Re: Easy Geek question

[Tim J.]

"riverman" > wrote in message
...
> Can anyone recommend a good freeware program for making a constantly-updated
> backup of my system? I just got a 200GB external HD, and would like to
> install a program that keeps track of any changes I make to my internal HD
> and keeps a mirror copy on the external HD, just in case I have another
> total system crash like last year. I also want to backup SWMBOs system on
> the same external drive, if possible, although hers would be backed up
> intermittently (whenever I managed to bring the external HD over to her
> office and update).
>
> Thanks, and, uh....TL.

This is what I use for certain key workstations at work:
http://tinyurl.com/5lvya. It first creates a full system backup, then backs up
files to a network drive as they change on the workstation. If the network drive
is unavailable, as it is on some of the notebook PCs that come and go, files are
backed up to a secondary location on the notebook until the network drive is
again available. At that point, the temp location files are copied to the
network drive. Sweet. Also, it can keep up to five revisions of backed up files.
It's not free (well, I got mine *free* when I bought a $1,800 network drive),
but at $50 it's as good a value as they come, IMO.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

[GaryM]

"riverman" > wrote in
:

> Can anyone recommend a good freeware program for making a
> constantly-updated backup of my system? I just got a 200GB
> external HD, and would like to install a program that keeps track
> of any changes I make to my internal HD and keeps a mirror copy on
> the external HD, just in case I have another total system crash
> like last year. I also want to backup SWMBOs system on the same
> external drive, if possible, although hers would be backed up
> intermittently (whenever I managed to bring the external HD over
> to her office and update).
>
> Thanks, and, uh....TL.
>
> --riverman
>
>
>

Myron,

Suggest you take a look at the latest Norton Ghost. Has everything
you are looking for and then some. Nice piece of software.

For SO's data, you can simply share the new drive over your network
and copy the data using Ghost (another copy of course ;) ).

Another way in the event of not having a network, or if the network
is too slow, is to buy something like this:

http://www.dealsonic.com/stpmidetousb.html

You mount your 200gig drive in it and then connect through USB 2. It
is an extremely fast, portable and flexible solution for backup. I
use this approach for moving large digital video files around (> 40
gig).

Gary

PS I use the backup that came with Windows and it's fine for my
needs.

[riverman]

"GaryM" > wrote in message
. 3.44...
> "riverman" > wrote in
> :
>
> > Can anyone recommend a good freeware program for making a
> > constantly-updated backup of my system? I just got a 200GB
> > external HD, and would like to install a program that keeps track
> > of any changes I make to my internal HD and keeps a mirror copy on
> > the external HD, just in case I have another total system crash
> > like last year. I also want to backup SWMBOs system on the same
> > external drive, if possible, although hers would be backed up
> > intermittently (whenever I managed to bring the external HD over
> > to her office and update).
> >
> > Thanks, and, uh....TL.
> >
> > --riverman
> >
> >
> >
>
> Myron,
>
> Suggest you take a look at the latest Norton Ghost. Has everything
> you are looking for and then some. Nice piece of software.
>
> For SO's data, you can simply share the new drive over your network
> and copy the data using Ghost (another copy of course ;) ).
>
> Another way in the event of not having a network, or if the network
> is too slow, is to buy something like this:
>
> http://www.dealsonic.com/stpmidetousb.html
>
> You mount your 200gig drive in it and then connect through USB 2. It
> is an extremely fast, portable and flexible solution for backup. I
> use this approach for moving large digital video files around (> 40
> gig).
>
> Gary
>
> PS I use the backup that came with Windows and it's fine for my
> needs.

Gary: I already have a very similar item, that connects via my firewire (my
two USBs are precious commodities!) Its stackable, and can be connected via
USB2 or Firewire. http://tinyurl.com/3wjxe

Does Ghost 2003 have a similar 'synchronization' feature, or does it just
copy the entire drive each time? I wish Norton offered an upgrade to the new
Ghost, but they don't.

What's the backup feature in Windoze? Will that synchonize changes?

--riverman

[riverman]

"GaryM" > wrote in message
. 3.44...
> "riverman" > wrote in
> :
>
> > Can anyone recommend a good freeware program for making a
> > constantly-updated backup of my system? I just got a 200GB
> > external HD, and would like to install a program that keeps track
> > of any changes I make to my internal HD and keeps a mirror copy on
> > the external HD, just in case I have another total system crash
> > like last year. I also want to backup SWMBOs system on the same
> > external drive, if possible, although hers would be backed up
> > intermittently (whenever I managed to bring the external HD over
> > to her office and update).
> >
> > Thanks, and, uh....TL.
> >
> > --riverman
> >
> >
> >
>
> Myron,
>
> Suggest you take a look at the latest Norton Ghost. Has everything
> you are looking for and then some. Nice piece of software.
>
> For SO's data, you can simply share the new drive over your network
> and copy the data using Ghost (another copy of course ;) ).
>
> Another way in the event of not having a network, or if the network
> is too slow, is to buy something like this:
>
> http://www.dealsonic.com/stpmidetousb.html
>
> You mount your 200gig drive in it and then connect through USB 2. It
> is an extremely fast, portable and flexible solution for backup. I
> use this approach for moving large digital video files around (> 40
> gig).
>
> Gary
>
> PS I use the backup that came with Windows and it's fine for my
> needs.

