is this a silly idea? (surf fishing in Florida)

[[email protected]]

Hi,

I am a complete beginner in fishing and my only experience so far was
fishing in the Mosqito Lagoon in East Central Florida, close to Cape
Canaveral. Using a 6 foot rod, a braided line (20lbs equivalent), a
metal leader (also 20lbs) with a swivel and a snap (I know, this is a
newbie's sin, but it allows me to changes lures easily) and a Jonhson's
Silver Minnow (which is actually golden) I caught speckled sea trouts.

I am thinking of trying to catch some fish in the surf off the closest
beach. All the fishermen here use very large fighing poles and live
bait so I wonder, is my idea of using a small 6 foot rod with my
braided line and my Johnson spoon really silly, or might I still catch
something?

(I do not have the money for another rod, nor do I feel comfortable
changing my line, but I would gladly use another lure if advised to do
so).

Any advice/comments would be very much appreciated!

Kind regards,

TN

[joe]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am a complete beginner in fishing and my only experience so far was
> fishing in the Mosqito Lagoon in East Central Florida, close to Cape
> Canaveral. Using a 6 foot rod, a braided line (20lbs equivalent), a
> metal leader (also 20lbs) with a swivel and a snap (I know, this is a
> newbie's sin, but it allows me to changes lures easily) and a Jonhson's
> Silver Minnow (which is actually golden) I caught speckled sea trouts.
>
> I am thinking of trying to catch some fish in the surf off the closest
> beach. All the fishermen here use very large fighing poles and live
> bait so I wonder, is my idea of using a small 6 foot rod with my
> braided line and my Johnson spoon really silly, or might I still catch
> something?
>
> (I do not have the money for another rod, nor do I feel comfortable
> changing my line, but I would gladly use another lure if advised to do
> so).
>
> Any advice/comments would be very much appreciated!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> TN

You can always use whatever you have and take pleasure in the fact you
are fishing. Equipment can make a difference in the degree of success
you have. However, you could just as easily catch as many or more fish
than someone with better suited equipment.

Nothing wrong with your setup but I would probably change the leader to
heavy fluorocarbon (something 20 - 40 pounds) unless you are fishing
sharks primarily. Using artificial lures it is less likely you will be
hooking sharks.

The benefit of the longer rods is the distance they produce in the cast.
They accomplish getting your bait (usually not artificials) out to
deeper water where predators or scavengers are looking for a meal.

The braided line actually will help you get better casting distance due
to low line memory, slick finish and small diameter for the strength.
The spoon is a good choice, I would probably use silver (for various
reasons but mostly because it has produced many times for me). I always
use a swivel/snap-swivel with a spoon to avoid line twist. I would
probably not do so with a lure as the extra weight will possibly change
the lure balance or action. Using a few simple knots it takes less than
a minute to make the change.

Trout would be a possibility for you along with other species. It is
quite possible to find predators running along the shoreline herding
bait in the shallows. Look for changes in the bottom that may force fish
closer to shore or funnel them through a specific channel where you can
target these fish. Also, areas that allow for easy ambush of the
baitfish.

Maybe some of this will help.

Good Fishin'

atljoe
--
"Atlanta Joe" aka Joe Webb
Flats fishing is Flat Fun!
Visit my site at http://flatsfisher.com

[Ray or Bobbi Adams]

Use what you have and enjoy the pleasure of fishing. Remember its called
fishing, not catching, so enjoy the fresh air/

[[email protected]]

joe wrote:
> The spoon is a good choice, I would probably use silver (for various
> reasons but mostly because it has produced many times for me). I
always
> use a swivel/snap-swivel with a spoon to avoid line twist. I would
> probably not do so with a lure as the extra weight will possibly
change
> the lure balance or action. Using a few simple knots it takes less
than
> a minute to make the change.

Good morning Joe!

Thanks for the info. I have a couple of follow-up questions:

1) Spoons: mine are the "weedless" type. Is that also ok in the surf
(I realize there is not much weed there, but it could save me the cost
of getting another one).
2) Spoons & weight: which size spoon should I choose? I mean - the
heavier, the further I can cast it, in particular in a windy day, but
heavier is also bigger, which might end up being too big for the fish.
Can I add weight to the leader by adding a couple of splint shot
sinkers or is the entire beach going to choke to death while laughing
at me :-)
3) a little off-topic here, but I still want to ask you. Is is really
that bad to fish with a swivel/snap when using a lure? I use Yo-Zuri
and Rapala Original Floating lures and while I do notice a difference
in behavior (it takes less pull to have them go deeper) it is slight.
I was under the impression that the problem with a swivel/snap is that
it is too *visible* for the fish, but my (maybe mistaken) commen sense
tells me that a fish seeing a lure with a lure on leader with a
swivel/snap will think that the lure is "chasing" the rest of the
hardware, I mean - this is a fish, not a PhD student from MIT, I am
trying to catch - I am really mistaken here?

