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View Full Version : TR for the Bighorn Micro Clave and a Trip to Chas's


Warren
September 21st, 2003, 05:40 AM
RW showed up to my house on a Wednesday evening. I threw a=20
couple steaks on the grill and we had a few beers as we made=20
plans to fish the Gallatin on Thursday. Thursday morning came=20
all too early and it was pretty windy. After getting a late=20
start due to a few errands I had to run we headed up into "the=20
Canyon" section to try and get out of some of the wind. We=20
found a decent spot and checked the water temps to make sure=20
we were within the upper optimal limit and then rigged up. RW=20
started off with nymphs while I, being a real fly fisherman,=20
started out with a parachute Adams. I caught a few fish on=20
dries, RW caught a few fish on nymphs and then switched to=20
dries when we found some rising fish. That RW=85=85I think he will=20
make a real fly fisherman someday.

Friday morning at zero dark thirty we headed down to the=20
Bighorn to meet up with Willi, Snoop Spongey Bob, and Snoop's=20
friend Kevin for the Micro Clave. Since there were five of us=20
we qualified for Micro Clave status instead of Nano Clave=20
status, which is 2-4 people versus Pico Clave status, which is=20
wayno fishing for 6" brookies by himself. We did a short float=20
after meeting up and caught some fish. There weren't as many=20
fish as I am used to seeing, but there were plenty of bigger=20
fish than I am used to seeing on my trips to the Horn. When=20
fishing was first opened up on the Bighorn to the public the=20
waters were loaded with big fish and with time was over-
fished. Restrictive limits were put in place to help the=20
fishery and it has since bounced back. The good old days of no=20
holds barred slaughter fishing and a total lack of foresight=20
are sadly over.

I sure do miss the good ol' days though. We saw several river=20
pimp boats that were getting their clients into fish by mainly=20
nymphing. They would drift down a nice run and catch a few=20
fish and then pull off to the slow side of the river and row=20
back upstream to make another pass. It was a very interesting=20
technique and looked very effective. This isn't the only way=20
to fish the Horn however and can actually get sort of annoying=20
at times due to the vast amount of overcrowding. Those three=20
guide boats would keep doing this down and up routine while=20
other boats had to try and avoid potential collisions on the=20
very calm water. I also noticed something that I haven't seen=20
before happen. It seemed like in certain areas flocks of=20
fishermen would congregate on a nice run and fan out for some=20
combat fishing. The water would be totally open upstream and=20
downstream for as far as you could see, but people would still=20
group together like that. We would just keep on going and find=20
a nice place to ourselves. I still don't understand why that=20
was happening since there are fish all over the river.

Here's Snoop Spongey Bob fishing an area that was not crowded=20
and with nobody else in sight. =20
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/rw/DCP_0876.JPG

A nice shot of the sun setting and "Team Gink."
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/rw/DCP_0877.JPG

As I said before the wind was bad at times and this continued=20
on into Saturday and Sunday. It would go from dead calm and=20
partly cloudy to downpours with big hail and enough wind to=20
blow boats back upstream. It was a total battle of extremes=20
in terms of weather but thankfully the snow level didn't drop=20
into the valley. We also saw lots of insects during the calm=20
periods. Everything from a few PMDs to BWOs to clouds of black=20
caddis and so we often would find nice pockets of rising fish=20
to fish dries to.=20

Black caddis swarming RW.
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/rw/DCP_0891.JPG

Willi is another real fly fisherman and caught several nice=20
fish on dries and was the only person to catch fish in our=20
group except for everybody else.=20

Willi with fish:
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/rw/DCP_0896.JPG
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/rw/DCP_0909.JPG

RW with fish:
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/rw/DCP_0908.JPG

I wish I would have had a camera with me so I could have=20
gotten pics of Kevin and Snoop with fish.....

All fish caught during this trip were caught using mono=20
because it is biodegradable and we wanted to be ethical fly=20
fishermen. The best part of fly fishing is the casting after=20
all and using fluorocarbon would have interfered with our=20
casting since we would have undoubtedly caught all the fish in=20
the river.

I think Bruiser would have enjoyed this place even more than=20
Willi, who seemed to be in total awe at the numbers of big=20
fish rising. The Bighorn can also be highly technical nymph=20
fishing at times with everything from San Juan style midge=20
patterns to scuds and streamers. It can be a problem trying=20
to figure out what the fish are feeding on the most and=20
presentation is a big part of the game. If one fish was=20
feeding only on a certain type of aquatic insect, you could=20
simply move on to another fish and probably catch him or you=20
could change flies and really test your skills against=20
specific fish. Lots of fun. Especially when you can come back=20
to a nice hot meal at the end of the day and listen to Snoop=20
and RW talk about Sponge Bob cartoons....

End of the day on the Bighorn:
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/rw/DCP_0905.JPG


On Sunday after Willi, Snoop and Kevin left, RW and I=20
continued fishing. We saw something rather disgusting that I=20
thought I would share. I know this topic has come up in the=20
past and so I thought perhaps I would throw another example of=20
a total ****head out there. There was a big concrete block=20
thing that made a really nice eddy. People would climb up on=20
this block and throw spin gear, haul fish out of the water,=20
handle them with dry hands and then throw them back. That=20
wasn't the most disgusting display we saw however. This guy=20
came down to fish up by RW and caught a very nice rainbow in=20
the 20" range. He lands the fish, drops the fish on the rocks=20
several times, lets the fish thrash around in the rocks and=20
dirt while yelling for his girlfriend. Several minutes later=20
the girlfriend arrives and this guy has just left this big=20
rainbow on the bank flopping around so she can see it. She=20
comes and looks at the fish, picks it up, drops it some more=20
and then they finally release the fish like five minutes=20
later. That combined with the trash left from those types of=20
anglers really has me convinced that something needs to be=20
done to educate anglers.

Fly fishermen seem to be heading in the right direction and=20
the bass fishing crowd seems to be doing their part, but there=20
are huge segments of the fishing community that have firmly=20
lodged their heads up their asses. Looking back on it, I=20
should have said something about the way these people were=20
treating the fish but didn't because I didn't witness much of=20
what went on first hand and was just too disgusted after=20
listening to all of the details that RW had witnessed. Later=20
in our trip, Chas asked if signs at public fishing access=20
sites were a good idea. I totally think putting signs up with=20
the regs, handling techniques, etc is a very good idea and may=20
be the only way anglers like these can be educated on proper=20
techniques and river etiquette. Hopefully Chas's fishing club=20
proceeds with the idea and it catches on.

In the end, the fishing on the Bighorn was a little slower=20
than I have had in the past, but the fish seemed to be bigger=20
on average. I had forgotten just how much I liked this river=20
and it was good to get back over there. But like all trips,=20
they come to an end and RW and I headed back over to my house=20
where I was talked into going over to Chas's place for some=20
salmon fishing. This is real salmon fishing, not that lake=20
crap I hear about elsewhere where those fish come in from a=20
lake and you can't tell the difference between the fish other=20
than their geographical location. We arrived at "The Wade=20
Inn" late at night and got a fair amount of camaraderie in=20
before hitting the rack. Chas is an amazing photographer and=20
we had an opportunity to view several of his pictures that=20
were to be in a show later in the week. Now they could never=20
be considered "true art" since they are digital photos, but=20
they are the closest damn approximation of "true art" that I=20
have ever seen. Chas has pictures all over his house that=20
look ever bit as good as, if not better than, those you see in=20
stores for sale. It was a nice touch to the d=E9cor, especially=20
when you learned that he had taken the pics himself. By 2 am=20
we were ready to hit the hay and get up early to go chase=20
salmon.

When you go to bed at two in the morning, seven A.M. comes way=20
too early, especially after a 700 mile drive. I was wore out=20
and I didn't even do any of the driving so I know RW must have=20
been completely exhausted, but we got up and hit the road to=20
go chase some pinks. Chas seemed like he had been preparing=20
for our arrival by scouting out good places to go and had=20
everything in order. After a stop to get licenses, we were=20
headed to the river where Chas had had some luck a day or two
before our arrival. The fishing used to be much better in the=20
old days, but this year has record numbers of pinks ever since=20
they first started keeping records. While rigging up you could=20
see the discoloration in the water where the salmon were. I=20
was the first one rigged up and on the water and within a few=20
casts was into my first humpy. I think that was the best work=20
out that my 6 wt has ever had and I kept getting this nagging=20
feeling that I was going to break my rod, but I landed the=20
fish and several others. Chas and RW were into fish shortly=20
thereafter. It seems that we had followed the storm out west=20
that had plagued us on the Bighorn as it began to rain and=20
then would clear a little only to rain a little more.

Me hooking into my first humpy:
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0016.JPG
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0017.JPG
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0023.JPG

RW with his first humpy:
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0030.JPG
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0033.JPG
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0028.JPG

RW's 8.5 lb humpy:
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0035.JPG

Another shot of RW's biggun' with me way off in the background=20
unhooking another fish:
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0037.JPG

A nice shot of the river we were fishing with Chas:
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0039.JPG

After catching several fish from this one spot, we decided to=20
drive upriver to another spot that Chas had gotten some info=20
on. We found the area after a brief scouting expedition and=20
hit the river again. You could see several pinks from the=20
bank and so we spread out and began casting. RW and Chas=20
seemed to be having more luck than I was so I went upstream to=20
a nice looking piece of water. I wasn't prepared for what I=20
saw when I got there. The river looked almost black from the=20
vast numbers of pinks there and I realized that this was THE=20
spot to be. I quickly caught 9 fish and then lost track. I=20
eventually got Chas and RW to come up and the three of us had=20
several doubles and triples and each landed at least 50 fish=20
apiece. We fished in this area until dark and then headed back=20
to the Wade Inn completely worn out from what RW and I decided=20
was fof (freakin' obscene fishing). RW and I were completely=20
in awe of this type of fishing and I think we are now hooked,=20
at least I am.

The flies we used:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt4/tools.html
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt5/another_good_fly.html

Wednesday found us on another section of the river. Somehow we=20
had forgotten some gear and Chas and his son were without=20
waders. Chas and Glen went down to where we had slayed the=20
fish the day before while RW and I explored a new section of=20
river. Chas let me borrow his 8 wt rod since I still had this=20
nagging feeling that my 6 wt was going to break. RW and I hit=20
the river and started working our way downstream hoping for a=20
day like the day before. The fishing wasn't as good, but I was=20
into fish before we even hit the good spot. On my third fish,=20
Chas's rod broke in two places and I was basically done. It=20
seems that instead of trusting my instinct to switch rods, I=20
should have ignored it and stuck with my 6 wt. Thank God for=20
those marketing ploy/warranties! I did manage to land a couple=20
more fish using the broken rod, but RW was gracious enough to=20
let me take turns using his 9 wt.=20

The fishing was much slower than the day before despite the=20
vast numbers of fish around. Chas had fluorocarbon tippet=20
material rigged up on the reel I was using and so that must=20
have been why I was catching fish while RW wasn't. Or perhaps=20
we were far enough upstream that the fish were more concerned=20
with spawning than eating the tasty morsels that Chas had=20
tied. RW did end up catching a nice Dolly Varden using an=20
orange streamer. Imagine how many he could have caught had he=20
been using fluorocarbon?!?!?! Since we didn't want to be=20
elitist, snob fly fishermen, RW and I decided to keep about 30=20
lbs of salmon since they were going to die after spawning=20
anyway. We made it totally clear by keeping fish that even=20
though our gear said Simms or Sage on it that we were not=20
snobs or asshole C&R fishermen.

Some more fish shots:
http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0055.JPG

I can't begin to explain how fun this trip was. The Wades are=20
awesome hosts and I am very grateful for their hospitality.=20
The fishing was secondary and only made the trip that much=20
better but I am already thinking about another visit in the=20
near future. Unfortunately now begins the hard part, smoking=20
all this salmon and catching up on all the lost sleep=85=85
--=20
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Chas Wade
September 21st, 2003, 08:20 AM
Warren > wrote:
>
.... Awsome, if huge, TR snipped ...

Great report Warren. I wish I'd been at the Bighorn, and I'm delighted
that you came out for the pinks. Too bad more folks didn't show up.
That run is still going, but the Coho are showing up now and stealing
the thunder of the pinks.

I went back to our hot spot this afternoon, and caught fish on several
different flies. The biggest was 7 pounds, well shy of RW's, but a
good fish. I did try a WOG, a floating pink fly, today and had a
couple followers and one half hearted strike. For some reason I had
the entire run to myself on a Saturday afternoon.

