them.
> > > >
> > > > But more importantly to the bass fisherman (and all plastic bait
> users)
> > is
> > > > DO NOT throw your used plastics in the water. If fish will hit them
> > when
> > > > they're on your hook, they certainly will hit them and swallow them
> when
> > > > they're not !
> > > >
> > > > For work, I will be making a targeted attempt to educate Vermont
> anglers
> > > on
> > > > this issue. Please spread the word !
> > > >
> > > > Shawn
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Greetings from the S.E. Utah desert country.
> > > > >
> > > > > Spent a few hours yesterday afternoon in the local mountains at a
> > > popular
> > > > > trout lake, Oowah Lake, near my home in Moab, UT. had considerable
> > > success
> > > > > in catching 1-3 pound Rainbows on red / white and black / white
> > spoons,
> > > > but
> > > > > my wife discovered something I though was rather odd.
> > > > >
> > > > > She rigged up with a small portion of a 6" Senko clone on an old
but
> > > sharp
> > > > > Aberdeen hook and began getting solid bites. Exposing the hook
point
> > > more
> > > > > got her five nice trout in about 30 minutes (she doesn't fish a
lot)
> > > > before
> > > > > a big one broke her line.
> > > > >
> > > > > I changed over to an Eagle Claw Tru-Turn and another chunk of the
> > > plastic
> > > > > worm and after 7 more fish ( I caught 10 on spoons) caught the
> biggest
> > > > 'Bow
> > > > > of the afternoon, about 17 inches long.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, does anybody have any ideas about this? I've never heard of
> > anything
> > > > > like this ... Trout on Bass lures. I'm gonna have to try it again.
> > <VBG>
> > > > >
> > > > > All comments welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Budd
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[go-bassn]

The article says the bass was healthy Shawn...

Warren

"Shawn" <non@non> wrote in message
...
> Read your article Ronnie - it's a good message and one that should get out
> there more often. I hope it doesn't take each angler to find a skinny
fish
> full of plastic to stop throwing them out like that. I have to admit that
> years ago I used to do the same thing.
>
>
> "RGarri7470" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Reminds me of the story and picture I posted ast November of a bass with
> 19
> > plastic worms in its stomach
> >
> > http://fishing.about.com/cs/fishfactsinfo/a/aa110303a.htm
> > Ronnie
> >
> > http://fishing.about.com
>
>

[go-bassn]

The article says the bass was healthy Shawn...

Warren

"Shawn" <non@non> wrote in message
...
> Read your article Ronnie - it's a good message and one that should get out
> there more often. I hope it doesn't take each angler to find a skinny
fish
> full of plastic to stop throwing them out like that. I have to admit that
> years ago I used to do the same thing.
>
>
> "RGarri7470" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Reminds me of the story and picture I posted ast November of a bass with
> 19
> > plastic worms in its stomach
> >
> > http://fishing.about.com/cs/fishfactsinfo/a/aa110303a.htm
> > Ronnie
> >
> > http://fishing.about.com
>
>

[John]

Shawn responded to Budd and sez:

> You're right about my point. The fact that many of these trout had
multiple
> plastics in their stomach tells me they either aren't passing them at all,
> or are passing them very slowly with much difficultly. So, in the
meantime,
> while they're working on getting them out, there's not much room for
actual
> food and nutrition. Obviously this isn't going to happen with every fish
> whether it's a bass or trout or something else that swallows a soft
plastic
> bait. Most likely only eat one or so and that leaves room for other good
> food while they work on passing the plastic. Fish do eat a number of
nasty
> things that can't be digested well such as crayfish claws, pine cones,
snail
> shells etc etc, but they are eventually passed. So a trout eating ONE or
> maybe TWO plastic worms might not be a big deal. A trout that finds the
> motherload, or develops a taste for garlic and salt (;-) could be in
trouble
> in terms of packing it's stomach with undigestable stuff, leaving no room
> for actual food.

Again this information does not answer whether all this is a problem, a big
problem, a trout only problem, a Vermont problem. No dead fish were
observed. No skinny or deformed fish were observed. No necropsies were
cited to show that the plastics harmed the trout.

All of this notwitstanding, something IS going on. You and Vermont F&G need
to get answers to these questions quickly and accurately before the national
press, newspapers and hype media start stroking the facts. PETA loonies
could blow this information all out of proportion. Imagine how would they
show your 10 stomach samples on TV to the kids? California will surely use
this information to try to tax or prohibit sales of plastics. Soft stomach
plastics could make lead shot in shotgun shells small in comparison!