On one hand, my only fishing book (-: unsurprizingly and adequately
called "Fishing for Dummies" :-) says that "some anglers use snaps for
changing lures or baits as well. This technique is a lazy person's way
out, and is definitely NOT the way to get the best action out of your
lure" while, on the other hand, local fishermen had told me that this
is simply "techno-snobism from purists" (and quote here). What do you
think?

Again - many thanks for everything!

TN

PS: please let me know if I should maybe get another type of spoon/lure!

[Charlie Bress]

I fish the surf on the west coast of Florida.
Here's my take on your questions.

> 1) Spoons: mine are the "weedless" type. Is that also ok in the surf
Sure. You don't need the weed guards, but they won't hurt.

> 2) Spoons & weight: which size spoon should I choose? I mean - the
> heavier, the further I can cast it, in particular in a windy day, but
> heavier is also bigger, which might end up being too big for the fish.
The lures should be selected to match the rod you have. You want the whole
setup to be comfortable to use. You will be doing a lot of casting

> Can I add weight to the leader by adding a couple of splint shot
> sinkers or is the entire beach going to choke to death while laughing
> at me :-)
Not a good idea. Use the right weight lure.

> 3) a little off-topic here, but I still want to ask you. Is is really
> that bad to fish with a swivel/snap when using a lure? I use Yo-Zuri
> and Rapala Original Floating lures and while I do notice a difference
> in behavior (it takes less pull to have them go deeper) it is slight.
> I was under the impression that the problem with a swivel/snap is that
> it is too *visible* for the fish, but my (maybe mistaken) commen sense
> tells me that a fish seeing a lure with a lure on leader with a
> swivel/snap will think that the lure is "chasing" the rest of the
> hardware, I mean - this is a fish, not a PhD student from MIT, I am
> trying to catch - I am really mistaken here?

I use a snap swivel almost all the time. Those fish out there are predators.
They attack things that trigger some signal that says "eat that". If they
will attack a metal spoon, they will not be put off by a little extra metal.
I know that some will argue with that. Don't bother. I have discussed this
with several fish that I have landed and they agree with me.
>
> On one hand, my only fishing book (-: unsurprizingly and adequately
> called "Fishing for Dummies" :-) says that "some anglers use snaps for
> changing lures or baits as well. This technique is a lazy person's way
> out, and is definitely NOT the way to get the best action out of your
> lure" while, on the other hand, local fishermen had told me that this
> is simply "techno-snobism from purists" (and quote here). What do you
> think?
> PS: please let me know if I should maybe get another type of spoon/lure!

When you are out there fishing and some one is catching and you are not,
just go up to the guy or gal and after you say "Hi" ask " What are they
hitting today?" 99% of the folks out there will be happy to help.

Best of luck.

Charlie

[[email protected]]

Charlie Bress wrote:
> When you are out there fishing and some one is catching and you are
not,
> just go up to the guy or gal and after you say "Hi" ask " What are
they
> hitting today?" 99% of the folks out there will be happy to help.

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for the advice. The only problem over here (in the New Smyrna
Beach, Volusia County, area) is that 99.99999% of the people fishing in
the surf are using live bait whereas I am *only* interested in using
artificial lures (I probably dont' want to troll here explaining why).

Most books are about bass fishing or fly fishing and most people use
some kind of boats. Fishing with artificials, from the beach with a 6
foot spinning rod does not seem very popular around here :-((

I have also been looking for anyone willing to show me how to fish in
the Intercoastal River, but the prices are simply beyond my means: they
are all one day boat charters, and nobody seems to be giving lessons
from the river banks, fishing piers, docks, etc.

Lastly, I try fishing off my kayak, which very few people seem to be
doing around here either. So again - I do trial and error - most of
which seems to be in the "error" category judging by the meager results
(although the weather here has been so cold and windy that this might
(maybe) explain why fish are not too tempted by my clumsy efforts...)

Pretty much everybody here is on boats with live bait whether on the
StJohns River, the Intercoastal River, the docks or the beach.

