Newbie and nothing jumping.

[Karl S]

I've been visiting the lakes and ponds around Yakima Washington since
receiving a fly rod last year for my birthday. One thing that I've been
wondering about is this: When the water is glassy-smooth and nothing has
jumped for a few hours, is it even worth the effort to use a dry fly? If
the fish aren't eating real flies, can they be induced to rise to a fake
one? I've yet to figure out how to get a wet fly out beyond about twice
the length of my fishing rod, unless I use a spin-cast rod and a
water-filled bobber... Not exactly what I want to do right now.
Meanwhile, the family of campers at the other end of the lake are using
wads of scented "power bait" and catching trout, which at least proves
there are fish in the lake after all!

Karl S.

[John Buchanan]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:01:49 -0800, Karl S <Treecatcher> wrote:

>I've been visiting the lakes and ponds around Yakima Washington since
>receiving a fly rod last year for my birthday. One thing that I've been
>wondering about is this: When the water is glassy-smooth and nothing has
>jumped for a few hours, is it even worth the effort to use a dry fly? If
>the fish aren't eating real flies, can they be induced to rise to a fake
>one? I've yet to figure out how to get a wet fly out beyond about twice
>the length of my fishing rod, unless I use a spin-cast rod and a
>water-filled bobber... Not exactly what I want to do right now.
>Meanwhile, the family of campers at the other end of the lake are using
>wads of scented "power bait" and catching trout, which at least proves
>there are fish in the lake after all!

First off, IMHO, powerbait is the devil's snot!

Secondly, why do you find it easier to cast dry flies than wets? I
generally fish 3 dries, much the same way that I would fish wets. I
know that on some waters that is considered cheating, because they
have the one fly rule, but dries don't have to be fished singly.

Third, have you considered fishing with nymphs or buzzers? 80% of a
trout's diet comes from the lake/river bed. Chances are that the trout
will not be feeding on the surface, and although you might be able to
tempt the occasional fish to the surface with an appealing dry, I
would go with a subsurface pattern. Look for bow waves that might
indicate trout cruising and feeding a few feet below the surface...
should be easy when there's no ripple.

Learn a bit about the life cycles of aquatic insects, and try a
pattern that matches the indigenous life in your locale. If you can't
be arsed getting into entomology, and lets face it, it's not the most
exciting subject, go with tried and tested patterns, like gold ribbed
hare's ears, pheasant tail nymphs or a black buzzer with red wingbuds.
The 'bows over here just LOVE Montana nymphs, btw!

Put a big heavy fly on the point and a lighter patterns on the
dropper(s). retrieve with a slow fig of 8, with occasional sporadic
jerks. Keep it slow and less jerky if you opt for buzzers.

Failing that, you could try annoying the hell out of them with a lure.

Fourthly... you don't need to cast to the horizon to be able to cover
fish with your fly.

If you really must have top of the water action in a flat calm, I'd
recommend that you keep your leader well de-greased and use emerger
patterns. It's less likely that terrestrial insects will get blown
onto the water during calm conditions.

That said, many trout find a big daddy long legs irresistible during
the late British summers, no matter what the conditions. However trout
might believe in your emerger, because they represent larval and pupal
stages of insects that have swam to the surface. However, if the fish
aren't rising at all, I would say that you'd be better off going deep.

I'm the first to admit that I haven't got the first idea about the
indigenous insect life in N. America, but patterns like shuttlecocks,
bob's bits, shipman's buzzers or anything that represents a failed
emerging dun do well in the UK.

Finally, if what you're saying is that you get tangles when fishing
more than one fly, I would recommend a few casting lessons or more
practice. If you're getting tangles when there's no wind, then you
really need to put some work into your casting.

Also worth considering... most fly rods work most effectively when
your working with the length of your rod length X3 worth of line out.
If, as you say, you are only working with twice a rod's length of
line, your problem could be that you don't have enough line out to
load your rod properly. IMO, you'll find the best online advice on
casting at www.sexyloops.com Check it out.

Now for the disclaimer... having tried to explore the "bottle half
full/empty" theory with Wolfgang, I'm most likely to be talking out of
my arse here. Caveat emptor!

HTH

John
/fishing/
http://groups.msn.com/scottishflyfisher

[Scottish Fly Fisher]

<SNIP>

....and another thing... never try to adjust your group properties when
you're plotched! You'll give your secret identity away!

John
/fishing/
http://groups.msn.com/scottishflyfisher

[daytripper]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 01:54:45 +0000 (UTC), Scottish Fly Fisher
> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>...and another thing... never try to adjust your group properties when
>you're plotched! You'll give your secret identity away!
>
>John

ahahahahahahaahaaha!

[asadi]

"Karl S" <Treecatcher>

I've yet to figure out how to get a wet fly out beyond about twice
> the length of my fishing rod, unless I use a spin-cast rod and a
> water-filled bobber... > Karl S.

http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/contents.shtml

[Cyli]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:01:49 -0800, Karl S <Treecatcher> wrote:

>I've been visiting the lakes and ponds around Yakima Washington since
>receiving a fly rod last year for my birthday. One thing that I've been
>wondering about is this: When the water is glassy-smooth and nothing has
>jumped for a few hours,

Jumped? Yeah, sometimes fish do that, but more often after they're
hooked. What you want to look for on smooth water is little tiny
rings that look as if a grain of sand had just fallen on the water.
That's either an insect landing or a fish coming to the surface to
suck in an insect that's landing or floating.

