Re: A Quick Intro & Rod/Reel Question

[AJH]

Do you want a spinning or a baitcasting outfit?

[Charles Summers]

Sure Jake, this is the way it all starts out. First the little ponds, then
the tiny streams, and before you know it you're in debt up to your ears in
boat payments and truck payments! On top of those payments, you can expect
that you'll probably be buying a new rod or two every other months which of
course need to have reels attached to make them useful. Then you need baits
and boxes and other goodies to fill up the other compartments of that 20K
boat.

Whew... I think my life just flashed in front of my eyes there... sorry.

Welcome aboard the R.O.F.B. I agree that this is a very nice place to be
when not on the water, but it's also like everywhere else in that you'll
find some of us are not so nice, some of the time. That's ok though because
we're all human.

As far as your rod recommendation, for finesse fishing you'll probably want
to start with a spinning rod and reel. They're better for throwing light to
medium heavy baits with lighter lines, and also easier to learn to fish
with. It's also harder to use a baitcaster when you're trying to avoid
overhanging branches from the bank. For the price range you stated, you can
get a very nice outfit with. Or, staying in that price range, you can get
two nice outfits. There's no reason to spent $150.00 on one combo at this
point. Believe me, that'll come later.

My recommendation is a 6' spinning rod like this: http://tinyurl.com/3cbx4

You can't go wrong with Shimano...


"J.P." > wrote in message
...
>> My name is Jake. >

[J.P.]

I'm familiar with spinning gear and feel that it would best fit my needs at
this time. I suppose I should have been more specific with my post. My
apologies.

J.P.

"AJH" > wrote in message
...
> Do you want a spinning or a baitcasting outfit?
>
>
>
>

[Illinois Fisherman]

The Clarus is a decent rod and will give good service. The graphite material
used in the construction is IM7 on that rod, so it has good sensitivity and
a little give. It has a fast tip for casting just about anything. If your in
slop get a medium to medium heavy 6.5ft rod. If your in tight quarters learn
how to "pitch" your lure. You should be able to get about 35ft or more on a
good pitch type cast.

A size 200/2000 or 250/2500 spinning reel will be your best al-around reel
something that will hold about 100 to 120 yards of 10lb line. If you look at
the reel it should list a 6, 8, and 10 yard line size.


"J.P." > wrote in message
...
> I'm familiar with spinning gear and feel that it would best fit my needs
at
> this time. I suppose I should have been more specific with my post. My
> apologies.
>
> J.P.
>
> "AJH" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Do you want a spinning or a baitcasting outfit?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Craig Baugher]

I.F. wrote: "The Clarus is a decent rod and will give good service. The
graphite material used in the construction is IM7 on that rod, so it has
good sensitivity and a little give."

Please folks, IM6, IM7, IM8 materials, made by the Hexcel Corporation have
not been produced in over 10 years. The labels rods manufacturers are
putting on rods, such as IM6, IM7, and IM8 are just that, LABELS. They are
MEANINGLESS! A rod identified as IM8 is not better or worse than one
identified as an IM6, because these identifiers are not identifying
anything, they are MEANINGLESS!

Modulus ratings by themselves tell you very little to nothing about the
rod's overall construction, the material, and its quality. A manufacturer
can tell you they are using 58-Million Modulus material. Ok, what does that
say about the quality of that material used or the quality of the rod, or
its sensitivity. Absolutely Nothing! Now, if the rod said 54 or even
33-million Hexcel Corporation's Hercules fibers material used, at least you
would know the raw graphite (really known as pan carbon fiber) was top
notch.

But even then, you don't really know, because G.Loomis is known to sell
their rejected materials to other rod manufacturers. Now what does that say
about labels and identifiers, because Hexcel's Hercules fibers is the
standard all other companies strive to match. So, G.Loomis rejects a batch
of Hexcel's material, and then sells this rejected material to another rod
company who can now say they are using Hexcel's Hercules fiber without
lying. Rejected material, but the legal right to say they are using the
world's best material.

High end rods cost so much, because the companies or individuals producing
them have very high quality standards, which means they pay more for all the
raw materials, and spend a great deal of money developing a rod series (R&D)
to ensure the rod will perform well for years to come.

--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[\The Shadow\]

Thanks Craig, you just did a huge favor to legitimate custom rod builders.