Anyway - while I still enjoy myself tremendously every time (-: yes, it
is called "fishing" not "catching" :-) making all the newbie's first
steps without much advice is not easy... [sigh]

Any ideas?

Cheers,

TN

[[email protected]]

if you try the soft plastics in various sizes from your kayak, you will
do ok with
your 6 ft rod.

problem from the surf down there is that you need to find structure and
cuts, I don't know
your area specifically but from Jacksonville down through St.
Augustine, the regular
ocean front is flat making it very tough for artificials because you
can't place the
lure in a good feeding lane.

the other thing for trout/weakies/specs or whatever you know them by,
early
morning (meaning first light) is best in the shallows. And they
typically need to
be ambushed by some structure unless you are just going to drift and
jig.

with a kayak, there is no reason why you can't fish the backwaters and
hit
some fish. for flyfishing try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly for some
suggestions.

[Calif Bill]

Here on the Pacific Coast, we use short spinners and small grubs for surf
perch. They run up to 3#. You do not cast out that far.
Bill

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Charlie Bress wrote:
> > When you are out there fishing and some one is catching and you are
> not,
> > just go up to the guy or gal and after you say "Hi" ask " What are
> they
> > hitting today?" 99% of the folks out there will be happy to help.
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Thanks for the advice. The only problem over here (in the New Smyrna
> Beach, Volusia County, area) is that 99.99999% of the people fishing in
> the surf are using live bait whereas I am *only* interested in using
> artificial lures (I probably dont' want to troll here explaining why).
>
> Most books are about bass fishing or fly fishing and most people use
> some kind of boats. Fishing with artificials, from the beach with a 6
> foot spinning rod does not seem very popular around here :-((
>
> I have also been looking for anyone willing to show me how to fish in
> the Intercoastal River, but the prices are simply beyond my means: they
> are all one day boat charters, and nobody seems to be giving lessons
> from the river banks, fishing piers, docks, etc.
>
> Lastly, I try fishing off my kayak, which very few people seem to be
> doing around here either. So again - I do trial and error - most of
> which seems to be in the "error" category judging by the meager results
> (although the weather here has been so cold and windy that this might
> (maybe) explain why fish are not too tempted by my clumsy efforts...)
>
> Pretty much everybody here is on boats with live bait whether on the
> StJohns River, the Intercoastal River, the docks or the beach.
>
> Anyway - while I still enjoy myself tremendously every time (-: yes, it
> is called "fishing" not "catching" :-) making all the newbie's first
> steps without much advice is not easy... [sigh]
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Cheers,
>
> TN
>

[[email protected]]

Calif Bill wrote:
> Here on the Pacific Coast, we use short spinners and small grubs for
surf
> perch. They run up to 3#. You do not cast out that far.
> Bill


a guy in a shop around here reccommended to me the following lures for
surf fishing:

1) Nemire Red Ripper Lure (silver color)
2) Nemire Spoon Buzzer Sr 5/8 ounce lure

Any opinions on these two?

Thanks!

[Calif Bill]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Calif Bill wrote:
> > Here on the Pacific Coast, we use short spinners and small grubs for
> surf
> > perch. They run up to 3#. You do not cast out that far.
> > Bill
>
>
> a guy in a shop around here reccommended to me the following lures for
> surf fishing:
>
> 1) Nemire Red Ripper Lure (silver color)
> 2) Nemire Spoon Buzzer Sr 5/8 ounce lure
>
> Any opinions on these two?
>
> Thanks!
>

Not familiar with either one.
Bill

[joe]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> Thanks for the info. I have a couple of follow-up questions:
>
> 1) Spoons: mine are the "weedless" type. Is that also ok in the surf
> (I realize there is not much weed there, but it could save me the cost
> of getting another one).

The weedless spoon is fine. I have seen no missed hook ups due to the
weed guard. In fact, it can be an indicator of a missed hit. If you
think the spoon got bumped by a fish and upon looking at the spoon the
weed guard is bent down, you had a hit. That means there is/was an
interested fish out there where you last cast and you should try another
cast quickly in that same area.

If weeds are not an issue, there are many other spoons, sometimes at a
lower cost that will work as well. Some, with a trailing hook rather
than an integrated hook, maybe with a rattle or a skirt. These will have
a slightly different action and I have used these also when weeds are
not a problem.

