caddis hackle question

[no]

On a elk hair cadis, the hackle is short and extends from the front to
back. On a peacock caddis tho, the hackle does not extend down the
body. It also is the same height as the wing, while the elk hair caddis
is about half the height. You can see the differences in the caddis
section at http://www.guidebc.com/flypatterns.asp

[Bob Weinberger]

"no" > wrote in message ...
> On a elk hair cadis, the hackle is short and extends from the front to
> back. On a peacock caddis tho, the hackle does not extend down the
> body. It also is the same height as the wing, while the elk hair caddis
> is about half the height. You can see the differences in the caddis
> section at http://www.guidebc.com/flypatterns.asp

So what's your question?
What you are looking at are simply some of the variations in caddis patterns by various tiers. Some
people tie an elk hair caddis with short hackles, some with long hackles, some with the hackle clipped
flat on the bottom (even some with no hackle, though that's usually called something else). It is
simply a matter of tier's preference and/or the conditions where it will be used - e.g. glassy smooth
water, heavily riffled waters, dead drifted or twitched, etc.



--
Bob Weinberger - La Grande, OR

Remove "invalid" and place a dot between bobs and stuff to reply email

[no]

In article >,
"Bob Weinberger" > wrote:

>
> "no" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On a elk hair cadis, the hackle is short and extends from the front to
> > back. On a peacock caddis tho, the hackle does not extend down the
> > body. It also is the same height as the wing, while the elk hair caddis
> > is about half the height. You can see the differences in the caddis
> > section at http://www.guidebc.com/flypatterns.asp
>
> So what's your question?
> What you are looking at are simply some of the variations in caddis patterns
> by various tiers. Some
> people tie an elk hair caddis with short hackles, some with long hackles,
> some with the hackle clipped
> flat on the bottom (even some with no hackle, though that's usually called
> something else). It is
> simply a matter of tier's preference and/or the conditions where it will be
> used - e.g. glassy smooth
> water, heavily riffled waters, dead drifted or twitched, etc.

Ok... I am a newbie tie flier and would like to know the rationality for
tieing them differently. Why should I tie it one way or the other?
Lets say I always dead dwift, and lots of times on glassy smooth water.

[Bob Weinberger]

"no" > wrote in message news:no-

> Ok... I am a newbie tie flier and would like to know the rationality for
> tieing them differently. Why should I tie it one way or the other?
> Lets say I always dead dwift, and lots of times on glassy smooth water.

For those conditions, I would tie mostly no hackle caddis patterns, e.g. X-caddis, or CDC & elk.
Lower profile, more realistic, and frankly I've just had better results with that style pattern under
the conditions you stipulate.


--
Bob Weinberger - La Grande, OR

Remove "invalid" and place a dot between bobs and stuff to reply email

[Scott Seidman]

"Bob Weinberger" > wrote in
:

>
> "no" > wrote in message news:no-
>
>> Ok... I am a newbie tie flier and would like to know the rationality
>> for tieing them differently. Why should I tie it one way or the
>> other? Lets say I always dead dwift, and lots of times on glassy
>> smooth water.
>
> For those conditions, I would tie mostly no hackle caddis patterns,
> e.g. X-caddis, or CDC & elk. Lower profile, more realistic, and
> frankly I've just had better results with that style pattern under the
> conditions you stipulate.
>
>

I truly love the fluttering caddis for those situations. zlon underwing
(or some other artificial), subtle, wood duck overwing, tied straight back.
Grizz hackle up front, cut flat on the bottom.

Scott

[Willi]

no wrote:
> In article >,
> "Bob Weinberger" > wrote:
>
>
>>"no" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>On a elk hair cadis, the hackle is short and extends from the front to
>>>back. On a peacock caddis tho, the hackle does not extend down the
>>>body. It also is the same height as the wing, while the elk hair caddis
>>>is about half the height. You can see the differences in the caddis
>>>section at http://www.guidebc.com/flypatterns.asp
>>
>>So what's your question?
>>What you are looking at are simply some of the variations in caddis patterns
>>by various tiers. Some
>>people tie an elk hair caddis with short hackles, some with long hackles,
>>some with the hackle clipped
>>flat on the bottom (even some with no hackle, though that's usually called
>>something else). It is
>>simply a matter of tier's preference and/or the conditions where it will be
>>used - e.g. glassy smooth
>>water, heavily riffled waters, dead drifted or twitched, etc.
>
>
> Ok... I am a newbie tie flier and would like to know the rationality for
> tieing them differently. Why should I tie it one way or the other?
> Lets say I always dead dwift, and lots of times on glassy smooth water.