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"Craig Baugher" > wrote in message
news:m%48c.78065$Cb.1017352@attbi_s51...
> I.F. wrote: "The Clarus is a decent rod and will give good service. The
> graphite material used in the construction is IM7 on that rod, so it has
> good sensitivity and a little give."
>
> Please folks, IM6, IM7, IM8 materials, made by the Hexcel Corporation have
> not been produced in over 10 years. The labels rods manufacturers are
> putting on rods, such as IM6, IM7, and IM8 are just that, LABELS. They
are
> MEANINGLESS! A rod identified as IM8 is not better or worse than one
> identified as an IM6, because these identifiers are not identifying
> anything, they are MEANINGLESS!
>
> Modulus ratings by themselves tell you very little to nothing about the
> rod's overall construction, the material, and its quality. A manufacturer
> can tell you they are using 58-Million Modulus material. Ok, what does
that
> say about the quality of that material used or the quality of the rod, or
> its sensitivity. Absolutely Nothing! Now, if the rod said 54 or even
> 33-million Hexcel Corporation's Hercules fibers material used, at least
you
> would know the raw graphite (really known as pan carbon fiber) was top
> notch.
>
> But even then, you don't really know, because G.Loomis is known to sell
> their rejected materials to other rod manufacturers. Now what does that
say
> about labels and identifiers, because Hexcel's Hercules fibers is the
> standard all other companies strive to match. So, G.Loomis rejects a
batch
> of Hexcel's material, and then sells this rejected material to another
rod
> company who can now say they are using Hexcel's Hercules fiber without
> lying. Rejected material, but the legal right to say they are using the
> world's best material.
>
> High end rods cost so much, because the companies or individuals producing
> them have very high quality standards, which means they pay more for all
the
> raw materials, and spend a great deal of money developing a rod series
(R&D)
> to ensure the rod will perform well for years to come.
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[Illinois Fisherman]

Well then, by who's rating can you justify any materials used in any rod. To
me the IM rating indicates how much more Graphite being used in the blank.
The IM6 material has less graphite and is more flexible, softer and more
forgiving, than an IM8 material. The IM6 Rating to me means that it will not
break as easily as the IM8.

Personally, I don't believe that a $250.00 rod that just catches Bass is the
answer to catching fish. Then again I go for Musky, Pike, Walleye, Bass,
Cats, and Carp. Include stripers and lake trout. I find that no one rod
catches all types of fish. I need rods that I do not have to coddle. If all
you fish for in life is Bass you may have tunnel vision about fishing.

I read all the tournament wins etc. I don't see to many G. Loomis rods
mentioned, seems the Pro's use there sponsors product and still manage to
win, imagine that they win despite having inferior rods. No offense to those
who make rods for a living. I know you guys put your heart in everything you
make.

Sometimes Craig and his "I can't fish without a G. Loomis and neither can
you attitude" is just too much.


"Craig Baugher" > wrote in message
news:m%48c.78065$Cb.1017352@attbi_s51...
> I.F. wrote: "The Clarus is a decent rod and will give good service. The
> graphite material used in the construction is IM7 on that rod, so it has
> good sensitivity and a little give."
>
> Please folks, IM6, IM7, IM8 materials, made by the Hexcel Corporation have
> not been produced in over 10 years. The labels rods manufacturers are
> putting on rods, such as IM6, IM7, and IM8 are just that, LABELS. They
are
> MEANINGLESS! A rod identified as IM8 is not better or worse than one
> identified as an IM6, because these identifiers are not identifying
> anything, they are MEANINGLESS!
>
> Modulus ratings by themselves tell you very little to nothing about the
> rod's overall construction, the material, and its quality. A manufacturer
> can tell you they are using 58-Million Modulus material. Ok, what does
that
> say about the quality of that material used or the quality of the rod, or
> its sensitivity. Absolutely Nothing! Now, if the rod said 54 or even
> 33-million Hexcel Corporation's Hercules fibers material used, at least
you
> would know the raw graphite (really known as pan carbon fiber) was top
> notch.
>
> But even then, you don't really know, because G.Loomis is known to sell
> their rejected materials to other rod manufacturers. Now what does that
say
> about labels and identifiers, because Hexcel's Hercules fibers is the
> standard all other companies strive to match. So, G.Loomis rejects a
batch
> of Hexcel's material, and then sells this rejected material to another
rod
> company who can now say they are using Hexcel's Hercules fiber without
> lying. Rejected material, but the legal right to say they are using the
> world's best material.
>
> High end rods cost so much, because the companies or individuals producing
> them have very high quality standards, which means they pay more for all
the
> raw materials, and spend a great deal of money developing a rod series
(R&D)
> to ensure the rod will perform well for years to come.
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[\The Shadow\]

It's not the name behind the blank that matters. Rather it is the technology
that goes into the blank that makes the difference. G. Loomis production
rods are really no better than any other production rod. I don't care what
any mass
manufacturer tries to sell you with their hype. If you are producing
thousands of rods you are cutting corners. It's the only way they can sell a
rod for the price they do.

They can try to tell you that they spine check blanks, but in reality they
"might" check one in a hundred. As for aligning guides to the spine, forget
it. If you want to fish a rod that was built for your specific fishing needs
then spend the money, find a rodbuilder in your area. And you
will see & "feel" the advantages of a custom built rod.