Gary: I already have a very similar item, that connects via my firewire (my
two USBs are precious commodities!) Its stackable, and can be connected via
USB2 or Firewire. http://tinyurl.com/3wjxe

Does Ghost 2003 have a similar 'synchronization' feature, or does it just
copy the entire drive each time? I wish Norton offered an upgrade to the new
Ghost, but they don't.

What's the backup feature in Windoze? Will that synchonize changes?

--riverman

[Sarge]

riverman wrote; "What's the backup feature in Windoze? Will that synchonize
changes?"

If you are running Windows XP there is a restore feature that will allow you
to return your computer to a day when you know it was running stable. It
will not lose any files that you may have saved after the restore date it
only resets the operating system. If you were hit by a virus then the
restore file will also contain the virus so you need to restore before the
date you think you picked up the virus.

I don't use any software to back up my files. I just use the restore point
in Windows XP. I built my computer so I installed three hard drives. One
is 40 gigs and the only thing on it is the operating system and any software
that won't install to a different drive. Second drive is a 100 gig and this
is where I save all my data files. This way if I lose the operating system
I still have access to my data files. The last hard drive I threw in there
because I refurbished a computer for my kids and it was in their computer as
a second hard drive and it was not being used. It is a 100 gig hard drive.
I routinely go to my second hard drive and make a second exact copy to the
third drive just incase one fails I don't lose my files.

As I stated in my original post. There are lots of companies that make
software to do what you want. I gave Norton Ghost as an example. Everyone
has their preference how they want to do this and what software. I just
prefer to use what Windows XP gave me.


Sarge

[Stan Gula]

Tim J. wrote:
> This is what I use for certain key workstations at work:
> http://tinyurl.com/5lvya.

FWIW, Norton has abandoned DataKeeper. I used to use that regularly but (as
with all of the PowerQuest/PartitionMagic titles) every time a new disk
drive capacity barrier was reached, the product failed. I went through
several upgrade cycles just to get their products to work with my
newer/bigger drives over the years and then I got sick of that.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

[Tim J.]

"Stan Gula" > wrote in message
news:7SJYc.4740$B91.4234@trndny08...
> Tim J. wrote:
> > This is what I use for certain key workstations at work:
> > http://tinyurl.com/5lvya.
>
> FWIW, Norton has abandoned DataKeeper. I used to use that regularly but (as
> with all of the PowerQuest/PartitionMagic titles) every time a new disk
> drive capacity barrier was reached, the product failed. I went through
> several upgrade cycles just to get their products to work with my
> newer/bigger drives over the years and then I got sick of that.

Gee, a forced update in a Windows world - I've never heard of such heresy! ;-)

From what I can see, you're right (the bastids). Too bad - that was/is a nice
product. Snap!Appliance is still providing DataKeeper as part of buying one of
their units, so they must have a deal with Symantec.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

[Sarge]

Gary wrote: "If I were building a machine and putting 3 harddrives in it,
I'd go the extra mile and install RAID. That way all drives store info on
the other and if one goes, you just swap it out with barely a hiccup. The
new drive immediately rebuilds itself to get you to 'safety' again within a
short time after installation."

I thought about using the raid but I did not since I was given the chip for
free from AMD and the motherboard was given to me by a friend that did not
like it. My total cost in building the chip was basically under 200.00
dollars since I already had or was given parts from friends. If I would
have gone with raid, I would have had to buy a new motherboard and possibly
a new chip. I put this computer together mostly from parts I already owned.
I went this route do to my money I had available to work on this project. I
did upgrade at the time from a 333 to a 2.0 g speed computer.

I am in the of process of looking to build a new computer and giving this
one to my mother. If I do build one I will go with raid since I do not have
any spare parts at the time and my friends are not upgrading at the time.

I only use restore to restore Windows and not to backup my files. I feel
comfortable with storing my data on one drive and my operating system on
another. I only backup my data but by copying the entire drive from one to
another. I have had a few crashes that I decided to just reformat my
operating system hard drive and start over. I have never lost any data they
way I do it. I have looked at adding a I/o card that would allow set up a
raid system but decided I have enough stuff in my computer. I also have a
200 g external hard drive that is connected by firewire that I store photos
on. I use this drive mainly with my digital camera when I go on trips. It
allows me to download pictures without a laptop. This was a freebie so I
use it. I really wanted a laptop but my mother bought me this for Christmas
last year.