It's a matter of style.

If I was fishing glassy smooth water, I'd probably start with one with
no hackle. My favorite caddis dry is similar in hackle style to the
peacock one, but I generally tie it with a hackle undersized by one size
but with a couple of extra turns of hackle. I'd suggest that you not
always dead drift when using caddis. They're often very active bugs on
the water.

Willi

[Ernie]

There are two caddis fly imitations I love. The California Nugget and the
Church Window Caddis. The first is a great dry fly with full hackle and the
second is a semi-wet fly with no hackle and flat wing. Both are made with
deer hair.
Ernie

[Sierra fisher]

are there any instructions, and or pictures, available for these two caddis?

Re hackle on caddis. I usually put on a lot of hackle because I like to
fish them is fast water. I will often palmer the fairly long hackle
foreward, then add three of four turns of even longer grizzley at the neck
after I have added the wing. I like to see my dry flies, and x-caddis don't
cut it for me


"Ernie" <NO_ > wrote in message
m...
> There are two caddis fly imitations I love. The California Nugget and the
> Church Window Caddis. The first is a great dry fly with full hackle and
the
> second is a semi-wet fly with no hackle and flat wing. Both are made with
> deer hair.
> Ernie
>
>


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[Ernie]

"Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
...
> are there any instructions, and or pictures, available for these two
caddis?
>
The California Nugget with tying instructions can be seen at:
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw/050399fotw.html

Church Window Caddis: I don't have a picture of it but here are the tying
instructions:

Hook: Mustad-36620-size12-Thunder Creek Series or; Partridge-size 12-
Limerick Loop Eye-6XL
Thread: Black
Wing: Ringneck Pheasant- Church Window Feather
Body: Deer Hair (natural color)

The deer hair should be an inch and a half long or longer. Cut some hair
from the hide and clean out the short hairs. Place it in a stacker; align
the tips and trim the butts even. Tie the thread in about one third of the
way back from the hook eye. Use a bunch of hair a little smaller than half
the diameter of a pencil. The hair should be about two and one third times
as long as the hook shank.
1. Tie the hair with the butts facing forward, using five overlapping turns
of thread at the place you tied the thread in. Place the thread at the end
of the butts so it doesn't flare. The tips should extend back past the end
of the hook. Let the hair cover all sides of the hook and use closely
spaced spiral wraps back to the bend in the hook. Take five overlapping
turns of thread around the hair at the bend and let the bobbin hang.
2. Use both hands to fold the deer hair forward so the tips are beyond the
eye of the hook. Smooth the hair so it is evenly distributed on all sides
of the hook. Hold the hair with one hand and use a dozen spiral wraps back
to the hook eye. Take five overlapping turns just behind the hook eye, then
wrap the thread back toward the bend about one-quarter the length of the
hook shank and let the bobbin hang.
3. Use both hands to fold the deer back so the tips are facing toward the
bend of the hook. The tips of the hair should extend a third of the way
back along the hook. Hold the deer hair with one hand and take five
overlapping turns at the place where your thread is hanging.
4. Strip the barbs from the stem of the feather to the place where the
church window begins. Smear head cement on both sides of the feather and
pull it between your thumb and finger. This will narrow the feather and
hold it together. Allow the cement to dry.
5. Place the feather on top of the deer hair with the shiny side up. The end
of the feather should reach a little beyond the back of the hook. The stem
should stick out over the hook eye. Hold the top and sides of the feather
against the deer hair and take five closely spaced wraps over the feather.
The wraps should be firm, but should not flare the feather. Place four half
hitches over the wraps and coat them with head cement. Cut the thread.
6. Grab the quill and pull the front part of the feather back over the
wraps. Cut the quill off where it meets the feather. This makes a little
triangular collar over the wing just behind the head of the fly. The tips
of the deer hair should be sticking out below the wing.