Thanks again for coming out, you guys are welcome anytime.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

daytripper
September 21st, 2003, 08:25 AM
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:40:40 -0600, Warren > wrote:

[snipped]
>I can't begin to explain how fun this trip was. The Wades are
>awesome hosts and I am very grateful for their hospitality.
>The fishing was secondary and only made the trip that much
>better but I am already thinking about another visit in the
>near future. Unfortunately now begins the hard part, smoking
>all this salmon and catching up on all the lost sleep

Man, that sounds like you had one hell of a great time. But you really should
know, you guys are twisting the knife in us office-bound types...

/daytripper (my time will come....later, apparently ;-)

Clark Reid
September 21st, 2003, 08:26 AM
Great TR!

--
Clark Reid
http://www.dryflynz.com
Umpqua Designer Flytier

Chas Wade
September 21st, 2003, 08:48 AM
daytripper > wrote:
>
>Man, that sounds like you had one hell of a great time. But you really
>should
>know, you guys are twisting the knife in us office-bound types...
>

Work is overrated.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Clark Reid
September 21st, 2003, 09:42 AM
"Chas Wade" wrote > Work is overrated.
>
> Chas
> http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html


Oh, I don't know about that.... :)

--
Clark Reid
http://www.dryflynz.com
Umpqua Designer Flytier

Frank Reid
September 21st, 2003, 12:00 PM
>> Work is overrated.
>
> Oh, I don't know about that.... :)
> Clark Reid

Work, that is not fly fishing and guiding in a fly fishermans paradise for a
living, whilst hanging out in a lodge with 12,000 bottles of wine and
designing huge, radioactive cicada flies for Umpqua, is over rated.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

Frank Reid
September 21st, 2003, 12:01 PM
RW showed up to my house on a Wednesday evening. <snippage>
--
Warren

Great report Warren.
Frank

B J Conner
September 21st, 2003, 05:56 PM
"Offie Bound" ??
You may have the work virus.

There is a new virus. The code name is "WORK". If you receive WORK from
your colleagues, your boss, via e-mail, or from anyone else-do not touch
WORK under any circumstances. This virus wipes out your private life
completely.
If you should happen to come in contact with this virus, take two friends &
go straight to the nearest bar. Order drinks & after three rounds, you
will find that WORK has been completely deleted from your brain.
Forward this virus warning immediately to at least 5 friends.
should you realize you do not have five friends, this means you are already
infected by this virus & WORK already controls your whole life. If this is
the case, go to the bar & stay until you make at least 5 friends.



"daytripper" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:40:40 -0600, Warren > wrote:
>
> [snipped]
> >I can't begin to explain how fun this trip was. The Wades are
> >awesome hosts and I am very grateful for their hospitality.
> >The fishing was secondary and only made the trip that much
> >better but I am already thinking about another visit in the
> >near future. Unfortunately now begins the hard part, smoking
> >all this salmon and catching up on all the lost sleep
>
> Man, that sounds like you had one hell of a great time. But you really
should
> know, you guys are twisting the knife in us office-bound types...
>
> /daytripper (my time will come....later, apparently ;-)

Marshall Krasser
September 21st, 2003, 06:26 PM
Warren, horrible TR - totally unwarranted!!! Shame on you!!!
I'm now green with envy and will be depressed the rest of the day.
Thanks A LOT!!!

All kidding aside. Looks like ya'll had a great time . . . I can't get away
for a few weeks, so I might drive over to the casting pools just to feel
good about myself.

Interesting, I had to switch over to Google to read your posting - the
Pacbell/Yahoo server did not seem to pick it up and then I cannot
follow the links to your pic's. Can you email your main link to me?

Cheers, Marshall

p.s. don't forget to remove MY_WADERS

--
NOTE: Please remove "MY_WADERS" from my return Email address
if you wish to reply directly. Thanks, M

Bob Weinberger
September 21st, 2003, 07:25 PM
Great Tr Warren.
However, after viewing the pictures of you hooking and landing your first Humpie, I can understand
why you were concerned about breaking your 6wt, and quite possibly why you broke Chas's 8wt.
The angle you are holding the rod relative to the fish's pull places undue strain on the rod.
Although most modern rods can usually withstand a steady pull at that angle, a sudden lunge by a heavy
fish will often break a rod held at that angle. With strong heavy fish, you should try to keep the
angle between the projection of the plane of the rod (if it were not bent) and the pull of the fish at
not much less than 90deg. In the pictures (0016 & 0017.JPG), you appear to be holding an angle of
60deg. or less.
I regularly use a 6wt for steelhead and Coho in strong current much larger than the Humpies you were
catching (my largest on a 6wt is a 22# steelhead), and although I have broken rods other ways, the
only time I have done so on a fish is when I violated the guidelines I stated above. Following those
guidelines, I can land fish in the 5-20# range every bit as fast as those using 8 & 9wt rods can.


--
Bob Weinberger - La Grande, OR

Remove "invalid" and place a dot between bobs and stuff to reply email

Clark Reid
September 21st, 2003, 08:55 PM
"B J Conner" wrote in> "Offie Bound" ??
> You may have the work virus.
>
> There is a new virus. The code name is "WORK". If you receive WORK from
> your colleagues, your boss, via e-mail, or from anyone else-do not touch
> WORK under any circumstances. This virus wipes out your private life
> completely.
> If you should happen to come in contact with this virus, take two friends
&
> go straight to the nearest bar. Order drinks & after three rounds, you
> will find that WORK has been completely deleted from your brain.
> Forward this virus warning immediately to at least 5 friends.
> should you realize you do not have five friends, this means you are
already
> infected by this virus & WORK already controls your whole life. If this is
> the case, go to the bar & stay until you make at least 5 friends.

Good advice, myself and a few other guides have started our own AA...
Athletes Anonomous. It's basically just a support group and works thus:
If a member of the group feels the need to exercise at any point we just
ring someone else in the group and they'll come over and drink with us until
the urge passes.

--
Clark Reid
http://www.dryflynz.com
Umpqua Designer Flytier

Chas Wade
September 21st, 2003, 11:11 PM
"Frank Reid" <moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf> wrote:
>Work, that is not fly fishing and guiding in a fly fishermans paradise
>for a
>living, whilst hanging out in a lodge with 12,000 bottles of wine and
>designing huge, radioactive cicada flies for Umpqua, is over rated.
>
Frank,

Thanks for clarifying that, you knew exactly what I meant.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Chas Wade
September 21st, 2003, 11:23 PM
"Bob Weinberger" > wrote:
>Great Tr Warren.
>However, after viewing the pictures of you hooking and landing your
>first Humpie, I can understand
>why you were concerned about breaking your 6wt, and quite possibly why
>you broke Chas's 8wt.
>The angle you are holding the rod relative to the fish's pull places
>undue strain on the rod.
>Although most modern rods can usually withstand a steady pull at that
>angle, a sudden lunge by a heavy
>fish will often break a rod held at that angle. With strong heavy
>fish, you should try to keep the
>angle between the projection of the plane of the rod (if it were not
>bent) and the pull of the fish at
>not much less than 90deg. In the pictures (0016 & 0017.JPG), you
>appear to be holding an angle of
>60deg. or less.
>I regularly use a 6wt for steelhead and Coho in strong current much
>larger than the Humpies you were
>catching (my largest on a 6wt is a 22# steelhead), and although I have
>broken rods other ways, the
>only time I have done so on a fish is when I violated the guidelines I
>stated above. Following those
>guidelines, I can land fish in the 5-20# range every bit as fast as
>those using 8 & 9wt rods can.
>

I'm with you 100% Bob, but there is more to this than the angle of the
rod. The rod that broke is a Sage RPLX 8wt, and having broken it
myself 4 times and having watched my son break his match for it 3
times, I have to say that there are other more frequent causes. Only
one of those breaks was a result of me sitting on the rod, one was over
my son's back when he was helping me land a 19# pike, and the rest were
"clouser breaks."

Consider the heavy clousers and pike flies that this rod has been
casting. Now and then the fly hits the rod, and the nicks are more
likely the cause of the breaks. We routinely use angles like Warren
was using because we want to get a hold of the fish without the
assistance of a guide. The rod can take a much deeper bend. I suspect
that Warren was the unlucky user after my wife was using the rod. She
did a lot of casting one day, but didn't manage to hook into a fish.
I'm sure the clouser eyed flies hit the rod more than once that day,
and Warren revealed that damage when he was fighting the fish.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

rw
September 22nd, 2003, 12:50 AM
Chas Wade wrote:
>
> I'm with you 100% Bob, but there is more to this than the angle of the
> rod.

I watched Warren play that fish. It was upstream and Warren wasn't
putting undue pressure on it.

I can assure you, Bob, that Warren knows how to play a fish, so relax.

rw
September 22nd, 2003, 01:19 AM
Warren wrote:
>
> Another shot of RW's biggun' with me way off in the background
> unhooking another fish:
> http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/web/chas/DSC_0037.JPG

I foul-hooked this fish in the hump and it got out into the rather
substantial main current of the Skagit and turned sideways. It was one
mother-****ing son-of-bitch to land, even with my 9wt RPLXi. :-)

September 22nd, 2003, 01:37 AM
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:40:40 -0600, Warren > wrote:

>She
>comes and looks at the fish, picks it up, drops it some more
>and then they finally release the fish like five minutes
>later.

Signs are the way to go. I'd be willing to bet that that couple
didn't have any idea they were doing the fish any harm. I know, but
can't understand, there are a few people who will do a harmless
creature damage because they just don't care, but most do it because
they don't know any better.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Darin Minor
September 22nd, 2003, 04:26 AM
Warren wrote:

> The fishing was secondary and only made the trip that much
> better but I am already thinking about another visit in the
> near future.

Next time, come over for a weekend and let me know enough in advance so
that I can make it over there.

Nice TR BTW.

Darin

Darin Minor
September 22nd, 2003, 05:06 AM
rw wrote:

> I was thinking about you, Darin. I asked Chas to point out where (on the
> map) you live, in Port Townsend. This was a spur-of-the-moment trip. I
> had to talk Warren into going while we were on the way back to Bozeman
> from the Bighorn.
>
> Maybe we can arrange a Washington Clave some day? Like maybe next year?
> The pinks won't be running like this year, but I'm sure something else
> will be happening.

We could wait 'till '05 when the pinks will be back but coho run every year.
One thing to remember is that salmon don't keep a deffinate schedule, they
could be late or they could be early, so setting a date might be kind of
tough.

Darin

Bob Weinberger
September 22nd, 2003, 05:09 AM
"rw" > wrote in message
m...

> I watched Warren play that fish. It was upstream and Warren wasn't
> putting undue pressure on it.
>
> I can assure you, Bob, that Warren knows how to play a fish, so relax.
Steve,
I didn't say he was putting undue pressure on the fish, but the angle he is using in the pictures is
putting undue pressure on the ROD. Compare the angle he is using in pictures 0016 and 0017 with the
pictures of you (0030 & 0033) fighting a Humpie. At least as much pressure can be put on the fish
with the angle you used as with the angle that Warren used. However, the stress on the rod is much
greater with the acute angle that he used.

Chas,
While an acute rod angle may be necessary to land a fish by yourself in tight quarters, based on the
room around you guys as shown in the pictures, there was no need at that location. I can appreciate
what you say about clouser nicks, having broken two rods as a result of them while fishing for Cohos
on Kodiak.

BTW I leave for Kodiak day after tomorrow for a week of chasing big Cohos.


--
Bob Weinberger - La Grande, OR

Remove "invalid" and place a dot between bobs and stuff to reply email

rw
September 22nd, 2003, 05:54 AM
Darin Minor wrote:
> Warren wrote:
>
>
>>The fishing was secondary and only made the trip that much
>>better but I am already thinking about another visit in the
>>near future.
>
>
> Next time, come over for a weekend and let me know enough in advance so
> that I can make it over there.
>
> Nice TR BTW.

I was thinking about you, Darin. I asked Chas to point out where (on the
map) you live, in Port Townsend. This was a spur-of-the-moment trip. I
had to talk Warren into going while we were on the way back to Bozeman
from the Bighorn.

Maybe we can arrange a Washington Clave some day? Like maybe next year?
The pinks won't be running like this year, but I'm sure something else
will be happening.

