Micro-Patterns

[Peter Charles]

Really, I have to stop flirting with these little things and strike up
a serious relationship. The usual rituals have been performed, bought
the books, the hooks, tied up tricos and nits, knotted ridiculous
lengths of 7X, but after a date or two, the infatuation dies and the
dalliance ends. There's not a shred of doubt in my mind that late
season fishing on flat water, over fish that have been on the end of a
four month pounding, requires some serious talent with the little ones
but the commitment has been weak.

The season is virtually over and I'll not pass this way again until
next September but I thought a rehash would later stand me in good
stead when the snow is blowing, the fireplace is lit, the scotch has
followed its usual warming path and it's time to tie the little ones.
Last week, we had a few trico spinners, some little yellow quill, plus
the odd, small caddis - nothing over much #20 (except for the one or
two caddis). After Isabelle Light sprinkled the area, I had gone
fishing hoping for high, off-colour water so I was equipped with my
short, 5 wt. Winston and not much in the way of leader material (not
much is necessary for streamers). So when the water was found to be
running clear and the fish were rising steadily for the little guys, I
knew I was in doo-doo. Despite the fumbling and bumbling, I did
manage a 10 incher on one of Willi's caddis emergers.

It was obvious from watching one of Grindstone's guides do a little
"field research" that a long rod, short line, and long, fine leader
was the way to go. Rob fished across stream and a little down as an
upstream presentation rarely got a good look. It's over if the fish
see the leader. Very little, if any fly line touched the water as Rob
managed a drag free drift over the rising fish. Given the wind and
the long, fine leaders, accuracy was impossible so it took many casts
to get that one good drift across the window. These fish were
originally stockers, but there was no puppychow instincts left in them
now as they would time-and-again turn their little fishy noses up at
anything that wasn't perfect in presentation. With monotonous
regularity, I'd watch one rise up, examine the fly for a moment, the
flip over and head down. On a couple of occasions, the little 10"
browns even seemed to spit water onto my trico spinner in finny
disdain.

I have never been much of a dead-drift, emerger angler as I had little
faith I could detect the strike, but here I was with an itty-bitty
caddis on the end of an abortion of a 10' leader, casting out in a
bitchy wind, with too short a rod, with too much line in the water to
get a good drift for very long, so don't I actually see the swirl and
hook the little bugger. A thought crosses my mind that I could
actually get to like this. (Note to self: Remember to book an
afternoon with a therapist over this emerging masochistic streak).

Now to the serious business; the gear. About eight years ago on the
Bow, I bumped into a fellow Hamilton club angler who was nymphing the
bankside runs using a 10' Loomis 3 wt. I thought it was a very odd
stick indeed, yet watching James vacuum up fish after fish left me
intrigued. Now, it seems to be the perfect stick for the job. I do
have a 10'6" 4 wt. but it seems very beefy for such delicate work. I
suppose I'll have to make do - such is life. Lines are almost
irrelevant, though given the tough winds we often face on the Grand, a
bassbug 6 wt. on the end of the 4 wt. rod would probably give me the
windy day turnover I need. I'd probably have to add the 7 X tippet to
3 X leaders or the fly won't be going far. When things aren't so
gusty, any old 4 wt. line would probably do as it's the least
important of the kit. Tippet would probably have to be 7X FC (one guy
was using 8X FC and downstream-only presentations) as the term
"leader-shy' doesn't do it justice by half.

The little yellow quill appears to be a really overlooked fly as there
were a fair number of crippled duns on the surface and the fish
appeared to be working an emerging hatch regularly. Duns riding on
top weren't visible and no fish were taking on top except for the odd
sip. I later read that these little yellow quill hatch so fast that
the fish ignore the duns completely. It's obvious now that the fish
were taking the little YQ emergers as they rose to hatch with perhaps
the odd sip of a cripple. Willi's little caddis emerger was probably
taken for one of the YQ emergers as I believe that the size and colour
were about right for the nymph.