JMHO! Course opinions are like! Well you all know the rest.

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"Illinois Fisherman" > wrote in message
om...
> Well then, by who's rating can you justify any materials used in any rod.
To
> me the IM rating indicates how much more Graphite being used in the blank.
> The IM6 material has less graphite and is more flexible, softer and more
> forgiving, than an IM8 material. The IM6 Rating to me means that it will
not
> break as easily as the IM8.
>
> Personally, I don't believe that a $250.00 rod that just catches Bass is
the
> answer to catching fish. Then again I go for Musky, Pike, Walleye, Bass,
> Cats, and Carp. Include stripers and lake trout. I find that no one rod
> catches all types of fish. I need rods that I do not have to coddle. If
all
> you fish for in life is Bass you may have tunnel vision about fishing.
>
> I read all the tournament wins etc. I don't see to many G. Loomis rods
> mentioned, seems the Pro's use there sponsors product and still manage to
> win, imagine that they win despite having inferior rods. No offense to
those
> who make rods for a living. I know you guys put your heart in everything
you
> make.
>
> Sometimes Craig and his "I can't fish without a G. Loomis and neither can
> you attitude" is just too much.
>
>
> "Craig Baugher" > wrote in message
> news:m%48c.78065$Cb.1017352@attbi_s51...
> > I.F. wrote: "The Clarus is a decent rod and will give good service. The
> > graphite material used in the construction is IM7 on that rod, so it has
> > good sensitivity and a little give."
> >
> > Please folks, IM6, IM7, IM8 materials, made by the Hexcel Corporation
have
> > not been produced in over 10 years. The labels rods manufacturers are
> > putting on rods, such as IM6, IM7, and IM8 are just that, LABELS. They
> are
> > MEANINGLESS! A rod identified as IM8 is not better or worse than one
> > identified as an IM6, because these identifiers are not identifying
> > anything, they are MEANINGLESS!
> >
> > Modulus ratings by themselves tell you very little to nothing about the
> > rod's overall construction, the material, and its quality. A
manufacturer
> > can tell you they are using 58-Million Modulus material. Ok, what does
> that
> > say about the quality of that material used or the quality of the rod,
or
> > its sensitivity. Absolutely Nothing! Now, if the rod said 54 or even
> > 33-million Hexcel Corporation's Hercules fibers material used, at least
> you
> > would know the raw graphite (really known as pan carbon fiber) was top
> > notch.
> >
> > But even then, you don't really know, because G.Loomis is known to sell
> > their rejected materials to other rod manufacturers. Now what does that
> say
> > about labels and identifiers, because Hexcel's Hercules fibers is the
> > standard all other companies strive to match. So, G.Loomis rejects a
> batch
> > of Hexcel's material, and then sells this rejected material to another
> rod
> > company who can now say they are using Hexcel's Hercules fiber without
> > lying. Rejected material, but the legal right to say they are using the
> > world's best material.
> >
> > High end rods cost so much, because the companies or individuals
producing
> > them have very high quality standards, which means they pay more for all
> the
> > raw materials, and spend a great deal of money developing a rod series
> (R&D)
> > to ensure the rod will perform well for years to come.
> >
> > --
> > Craig Baugher
> > Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
> >
> >
>
>

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

From: Rate these FUJI guides please.
1st quote--
From: (Craig=A0Baugher)
Fuji is a very popular brand, especially with production rod makers. But
they certainly are not the best brand, and their Aluminum Oxide and
Hardloy guides are prime examples of what not to buy. --quote

Re: A Quick Intro & Rod/Reel Question
2nd quote--
From: (Craig=A0Baugher)
High end rods cost so much, because the companies or individuals
producing them have very high quality standards.--quote


So what does this say about the G Loomis GL2 I was looking to get, it
has Aluminum Oxide guides. ;-)

[Craig Baugher]

I.F. Wrote "Well then, by who's rating can you justify any materials used in
any rod. To me the IM rating indicates how much more Graphite being used in
the blank. The IM6 material has less graphite and is more flexible, softer
and more forgiving, than an IM8 material. The IM6 Rating to me means that it
will not break as easily as the IM8"

You missed the point, and your statements above are not true. A lower
modulus rating does not make a blank softer, more flexible or forgiving. To
keep it simple, the higher the modulus rating the less material is needed to
achieve the same stiffness per weight, thus meaning the blank is lighter and
that is all. The action and power are determined by the design of the taper
and wrap. A rod made with graphite rated at 54-million modulus can be just
as flexible or more so than a rod made from graphite rated at 33-million
modulus.

In addition, a rod builder can enhance or dampen a blank's natural action
and power by the number, and method they use to wrap guides onto the blank.