Bob Weinberger
September 22nd, 2003, 06:00 AM
"rw" > wrote in message
m...
> Bob Weinberger wrote:
> >
> > BTW I leave for Kodiak day after tomorrow for a week of chasing big Cohos.
>
> That is like totally cool, Bob.
>
> Can I come? :-)
>

It just so happens that one of our crew had to cancel. If you're really interested, email me ASAP for
details. We have a house right on the Pasagshak River rented from 9/25 to 10/8. Some of us stay the
full two weeks, some are just there the first week, and some come for the second week (6-8 people in
the house at a time). I had planned to stay for the full 2 weeks, but have to leave 10/3 for a
consulting gig in Western WA.
This is my 4th annual trip up there. We don't always have outstanding fishing, but its always better
than any Coho fishing I've had in the lower 48.

--
Bob Weinberger - La Grande, OR

Remove "invalid" and place a dot between bobs and stuff to reply email

rw
September 22nd, 2003, 06:13 AM
Bob Weinberger wrote:
>
> BTW I leave for Kodiak day after tomorrow for a week of chasing big Cohos.

That is like totally cool, Bob.

Can I come? :-)

JR
September 22nd, 2003, 07:21 AM
Bob Weinberger wrote:
>
> It just so happens that one of our crew had to cancel. If you're really interested, email me ASAP for
> details. We have a house right on the Pasagshak River rented from 9/25 to 10/8. Some of us stay the
> full two weeks, some are just there the first week, and some come for the second week (6-8 people in
> the house at a time). I had planned to stay for the full 2 weeks, but have to leave 10/3 for a
> consulting gig in Western WA.

Have a good time, Bob. Turns out I won't be back in OR until 18 Oct. at
the earliest. You going to be finished consulting by then and ready to
try you-know-where?

JR

JR
September 22nd, 2003, 07:24 AM
Warren wrote:
>
> RW showed up to my house on a Wednesday evening....

Excellent TR and beautiful pix from both you and Willi.

Partly because of the timing of their runs and partly because I can't
get past how plug ugly they are, I've never fished for pinks. What are
they like--the take, the fight? Were you dead-drifting those flies,
swinging them....?

JR

Bob Weinberger
September 22nd, 2003, 08:09 AM
"JR" > wrote in message ...

> Have a good time, Bob. Turns out I won't be back in OR until 18 Oct. at
> the earliest. You going to be finished consulting by then and ready to
> try you-know-where?
>
> JR

The consulting job is only for a week (be done 10/10) but it will put a nice chunk of change in my
pocket. I have to attend a nieces wedding in Tacoma on 10/18, but will be up for you-know-where right
after that. The flows will probably be low, but the temps should be good by then.
The Lower Deschutes has been pretty much blown out by glacial till from the White River for about two
weeks.
The Snake & lower GR are just starting to get really good - 2000+/day over Lower Granite for the
last week and a half..
I hooked 7 nice chromers (landed 5) last Tue. eve. - Wed. Morn at the mouth of the GR. Also was
surprised to catch a Chinook Jack of about 6# on a swung fly on top, in the crease where the GR water
meets the Snake.


--
Bob Weinberger - La Grande, OR

Remove "invalid" and place a dot between bobs and stuff to reply email

Chas Wade
September 22nd, 2003, 08:40 AM
Darin Minor > wrote:

>We could wait 'till '05 when the pinks will be back but coho run every
>year.
>One thing to remember is that salmon don't keep a deffinate schedule,
>they
>could be late or they could be early, so setting a date might be kind
>of
>tough.
>

I am sorry I didn't talk to you directly Darin, but it was a spur of
the moment trip, and I've been a bit confused by this business of
having to catch 50 salmon per day. I'm off again in the morning for
the Skagit or maybe the Stilly. Saturday on the Skagit was great
again, but I'm hoping to find the silvers. Let me know if you're
interested in getting together for some salmon.

Oh, I almost forgot to tell you. I tied some pink variations on your
green foam cutthroat fly, and tried them on the pinks Saturday. I had
a couple follows and one strike where the fish missed (refused?) the
fly. I need to play with this idea some more. It's a great pattern.

Thanks,

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Clark Reid
September 22nd, 2003, 09:06 AM
"Chas Wade" wrote
> Frank,
>
> Thanks for clarifying that, you knew exactly what I meant.

Guess my humor gets lost in translation sometimes, apologies if my remark
was off base.

--
Clark Reid
http://www.dryflynz.com
Umpqua Designer Flytier

Warren
September 22nd, 2003, 12:19 PM
wrote...
>
> "rw" > wrote in message
> m...
>
> > I watched Warren play that fish. It was upstream and Warren wasn't
> > putting undue pressure on it.
> >
> > I can assure you, Bob, that Warren knows how to play a fish, so relax.
> Steve,
> I didn't say he was putting undue pressure on the fish, but the angle he is using in the pictures is
> putting undue pressure on the ROD. Compare the angle he is using in pictures 0016 and 0017 with the
> pictures of you (0030 & 0033) fighting a Humpie. At least as much pressure can be put on the fish
> with the angle you used as with the angle that Warren used. However, the stress on the rod is much
> greater with the acute angle that he used.
>
> Chas,
> While an acute rod angle may be necessary to land a fish by yourself in tight quarters, based on the
> room around you guys as shown in the pictures, there was no need at that location. I can appreciate
> what you say about clouser nicks, having broken two rods as a result of them while fishing for Cohos
> on Kodiak.
>
> BTW I leave for Kodiak day after tomorrow for a week of chasing big Cohos.


Just for a bit of clarification, there were nicks in the rod
that I found after the rod broke from what looked like damage
caused by being nicked by big flies. There were white marks
running horizontal to the break on the low end and also a few
nicks on the tip near where the break was. In all honesty I
feel that the rod broke because it was damaged, not because I
was putting too much pressure on a fish that was running
upstream of me. I was pretty much letting the fish spool line
off so that I could wear it out fighting the current instead
of fighting me. I was in the middle of the river without a
net and was basically trying to tire the fish out enough so
that I could land, unhook and release the fish without having
to horse it in and then handle an unruly fish.

In the pictures you mentioned, if you look closely, you will
see that I am in the process of landing the fish. #16 has me
laying the rod off to the side and towards the camera in an
effort to turn the fish's head out of the current so that the
current works for me instead of against me. #17 shows me
bringing the rod in so that I could grab the leader (12'
leader, 9' rod, you do the math).

Two questions Bob:

1) Why are you checking out my rod? <bseg>
2) Do you think the camera angle has you a bit confused?

If you look closely, you will see that I am angling the rod
out to the side as I land the fish. This can be deceptive
since the rod is coming off to the side and also back at the
camera. Trust me, I know how to land fish and while I
appreciate your input, I think you are waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy off
on this one. I will gladly demonstrate the phenomenon in
person if you put me over some big fish. <g>

Sorry, but a third question:

3) I understand what you are saying about the rod angle and
can "dig" it. You claim to land 20# fish using a 6 wt just as
fast as people using 8 and 9 wt rods. What tricks do you use?
I am sure I will be getting back into that kind of fishing and
any tips would be appreciated. It *is* a totally different
kind of fishing than I am used to and I would appreciate any
tips you can offer. (Joke mode on) The angle of the dangle is
inversely proportional to the heat of the meat. How would you
change my meat? ;-)

All joking aside, I would like to hear what your
recommendations are for landing big fish on a lighter weight
rod are. Chasing those pinks has me wanting something else
and I don't think the fishing around here will suffice. I am
seriously contemplating another trip out to Chas's for some
more fishing. Chas's son Andy gave me an earful that has me
totally wanting to come out again for "the big fish" and I
could use all the advice you can give. You can email me with
your secret patterns if you like, I know I would! <g>
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Warren
September 22nd, 2003, 12:28 PM
wrote...
> Signs are the way to go. I'd be willing to bet that that couple
> didn't have any idea they were doing the fish any harm. I know, but
> can't understand, there are a few people who will do a harmless
> creature damage because they just don't care, but most do it because
> they don't know any better.

That is kind of my philosophy on this as well and why I never
said anything to the guy. I really wanted to but knew that I
wasn't in the right mind to be "non-confrontational" about it
so I just kept quiet. Handling techniques are in the reg
book, on various state web sites and on various other web
sites, but I think signs are the last bastion and are a good
idea. If they fail to read the signs, flame away because
their is no excuse IMO.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Warren
September 22nd, 2003, 12:32 PM
wrote...
> Next time, come over for a weekend and let me know enough in advance so
> that I can make it over there.

Sorry Darin. I basically had less than 12 hours notice for
this trip. It really was a last minute decision to even go.
Steve talked me into it and we were gone the next morning.
Trust me, if I get back over that way, it will be planned. I
definitely wouldn't mind seeing you and Dave S. again. Steve
and I actually talked about that during the drive.

> Nice TR BTW.

Thanks. I'm telling you, that fishing has me looking at other
locations to live even though it would put me farther away
from my daughter.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Tim J.
September 22nd, 2003, 01:08 PM
"Warren" wrote a most excellent TR...

Man, that was fun to read, and to view. Thanks for taking the time to share,
Warren.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Warren
September 22nd, 2003, 01:11 PM
wrote...
> Excellent TR and beautiful pix from both you and Willi.

JR, none of the pics were mine. I lent my camera to a friend
who fried the thing and so Willi, Kevin, RW and Snoop were the
photographers. Hope you enjoyed the humor in the TR though.
<g>

> Partly because of the timing of their runs and partly because I can't
> get past how plug ugly they are, I've never fished for pinks. What are
> they like--the take, the fight? Were you dead-drifting those flies,
> swinging them....?

They ARE ugly! Ugly to the point to where they are beautiful
that is. I really got a kick out of fishing for the pinks
because it was like nothing I have ever experienced before. I
got the impression that they are a "lesser" salmon, but they
suited me just fine. The smoked ones that Chas had at the
"Wade Inn" were terrific and I can't wait to smoke some
myself. I had a couple of steaks tonight on the Q using some
mesquite chips that seemed too harsh for the fish. I am
looking forward to trying it again with some alder or apple.
I still can't believe I actually got to experience the thrill
that these fish provided.

How do you explain pinks? They can slam a fly, pick it up on
a dead drift and just "hold" the fly or can simply be foul
hooked. I hated how often fish were foul hooked and it was
something that disturbed me. Drifting a heavy fly through
shallow water would often snag a male on the hump. I didn't
count these fish in my "personal tally" and did everything I
could to land and release these fish as quickly as possible.
Bitching about there being so many fish that you actually foul
hooked fish is just something that I have never had to deal
with before. The solid takes were *solid* and fun. They
didn't seem to fight as long as the trout I am used to fishing
for, but they fought harder in a shorter period of time unless
they were "fresher" fish. The "fresher" ones seemed to have
more spunk to them and would actually battle much like a big
brown IME. The ones a little later along in the run would
fight for a bit and then come in like an old boot once they
were wore out. ailuweiukawei Sorry....had to swat an
annoying caddis....

I really enjoyed fishing for the pinks and am now hooked.
Sight fishing for them was an ultimate kick for me. In my
very limited experience, it seemed like the fish would
congregate on the slower moving water, especially before a
rapid. They would move into shallow water and if you didn't
spook them, you could totally sight fish to a specific fish if
they were holding. Watching that big mouth open and see the
fly actually entering the mouth before setting the hook was a
blast! More often than not, it was sight fishing in shallow
water to moving fish or sight fishing to a huge "blob" of fish
in a certain area. RW and I sat there and laughed for a long
time on how "obscene" the fishing was.

Another thing I noticed was that the better "keepers" would be
further out from shore. It often was a battle of casting past
the more "wore out" fish without spooking them to get to the
good ones. The "fresher" fish seemed to be just beyond the
easy, visible fish. For me, the funnest part of this whole
trip was basically showing up someplace totally foreign to me,
faced with a totally new type of fishing, given three flies
that would work and being turned loose. I was kind of the
anti-social person in the group and would often just go out on
my own without any specific instructions and kind of play
around until I figured out how to catch the fish on my own.
You could totally see them, but you couldn't always get them
to take a fly. It was easy, but challenging at the same time
if you catch my meaning.

