SMALL LAKE FISHING SAGA

[Lionel F. Stevenson]

I'm currently fishing in a small lake, about 1/4 mile diameter,(the trout
season is over in the streams & rivers.). It has 3 springs that feed it, I'm
told, and it is 35 ft. deep somewhere in the middle, I've found it not
deeper than 20 feet). I haven't found any inlet or outlet yet.

It was stocked with 4800 rainbow trout in the fall of 2004. I've caught a 2
eaters since Sept. 16, (fishing once a week), but I'm told that there are
some very large trout in the lake, (maybe 20 lb). I've tried everything I
know at this point, (which may be not much). No one is catching much there,
those that do are fishing worms.

My last adventure there was a beautiful afternoon, and I fished until dark.

Nuthin' happenin'.

I tried a lot of flies, and even a Rapala minnow lure. A fisherman in the
fishing store told me he had caught lots of fish there by trolling it.

There are a couple of rafts in the lake for summer swimmers. No one swimming
now. I figured there should be trout under those rafts.
I rowed near one of them- the water was about 10 feet deep. I cast a lot,
nothing.

I had a tandem on- a Parmachene Belle 12 with a Royal Coachman streamer 8
behind it. Nothing.

Then a fish jumped right beside the boat, dispelling my fears that the boat
was scaring them. I had a handful of line, and I flipped the tandem
immediately near where the fish had showed.

It took the fly, but I had so much slack that I didn't set the hook hard
enough, and the fish started away with the fly, but gave a shake and was
loose. It was maybe a 1-1/2 lb fish, by the feel of it.

So, I'm encouraged. My next outing, I will wait for a while after anchoring,
and then fish the Bead Head Hare's Ear.

The only fish I've caught in this lake were fish that showed just before I
caught them. Very few fish show on the surface of the lake.

If anyone has a reccommendation, I'd be glad to hear it. The season ends
Nov. 15.

-- Lionel
The more I see of people, the better I like fish.

[Mike Connor]

"Lionel F. Stevenson" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
<SNIP>
> The only fish I've caught in this lake were fish that showed just before I
> caught them. Very few fish show on the surface of the lake.
>
> If anyone has a reccommendation, I'd be glad to hear it. The season ends
> Nov. 15.
>
> -- Lionel
> The more I see of people, the better I like fish.

Some food forms are common to all lakes and ponds. On a strange pond, where
you don´t know what the fish are taking, one of the best tactics is to fish
a woolly bugger at varying depths. They are often very successful when
crawled along the bottom.

One might also use a chironomid imitation on a strike indicator.

How many fish were originally stocked does not necessarily reflect the
current population density, indeed, it almost certainly does not.
Furthermore, if there are indeed 2o lb fish in the lake, then they feed on
fish. There is nothing else large enough or in sufficient abundance to
support them. Such fish will fairly quickly decimate stocks of fish.

If your intention is to catch one of these lunkers, assuming they do
actually exist, then you are probably best advised to fish a very large
streamer, 8" long or larger, and trail ( often incorrectly referred to as
"Trolling"), it behind the boat.

TL
MC

[Jeff Taylor]

"Lionel F. Stevenson" > wrote in message
...

> If anyone has a reccommendation, I'd be glad to hear it. The season ends
> Nov. 15.
>

Lionel,

You might try a fast sink line. Find out what the sink rate is on the line,
cast it out and count till the line is at 5 ft. and start stripping it back.
Do this at 5, 10, 15, & 20ft. depths. I would try a green or brown woolly
bugger or a bk. leach... Many times on local lakes, when nothing else is
working this strategy will...

If you know where the springs are located, I would work those areas, many
times the trout will hold in those areas for cooler better oxygenated
water...