> Regardless of all the "what if's", I still think it's something anglers
need
> to be conscious of, and take care not to just haphazardly throw used soft
> plastics into lakes.

You missed my point. It was we have some research to do. Soft stomach
plastics could be a BIG deal if it is happening everywhere. Of course I'm
not in favor of anglers throwing used plastics into lakes - haphazardly or
any other way. But telling them NOT to do it won't solve the problem. I
hope you are not planning on some "Let's not throw plastics in the lakes"
public relations announcement without research. That could be a huge Public
Relations nightmare for all of us!!!

I sure hope you get some answers quickly. Good luck!
John

[John]

Shawn responded to Budd and sez:

> You're right about my point. The fact that many of these trout had
multiple
> plastics in their stomach tells me they either aren't passing them at all,
> or are passing them very slowly with much difficultly. So, in the
meantime,
> while they're working on getting them out, there's not much room for
actual
> food and nutrition. Obviously this isn't going to happen with every fish
> whether it's a bass or trout or something else that swallows a soft
plastic
> bait. Most likely only eat one or so and that leaves room for other good
> food while they work on passing the plastic. Fish do eat a number of
nasty
> things that can't be digested well such as crayfish claws, pine cones,
snail
> shells etc etc, but they are eventually passed. So a trout eating ONE or
> maybe TWO plastic worms might not be a big deal. A trout that finds the
> motherload, or develops a taste for garlic and salt (;-) could be in
trouble
> in terms of packing it's stomach with undigestable stuff, leaving no room
> for actual food.

Again this information does not answer whether all this is a problem, a big
problem, a trout only problem, a Vermont problem. No dead fish were
observed. No skinny or deformed fish were observed. No necropsies were
cited to show that the plastics harmed the trout.

All of this notwitstanding, something IS going on. You and Vermont F&G need
to get answers to these questions quickly and accurately before the national
press, newspapers and hype media start stroking the facts. PETA loonies
could blow this information all out of proportion. Imagine how would they
show your 10 stomach samples on TV to the kids? California will surely use
this information to try to tax or prohibit sales of plastics. Soft stomach
plastics could make lead shot in shotgun shells small in comparison!

> Regardless of all the "what if's", I still think it's something anglers
need
> to be conscious of, and take care not to just haphazardly throw used soft
> plastics into lakes.

You missed my point. It was we have some research to do. Soft stomach
plastics could be a BIG deal if it is happening everywhere. Of course I'm
not in favor of anglers throwing used plastics into lakes - haphazardly or
any other way. But telling them NOT to do it won't solve the problem. I
hope you are not planning on some "Let's not throw plastics in the lakes"
public relations announcement without research. That could be a huge Public
Relations nightmare for all of us!!!

I sure hope you get some answers quickly. Good luck!
John

[Shawn]

Warren - actually, there were 2 fish mentioned in Ronnie's article. The one
with 19 plastic worms and lizards (plus hooks) in it was otherwise healthy.
That fish was not caught by Ronnie, but by someone else who took the fish to
a taxidermist. Further along in the article however, Ronnie then says he
himself caught a bass once in Lake Martin that was skinny and in poor
health. This fish had 4 plastic worms in it's stomach, and was starving to
death. This incident was what made Ronnie finally stop throwing his
plastics into the lake.

Shawn


"go-bassn" > wrote in message
...
> The article says the bass was healthy Shawn...
>
> Warren
>
> "Shawn" <non@non> wrote in message
> ...
> > Read your article Ronnie - it's a good message and one that should get
out
> > there more often. I hope it doesn't take each angler to find a skinny
> fish
> > full of plastic to stop throwing them out like that. I have to admit
that
> > years ago I used to do the same thing.
> >
> >
> > "RGarri7470" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Reminds me of the story and picture I posted ast November of a bass
with
> > 19
> > > plastic worms in its stomach
> > >
> > > http://fishing.about.com/cs/fishfactsinfo/a/aa110303a.htm
> > > Ronnie
> > >
> > > http://fishing.about.com
> >
> >
>
>

[Shawn]

Warren - actually, there were 2 fish mentioned in Ronnie's article. The one
with 19 plastic worms and lizards (plus hooks) in it was otherwise healthy.
That fish was not caught by Ronnie, but by someone else who took the fish to
a taxidermist. Further along in the article however, Ronnie then says he
himself caught a bass once in Lake Martin that was skinny and in poor
health. This fish had 4 plastic worms in it's stomach, and was starving to
death. This incident was what made Ronnie finally stop throwing his
plastics into the lake.