The impression that I was left with was that the pinks are
like a good practice fish for the upcoming and better runs of
fish. *I* enjoyed every minute I was fishing for the pinks
and at times was just worn out from catching so many. They
fought just enough to wear a guy out and were plentiful and
hungry enough at times to be a pain in the ass. I guess the
best way I can put it was that it was like being 4 years old
again, fishing for perch using a cane rod and worms and just
hauling in fish after fish. It was fun as hell but it got
just down-right tiring after a while. Just when you thought
you possibly couldn't take any more, the fish would get hard
to catch and would become challenging again. If you haven't
tried it, you owe it to yourself to try it at least once with
someone like Chas. The whole experience still seems like a
dream to me and is something that I doubt I will forget
anytime soon. It is just hard believe that it actually
happened.
--
Warren (aka Iron Harry Vane arrr!)
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Bruiser
September 22nd, 2003, 03:11 PM
Man, that was a really great trip. Thanks for writing it up and taking all
the great photos! Fishing with Chas is great too. I'll see you up there
one of these years, Chas!

I won't even bother writing up a TR for my birthday fishing in the Wild and
Scenic River section of the Rio Grande for my birthday Saturday, but I'll
hit the high points:

The hike down drops 700' in eight tenths of a mile and I jogged it because
the river below looked so damn good. Heidi dropped me off at the trailhead
at about 10 am and we scheduled a 6:45 pm pickup. At the bottom my legs
were humming as I rigged up. The wading is deadly on the slickest frickin
rocks I've ever encountered (basalt polished smooth). The rocks are also
really big so you're often standing on them and fishing water that's ten
feet below the rock. I took one fall that would have scared even the
esteemed Mr. Reid. I was actually swimming in my vest with my rod.
Thankfully still alive!

I fished hopper/dropper, dry only when the baetis were out, and a two
nymph/bobber rig also. The fishing was great. I caught lots of small,
beautiful browns and a few Rio Grande chubs. While I was fishing just a
small parachute adams (baetis were in the air) I had a HUGE brown turn and
grab it. Alas, I got Buck Fever and immediately left that fly in the
brown's lip with a Bass Bubba hookset. Oh well. That would have been my
fourth "brown of a lifetime" but the first on a dry. Later I hooked (and
landed!) a 30"+ Carp! When I hooked him he took me to the backing, running
*upstream* through some huge rapids and boulders. Amazingly, my 3X (apprx)
Cabela's Tectan held up and I got the fish into some shallow water
eventually. My PT was stuck way back in the roof of his mouth and this fish
scared me. Certainly twice as heavy as anything I'd landed on a five weight
before. As I was struggling to free my hemostats, the hook popped out and
that beautiful fish swam into some deep slow water and sulked. Can't blame
him.

If anyone wants to see this place in the next couple of weeks, I'll meet you
up there. Drop me an email or reply to this thread.

In my opinion, it blows the Box Canyon of the Henry's Fork away - more
variety of fish, more solitude, tougher wading by far, and of course it's in
New Mexico!

bruce h

Oh yeah, my legs are sooooo sore that I can't step off a curb. My "downhill
muscles" were completely unprepared and I'm not sure if they'll ever be the
same.

Tim J.
September 22nd, 2003, 03:41 PM
"rw" wrote...
> Bob Weinberger wrote:
> > "rw" wrote...
> >>Bob Weinberger wrote:
> >>
> >>>BTW I leave for Kodiak day after tomorrow for a week of chasing big Cohos.
> >>
> >>That is like totally cool, Bob.
> >>
> >>Can I come? :-)
> >
> > It just so happens that one of our crew had to cancel. If you're really
interested, email me ASAP for
> > details.
>
> I'd seriously go if I weren't starting to replace the floor in my cabin
> today. That will take all week.

What happened? Is all that money buckling the floor boards again? :)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

rw
September 22nd, 2003, 03:49 PM
Bob Weinberger wrote:
> "rw" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>Bob Weinberger wrote:
>>
>>>BTW I leave for Kodiak day after tomorrow for a week of chasing big Cohos.
>>
>>That is like totally cool, Bob.
>>
>>Can I come? :-)
>>
>
>
> It just so happens that one of our crew had to cancel. If you're really interested, email me ASAP for
> details.

I'd seriously go if I weren't starting to replace the floor in my cabin
today. That will take all week.

Willi
September 22nd, 2003, 07:58 PM
Warren wrote:

The whole experience still seems like a
> dream to me and is something that I doubt I will forget
> anytime soon. It is just hard believe that it actually
> happened.

Looks like those salmon put their hook in you!

Willi

Willi
September 22nd, 2003, 07:58 PM
Warren wrote:


> Chas and RW were into fish shortly
> thereafter. It seems that we had followed the storm out west
> that had plagued us on the Bighorn as it began to rain and
> then would clear a little only to rain a little more.

Very sorry I couldn't go along with you guys.

Willi

Willi
September 22nd, 2003, 07:59 PM
rw wrote:

> Maybe we can arrange a Washington Clave some day? Like maybe next year?
> The pinks won't be running like this year, but I'm sure something else
> will be happening.
>


I'd like to do a Steelhead chase.

Willi

nope
September 22nd, 2003, 08:12 PM
Bruiser wrote:

> I won't even bother writing up a TR for my birthday fishing in the Wild and
> Scenic River section of the Rio Grande for my birthday Saturday, but I'll
> hit the high points:


You are a cruel man, Bruce! You're sure to delay my home repairs with
talk like that.

And you forgot to mention what the weather's been like in New Mexico lately!

My regular two fishing buddies are unavailable, and I've got a 3 day
weekend coming up. Saturday is probably the only day that works for me.
What trailhead did you start at?

- Bryan

Frank Reid
September 22nd, 2003, 09:50 PM
> > Thanks for clarifying that, you knew exactly what I meant.
>
> Guess my humor gets lost in translation sometimes, apologies if my remark
> was off base.

Not off base, right on target. I am jealous of my long-lost adopted, 1/100
brother's life with some of the best fishing to be found seriously south of
the Mason-Dixon line.
--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

Bob Weinberger
September 22nd, 2003, 10:03 PM
"Warren" > wrote in message ...
> wrote...
> >
> > "rw" > wrote in message
> > m...
> >
> Just for a bit of clarification, there were nicks in the rod
> that I found after the rod broke from what looked like damage
> caused by being nicked by big flies. There were white marks
> running horizontal to the break on the low end and also a few
> nicks on the tip near where the break was. In all honesty I
> feel that the rod broke because it was damaged, not because I
> was putting too much pressure on a fish that was running
> upstream of me. I was pretty much letting the fish spool line
> off so that I could wear it out fighting the current instead
> of fighting me. I was in the middle of the river without a
> net and was basically trying to tire the fish out enough so
> that I could land, unhook and release the fish without having
> to horse it in and then handle an unruly fish.
>

Warren,
I have little doubt that you have considerable experience in and knowledge in playing fish, but this
type of fish in heavy current is a whole different dynamic than most trout fishing and something you
admit to having little experience with. While it seems very likely that a nick in the rod contributed
greatly to the break, there is a strong possibility that the rod would not have broken - even with a
nick - if a lower rod angle were utilized. Again, its not about the amount of pressure on the fish,
but about the amount of stress on the rod. Even though you were were letting the fish wear itself out
running upstream against the current ( an excellent tactic on large fish), the angle of the bend in
the rod is most indicative of the amount of stress on the rod. There are some situations where
landing a fish by yourself requires using a very steep angle on the rod (landing fish while in a float
tube is a prime example). However, the situation shown in the pictures does not appear to be one of
them. The pictures show you on a gravel bar that gave you room to keep a low rod angle while leading
the fish into shallow water. If you realse all pressure on the fish as soon as the water is shallow
enough that they need to lay on their side, virtually all salmonids ( even relatively "hot" fish)
cease their struggle long enough for you to unhook them, or, if you wish, kill them.

> In the pictures you mentioned, if you look closely, you will
> see that I am in the process of landing the fish. #16 has me
> laying the rod off to the side and towards the camera in an
> effort to turn the fish's head out of the current so that the
> current works for me instead of against me. #17 shows me
> bringing the rod in so that I could grab the leader (12'
> leader, 9' rod, you do the math).

Maybe it is the camera angle, but in picture #16 it definately appears that the butt of the rod is
tilted forward towards the fish greatly reducing the angle between rod and fish. As for grabbing the
leader, as I point out above, the best technique (when there is room) is to not even attempt that
until to fish is in shallow water on its side with no pressure on the line.

> Two questions Bob:
>
> 1) Why are you checking out my rod? <bseg>

Only your FISHING rod.

> 2) Do you think the camera angle has you a bit confused?

Possibly

>
> If you look closely, you will see that I am angling the rod
> out to the side as I land the fish. This can be deceptive
> since the rod is coming off to the side and also back at the
> camera. Trust me, I know how to land fish and while I
> appreciate your input, I think you are waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy off
> on this one. I will gladly demonstrate the phenomenon in
> person if you put me over some big fish. <g>

You have an open invitation to come over and receive personal tutoring with big hot steelhead (not the
worn out old boots that Steve targets ;>) ) anytime that I am available (which is most of the time)
between July and late Nov. - mid Oct is the best.

>
> Sorry, but a third question:
>
> 3) I understand what you are saying about the rod angle and
> can "dig" it. You claim to land 20# fish using a 6 wt just as
> fast as people using 8 and 9 wt rods. What tricks do you use?
> I am sure I will be getting back into that kind of fishing and
> any tips would be appreciated. It *is* a totally different
> kind of fishing than I am used to and I would appreciate any
> tips you can offer. (Joke mode on) The angle of the dangle is
> inversely proportional to the heat of the meat. How would you
> change my meat? ;-)
>
> All joking aside, I would like to hear what your
> recommendations are for landing big fish on a lighter weight
> rod are. Chasing those pinks has me wanting something else
> and I don't think the fishing around here will suffice. I am
> seriously contemplating another trip out to Chas's for some
> more fishing. Chas's son Andy gave me an earful that has me
> totally wanting to come out again for "the big fish" and I
> could use all the advice you can give. You can email me with
> your secret patterns if you like, I know I would! <g>
> --
> Warren
> (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

With the exception of keeping a moderately low rod angle and taking ALL pressure off the fish as soon
as you have it in shallow enough water, you are probably already using most of the tricks. You
already mentioned making the fish fight the current as well as you, but an even more effective
technique, if the fish is not directly upstream (or at all downstream), is keep a relatively low rod
angle and point your rod somewhat across the current rather than directly at the fish, so that the
current puts a downstream bend in your line between you and the fish. This not only causes the fish
to fight both the current and the pull of the current against your line, but acts as an excellent
shock absorber when the fish makes sudden lunges or jumps. Another "trick" is to change the direction
of pull against the fish as often as possible so that it is constantly having to adjust its position
relative to the current. This seems to considerably reduce the time needed to wear them down enough
to land.

I wasn't trying to pick on you specifically, but like most trout fishermen, even quite experienced
fishermen like yourself, you (at least as I percieved from the pictures) seemed to be unaware of some
factors that are almost never an issue in normal trout fishing, but can become critical when handling
large strong fish in strong currents. I hope you took my comments as intended - suggestions to help
you better deal with this type of fishing rather than as attacks on your abilities.

Although I have some patterns that I prefer over others for varying conditions, I have no secret
patterns, and am convinced that MOST OF THE TIME pattern doesn't matter all that much for most
anadromous fish. Well I better end this overly long post and get busy finishing packing for Kodiak.
I'll be away from any computer between tomorrow AM and the evening of 10/3.

--
Bob Weinberger - La Grande, OR

Remove "invalid" and place a dot between bobs and stuff to reply email

Warren
September 22nd, 2003, 11:10 PM
wrote...
<snipped>

> Maybe it is the camera angle, but in picture #16 it definately appears that the butt of the rod is
> tilted forward towards the fish greatly reducing the angle between rod and fish. As for grabbing the
> leader, as I point out above, the best technique (when there is room) is to not even attempt that
> until to fish is in shallow water on its side with no pressure on the line.

The butt of the rod is tilted towards the fish in pic 16 and I
am understanding what you are saying. The method you describe
is the way I normally fight fish unless I am trying to turn
their head out of the current. Definitely something I will
take note of next time I get to tangle with those beasts.

> > 1) Why are you checking out my rod? <bseg>
>
> Only your FISHING rod.

That's what they *all* say. . . . <g>

> You have an open invitation to come over and receive personal tutoring with big hot steelhead (not the
> worn out old boots that Steve targets ;>) ) anytime that I am available (which is most of the time)
> between July and late Nov. - mid Oct is the best.