Fishing Tips:
The fly can be fished wet, or dry. Let it drift in the current, or twitch
it. You can also retrieve it with a short stripping action. The trout throw
caution to the winds and do some funny things when trying to catch it.

Ernie Harrison

[Sierra fisher]

thanks for all of the work. I'll giv both a try.
JFK


"Ernie" <NO_ > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
> ...
> > are there any instructions, and or pictures, available for these two
> caddis?
> >
> The California Nugget with tying instructions can be seen at:
> http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw/050399fotw.html
>
> Church Window Caddis: I don't have a picture of it but here are the tying
> instructions:
>
> Hook: Mustad-36620-size12-Thunder Creek Series or; Partridge-size 12-
> Limerick Loop Eye-6XL
> Thread: Black
> Wing: Ringneck Pheasant- Church Window Feather
> Body: Deer Hair (natural color)
>
> The deer hair should be an inch and a half long or longer. Cut some hair
> from the hide and clean out the short hairs. Place it in a stacker; align
> the tips and trim the butts even. Tie the thread in about one third of
the
> way back from the hook eye. Use a bunch of hair a little smaller than
half
> the diameter of a pencil. The hair should be about two and one third
times
> as long as the hook shank.
> 1. Tie the hair with the butts facing forward, using five overlapping
turns
> of thread at the place you tied the thread in. Place the thread at the
end
> of the butts so it doesn't flare. The tips should extend back past the end
> of the hook. Let the hair cover all sides of the hook and use closely
> spaced spiral wraps back to the bend in the hook. Take five overlapping
> turns of thread around the hair at the bend and let the bobbin hang.
> 2. Use both hands to fold the deer hair forward so the tips are beyond the
> eye of the hook. Smooth the hair so it is evenly distributed on all sides
> of the hook. Hold the hair with one hand and use a dozen spiral wraps
back
> to the hook eye. Take five overlapping turns just behind the hook eye,
then
> wrap the thread back toward the bend about one-quarter the length of the
> hook shank and let the bobbin hang.
> 3. Use both hands to fold the deer back so the tips are facing toward the
> bend of the hook. The tips of the hair should extend a third of the way
> back along the hook. Hold the deer hair with one hand and take five
> overlapping turns at the place where your thread is hanging.
> 4. Strip the barbs from the stem of the feather to the place where the
> church window begins. Smear head cement on both sides of the feather and
> pull it between your thumb and finger. This will narrow the feather and
> hold it together. Allow the cement to dry.
> 5. Place the feather on top of the deer hair with the shiny side up. The
end
> of the feather should reach a little beyond the back of the hook. The
stem
> should stick out over the hook eye. Hold the top and sides of the feather
> against the deer hair and take five closely spaced wraps over the feather.
> The wraps should be firm, but should not flare the feather. Place four
half
> hitches over the wraps and coat them with head cement. Cut the thread.
> 6. Grab the quill and pull the front part of the feather back over the
> wraps. Cut the quill off where it meets the feather. This makes a little
> triangular collar over the wing just behind the head of the fly. The tips
> of the deer hair should be sticking out below the wing.
>
> Fishing Tips:
> The fly can be fished wet, or dry. Let it drift in the current, or twitch
> it. You can also retrieve it with a short stripping action. The trout
throw
> caution to the winds and do some funny things when trying to catch it.
>
> Ernie Harrison
>
>


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[no]

In article >,
Willi > wrote:

> If I was fishing glassy smooth water, I'd probably start with one with
> no hackle. My favorite caddis dry is similar in hackle style to the
> peacock one, but I generally tie it with a hackle undersized by one size
> but with a couple of extra turns of hackle. I'd suggest that you not
> always dead drift when using caddis. They're often very active bugs on
> the water.

That is how I learned... How do I do the alternative?

[Sierra fisher]

My wife usually dead drifts them downstream, then strips them back like a
streamer, at or just below the surface. Catches more fish in the strip


"no" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Willi > wrote:
>
> > If I was fishing glassy smooth water, I'd probably start with one with
> > no hackle. My favorite caddis dry is similar in hackle style to the
> > peacock one, but I generally tie it with a hackle undersized by one size
> > but with a couple of extra turns of hackle. I'd suggest that you not
> > always dead drift when using caddis. They're often very active bugs on
> > the water.
>
> That is how I learned... How do I do the alternative?


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