The presentation consisted of getting close to a working fish (off to
one side and slightly upstream) then casting a few feet above the
fish. The rod was held more or less parallel to the water with
virtually no line of the water. Small corrections are made to the
downstream drift to keep everything absolutely drag free. The fly
should be just a few inches below the surface - a dry fly hook on FC
should get the perfect depth. I wouldn't add any floatant except
perhaps to grease some of the leader if the fly was getting down too
much. If the size and colour are right, the drift drag free, and at
the right depth, then I might have a chance.

If an insane torrent of babble invades your screen, vomited from the
icy bowels of a bitter January night, you'll know that tying these
little buggers has finally driven me mad (cue Freddie).




Peter

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[Ken Fortenberry]

Peter Charles wrote:
>
> Really, I have to stop flirting with these little things and strike up
> a serious relationship. ...

Ah grasshopper, you are on the right path.

Willi ties the by gawd finest teeny-tiny emergers I have ever fished.
I have said so here and I have shamelessly begged Willi to send me some.
(And he has most graciously done so.)

I use a 9' 3wt Winston IM6, a Cortland Clear Creek and 12' to 15' of
leader tapered down to 7x or 8x.

FWIW, there is a great book written by Darrel Martin with the same title
as this thread.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Brimbum]

Peter wrote:snip
>Really, I have to stop flirting with these little things and strike up
>a serious relationship.

This worries me a bunch. For a streamer fisherman, it sounds like you have
crossed over to the dark side.

Ain't it cool trying to figure out new stuff?
I have had the Martin book that Ken writes about and it is an excellent book. I
keep it around so it will be there when I cross over to the dark side as well.

Big Dale
Big Dale

[Lat705]

Personaly, If a fish will not hit at least a size 16, it doesn't deserve to be
caught by me.

[Peter Charles]

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:25:48 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
> wrote:

>Peter Charles wrote:
>>
>> Really, I have to stop flirting with these little things and strike up
>> a serious relationship. ...
>
>Ah grasshopper, you are on the right path.

to hell -- I know

>
>Willi ties the by gawd finest teeny-tiny emergers I have ever fished.
>I have said so here and I have shamelessly begged Willi to send me some.
>(And he has most graciously done so.)

I have some of these little jewels -- fabulous creations

>
>I use a 9' 3wt Winston IM6, a Cortland Clear Creek and 12' to 15' of
>leader tapered down to 7x or 8x.
>
>FWIW, there is a great book written by Darrel Martin with the same title
>as this thread.

Got it some years back -- now I have to read it!!

Peter

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Eastern Spey Clave, October 4th and 5th, 2003
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[Peter Charles]

On 28 Sep 2003 05:39:03 GMT, (Brimbum) wrote:

>Peter wrote:snip
>>Really, I have to stop flirting with these little things and strike up
>>a serious relationship.
>
>This worries me a bunch. For a streamer fisherman, it sounds like you have
>crossed over to the dark side.

I plan to stay married to my first love but I don't discount some sort
of permanent affair . . . . . a mistress along the lines of the French
tradition. Streamers don't get jealous.

>
>Ain't it cool trying to figure out new stuff?
>I have had the Martin book that Ken writes about and it is an excellent book. I
>keep it around so it will be there when I cross over to the dark side as well.
>
>Big Dale

I'm off to North Bay for a couple of days (work) and I'll bring it
with me. After having it a few years, it's about time I cracked it
open.


Peter

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Eastern Spey Clave, October 4th and 5th, 2003
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[Ken Fortenberry]

Lat705 wrote:

> Personaly, If a fish will not hit at least a size 16, it doesn't deserve to be
> caught by me.

Joining the 20-20 club* is one of those rites of passage that is
far better in the pursuit than in the accomplishment, but it meant
something to me at the time.

* 20" inch fish on a size 20 fly

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Dave LaCourse]

Fortenberry brags:

>* 20" inch fish on a size 20 fly
>

A 22 inch 3 lb salmon on one of Bruiser's #22s and 6x tippet.

Thanks, Bruiser.

[Ken Fortenberry]

LaCourse boasted:

> Fortenberry brags:
>
> A 22 inch 3 lb salmon on one of Bruiser's #22s and 6x tippet.