I'd seriously like to take you up on that sometime. Only
fishing for trout has taken some of the zest out of fishing
and this new experience was exactly what the doctor ordered to
put that fire back in my eye.

> With the exception of keeping a moderately low rod angle and taking ALL pressure off the fish as soon
> as you have it in shallow enough water, you are probably already using most of the tricks. You
> already mentioned making the fish fight the current as well as you, but an even more effective
> technique, if the fish is not directly upstream (or at all downstream), is keep a relatively low rod
> angle and point your rod somewhat across the current rather than directly at the fish, so that the
> current puts a downstream bend in your line between you and the fish. This not only causes the fish
> to fight both the current and the pull of the current against your line, but acts as an excellent
> shock absorber when the fish makes sudden lunges or jumps. Another "trick" is to change the direction
> of pull against the fish as often as possible so that it is constantly having to adjust its position
> relative to the current. This seems to considerably reduce the time needed to wear them down enough
> to land.

I'll have to try that downstream line trick sometime. It
makes a lot of sense.

> I wasn't trying to pick on you specifically, but like most trout fishermen, even quite experienced
> fishermen like yourself, you (at least as I percieved from the pictures) seemed to be unaware of some
> factors that are almost never an issue in normal trout fishing, but can become critical when handling
> large strong fish in strong currents. I hope you took my comments as intended - suggestions to help
> you better deal with this type of fishing rather than as attacks on your abilities.

No, I totally took it as a constructive thing instead of as an
attack and I appreciate it. Something I will definitely start
watching out for in the future so that I can break what could
be a terrible habit should I ever do more of that type of
fishing.

> Although I have some patterns that I prefer over others for varying conditions, I have no secret
> patterns, and am convinced that MOST OF THE TIME pattern doesn't matter all that much for most
> anadromous fish. Well I better end this overly long post and get busy finishing packing for Kodiak.
> I'll be away from any computer between tomorrow AM and the evening of 10/3.

Good luck on the trip! I look forward to reading the TR.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Clark Reid
September 23rd, 2003, 01:43 AM
"Frank Reid" < wrote > Not off base, right on target. I am jealous of my
long-lost adopted, 1/100
> brother's life with some of the best fishing to be found seriously south
of
> the Mason-Dixon line.


The things I enjoy most are my running my dogs after roosters (Pheasants)
and showing people how to fish our waters... It's school holidays here at
the moment and have my kids staying... They are helping me get my dogs
ready for a field trial this coming weekend and later in the week I am
taking them out to try and get them their first trout. I don't get to see
them often so it's a bit of buzz.

The best thing about the fishing, hunting and things i have in my life is
not enjoying them for themselves but sharing them. I guess that probably
sounds trite, but it's exactly how I feel.

That and the fact that the only thing more southern than me is penguins :)
(He says typing this wearing a "Billy Bob's" hat!)
--
Clark Reid
http://www.dryflynz.com
Umpqua Designer Flytier

Darin Minor
September 23rd, 2003, 04:07 AM
Warren wrote:

> Sorry Darin. I basically had less than 12 hours notice for
> this trip. It really was a last minute decision to even go.
> Steve talked me into it and we were gone the next morning.
> Trust me, if I get back over that way, it will be planned. I
> definitely wouldn't mind seeing you and Dave S. again. Steve
> and I actually talked about that during the drive.

I wasn't giving you any **** for not letting me know this time, I read that
it was spur of the moment.

> Thanks. I'm telling you, that fishing has me looking at other
> locations to live even though it would put me farther away
> from my daughter.

You're only about 12 hours away here where I'm at, couple a hours closer on
Chas' side of the pond. There are guys that head to Montana just for the 2
day weekend from here. I know it's not an ideal situation for you but if the
thoughts are running through your head it's something to consider. The last
thing I'm trying to do is to talk you into moving over here and away from the
love of your life (your daughter, not fishing).

>
> --
> Warren
> (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Darin Minor
September 23rd, 2003, 04:12 AM
Chas Wade wrote:

> I am sorry I didn't talk to you directly Darin, but it was a spur of
> the moment trip, and I've been a bit confused by this business of
> having to catch 50 salmon per day. I'm off again in the morning for
> the Skagit or maybe the Stilly. Saturday on the Skagit was great
> again, but I'm hoping to find the silvers. Let me know if you're
> interested in getting together for some salmon.

No problem Chas, as I couldn't make it during the week anyways. I'd love to
get together for some salmon but I *have* to work as much overtime as I can
handle.

>
>
> Oh, I almost forgot to tell you. I tied some pink variations on your
> green foam cutthroat fly, and tried them on the pinks Saturday. I had
> a couple follows and one strike where the fish missed (refused?) the
> fly. I need to play with this idea some more. It's a great pattern.

That is a sal****er pattern but if you're able to get it to work let me
know. It's cool that you at least got a couple of follows with it.

Darin

Darin Minor
September 23rd, 2003, 04:14 AM
Chas Wade wrote:

> I'm off again in the morning for the Skagit or maybe the Stilly.

I forgot to add that I just read that the Stilly was chocolate milk
yesterday. At least it's on your way to the Skagit.

Darin

Bruiser
September 23rd, 2003, 04:42 AM
"nope" > wrote in message

> What trailhead did you start at?
>

Big Arsenic. I know you've fished this area a bunch and now know why you
like it so much. Can't go this weekend but maybe soon thereafter. Let us
know how you do if you make it. And don't forget the SJ, Dec 6-9.

bruce h

nope
September 23rd, 2003, 05:12 AM
Bruiser wrote:


> Big Arsenic. I know you've fished this area a bunch and now know why you
> like it so much. Can't go this weekend but maybe soon thereafter. Let us
> know how you do if you make it. And don't forget the SJ, Dec 6-9.

It's so beautiful down there - I go as much for the hike and the scenery
as I do for the fishing. When you hit it "hot" the fishing is pretty
unbelievable.

This was your first trip into the Wild Rivers area? Watch out for the
poison ivy both along the Rio and on the Red.

re: the Juan ... I'll be returning from two weeks in Costa Rica the
Wednesday before the Juan. I should be able to make it for a couple of
days. Hopefully I'll have some pictures of Central American fish.
Anyone have any hints on fishing in Costa Rica? Guide recommendations?
I'll start a thread with a proper subject in a couple of days.

- Bryan

JR
September 23rd, 2003, 07:47 AM
Warren wrote:
>
> .... I lent my camera to a friend
> who fried the thing and so Willi, Kevin, RW and Snoop were the
> photographers. Hope you enjoyed the humor in the TR though.

There was humor? ;)

> How do you explain pinks? They can slam a fly, pick it up on
> a dead drift and just "hold" the fly or can simply be foul
> hooked. I hated how often fish were foul hooked and it was
> something that disturbed me.....
> <excellent descriptions snipped>

The range of types of takes and types of fight, depending on the
freshness of the fish, sounds a bit like steelhead, though I think when
you first tie into a really hot steelhead fresh from the sea, the kind
that takes a hundred yards of backing before it even registers you've
hooked something.... well, then you'd get the PNW bug big time.... the
Anadromous Strain <g>...

Thanks again for the cool TR. Hope you get back to WA or OR for some
more sea run fishing.

JR

Mu Young Lee
September 23rd, 2003, 09:02 AM
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Warren wrote:

> We fished in this area until dark and then headed back
> to the Wade Inn completely worn out from what RW and I decided
> was fof (freakin' obscene fishing). RW and I were completely
> in awe of this type of fishing and I think we are now hooked,
> at least I am.

Pinks are plenty of fun. Often aggressive and abundant in my brief
encounters with them.

> elitist, snob fly fishermen, RW and I decided to keep about 30
> lbs of salmon since they were going to die after spawning
> anyway.

Speaking of those salmon living in lakes... one big difference I noticed
between Great Lakes salmon and *real* west coast salmon is that the inland
variety tended to color up much more rapidly than the sea-run fish. Pink
salmon - even from the Pacific ocean - however seem to lose their
*freshness* much (I'm talking very much) sooner than the other species
once they hit the rivers. I don;t know if you'll be keeping too many more
of those fish after you've tasted the first few. There's always the
smoker.

Very informative trip report BTW. Made the Bighorn seem very attractive.
Yet another river to put on the must see list, I guess.

Mu

Mu Young Lee
September 23rd, 2003, 09:28 AM
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Warren wrote:

> best way I can put it was that it was like being 4 years old
> again, fishing for perch using a cane rod and worms and just
> hauling in fish after fish.

That's a very apt description.

> It was fun as hell but it got
> just down-right tiring after a while. Just when you thought
> you possibly couldn't take any more, the fish would get hard
> to catch and would become challenging again.

Picking off the ones at the edges of the pods can be a challenge in any
case.

Mu

Chas Wade
September 23rd, 2003, 09:45 AM
"Clark Reid" > wrote:
>
>"Chas Wade" wrote
>> Frank,
>>
>> Thanks for clarifying that, you knew exactly what I meant.
>
>Guess my humor gets lost in translation sometimes, apologies if my
>remark
>was off base.

No worries mate. The humor wasn't lost to begin with. This was
clearly all in good fun.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Chas Wade
September 23rd, 2003, 09:56 AM
Darin Minor > wrote:
>
>No problem Chas, as I couldn't make it during the week anyways. I'd
>love to
>get together for some salmon but I *have* to work as much overtime as
>I can
>handle.
>
Sorry to repeat myself, but work _is_ overrated.
>>
>>
>> Oh, I almost forgot to tell you. I tied some pink variations on your
>> green foam cutthroat fly, and tried them on the pinks Saturday. I
>>had
>> a couple follows and one strike where the fish missed (refused?) the
>> fly. I need to play with this idea some more. It's a great pattern.
>
>That is a sal****er pattern but if you're able to get it to work let me
>know. It's cool that you at least got a couple of follows with it.
>
I tried it again today on the Skagit, another couple followers, but no
strikes. When I get over some silvers I'll try it again.

Thanks

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Chas Wade
September 23rd, 2003, 09:57 AM
Darin Minor > wrote:
>Chas Wade wrote:
>
>> I'm off again in the morning for the Skagit or maybe the Stilly.
>
>I forgot to add that I just read that the Stilly was chocolate milk
>yesterday. At least it's on your way to the Skagit.
>
It was better, but still not fishable, maybe Tuesday.


Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Chas Wade
September 23rd, 2003, 10:03 AM
Willi > wrote:
>
>
>rw wrote:
>
>> Maybe we can arrange a Washington Clave some day? Like maybe next
>>year?
>> The pinks won't be running like this year, but I'm sure something
>>else
>> will be happening.
>>
>
>
>I'd like to do a Steelhead chase.
>

I'm learning more about steelhead, chase is a good word. If you can
get to Asotin in SE Washington to fish the Snake or the Grande Ronde,
there will be fish to work on for the next couple months. I have Sept
30 through Oct 5 or so available. I caught one there last year, and I
believe I could catch more now.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Chas Wade
September 23rd, 2003, 10:18 AM
JR > wrote:
>The range of types of takes and types of fight, depending on the
>freshness of the fish, sounds a bit like steelhead, though I think when
>you first tie into a really hot steelhead fresh from the sea, the kind
>that takes a hundred yards of backing before it even registers you've
>hooked something.... well, then you'd get the PNW bug big time.... the
>Anadromous Strain <g>...

You're right on the money here JR. The pinks aren't the fighters a
steelhead can be. About 1 in 40 will take you into the backing, but
part of that is the size of the fish, and part of it is their
freshness. Steelhead can be fresh a thousand miles and a month or two
from the salt, Pinks are rarely fresh for more than a couple weeks.

Maybe I'm fond of ugly fish? Pike and pinks are great, but what about
chums. Now that's an ugly fish with an attitude. On a good day you
have to quit after 2 or 3 hours because your hands and arms are too
tired.

I tested positive for the Anadromous Strain.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Chas Wade
September 23rd, 2003, 10:24 AM
"Bruiser" > wrote:
>Man, that was a really great trip. Thanks for writing it up and
>taking all
>the great photos! Fishing with Chas is great too. I'll see you up
>there
>one of these years, Chas!
You're welcome any time.

>
>I won't even bother writing up a TR for my birthday fishing in the
>Wild and
>Scenic River section of the Rio Grande for my birthday Saturday, but
>I'll
>hit the high points:
Despite the modest claims, that was a trip report, and a fine one at
that!

.... snip ...
>
>Oh yeah, my legs are sooooo sore that I can't step off a curb. My
>"downhill
>muscles" were completely unprepared and I'm not sure if they'll ever
>be the
>same.