Good luck,
JT

[Mike Connor]

"Jeff Taylor" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
>
> "Lionel F. Stevenson" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> If anyone has a reccommendation, I'd be glad to hear it. The season ends
>> Nov. 15.
>>
>
> Lionel,
>
> You might try a fast sink line. Find out what the sink rate is on the
> line, cast it out and count till the line is at 5 ft. and start stripping
> it back. Do this at 5, 10, 15, & 20ft. depths. I would try a green or
> brown woolly bugger or a bk. leach... Many times on local lakes, when
> nothing else is working this strategy will...
>
> If you know where the springs are located, I would work those areas, many
> times the trout will hold in those areas for cooler better oxygenated
> water...
>
> Good luck,
> JT
>
>

Spring water contains very little dissolved oxygen.

TL
MC

[Lionel F. Stevenson]

in article , Mike Connor at
wrote on 10/21/05 12:10 PM:

>
> "Lionel F. Stevenson" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> ...
> <SNIP>
>> The only fish I've caught in this lake were fish that showed just before I
>> caught them. Very few fish show on the surface of the lake.
>>
>> If anyone has a reccommendation, I'd be glad to hear it. The season ends
>> Nov. 15.
>>
>> -- Lionel
>> The more I see of people, the better I like fish.
>
> Some food forms are common to all lakes and ponds. On a strange pond, where
> you don´t know what the fish are taking, one of the best tactics is to fish
> a woolly bugger at varying depths. They are often very successful when
> crawled along the bottom.
>
> One might also use a chironomid imitation on a strike indicator.
>
> How many fish were originally stocked does not necessarily reflect the
> current population density, indeed, it almost certainly does not.
> Furthermore, if there are indeed 2o lb fish in the lake, then they feed on
> fish. There is nothing else large enough or in sufficient abundance to
> support them. Such fish will fairly quickly decimate stocks of fish.
>
> If your intention is to catch one of these lunkers, assuming they do
> actually exist, then you are probably best advised to fish a very large
> streamer, 8" long or larger, and trail ( often incorrectly referred to as
> "Trolling"), it behind the boat.
>
> TL
> MC
>
>
>
http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/flies/chironomid/pupa.phtml


-- Lionel
The more I see of people, the better I like fish.

[BJ Conner]

Mike Connor wrote:
> "Jeff Taylor" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> ...
> >
> > "Lionel F. Stevenson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >> If anyone has a reccommendation, I'd be glad to hear it. The season ends
> >> Nov. 15.
> >>
> >
> > Lionel,
> >
> > You might try a fast sink line. Find out what the sink rate is on the
> > line, cast it out and count till the line is at 5 ft. and start stripping
> > it back. Do this at 5, 10, 15, & 20ft. depths. I would try a green or
> > brown woolly bugger or a bk. leach... Many times on local lakes, when
> > nothing else is working this strategy will...
> >
> > If you know where the springs are located, I would work those areas, many
> > times the trout will hold in those areas for cooler better oxygenated
> > water...
> >
> > Good luck,
> > JT
> >
> >
>
> Spring water contains very little dissolved oxygen.
>
> TL
> MC

Deja vu, we've ahd this discussion before. Some springs may have
significant disolved oxygen. The ones in the cascades tend to have
enough for fish to live in. The Fall River and the MacKinzie both
originate from huge springs. I have never seen a fish at the "blue
hole" where the MacKinzie originates but i have seen them in Fall River
spring.
You could argue these are not springs but the outlet to underground
rivers. The water flows through lava formations. If you filled your
favorite stream with lava stones such as used in a BarBQue it would be
what most of these are.

If he really wants to catch the trout to eat I recommend an inflated
night crawler about 2' above the bottom.

[Jeff Taylor]

"Mike Connor" > wrote in message
...

>> If you know where the springs are located, I would work those areas, many
>> times the trout will hold in those areas for cooler better oxygenated
>> water...
>>
>> Good luck,
>> JT
>
> Spring water contains very little dissolved oxygen.
>
> TL
> MC


Very true, however, during peak summer the lakes will reach temperatures on
the surface of 80 + degrees in the region I live. Water that is 80 degrees
will have much less dissolved oxygen that water that is at 50 degrees. To
my point, spring water will have much more oxygen due to it being cooler...
From 90 degrees to 45 degrees, the later will have as much as 60% more
oxygen.

