Difference In Hackles?

[prevetdan]

I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle? I assume that Hen is
softer and probably used for wet flies/nymphs and that Rooster is
stiffer thus more suitable for dry flies. Correct? Also what is the
difference between Capes and Saddles? I mean other than what part of
the chicken they come from. Also, being a college student, I am a
pretty budget minded tyer. I would like to know, if anyone can tell
me, how much I would be sacrificing if I got a "Bronze" as opposed to
"Silver" or "Gold" grade? I think I've read somewhere that each
company has it's own method of grading so for sake of argument let's
stick with Whiting for comarisons. Well, I think that will do it for
now. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Daniel

[Mike Connor]

"prevetdan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
> is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
> difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle? I assume that Hen is
> softer and probably used for wet flies/nymphs and that Rooster is
> stiffer thus more suitable for dry flies. Correct?

That is broadly speaking correct. There are many types, grades and uses for
hackle.

Also what is the
> difference between Capes and Saddles?

The cape is the neck of the bird, and contains feathers of varying sizes.
The saddle is the back of the bird, and usually only conatins a couple of
sizes.

I mean other than what part of
> the chicken they come from. Also, being a college student, I am a
> pretty budget minded tyer. I would like to know, if anyone can tell
> me, how much I would be sacrificing if I got a "Bronze" as opposed to
> "Silver" or "Gold" grade? I think I've read somewhere that each
> company has it's own method of grading so for sake of argument let's
> stick with Whiting for comarisons. Well, I think that will do it for
> now. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
> Regards,
> Daniel
>

The main difference in the various grades of such genetic capes and saddles,
is the number of feathers on the skin. The quality for tying purposes, does
not vary much, ( if at all) between various grades from the same producer.

See here for more info;
http://flyfisherman.com/ftb/sshackle/

Thus will help, but is by no means comprehensive. The only real way to
learn about these things, is to keep plugging at it. Choose the flies you
wish to tie, find out what is required, and then obtain it. If you are on a
budget, it is probably better to avoid buying capes and saddles, which will
tie hundreds of flies, but be an expensive initial outlay, and go for
"Whiting 100´s" or similar.

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/prorevw/whiting100s.html

TL
MC

[Mike Connor]

"prevetdan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
> is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
> difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle? I assume that Hen is
> softer and probably used for wet flies/nymphs and that Rooster is
> stiffer thus more suitable for dry flies. Correct?

That is broadly speaking correct. There are many types, grades and uses for
hackle.

Also what is the
> difference between Capes and Saddles?

The cape is the neck of the bird, and contains feathers of varying sizes.
The saddle is the back of the bird, and usually only conatins a couple of
sizes.

I mean other than what part of
> the chicken they come from. Also, being a college student, I am a
> pretty budget minded tyer. I would like to know, if anyone can tell
> me, how much I would be sacrificing if I got a "Bronze" as opposed to
> "Silver" or "Gold" grade? I think I've read somewhere that each
> company has it's own method of grading so for sake of argument let's
> stick with Whiting for comarisons. Well, I think that will do it for
> now. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
> Regards,
> Daniel
>

The main difference in the various grades of such genetic capes and saddles,
is the number of feathers on the skin. The quality for tying purposes, does
not vary much, ( if at all) between various grades from the same producer.

See here for more info;
http://flyfisherman.com/ftb/sshackle/

Thus will help, but is by no means comprehensive. The only real way to
learn about these things, is to keep plugging at it. Choose the flies you
wish to tie, find out what is required, and then obtain it. If you are on a
budget, it is probably better to avoid buying capes and saddles, which will
tie hundreds of flies, but be an expensive initial outlay, and go for
"Whiting 100´s" or similar.

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/prorevw/whiting100s.html

TL
MC

[Scott Seidman]

"prevetdan" > wrote in news:1104810499.678278.120680
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
> is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
> difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle? I assume that Hen is
> softer and probably used for wet flies/nymphs and that Rooster is
> stiffer thus more suitable for dry flies. Correct? Also what is the
> difference between Capes and Saddles? I mean other than what part of
> the chicken they come from. Also, being a college student, I am a
> pretty budget minded tyer. I would like to know, if anyone can tell
> me, how much I would be sacrificing if I got a "Bronze" as opposed to
> "Silver" or "Gold" grade? I think I've read somewhere that each
> company has it's own method of grading so for sake of argument let's
> stick with Whiting for comarisons. Well, I think that will do it for
> now. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
> Regards,
> Daniel
>

You're dead on about the differences between hen and rooster. The cape
is from the neck area, all the way to the tip top of the head. The
saddle is more from the back, and has longer feathers.