Shawn


"go-bassn" > wrote in message
...
> The article says the bass was healthy Shawn...
>
> Warren
>
> "Shawn" <non@non> wrote in message
> ...
> > Read your article Ronnie - it's a good message and one that should get
out
> > there more often. I hope it doesn't take each angler to find a skinny
> fish
> > full of plastic to stop throwing them out like that. I have to admit
that
> > years ago I used to do the same thing.
> >
> >
> > "RGarri7470" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Reminds me of the story and picture I posted ast November of a bass
with
> > 19
> > > plastic worms in its stomach
> > >
> > > http://fishing.about.com/cs/fishfactsinfo/a/aa110303a.htm
> > > Ronnie
> > >
> > > http://fishing.about.com
> >
> >
>
>

[Shawn]

Warren :

I think prt of it could be what somebody else here has already commented on.
Salt-impregnated soft plastic baits swell over time in water, which probably
would make it harder to pass. Not impossible however, and I'm sure this is
occurring more often than we think and for the most part the baits ARE
eventually getting passed. But if and when a fish eats numerous baits
within a short time period trying to pass all of these as they swell, roll,
and tangle inside the fish's stomach ..... well, it could be a problem.

I'm not in the position to speak with any great deal of authority on this,
as I haven't studied it. I'm just speculating about impacts, and mainly
wanted to report to the group on this interesting observation in Vermont.

But the guy named "John" who has responded a couple times so far seems to
think it's the new "lead shot" issue in aquatics. I personally don't think
it's even close to warranting that level of alarm. If waves of fish start
washing up on lakes around Vermont and the rest of the country stuffed to
the gills with soft plastics, then we should be worrying.

But for now, I think a nice, targeting PSA to the angling community would
suffice. Again, as I said earlier, I think for the most part the angling
community is generally full of well-informed, concerned people who would not
intentionally do anything to harm lakes and rivers and the fish that swim in
them ! However, having said that, some anglers may not realize or take the
time to think about what happens to their used plastics after being tossed
in the lake. I'm sure many people may actually think they just "go away" -
dissolved or breakdown eventually or something - which they don't.

So, just by educating angler groups as to the fate of these baits in the
environment could be a vast improvement and result in a large reduction in
the amount of plastics thrown overboard.