After I did that once, I had what I called thigh splints. Try walking
backwards up the stairs, it works.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Chas Wade
September 23rd, 2003, 10:26 AM
Willi > wrote:
>
>
>Warren wrote:
>
>
>> Chas and RW were into fish shortly
>> thereafter. It seems that we had followed the storm out west
>> that had plagued us on the Bighorn as it began to rain and
>> then would clear a little only to rain a little more.
>
>Very sorry I couldn't go along with you guys.

We are too Willi, the chums are due in a month. You could come for
them.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

JR
September 23rd, 2003, 01:05 PM
Chas Wade wrote:
>
> You're right on the money here JR. The pinks aren't the fighters a
> steelhead can be. About 1 in 40 will take you into the backing, ...

1 in 40? Where have you been fishing? It's a rare summer fish on the
Deschutes that won't take you into the backing. I admit fish in some
other OR rivers are less train-like, but 1 in 40?

JR

JR
September 23rd, 2003, 01:59 PM
JR wrote:
>
> Chas Wade wrote:
> >
> > You're right on the money here JR. The pinks aren't the fighters a
> > steelhead can be. About 1 in 40 will take you into the backing, ...
>
> 1 in 40? Where have you been fishing? It's a rare summer fish on the
> Deschutes that won't take you into the backing. I admit fish in some
> other OR rivers are less train-like, but 1 in 40?

Chas, ignore the above. The thought managed just now to find its way
into what I optimistically call my brain that you were talking about the
pinks, and not the steelhead.

JR
-shaking his own steel head

Kevin Vang
September 23rd, 2003, 03:24 PM
Warren wrote:
>
> How do you explain pinks? They can slam a fly, pick it up on
> a dead drift and just "hold" the fly or can simply be foul
> hooked. I hated how often fish were foul hooked and it was
> something that disturbed me. Drifting a heavy fly through
> shallow water would often snag a male on the hump.


Do you suppose it would help to tie on a mono weedguard
like on bass and pike flies? It might cut down on fair hookups
too, but it doesn't sound like that would be too much of a
problem.

Kevin,
green with envy

rw
September 23rd, 2003, 04:52 PM
Warren wrote:

> I hated how often fish were foul hooked and it was
> something that disturbed me. Drifting a heavy fly through
> shallow water would often snag a male on the hump.

Now I know how you hooked those few dark pinks on Sunday -- the ones
that weren't taking. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Chas Wade
September 23rd, 2003, 06:11 PM
JR > wrote:
>JR wrote:
>Chas, ignore the above. The thought managed just now to find its way
>into what I optimistically call my brain that you were talking about
>the
>pinks, and not the steelhead.
>
>JR
>-shaking his own steel head

My guess is that you're a programmer. Being one, I can sympathize with
folks who manage to see another meaning in what was written.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Chas Wade
September 23rd, 2003, 06:16 PM
Kevin Vang > wrote:
>Do you suppose it would help to tie on a mono weedguard
>like on bass and pike flies? It might cut down on fair hookups
>too, but it doesn't sound like that would be too much of a
>problem.
>
>Kevin,
>green with envy

An interesting idea Kevin. I haven't had much luck with those weed
guards in weeds, and I have had trouble with them getting mangled by
the pike after a fish or two. We were landing 20 or more fish without
retying the fly, and I doubt the weedguard would help past the first
couple fish. I also should add that we weren't snagging many fish. You
can get the drift working for you and the fly will pass through a
school of 100 fish with one following it out of the pod to strike it in
the open. It's a real kick to watch.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Larry L
September 24th, 2003, 12:01 AM
"Warren" > wrote

>>>>>>>>>> I also noticed something that I haven't seen
before happen. It seemed like in certain areas flocks of
fishermen would congregate on a nice run and fan out for some
combat fishing. The water would be totally open upstream and
downstream for as far as you could see, but people would still
group together like that. We would just keep on going and find
a nice place to ourselves. I still don't understand why that
was happening since there are fish all over the river.
>>>>>>>>>>>>

Not that it matters, but I've noticed this for years, and it IS getting more
and more obvious in fly fishing. I have some theories <G>

Preface:
I am a loner, and have backpacked, hunted and fished alone for all my life,
starting well before I was old enough to drive myself to the Sierra to hike
alone for a week. I'm not a hermit, and I don't "avoid" others, nor do I
dislike being around them, but I don't seek them out, either. I've been
aware of being "different" in this respect since my teen years and before
.... that is probably why I've thought about the "whys" of why people "gang
fish" or "gang hunt" and the very, very obvious trend the last 15 years
towards "foursomes" in fly fishing

Briefly, the theories

(1) Many people, naturally, have a deep "fear" ( can't think of a better
word ) of being alone. In past cultures, time alone was far more common
and more people became comfortable with that aloneness. But this is far
more pronounced in our modern age where many people have had the damn TV or
a radio or a frickin cell phone on nearly every waking moment that they have
not had other humans in sight. ( why do they "need" the cell phone or
walkie talkie?.. often it ain't information sharing, it's to avoid being
alone ) I think our "technoculture" is increasing the level of "aloneness
fear" in many people by very simply never allowing them to practice
aloneness.

(3) More, percentage wise, people are being raised in crowded conditions,
with little or any time really alone. Yesterday I watched the 10 year old
neighbor kid BB gun hunting the counside around here and thought about how
few youngsters today EVER get that far from a crowd and he was only about
1/2 mile from home, but alone

(3) A LOT of people getting into fly fishing the last decade or so have no,
zero, other real outdoors experience, none. From many, mowing the lawn is
a wilderness experience, and big cities are not too crowded.

If you or I head into the backcountry ... alone .... then step off the trail
with the intention of going miles cross country, alone, we will experience,
if only briefly, the emotional attachment the human being has for the
security of other humans and the "man made" ....regardless of our outdoors
experience level. For all of us, to some degree, manmade = secure, Nature =
scary

I KNOW it "sounds stupid" to anyone with real outdoors experience, but I see
people on the stream that seem so uncomfortable outdoors that I bet they are
afraid to enter the "wilderness" between "gang fishers," alone. Heah, think
of the guys that think they need a damn gun to leave the paved road, before
you poo poo the idea <G>

(4) common ones that have affected all fishermen and hunters at one time
"he's catching let's move over there"
"I don't know the area but everyone seems to be over there, that must be
good"
and the very human
"monkey see, monkey do"

Larry L
September 24th, 2003, 12:09 AM
Oh and one more thing<G>
If, after you "just continued and found a nice place to yourselves" I had
come along, alone, I'd have wondered why you were all in the same damn area
<G>

Everything depends on perspective.

The picture of everyone in the boat looks pretty claustrophobic to me :-)

Bruiser
September 24th, 2003, 12:41 AM
"nope" > wrote in message
>
> This was your first trip into the Wild Rivers area?

Not my first trip, but it was my first on that trail and my first into the
canyon in several years.

> Watch out for the
> poison ivy both along the Rio and on the Red.

Thanks! It's a good thing I had long pants on.

We are looking forward to the Juan and seeing your pictures.

bruce h

Larry L
September 24th, 2003, 01:11 AM
"rw" > wrote

> I fish alone at least 90% of the time, very often in wilderness. One of
> the things I really like about the claves is the chance to fish with
> other people for a change.

Yes, I know ... recently you posted a TR about a place that required a
decent walk and commented that you never see others there.

I think many people avoid these places, NOT because of the work, but rather
because of fear ... subtle fear, but fear, nonetheless.

I spent a lot of "people watching" time in Jellystone this summer and it was
very obvious that the vast majority of people started to feel uncomfortable
the first step off pavement, and very uncomfortable where the "human track"
ended, even if it was in sight of the car.

One weird thing I noticed was several times as many early morning joggers
running the roads near Madison Junction camp, as running the trail along the
Madison ... there has to be a reason ... these joggers aren't afraid of
exercise, why the road?

And, I've read and envy your posts about cross country sking alone, too.

One of my legs points nearly 90 degrees from the other and I can't track in
skis ... simply can't ... can't walk in snoeshoes without getting tangled
either :-((

I tried getting bindings specially fitted but never succeeded .... At this
point, I'm WAY too obese and old, anyway, but never getting to really "do"
winter mountaineering is one of my regrets. I envy you your location and
health.

I may try a "clave" someday, but, maybe not <G>

rw
September 24th, 2003, 01:46 AM
Larry L wrote:
> Oh and one more thing<G>
> If, after you "just continued and found a nice place to yourselves" I had
> come along, alone, I'd have wondered why you were all in the same damn area
> <G>
>
> Everything depends on perspective.
>
> The picture of everyone in the boat looks pretty claustrophobic to me :-)

I fish alone at least 90% of the time, very often in wilderness. One of
the things I really like about the claves is the chance to fish with
other people for a change.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Larry L
September 24th, 2003, 02:37 AM
"rw" > wrote

Arlo, who normally hates to be left alone, watches us
> leave the cabin with clear gratitude.
>

I had a friend that lived in Colorado Springs and on a visit with him we
decided to walk up Pikes Peak

Got a topo, found a "route," and took my Golden

Long story short ... we eventually ran into a high chain link fence and some
Army " keep out we kill people like you" signs and never made the top. It
was a long tiring hike to nowhere.

But, of course the Golden ( Jenny) covered several times the distance we
did, hunting the entire way for whatever Goldens think live on Pike's Peak.
For the next several days she was so sore that she never moved, not a foot,
ever. I'd pick her up a few times a day and carry her down the street to
the vacant lot. She'd "do her business" exactly where I put her down, not a
preliminary sniff anywhere else, and I'd pick her up and carry her home and
she'd stay exactly where I put her down till the next time. <G>

I dearly loved that dog ... probably the last of the many dozens I've owned
that I can say that about ... the pro thing changes your perspective.

I had this story on a now defunct retriever specialty web site I mantained
for a few years .... I just uploaded it to my current personal site ...
maybe you will understand it

http://www.kimshew.com/kennels/jenny.htm

rw
September 24th, 2003, 02:56 AM
Larry L wrote:
>
> And, I've read and envy your posts about cross country sking alone, too.

I never XC ski alone. At least one of my dogs is always with me. :-) I
typically take them both in the morning, and then leave my rather
elderly Golden, Arlo, at home in the afternoon, and take my Border
Collie, who has boundless energy and wicked speed, for a hard, fast ski
in the afternoon. Arlo, who normally hates to be left alone, watches us
leave the cabin with clear gratitude.

XC skiing has something of the same appeal for me as fishing. It's an
exercise that makes getting out something more than just a walk in the
woods. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

BTW, you might try skate skiing. Instead of tracking in a straight line
you angle the skis, kind of like ice skates. And you can go fast! The
only problem is that you need a well groomed trail or hard crust.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Darin Minor
September 24th, 2003, 03:52 AM
Mu Young Lee wrote:

> Speaking of those salmon living in lakes... one big difference I noticed
> between Great Lakes salmon and *real* west coast salmon is that the inland
> variety tended to color up much more rapidly than the sea-run fish. Pink
> salmon - even from the Pacific ocean - however seem to lose their
> *freshness* much (I'm talking very much) sooner than the other species
> once they hit the rivers. I don;t know if you'll be keeping too many more
> of those fish after you've tasted the first few. There's always the
> smoker.

Chums will actually start to darken up faster than pinks, they'll start in the
salt water. As far as I'm concerned, the smoker isn't even good enough for
chums. There is a reason they call 'em dog salmon.

Darin

Willi
September 24th, 2003, 04:32 AM
rw wrote:
> Larry L wrote:
>
>> Oh and one more thing<G>
>> If, after you "just continued and found a nice place to yourselves" I had
>> come along, alone, I'd have wondered why you were all in the same damn
>> area
>> <G>
>>
>> Everything depends on perspective.
>>
>> The picture of everyone in the boat looks pretty claustrophobic to me :-)
>
>
> I fish alone at least 90% of the time, very often in wilderness. One of
> the things I really like about the claves is the chance to fish with
> other people for a change.
>

I echo the sentiment. Fishing with different people is also a good way
to learn new things. In addition to personal differences, I like there
are some regional differences.

Willi

Willi
September 24th, 2003, 04:32 AM
Larry L wrote:

>
> Not that it matters, but I've noticed this for years, and it IS getting more
> and more obvious in fly fishing. I have some theories <G>


I think that part of it has to do with new fly fishermen learning how to
fly fish on famous, very heavily fished waters where the fishing is a
"social event."