JT

[Mike Connor]

"Jeff Taylor" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
<SNIP>
> Very true, however, during peak summer the lakes will reach temperatures
> on the surface of 80 + degrees in the region I live. Water that is 80
> degrees will have much less dissolved oxygen that water that is at 50
> degrees. To my point, spring water will have much more oxygen due to it
> being cooler... From 90 degrees to 45 degrees, the later will have as much
> as 60% more oxygen.
>
> JT

The temperature of the spring water is irrelevant with regard to the oxygen
content. It has no, or very little dissolved oxygen in it at all. It is only
oxygenated when it reaches the surface.

TL
MC

[Jeff Taylor]

"Mike Connor" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> The temperature of the spring water is irrelevant with regard to the
> oxygen content. It has no, or very little dissolved oxygen in it at all.
> It is only oxygenated when it reaches the surface.
>
> TL
> MC

I disagree...

The cooler spring water will carry more dissolved oxygen due to the
temperature of the water...

JT

The general rule for temperature and oxygen in water:
warm water contains less dissolved oxygen
than does cool water.
For example, water that is 90º F can only hold 7.4 mg/L of dissolved
oxygen (at saturation) while cooler water at 45º F can hold 11.9 mg/L, which
is about 60% more oxygen.

[Mike Connor]

"Jeff Taylor" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
<SNIP>
> I disagree...
>
> The cooler spring water will carry more dissolved oxygen due to the
> temperature of the water...
>
> JT
>
> The general rule for temperature and oxygen in water:
> warm water contains less dissolved oxygen
> than does cool water.
> For example, water that is 90º F can only hold 7.4 mg/L of dissolved
> oxygen (at saturation) while cooler water at 45º F can hold 11.9 mg/L,
> which is about 60% more oxygen.
>
>
>

Simply cooling water does not add any oxygen to it. If there is none there
to start with, the temperature is quite irrelevant.

TL
MC

[Lionel F. Stevenson]

in article , Lionel F. Stevenson at
wrote on 10/21/05 11:53 AM:

> I'm currently fishing in a small lake, about 1/4 mile diameter,(the trout
> season is over in the streams & rivers.). It has 3 springs that feed it, I'm
> told, and it is 35 ft. deep somewhere in the middle, I've found it not
> deeper than 20 feet). I haven't found any inlet or outlet yet.
>
> It was stocked with 4800 rainbow trout in the fall of 2004. I've caught a 2
> eaters since Sept. 16, (fishing once a week), but I'm told that there are
> some very large trout in the lake, (maybe 20 lb). I've tried everything I
> know at this point, (which may be not much). No one is catching much there,
> those that do are fishing worms.
>
> My last adventure there was a beautiful afternoon, and I fished until dark.
>
> Nuthin' happenin'.
>
> I tried a lot of flies, and even a Rapala minnow lure. A fisherman in the
> fishing store told me he had caught lots of fish there by trolling it.
>
> There are a couple of rafts in the lake for summer swimmers. No one swimming
> now. I figured there should be trout under those rafts.
> I rowed near one of them- the water was about 10 feet deep. I cast a lot,
> nothing.
>
> I had a tandem on- a Parmachene Belle 12 with a Royal Coachman streamer 8
> behind it. Nothing.
>
> Then a fish jumped right beside the boat, dispelling my fears that the boat
> was scaring them. I had a handful of line, and I flipped the tandem
> immediately near where the fish had showed.
>
> It took the fly, but I had so much slack that I didn't set the hook hard
> enough, and the fish started away with the fly, but gave a shake and was
> loose. It was maybe a 1-1/2 lb fish, by the feel of it.
>
> So, I'm encouraged. My next outing, I will wait for a while after anchoring,
> and then fish the Bead Head Hare's Ear.
>
> The only fish I've caught in this lake were fish that showed just before I
> caught them. Very few fish show on the surface of the lake.
>
> If anyone has a reccommendation, I'd be glad to hear it. The season ends
> Nov. 15.
>
> -- Lionel
> The more I see of people, the better I like fish.
>
OK,
I returned to the lake yesterday. About 2PM. The boat was full of water, and
I didn't feel like bailing. Fished (wading), till after 4.