Shawn



"go-bassn" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Shawn, thanks for contributing here; Any idea why something as soft &
> rounded like a soft plastic grub, worm, etc would not simply pass through
a
> fish's digestive tract? I find it hard to believe that a trout could
digest
> a bony crawfish & not have a plastic grub slide right through.
>
> Warren
>
> "Shawn" <non@non> wrote in message
> ...
> > Budd :
> >
> > You're right about my point. The fact that many of these trout had
> multiple
> > plastics in their stomach tells me they either aren't passing them at
all,
> > or are passing them very slowly with much difficultly. So, in the
> meantime,
> > while they're working on getting them out, there's not much room for
> actual
> > food and nutrition. Obviously this isn't going to happen with every
fish
> > whether it's a bass or trout or something else that swallows a soft
> plastic
> > bait. Most likely only eat one or so and that leaves room for other
good
> > food while they work on passing the plastic. Fish do eat a number of
> nasty
> > things that can't be digested well such as crayfish claws, pine cones,
> snail
> > shells etc etc, but they are eventually passed. So a trout eating ONE
or
> > maybe TWO plastic worms might not be a big deal. A trout that finds the
> > motherload, or develops a taste for garlic and salt (;-) could be in
> trouble
> > in terms of packing it's stomach with undigestable stuff, leaving no
room
> > for actual food.
> >
> > Regardless of all the "what if's", I still think it's something anglers
> need
> > to be conscious of, and take care not to just haphazardly throw used
soft
> > plastics into lakes.
> >
> > Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I think Shawn's point is that the plastics might cause the fish to not
> > have
> > > stomach room for normal food and starve to death because of it. I can
> see
> > > where it is possible and I'm not even a tree hugger.
> > >
> > > Budd
> > >
> > > "John" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > So what?
> > > > Is there any thing special with these items?
> > > > Is there any demonstrated harm?
> > > > Fish have eaten all sort of mankind's refuse in water bodies for
> > > centuries,
> > > > so what?
> > > > Maybe the plastics have been eaten and passed and eaten and passed
> time
> > > and
> > > > time again, if so is this a big problem?
> > > > The plastics came from stomachs of live fish that were eaten by
> humans,
> > > > right?
> > > > Are the plastics only found in 2-8 pound brown trout?
> > > > Are they only found in Vermont's 2,200 acre lake?
> > > >
> > > > Your post raises lots of questions. If this is a "NEW" event
> occurring
> > in
> > > > multiple states in multiple water bodies with multiple species there
> may
> > > be
> > > > a big problem causing loss of fish life or health and forecasting
> > fishery
> > > > declines. If these plastics are just starting to be accumulating in
> fish
> > > > stomachs, it could forecast issues in years ahead.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone heard of this quantity happening elsewhere?
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Remove FLY to reply
> > > > "Shawn" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Budd :
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm a fisheries biologist with the State of Vermont's Fish &
> Wildlife
> > > > > Department. Last fall and early this spring I received a number
of
> > > calls
> > > > > about large brown trout (that we stock in a nearby 2,200-acre
lake)
> > > having
> > > > > very strange grubs or insect larvae in their stomach. Of course,
> > > without
> > > > > seeing the stomach contents, I couldn't comment on what the trout
> > might
> > > > have
> > > > > been eating, but I told the anglers to keep the stomachs next time
> > they
> > > > > found such things when cleaning their fish. Over the winter
> > ice-fishing
> > > > > season, and through this spring, several anglers brought stomachs
> from
> > > > brown
> > > > > trout ranging from 2 to 10 pounds into the local baitshop. The
> owner
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > shop put the stomachs in the freezer, then called me one day this
> > spring
> > > > > when he had 8 or 10 stomachs in ziplock bags. I told him to thaw
> them
> > > out
> > > > > and I'd be down in an hour or so.
> > > > >
> > > > > I brought all my insect guides, minnow guides etc etc - anything I
> > > thought
> > > > > might help me identify the strange prey these brown trout were
> eating.
> > > > But,
> > > > > when I got to the baitshop and picked up the first "grub", I
started
> > to
> > > > > laugh. When I told the baitshop owner it was a "senko", he
> > immediately
> > > > > realized I was right and turned red, embarrassed he didn't realize
> it
> > > > > himself right away. Anyways, out of the 10 stomachs I examined
that
> > day
> > > > > with the strange "grubs" in them, every one of them turned out to
be
> > > > plastic
> > > > > baits of some sort. One stomach from an 8-pound brown trout had
14
> > > > > different plastic lures in it, ranging from senkos to tube jigs to
> > > flukes
> > > > to
> > > > > broken pieces of what looked like plastic worm bits.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now - this is what I think is happening. I'm also a bass
fisherman,
> > and
> > > I
> > > > > fish in our local Bassmasters club. So, I know how fast bass
> > fisherman
> > > go
> > > > > through soft plastics. At the end of a day's fishing, whether for
a
> > > > > tournament or just for fun, the floor of my boat and my friends
> boats
> > > are
> > > > > littered with soft plastics that are torn and won't stay on hooks
> > > anymore.
> > > > > Most ethical fisherman who care about the environment, the lakes
> they
> > > > fish,
> > > > > and the fish they're after take those plastics home and dispose of
> > them
> > > > > properly. However, I have personally witnessed countless times,
> > > fisherman
> > > > > tearing off a plastic worm and throwing it into the lake. Maybe
> > > sometimes
> > > > > the plastics blow out of the bass boats as they tear across the
lake
> > at
> > > > > 70mph. No matter how these plastics are getting into the lake, I
> have
> > > now
> > > > > seen first hand that trout WILL eat them. Not only do they eat
them
> > as
> > > > they
> > > > > gently sway and sink to the bottom of an 80-foot deep lake, in my
> > > opinion
> > > > > they are also being picked up after they've reached the bottom.
> Brown
> > > > trout
> > > > > will forage the bottom of lakes, and in the winter under the ice
> will
> > do
> > > > so
> > > > > in very shallow water even. Since seeing the plastics in the
> > stomachs,
> > > > I've
> > > > > spoken to more and more trout fisherman and I'm finding this is a
> much
> > > too
> > > > > common occurence - alot of the trout fisherman are getting brown
> trout
> > > > with
> > > > > plastics in their stomachs in January, February, and March.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone who is familiar with Vermont knows that our bass fishing
> season
> > > > ends
> > > > > in November, and that from December to mid-April our lakes are
> buried
> > > > under
> > > > > 2 to 3 feet of ice, so these plastics being eating by brown trout
> are
> > > not
> > > > > fresh. It could also be that the plastics were picked up by the
> trout
> > > in
> > > > > the previous summer and fall, and haven't been digested or passed.
> > This
> > > > > worries me even more since I don't know what the full impact of
bass
> > > > > fisherman tossing their used plastics into the lake could be on
the
> > > brown
> > > > > trout.
> > > > >
> > > > > So - to answer your question - YES trout WILL soft plastic baits,
> and
> > > > > rigging that way for them is likely a hot technique in certain
> > > situations
> > > > to
> > > > > take them.
> > > > >
> > > > > But more importantly to the bass fisherman (and all plastic bait
> > users)
> > > is
> > > > > DO NOT throw your used plastics in the water. If fish will hit
them
> > > when
> > > > > they're on your hook, they certainly will hit them and swallow
them
> > when
> > > > > they're not !
> > > > >
> > > > > For work, I will be making a targeted attempt to educate Vermont
> > anglers
> > > > on
> > > > > this issue. Please spread the word !
> > > > >
> > > > > Shawn
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Greetings from the S.E. Utah desert country.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spent a few hours yesterday afternoon in the local mountains at
a
> > > > popular
> > > > > > trout lake, Oowah Lake, near my home in Moab, UT. had
considerable
> > > > success
> > > > > > in catching 1-3 pound Rainbows on red / white and black / white
> > > spoons,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > my wife discovered something I though was rather odd.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > She rigged up with a small portion of a 6" Senko clone on an old
> but
> > > > sharp
> > > > > > Aberdeen hook and began getting solid bites. Exposing the hook
> point
> > > > more
> > > > > > got her five nice trout in about 30 minutes (she doesn't fish a
> lot)
> > > > > before
> > > > > > a big one broke her line.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I changed over to an Eagle Claw Tru-Turn and another chunk of
the
> > > > plastic
> > > > > > worm and after 7 more fish ( I caught 10 on spoons) caught the
> > biggest
> > > > > 'Bow
> > > > > > of the afternoon, about 17 inches long.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, does anybody have any ideas about this? I've never heard of
> > > anything
> > > > > > like this ... Trout on Bass lures. I'm gonna have to try it
again.
> > > <VBG>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All comments welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Budd
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Shawn]