Willi

JR
September 24th, 2003, 07:28 AM
Chas Wade wrote:
>
> My guess is that you're a programmer. Being one, I can sympathize with
> folks who manage to see another meaning in what was written.

No, I managed to cultivate this disability without any special training
whatsoever. ;)

JR

Clark Reid
September 24th, 2003, 12:13 PM
"Larry L" <wrote > >
> I had a friend that lived in Colorado Springs and on a visit with him we
> decided to walk up Pikes Peak

Don't know about the fihsing, but I watch the rodeo from there on ESPN
whenever it's on....
--
Clark Reid
http://www.dryflynz.com
Umpqua Designer Flytier

slenon
September 24th, 2003, 04:13 PM
RW:
>XC skiing has something of the same appeal for me >as fishing.

I miss being able to XC. It was always a great way to fill a day. And
soaking in the Hot Springs Pool afterward was a real treat.

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar
Save a cow, eat a PETA

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

Wolfgang
September 24th, 2003, 04:27 PM
"Larry L" > wrote in message
...

> I am a loner, and [have a great opinion of myself.....especially
compared to all the pants wetting effete latter day pantywaists I
somehow unaccountably run into in every lonely place I go to].

Well, "Everything depends on perspective", as a wise man once said.

I am not a loner.....except occasionally by happenstance. But in the
past thirty years I've gone on more solo backpacking, hitchhiking,
bicycle touring, day tripping, bird watching, hunting, and fishing
trips than I can count. Spent as much as three weeks out on
backpacking trips, and six or more bike touring or hitchhiking. A lot
of these outings were solo as much because none of my friends were
interested in participating in a particular trip as for any other
reason. It has always been tempting to think of myself as some sort
of hardy outdoor individualists or some such ****, but it's very hard
to carry it off. For you see, like Colin Fletcher (though he said it
better), every time I've found myself at the end of the road or trail,
up against the wall, the last impenetrable thicket beyond which no man
can possibly go, somebody has stepped out from the other side, calmly
dusted him or herself off, nodded a "howdee do", and continued on over
the horizon.

While it is certainly true that there are a lot of people who never
get TO, let alone off, the beaten path, there are millions of others
who routinely do **** that makes my hair stand on end. Your
observations on the multitudes of the fearful and inept you encounter
frequently enough to codify their behavior says at least as much about
your habits as theirs.

Wolfgang

Larry L
September 24th, 2003, 05:03 PM
"Wolfgang" > wrote
>
> While it is certainly true that there are a lot of people who never
> get TO, let alone off, the beaten path, there are millions of others
> who routinely do **** that makes my hair stand on end. Your
> observations on the multitudes of the fearful and inept you encounter
> frequently enough to codify their behavior says at least as much about
> your habits as theirs.
>

Most certainly true .... and I "think" I recognize the anxiety in others
because I so often experience it in myself.

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying, but, for the record, I am FAR from
a "tough guy, macho dude." Especially the last few years, as my body fails
me, I find fear to be a constant obstacle to be overcome. I often fail to
fish a stretch, for instance, because I'm aware of my weak wading and weaker
knees and simply am scared. Or, I quit climbing, years ago, for the simple
reason I was too damn scared to do it anymore after a bad fall. Or, I don't
drive down the really muddy, nearly flooded out, canal levies on duck clubs
like I used to. The fear of drowning or even simply having a long, hard
walk back to help stops me. I'm a whush, always have been, don't mean to
seem to imply otherwise.

I do believe a whush is in a good position to understand "whushiness,"
however.

I may be wrong, but I think I'm as entitled to my opinions, developed from
my observations, about ( your words not mine ) "the fearful and inept"
...... as you are to your opinions about me, based, I think it fair to say,
on less actual observation. Neither of us really harms anyone with our
ramblings, so why not ramble?

I think there is a good chance we are both more wrong than we wish to think,
and right more than the other wants to admit.

Larry L
September 24th, 2003, 05:37 PM
Oh, and Colin Fletcher who, I believe, was the first person to publish a
description of the details of taking a **** in the backcountry. That
undoubtedly led to better overall backcountry sanitation and, thus, far,
far, outstrips the consequence of any of my personal outdoor activities.

Beat out by a good crap, most of us ain't nearly as important as we'd like
to think <G>

Snoop
September 24th, 2003, 06:53 PM
Bruiser wrote:

> Oh yeah, my legs are sooooo sore that I can't step off a curb. My "downhill
> muscles" were completely unprepared and I'm not sure if they'll ever be the
> same.

Great trip report, Bruce.
I feel for ya concerning the legs. A couple of years ago, I hiked (slid) to
the bottom of the middle fork of the Powder river south of Buffalo (hole-in-the
wall country). My fishing buddy had found a "new" way to the bottom. Yeah,
right. There was no trail. We ended up surfing sliding shale most of the way
down. If you fell, you would have rolled all the way to the bottom. The middle
fork is a mini Grand Canyon. When I got to the bottom, my legs didn't work.
They didn't hurt, they just felt like rubber. The first thing we did was cross
the runoff stage creek. We caught some nice fish on stone fly nymphs. The hike
back up was on a trail and, after 5 or 6 stops for a breather, we made it to the
top. No problem, no pain. The next day, I couldn't walk. A few days later, we
headed to Nebraska to the ranch for branding. I helped my brother-in-law move
about 40 cattle panels. As long as I walked on level ground or uphill, I was
fine. Walking down hill (like down into a road ditch on the way to pick up
panels) was terribly painful. It took me over two weeks to heal up. I need to
come up with some kind of exercise to build up those particular muscles.

Snoop






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slenon
September 24th, 2003, 09:55 PM
Larry L:
>I often fail to fish a stretch, for instance, because I'm aware of my weak
wading and weaker
>knees and simply am scared. Or, I quit climbing, years ago, for the
simple
>reason I was too damn scared to do it anymore after a bad fall.

These are common factors that I guess go along with aging and the
recognition that durability is almost as much a myth as invincibility.

I've spent lots of time hiking, camping, climging, skiing,fishing, and
hunting alone. Much of it, I admit, kept me out of the house during a bad
first marriage. But the fear of injury when alone was always there. And in
those days, I would rather have died outdoors doing some higher risk
activity than in the house. The contest was never with companions or others
who had been there before me. It was always with myself, pushing to make
one more goal or one

Fear of injury is always present in humans with normal make up. In combat,
I was far less afraid of death than of injury. I've known quite a few
bona-fide combat heroes who have told me that they felt the same way. The
guys who claimed to have not experienced fear were either mentally ill or
never there to begin with.

Here, wading the flats, it has become much easier to limit the depth to
which I wade. I'd rather not be a statistic and I'd be very embarrased to
admit to dropping and reel to recover from stupidly stepping into a rip or
race.

So if the canyon walls are too sheer and the rock too brittle, the water too
deep and/or fast, I take some comfort in the fact that when younger I dared
such things, but even more in the fact that today I no longer feel the need
to push myself to dare them and still enjoy the trip out.


----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar
Save a cow, eat a PETA

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

Larry L
September 24th, 2003, 10:42 PM
"slenon" > wrote

>>> The contest was never with companions or others
> who had been there before me. It was always with myself,


That's exactly how I felt about climbing.

I've been very happy with myself when I backed off a move that logic told me
was too physically risky, even though I was afraid of seeming the coward to
"friends". And, I've been very proud of myself for quieting the physical
fear, forcing the trembling to stop, and making a sanely protected but very
difficult and scary
move.

I've been very displeased with Larry when he came down off a climb that was
reasonably safe and within his ability because he gave into physical fear.
And, I've been ****ed at myself for making a stupidly risky move because I
gave into the fear of peer pressure more than logic. I've never felt good
around mirrors after giving into fear, regardless of what type fear.

I never came even close to "bleeding edge" rock climbing, but I did push my
own limits very hard, and I feel good about having that in my past.

But, as I age, and give into fears that I would never have had when younger,
I am finding it somewhat emotionally difficult to deal with .... but it's
what I now am, ..... I can't pretend to be
otherwise.

slenon
September 24th, 2003, 11:23 PM
Larry:
> I've been very displeased with Larry when he came down off a climb that
was
>reasonably safe and within his ability because he gave into physical fear.
>And, I've been ****ed at myself for making a stupidly risky move because I
>gave into the fear of peer pressure more than logic. I've never felt
good
>around mirrors after giving into fear, regardless of what type fear.

Yes, but you mention falls in your previous post. Like you, I climbed for
myself, not for endorsements or recognition. I was privileged to climb in
some great areas and because of that, doomed to take some serious falls.
Unless one is a rock gymnast, and I was not, that peeling off moment when
gravity claims its own power is guaranteed to make you question your own
sanity. And the impact at the end of the fall is never as easy on your
spine as you hope. Then there is the nagging question of the rope on some
edge and the hope that protection will stay in place.

I could never do the free climbs. I've helped carry off those who did. It
bothered me but not as much as seeing myself lying as they fell. The peer
pressure is tremendous among climbers and we always wonder if we could have
made the crux move that someone else led.

>But, as I age, and give into fears that I would never have had when
younger,
>I am finding it somewhat emotionally difficult to deal with .... but it's
what I now am, ..... I can't pretend to be otherwise.

It is annoying to look back and find that we were different then. To me
it's become a question of durability. As you say, as we both know, while we
may acknowledge the fears, our bodies are also doing a damned good job of
telling us when we have to quit. It's no longer the path that troubles us
as much as the nasty little realization that there may be an end to the
path.

Having said all that, it would be good to sit and spin climbing and other
yarns with you. I've read much of what you've posted since I arrived and do
believe we'd enjoy fishing and yarning together.

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar
Save a cow, eat a PETA

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

Larry L
September 25th, 2003, 12:54 AM
"slenon" > wrote

good to sit and spin climbing and other
> yarns with you.


I seem to run into lots of "used to climb" fisher guys This summer I
bought some Patagonia flats pants ( really comfy in hot weather and I like
doing biz with them, their eco-policy is top rate ) at Blue Ribbon. True
to my grumpy nature I was bitching about the price and made a comment
something to the effect " I can remember when Yvon Chouinard was a Camp 4
bum blacksmithing pitons, now he's probably a billionaire because of
gullible fly fishermen" Turns out John Jurachek who was selling me the
pants used to climb.

The fall that stoped my climbing was a loose rock deal, I was resting, after
the move of a short climb. I felt funny, looked down, and simply wasn't
attached anymore, my toe holds had just popped out.. After about 15 or so
feet ( it was bolt protected I was in little danger) I instinctively stuck
out my right foot trying to catch a ledge about 2 inches wide. You've been
there and can guess what two inches of ledge did to that foot after 15 or
more free falling feet ...bent it nearly off my leg .... crutches for a
long, long, time, limp to this day. And I never felt comfortable again,
on the rock, "What if this hold popped off, what about that one on the next
move?"

I'm not far from Yosemite ( usually great rock), but the fall was in the
winter at Pinnacles Nat Mon.(known for crappy rock ) I still have a bag
full of biners, stoppers and chocks, pitons ( yep I'm that old ) a pair of
EB's, a pair of PA's .... I keep thinking of leaving them at the base of
that dome by Tenaya Lake with a note "free to good home" when I go to fish
Hot creek and Crowley, but I'd probably get arrested for littering <G>

Bruiser
September 25th, 2003, 01:40 AM
"Snoop" > wrote in message

(snip)

Bob, you've got my conditions pegged. I would have been fine if I hadn't
ran down the trail. Kind of the equivalent of your bushwhacking butt
slide - dusting off some forgotten muscles, especially the downhill muscles,
can make one pretty sore.

bruce h

slenon
September 25th, 2003, 03:58 AM
> And I never felt comfortable again, on the rock, "What if this hold popped
off, what about that one on the next
>move?"

Truly a scary tale. I can imagine the anatomical damage. And the tendency
to anticipate that happening again would make it hard to take a risk or set
foot on rock.

My falling stories aren't that bad. Mostly rock rash and assorted scars,
scrapes, and avulsions. The fall that really got to me was on army laid
rope. Several pieces of questionable protection zippered out and I honestly
think I left footprints in the dust at the base of the route before that
damned laid rope snapped tight and pulled me up again.