My brag was more honorable than your boast.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Willi]

Peter Charles wrote:

> If an insane torrent of babble invades your screen, vomited from the
> icy bowels of a bitter January night, you'll know that tying these
> little buggers has finally driven me mad (cue Freddie).


I find tying tiny flies painstaking. Bruce is the only guy I know that
actually likes to tie the small stuff. With flies size 20 and under,
every wrap of thread is significant and tying must be very precise. My
fingers often feel like cucumbers handling the smidgens of material
needed. But I tie them because they work.

I cut my fly fishing teeth on waters that required small flies most
of the year. On these waters I learned that it was hard to use a fly
that was too small (this was in the days when only Mustads were
available and hooks under a size 20 were very rare).

Bruce has taught me that fish will "always" take small flies. I've
fished with him when the bugs coming off were 14's and 16's and he would
be fishing 20's. When we fish together, Bruce invariably is using a fly
two or more sizes smaller than me. He'd often catch more than his share
of fish and often get into some of the best fish. I still generally use
the largest fly I can get away with for several reasons - they hold the
fish better, they're easier to tie, you can use larger tippet, the fish
stay hooked better.... However, if I'm not hitting any fish, rather
than look to just change patterns, my usual course of action is to use a
smaller fly.

Willi

[Peter Charles]

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:34:12 -0600, Willi > wrote:

>
>
>Peter Charles wrote:
>
>> If an insane torrent of babble invades your screen, vomited from the
>> icy bowels of a bitter January night, you'll know that tying these
>> little buggers has finally driven me mad (cue Freddie).
>
>
> I find tying tiny flies painstaking. Bruce is the only guy I know that
>actually likes to tie the small stuff. With flies size 20 and under,
>every wrap of thread is significant and tying must be very precise. My
>fingers often feel like cucumbers handling the smidgens of material
>needed. But I tie them because they work.
>
> I cut my fly fishing teeth on waters that required small flies most
>of the year. On these waters I learned that it was hard to use a fly
>that was too small (this was in the days when only Mustads were
>available and hooks under a size 20 were very rare).
>
> Bruce has taught me that fish will "always" take small flies. I've
>fished with him when the bugs coming off were 14's and 16's and he would
>be fishing 20's. When we fish together, Bruce invariably is using a fly
>two or more sizes smaller than me. He'd often catch more than his share
>of fish and often get into some of the best fish. I still generally use
>the largest fly I can get away with for several reasons - they hold the
>fish better, they're easier to tie, you can use larger tippet, the fish
>stay hooked better.... However, if I'm not hitting any fish, rather
>than look to just change patterns, my usual course of action is to use a
>smaller fly.
>
>Willi

>
>
>
For a guy that doesn't like to tie them, they sure are pretty.

Your waters sounds a lot like the Grand as often the best fish are
taken on the small stuff. Over the past few years, I've often nymphed
with #18 and #20 PTs and taken decent browns up to 20". In late
season, the fish are very approachable, very hard to put down, and
hyper-selective. Frustrating fishing at times but great when it is
solved.



Peter

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Eastern Spey Clave, October 4th and 5th, 2003
http://www.easternclave.ca

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[Dave LaCourse]

Fortenberry opines:

You wouldn't know honor if it bit you in the ass. It was a boast -- a boast
for Bruiser's iddy biddy flies, but you missed it.

Thanks for referring to me by my name, btw. I like that.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

[Ken Fortenberry]

Louie LaPlac hurls another insult:
>
> You wouldn't know honor if it bit you in the ass. ...

And this from a man who thinks it's honorable to do some silly
twenty-one step fandango in a ****ing hurricane. That is not just
a bit on the stupid side, it is DEEP in the stupid endzone.

If that's what you call honor, you can have it and you can keep
it way the hell away from my ass too, if you don't mind.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Dave LaCourse]

Fortenberry writes:

<snippage>

**** you, putz!

[Ernie]

"Willi" > wrote in message
...
> I find tying tiny flies painstaking. Bruce is the only guy I know that
> actually likes to tie the small stuff. >
Willi

Tie them? I am lucky if I can see them much less tie them.
Ernie

[Ken Fortenberry]

Louie LaPlac throws a tantrum:
>
>
> **** you, putz!