Warren :

I think prt of it could be what somebody else here has already commented on.
Salt-impregnated soft plastic baits swell over time in water, which probably
would make it harder to pass. Not impossible however, and I'm sure this is
occurring more often than we think and for the most part the baits ARE
eventually getting passed. But if and when a fish eats numerous baits
within a short time period trying to pass all of these as they swell, roll,
and tangle inside the fish's stomach ..... well, it could be a problem.

I'm not in the position to speak with any great deal of authority on this,
as I haven't studied it. I'm just speculating about impacts, and mainly
wanted to report to the group on this interesting observation in Vermont.

But the guy named "John" who has responded a couple times so far seems to
think it's the new "lead shot" issue in aquatics. I personally don't think
it's even close to warranting that level of alarm. If waves of fish start
washing up on lakes around Vermont and the rest of the country stuffed to
the gills with soft plastics, then we should be worrying.

But for now, I think a nice, targeting PSA to the angling community would
suffice. Again, as I said earlier, I think for the most part the angling
community is generally full of well-informed, concerned people who would not
intentionally do anything to harm lakes and rivers and the fish that swim in
them ! However, having said that, some anglers may not realize or take the
time to think about what happens to their used plastics after being tossed
in the lake. I'm sure many people may actually think they just "go away" -
dissolved or breakdown eventually or something - which they don't.

So, just by educating angler groups as to the fate of these baits in the
environment could be a vast improvement and result in a large reduction in
the amount of plastics thrown overboard.