Look I.F., I'm not picking on you, or even trying to persuade you to buy a
high end rod. I just want you and others to know the facts about modulus
ratings and manufacturers identifiers and not to put too much weigh on them
when deciding what rod you are going to buy. Nothing beats handling each
rod you want to consider for purchase and putting them through a series of
tests that includes making a cast or two with each before buying. I cannot
stress enough the importance of making a cast with the lure weigh or weighs
you intend to use with that rod, because a graphite rod will appear to be
much stiffer alone than it really is in use with a weighted lure, and no two
rods manufacturers design their rods the same. Thus, a MH, fast action to
one company may be a M, extra fast to another. Sorry, there are no set of
industrial standards, guidelines or fixed rules that govern how a rod is
rated or built.

Cool?
--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[Craig Baugher]

That Aluminum Oxide Guides Suck!!! Regardless of whose blanks they are
mounted on! Shame on Shimano/G.Loomis for using them!

--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[AJH]

The "rod expert" has spoken, I am taking all my sucky rods to the
dumpster and I am going to order custom rods with the finest hardware
known to man.. I will never allow a junk rod with Hardloy guides in my
boat again..

[Craig Baugher]

lol. . . . smart arse.

But you don't need to spend a fortune to get SiC guides, as BPS has the Rick
Clunn series on sale for $49.99 Making that rod a true bargain and one
that I would buy. I have fished this rod before and it is a nice rod for
the money ($100 at the time), so at 50% off, it would be a GREAT buy!

--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[Charles Summers]

See what I mean? ;-)

"Charles Summers" > wrote in message
...
> I agree that this is a very nice place to be
> when not on the water, but it's also like everywhere else in that you'll
> find some of us are not so nice, some of the time. That's ok though
because
> we're all human.
>

[go-bassn]

""The Shadow"" > wrote in message
...
> G. Loomis production
> rods are really no better than any other production rod...

C'mon now Dave, you don't really believe this, do you? You think a $300
Loomis is no different than a $49 Bionic Blade? That's like saying that one
custom builder's rods are just as good as the next custom guy's. You know
as well as I do that there are vast differences in quality, components &
craftsmanship involved.

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com

[go-bassn]

Craig, would you be kind enough to explain the difference between a high-end
Loomis & a BPS Bionic Blade rod of similar action & style? I'm not buying
Rodmaker's claim that all production rods are the same.

Thanks.

warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com

"Craig Baugher" > wrote in message
news:aZ88c.66462$JL2.922796@attbi_s03...
> I.F. Wrote "Well then, by who's rating can you justify any materials used
in
> any rod. To me the IM rating indicates how much more Graphite being used
in
> the blank. The IM6 material has less graphite and is more flexible, softer
> and more forgiving, than an IM8 material. The IM6 Rating to me means that
it
> will not break as easily as the IM8"
>
> You missed the point, and your statements above are not true. A lower
> modulus rating does not make a blank softer, more flexible or forgiving.
To
> keep it simple, the higher the modulus rating the less material is needed
to
> achieve the same stiffness per weight, thus meaning the blank is lighter
and
> that is all. The action and power are determined by the design of the
taper
> and wrap. A rod made with graphite rated at 54-million modulus can be
just
> as flexible or more so than a rod made from graphite rated at 33-million
> modulus.
>
> In addition, a rod builder can enhance or dampen a blank's natural action
> and power by the number, and method they use to wrap guides onto the
blank.
>
> Look I.F., I'm not picking on you, or even trying to persuade you to buy a
> high end rod. I just want you and others to know the facts about modulus
> ratings and manufacturers identifiers and not to put too much weigh on
them
> when deciding what rod you are going to buy. Nothing beats handling each
> rod you want to consider for purchase and putting them through a series of
> tests that includes making a cast or two with each before buying. I
cannot
> stress enough the importance of making a cast with the lure weigh or
weighs
> you intend to use with that rod, because a graphite rod will appear to be
> much stiffer alone than it really is in use with a weighted lure, and no
two
> rods manufacturers design their rods the same. Thus, a MH, fast action to
> one company may be a M, extra fast to another. Sorry, there are no set of
> industrial standards, guidelines or fixed rules that govern how a rod is
> rated or built.
>
> Cool?
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[\The Shadow\]

If you will just read the description of the rods you will for the most part
find that they use the same components . Surely you can't believe that they
have one grade of blank for a $49.00 Rick Clunn rod and another grade of
blank for a rod that they have a $270.00 price tag on.

Start by looking at the reelseat , "all" manufactured rods
use the same cheap reelseat. Doesn't matter if it is a Fuji.
I quit using those nasty locking hoods eight yrs.ago.It goes the same with
all of the components. They buy the cheapest they can at the best price they
can get. Whereas all rodbuilders I know but only 1st quality cork
grips,reelseats , etc.