I first tried a Hare's Ear and Pheasant Tail #14 nymph. Nuthin'.
There were 3 worm fishers nearby. Not a bite.

Gulls in the middle of the lake were flying after some kind of insect.

I put on 2 different midge larvae #20 or so. Nuthin'. A fish showed near the
fly, but wasn't going for mine. 2 other fish showed about 20 yards away.

I put on a Mickey Finn at the end, with a midge dropper. Nuthin'

Changed to sinking line. Mickey Finn. Nuthin'.
Noticed a bug hanging onto my net. It was a Water Boatman, about 1/4 inch
long. I know from previous research that the trout eat these, but I've never
seen an artificial like this.

Got ready to leave as I was very cold from standing in the water for a
couple hours. The wind dropped.

Took out the binocs. Out on the flat water, I could see quite a few dimples
on the water. I figger there were trout feeding on something just
subsurface.

I'll try again.

-- Lionel

[Tom Nakashima]

"Lionel F. Stevenson" > wrote in message
...
> in article , Lionel F. Stevenson at
..
>> It was stocked with 4800 rainbow trout in the fall of 2004. I've caught a
>> 2
>> eaters since Sept. 16, (fishing once a week), but I'm told that there are
>> some very large trout in the lake, (maybe 20 lb). I've tried everything I
>> know at this point, (which may be not much). No one is catching much
>> there,
>> those that do are fishing worms.

I think this would tell me the stocked rainbows are feeding near the bottom.
I haven't fished for stocked trout for over 25 years, just don't have the
interest.
-tom

[briansfly]

Jonathan Cook wrote:

> Tom Nakashima > wrote:
>
>
>>I haven't fished for stocked trout for over 25 years
>
>
> Are you sure?
>
> Jon.
> who finds it near impossible not to

:-)

......but, I ALWAYS fish for wild. Sometimes, err, a lot of the times,
those pesky planters just get in the way.

brians

[Wolfgang]

"briansfly" > wrote in message
news:DPaaf.3271$wb3.646@trnddc03...
> Jonathan Cook wrote:
>
>> Tom Nakashima > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I haven't fished for stocked trout for over 25 years
>>
>>
>> Are you sure?
>>
>> Jon.
>> who finds it near impossible not to
>
> :-)
>
> .....but, I ALWAYS fish for wild. Sometimes, err, a lot of the times,
> those pesky planters just get in the way.

Some people have trouble matching results to intentions. They learn.
Others never get beyond the trouble of distinguishing between them. They
teach. :)

Wolfgang

[Tom Nakashima]

"Wolfgang" > wrote in message
...
>
> "briansfly" > wrote in message
> news:DPaaf.3271$wb3.646@trnddc03...
>> Jonathan Cook wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Nakashima > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I haven't fished for stocked trout for over 25 years
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure?
>>>
>>> Jon.
>>> who finds it near impossible not to
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> .....but, I ALWAYS fish for wild. Sometimes, err, a lot of the times,
>> those pesky planters just get in the way.
>
> Some people have trouble matching results to intentions. They learn.
> Others never get beyond the trouble of distinguishing between them. They
> teach. :)
>
> Wolfgang

Agree with "to educate".
Difference between planted and stocked?

Years ago a lot of the California Streams were "planted", but that has
seized in 1971 when they introduced the Wild Trout Program (WTP) by the
California Fish & Game Commission...correct me if I'm wrong on the date. The
move was to protect both environmentally, and productivity the wild trout
lakes and streams in California.