But I quit mostly because of age, older injuries, and location. I finally
found I wasn't using my gear and sold most of it. Saved three pitons ( I'm
that old too ), an Army oval steel biner, a couple aluminum locking biners
and a rurp that took a hard fall and stayed put. They sit on a shelf in the
front room next to my slide rule and my flint and steel kit from my black
powder days.

The climbing - fly fishing juxtaposition may have to do with an appreciation
for nature. The climbers I learned from were interested in the whole
outdoor package, camping, hunting, fishing, mountaineering. Then I ran into
the rock jocks as they became more apparent. Seeing somebody carry power
tools to bolt routes just sickens me. Yeah, they can outclimb me, likely
even without their tools. And maybe they can outfish me too. But they
don't appreciate the rock, the land, or the fish. Trophy climbers, just
like trophy hunters, fishers, and road sign shooters are from a different
ethos.

You have a great backyard if you live near Yosemite. I was going to
interview at the federal hospital there but I met Gloria and came east
instead. Such is fortune!

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar
Save a cow, eat a PETA

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

Chas Wade
September 25th, 2003, 07:24 AM
Darin Minor > wrote:
>
>Chums will actually start to darken up faster than pinks, they'll
>start in the
>salt water. As far as I'm concerned, the smoker isn't even good enough
>for
>chums. There is a reason they call 'em dog salmon.
>
Well, one side of me wants to leave this comment alone so there will be
more chums for me, but the other side just couldn't leave it at that.
I caught several bright chums last year on the Sky above Monroe. They
were tasty grilled, no need to smoke them.

As a biological note, the salt/fresh thing isn't involved in the timing
of the fish turning color. They turn in anticipation of spawning, at a
standard interval before the actual spawning starts. If they are
Hoodsport fish, they often change completely in the salt. If they are
Skagit, Sky, or Stilly fish, they change as much as a week or two after
heading up the river. Particularly in the case of chums, the color
alone doesn't tell you they aren't fresh any more. Alaskan fish that
spawn in small creeks that dump straight into the salt often only spend
the last few days of their lives in the fresh water.

I do wonder when the Yukon river kings change color. They have over
2000 miles of fresh water to navigate.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Warren
September 25th, 2003, 10:06 AM
wrote...
> The best thing about the fishing, hunting and things i have in my life is
> not enjoying them for themselves but sharing them. I guess that probably
> sounds trite, but it's exactly how I feel.

True story. I often feel the same way and have a hard time
describing that feeling. It is kind of like getting your kid
into their first fish, or any fish for that matter. You are
happy because you get to share an experience that has brought
you so much joy in the past, but also take a little bit of
"pride" in getting that person into fish too. It is sort of
like vicariously fishing through another and being able to
share the happiness, but also experience it through them at
the same time.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Warren
September 25th, 2003, 10:13 AM
wrote...
> I wasn't giving you any **** for not letting me know this time, I read that
> it was spur of the moment.

Yeah I know, but RW and I talked about how we wished we had
more time so that we could have got you and Dave together too.

> You're only about 12 hours away here where I'm at, couple a hours closer on
> Chas' side of the pond. There are guys that head to Montana just for the 2
> day weekend from here. I know it's not an ideal situation for you but if the
> thoughts are running through your head it's something to consider. The last
> thing I'm trying to do is to talk you into moving over here and away from the
> love of your life (your daughter, not fishing).

12 hours doesn't sound like much until you get behind the
wheel and actually do it. I doubt the weather will be as good
next time I/we go. That 12 hour drive may turn into a 16+
hour drive based upon weather. I wish I were closer, but you
nailed what is keeping me from moving over. Of course she is
a little fisherman and would probably enjoy those trips when
she gets a little bit older. <g>

When Lou Teletski was out here, the youngin' caught a 17" cutt
on her own. I actually cast, but the fish took and when I set
the hook I gave her the rod. She landed that thing on her own
and then made me take the rod so she could net it. Every time
she comes over she wants to go out in the boat too. Must be
good genetics. ;-)
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Warren
September 25th, 2003, 10:27 AM
wrote...
> Do you suppose it would help to tie on a mono weedguard
> like on bass and pike flies? It might cut down on fair hookups
> too, but it doesn't sound like that would be too much of a
> problem.

Maybe. I really don't enough experience with fishing flies
with weedguards, or pinks for that matter..... The only time
I really had a problem with foul hooking seemed to be in water
that was about knee deep and maybe 20-30' out. The line would
cross their hump, the belly of the fly line would drag and
cause the fly to hook the males in the hump. A weedguard may
be worth checking out. Tying the flies with the hook point up
may also be something worth looking into.....
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Warren
September 25th, 2003, 10:28 AM
wrote...
> Now I know how you hooked those few dark pinks on Sunday -- the ones
> that weren't taking. :-)

Hey, I told you I didn't count those. I caught 3 fair and
square and I am a little more strict on what is considered
"fair hooked" than what Chas described the regs as. It is
mouth or nothing as far as I am concerned.

--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Clark Reid
September 25th, 2003, 10:55 AM
"Warren" wrote
> True story. I often feel the same way and have a hard time
> describing that feeling. It is kind of like getting your kid
> into their first fish, or any fish for that matter. You are
> happy because you get to share an experience that has brought
> you so much joy in the past, but also take a little bit of
> "pride" in getting that person into fish too. It is sort of
> like vicariously fishing through another and being able to
> share the happiness, but also experience it through them at
> the same time.

That's exactly it... I feel like that guiding too, but it's even better with
your kids.


--
Clark Reid
http://www.dryflynz.com
Umpqua Designer Flytier

Jonathan Cook
September 25th, 2003, 04:03 PM
"Bruiser" > wrote in message >...
>
> We are looking forward to the Juan and seeing your pictures.

Thanks for the Rio Grande TR. I've always wanted to fish it
in the fall but that's a busy time for us and if I have any days
I'm usually trying to figure out how I can go hunting with them...

Bruce, we need to plan a Penasco day...email me and we'll figure
something out...I'll bet now thru mid-November or so it'll fish
pretty good, as long as we don't happen to hit rain/snow runoff.
I haven't been back since that last TR I did. (shoot, they've
already turned the river below EB off and I haven't even been
carp fishing yet!)

I'm really bummed I'll miss the Dec SJ trip...but my work provided
"an offer I can't refuse" :-) But, I am expecting to be up on the
SJ Oct 11-13, provided no snags come up.

Jon.

Chas Wade
September 26th, 2003, 04:11 AM
Warren > wrote:
> Tying the flies with the hook point up
>may also be something worth looking into.....
>--

The ones I tied are clouser style, mostly to prevent the foul hooking.
It seems to me that managing the drift can also prevent the foul
hooking. Monday and Wednesday I was on the Skagit, and only foul
hooked a couple fish while fair hooking over fifty each day. The
Rockport hole was particularly hot Wednesday. The water was a foot
lower than when you were there, and the fish were easier to see. I
couldn't manage to catch more than seven in a row, but the fun part was
the way they were taking the flies. They would follow the fly for
about ten feet, and then just pick up the fly as they followed it. If
you saw it happening and set the hook it was a nice hookup. If you
were slow enough they spit it out and you had to wait for the next fish
to pick it up on the same cast. I caught a 7.5 pound buck that looked
like Steve's.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Chas Wade
September 26th, 2003, 04:13 AM
Warren > wrote:
wrote...
>> Now I know how you hooked those few dark pinks on Sunday -- the ones
>> that weren't taking. :-)
>
>Hey, I told you I didn't count those. I caught 3 fair and
>square and I am a little more strict on what is considered
>"fair hooked" than what Chas described the regs as. It is
>mouth or nothing as far as I am concerned.
>
The regs define "legal" as hooked in the head. I'm with you, fair
hooked is inside the mouth.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Darin Minor
September 26th, 2003, 04:23 AM
Chas Wade wrote:

> Darin Minor > wrote:
> >
> >Chums will actually start to darken up faster than pinks, they'll
> >start in the
> >salt water. As far as I'm concerned, the smoker isn't even good enough
> >for
> >chums. There is a reason they call 'em dog salmon.
> >
> Well, one side of me wants to leave this comment alone so there will be
> more chums for me, but the other side just couldn't leave it at that.
> I caught several bright chums last year on the Sky above Monroe. They
> were tasty grilled, no need to smoke them.
>
> As a biological note, the salt/fresh thing isn't involved in the timing
> of the fish turning color. They turn in anticipation of spawning, at a
> standard interval before the actual spawning starts. If they are
> Hoodsport fish, they often change completely in the salt. If they are
> Skagit, Sky, or Stilly fish, they change as much as a week or two after
> heading up the river. Particularly in the case of chums, the color
> alone doesn't tell you they aren't fresh any more. Alaskan fish that
> spawn in small creeks that dump straight into the salt often only spend
> the last few days of their lives in the fresh water.
>
> I do wonder when the Yukon river kings change color. They have over
> 2000 miles of fresh water to navigate.
>
> Chas
> http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

I just wrote what I'd read at one time, not actual personal experience.
Thanks for clarifying for me.
Just because they'll darken early doesn't mean I won't fish for 'em, I've
heard that they'll take some line.

Darin

Darin Minor
September 26th, 2003, 04:28 AM
Warren wrote:

> 12 hours doesn't sound like much until you get behind the
> wheel and actually do it. I doubt the weather will be as good
> next time I/we go. That 12 hour drive may turn into a 16+
> hour drive based upon weather. I wish I were closer, but you
> nailed what is keeping me from moving over. Of course she is
> a little fisherman and would probably enjoy those trips when
> she gets a little bit older. <g>
>

I've done it a couple of times now just to come see your sorry ass :) Good point
about the nastier weather. I think it would be heavy on the + in the 16+ hours.

>
> When Lou Teletski was out here, the youngin' caught a 17" cutt
> on her own. I actually cast, but the fish took and when I set
> the hook I gave her the rod. She landed that thing on her own
> and then made me take the rod so she could net it. Every time
> she comes over she wants to go out in the boat too. Must be
> good genetics. ;-)

Gave me a chill to read that, thanks.

Darin

Warren
September 26th, 2003, 07:20 AM
wrote...
> That's exactly it... I feel like that guiding too, but it's even better with
> your kids.

It *is* better with your kids, but with others it feels like
you are opening up their eyes to a world that they have not
yet seen. It can be a very serious moment when you realize
that these people are having a blast and it often makes you
appreciate where you are *yourself*. Some of my best days
fishing on a river were when I was merely handling the oars
and not fishing. This will undoubtedly zoom over some people,
but it is nice knowing that you smell what I'm steppin' in.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Chas Wade
September 28th, 2003, 04:49 AM
Darin Minor > wrote:
>I just wrote what I'd read at one time, not actual personal experience.
>Thanks for clarifying for me.

You're welcome. We need to get together and fish some time.

>Just because they'll darken early doesn't mean I won't fish for 'em,
>I've
>heard that they'll take some line.

I had a 15 pounder at Hoodsport take 50 yards of my packing out to sea
and then jump several times way out there. The guy next to me looked
over and asked, "Is that your fish way out there?". Between the grunts
I said, "You betcha". That was my 10x10 with 15 pound leader and the
drag turned up tight. Kings don't fight any harder pound for pound.
Oh, and that fish was too dark to keep.

Chas
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Darin Minor
September 29th, 2003, 04:03 AM
Chas Wade wrote:

> You're welcome. We need to get together and fish some time.
>

I'd love to get together with you sometime. Problem is right now I'm swamped
at work (I know, I know, work is over rated) and I'm trying to move up the
ladder so any extra time I put in helps me out a great deal. My only day off
is being spent with my family (just try and tell me that family is over
rated :-) However if we plan something out, I'm sure that I can probably get
away for a day. Hoodsport on a weekend day does NOT sound like my idea of
fun. I drove down there one evening after work a couple of years ago for
pinks and I didn't much care for it then. Let me know what you have in mind,
and maybe I can talk Dave Snedeker into joining us.

>
>
> I had a 15 pounder at Hoodsport take 50 yards of my packing out to sea
> and then jump several times way out there. The guy next to me looked
> over and asked, "Is that your fish way out there?". Between the grunts
> I said, "You betcha". That was my 10x10 with 15 pound leader and the
> drag turned up tight. Kings don't fight any harder pound for pound.
> Oh, and that fish was too dark to keep.

That must have been one nice fish, except for color of course.

Darin

Bruiser
September 29th, 2003, 03:19 PM
Jon,

Dang I may not make it down there this fall! I'll keep you posted and thank
you for the invite.

bruce h