Again, when producing thousands of rods a week , you cannot afford the
luxury of checking the spine on each blank . Time is money, the same goes
for correctly aligning guides in reference to the spine. The most common
trick of the mass producer is when they have a blank with a hook in it ,they
simply put the guides at 90 degrees to the bow. The weight of the guides
offsets the bow and will help straighten the blank. What you wind up with is
a rod that corkscrews. A real pleasure to fish with.

And technically custom builders use the same checks and balances when
building their rods. So yes technically they
will be close to the same. But where custom builders
differ is what they do "AFTER" they assembled the most perfect rod they can.
It is the personalization of the rod which helps to make it uniquely one
persons. And that you can't always put a dollar value.

Do I expect you to believe any of this Warren, maybe when pigs sprout wings
!

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"go-bassn" > wrote in message
...
> ""The Shadow"" > wrote in message
> ...
> > G. Loomis production
> > rods are really no better than any other production rod...
>
> C'mon now Dave, you don't really believe this, do you? You think a $300
> Loomis is no different than a $49 Bionic Blade? That's like saying that
one
> custom builder's rods are just as good as the next custom guy's. You know
> as well as I do that there are vast differences in quality, components &
> craftsmanship involved.
>
> Warren
> --
> http://www.warrenwolk.com
>
>
>
>

[Shawn]

The Clarus, Compre, or the Guide Series from Gander Mountain will be more
than adequate, JP. Either will suit you just fine and spinning gear is
certainly easier to cast in tight quarters. One thing that concerns me is
the heavy vegetation - it can get nasty 'round here in shallow waters, and
that creates a whole new set of problems/questions:

Remember folks, he's fishing from shore with limited room to maneuver - when
that fish dives he'll have to bring a TON of salad in with him. A MH/H rod
and a super line is in order, right?

Maybe not. That heavy action rod limits casting when you're perched beneath
the trees and within the bush. The limber tip on a M rod sure makes
flip/skip casting easier to control (as it'll take less effort), but it
might not have enough backbone to bring 'em in.

A lot depends upon what the preferred presentation(s) is, too.

JP, son, ya might consider two rigs.

-- Shawn


"J.P." > wrote in message
...
> I'm familiar with spinning gear and feel that it would best fit my needs
at
> this time. I suppose I should have been more specific with my post. My
> apologies.
>
> J.P.
>
> "AJH" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Do you want a spinning or a baitcasting outfit?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[go-bassn]

Ah, that helps me understand why a guy can order a Loomis blank & get
another type instead, because they're exactly the same eh? The
personalization makes all the difference I guess.

Gotcha.

Warren

""The Shadow"" > wrote in message
...
> If you will just read the description of the rods you will for the most
part
> find that they use the same components . Surely you can't believe that
they
> have one grade of blank for a $49.00 Rick Clunn rod and another grade of
> blank for a rod that they have a $270.00 price tag on.
>
> Start by looking at the reelseat , "all" manufactured rods
> use the same cheap reelseat. Doesn't matter if it is a Fuji.
> I quit using those nasty locking hoods eight yrs.ago.It goes the same with
> all of the components. They buy the cheapest they can at the best price
they
> can get. Whereas all rodbuilders I know but only 1st quality cork
> grips,reelseats , etc.
>
> Again, when producing thousands of rods a week , you cannot afford the
> luxury of checking the spine on each blank . Time is money, the same goes
> for correctly aligning guides in reference to the spine. The most common
> trick of the mass producer is when they have a blank with a hook in it
,they
> simply put the guides at 90 degrees to the bow. The weight of the guides
> offsets the bow and will help straighten the blank. What you wind up with
is
> a rod that corkscrews. A real pleasure to fish with.
>
> And technically custom builders use the same checks and balances when
> building their rods. So yes technically they
> will be close to the same. But where custom builders
> differ is what they do "AFTER" they assembled the most perfect rod they
can.
> It is the personalization of the rod which helps to make it uniquely one
> persons. And that you can't always put a dollar value.
>
> Do I expect you to believe any of this Warren, maybe when pigs sprout
wings
> !
>
> --
> "The Shadow"
> Millennium Rods
> "go-bassn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > ""The Shadow"" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > G. Loomis production
> > > rods are really no better than any other production rod...
> >
> > C'mon now Dave, you don't really believe this, do you? You think a $300
> > Loomis is no different than a $49 Bionic Blade? That's like saying that
> one
> > custom builder's rods are just as good as the next custom guy's. You
know
> > as well as I do that there are vast differences in quality, components &
> > craftsmanship involved.
> >
> > Warren
> > --
> > http://www.warrenwolk.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[KurtB]

Welcome Jake!
Work brings me up to the Madison area every so often and the fishing
in some of the smaller ponds can be a ton of fun.