The "stocked" trout are fish that are farmed raised and trucked in by the
thousands to the lakes regulated by the CF&G. There are also a few private
property owners who also stock their waters. I had once the privilege of
watching one of the trucks unload mass trout into one of the local lakes.
After the lake was stocked, the driver (who was also one of the persons who
raises the trout) said, "watch this", and he reached in a bag of feeding
pellets and threw them into the lake. The stocked trout made a beeline to
feed on the pellets. Then he turned to me and asked; "You eat these things?"
as he pulled the cigarette from his mouth and threw it on the ground dousing
it with his worn shoe. I was probably in more shock than the newly stocked
fish, and without looking up, I replied; "Not anymore".
-tom

[Lionel F. Stevenson]

in article , Tom Nakashima at
wrote on 11/3/05 11:02 AM:

>
> "Wolfgang" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "briansfly" > wrote in message
>> news:DPaaf.3271$wb3.646@trnddc03...
>>> Jonathan Cook wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Nakashima > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I haven't fished for stocked trout for over 25 years
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure?
>>>>
>>>> Jon.
>>>> who finds it near impossible not to
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> .....but, I ALWAYS fish for wild. Sometimes, err, a lot of the times,
>>> those pesky planters just get in the way.
>>
>> Some people have trouble matching results to intentions. They learn.
>> Others never get beyond the trouble of distinguishing between them. They
>> teach. :)
>>
>> Wolfgang
>
> Agree with "to educate".
> Difference between planted and stocked?
>
> Years ago a lot of the California Streams were "planted", but that has
> seized in 1971 when they introduced the Wild Trout Program (WTP) by the
> California Fish & Game Commission...correct me if I'm wrong on the date. The
> move was to protect both environmentally, and productivity the wild trout
> lakes and streams in California.
>
> The "stocked" trout are fish that are farmed raised and trucked in by the
> thousands to the lakes regulated by the CF&G. There are also a few private
> property owners who also stock their waters. I had once the privilege of
> watching one of the trucks unload mass trout into one of the local lakes.
> After the lake was stocked, the driver (who was also one of the persons who
> raises the trout) said, "watch this", and he reached in a bag of feeding
> pellets and threw them into the lake. The stocked trout made a beeline to
> feed on the pellets. Then he turned to me and asked; "You eat these things?"
> as he pulled the cigarette from his mouth and threw it on the ground dousing
> it with his worn shoe. I was probably in more shock than the newly stocked
> fish, and without looking up, I replied; "Not anymore".
> -tom
>
>
I prefer fishing in the wild, too.

Stocked fish that have been in the water for 6 months are basically wild.
They don't seem to remember pellet feeding, they fight well and they taste
good too.
I've tried chumming them with "Whiskas" cat bits, without any results.
-- Lionel

[Tom Nakashima]

"Lionel F. Stevenson" > wrote in message
...
> in article ,

> I prefer fishing in the wild, too.
>
> Stocked fish that have been in the water for 6 months are basically wild.
> They don't seem to remember pellet feeding, they fight well and they taste
> good too.
> I've tried chumming them with "Whiskas" cat bits, without any results.
> -- Lionel

I have found stocked trout have a flakey whitish color meat, while the
natural or wild trout have a reddish color to their meat, which is probably
due to their diet. There is a difference in the taste.
Here is a link that further describes:
http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fish_Boat/images/pages/qa/trout/color.htm
-tom

[Wayne Harrison]

"Lionel F. Stevenson" > wrote

> I've tried chumming them with "Whiskas" cat bits, without any results.>

this post has been up for almost 30 minutes, and nary a peep from
barnard--

somebody call stanley's 911!


wayno(after all, a decomposed body can be a health hazard)

[Mike Connor]

"Lionel F. Stevenson" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
<SNIP>
> I prefer fishing in the wild, too.
>
> Stocked fish that have been in the water for 6 months are basically wild.
> They don't seem to remember pellet feeding, they fight well and they taste
> good too.
> I've tried chumming them with "Whiskas" cat bits, without any results.
> -- Lionel
>
<SNIP>

Stocked fish will never be wild. The closest one can get, is by stocking
fry, or at most, fingerlings. Even these are not really truly wild, as they
usually come from limited gene pools.