Shawn



"go-bassn" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Shawn, thanks for contributing here; Any idea why something as soft &
> rounded like a soft plastic grub, worm, etc would not simply pass through
a
> fish's digestive tract? I find it hard to believe that a trout could
digest
> a bony crawfish & not have a plastic grub slide right through.
>
> Warren
>
> "Shawn" <non@non> wrote in message
> ...
> > Budd :
> >
> > You're right about my point. The fact that many of these trout had
> multiple
> > plastics in their stomach tells me they either aren't passing them at
all,
> > or are passing them very slowly with much difficultly. So, in the
> meantime,
> > while they're working on getting them out, there's not much room for
> actual
> > food and nutrition. Obviously this isn't going to happen with every
fish
> > whether it's a bass or trout or something else that swallows a soft
> plastic
> > bait. Most likely only eat one or so and that leaves room for other
good
> > food while they work on passing the plastic. Fish do eat a number of
> nasty
> > things that can't be digested well such as crayfish claws, pine cones,
> snail
> > shells etc etc, but they are eventually passed. So a trout eating ONE
or
> > maybe TWO plastic worms might not be a big deal. A trout that finds the
> > motherload, or develops a taste for garlic and salt (;-) could be in
> trouble
> > in terms of packing it's stomach with undigestable stuff, leaving no
room
> > for actual food.
> >
> > Regardless of all the "what if's", I still think it's something anglers
> need
> > to be conscious of, and take care not to just haphazardly throw used
soft
> > plastics into lakes.
> >
> > Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I think Shawn's point is that the plastics might cause the fish to not
> > have
> > > stomach room for normal food and starve to death because of it. I can
> see
> > > where it is possible and I'm not even a tree hugger.
> > >
> > > Budd
> > >
> > > "John" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > So what?
> > > > Is there any thing special with these items?
> > > > Is there any demonstrated harm?
> > > > Fish have eaten all sort of mankind's refuse in water bodies for
> > > centuries,
> > > > so what?
> > > > Maybe the plastics have been eaten and passed and eaten and passed
> time
> > > and
> > > > time again, if so is this a big problem?
> > > > The plastics came from stomachs of live fish that were eaten by
> humans,
> > > > right?
> > > > Are the plastics only found in 2-8 pound brown trout?
> > > > Are they only found in Vermont's 2,200 acre lake?
> > > >
> > > > Your post raises lots of questions. If this is a "NEW" event
> occurring
> > in
> > > > multiple states in multiple water bodies with multiple species there
> may
> > > be
> > > > a big problem causing loss of fish life or health and forecasting
> > fishery
> > > > declines. If these plastics are just starting to be accumulating in
> fish
> > > > stomachs, it could forecast issues in years ahead.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone heard of this quantity happening elsewhere?
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Remove FLY to reply
> > > > "Shawn" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Budd :
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm a fisheries biologist with the State of Vermont's Fish &
> Wildlife
> > > > > Department. Last fall and early this spring I received a number
of
> > > calls
> > > > > about large brown trout (that we stock in a nearby 2,200-acre
lake)
> > > having
> > > > > very strange grubs or insect larvae in their stomach. Of course,
> > > without
> > > > > seeing the stomach contents, I couldn't comment on what the trout
> > might
> > > > have
> > > > > been eating, but I told the anglers to keep the stomachs next time
> > they
> > > > > found such things when cleaning their fish. Over the winter
> > ice-fishing
> > > > > season, and through this spring, several anglers brought stomachs
> from
> > > > brown
> > > > > trout ranging from 2 to 10 pounds into the local baitshop. The
> owner
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > shop put the stomachs in the freezer, then called me one day this
> > spring
> > > > > when he had 8 or 10 stomachs in ziplock bags. I told him to thaw
> them
> > > out
> > > > > and I'd be down in an hour or so.
> > > > >
> > > > > I brought all my insect guides, minnow guides etc etc - anything I
> > > thought
> > > > > might help me identify the strange prey these brown trout were
> eating.
> > > > But,
> > > > > when I got to the baitshop and picked up the first "grub", I
started
> > to
> > > > > laugh. When I told the baitshop owner it was a "senko", he
> > immediately
> > > > > realized I was right and turned red, embarrassed he didn't realize
> it
> > > > > himself right away. Anyways, out of the 10 stomachs I examined
that
> > day
> > > > > with the strange "grubs" in them, every one of them turned out to
be
> > > > plastic
> > > > > baits of some sort. One stomach from an 8-pound brown trout had
14
> > > > > different plastic lures in it, ranging from senkos to tube jigs to
> > > flukes
> > > > to
> > > > > broken pieces of what looked like plastic worm bits.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now - this is what I think is happening. I'm also a bass
fisherman,
> > and
> > > I
> > > > > fish in our local Bassmasters club. So, I know how fast bass
> > fisherman
> > > go
> > > > > through soft plastics. At the end of a day's fishing, whether for
a
> > > > > tournament or just for fun, the floor of my boat and my friends
> boats
> > > are
> > > > > littered with soft plastics that are torn and won't stay on hooks
> > > anymore.
> > > > > Most ethical fisherman who care about the environment, the lakes
> they
> > > > fish,
> > > > > and the fish they're after take those plastics home and dispose of
> > them
> > > > > properly. However, I have personally witnessed countless times,
> > > fisherman
> > > > > tearing off a plastic worm and throwing it into the lake. Maybe
> > > sometimes
> > > > > the plastics blow out of the bass boats as they tear across the
lake
> > at
> > > > > 70mph. No matter how these plastics are getting into the lake, I
> have
> > > now
> > > > > seen first hand that trout WILL eat them. Not only do they eat
them
> > as
> > > > they
> > > > > gently sway and sink to the bottom of an 80-foot deep lake, in my
> > > opinion
> > > > > they are also being picked up after they've reached the bottom.
> Brown
> > > > trout
> > > > > will forage the bottom of lakes, and in the winter under the ice
> will
> > do
> > > > so
> > > > > in very shallow water even. Since seeing the plastics in the
> > stomachs,
> > > > I've
> > > > > spoken to more and more trout fisherman and I'm finding this is a
> much
> > > too
> > > > > common occurence - alot of the trout fisherman are getting brown
> trout
> > > > with
> > > > > plastics in their stomachs in January, February, and March.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone who is familiar with Vermont knows that our bass fishing
> season
> > > > ends
> > > > > in November, and that from December to mid-April our lakes are
> buried
> > > > under
> > > > > 2 to 3 feet of ice, so these plastics being eating by brown trout
> are
> > > not
> > > > > fresh. It could also be that the plastics were picked up by the
> trout
> > > in
> > > > > the previous summer and fall, and haven't been digested or passed.
> > This
> > > > > worries me even more since I don't know what the full impact of
bass
> > > > > fisherman tossing their used plastics into the lake could be on
the
> > > brown
> > > > > trout.
> > > > >
> > > > > So - to answer your question - YES trout WILL soft plastic baits,
> and
> > > > > rigging that way for them is likely a hot technique in certain
> > > situations
> > > > to
> > > > > take them.
> > > > >
> > > > > But more importantly to the bass fisherman (and all plastic bait
> > users)
> > > is
> > > > > DO NOT throw your used plastics in the water. If fish will hit
them
> > > when
> > > > > they're on your hook, they certainly will hit them and swallow
them
> > when
> > > > > they're not !
> > > > >
> > > > > For work, I will be making a targeted attempt to educate Vermont
> > anglers
> > > > on
> > > > > this issue. Please spread the word !
> > > > >
> > > > > Shawn
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Budd Cochran" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Greetings from the S.E. Utah desert country.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spent a few hours yesterday afternoon in the local mountains at
a
> > > > popular
> > > > > > trout lake, Oowah Lake, near my home in Moab, UT. had
considerable
> > > > success
> > > > > > in catching 1-3 pound Rainbows on red / white and black / white
> > > spoons,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > my wife discovered something I though was rather odd.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > She rigged up with a small portion of a 6" Senko clone on an old
> but
> > > > sharp
> > > > > > Aberdeen hook and began getting solid bites. Exposing the hook
> point
> > > > more
> > > > > > got her five nice trout in about 30 minutes (she doesn't fish a
> lot)
> > > > > before
> > > > > > a big one broke her line.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I changed over to an Eagle Claw Tru-Turn and another chunk of
the
> > > > plastic
> > > > > > worm and after 7 more fish ( I caught 10 on spoons) caught the
> > biggest
> > > > > 'Bow
> > > > > > of the afternoon, about 17 inches long.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, does anybody have any ideas about this? I've never heard of
> > > anything
> > > > > > like this ... Trout on Bass lures. I'm gonna have to try it
again.
> > > <VBG>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All comments welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Budd
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[RichZ]