When you buy a cape, you get a wide variety of hackle sizes, but when you
buy a saddle, you only get two or three sizes. The saddle feathers are
long, and usually you can get about five flies tied with one feather.

As for grade, you can see the differences on the Whiting Farms website,
when its up and running again. These days, all "genetic" hackle, that
is, from birds raised for the purpose, is pretty damn good. In fact, I
believe that Bronze-grade stuff is as good as what used to be called a
"grade 2" about ten years ago. You'll get less feather density on the
lower grades, and you might not get as many feathers in the size 20-24
range (I'm not as sure about the latter).

There are two options for the budget-minded that you should consider.
Hoffman bundled a half a brown neck with a half a grizzly neck, and that
combo should get you through many flies. When you have half-necks,
though, its not possible to get feathers with opposing curves for
streamer wings, and the like.

Also, consider buying "100-packs", which are about 20 saddle feathers all
of the same size and color. This is great when you find a bare patch on
your neck where all the size 14 feathers used to be. If you know what
you're going to be tying, this can be an OK deal. They also sell quarter
saddles for a little more money.

I've stuck to Whiting and Hoffman hackles, and Metz before that. Collins
is also supposed to have decent hackle, and Keogh is a less expensive
option, but I know little about the quality.

Scott

[Scott Seidman]

"prevetdan" > wrote in news:1104810499.678278.120680
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
> is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
> difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle? I assume that Hen is
> softer and probably used for wet flies/nymphs and that Rooster is
> stiffer thus more suitable for dry flies. Correct? Also what is the
> difference between Capes and Saddles? I mean other than what part of
> the chicken they come from. Also, being a college student, I am a
> pretty budget minded tyer. I would like to know, if anyone can tell
> me, how much I would be sacrificing if I got a "Bronze" as opposed to
> "Silver" or "Gold" grade? I think I've read somewhere that each
> company has it's own method of grading so for sake of argument let's
> stick with Whiting for comarisons. Well, I think that will do it for
> now. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
> Regards,
> Daniel
>

You're dead on about the differences between hen and rooster. The cape
is from the neck area, all the way to the tip top of the head. The
saddle is more from the back, and has longer feathers.

When you buy a cape, you get a wide variety of hackle sizes, but when you
buy a saddle, you only get two or three sizes. The saddle feathers are
long, and usually you can get about five flies tied with one feather.

As for grade, you can see the differences on the Whiting Farms website,
when its up and running again. These days, all "genetic" hackle, that
is, from birds raised for the purpose, is pretty damn good. In fact, I
believe that Bronze-grade stuff is as good as what used to be called a
"grade 2" about ten years ago. You'll get less feather density on the
lower grades, and you might not get as many feathers in the size 20-24
range (I'm not as sure about the latter).

There are two options for the budget-minded that you should consider.
Hoffman bundled a half a brown neck with a half a grizzly neck, and that
combo should get you through many flies. When you have half-necks,
though, its not possible to get feathers with opposing curves for
streamer wings, and the like.

Also, consider buying "100-packs", which are about 20 saddle feathers all
of the same size and color. This is great when you find a bare patch on
your neck where all the size 14 feathers used to be. If you know what
you're going to be tying, this can be an OK deal. They also sell quarter
saddles for a little more money.

I've stuck to Whiting and Hoffman hackles, and Metz before that. Collins
is also supposed to have decent hackle, and Keogh is a less expensive
option, but I know little about the quality.

Scott

[jackk]

Rooster saddles have the stiffest barbs and are best for dry flies, Then it
is rooster saddles, hen necks and hen saddles. the latter are only good for
wet flies.
I find that I tie most of my dry flies with grizzly and brown. Therefore I
have good necks and saddles of these in stock. Since I tie fewer dry flies
in the other colors, I am constantly on the lookout for saddles in the right
sizes for these lesser used colors. Since I tie most of my dry flies in
sizes smaller thatn a 14, I jump at any saddle I can find that will tie
tiny sizes.

--


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"prevetdan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
> is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
> difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle? I assume that Hen is
> softer and probably used for wet flies/nymphs and that Rooster is
> stiffer thus more suitable for dry flies. Correct? Also what is the
> difference between Capes and Saddles? I mean other than what part of
> the chicken they come from. Also, being a college student, I am a
> pretty budget minded tyer. I would like to know, if anyone can tell
> me, how much I would be sacrificing if I got a "Bronze" as opposed to
> "Silver" or "Gold" grade? I think I've read somewhere that each
> company has it's own method of grading so for sake of argument let's
> stick with Whiting for comarisons. Well, I think that will do it for
> now. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
> Regards,
> Daniel
>

[jackk]

Rooster saddles have the stiffest barbs and are best for dry flies, Then it
is rooster saddles, hen necks and hen saddles. the latter are only good for
wet flies.
I find that I tie most of my dry flies with grizzly and brown. Therefore I
have good necks and saddles of these in stock. Since I tie fewer dry flies
in the other colors, I am constantly on the lookout for saddles in the right
sizes for these lesser used colors. Since I tie most of my dry flies in
sizes smaller thatn a 14, I jump at any saddle I can find that will tie
tiny sizes.