Under natural conditions, the massive mortality rate ensures that only the
fittest and most suited to the environment fish survive. This is not the
case with hatchery fish.

"Chumming" for trout is considered unsporting at best, and is also illegal
in many places. Using "Whiskas", will usually attract more eels and catfish,
than trout. If you wish to "chum" for trout in freshwater, then a handful
of maggots thrown in at regular intervals is most effective.

TL
MC

[Ken Fortenberry]

Mike Connor wrote:
>
> ... If you wish to "chum" for trout in freshwater, then a handful
> of maggots thrown in at regular intervals is most effective.

Just think how easy it would be to "chum" a stream located
next to the Republican National Convention. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Lionel F. Stevenson]

in article , Mike Connor at
wrote on 11/3/05 12:54 PM:

>
> "Lionel F. Stevenson" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> ...
> <SNIP>
>> I prefer fishing in the wild, too.
>>
>> Stocked fish that have been in the water for 6 months are basically wild.
>> They don't seem to remember pellet feeding, they fight well and they taste
>> good too.
>> I've tried chumming them with "Whiskas" cat bits, without any results.
>> -- Lionel
>>
> <SNIP>
>
> Stocked fish will never be wild. The closest one can get, is by stocking
> fry, or at most, fingerlings. Even these are not really truly wild, as they
> usually come from limited gene pools.
>
> Under natural conditions, the massive mortality rate ensures that only the
> fittest and most suited to the environment fish survive. This is not the
> case with hatchery fish.
>
> "Chumming" for trout is considered unsporting at best, and is also illegal
> in many places. Using "Whiskas", will usually attract more eels and catfish,
> than trout. If you wish to "chum" for trout in freshwater, then a handful
> of maggots thrown in at regular intervals is most effective.
>
> TL
> MC
>
>
I was just trying to find out if there were any fish in the lake.
-- Lionel

[Mike Connor]

"Lionel F. Stevenson" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
<SNIP>
> I was just trying to find out if there were any fish in the lake.
> -- Lionel
>

I was not condemning you, merely pointing something out.

One or two other points which arose;

Trout don´t normally jump out of still water to take flies. They jump either
because they are trying to rid themselves of parasites, ( i.e. carp louse,
Argulus foliaceus), or because they are diseased in some way.

During warm weather, what are often thought to be "rises", are indeed trout
swimming to the surface and gulping air. This is because there is not
sufficient oxygen in the water. They will not feed under such circumstances.

In many lakes and ponds trout will not survive "lake turnover", also because
of lack of oxygen. See;

http://www.conservation.state.mo.us/fish/ponds/laketurn/

http://www.conservation.state.mo.us/manag/aqgfshkl.html

So stocking them in such places is usually fruitless.

If bait fishermen are not catching anything at all, then it is unlikely that
there is much there to be caught. Most good bait fishermen on still water
will usually outfish a fly-fisherman by a large margin.

TL
MC

[Tom Nakashima]

"Mike Connor" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Chumming" for trout is considered unsporting at best, and is also illegal
> in many places. Using "Whiskas", will usually attract more eels and
> catfish, than trout. If you wish to "chum" for trout in freshwater, then
> a handful of maggots thrown in at regular intervals is most effective.
>
> TL
> MC

When I hear the word chumming, I can't help but thinking of the comment when
Roy Scheider (Police Chief Brody) turns to Robert Shaw (Quint) after
chumming red bloody meat in the water and getting a first look at the huge
white shark; "I think we need a bigger boat!"

"Ya knaw the worst thing about a shark Chief? The eyessss, the black
eyessss Chief"
-tom