Sarge

[Vaughan Hurry]

riverman wrote:


>>
>>>Can anyone recommend a good freeware program for making a
>>>constantly-updated backup of my system? I just got a 200GB
>>>external HD, and would like to install a program that keeps track
>>>of any changes I make to my internal HD and keeps a mirror copy on
>>>the external HD, just in case I have another total system crash
>>>like last year. I also want to backup SWMBOs system on the same
>>>external drive, if possible, although hers would be backed up
>>>intermittently (whenever I managed to bring the external HD over
>>>to her office and update).
>>>
>>>Thanks, and, uh....TL.
>>>
>>>--riverman
>>>

I use FileSync to do daily backups of all my data. It is "freeware" or
you can register cheaply. I do not use it to mirror my entire hard
drive, simply to back up all of my work. For me it has worked
brilliantly and it may do what you want.

Vaughan

http://www.fileware.com/products.htm#FileSync

[Scott Seidman]

"riverman" > wrote in
:

> Can anyone recommend a good freeware program for making a
> constantly-updated backup of my system? I just got a 200GB external
> HD, and would like to install a program that keeps track of any
> changes I make to my internal HD and keeps a mirror copy on the
> external HD, just in case I have another total system crash like last
> year. I also want to backup SWMBOs system on the same external drive,
> if possible, although hers would be backed up intermittently (whenever
> I managed to bring the external HD over to her office and update).
>
> Thanks, and, uh....TL.
>
> --riverman
>
>

Some of the new external disk drives come with a small version of
Retrospect that works reasonably well. As you already have a disk without
it, I don't know how valuable the info will be.

BTW, Retrospect backs up periodically, not continuously

Scott

[Scott Seidman]

"Sarge" > wrote in
:

>
> Although I don't use it you may want to look at stuff from Norton called
> Disk Ghost.
>
>

Ghost is mostly for distribution of numerous identical PC's, not for
backing up one.

Scott

[GaryM]

Scott Seidman > wrote in
. 1.4:

> Ghost is mostly for distribution of numerous identical PC's, not for
> backing up one.
>

That is Ghost Corportate Edition. Ghost Personal is for backup.

http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/ghost_personal/features.html
http://sea.symantec.com/content/product.cfm?productid=9

[Scott Seidman]

GaryM > wrote in
. 3.44:

> Scott Seidman > wrote in
> . 1.4:
>
>> Ghost is mostly for distribution of numerous identical PC's, not for
>> backing up one.
>>
>
> That is Ghost Corportate Edition. Ghost Personal is for backup.
>
> http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/ghost_personal/features.html
> http://sea.symantec.com/content/product.cfm?productid=9
>
>

Thanks for clearing that up. I haven't used the product since way before
symantec started marketing it to the masses-- possibly before symantec even
owned the product.

FWIW, I've been very happy with Dantz Retrospect. At $129, it works really
well

Scott

[GregP]

On 31 Aug 2004 18:02:01 GMT, Scott Seidman
> wrote:

>
>FWIW, I've been very happy with Dantz Retrospect. At $129, it works really
>well


Do you also run a real-time virus checker ? I find that just
having that going slows me down quite a bit and a real-time
disk/file synchronizer has to have an impact as well. Mebbe
it's time to upgrade my 10-mo. old laptop :-)

[Scott Seidman]

GregP > wrote in
:

> On 31 Aug 2004 18:02:01 GMT, Scott Seidman
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>FWIW, I've been very happy with Dantz Retrospect. At $129, it works
>>really well
>
>
> Do you also run a real-time virus checker ? I find that just
> having that going slows me down quite a bit and a real-time
> disk/file synchronizer has to have an impact as well. Mebbe
> it's time to upgrade my 10-mo. old laptop :-)
>

I do run Trend Officescan

I won't run a real-time synchronizer. Once a night is plenty for me. Even
with Retrospect, I won't back up the system or applications, just the data.
I figure if my system crashes, I'm better off doing a clean reinstall of
the system and apps.

Scott

[GregP]

On 31 Aug 2004 18:34:38 GMT, Scott Seidman
> wrote:

>I figure if my system crashes, I'm better off doing a clean reinstall of
>the system and apps.


... mainly because you'll eventually end up doing it anyway,
even if the disk doesn't crash...