> 2) Spoons & weight: which size spoon should I choose? I mean - the
> heavier, the further I can cast it, in particular in a windy day, but
> heavier is also bigger, which might end up being too big for the fish.
> Can I add weight to the leader by adding a couple of splint shot
> sinkers or is the entire beach going to choke to death while laughing
> at me :-)

As noted above, there are many different 'spoons' and they have
different actions and benefits. The Johnson Minnow spoon comes in sizes
as much as an ounce (I have not seen them in many stores) which is a
large spoon. It is always surprising how small a fish can actually go
after even large lures. It will probably limit smaller fish though. The
Johnson Minnow spoon is light for the size and the wind will effect the
distance.

There is one 'spoon' as I recall, the 'KastMaster' which has high mass
for the size and can be cast a mile. Not sure how much action it has and
it would need to be retrieved at a speed to keep it from going too deep
in shallower water. Along with the weight is how much area the spoon has
which could impart more action or more lift to keep the spoon riding
higher in the water column.

There is a consideration with a spoon or any lure actually of how fast
it may need to be worked. For sinking lures this is important as shallow
water will find the lure on the bottom which works for some but not for
all. I don't often add weight but you can do this. It could allow you to
fish a light, wobbly spoon at a deeper depth if needed.

> 3) a little off-topic here, but I still want to ask you. Is is really
> that bad to fish with a swivel/snap when using a lure? I use Yo-Zuri
> and Rapala Original Floating lures and while I do notice a difference
> in behavior (it takes less pull to have them go deeper) it is slight.
> I was under the impression that the problem with a swivel/snap is that
> it is too *visible* for the fish, but my (maybe mistaken) commen sense
> tells me that a fish seeing a lure with a lure on leader with a
> swivel/snap will think that the lure is "chasing" the rest of the
> hardware, I mean - this is a fish, not a PhD student from MIT, I am
> trying to catch - I am really mistaken here?

On sal****er fish, with a lure, it is less likely to be a visibility
issue with a lure. I am just not sure that if I am already throwing a
piece of plastic or metal, potentially with three treble hooks hanging
off of it that a small swivel at the eyelet will visually turn off a
fish. But, in some cases it could. Really more likely though in the
potentially un-natural action it may add to a lure that otherwise is
designed to be imitate a wonded or scared bait fish.

When the water is low, the area is open, the temps are cold and fish are
less aggressive they may look more closely at the lure and who knows
what could turn them off.

Ultimately I would do what you are comfortable with if you are catching
fish. If you are not catching fish you may want to try something
different. It really is not too difficult or time consuming to tie on a
lure. My biggest concern usually that I am whacking away at my leader
which if fluorocarbon can be expensive. I suggest using fluoro as it is
less visible to fish reportedly along with being less stiff allowing
great lure action. Since you are using a heavier line than your running
line, a less sucure knot, even 70 percent break strength is still
greater than your running line.

For swimming lures I use the Homer Rhodes knot. Very easy to tie, simply
two overhand knots that jam together. It is a weak knot but when tied in
20 - 40 pound leader material for light tackle angling it has caught
many fish for me without fail.

This is a great animated display of how to tie this simple knot:

<http://www.noreast.com/knots/knotspage3.cfm>

Here is a link to a forum that mentions knots; of course every angler
you talk to will have a different suggestion it seems.

<http://pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3571&goto=nextoldest>

>
> On one hand, my only fishing book (-: unsurprizingly and adequately
> called "Fishing for Dummies" :-) says that "some anglers use snaps for
> changing lures or baits as well. This technique is a lazy person's way
> out, and is definitely NOT the way to get the best action out of your
> lure" while, on the other hand, local fishermen had told me that this
> is simply "techno-snobism from purists" (and quote here). What do you
> think?

You will always find someone who has an opinion on something. Me
included. However, if you are having a good time and not hurting anyone
you should do what you enjoy. If it means more to you to 'fit in' then
you may compromise and play along if you want. If you go out and catch
fish, your 'peculiar' method may suddenly be the 'in thing' to do.

I have caught fish in some strange ways, a spoon sitting on the bottom
while I undo a wind knot and immediately when I begin to reel in a fish
is on. The fish would have had to be right on top of it all that time
waiting it seems.

Personally i would probably not use the snap swivel in everything as I
think it may effect my catch. Nothing to do with a snobbish view really.
If you are are not missing any fish due to the snap I would use it if it
worked for you and provided the simplicity you are looking for.

Hope that answers your questions.