Re swelling plastics. Salt impregnated plastics will swell when submerged
long enough to become water saturated. There was a report some time back
that said they would become 12 times their size, but that has been proven
by several tests (including my own) to be a fallacy. It IS possible for
super-heavily salted baits to swell to nearly double their size though.
(the more salt to dissolve, the more they will swell). Even with more than
8 months of immersion in a test tank, I've never had any quite reach twice
their size.

I would offer a hypothesis that this situation (I hesitate to label it a
problem) is more commonly encountered today because there are more anglers
throwing heavily salted baits. First, they break off the hook on the cast,
hookset or during the battle far more often than traditional plastics, and
2nd, they sink. So there are more chunks of plastic "roaming free" in the
fish's habitat now than when most plastics weren't salted or carried far
less salt. Old style plastics didn't end up in the water unless you broke
off or discarded them there. Senkos and their ilk end up there by accident
all the time. Even when traditional (ie floating) plastic baits were lost
or discarded, they would float and eventually end up against or on the
bank, instead of on the bottom. Fewer of them ere eaten.

As far as their appearing in trout stomachs, I would suspect that corn is a
bigger problem. Corn is commonly used ad bait and as chum in waters where
stocked trout are targeted. I've caught rainbows and browns so full of corn
kernels than they were grotesquely bloated, and they apparently can neither
digest nor easily pass it.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[go-bassn]

My apologies Shawn, I didn't read the entire article.