But I think for a $120 spinning combo, the debate of "are upper end
production rods as good as custom or mid price production rods" is a
little OT. But at you have probably already seen, we sometimes get
off topic. Keep in mind it is all fun (and unlike other boards/groups
we try to keep the personal attacks to a minimum). And some of the
best information that I have weaned from this group have come from
topics that took a tangent from the original course.

My only advise would be to shop the combo's from Bass Pro or Cabela's.
If you see one that you think looks good, let us know, and we will
give our opinion (good and bad).

Kurt

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:58:21 GMT, "Craig Baugher" >
wrote:

>lol. . . . smart arse.
>
>But you don't need to spend a fortune to get SiC guides, as BPS has the Rick
>Clunn series on sale for $49.99 Making that rod a true bargain and one
>that I would buy. I have fished this rod before and it is a nice rod for
>the money ($100 at the time), so at 50% off, it would be a GREAT buy!

[Craig Baugher]

Oh, Dave knows there is a major difference, for he buys his blanks based on
their quality. He also knows that while a company like St. Croix may use
the same 45-Million Modulus graphite on two different rod series, that each
has its own unique properties based on the other materials used to make the
blank, like its scrim system, the cut, warp, mandrel taper, and curing
process.

Dave is an intelligent individual and knows that the strain rate of a high
end rod is what separates it from its lower quality competitors. He knows a
great deal of engineering goes into perfecting that strain rate, because it
doesn't come naturally from the pan carbon fiber, and that getting all the
right materials together to ensure the blank comes out perfect in the curing
process requires a great deal of R&D (which is about 75% of the cost the
average angler is paying for).

Now what Dave is having a hard time getting his arms around is the idea that
a production rod manufacturer Today, can spline their rods on the fly.
Splining a finished blank is quite easy and a very simple process. What
surprises me, is that it took all this time before they developed the
automatic equipment to do it.

But no matter how good production rod manufacturers get building their rods,
Dave and other custom rod builders never have to worry. Because what makes
a custom rod a step above all the rest is all the fine detail and care they
put into a rod that makes it special. It is the same in all industries.
What would you rather own, a new Porsche 911 Turbo, or a custom chopped 32
Ford 3-window coupe. That Porsche is a top of the line production vehicle,
that is excellent in every way. Men drool in its presents. But can it
really compete with a fine detailed custom 32 Ford coupe. As fine as that
Porsche is, as much as I would love to own it, I would rather own Ford
coupe.

--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[\The Shadow\]

Warren , if you'd simply read the descriptions you'd notice that the model
numbers are the same. An IMX or Slate blank is still an IMX no matter what
the price tag that they put on it. The only real difference might be in the
guides that they use on a rod. SIC guides will add about $30.00 to a rod
over alconite. But not where large manufacturers are concerned since they
buy guides by the 100's of thousands.

So "you" tell me Warren , how do they "justify"
their different price structures. How can they sell a "Rick Clunn" branded
model for X amount of dollars and advertise the same rod component for
component at a price that is several hundred dollars more just a few pages
further on in a catalog. Where is the justification in that.

It's HYPE Warren, plain and simply. Advertising ploys used to lure the
unsuspecting into buying their rods. Where is the hype in a custom built
rod(please notice that I did not refer to any particular custom)! There is
no hype,
you are told up front exactly what you can expect as far as performance out
of a given rod. If you wish to change the performance of a model ,you are
given options on how to best achieve the results that you desire.

Can you get this from a store or catalog bought rod. I think not! Your lucky
if you get 1/2 the expected performance that you thought you'd get.And yet
with some of these rods you pay as if it were a custom.