Good Fishin'

atljoe
--
"Atlanta Joe" aka Joe Webb
Flats fishing is Flat Fun!
Visit my site at http://flatsfisher.com

[joe]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> a guy in a shop around here reccommended to me the following lures for
> surf fishing:
>
> 1) Nemire Red Ripper Lure (silver color)
> 2) Nemire Spoon Buzzer Sr 5/8 ounce lure
>
> Any opinions on these two?

Someone local would probably know more than I; I have used the Nemire,
they look great.

Never caught anything on them and they have a premium price.

There are similar lures cheaper I think. It is surprising how many bass
lures are showing up in sal****er. I have used some of the big bladed
spinner type lures and caught nice redfish.

Would probably not hurt to buy one and try it.

I noted you also have a kayak; you should definitely look at using that
in the intercoastal. I am not familiar specifically with that area but
there should be some spots that fish target bait on tide flows.

I went out with a kayak guide up (down for me) in Jacksonville/St.
Augustine to get some ideas of what I was doing wrong (could always
catch fish in Tampa flats). I had used some of the right techniques and
even hit some spots correctly but when we went it was a much lower tide
than I had expected. What was a large, grass spotted area was a maze of
small creeks when we fished it. Where the 'creeks' joined typcially were
deeper holes that held fish. Also, where there as a point and a fast
current reds were hanging out for bait to be washed through.

Try the 'paddle-fishing.com' site <http://www.paddle-fishing.com> to see
if there is anyone there in your area.

Good Fihsin'

atljoe
--
"Atlanta Joe" aka Joe Webb
Flats fishing is Flat Fun!
Visit my site at http://flatsfisher.com

[Sarge]

What you are using will work but you will not have the casting distance that
the larger poles have. Your rod is not designed for surf fishing but you
can use it. Try casting 3 and 4 inch lures such as Sal****er Assassins,
sparkle beetles and other similar type lures between the breaks in the sand
bars. Bait fish will congregate in between theses breaks and the predators
will prowl here for food.

You may want to wade out into the water to fish to get better distance. If
you decide to wade do not take steps but move by sliding your feet along the
bottom. This way you will not step on a stingray. Sliding your foot may
hot one but they will move and not sting. Wear long pants to help protect
your legs in case you do accidentally step on a sting ray and protection
from jelly fish. Wear beach shoes or tennis shoes for foot protection.

If you do catch a fish, never put the fish on a stringer attached to your
body unless it is a floating stringer that floats away from your body. Many
surf fisherman have been accidentally bitten by sharks going after the fish
on the stringer.

Wearing a PFD for safety is not a bad idea if you are worried about rip
tides, drop off are other unexpected lost of footing.

Sarge

[sprattoo]

My first experience in surf casting was with a light 6' rod that I had been
using for trout/brook fishing and spin-casting for bass. I got tangled up
with the other guys and made a mess...

The next day I bought a frozen Mackerel and was determined to learn how to
fish for stripers. 45 mins. later I walked away from the rocks with a 26 or
27" striper that doubled my poe over when I was fighting him. Even if he had
broken the pole and pulled me in it would have been a TON of fun. I
personally have come to hate the braided line.. but if you like it, great.

If you can get a baited hook in the water and reel in a fish.... what you
have is great I say! If anyone scoffs at your rod and set-up, they really
aren't much in the way of sportsmen. i have seen kids with $8.00 Walmart
poles catch more than the guy with the $300.00 reel /rod. I don't think the
fish look up out of the water to see the pricetag on your reel.

My first striper cost me $4.00 of 12-15LB monofilament, .25 cent 1 Oz.
sinker and a .15 cent hook. (still have the line and the hook i think).
Don't sweat it.. just go give it a try.

--
_______________________________
Everything from fishing to Freaks
www.sprattoo.com
_______________________________
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I am a complete beginner in fishing and my only experience so far was
> fishing in the Mosqito Lagoon in East Central Florida, close to Cape
> Canaveral. Using a 6 foot rod, a braided line (20lbs equivalent), a
> metal leader (also 20lbs) with a swivel and a snap (I know, this is a
> newbie's sin, but it allows me to changes lures easily) and a Jonhson's
> Silver Minnow (which is actually golden) I caught speckled sea trouts.
>
> I am thinking of trying to catch some fish in the surf off the closest
> beach. All the fishermen here use very large fighing poles and live
> bait so I wonder, is my idea of using a small 6 foot rod with my
> braided line and my Johnson spoon really silly, or might I still catch
> something?
>
> (I do not have the money for another rod, nor do I feel comfortable
> changing my line, but I would gladly use another lure if advised to do
> so).
>
> Any advice/comments would be very much appreciated!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> TN
>