When fishermen speak of rising fish, that's the kind of thing they
mean. Jumping is something else again. Cast your fly to land on or
near where you saw the little rings spreading out. If possible, try
to find out what kind of insects are moving around, particularly at
and just above the surface of the water. Then try to find a fly that
matches them. That's called matching the hatch. I don't bother with
it, but then I don't catch much, either.

What kind of fish are you trying to catch? Makes a difference what
kinds of flys and techniques you'll be using. All sorts of things
matter. Season of the year, time of day, habitat of the species,
typical food of the species, etc.. Morning and evening many fish will
be in by shore, mid day, sulking in a deep cool spot, night times
could be anywhere. Spring and fall are good near a shore where
there's more sunshine all day long. Summer, opposite.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: (strip the .invalid to email)

[Karl S]

daytripper wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 01:54:45 +0000 (UTC), Scottish Fly Fisher
> > wrote:
>
>
>><SNIP>
>>
>>...and another thing... never try to adjust your group properties when
>>you're plotched! You'll give your secret identity away!
>>
>>John
>
>
> ahahahahahahaahaaha!

I'll never tell anyone the mysterious Scottish Fly Fisher's secret
identity! I will, however, print your reply for my notes, John. There's
a lot of good information there.

As for casting, I agree absolutely, I have a great deal of learning to
do. The videotape that came with my fly rod showed how to cast a single
dry fly, and that is more than enough to test my dubious beginner's
skill. The wet flies I've seen have been much larger and heavier, often
with weighted heads, and getting them "out there" is beyond me entirely
at present. I've had some success with a "roll cast" I learned from a
public-library book, for working from the brush around the local lakes,
so now I'm moderately incompetent with two casting forms instead of just
one! A triumph!

I've found that there is one fly fishing shop in this town, and when my
currently-unusually-frantic work schedule permits it, I'll go visit them
and ask about lessons.

Karl S.

[Karl S]

Cyli wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:01:49 -0800, Karl S <Treecatcher> wrote:
>
>
>>I've been visiting the lakes and ponds around Yakima Washington since
>>receiving a fly rod last year for my birthday. One thing that I've been
>>wondering about is this: When the water is glassy-smooth and nothing has
>>jumped for a few hours,
>
>
> Jumped? Yeah, sometimes fish do that, but more often after they're
> hooked. What you want to look for on smooth water is little tiny
> rings that look as if a grain of sand had just fallen on the water.
> That's either an insect landing or a fish coming to the surface to
> suck in an insect that's landing or floating.
>
> When fishermen speak of rising fish, that's the kind of thing they
> mean. Jumping is something else again. Cast your fly to land on or
> near where you saw the little rings spreading out. If possible, try
> to find out what kind of insects are moving around, particularly at
> and just above the surface of the water. Then try to find a fly that
> matches them. That's called matching the hatch. I don't bother with
> it, but then I don't catch much, either.
>
> What kind of fish are you trying to catch? Makes a difference what
> kinds of flys and techniques you'll be using. All sorts of things
> matter. Season of the year, time of day, habitat of the species,
> typical food of the species, etc.. Morning and evening many fish will
> be in by shore, mid day, sulking in a deep cool spot, night times
> could be anywhere. Spring and fall are good near a shore where
> there's more sunshine all day long. Summer, opposite.
>
> Cyli
> r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
> Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.
>
> http://www.visi.com/~cyli
> email: (strip the .invalid to email)

On further thought, maybe it's only the smallest fish (mostly stocked
rainbow trout, around here) that actually jump for bugs. Some evenings,
you can see them, and hear them, all over the lakes. That's just about
the time the mosquitos come out, too...
One pond I tried, little two-inch trout (species uncertain) kept trying
to eat my dry fly, but couldn't get it into their tiny mouths! It was
sort of entertaining, watching them vainly nibble at that fly, but
probably frustrating for the fish.

Speaker to Squirrels? You've got me beat. I've shared my lunches with a
few squirrels and chipmunks, but never had anything to tell them that
they seemed to care to hear. I got a chipmunk to pose for me one day
though, by bribing it with some trail mix. I stuck the photo on my
personal web page at www.sysmatrix.net/~karls if you're interested.
Under "Mt Rainier".

Karl S.

[Tom Nakashima]

"Karl S" <Treecatcher> wrote in message
...
>
> Speaker to Squirrels? You've got me beat. I've shared my lunches with a
> few squirrels and chipmunks, but never had anything to tell them that they
> seemed to care to hear. I got a chipmunk to pose for me one day though, by
> bribing it with some trail mix. I stuck the photo on my personal web page
> at www.sysmatrix.net/~karls if you're interested. Under "Mt Rainier".
>
> Karl S.

Very nice Karl, love the photos on White River.
How did you ever get that cat to pose?
Fly-fishing is a lifetime wonderful experience. A few of my friends get
****ed when they don't bring home fish, but it's not about that for me. Many
times I go out and get nothing, but I'm not discouraged because I just enjoy
just being out in the wilderness. An awesome feeling to make a beautiful
cast on a peaceful glassy lake in the late evenings. If I catch a fish it's
a bonus, and most of the time I'll release it unharmed.
-tom