--


---------------------------------------------------------------------
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There is a solution!"

Protected by GIANT Company's Spam Inspector
The most powerful anti-spam software available.
http://mail.spaminspector.com


"prevetdan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
> is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
> difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle? I assume that Hen is
> softer and probably used for wet flies/nymphs and that Rooster is
> stiffer thus more suitable for dry flies. Correct? Also what is the
> difference between Capes and Saddles? I mean other than what part of
> the chicken they come from. Also, being a college student, I am a
> pretty budget minded tyer. I would like to know, if anyone can tell
> me, how much I would be sacrificing if I got a "Bronze" as opposed to
> "Silver" or "Gold" grade? I think I've read somewhere that each
> company has it's own method of grading so for sake of argument let's
> stick with Whiting for comarisons. Well, I think that will do it for
> now. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
> Regards,
> Daniel
>

[Padishar Creel]

"prevetdan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
> is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
> difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle?
---snipped-----

You have rec'd some great information from some world class tyers. The only
thing this amateur can contribute is that their are many more chicken
feather dealers out there than the big guys. I have purchased some
incredible necks/saddles from Keogh (he always gives you the saddle with
every neck you buy, free) and believe it or not, from Cabelas!

Here is a link you might find useful:

http://www.eflytyer.com/materials/feathers.html

Chris

[Padishar Creel]

"prevetdan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
> is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
> difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle?
---snipped-----

You have rec'd some great information from some world class tyers. The only
thing this amateur can contribute is that their are many more chicken
feather dealers out there than the big guys. I have purchased some
incredible necks/saddles from Keogh (he always gives you the saddle with
every neck you buy, free) and believe it or not, from Cabelas!

Here is a link you might find useful:

http://www.eflytyer.com/materials/feathers.html

Chris

[Ernie]

"Padishar Creel" > wrote in message
...
> "prevetdan" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
> > is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
> > difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle?
> ---snipped-----
>
> You have rec'd some great information from some world class tyers. The
only
> thing this amateur can contribute is that their are many more chicken
> feather dealers out there than the big guys. I have purchased some
> incredible necks/saddles from Keogh (he always gives you the saddle with
> every neck you buy, free) and believe it or not, from Cabelas!
>
> Here is a link you might find useful:
>
> http://www.eflytyer.com/materials/feathers.html
>
> Chris

Ahh for the good old days when the flyfishing shows had a cardboard box full
of
India rooster necks for $2 each. They would let you dig around until you
found
just what you wanted. Those were the days my friend.
Ernie

[Ernie]

"Padishar Creel" > wrote in message
...
> "prevetdan" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
> > is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
> > difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle?
> ---snipped-----
>
> You have rec'd some great information from some world class tyers. The
only
> thing this amateur can contribute is that their are many more chicken
> feather dealers out there than the big guys. I have purchased some
> incredible necks/saddles from Keogh (he always gives you the saddle with
> every neck you buy, free) and believe it or not, from Cabelas!
>
> Here is a link you might find useful:
>
> http://www.eflytyer.com/materials/feathers.html
>
> Chris

Ahh for the good old days when the flyfishing shows had a cardboard box full
of
India rooster necks for $2 each. They would let you dig around until you
found
just what you wanted. Those were the days my friend.
Ernie

[Padishar Creel]

"Ernie" shared his love of the good old days when the flyfishing shows had a
cardboard box full of India rooster necks for $2 each. They would let you
dig around until you found just what you wanted. Those were the days my
friend.

-----------------

That they were, I do remember those bins myself. Some pretty interesting
colors too, if memory serves.

Good to hear from you Ernie...

Chris

[Randy]

That is a great store of information. Thank you.

"Padishar Creel" > wrote in message
...
> "prevetdan" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> I have been shopping for hackle and while not that new to tying, this
>> is the first time I've bought hackle. Can someone tell me what the
>> difference is between Hen and Rooster hackle?
> ---snipped-----
>
> You have rec'd some great information from some world class tyers. The
> only
> thing this amateur can contribute is that their are many more chicken
> feather dealers out there than the big guys. I have purchased some
> incredible necks/saddles from Keogh (he always gives you the saddle with
> every neck you buy, free) and believe it or not, from Cabelas!
>
> Here is a link you might find useful:
>
> http://www.eflytyer.com/materials/feathers.html
>
> Chris
>
>