--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"go-bassn" > wrote in message
...
> Ah, that helps me understand why a guy can order a Loomis blank & get
> another type instead, because they're exactly the same eh? The
> personalization makes all the difference I guess.
>
> Gotcha.
>
> Warren
>
> ""The Shadow"" > wrote in message
> ...
> > If you will just read the description of the rods you will for the most
> part
> > find that they use the same components . Surely you can't believe that
> they
> > have one grade of blank for a $49.00 Rick Clunn rod and another grade of
> > blank for a rod that they have a $270.00 price tag on.
> >
> > Start by looking at the reelseat , "all" manufactured rods
> > use the same cheap reelseat. Doesn't matter if it is a Fuji.
> > I quit using those nasty locking hoods eight yrs.ago.It goes the same
with
> > all of the components. They buy the cheapest they can at the best price
> they
> > can get. Whereas all rodbuilders I know but only 1st quality cork
> > grips,reelseats , etc.
> >
> > Again, when producing thousands of rods a week , you cannot afford the
> > luxury of checking the spine on each blank . Time is money, the same
goes
> > for correctly aligning guides in reference to the spine. The most common
> > trick of the mass producer is when they have a blank with a hook in it
> ,they
> > simply put the guides at 90 degrees to the bow. The weight of the guides
> > offsets the bow and will help straighten the blank. What you wind up
with
> is
> > a rod that corkscrews. A real pleasure to fish with.
> >
> > And technically custom builders use the same checks and balances when
> > building their rods. So yes technically they
> > will be close to the same. But where custom builders
> > differ is what they do "AFTER" they assembled the most perfect rod they
> can.
> > It is the personalization of the rod which helps to make it uniquely one
> > persons. And that you can't always put a dollar value.
> >
> > Do I expect you to believe any of this Warren, maybe when pigs sprout
> wings
> > !
> >
> > --
> > "The Shadow"
> > Millennium Rods
> > "go-bassn" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > ""The Shadow"" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > G. Loomis production
> > > > rods are really no better than any other production rod...
> > >
> > > C'mon now Dave, you don't really believe this, do you? You think a
$300
> > > Loomis is no different than a $49 Bionic Blade? That's like saying
that
> > one
> > > custom builder's rods are just as good as the next custom guy's. You
> know
> > > as well as I do that there are vast differences in quality, components
&
> > > craftsmanship involved.
> > >
> > > Warren
> > > --
> > > http://www.warrenwolk.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[go-bassn]

Then why does Dave keep saying it's all HYPE???

WW
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/



"Craig Baugher" > wrote in message
news:lDr8c.85544$1p.1285816@attbi_s54...
> Oh, Dave knows there is a major difference, for he buys his blanks based
on
> their quality. He also knows that while a company like St. Croix may use
> the same 45-Million Modulus graphite on two different rod series, that
each
> has its own unique properties based on the other materials used to make
the
> blank, like its scrim system, the cut, warp, mandrel taper, and curing
> process.
>
> Dave is an intelligent individual and knows that the strain rate of a high
> end rod is what separates it from its lower quality competitors. He knows
a
> great deal of engineering goes into perfecting that strain rate, because
it
> doesn't come naturally from the pan carbon fiber, and that getting all the
> right materials together to ensure the blank comes out perfect in the
curing
> process requires a great deal of R&D (which is about 75% of the cost the
> average angler is paying for).
>
> Now what Dave is having a hard time getting his arms around is the idea
that
> a production rod manufacturer Today, can spline their rods on the fly.
> Splining a finished blank is quite easy and a very simple process. What
> surprises me, is that it took all this time before they developed the
> automatic equipment to do it.
>
> But no matter how good production rod manufacturers get building their
rods,
> Dave and other custom rod builders never have to worry. Because what
makes
> a custom rod a step above all the rest is all the fine detail and care
they
> put into a rod that makes it special. It is the same in all industries.
> What would you rather own, a new Porsche 911 Turbo, or a custom chopped 32
> Ford 3-window coupe. That Porsche is a top of the line production
vehicle,
> that is excellent in every way. Men drool in its presents. But can it
> really compete with a fine detailed custom 32 Ford coupe. As fine as that
> Porsche is, as much as I would love to own it, I would rather own Ford
> coupe.
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[Huck Palmatier]

.....where've you been?

"Shawn" > wrote in message
...
> The Clarus, Compre, or the Guide Series from Gander Mountain will be more
> than adequate, JP. Either will suit you just fine and spinning gear is
> certainly easier to cast in tight quarters. One thing that concerns me is
> the heavy vegetation - it can get nasty 'round here in shallow waters, and
> that creates a whole new set of problems/questions:
>
> Remember folks, he's fishing from shore with limited room to maneuver -
when
> that fish dives he'll have to bring a TON of salad in with him. A MH/H rod
> and a super line is in order, right?
>
> Maybe not. That heavy action rod limits casting when you're perched
beneath
> the trees and within the bush. The limber tip on a M rod sure makes
> flip/skip casting easier to control (as it'll take less effort), but it
> might not have enough backbone to bring 'em in.
>
> A lot depends upon what the preferred presentation(s) is, too.
>
> JP, son, ya might consider two rigs.
>
> -- Shawn
>
>
> "J.P." > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm familiar with spinning gear and feel that it would best fit my needs
> at
> > this time. I suppose I should have been more specific with my post. My
> > apologies.
> >
> > J.P.
> >
> > "AJH" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Do you want a spinning or a baitcasting outfit?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

[steve burison]

Craig
There you go confusing me with facts.