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Shawn" > wrote in message
...
> Warren - actually, there were 2 fish mentioned in Ronnie's article. The
one
> with 19 plastic worms and lizards (plus hooks) in it was otherwise
healthy.
> That fish was not caught by Ronnie, but by someone else who took the fish
to
> a taxidermist. Further along in the article however, Ronnie then says he
> himself caught a bass once in Lake Martin that was skinny and in poor
> health. This fish had 4 plastic worms in it's stomach, and was starving
to
> death. This incident was what made Ronnie finally stop throwing his
> plastics into the lake.
>
> Shawn
>
>
> "go-bassn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The article says the bass was healthy Shawn...
> >
> > Warren
> >
> > "Shawn" <non@non> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Read your article Ronnie - it's a good message and one that should get
> out
> > > there more often. I hope it doesn't take each angler to find a skinny
> > fish
> > > full of plastic to stop throwing them out like that. I have to admit
> that
> > > years ago I used to do the same thing.
> > >
> > >
> > > "RGarri7470" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Reminds me of the story and picture I posted ast November of a bass
> with
> > > 19
> > > > plastic worms in its stomach
> > > >
> > > > http://fishing.about.com/cs/fishfactsinfo/a/aa110303a.htm
> > > > Ronnie
> > > >
> > > > http://fishing.about.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[go-bassn]

My apologies Shawn, I didn't read the entire article.

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Shawn" > wrote in message
...
> Warren - actually, there were 2 fish mentioned in Ronnie's article. The
one
> with 19 plastic worms and lizards (plus hooks) in it was otherwise
healthy.
> That fish was not caught by Ronnie, but by someone else who took the fish
to
> a taxidermist. Further along in the article however, Ronnie then says he
> himself caught a bass once in Lake Martin that was skinny and in poor
> health. This fish had 4 plastic worms in it's stomach, and was starving
to
> death. This incident was what made Ronnie finally stop throwing his
> plastics into the lake.
>
> Shawn
>
>
> "go-bassn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The article says the bass was healthy Shawn...
> >
> > Warren
> >
> > "Shawn" <non@non> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Read your article Ronnie - it's a good message and one that should get
> out
> > > there more often. I hope it doesn't take each angler to find a skinny
> > fish
> > > full of plastic to stop throwing them out like that. I have to admit
> that
> > > years ago I used to do the same thing.
> > >
> > >
> > > "RGarri7470" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Reminds me of the story and picture I posted ast November of a bass
> with
> > > 19
> > > > plastic worms in its stomach
> > > >
> > > > http://fishing.about.com/cs/fishfactsinfo/a/aa110303a.htm
> > > > Ronnie
> > > >
> > > > http://fishing.about.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[go-bassn]

I had a Zoom Lil Critter Craw (a plastic craw that is NOT salt impregnated)
come out of my boat's bilge after God-knows-how-long, and I'd guess it had
swelled to 4x its original size. Who knows what substances it encountered
down there.

It was hideous lol...

Warren

"RichZ" > wrote in message
...
> Re swelling plastics. Salt impregnated plastics will swell when submerged
> long enough to become water saturated. There was a report some time back
> that said they would become 12 times their size, but that has been proven
> by several tests (including my own) to be a fallacy. It IS possible for
> super-heavily salted baits to swell to nearly double their size though.
> (the more salt to dissolve, the more they will swell). Even with more than
> 8 months of immersion in a test tank, I've never had any quite reach twice
> their size.
>
> I would offer a hypothesis that this situation (I hesitate to label it a
> problem) is more commonly encountered today because there are more anglers
> throwing heavily salted baits. First, they break off the hook on the cast,
> hookset or during the battle far more often than traditional plastics, and
> 2nd, they sink. So there are more chunks of plastic "roaming free" in the
> fish's habitat now than when most plastics weren't salted or carried far
> less salt. Old style plastics didn't end up in the water unless you broke
> off or discarded them there. Senkos and their ilk end up there by accident
> all the time. Even when traditional (ie floating) plastic baits were lost
> or discarded, they would float and eventually end up against or on the
> bank, instead of on the bottom. Fewer of them ere eaten.
>
> As far as their appearing in trout stomachs, I would suspect that corn is
a
> bigger problem. Corn is commonly used ad bait and as chum in waters where
> stocked trout are targeted. I've caught rainbows and browns so full of
corn
> kernels than they were grotesquely bloated, and they apparently can
neither
> digest nor easily pass it.
>
> RichZ©
> www.richz.com/fishing
>

[RichZ]

Go-bassn wrote:
> Zoom Lil Critter Craw (a plastic craw that is NOT salt impregnated)
>
If it was a zoom and wasn't a laminated color, it was salt impregnated. Not
to the extent that the yamamoto stuff is, but definitely salty. All zoom's
solid color baits, including the little critter craw, have been for years.

Bilge oil in the mix though, does upset the applecart.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing