Cork filler (need to buy or make)

[Tom Nakashima]

I got a pretty good size divot where my index finger touches the cork on my
fly-rod. There are a lot of divots but this one is annoying. Is there a
cork filler on the market, or can you make it yourself? Been to the hardware
store, wood filler (not sure if that will do), but no cork filler.
-tom

[Wolfgang]

"Tom Nakashima" > wrote in message
...
>I got a pretty good size divot where my index finger touches the cork on my
>fly-rod. There are a lot of divots but this one is annoying. Is there a
>cork filler on the market, or can you make it yourself? Been to the
>hardware store, wood filler (not sure if that will do), but no cork filler.
> -tom

Never had to do it myself, but it seems to me that the best filler for cork
would be......cork. You can buy it in various forms from hardware, craft,
and other stores, including, of course, fly shops. But I'd guess your best
bet is to go out and buy a bottle of red wine (seems to me I recently
learned you've got an interest in this anyway) and enjoy a glass or two
while shaping the cork to your needs. There is a wide variety of waterproof
glues that will do a good job of holding the patch together. :)

And no, wood fillers won't do at all.

Wolfgang

[eric paul zamora]

there are some who might consider such a divot a feature. use some
sandpaper, working to a finer grade, smoothing it out.

eric
fresno, ca.


> From: "Tom Nakashima" >
> Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:55:15 -0800
> Subject: Cork filler (need to buy or make)
>
> I got a pretty good size divot where my index finger touches the cork on my
> fly-rod. There are a lot of divots but this one is annoying. Is there a
> cork filler on the market, or can you make it yourself? Been to the hardware
> store, wood filler (not sure if that will do), but no cork filler.
> -tom
>
>

[scott]

Grind a wine bottle cork in your food processor, mix with two-part
epoxy, apply to handle, let cure, buff down with a fine-grit paper or
nail file. Done! I prefer white wine corks because 1) I don't have to
cut the stained portion off the cork, and 2) red wine does bad things
to me.

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:55:15 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
> wrote:

>I got a pretty good size divot where my index finger touches the cork on my
>fly-rod. There are a lot of divots but this one is annoying. Is there a
>cork filler on the market, or can you make it yourself? Been to the hardware
>store, wood filler (not sure if that will do), but no cork filler.
>-tom
>

To make filler, you need cork _dust_ and adhesive (there is a specialty
adhesive, but Duco, Elmer's or similar will work). AFAIK, the only way
to get cork dust is to make/create it with cork and sandpaper. I'd
recommend a belt sander first, then a disc, and a vibrating type as the
least-favorable mechanical method.

HTH,
R

[Mike]

Take some cork some clear glue a cheese grater.....Grate the cork mix
with clue patch sand to your taste

[[email protected]]

On 6 Dec 2005 15:07:40 -0800, "scott" > wrote:

>Grind a wine bottle cork in your food processor, mix with two-part
>epoxy, apply to handle, let cure, buff down with a fine-grit paper or
>nail file. Done! I prefer white wine corks because 1) I don't have to
>cut the stained portion off the cork, and 2) red wine does bad things
>to me.

While I have no doubt that will fill the divot, that's not the preferred
way. to do a true repair, you need dust, not chopped cork. I'd offer
there's no reason to add the (chopped or dust) cork if one is going to
use something that dries like Devcon or similar epoxy. I'd also keep my
flies and line well away from such a patch because of the smell.

HTH,
R

[Wolfgang]

"scott" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Grind a wine bottle cork in your food processor, mix with two-part
> epoxy, apply to handle, let cure, buff down with a fine-grit paper or
> nail file. Done!

Cheap, fast, easy, and effective. However, the trouble with all methods
using, ground, powdered, sanded, or otherwise disintegrated cork in a glue
base is that you lose both of the primary benefits of using cork in the
first place......insulation and, more importantly, resilience. Essentially,
the method you describe (variations of which have been put forward by
others) is that you are simply filling with epoxy or some other gap filling
compound. The cork bits become mere window dressing. Better to cut a piece
of solid cork to fit.....even to enlarge and shape the defect if necessary,
and then cutting and gluing a patch to fit.

> I prefer white wine corks because 1) I don't have to
> cut the stained portion off the cork, and 2) red wine does bad things
> to me.

1) is a matter of esthetics, and I won't try to dictate tastes to anyone.
Personally, I'd leave the red wine stains.....character and story material.

2) tell us more! :)

Wolfgang

[BJ Conner]

Tom Nakashima wrote:
> I got a pretty good size divot where my index finger touches the cork on my
> fly-rod. There are a lot of divots but this one is annoying. Is there a
> cork filler on the market, or can you make it yourself? Been to the hardware
> store, wood filler (not sure if that will do), but no cork filler.
> -tom

Use wine bottle corks and a shoe rasp or any course file to make a pile
of cork dust. I have used RTV ( silicone rubber ) to make a paste that
firms up pretty well. roughen up the hole and apply the goop. I have
used this to make entire handles. The RTV caulking comes in several
colors. It makes good rod handles and gives you an excuse to collect
corks.

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:27:09 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:

>
>"scott" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> Grind a wine bottle cork in your food processor, mix with two-part
>> epoxy, apply to handle, let cure, buff down with a fine-grit paper or
>> nail file. Done!
>
>Cheap, fast, easy, and effective. However, the trouble with all methods
>using, ground, powdered, sanded, or otherwise disintegrated cork in a glue
>base is that you lose both of the primary benefits of using cork in the
>first place......insulation and, more importantly, resilience. Essentially,
>the method you describe (variations of which have been put forward by
>others) is that you are simply filling with epoxy or some other gap filling
>compound. The cork bits become mere window dressing. Better to cut a piece
>of solid cork to fit.....even to enlarge and shape the defect if necessary,
>and then cutting and gluing a patch to fit.
>
Um...sorta. That's why the preferred method is dust rather than chopped
"bits." and a less-hard-setting adhesive rather than epoxy. Think of a
wood dough of fine sawdust versus a mixture of chips and epoxy - neither
is an impossible-to-detect restoration, but the former is preferable to
the latter.

HTH,
R

[Wolfgang]

> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:27:09 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"scott" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>>> Grind a wine bottle cork in your food processor, mix with two-part
>>> epoxy, apply to handle, let cure, buff down with a fine-grit paper or
>>> nail file. Done!
>>
>>Cheap, fast, easy, and effective. However, the trouble with all methods
>>using, ground, powdered, sanded, or otherwise disintegrated cork in a glue
>>base is that you lose both of the primary benefits of using cork in the
>>first place......insulation and, more importantly, resilience.
>>Essentially,
>>the method you describe (variations of which have been put forward by
>>others) is that you are simply filling with epoxy or some other gap
>>filling
>>compound. The cork bits become mere window dressing. Better to cut a
>>piece
>>of solid cork to fit.....even to enlarge and shape the defect if
>>necessary,
>>and then cutting and gluing a patch to fit.
>>
> Um...sorta.

No, exactly.

.. That's why the preferred method is dust rather than chopped
> "bits."

Preferred by whom? Double-naught superheroes everywhere? Not by me.

> and a less-hard-setting adhesive rather than epoxy. Think of a
> wood dough of fine sawdust versus a mixture of chips and epoxy - neither
> is an impossible-to-detect restoration, but the former is preferable to
> the latter.

You haven't done a great deal of restoration work, have you? :)

Wolfgang

[Charlie Choc]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:47:13 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:

>You haven't done a great deal of restoration work, have you? :)
>
You mean as in your "Never had to do it myself, but it seems to me..."
experience? <g>
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

[Wolfgang]

"Charlie Choc" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:47:13 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:
>
>>You haven't done a great deal of restoration work, have you? :)
>>
> You mean as in your "Never had to do it myself, but it seems to me..."
> experience? <g>

No.....dumbass. That's not what it means at all. Would you like to venture
another guess?

Wolfgang

[Charlie Choc]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:05:41 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:

>
>"Charlie Choc" > wrote in message
...
>> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:47:13 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:
>>
>>>You haven't done a great deal of restoration work, have you? :)
>>>
>> You mean as in your "Never had to do it myself, but it seems to me..."
>> experience? <g>
>
>No.....dumbass. That's not what it means at all. Would you like to venture
>another guess?
>
No, "but it seems to me..."... dumbass.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:47:13 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:27:09 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"scott" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>>>> Grind a wine bottle cork in your food processor, mix with two-part
>>>> epoxy, apply to handle, let cure, buff down with a fine-grit paper or
>>>> nail file. Done!
>>>
>>>Cheap, fast, easy, and effective. However, the trouble with all methods
>>>using, ground, powdered, sanded, or otherwise disintegrated cork in a glue
>>>base is that you lose both of the primary benefits of using cork in the
>>>first place......insulation and, more importantly, resilience.
>>>Essentially,
>>>the method you describe (variations of which have been put forward by
>>>others) is that you are simply filling with epoxy or some other gap
>>>filling
>>>compound. The cork bits become mere window dressing. Better to cut a
>>>piece
>>>of solid cork to fit.....even to enlarge and shape the defect if
>>>necessary,
>>>and then cutting and gluing a patch to fit.
>>>
>> Um...sorta.
>
>No, exactly.

No, not exactly.
>
>. That's why the preferred method is dust rather than chopped
>> "bits."
>
>Preferred by whom?

Amongst others, professional rod finishers.

>Double-naught superheroes everywhere?

Well, the better ones at least.

>Not by me.

Not surprising in the least...and meaningless, to boot.

>> and a less-hard-setting adhesive rather than epoxy. Think of a
>> wood dough of fine sawdust versus a mixture of chips and epoxy - neither
>> is an impossible-to-detect restoration, but the former is preferable to
>> the latter.
>
>You haven't done a great deal of restoration work, have you? :)

If you don't count the dozens of various pieces and projects that
currently await me, yes, I have.

[Wolfgang]

"Charlie Choc" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:05:41 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:
>
>> Would you like to venture another guess?
>>
> No, "but it seems to me..."... dumbass.

What seems which to you?

Wolfgang
it's a damned shame, really......for the last year or so the boy was doing a
pretty good impression of an adult.

[Wolfgang]

> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:47:13 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:
>
>>
> wrote in message
...
>>> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:27:09 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"scott" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>>>>> Grind a wine bottle cork in your food processor, mix with two-part
>>>>> epoxy, apply to handle, let cure, buff down with a fine-grit paper or
>>>>> nail file. Done!
>>>>
>>>>Cheap, fast, easy, and effective. However, the trouble with all methods
>>>>using, ground, powdered, sanded, or otherwise disintegrated cork in a
>>>>glue
>>>>base is that you lose both of the primary benefits of using cork in the
>>>>first place......insulation and, more importantly, resilience.
>>>>Essentially,
>>>>the method you describe (variations of which have been put forward by
>>>>others) is that you are simply filling with epoxy or some other gap
>>>>filling
>>>>compound. The cork bits become mere window dressing. Better to cut a
>>>>piece
>>>>of solid cork to fit.....even to enlarge and shape the defect if
>>>>necessary,
>>>>and then cutting and gluing a patch to fit.
>>>>
>>> Um...sorta.
>>
>>No, exactly.
>
> No, not exactly.
>>
>>. That's why the preferred method is dust rather than chopped
>>> "bits."
>>
>>Preferred by whom?
>
> Amongst others, professional rod finishers.

Which professional rod finishers? How about professional rod restorers?

>>Double-naught superheroes everywhere?
>
> Well, the better ones at least.

Well.......gosh.

>>Not by me.
>
> Not surprising in the least...and meaningless, to boot.

And responding to meaninglessness is.......what?

>>> and a less-hard-setting adhesive rather than epoxy. Think of a
>>> wood dough of fine sawdust versus a mixture of chips and epoxy - neither
>>> is an impossible-to-detect restoration, but the former is preferable to
>>> the latter.
>>
>>You haven't done a great deal of restoration work, have you? :)
>
> If you don't count the dozens of various pieces and projects that
> currently await me, yes, I have.

Yeah? What sort?

And, no, I don't usually count things "awaiting" as done. But hey, it's a
HELL of a way to boost your score! :)

Wolfgang
ooh, we are gonna have SUCH fun for the next couple of days! :)

[Charlie Choc]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:19:51 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:

>Wolfgang
>it's a damned shame, really......for the last year or so the boy was doing a
>pretty good impression of an adult.
>
Oh the irony.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

[Wolfgang]

"Charlie Choc" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:19:51 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:
>
>>Wolfgang
>>it's a damned shame, really......for the last year or so the boy was doing
>>a
>>pretty good impression of an adult.
>>
> Oh the irony.

Oh, the penetrating insight! :)

Wolfgang
hee, hee, hee.

[angler]

There is one more method that no-one seems to have mentioned.

Cork dust and glue will fix it so that visibly you can almost not tell
there was a divot once, but if you are doing repair on the exact spot
where your index finger is touching then you will definitely not like
the feeling of hardened glue on that spot.

I have built and repaired a number of rods and allthough it might seem
a bit strange I d suggest cutting away a bigger piece than just the
divot, then using a cork ring for the purpose of making your own
handles to replace the bad part. Just shape it into the piece that you
cut away, using a razor.

When gluing the new piece in place use as little glue as possible,
without risking that the piece will losen again. Oh, and use a flexible
kind of glue, not the epoxy type.

/Roger

[Mike Connor]

"angler" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ps.com...
> There is one more method that no-one seems to have mentioned.
>
> Cork dust and glue will fix it so that visibly you can almost not tell
> there was a divot once, but if you are doing repair on the exact spot
> where your index finger is touching then you will definitely not like
> the feeling of hardened glue on that spot.
>
> I have built and repaired a number of rods and allthough it might seem
> a bit strange I d suggest cutting away a bigger piece than just the
> divot, then using a cork ring for the purpose of making your own
> handles to replace the bad part. Just shape it into the piece that you
> cut away, using a razor.
>
> When gluing the new piece in place use as little glue as possible,
> without risking that the piece will losen again. Oh, and use a flexible
> kind of glue, not the epoxy type.
>
> /Roger

Cork dust and glue will fix small holes etc.

If you have a large defect, then go to the tackle shop and buy a cork ring,
such as is used for making cork handles in the first place. Split this in
half. Remove the defective section of the butt, carefully, and use the two
halves of the ring to replace it. Sand carefully as desired.

TL
MC

[Conan The Librarian]

Wolfgang wrote:

> Cheap, fast, easy, and effective. However, the trouble with all methods
> using, ground, powdered, sanded, or otherwise disintegrated cork in a glue
> base is that you lose both of the primary benefits of using cork in the
> first place......insulation and, more importantly, resilience. Essentially,
> the method you describe (variations of which have been put forward by
> others) is that you are simply filling with epoxy or some other gap filling
> compound. The cork bits become mere window dressing. Better to cut a piece
> of solid cork to fit.....even to enlarge and shape the defect if necessary,
> and then cutting and gluing a patch to fit.

This reminds me of a woodworking technique that actually makes the
defect into a feature. It's called a "Dutchman" (no offense to any
Dutch or their relatives). Cut a piece of whatever material you plan to
inlay in a diamond or "bowtie" shape slightly larger than the defect.
Lay the inlay piece over the defect and trace its outline. Remove the
material from inside the lines, sneaking up on the fit. Glue (I'm
guessing a flexible glue would be best for a cork handle), let dry, and
sand flush.


Chuck Vance (but before we get started, let's take a moment to
talk about shop safety ...)

[Tom Nakashima]

> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:55:15 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
> > wrote:
>
>>I got a pretty good size divot where my index finger touches the cork on
>>my
>>fly-rod. There are a lot of divots but this one is annoying. Is there a
>>cork filler on the market, or can you make it yourself? Been to the
>>hardware
>>store, wood filler (not sure if that will do), but no cork filler.
>>-tom
>>

Whoa, so many great ideas.
I guess I'll start playing around with a few of them and see where it goes.
I have an old Garcia spin-casting rod where the cork is in worst shape than
my fly-rod. It would be ideal for experimenting with.
thanks again ROFF for all of your expertise,
-tom

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 07:02:37 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> wrote:

>Wolfgang wrote:
>
>> Cheap, fast, easy, and effective. However, the trouble with all methods
>> using, ground, powdered, sanded, or otherwise disintegrated cork in a glue
>> base is that you lose both of the primary benefits of using cork in the
>> first place......insulation and, more importantly, resilience. Essentially,
>> the method you describe (variations of which have been put forward by
>> others) is that you are simply filling with epoxy or some other gap filling
>> compound. The cork bits become mere window dressing. Better to cut a piece
>> of solid cork to fit.....even to enlarge and shape the defect if necessary,
>> and then cutting and gluing a patch to fit.
>
> This reminds me of a woodworking technique that actually makes the
>defect into a feature. It's called a "Dutchman" (no offense to any
>Dutch or their relatives). Cut a piece of whatever material you plan to
>inlay in a diamond or "bowtie" shape slightly larger than the defect.
>Lay the inlay piece over the defect and trace its outline. Remove the
>material from inside the lines, sneaking up on the fit. Glue (I'm
>guessing a flexible glue would be best for a cork handle), let dry, and
>sand flush.

I suspect one would find that using a Dutchman (and the name might give
a clue as to it making a "defect into a feature" versus simply being
frugal and better than wasting material/furniture/etc.) in a rod handle
to be more trouble than it'd be worth, even if it worked. I doubt it
would. If the handle is losing multiple "chunks," the cork is
deteriorating (and/or one of the hinkier pressed cork types) and such a
patch attempt is likely to do more damage by taking out more cork when
it fails.

There are multiple grades of cork used for handles, good and not-so-good
variations of "pressed" cork, and cork tape. Assuming the most common
type, rings, and if the divot were large enough to make use of a "piece
patch" technique, it would be time to replace at least one ring, if not
the whole handle. The replacement of the cork itself is not hard at
all. The shaping can be a chore if done completely by hand, but power
tools can speed things up and access to a lathe can make things pretty
much a breeze. Depending on the rod, the amount of "deconstruction"
necessary for a complete replacement could be significant. If Tom had
asked for opinions on that, I'd have happily offered what I could. As
he asked a pointed question that had a single answer, I provided it.

If you have access in your library to "Advanced Custom Rod Building" by
Clemens, look on page 104, "Filling the cork." Also, "A Master's Guide
to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod" by Garrison and Carmichael, page 216-217,
"Cleaning and Repairing the Cork Grip." I haven't bothered to check
other such references, but I suspect they would detail the same standard
technique for filling minor defects.

TC,
R

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 06:24:30 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
> wrote:

>
>> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:55:15 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I got a pretty good size divot where my index finger touches the cork on
>>>my
>>>fly-rod. There are a lot of divots but this one is annoying. Is there a
>>>cork filler on the market, or can you make it yourself? Been to the
>>>hardware
>>>store, wood filler (not sure if that will do), but no cork filler.
>>>-tom
>>>
>
>Whoa, so many great ideas.
>I guess I'll start playing around with a few of them and see where it goes.
>I have an old Garcia spin-casting rod where the cork is in worst shape than
>my fly-rod. It would be ideal for experimenting with.
>thanks again ROFF for all of your expertise,
>-tom
>
See my reply to Chuck/Conan, re: sources of info. The Garrison book may
be kinda hard to find, but AFAIK, the Clemens' book is widely available,
and contains quite a bit of information on this general topic.

Depending on the rod and the cork, it might be better to replace all but
the ends of the handle, assuming your are simply wanting to make a
effective, reasonably-attractive repair for use, rather than a
restoration. The repair option isn't difficult if you are moderately
handy and proceed with some care.

If you'd like, post a pic (abpf will work for me) and maybe we can
determine fill v. replace, etc. If you feel I can be of any help, feel
free to ask.

HTH,
R

TC,
R

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 12:50:17 +0100, "Mike Connor"
> wrote:

>
>"angler" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ps.com...
>> There is one more method that no-one seems to have mentioned.
>>
>> Cork dust and glue will fix it so that visibly you can almost not tell
>> there was a divot once, but if you are doing repair on the exact spot
>> where your index finger is touching then you will definitely not like
>> the feeling of hardened glue on that spot.
>>
>> I have built and repaired a number of rods and allthough it might seem
>> a bit strange I d suggest cutting away a bigger piece than just the
>> divot, then using a cork ring for the purpose of making your own
>> handles to replace the bad part. Just shape it into the piece that you
>> cut away, using a razor.
>>
>> When gluing the new piece in place use as little glue as possible,
>> without risking that the piece will losen again. Oh, and use a flexible
>> kind of glue, not the epoxy type.
>>
>> /Roger
>
>Cork dust and glue will fix small holes etc.
>
>If you have a large defect, then go to the tackle shop and buy a cork ring,
>such as is used for making cork handles in the first place. Split this in
>half. Remove the defective section of the butt, carefully, and use the two
>halves of the ring to replace it. Sand carefully as desired.

And if I may:

To protect the part of the handle to remain after the repair, first tape
around the handle with blue painter's tape or similar. Then, to protect
the handle to remain, make two "release" cuts around the handle
completely to the blank with a VERY thin sharp blade. Take care to cut
the section to be replaced slightly smaller than the cork ring(s) - it's
a lot easier to fit the ring to the cutout rather than the cutout to the
ring.

Then, make several parallel "to the blank" cuts in the section to be
removed, working from the first cut in toward the center of the section
to be removed - think of removing stock for a hinge mortise.

The goal is to keep the edge of the cutout in the remaining handle as
smooth and perpendicular to the blank as possible so the replacement
ring(s) can be fitted as fully-connected to the remaining cork as
possible.

TC,
R

[Scott Seidman]

wrote in news:m2tdp1parlbd1trsg7v2mh1qqd8bhbcg4t@
4ax.com:

>>
> See my reply to Chuck/Conan, re: sources of info. The Garrison book may
> be kinda hard to find, but AFAIK, the Clemens' book is widely available,
> and contains quite a bit of information on this general topic.

IIRC, Boyd Pfieffer's original "Modern Tackle Craft" had a nice section on
cork repair. I think there's a more recent version, but I wouldn't know if
the info is still in there.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

[[email protected]]

On 7 Dec 2005 15:58:25 GMT, Scott Seidman >
wrote:

wrote in news:m2tdp1parlbd1trsg7v2mh1qqd8bhbcg4t@
>4ax.com:
>
>>>
>> See my reply to Chuck/Conan, re: sources of info. The Garrison book may
>> be kinda hard to find, but AFAIK, the Clemens' book is widely available,
>> and contains quite a bit of information on this general topic.
>
>IIRC, Boyd Pfieffer's original "Modern Tackle Craft" had a nice section on
>cork repair. I think there's a more recent version, but I wouldn't know if
>the info is still in there.

I suspect it does, but my copy is not at hand to check. However, to
quote Mr. Pfeiffer in "The Complete Book of Tackle Making," which is now
at hand, "...fill the pit with a mixture of cork dust and glue, but do
not use the very hard glues, such as epoxies." He notes that he uses
Gudebrod, Clemens indicates Duco, and Garrison, Weldbond.

Whoda thunk them guys to be some of them double-naught superheroes...

TC,
R

[William Claspy]

On 12/7/05 11:27 AM, in article ,
" > wrote:

> On 7 Dec 2005 15:58:25 GMT, Scott Seidman >
> wrote:
>
>> wrote in news:m2tdp1parlbd1trsg7v2mh1qqd8bhbcg4t@
>> 4ax.com:
>>
>>>>
>>> See my reply to Chuck/Conan, re: sources of info. The Garrison book may
>>> be kinda hard to find, but AFAIK, the Clemens' book is widely available,
>>> and contains quite a bit of information on this general topic.
>>
>> IIRC, Boyd Pfieffer's original "Modern Tackle Craft" had a nice section on
>> cork repair. I think there's a more recent version, but I wouldn't know if
>> the info is still in there.
>
> I suspect it does, but my copy is not at hand to check. However, to
> quote Mr. Pfeiffer in "The Complete Book of Tackle Making," which is now
> at hand, "...fill the pit with a mixture of cork dust and glue, but do
> not use the very hard glues, such as epoxies." He notes that he uses
> Gudebrod, Clemens indicates Duco, and Garrison, Weldbond.
>
> Whoda thunk them guys to be some of them double-naught superheroes...

Note that Garrison goes on to say that such repairs are only for small
voids, and that larger ones should not be filled but replaced.

I love that book. Garrison seems like he was the double-naught of cane rod
building.

Bill

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:08:46 -0500, William Claspy >
wrote:

>On 12/7/05 11:27 AM, in article ,
" > wrote:
>
>> On 7 Dec 2005 15:58:25 GMT, Scott Seidman >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> wrote in news:m2tdp1parlbd1trsg7v2mh1qqd8bhbcg4t@
>>> 4ax.com:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> See my reply to Chuck/Conan, re: sources of info. The Garrison book may
>>>> be kinda hard to find, but AFAIK, the Clemens' book is widely available,
>>>> and contains quite a bit of information on this general topic.
>>>
>>> IIRC, Boyd Pfieffer's original "Modern Tackle Craft" had a nice section on
>>> cork repair. I think there's a more recent version, but I wouldn't know if
>>> the info is still in there.
>>
>> I suspect it does, but my copy is not at hand to check. However, to
>> quote Mr. Pfeiffer in "The Complete Book of Tackle Making," which is now
>> at hand, "...fill the pit with a mixture of cork dust and glue, but do
>> not use the very hard glues, such as epoxies." He notes that he uses
>> Gudebrod, Clemens indicates Duco, and Garrison, Weldbond.
>>
>> Whoda thunk them guys to be some of them double-naught superheroes...
>
>Note that Garrison goes on to say that such repairs are only for small
>voids, and that larger ones should not be filled but replaced.

Absolutely. Since Tom seemed to know what he wanted and only asked for
info on filler, that's all I (originally) addressed. Keep in mind that
repairing by replacing sections might be more trouble than it's worth
from a time perspective (on many rods types, it isn't particularly
demanding skill-wise as long as reasonable care is exercised), depending
on the rod and its construction, as well as the repairer's access to
tools.

>I love that book. Garrison seems like he was the double-naught of cane rod
>building.

He did turn out some pretty decent rods, having taken his, pardon the
Bond pun, "cue" from some of the early masters of the art.

TC,
R

[Conan The Librarian]

wrote:

> I suspect one would find that using a Dutchman (and the name might give
> a clue as to it making a "defect into a feature" versus simply being
> frugal and better than wasting material/furniture/etc.) in a rod handle
> to be more trouble than it'd be worth, even if it worked. I doubt it
> would. If the handle is losing multiple "chunks," the cork is
> deteriorating (and/or one of the hinkier pressed cork types) and such a
> patch attempt is likely to do more damage by taking out more cork when
> it fails.

IIRC, the OP mentioned a "divot", which seemed like a likely
candidate for a patch rather than a sanding dust filler. I honestly
don't see any reason why it shouldn't work. You're not gluing it to the
surrounding cork.

> There are multiple grades of cork used for handles, good and not-so-good
> variations of "pressed" cork, and cork tape. Assuming the most common
> type, rings, and if the divot were large enough to make use of a "piece
> patch" technique, it would be time to replace at least one ring, if not
> the whole handle. The replacement of the cork itself is not hard at
> all. The shaping can be a chore if done completely by hand, but power
> tools can speed things up and access to a lathe can make things pretty
> much a breeze. Depending on the rod, the amount of "deconstruction"
> necessary for a complete replacement could be significant. If Tom had
> asked for opinions on that, I'd have happily offered what I could. As
> he asked a pointed question that had a single answer, I provided it.

Yes, you and the rest of ROFF. :-) I also offered what seemed to
me to be a fairly straightforward process for repairing a "divot". It
may seem like more trouble than it's worth to you, but I *like* fitting
inlays in wood. It's certainly more fun than creating a mess of sanding
dust and trying to form a paste of that and glue to fill a void.

I thought it might also work with cork.

YMODV.

> If you have access in your library to "Advanced Custom Rod Building" by
> Clemens, look on page 104, "Filling the cork." Also, "A Master's Guide
> to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod" by Garrison and Carmichael, page 216-217,
> "Cleaning and Repairing the Cork Grip." I haven't bothered to check
> other such references, but I suspect they would detail the same standard
> technique for filling minor defects.

Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but I'll
make a note of them.


Chuck Vance (who has one early 80's-vintage Fenwick HMG that
needs some serious cork work done; probably more like the ring
replacement you described above, as cockroaches or rats or *something*
got into it in storage and ate away huge pieces of the grip)

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:05:21 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> wrote:

wrote:
>
>> I suspect one would find that using a Dutchman (and the name might give
>> a clue as to it making a "defect into a feature" versus simply being
>> frugal and better than wasting material/furniture/etc.) in a rod handle
>> to be more trouble than it'd be worth, even if it worked. I doubt it
>> would. If the handle is losing multiple "chunks," the cork is
>> deteriorating (and/or one of the hinkier pressed cork types) and such a
>> patch attempt is likely to do more damage by taking out more cork when
>> it fails.
>
> IIRC, the OP mentioned a "divot", which seemed like a likely
>candidate for a patch rather than a sanding dust filler. I honestly
>don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.

>You're not gluing it to the surrounding cork.

Then I may have misunderstood what you meant as to where you were
suggesting gluing the new piece/"Dutchman" - ???
>
>> There are multiple grades of cork used for handles, good and not-so-good
>> variations of "pressed" cork, and cork tape. Assuming the most common
>> type, rings, and if the divot were large enough to make use of a "piece
>> patch" technique, it would be time to replace at least one ring, if not
>> the whole handle. The replacement of the cork itself is not hard at
>> all. The shaping can be a chore if done completely by hand, but power
>> tools can speed things up and access to a lathe can make things pretty
>> much a breeze. Depending on the rod, the amount of "deconstruction"
>> necessary for a complete replacement could be significant. If Tom had
>> asked for opinions on that, I'd have happily offered what I could. As
>> he asked a pointed question that had a single answer, I provided it.
>
> Yes, you and the rest of ROFF. :-) I also offered what seemed to
>me to be a fairly straightforward process for repairing a "divot". It
>may seem like more trouble than it's worth to you, but I *like* fitting
>inlays in wood. It's certainly more fun than creating a mess of sanding
>dust and trying to form a paste of that and glue to fill a void.
>
> I thought it might also work with cork.

Heck, I've no problem with "it might work." I just think that the odds
are heavily against it working, and it not working would probably cause
more damage. Consider the structure of the materials involved as well
as likely uses of such a inlay (or parquetry, marquetry) piece versus
that of a cork fly rod handle. If a "piece patch" is what is called
for, the split ring method Mike Connor first outlined is what I'd
suggest.
>
> YMODV.

As might yours, and there's nothing wrong with that...IMO, anyway.

>> If you have access in your library to "Advanced Custom Rod Building" by
>> Clemens, look on page 104, "Filling the cork." Also, "A Master's Guide
>> to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod" by Garrison and Carmichael, page 216-217,
>> "Cleaning and Repairing the Cork Grip." I haven't bothered to check
>> other such references, but I suspect they would detail the same standard
>> technique for filling minor defects.
>
> Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but I'll
>make a note of them.

Actually, the Garrison book is a great book, but the handle section is a
bit thin. I'd suggest either the Clemens or Pfeiffer books with regard
to handle work, keeping in mind that a lot of the technique described is
more for full-blown, on-going rod building/finishing rather than an
occasional repair/replacement job. IOW, building sanding lathes,
reamers, taper cutters, etc. might be a bit much for very occasional
use.

> Chuck Vance (who has one early 80's-vintage Fenwick HMG that
>needs some serious cork work done; probably more like the ring
>replacement you described above, as cockroaches or rats or *something*
>got into it in storage and ate away huge pieces of the grip)

Yep, a complete or near-complete replacement in the way to go on such as
that. If possible, try to purchase the cork in person or from known
source. Check out Pfeiffer or Clemens re: cork info or Google "specie
cork." It's been years since I've needed to track such down, so I'll
not offer source opinions.

TC.
R

[Wolfgang]

"Conan The Librarian" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
>> I suspect one would find that using a Dutchman (and the name might give
>> a clue as to it making a "defect into a feature" versus simply being
>> frugal and better than wasting material/furniture/etc.) in a rod handle
>> to be more trouble than it'd be worth, even if it worked. I doubt it
>> would. If the handle is losing multiple "chunks," the cork is
>> deteriorating (and/or one of the hinkier pressed cork types) and such a
>> patch attempt is likely to do more damage by taking out more cork when
>> it fails.
>
> IIRC, the OP mentioned a "divot", which seemed like a likely candidate
> for a patch rather than a sanding dust filler. I honestly don't see any
> reason why it shouldn't work. You're not gluing it to the surrounding
> cork.
>
>> There are multiple grades of cork used for handles, good and not-so-good
>> variations of "pressed" cork, and cork tape. Assuming the most common
>> type, rings, and if the divot were large enough to make use of a "piece
>> patch" technique, it would be time to replace at least one ring, if not
>> the whole handle. The replacement of the cork itself is not hard at
>> all. The shaping can be a chore if done completely by hand, but power
>> tools can speed things up and access to a lathe can make things pretty
>> much a breeze. Depending on the rod, the amount of "deconstruction"
>> necessary for a complete replacement could be significant. If Tom had
>> asked for opinions on that, I'd have happily offered what I could. As
>> he asked a pointed question that had a single answer, I provided it.
>
> Yes, you and the rest of ROFF. :-) I also offered what seemed to me
> to be a fairly straightforward process for repairing a "divot". It may
> seem like more trouble than it's worth to you, but I *like* fitting inlays
> in wood. It's certainly more fun than creating a mess of sanding dust and
> trying to form a paste of that and glue to fill a void.
>
> I thought it might also work with cork.
>
> YMODV.
>
>> If you have access in your library to "Advanced Custom Rod Building" by
>> Clemens, look on page 104, "Filling the cork." Also, "A Master's Guide
>> to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod" by Garrison and Carmichael, page 216-217,
>> "Cleaning and Repairing the Cork Grip." I haven't bothered to check
>> other such references, but I suspect they would detail the same standard
>> technique for filling minor defects.
>
> Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but I'll
> make a note of them.
>
>
> Chuck Vance (who has one early 80's-vintage Fenwick HMG that needs
> some serious cork work done; probably more like the ring replacement you
> described above, as cockroaches or rats or *something* got into it in
> storage and ate away huge pieces of the grip)

Mindful of the thoughtful observation provided earlier about the problematic
"repairer's access to
tools" and knowing how difficult it can be to find specialty items, I did a
bit of research and found the following probably useful site.....looks like
a fairly complete line of everything you should need:

http://www.cleansweepsupply.com/pages/skugroup7358.html

Good luck.......and feel free to consult with our helpful double-naught
experts if any further problems arise. :)

Wolfgang

[William Claspy]

On 12/7/05 12:49 PM, in article ,
" > wrote:

> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:08:46 -0500, William Claspy >
> wrote:
>
>> I love that book. Garrison seems like he was the double-naught of cane rod
>> building.
>
> He did turn out some pretty decent rods, having taken his, pardon the
> Bond pun, "cue" from some of the early masters of the art.

Well for me, the book is a gem for the illustrations, photographs, and
exquisite step-by-step detail of building a bamboo rod. Right on the money,
penny (to extend the pun just a tad more than it should be.) Though perhaps
the pages and pages at the end filled with tables and graphs is a bit more
engineering than truly necessary?

Whenever I think that I could build one myself, I just look through the book
and end up shaking my head at the intricacies involved. As Carmichael says
in the intro, the book is the culmination of 40 years of rod building by
Garrison. Maybe someday I'll do it. When I do :-) I'll have that book on
one end of the bench.

Bill

(but until that day, I'll just keep mooching off W.K. when I get the 'boo
jones. :-)

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:09:17 -0500, William Claspy >
wrote:

>On 12/7/05 12:49 PM, in article ,
" > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:08:46 -0500, William Claspy >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love that book. Garrison seems like he was the double-naught of cane rod
>>> building.
>>
>> He did turn out some pretty decent rods, having taken his, pardon the
>> Bond pun, "cue" from some of the early masters of the art.
>
>Well for me, the book is a gem for the illustrations, photographs, and
>exquisite step-by-step detail of building a bamboo rod. Right on the money,
>penny (to extend the pun just a tad more than it should be.) Though perhaps
>the pages and pages at the end filled with tables and graphs is a bit more
>engineering than truly necessary?

For the occasional "hobby" builder, yeah, probably, but for someone who
is really into bamboo rod building, especially at the time of
publication of the book, it was about it as far as published info.
Perhaps it is better that they provided extra info rather than let it go
unpublished and perhaps lost, ala much Payne, esp. Ed, and other
"masters" info. Perhaps not - as always, YMMV.

>Whenever I think that I could build one myself, I just look through the book
>and end up shaking my head at the intricacies involved. As Carmichael says
>in the intro, the book is the culmination of 40 years of rod building by
>Garrison. Maybe someday I'll do it. When I do :-) I'll have that book on
>one end of the bench.

If you aren't already familiar with it, you might get ahold of "Idyll of
the Split Bamboo Rod" by George Holden. I'm fairly sure there was at
least one reprint, and should be readily available.

TC,
R

[Conan The Librarian]

wrote:

> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:05:21 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> > wrote:
>
>> IIRC, the OP mentioned a "divot", which seemed like a likely
>>candidate for a patch rather than a sanding dust filler. I honestly
>>don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.
>
>>You're not gluing it to the surrounding cork.
>
> Then I may have misunderstood what you meant as to where you were
> suggesting gluing the new piece/"Dutchman" - ???

I was probably not precise enough in my previous statement. You are
not gluing it to the cork on the sides, but rather the cork below the
patch. In woodworking inlays, you don't attempt to glue the edges of
the inlay, you glue it to the substrate. I'm assuming you would do the
same with cork, but correct me if I'm wrong.

>> Yes, you and the rest of ROFF. :-) I also offered what seemed to
>>me to be a fairly straightforward process for repairing a "divot". It
>>may seem like more trouble than it's worth to you, but I *like* fitting
>>inlays in wood. It's certainly more fun than creating a mess of sanding
>>dust and trying to form a paste of that and glue to fill a void.
>>
>> I thought it might also work with cork.
>
> Heck, I've no problem with "it might work." I just think that the odds
> are heavily against it working, and it not working would probably cause
> more damage. Consider the structure of the materials involved as well
> as likely uses of such a inlay (or parquetry, marquetry) piece versus
> that of a cork fly rod handle. If a "piece patch" is what is called
> for, the split ring method Mike Connor first outlined is what I'd
> suggest.

I understand your point about the uses, but if anything, I'd think
that cork would be more forgiving than wood. Wood inlays are inherently
a tricky business because of the hygroscopic nature of wood, and the
likelihood of having two different woods contracting/expanding at
different rates.

And if it didn't work, then I'd just go to the ring method. :-)

>> Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but I'll
>>make a note of them.
>
> Actually, the Garrison book is a great book, but the handle section is a
> bit thin. I'd suggest either the Clemens or Pfeiffer books with regard
> to handle work, keeping in mind that a lot of the technique described is
> more for full-blown, on-going rod building/finishing rather than an
> occasional repair/replacement job. IOW, building sanding lathes,
> reamers, taper cutters, etc. might be a bit much for very occasional
> use.

Thanks again for the info. And don't worry, I've been known to
build elaborate jigs and templates for one-off jobs in the shop. :-)

>> Chuck Vance (who has one early 80's-vintage Fenwick HMG that
>>needs some serious cork work done; probably more like the ring
>>replacement you described above, as cockroaches or rats or *something*
>>got into it in storage and ate away huge pieces of the grip)
>
> Yep, a complete or near-complete replacement in the way to go on such as
> that. If possible, try to purchase the cork in person or from known
> source. Check out Pfeiffer or Clemens re: cork info or Google "specie
> cork." It's been years since I've needed to track such down, so I'll
> not offer source opinions.

I'll check it out. Heck, this discussion has got me thinking that I
should get after re-doing that grip. In some spots it's almost down to
the blank. I don't know if that means it's a candidate for total
replacement or not. I'm a little leery of trying to remove the reel
seat/spacer, since I don't have any previous experience doing it.


Chuck Vance

[Conan The Librarian]

Wolfgang wrote:

> Mindful of the thoughtful observation provided earlier about the problematic
> "repairer's access to
> tools" and knowing how difficult it can be to find specialty items, I did a
> bit of research and found the following probably useful site.....looks like
> a fairly complete line of everything you should need:
>
> http://www.cleansweepsupply.com/pages/skugroup7358.html
>
> Good luck.......and feel free to consult with our helpful double-naught
> experts if any further problems arise. :)

Heh, heh. :-) Thanks for the tool info. I think I've got about a
dozen of those lying around somewhere. But I'm disappointed; I was
counting on being able to make a major tool purchase just for this project.


Chuck Vance (maybe a lathe?)

[William Claspy]

On 12/7/05 2:37 PM, in article , "Conan The
Librarian" > wrote:

>
> Chuck Vance (maybe a lathe?)

Treadle, of course.

:-)

Bill

[Conan The Librarian]

William Claspy wrote:

> On 12/7/05 2:37 PM, in article , "Conan The
> Librarian" > wrote:
>
>> Chuck Vance (maybe a lathe?)
>
> Treadle, of course.
>
> :-)

Wrong, book breath.

Spring-pole. ;-)


Chuck Vance

[Wolfgang]

"William Claspy" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/7/05 2:37 PM, in article , "Conan The
> Librarian" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Chuck Vance (maybe a lathe?)
>
> Treadle, of course.

There's a old issue of FWW.....mid 70s - early 80s vintage.....that has
plans for a homebuilt treadle lathe. Of course, you probably have to
buy......or make.....some special tools to build it. :)

Wolfgang
which brings me RIGHT back to music theory! :(

[Wolfgang]

"Conan The Librarian" > wrote in message
...
> Wolfgang wrote:
>
>> Mindful of the thoughtful observation provided earlier about the
>> problematic "repairer's access to
>> tools" and knowing how difficult it can be to find specialty items, I did
>> a bit of research and found the following probably useful site.....looks
>> like a fairly complete line of everything you should need:
>>
>> http://www.cleansweepsupply.com/pages/skugroup7358.html
>>
>> Good luck.......and feel free to consult with our helpful double-naught
>> experts if any further problems arise. :)
>
> Heh, heh. :-) Thanks for the tool info. I think I've got about a
> dozen of those lying around somewhere. But I'm disappointed; I was
> counting on being able to make a major tool purchase just for this
> project.

Hm.....

Ever done any smithing? Let's see.....an anvil, a selection of hammers
(flatties, various peens, etc.), tongs, chisels (hot and cold), swages,
files, welding flux, a forge, refractory clay, a couple tons of coal, whet
stones, some used moter oil, a couple of wooden tubs, a 24" diamter chunk of
tree trunk, a decent stock of O2 steel (and whatever scrap you might find
lying about), a grindstone.....and a shed to keep it all in, could easily
set you back....oh, say three or four grand. Why, in no time at all you
could be making your own specialty tools.....knives, carving gouges, etc.*
:)

> Chuck Vance (maybe a lathe?)

See Bill.

Wolfgang
*remember to do all your heat treating on rough pieces......finish shaping,
polishing and sharpening should always be done AFTER hardening and
tempering!

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:34:04 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> wrote:

wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:05:21 -0600, Conan The Librarian
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> IIRC, the OP mentioned a "divot", which seemed like a likely
>>>candidate for a patch rather than a sanding dust filler. I honestly
>>>don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.
>>
>>>You're not gluing it to the surrounding cork.
>>
>> Then I may have misunderstood what you meant as to where you were
>> suggesting gluing the new piece/"Dutchman" - ???
>
> I was probably not precise enough in my previous statement. You are
>not gluing it to the cork on the sides, but rather the cork below the
>patch. In woodworking inlays, you don't attempt to glue the edges of
>the inlay, you glue it to the substrate. I'm assuming you would do the
>same with cork, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Hmmm...first, I've never used, seen, or even heard of a Dutchman used to
repair an inlay, nor do I think it would be an appropriate use, but that
is certainly another of those "YMMV" things. In my experience, a
Dutchman is simply a way to repair/salvage something much larger (a
large, wide plank in a casegood, for example) that merits the handwork
necessary to fit it. And again, in my experience, a Dutchman would be
fully glued, much like a plug.

That said, given the time and effort to precisely cut the recept in the
handle and the corresponding cork "Dutchman," it would be more an goal
in and of itself rather than a practical repair method. And beyond
that, you would be relying on the underlying cork to hold the patch, and
if you didn't glue the edges, I think that would introduce another
weakness in that, unlike the very thin wood inlay where there is no real
edge to hold glue, nor is it necessary, the cork Dutchman would
susceptible to catching and tearing at the edge of the "patch" unless
glued at the edges.

Could, for argument's sake, a patch be done by this method? Yeah, sure.
Should it be done? That would be up to the individual, but I don't
think it would be worth it, and I know that it would be completely
unnecessary excess as far as repair goes, even forgetting the "glue
to...???" issue and whether it would hold.

Heck, you could probably argue for CNC mircocutters with 3D digitizing
input and all sorts of other cool ****, but how many double-naught
rod-building superheroes do you really need to change a lightbulb?

TC,
R

[Wolfgang]

> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:34:04 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> > wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:05:21 -0600, Conan The Librarian
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> IIRC, the OP mentioned a "divot", which seemed like a likely
>>>>candidate for a patch rather than a sanding dust filler. I honestly
>>>>don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.
>>>
>>>>You're not gluing it to the surrounding cork.
>>>
>>> Then I may have misunderstood what you meant as to where you were
>>> suggesting gluing the new piece/"Dutchman" - ???
>>
>> I was probably not precise enough in my previous statement. You are
>>not gluing it to the cork on the sides, but rather the cork below the
>>patch. In woodworking inlays, you don't attempt to glue the edges of
>>the inlay, you glue it to the substrate. I'm assuming you would do the
>>same with cork, but correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Hmmm...first, I've never used, seen, or even heard of a Dutchman used to
> repair an inlay, nor do I think it would be an appropriate use, but that
> is certainly another of those "YMMV" things. In my experience, a
> Dutchman is simply a way to repair/salvage something much larger (a
> large, wide plank in a casegood, for example) that merits the handwork
> necessary to fit it. And again, in my experience, a Dutchman would be
> fully glued, much like a plug.
>
> That said, given the time and effort to precisely cut the recept in the
> handle and the corresponding cork "Dutchman," it would be more an goal
> in and of itself rather than a practical repair method. And beyond
> that, you would be relying on the underlying cork to hold the patch, and
> if you didn't glue the edges, I think that would introduce another
> weakness in that, unlike the very thin wood inlay where there is no real
> edge to hold glue, nor is it necessary, the cork Dutchman would
> susceptible to catching and tearing at the edge of the "patch" unless
> glued at the edges.
>
> Could, for argument's sake, a patch be done by this method? Yeah, sure.
> Should it be done? That would be up to the individual, but I don't
> think it would be worth it, and I know that it would be completely
> unnecessary excess as far as repair goes, even forgetting the "glue
> to...???" issue and whether it would hold.
>
> Heck, you could probably argue for CNC mircocutters with 3D digitizing
> input and all sorts of other cool ****, but how many double-naught
> rod-building superheroes do you really need to change a lightbulb?

Oh for God's sake, you fatuous idiot! You cut out a flat bottomed section
with vertical ends including the blemish. You cut another flat bottomed
piece of fresh cork to fit and stand proud. You cement it in place using
contact cement. You sand it flush. Elapsed time......30-45
minutes.......for someone not particularly adept with tools. Given another
lifetime or two, YOU could probably even mange it.

Wolfgang

[Don Phillipson]

"Tom Nakashima" > wrote in message
...

> I got a pretty good size divot where my index finger touches the cork on
my
> fly-rod. There are a lot of divots but this one is annoying. Is there a
> cork filler on the market, or can you make it yourself? Been to the
hardware
> store, wood filler (not sure if that will do), but no cork filler.

The only satisfactory repair is to replace at least one of the
cork rings. (This was probably said somewhere in the
thread, which I stopped reading when the abuse level
passed X.) The point is that all likely adhesives (to
hold cork crumbs in place) dry harder than cork. This
will sooner or later raise a blister where you touch the handle.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[William Claspy]

On 12/7/05 2:25 PM, in article ,
" > wrote:

> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:09:17 -0500, William Claspy >
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/7/05 12:49 PM, in article ,
>> " > wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:08:46 -0500, William Claspy >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I love that book. Garrison seems like he was the double-naught of cane rod
>>>> building.
>>>
>>> He did turn out some pretty decent rods, having taken his, pardon the
>>> Bond pun, "cue" from some of the early masters of the art.
>>
>> Well for me, the book is a gem for the illustrations, photographs, and
>> exquisite step-by-step detail of building a bamboo rod. Right on the money,
>> penny (to extend the pun just a tad more than it should be.) Though perhaps
>> the pages and pages at the end filled with tables and graphs is a bit more
>> engineering than truly necessary?
>
> For the occasional "hobby" builder, yeah, probably, but for someone who
> is really into bamboo rod building, especially at the time of
> publication of the book, it was about it as far as published info.
> Perhaps it is better that they provided extra info rather than let it go
> unpublished and perhaps lost, ala much Payne, esp. Ed, and other
> "masters" info. Perhaps not - as always, YMMV.

I don't know, I don't know. All of this free sharing of information could
be troublesome, wot? :-)

Point taken. I guess it is that part of the book, the over-the-top
engineering stuff at the back, that puts me off trying my hand at it.

I'll never forget a couple of years back, an article was published in Fine
Woodworking on building Chippendale chairs. It went on for at least a
couple of pages on how to calculate and measure the mortise and tenon that
connects the top rail to the leg- which is an admittedly tricky joint to
complete, angled in several directions etc. The author had lots of
equations and math and such. An issue or two later, a seasoned chair maker
wrote a reply and showed how with a couple of simple tools and in two or
three paragraphs how the same joint could be cut. No equations. Of course,
I haven't tried building a Chippendale chair yet either...

>> Whenever I think that I could build one myself, I just look through the book
>> and end up shaking my head at the intricacies involved. As Carmichael says
>> in the intro, the book is the culmination of 40 years of rod building by
>> Garrison. Maybe someday I'll do it. When I do :-) I'll have that book on
>> one end of the bench.
>
> If you aren't already familiar with it, you might get ahold of "Idyll of
> the Split Bamboo Rod" by George Holden. I'm fairly sure there was at
> least one reprint, and should be readily available.

I'm not familiar with it, beyond the mention of Holden in the Garrison book.
We haven't got it, but there is a copy of the original 1920 edition
downtown. The Derrydale edition (current Derrydale) is still available
apparently. Interesting that the original is "Idyl..." while the modern
edition has "corrected" the title to "Idyll..."

Bill

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:53:49 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:


>Oh for God's sake, you fatuous idiot! You cut out a flat bottomed section
>with vertical ends including the blemish. You cut another flat bottomed
>piece of fresh cork to fit and stand proud. You cement it in place using
>contact cement. You sand it flush. Elapsed time......30-45
>minutes.......for someone not particularly adept with tools. Given another
>lifetime or two, YOU could probably even mange it.

Oh for God's sake, you idiotically idiotic idiot who idiotically tends
to idiotic idiocies! You wrap it with duct tape and go fishing. No
fitting, no sanding, no cement. Elapsed time.....15 seconds...well, for
normal folks. For you, 15 seconds for the tape, too......after spending
43 hours proving how little you know about duct tape. Given another
lifetime or two, you could probably really manage to show how little you
actually learned in this one...

...."fatuous idiot"....hee, hee, hee, AND tee-hee, too,

Eleven-and-a-half eagles......dick

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:31:27 -0500, William Claspy >
wrote:

>On 12/7/05 2:25 PM, in article ,
" > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:09:17 -0500, William Claspy >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/7/05 12:49 PM, in article ,
>>> " > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:08:46 -0500, William Claspy >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I love that book. Garrison seems like he was the double-naught of cane rod
>>>>> building.
>>>>
>>>> He did turn out some pretty decent rods, having taken his, pardon the
>>>> Bond pun, "cue" from some of the early masters of the art.
>>>
>>> Well for me, the book is a gem for the illustrations, photographs, and
>>> exquisite step-by-step detail of building a bamboo rod. Right on the money,
>>> penny (to extend the pun just a tad more than it should be.) Though perhaps
>>> the pages and pages at the end filled with tables and graphs is a bit more
>>> engineering than truly necessary?
>>
>> For the occasional "hobby" builder, yeah, probably, but for someone who
>> is really into bamboo rod building, especially at the time of
>> publication of the book, it was about it as far as published info.
>> Perhaps it is better that they provided extra info rather than let it go
>> unpublished and perhaps lost, ala much Payne, esp. Ed, and other
>> "masters" info. Perhaps not - as always, YMMV.
>
>I don't know, I don't know. All of this free sharing of information could
>be troublesome, wot? :-)
>
>Point taken. I guess it is that part of the book, the over-the-top
>engineering stuff at the back, that puts me off trying my hand at it.
>
>I'll never forget a couple of years back, an article was published in Fine
>Woodworking on building Chippendale chairs. It went on for at least a
>couple of pages on how to calculate and measure the mortise and tenon that
>connects the top rail to the leg- which is an admittedly tricky joint to
>complete, angled in several directions etc. The author had lots of
>equations and math and such. An issue or two later, a seasoned chair maker
>wrote a reply and showed how with a couple of simple tools and in two or
>three paragraphs how the same joint could be cut. No equations. Of course,
>I haven't tried building a Chippendale chair yet either...

I take it you mean the section on developing tapers, and if so, I don't
see why it couldn't be ignored if one were simply making a rod or three
using the many tapers already out there. I'd suspect it would be much
like the joint - if you don't need to know how to calculate such in a
variety of applications (and many, even most, don't), such "quick
tricks" are often a real time-saver. There are all sorts of tricks like
that out there, and some of them are pretty cool. I've gotten a lot of
use from a table of compound cuts (for things like crown moulding), so
it's just "dial in and drop the blade" rather than figure it all out.

>> If you aren't already familiar with it, you might get ahold of "Idyll of
>> the Split Bamboo Rod" by George Holden. I'm fairly sure there was at
>> least one reprint, and should be readily available.
>
>I'm not familiar with it, beyond the mention of Holden in the Garrison book.
>We haven't got it, but there is a copy of the original 1920 edition
>downtown. The Derrydale edition (current Derrydale) is still available
>apparently. Interesting that the original is "Idyl..." while the modern
>edition has "corrected" the title to "Idyll..."

Interesting - don't recall that I've never noticed that. I'm not sure
where my copy is, and given the situation, it may be gone.

TC,
R

[Wolfgang]

> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:53:49 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:
>
>
>>Oh for God's sake, you fatuous idiot! You cut out a flat bottomed section
>>with vertical ends including the blemish. You cut another flat bottomed
>>piece of fresh cork to fit and stand proud. You cement it in place using
>>contact cement. You sand it flush. Elapsed time......30-45
>>minutes.......for someone not particularly adept with tools. Given
>>another
>>lifetime or two, YOU could probably even mange it.
>
> Oh for God's sake, you idiotically idiotic idiot who idiotically tends
> to idiotic idiocies! You wrap it with duct tape and go fishing. No
> fitting, no sanding, no cement. Elapsed time.....15 seconds...well, for
> normal folks. For you, 15 seconds for the tape, too......after spending
> 43 hours proving how little you know about duct tape. Given another
> lifetime or two, you could probably really manage to show how little you
> actually learned in this one...

Come on, dicklet.....break out of the straight jacket. Dare to be somebody.
Tell us just one thing.....one teensy little thing.....that you've actually
done in what we may generously refer to as your life.

> ..."fatuous idiot"....hee, hee, hee, AND tee-hee, too,

O.k., so you REALLY know how to hurt a guy. See.....that's a
start.....that's an accomplishment......right?

> Eleven-and-a-half eagles......dick

You can't imagine how this mantra enhances your status in this group.
Granted, it's nowhere near as imaginative and impressive as "ideology
sucks", but hey, there's no doubting that's it's every bit as pregnant with
meaning.

Wolfgang
who is cut to the quick.....AGAIN!.....but will probably bear up for just
one more round.
and didn't i tell y'all we were gonna have some fun for a few days?
:)

[Tim J.]

Wayne Knight wrote:
> I've done this with three rods so far and two pairs of my wife's
> birkenstocks.

Damned libs. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
---------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

[Wolfgang]

"Tim J." > wrote in message
...
> Wayne Knight wrote:
>> I've done this with three rods so far and two pairs of my wife's
>> birkenstocks.
>
> Damned libs. ;-)

Grossly unfair and stereotypical! :(

Wayne has since acquired many more rods. :)

Wolfgang
or so i've heard.....i dunno.....all i saw was some dumb old book.

[Wayne Knight]

"Conan The Librarian" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:


> Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but I'll
> make a note of them.

Then it can't be a real library <g>

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:14:20 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:


>Come on, dicklet.....break out of the straight jacket. Dare to be somebody.
>Tell us just one thing.....one teensy little thing.....that you've actually
>done in what we may generously refer to as your life.

Hmmm...lessee...OH! I KNOW! I once got Settlesworth the gin...well,
OK, so I didn't actually HAND it to him, I ordered a maid to do it, but
let me tell you, Mumsie was SO proud...and that's what's missing for
kids today - a parent's pride and sharing in their accomplishments...

Ah, memories,
Eleven-and-a-half eagles......dick
....and I almost forgot - I invented the internet...

[Wolfgang]

> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:14:20 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:
>
>
>>Come on, dicklet.....break out of the straight jacket. Dare to be
>>somebody.
>>Tell us just one thing.....one teensy little thing.....that you've
>>actually
>>done in what we may generously refer to as your life.
>
> Hmmm...lessee...OH! I KNOW! I once got Settlesworth the gin...well,
> OK, so I didn't actually HAND it to him, I ordered a maid to do it, but
> let me tell you, Mumsie was SO proud...and that's what's missing for
> kids today - a parent's pride and sharing in their accomplishments...
>
> Ah, memories,
> Eleven-and-a-half eagles......dick
> ...and I almost forgot - I invented the internet...

Still hilarious when serious and dull as actuary tables when trying to be
funny.

And can't find a new shtick to save what you are pleased to think of as your
soul.

How many people in this group would you guess find this desperate crap
amusing? I mean, YOU don't......so why should anyone else?

Um.....you were going to tell something, something......ANYTHING that you
have actually done in your miserable life.

Wolfgang
who's got a shiny new nickel says he simply CAN'T do it. :)

[William Claspy]

On 12/7/05 5:07 PM, in article ,
" > wrote:

>>> If you aren't already familiar with it, you might get ahold of "Idyll of
>>> the Split Bamboo Rod" by George Holden. I'm fairly sure there was at
>>> least one reprint, and should be readily available.
>>
>> I'm not familiar with it, beyond the mention of Holden in the Garrison book.
>> We haven't got it, but there is a copy of the original 1920 edition
>> downtown. The Derrydale edition (current Derrydale) is still available
>> apparently. Interesting that the original is "Idyl..." while the modern
>> edition has "corrected" the title to "Idyll..."
>
> Interesting - don't recall that I've never noticed that.

Hey, I'm a trained professional. Don't try this at home. :-)

> I'm not sure
> where my copy is, and given the situation, it may be gone.

I have some pictures taken by the director of the Tulane library showing the
state of some of their collections. Not pretty. I was actually going to
point to them here on ROFF in an OT post. But then realized that as
devastated as those collections were, they were not people, but books.
Seems kind of trivial in comparison to other things that are now, as you
say, gone. Still and all, hope your copy is high and dry somewhere.

Bill

[Conan The Librarian]

wrote:

> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:34:04 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> > wrote:
>
>> I was probably not precise enough in my previous statement. You are
>>not gluing it to the cork on the sides, but rather the cork below the
>>patch. In woodworking inlays, you don't attempt to glue the edges of
>>the inlay, you glue it to the substrate. I'm assuming you would do the
>>same with cork, but correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Hmmm...first, I've never used, seen, or even heard of a Dutchman used to
> repair an inlay, nor do I think it would be an appropriate use, but that
> is certainly another of those "YMMV" things.

I'm not saying you use a Dutchman to repair an inlay, I'm saying
that the technique is the same. (A Dutchman *is* an inlay.)

> In my experience, a
> Dutchman is simply a way to repair/salvage something much larger (a
> large, wide plank in a casegood, for example) that merits the handwork
> necessary to fit it. And again, in my experience, a Dutchman would be
> fully glued, much like a plug.

You "fully glue" an inlay/Dutchman/whatever by gluing it to the
substrate. If you are trying to glue the edges, much of that surface is
endgrain, and attempting to glue endgrain is a waste of time.

> That said, given the time and effort to precisely cut the recept in the
> handle and the corresponding cork "Dutchman," it would be more an goal
> in and of itself rather than a practical repair method.

That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. Given that logic,
joining casework with dovetails is a goal in and of itself rather than a
practical method of joinery.

> And beyond
> that, you would be relying on the underlying cork to hold the patch, and
> if you didn't glue the edges, I think that would introduce another
> weakness in that, unlike the very thin wood inlay where there is no real
> edge to hold glue, nor is it necessary, the cork Dutchman would
> susceptible to catching and tearing at the edge of the "patch" unless
> glued at the edges.

Not if it's sanded flush with the surrounding cork.

> Could, for argument's sake, a patch be done by this method? Yeah, sure.
> Should it be done? That would be up to the individual, but I don't
> think it would be worth it, and I know that it would be completely
> unnecessary excess as far as repair goes

Well then, don't do it. Leave it for those who have the necessary
skills/tools/desire.

> Heck, you could probably argue for CNC mircocutters with 3D digitizing
> input and all sorts of other cool ****, but how many double-naught
> rod-building superheroes do you really need to change a lightbulb?

Cute, but hardly relevant, given that I'm advocating an ancient form
of repair that can be accomplished with a minimum of tools.


Chuck Vance

[Conan The Librarian]

Wayne Knight wrote:

> "Conan The Librarian" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but I'll
>>make a note of them.
>
> Then it can't be a real library <g>

It's a *research* library. :-)


Chuck Vance (which simply means we don't have the book you're
looking for in *lots* of subjects)

[Tim J.]

Conan The Librarian typed:
> Wayne Knight wrote:
>
>> "Conan The Librarian" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but
>>> I'll make a note of them.
>>
>> Then it can't be a real library <g>
>
> It's a *research* library. :-)

So Wayne is correct. It's just one of those wannabe libraries. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

[Tom Nakashima]

"Wayne Knight" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> For cuts in the cork, I use a different approach a plug cutter drill
> bit to bore the area approx 3/4 the way to rod handle (measure the
> distance then transfer the measurement to the drill bit and wrap tape
> around the bit for use a stopping guide). Then I use a tenon bit to
> drill through the wine cork to make a dowel the same diameter. The
> resulting dowel fits in the plug hole, cut it off as close as possible
> to the rest of the handle and lightly sand to flush. It can sometimes
> be a PITA to get it set but slight twisting helps. In one case I didn't
> even need to use any adhesive.
>
> For small divots, I have a set of tools that doctors use to take a bone
> marrow biopsy, but it's not something readily available at the local
> supply store.
>
> I've done this with three rods so far and two pairs of my wife's
> birkenstocks.
>

I also wear Birkenstocks, the oldest pair of shoes/sandals I ever owned.
They're going on 27 years. They've been recorked 7 times, but I'm sure and
your wife may agree, they're the most comfortable things to put on your
feet.
-tom

[Conan The Librarian]

Tim J. wrote:

> Conan The Librarian typed:
>
>> It's a *research* library. :-)
>
> So Wayne is correct. It's just one of those wannabe libraries. ;-)

No, it's a wannabe *university* ... the library is just fine. ;-)


Chuck Vance (that's why we changed our name to "Texas State
University"; we're not just a "directional school" anymore)

[Wolfgang]

"Tom Nakashima" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Wayne Knight" > wrote in message
> oups.com...

>> ...I've done this with three rods so far and two pairs of my wife's
>> birkenstocks.
>>
>
> I also wear Birkenstocks, the oldest pair of shoes/sandals I ever owned.
> They're going on 27 years. They've been recorked 7 times, but I'm sure and
> your wife may agree, they're the most comfortable things to put on your
> feet.
> -tom


Ah! Now, imagine a hole in the top surface.....where the ball of your foot
makes contact. Would a lump of epoxy be your first choice to fill it? Or
does a patch made of the same material as the original strike you as the
more appropriate candidate? :)

Wolfgang

[Tom Nakashima]

"Wolfgang" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Nakashima" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Wayne Knight" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>
>>> ...I've done this with three rods so far and two pairs of my wife's
>>> birkenstocks.
>>>
>>
>> I also wear Birkenstocks, the oldest pair of shoes/sandals I ever owned.
>> They're going on 27 years. They've been recorked 7 times, but I'm sure
>> and your wife may agree, they're the most comfortable things to put on
>> your feet.
>> -tom
>
>
> Ah! Now, imagine a hole in the top surface.....where the ball of your
> foot makes contact. Would a lump of epoxy be your first choice to fill
> it? Or does a patch made of the same material as the original strike you
> as the more appropriate candidate? :)
>
> Wolfgang

This is very interesting, because I did ask a Birkenstock repair place how
they patch the cork in a worn pair of sandals. They actually cut out a
section of cork and replace it with the same material. It is a rubberized
glue that they use to join the cork sections together. That said, it gives
me an idea to go down to a Shoe repair shop that specializes in Birkenstock
and pick their brains.
-tom

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:44:09 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> wrote:

wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:34:04 -0600, Conan The Librarian
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I was probably not precise enough in my previous statement. You are
>>>not gluing it to the cork on the sides, but rather the cork below the
>>>patch. In woodworking inlays, you don't attempt to glue the edges of
>>>the inlay, you glue it to the substrate. I'm assuming you would do the
>>>same with cork, but correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>> Hmmm...first, I've never used, seen, or even heard of a Dutchman used to
>> repair an inlay, nor do I think it would be an appropriate use, but that
>> is certainly another of those "YMMV" things.
>
> I'm not saying you use a Dutchman to repair an inlay, I'm saying
>that the technique is the same. (A Dutchman *is* an inlay.)

No, not necessarily. Often, a Dutchman is used where there is a
significant localized damage or a defect/hole in a plank. In all
traditional, common uses of a Dutchman of which I am aware (and yet
again, I'd readily agree that such uses are "YMMV"), it would be a real
stretch - even to the point of inaccuracy - to call a Dutchman an
"inlay" when using the word "inlay" as a cabinetmaker/ebeniste would.
Heck, it is often more of a carpentry thing.
>
>> In my experience, a
>> Dutchman is simply a way to repair/salvage something much larger (a
>> large, wide plank in a casegood, for example) that merits the handwork
>> necessary to fit it. And again, in my experience, a Dutchman would be
>> fully glued, much like a plug.
>
> You "fully glue" an inlay/Dutchman/whatever by gluing it to the
>substrate.

Um, with regard to a Dutchman, no. not as a blanket statement, as there
may or not be substrate in which to glue it.

>If you are trying to glue the edges, much of that surface is
>endgrain, and attempting to glue endgrain is a waste of time.

With regard to the Dutchman, no, and no. Think of why a Dutchman isn't
just a round "plug"
>
>> That said, given the time and effort to precisely cut the recept in the
>> handle and the corresponding cork "Dutchman," it would be more an goal
>> in and of itself rather than a practical repair method.
>
> That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. Given that logic,
>joining casework with dovetails is a goal in and of itself rather than a
>practical method of joinery.

Non-sequitur, but it is both. Look at how different dovetailing styles
and techniques developed across the spectrum of fine cabinetmakers, with
those techniques often becoming an intentional or de facto "signature."
But that has nothing to do with repairing cork handles.

>> And beyond
>> that, you would be relying on the underlying cork to hold the patch, and
>> if you didn't glue the edges, I think that would introduce another
>> weakness in that, unlike the very thin wood inlay where there is no real
>> edge to hold glue, nor is it necessary, the cork Dutchman would
>> susceptible to catching and tearing at the edge of the "patch" unless
>> glued at the edges.
>
> Not if it's sanded flush with the surrounding cork.
>
>> Could, for argument's sake, a patch be done by this method? Yeah, sure.
>> Should it be done? That would be up to the individual, but I don't
>> think it would be worth it, and I know that it would be completely
>> unnecessary excess as far as repair goes
>
> Well then, don't do it. Leave it for those who have the necessary
>skills/tools/desire.

I have no intention of even trying it at this point forward, but have no
intention of discouraging anyone who wants to try it out. And if you
have the skills, tools, and most importantly, the desire, I'd say try it
out - and I mean that with no sarcasm whatsoever. OTOH, I would
discourage someone from looking to it as a preferred repair method.

>> Heck, you could probably argue for CNC mircocutters with 3D digitizing
>> input and all sorts of other cool ****,

Actually, I meant this part somewhat seriously, such as in a
manufacturing facility on new, mass-produced handles doing, ahem,
insetting on new handles designed for such.

>
> Cute, but hardly relevant, given that I'm advocating an ancient form
>of repair that can be accomplished with a minimum of tools.

Well, I'm not sure of your definition of "ancient," and moreover, I
think you'll find that putting a Dutchman in a cork handle won't be
worth the effort, I also think it will _generally_ fail, which is not
to say that a particular person, using a _relatively_ extreme (as
compared to simply re-ringing) amount of time and care couldn't do it,
just that it isn't in any sense a preferred method.

TC,
R

[Conan The Librarian]

wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:44:09 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> > wrote:
>
>> I'm not saying you use a Dutchman to repair an inlay, I'm saying
>>that the technique is the same. (A Dutchman *is* an inlay.)
>
> No, not necessarily. Often, a Dutchman is used where there is a
> significant localized damage or a defect/hole in a plank. In all
> traditional, common uses of a Dutchman of which I am aware (and yet
> again, I'd readily agree that such uses are "YMMV"), it would be a real
> stretch - even to the point of inaccuracy - to call a Dutchman an
> "inlay" when using the word "inlay" as a cabinetmaker/ebeniste would.
> Heck, it is often more of a carpentry thing.

I'm not sure exactly what you're hoping to prove here. You've taken
this far afield from my original point, which was that a Dutchman-like
repair would be a valid option, and it *would* be glued to the substrate.

>>If you are trying to glue the edges, much of that surface is
>>endgrain, and attempting to glue endgrain is a waste of time.
>
> With regard to the Dutchman, no, and no. Think of why a Dutchman isn't
> just a round "plug"



>>>That said, given the time and effort to precisely cut the recept in the
>>>handle and the corresponding cork "Dutchman," it would be more an goal
>>>in and of itself rather than a practical repair method.
>>
>> That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. Given that logic,
>>joining casework with dovetails is a goal in and of itself rather than a
>>practical method of joinery.
>
> Non-sequitur, but it is both. Look at how different dovetailing styles
> and techniques developed across the spectrum of fine cabinetmakers, with
> those techniques often becoming an intentional or de facto "signature."
> But that has nothing to do with repairing cork handles.

Dovetails were popular because they were the best way to hold
casework together before reliable glues were available. I.e., if the
glue failed, there was still a chance of the joint holding together.
(Hell, I've cut dovetails that didn't even require gluing.) They later
became a "signature".

>> Well then, don't do it. Leave it for those who have the necessary
>>skills/tools/desire.
>
> I have no intention of even trying it at this point forward, but have no
> intention of discouraging anyone who wants to try it out. And if you
> have the skills, tools, and most importantly, the desire, I'd say try it
> out - and I mean that with no sarcasm whatsoever. OTOH, I would
> discourage someone from looking to it as a preferred repair method.

I think we all get that. :-) But frankly, I see more advatnages to
using a cork "insert" (avoiding terms like "inlay" and "Dutchman" so we
don't go off on another merry tangent) than cork dust and glue.

>> Cute, but hardly relevant, given that I'm advocating an ancient form
>>of repair that can be accomplished with a minimum of tools.
>
> Well, I'm not sure of your definition of "ancient," and moreover, I
> think you'll find that putting a Dutchman in a cork handle won't be
> worth the effort, I also think it will _generally_ fail, which is not
> to say that a particular person, using a _relatively_ extreme (as
> compared to simply re-ringing) amount of time and care couldn't do it,
> just that it isn't in any sense a preferred method.

Yes, I know you believe all that.


Chuck Vance

[Wayne Knight]

Tom Nakashima wrote:

> it gives
> me an idea to go down to a Shoe repair shop that specializes in Birkenstock
> and pick their brains.

Which is where I picked up on the technique I described. :)
Their cork cleaner is great for cleaning the cork on rods too.

[Wayne Knight]

Conan The Librarian wrote:
>
> It's a *research* library. :-)
>

Obviously they ain't researching something worthwhile, like making
flyrods perhaps?

Wayne
:-) back at ya

[[email protected]]

>
> I think we all get that. :-) But frankly, I see more advatnages to
>using a cork "insert" (avoiding terms like "inlay" and "Dutchman" so we
>don't go off on another merry tangent) than cork dust and glue.

I didn't bring up, much less suggest, the use of a Dutchman or inlays,
you did. I'm not sure who first used the term "insert" in this thread,
but it doesn't really matter. Here are the two preferred methods of
properly repairing ring-type cork handles: if the damage is small, use
cork dust and one of the less-hard-drying glues. If the damage is
larger or the cork is deteriorated, replace one or more rings. You are,
of course, free to use whatever method(s) you prefer.

Some final things you may wish to consider: people regularly spend lots
of time doing fancy wraps, shaping handles, etc. People regularly do
multicolor ringing and even multi-material ringing on ring-style
handles, and there are sheet-cork inserts on moulded material handles.
People have been doing such for 100-plus years. People have never
regularly or with any great success done cork "inlays" or whatever you
wish to call them even on _new_ cork handles, where lathes and other
devices can easily be used.

TC,
R

[Wayne Knight]

Tim J. wrote:
>
> Damned libs. ;-)
>

My wife and I are complete opposites in many things. Recreation, Food,
Entertainment, Money, and most importantly Politics. She is a dyed in
the wool conservative republican.

So take your sterotype and stick it where the sun don't shine Timmay ;)


Somehow we will celebrate our 28th wedding anniversary this Dec 30th.

Wayne

[William Claspy]

On 12/8/05 12:30 PM, in article
om, "Wayne Knight"
> wrote:

>
> Conan The Librarian wrote:
>>
>> It's a *research* library. :-)
>>
>
> Obviously they ain't researching something worthwhile, like making
> flyrods perhaps?
>
> Wayne
> :-) back at ya

The cool thing that seemed to happen here is that we got a big donation of
books, maybe 50 years ago, from an alumnus and board member who was one of
those wealthy medical doctor, fly angler types who also liked books. That's
where most of our good stuff came from, the early Derrydales and such.

I should hit up someone in Mechanical Engineering or Materials and see if
they can put together a class on bamboo rod mechanics.

Bill

[Tom Nakashima]

"Wayne Knight" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>
> My wife and I are complete opposites in many things. Recreation, Food,
> Entertainment, Money, and most importantly Politics. She is a dyed in
> the wool conservative republican.
>
> Somehow we will celebrate our 28th wedding anniversary this Dec 30th.
>
> Wayne
>

Congratulations Wayne!
28 years together is something to be proud of. Guess you heard this one
before; "today a Tabasco sauce in the fridge last longer than most
marriages". I'll be going on 25 married years in March of next year, the
silver anniv they call it. The only other thing I own silver is two
fillings. I think we appreciate eachother even more as we get older. We
had our squabbles, but the good times outweigh them.
-tom

[Conan The Librarian]

wrote:

>> I think we all get that. :-) But frankly, I see more advatnages to
>>using a cork "insert" (avoiding terms like "inlay" and "Dutchman" so we
>>don't go off on another merry tangent) than cork dust and glue.
>
> I didn't bring up, much less suggest, the use of a Dutchman or inlays,
> you did.

Yes, I did. I brought up the Dutchman because it gave me the idea
for another way to fix the OP's problem.

> I'm not sure who first used the term "insert" in this thread,
> but it doesn't really matter. Here are the two preferred methods of
> properly repairing ring-type cork handles: if the damage is small, use
> cork dust and one of the less-hard-drying glues. If the damage is
> larger or the cork is deteriorated, replace one or more rings. You are,
> of course, free to use whatever method(s) you prefer.

Yes, and I have yet to see you present any valid evidence that my
suggested method wouldn't work. And in fact, I have seen at least two
other posters suggest similar techniques.

> Some final things you may wish to consider: people regularly spend lots
> of time doing fancy wraps, shaping handles, etc. People regularly do
> multicolor ringing and even multi-material ringing on ring-style
> handles, and there are sheet-cork inserts on moulded material handles.
> People have been doing such for 100-plus years. People have never
> regularly or with any great success done cork "inlays" or whatever you
> wish to call them even on _new_ cork handles, where lathes and other
> devices can easily be used.

Hmmm ... "with any great success" implies that you have seen them
done and seen them fail. Is that so?


Chuck Vance

[Conan The Librarian]

Wayne Knight wrote:

> Conan The Librarian wrote:
>
>> It's a *research* library. :-)
>
> Obviously they ain't researching something worthwhile, like making
> flyrods perhaps?
>
> Wayne
> :-) back at ya

Heh. No, as far as I know, Texas State doesn't have a Department of
Fly Rod Studies. :-)


Chuck Vance (but I'd be the first in line for Bamboo Rod Making 101)

[Wayne Knight]

William Claspy wrote:

>
> The cool thing that seemed to happen here is that we got a big donation of
> books, maybe 50 years ago, from an alumnus and board member who was one of
> those wealthy medical doctor, fly angler types who also liked books. That's
> where most of our good stuff came from, the early Derrydales and such.
>

Which brings the question, let's say an average Joe had a selection of
outdoor books, most of which are *run of the mill*, but maybe a couple
of interest to collectors; would a library such as yours or a research
library in Texas have intrest in such a gift, or should the estate just
have a yard sale?

[Tim J.]

Wayne Knight typed:
> Tim J. wrote:
>>
>> Damned libs. ;-)
>>
>
> My wife and I are complete opposites in many things. Recreation, Food,
> Entertainment, Money, and most importantly Politics. She is a dyed in
> the wool conservative republican.
>
> So take your sterotype and stick it where the sun don't shine Timmay
> ;)

One Birkenstock up the shoot - got it.

> Somehow we will celebrate our 28th wedding anniversary this Dec 30th.

Congrats, old feller. My wife and I did our 30th last June.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

[[email protected]]

On 7 Dec 2005 14:19:25 -0800, "Wayne Knight" >
wrote:

>
>Tom Nakashima wrote:
>> I got a pretty good size divot where my index finger touches the cork on my
>> fly-rod. There are a lot of divots but this one is annoying. Is there a
>> cork filler on the market, or can you make it yourself? Been to the hardware
>> store, wood filler (not sure if that will do), but no cork filler.
>>
>
>For cuts in the cork, I use a different approach a plug cutter drill
>bit to bore the area approx 3/4 the way to rod handle (measure the
>distance then transfer the measurement to the drill bit and wrap tape
>around the bit for use a stopping guide). Then I use a tenon bit to
>drill through the wine cork to make a dowel the same diameter. The
>resulting dowel fits in the plug hole, cut it off as close as possible
>to the rest of the handle and lightly sand to flush. It can sometimes
>be a PITA to get it set but slight twisting helps. In one case I didn't
>even need to use any adhesive.
>
I'm not trying to get another this way versus that way sub-thread
started, but I have a couple of questions:

When you say "plug cutter drill bit," are you referring to the
thick-walled tool used to cut plugs to be popped out of a block of wood
for, for example, covering screw/bolt counterbore holes?

Do you mean mortising, rather than tenon, bit/chisel, or ???

I think I know what you are suggesting, but I'm not sure, given the
terms.

IAC, if you need to do this again, and don't want to do it right <G>,
maybe try a SH-A-A-RP!! Forstner bit, by hand, on the handle, with the
handle blocked in a vice or similar (just to hold it steady - it
shouldn't take much pressure). Then either sand down the wine cork with
it chucked in a drill (not my choice, for several reasons) or cut a plug
from a ring.

TC,
R

[Wayne Knight]

Tom Nakashima wrote:

> had our squabbles, but the good times outweigh them.

Agree. Thanks for the good wishes Tom and congrats on yours.

Wayne

[Conan The Librarian]

wrote:

> On 7 Dec 2005 14:19:25 -0800, "Wayne Knight" >
> wrote:
>
>>For cuts in the cork, I use a different approach a plug cutter drill
>>bit to bore the area approx 3/4 the way to rod handle (measure the
>>distance then transfer the measurement to the drill bit and wrap tape
>>around the bit for use a stopping guide). Then I use a tenon bit to
>>drill through the wine cork to make a dowel the same diameter. The
>>resulting dowel fits in the plug hole, cut it off as close as possible
>>to the rest of the handle and lightly sand to flush. It can sometimes
>>be a PITA to get it set but slight twisting helps. In one case I didn't
>>even need to use any adhesive.
>
> I'm not trying to get another this way versus that way sub-thread
> started, but I have a couple of questions:
>
> When you say "plug cutter drill bit," are you referring to the
> thick-walled tool used to cut plugs to be popped out of a block of wood
> for, for example, covering screw/bolt counterbore holes?

Not to speak for Wayne, but yeah ...

> Do you mean mortising, rather than tenon, bit/chisel, or ???

He's referring to a bit that cuts a round "tenon" on the end of a
piece of wood. They're useful for chairmaking and a few other workshop
tasks.


Chuck Vance

[William Claspy]

On 12/8/05 1:07 PM, in article
. com, "Wayne Knight"
> wrote:

> William Claspy wrote:
>
>>
>> The cool thing that seemed to happen here is that we got a big donation of
>> books, maybe 50 years ago, from an alumnus and board member who was one of
>> those wealthy medical doctor, fly angler types who also liked books. That's
>> where most of our good stuff came from, the early Derrydales and such.
>>
>
> Which brings the question, let's say an average Joe had a selection of
> outdoor books, most of which are *run of the mill*, but maybe a couple
> of interest to collectors; would a library such as yours or a research
> library in Texas have intrest in such a gift, or should the estate just
> have a yard sale?

The flippant answer is that they should let me have dibs, THEN have a yard
sale. :-)

The real answer is... well... it depends. Back in the day, we pretty much
accepted any gift of books. And in that specific case, it was, as I said, a
wealthy alum who was also on the board. So yup, we'll accept them :-)
These days, with space problems being what they are, we are more reluctant
and choosy about what we accept. For example, my father (alum and emeritus,
but not on the board :-) had many shelves worth of books that he wanted to
donate, but the bulk of them were 1950s-1970's vintage physics and
engineering texts, which are quite run of the mill and which we already have
(and don't circulate much any more.) Stuff like that we turn down a lot.
If your situation is actual, rather than hypothetical, our library wouldn't
be a good match. We happen to have some nice fishing stuff, but it isn't
(unfortunately!) a collection we are actively maintaining or adding to.

In general, for a gift of books all of a specific genre, particularly when
it is a high quality collection, the donor can target a library that
specializes in that genre. I have a friend who owns an original handwritten
Civil War diary of a private from a New York regiment- I suggested the New
York Historical Society. For fly fishing books, I'd (reluctantly :-) point
the donor to the University of New Hampshire. When the items go to a place
like this, it is likely that they will be used, carefully and correctly
cataloged, studied, etc. Of course many times, unless the items are unique,
a place with a big collection will already own them.

In which case, just let me have 'em already, Wayne!

Bill

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:29:00 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> wrote:

wrote:
>
>> On 7 Dec 2005 14:19:25 -0800, "Wayne Knight" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>For cuts in the cork, I use a different approach a plug cutter drill
>>>bit to bore the area approx 3/4 the way to rod handle (measure the
>>>distance then transfer the measurement to the drill bit and wrap tape
>>>around the bit for use a stopping guide). Then I use a tenon bit to
>>>drill through the wine cork to make a dowel the same diameter. The
>>>resulting dowel fits in the plug hole, cut it off as close as possible
>>>to the rest of the handle and lightly sand to flush. It can sometimes
>>>be a PITA to get it set but slight twisting helps. In one case I didn't
>>>even need to use any adhesive.
>>
>> I'm not trying to get another this way versus that way sub-thread
>> started, but I have a couple of questions:
>>
>> When you say "plug cutter drill bit," are you referring to the
>> thick-walled tool used to cut plugs to be popped out of a block of wood
>> for, for example, covering screw/bolt counterbore holes?
>
> Not to speak for Wayne, but yeah ...

Um, if you're not to speak for him...
>
>> Do you mean mortising, rather than tenon, bit/chisel, or ???
>
> He's referring to a bit that cuts a round "tenon" on the end of a
>piece of wood. They're useful for chairmaking and a few other workshop
>tasks.

Assuming you are correct, and he did mean tenon cutter, it is really
just another, ahem, thick-walled plug-cutter (in fact, many such bits
are dual-purpose tenon/plug cutters), so OK, so two cutters, one of
which is going to need to have the exact same ID as the other's OD, and
most commonly, both are tools whose ID is the only dimension typically
noted. But hey, if you've got a range of tenon cutters and a
plug-cutting set (or a combo set) handy, what's a little mic'ing. Oh,
and given the construction of the typical cutters of this type, now we
need some way to obtain sufficient speed as to not tear either the
handle cork or the plug stock and some way of holding the wine cork to
safely and accurately cut a plug from it. And so on, and so on...

HTH,
R

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:55:12 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> wrote:


> Hmmm ... "with any great success" implies that you have seen them
>done and seen them fail. Is that so?

Hmmm...if you were concerned about that little tidbit of info, it might
have been a little better to ask about it early on - as always, YMMV...

TC,
R
....and BTW, yes. And I've tried a variety of methods to repair handles
and grips, learning in the process that there is usually a reason why
the "preferred methods" are generally, well, er, preferred (admittedly
not _always_ absolutely)...but, hey, ask Frank Reid about his buddy in
the tails and TnCs...

[Wolfgang]

> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:55:12 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> > wrote:
>
>
>> Hmmm ... "with any great success" implies that you have seen them
>>done and seen them fail. Is that so?
>
> Hmmm...if you were concerned about that little tidbit of info, it might
> have been a little better to ask about it early on - as always, YMMV...
>
> TC,
> R
> ...and BTW, yes. And I've tried a variety of methods to repair handles
> and grips, learning in the process that there is usually a reason why
> the "preferred methods" are generally, well, er, preferred (admittedly
> not _always_ absolutely)...but, hey, ask Frank Reid about his buddy in
> the tails and TnCs...

Ah, dicklet, you are positively a SCREAM! :)

Assuming (just for the moment.....because it's fun) that "preferred methods"
actually means something in the current context, a couple of questions
arise:

1: Again, just who is this two left hand and all thumbs abortion of a fix
preferred by?
2: Is the skill level of a couple of chubs who find complex machinery like
a knife, a bit of glue, and sandpaper too daunting to contemplate a standard
we should ALL aspire to?
3: Do you honestly believe that your contributions to this discussion can
possibly be seen by anyone as anything but hilarious?
4: Do you honestly believe that at this late date you can actually convince
anyone that you have ever done ANYTHING?

It is mindboggling but evidently inescapable that once again you have
absolutely no idea of what is being done to you. Come to think of it, this
is probably a natural consequence of never having done anything
yourself.....and so on and so on. :)

Wolfgang

[rw]

William Claspy wrote:
>
> I should hit up someone in Mechanical Engineering or Materials and see if
> they can put together a class on bamboo rod mechanics.

I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering from CWRU. They didn't cover
bamboo in the classes I took. In any case, bamboo rod mechanics is no
different from any-other-material rod mechanics. Just get the parameters
right. Of course, somewhere along the line, you'll lose the mystical,
magical, ineffable 'booness of bamboo, which cannot be expressed in an
equation. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Wayne Knight]

> wrote in message
...
> On 7 Dec 2005 14:19:25 -0800, "Wayne Knight" >
> wrote:
>
> I'm not trying to get another this way versus that way sub-thread
> started, but I have a couple of questions:
>
> When you say "plug cutter drill bit," are you referring to the
> thick-walled tool used to cut plugs to be popped out of a block of wood
> for, for example, covering screw/bolt counterbore holes?

How about a yes but, not all of them are thick walled, i have a specialty
set that is very fine walled and not meant to drill any wood thicker than a
good laminate. They were made in Europe and were a barter with the
birkenstock guy.

>
> Do you mean mortising, rather than tenon, bit/chisel, or ???
>

It is called a tenon bit but the use is basically similar. However these are
also used to make dowel pins.

> IAC, if you need to do this again, and don't want to do it right <G>,

Why do something if you don't want to do it the correct way? otherwise I'll
do my stuff the left way thank you very much :)

> maybe try a SH-A-A-RP!! Forstner bit, by hand, on the handle, with the
> handle blocked in a vice or similar (just to hold it steady - it
> shouldn't take much pressure). Then either sand down the wine cork with
> it chucked in a drill (not my choice, for several reasons) or cut a plug
> from a ring.

I guess you could do it with a forstner bit but I'm not going to try. And
why do it by hand drill and vice when I have a perfectly good drill press
and clamp system?

After my daughter unwraps her Christmas present and learns to use it, I will
take a picture of a rod I did that to and post it to abpf.

Wayne

[Conan The Librarian]

wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:55:12 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> > wrote:
>
>> Hmmm ... "with any great success" implies that you have seen them
>>done and seen them fail. Is that so?
>
> Hmmm...if you were concerned about that little tidbit of info, it might
> have been a little better to ask about it early on - as always, YMMV...

My only concern is seeing if you actually have any firsthand
knowledge, or are just engaging in so much handwaving.

> TC,
> R
> ...and BTW, yes. And I've tried a variety of methods to repair handles
> and grips, learning in the process that there is usually a reason why
> the "preferred methods" are generally, well, er, preferred (admittedly
> not _always_ absolutely)...but, hey, ask Frank Reid about his buddy in
> the tails and TnCs...

So you have tried an insert? Yes or no? If so, please decribe how
you went about it.


Chuck Vance

[Conan The Librarian]

wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:29:00 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> > wrote:
>
>> He's referring to a bit that cuts a round "tenon" on the end of a
>>piece of wood. They're useful for chairmaking and a few other workshop
>>tasks.
>
> Assuming you are correct, and he did mean tenon cutter,

What else do you think he meant?


Chuck Vance

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 23:48:10 -0500, "Wayne Knight"
> wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> On 7 Dec 2005 14:19:25 -0800, "Wayne Knight" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm not trying to get another this way versus that way sub-thread
>> started, but I have a couple of questions:
>>
>> When you say "plug cutter drill bit," are you referring to the
>> thick-walled tool used to cut plugs to be popped out of a block of wood
>> for, for example, covering screw/bolt counterbore holes?
>
>How about a yes but, not all of them are thick walled, i have a specialty
>set that is very fine walled and not meant to drill any wood thicker than a
>good laminate. They were made in Europe and were a barter with the
>birkenstock guy.

Ah, so - common, everyday tools.

>I guess you could do it with a forstner bit but I'm not going to try. And
>why do it by hand drill and vice when I have a perfectly good drill press
>and clamp system?

You might still try the Forstner bit - that way, no need to dig the cut
plug out of the handle.

>After my daughter unwraps her Christmas present and learns to use it, I will
>take a picture of a rod I did that to and post it to abpf.

I'd like to see it - please post a pointer when posted.

TC,
R
....and those without hard-to-obtain biopsy tools, European specialty
cutters from birkenstock, Forstner bit sets, etc., might wish to try
either cork dust and appropriate adhesive on small repairs and replacing
one or more rings on larger repairs...those with them, too...

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 07:22:41 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> wrote:

wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:29:00 -0600, Conan The Librarian
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> He's referring to a bit that cuts a round "tenon" on the end of a
>>>piece of wood. They're useful for chairmaking and a few other workshop
>>>tasks.
>>
>> Assuming you are correct, and he did mean tenon cutter,
>
> What else do you think he meant?

A specialty variant of thin-walled European cutters...

....and now, just for grins, let's stay with the metric trend and convert
the mic reading on the OD of the aforementioned cutter from thousandths
to mm to fractional inches...

H _T_ H,
R

[Tim J.]

typed:
> On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 07:22:41 -0600, Conan The Librarian
> > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:29:00 -0600, Conan The Librarian
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> He's referring to a bit that cuts a round "tenon" on the end of a
>>>> piece of wood. They're useful for chairmaking and a few other
>>>> workshop tasks.
>>>
>>> Assuming you are correct, and he did mean tenon cutter,
>>
>> What else do you think he meant?
>
> A specialty variant of thin-walled European cutters...
>
> ...and now, just for grins, let's stay with the metric trend and
> convert the mic reading on the OD of the aforementioned cutter from
> thousandths to mm to fractional inches...

All I know after reading this thread is that, when the time calls for
repair, I'm buyin' a new freakin' rod.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

[Conan The Librarian]

Tim J. wrote:

> All I know after reading this thread is that, when the time calls for
> repair, I'm buyin' a new freakin' rod.

Priceless. :-)


Chuck Vance

[Wayne Knight]

wrote:

> ...and those without hard-to-obtain biopsy tools, European specialty
> cutters from birkenstock, Forstner bit sets, etc., might wish to try
> either cork dust and appropriate adhesive on small repairs and replacing
> one or more rings on larger repairs...those with them, too...

Did someone say hard to obtain?

thin walled button cutter bits
http://www.shopsmartxpress.com/AmeriGls/AmrDefault.htm?M9.htm

bone marrow biopsy tools?
http://www.jorvet.com/products/css/Catalog_109.html

Probably everyone who fly fishes has one surgical tool in their
possession.