Steve
"Craig Baugher" > wrote in message
news:m%48c.78065$Cb.1017352@attbi_s51...
> I.F. wrote: "The Clarus is a decent rod and will give good service. The
> graphite material used in the construction is IM7 on that rod, so it has
> good sensitivity and a little give."
>
> Please folks, IM6, IM7, IM8 materials, made by the Hexcel Corporation have
> not been produced in over 10 years. The labels rods manufacturers are
> putting on rods, such as IM6, IM7, and IM8 are just that, LABELS. They
are
> MEANINGLESS! A rod identified as IM8 is not better or worse than one
> identified as an IM6, because these identifiers are not identifying
> anything, they are MEANINGLESS!
>
> Modulus ratings by themselves tell you very little to nothing about the
> rod's overall construction, the material, and its quality. A manufacturer
> can tell you they are using 58-Million Modulus material. Ok, what does
that
> say about the quality of that material used or the quality of the rod, or
> its sensitivity. Absolutely Nothing! Now, if the rod said 54 or even
> 33-million Hexcel Corporation's Hercules fibers material used, at least
you
> would know the raw graphite (really known as pan carbon fiber) was top
> notch.
>
> But even then, you don't really know, because G.Loomis is known to sell
> their rejected materials to other rod manufacturers. Now what does that
say
> about labels and identifiers, because Hexcel's Hercules fibers is the
> standard all other companies strive to match. So, G.Loomis rejects a
batch
> of Hexcel's material, and then sells this rejected material to another
rod
> company who can now say they are using Hexcel's Hercules fiber without
> lying. Rejected material, but the legal right to say they are using the
> world's best material.
>
> High end rods cost so much, because the companies or individuals producing
> them have very high quality standards, which means they pay more for all
the
> raw materials, and spend a great deal of money developing a rod series
(R&D)
> to ensure the rod will perform well for years to come.
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[Craig Baugher]

Sorry. . . . . .

--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[Charles Summers]

Up in the frozen Tundra?


"Huck Palmatier" > wrote in message
news:0Mx8c.11541$Ft.7186@lakeread02...
> ....where've you been?
>
> "Shawn" > wrote in message
> ...

[\The Shadow\]

Yer right about one thing for sure Craig . And that is that no-one can
convince me that mass producers go to the same lengths that a custom builder
does. And that includes correctly locating the "spine" on each blank they
use. It's just not cost effective. Especially since they know that the
average angler that buys there rods would not know the difference.

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"Craig Baugher" > wrote in message
news:lDr8c.85544$1p.1285816@attbi_s54...
> Oh, Dave knows there is a major difference, for he buys his blanks based
on
> their quality. He also knows that while a company like St. Croix may use
> the same 45-Million Modulus graphite on two different rod series, that
each
> has its own unique properties based on the other materials used to make
the
> blank, like its scrim system, the cut, warp, mandrel taper, and curing
> process.
>
> Dave is an intelligent individual and knows that the strain rate of a high
> end rod is what separates it from its lower quality competitors. He knows
a
> great deal of engineering goes into perfecting that strain rate, because
it
> doesn't come naturally from the pan carbon fiber, and that getting all the
> right materials together to ensure the blank comes out perfect in the
curing
> process requires a great deal of R&D (which is about 75% of the cost the
> average angler is paying for).
>
> Now what Dave is having a hard time getting his arms around is the idea
that
> a production rod manufacturer Today, can spline their rods on the fly.
> Splining a finished blank is quite easy and a very simple process. What
> surprises me, is that it took all this time before they developed the
> automatic equipment to do it.
>
> But no matter how good production rod manufacturers get building their
rods,
> Dave and other custom rod builders never have to worry. Because what
makes
> a custom rod a step above all the rest is all the fine detail and care
they
> put into a rod that makes it special. It is the same in all industries.
> What would you rather own, a new Porsche 911 Turbo, or a custom chopped 32
> Ford 3-window coupe. That Porsche is a top of the line production
vehicle,
> that is excellent in every way. Men drool in its presents. But can it
> really compete with a fine detailed custom 32 Ford coupe. As fine as that
> Porsche is, as much as I would love to own it, I would rather own Ford
> coupe.
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[Shawn]

"Huck Palmatier" wrote ...
> ....where've you been?
>

I've been chasing down cops and running from women...or...errr..

[go-bassn]

IS THAT YOU KEMMER!?!?

WW

"Shawn" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Huck Palmatier" wrote ...
> > ....where've you been?
> >
>
> I've been chasing down cops and running from women...or...errr..

[Shawn]

I was me the last time I checked....lemme check again....(zip)... yep! I'm
still me!

I just drop in every now and then to see if you kids are behaving.

-- Shawn


"go-bassn" > wrote in message
...
> IS THAT YOU KEMMER!?!?
>
> WW
>
> "Shawn" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Huck Palmatier" wrote ...
> > > ....where've you been?
> > >
> >
> > I've been chasing down cops and running from women...or...errr..
>
>