[Scott Seidman]

GregP > wrote in
:

> On 31 Aug 2004 18:34:38 GMT, Scott Seidman
> > wrote:
>
>>I figure if my system crashes, I'm better off doing a clean reinstall of
>>the system and apps.
>
>
> ... mainly because you'll eventually end up doing it anyway,
> even if the disk doesn't crash...
>

Actually, computational life has been pretty stable. I do keep a
convenient list of everything I install though, just in case

Scott

[Stan Gula]

Scott Seidman wrote:
> Actually, computational life has been pretty stable. I do keep a
> convenient list of everything I install though, just in case
>
> Scott

Not replying to you specifically, Scott, but nobody has mentioned my current
favorite tool: BootIT-NG. Very inexpensive, excellent partition tool and
imager.
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/

Imaging is the *only* way to go. I image to a spare drive nightly (two
systems) and burn an archival copy to DVD weekly. I also have an FTP robot
run nightly that moves all files touched since the last DVD image up to my
web server. Let's just say I've been burned by backup systems many times
over the past 35 years. About once a month (or so) I do a restore from one
of the DVD images to make sure the system is still working. It pays to have
piles of slightly outmoded systems around.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

[riverman]

"Stan Gula" > wrote in message
news:S95Zc.62$vx6.28@trndny05...
> Not replying to you specifically, Scott, but nobody has mentioned my
current
> favorite tool: BootIT-NG. Very inexpensive, excellent partition tool
and
> imager.
> http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/
>
> Imaging is the *only* way to go. I image to a spare drive nightly (two
> systems) and burn an archival copy to DVD weekly. I also have an FTP
robot
> run nightly that moves all files touched since the last DVD image up to my
> web server. Let's just say I've been burned by backup systems many times
> over the past 35 years. About once a month (or so) I do a restore from
one
> of the DVD images to make sure the system is still working. It pays to
have
> piles of slightly outmoded systems around.

Wanna put that in English, Stan? In fact, can you put into Geekese what I am
looking for, too, while you're at it? What is 'imaging', an 'FTP robot' and
I don't really get what a 'partition' means in these contexts. Do I have to
do something special to my external HD to prepare it to recieve my backup
stuff?

For me, I'm imagining some program that makes a copy of my laptop files
(except the actual application programs; I have the installation disks
already) onto my external HD. When I open a document and make little
changes, it would also modify my archive (either in real time, or when I
shut down). Last year, when my motherboard caved in so badly that the bios
wouldn't even respond (can you say 'expensive paperweight'?), the laptop had
been giving me little hints for a few days, so the night before I lost it
all, I had burned a disk with all the 'my pictures' images, all my 'my
documents' files, and the 'my favorites' folder from explorer. I forefited
all my music files, as well as a bunch of stuff that was stored in places
where I did not remember. Everything else was either applications contained
in the system restore disks, or were accessories for which I had the
installation disks, so I didn't bother backing up those. (OF course, when I
reinstalled I got to spend a month resetting all my settings, finding all my
passwords and tuning Windoze again...what a pain THAT was!) That particular
backup was only two disks large (one for the pictures, one for everything
else), but now I have a ton more stuff (video files, etc), as well as some
music files that I don't want to lose, so it would take a lot more than 2
disks. Also, I don't think I could go through my system like before and
'harvest' things from their home locations like I did last time....I'm
pretty sure that there must be programs that already know where to look for
stuff to save.

Tell me what they call what it is I'm looking for, or a link to a tutorial.
From reading the responses here, I realize that there is more to it than I
suspected.

--riverman

[Stan Gula]

riverman wrote:
> Wanna put that in English, Stan?

My message was for the hardcore geeks, not you, but I'll explain a bit.

partition: a logical disk. This can be an entire physical disk, a slice of
a physical disk, or even spread over mutiple physical disks, Actually
there's a difference between a partition and a logical disk, but for this
conversation, logical disk is good enough. When you reference 'C:' in
Windows, you're referencing a partition on a physisal disk.

image: in this context I'm talking about, a compressed copy of a partition.
You can also take an image of a physical disk. The software I use creates
the image in multiple files of 4.5GB so I can burn them to DVD.

You can take an image of a partition, and restore it completely. For
example, if you had just a C: drive, you could restore your system in
minutes from an image.

The thing you're asking for, real time backup of touched files, I have no
experience with. I like to control stuff manually.

I'll assume you're running XP. There's a tool called robocopy in the XP
resource kit (along with lots of useful and potentially dangerous stuff)
that can do something like what you're trying to do, only manually. Here's
a link to the download page:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=9d467a69-57ff-4ae7-96ee-b18c4790cffd&displaylang=en

--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

[Jeff Miller]

damn... pj does the same thing.... without computers.

jeff

Stan Gula wrote:


> ...my current
> favorite tool: BootIT-NG. Very inexpensive, excellent partition tool and
> imager.
> http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/
>
> Imaging is the *only* way to go. I image to a spare drive nightly (two
> systems) and burn an archival copy to DVD weekly. I also have an FTP robot
> run nightly that moves all files touched since the last DVD image up to my
> web server. Let's just say I've been burned by backup systems many times
> over the past 35 years. About once a month (or so) I do a restore from one
> of the DVD images to make sure the system is still working. It pays to have
> piles of slightly outmoded systems around.