Oh go ahead and have your hissy fit, you silly old bitch. I don't
take it in the least bit seriously. I sat on a porch overlooking
the Watauga and watched you have a five-star meltdown over OCTANE
fer cryin' out loud. You do throw a world class tantrum, though,
I'll give you that. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Dave LaCourse]

Fortenberry writes:

<more bs snipped>

**** you, dip**** putz!

I need no hissy fit to say you are the biggest prig I have ever met. Gehrke
had you pegged. You *are* a prima donna.

How's your 7 iron working? ****in' coward!

[rw]

Dave LaCourse wrote:
> Fortenberry writes:
>
> <snippage>
>
> **** you, putz!

How many times do I have to explain this? Fortenberry is not the putz.
I'm the putz.

Fortenberry is the dip****.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Ken Fortenberry]

Dave LaCourse wrote:
> ...
> How's your 7 iron working? ****in' coward!

I'll tell you who the ****in' coward is, oh man of "honor", it's not the
guy who defends his wife with a 7 iron, or the nut job who dies as a martyr
of Islam, it's the smug, "honorable" pawn who sits in safety many miles
away and pushes the buttons that kill and maim innocent children. The US
military wouldn't even THINK of going into harms way unless they had
overwhelming superiority in technology, weaponry and numbers.

The military is a necessary evil and there is no honor in it. The bull****
you call honor is nothing more than the babble of fools.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Dave LaCourse]

Fortenberry writes:

>The military is a necessary evil and there is no honor in it. The bull****
>you call honor is nothing more than the babble of fools.

And the hole grows deeper.

A 7 iron to protect your wife? What a crock of ****. You're a ****in' coward,
Fortenberry, hiding behind your wife's skirts.

Man, was Gehrke ever right about you.

[Ken Fortenberry]

Louie LaPlac wrote:
> Fortenberry writes:
>
>>The military is a necessary evil and there is no honor in it. The bull****
>>you call honor is nothing more than the babble of fools.
>
> And the hole grows deeper.
>
> A 7 iron to protect your wife? What a crock of ****. You're a ****in' coward,
> Fortenberry, hiding behind your wife's skirts.

I only had to swing that club on one occasion, and it was to protect the wife.

> Man, was Gehrke ever right about you.

Yeah, it doesn't surprise me in the least that you and the Village Idiot
would think alike. Birds of a feather and all that.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Ernie]

"rw" > wrote in message
. ..
> Dave LaCourse wrote:
> > Fortenberry writes:
> >
> > <snippage>
> >
> > **** you, putz!
>
> How many times do I have to explain this? Fortenberry is not the putz.
> I'm the putz.
>
> Fortenberry is the dip****.

Don't you just love the way these threads lead to God knows what?
Ernie

[Dave LaCourse]

Fortenberry writes:

>I only had to swing that club on one occasion, and it was to protect the
>wife.
>

Lilke I said, hiding behind your wife's skirts. Big protest hero Fortenberry.
Big protest coward, Fortenberry. Gehrke may have had his many faults, but he
had you pegged perfectly. For you to make fun of his or anyone's intellect is
proof that you are a prig. Thanks for proving my point. A coward and a prig.
Wonderful combination.

[Ken Fortenberry]

Louise LaPlac got her panties in a bunch and spluttered:
> ...
> A coward and a prig.
> Wonderful combination.

But what happened to putz and dip**** ? All that expert coaching from
Barnard and you can't even sustain a coherent hissy fit from one post
to the next ? You're losing it, Louise.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Dave LaCourse]

Fortenberry writes:

>But what happened to putz and dip**** ? All that expert coaching from
>Barnard and you can't even sustain a coherent hissy fit from one post
>to the next ? You're losing it, Louise.

He may be right, you are a dip****. But a more honest and true description
would be cowardly prig. Fits you perfectly.

[Ken Fortenberry]

Dave LaCourse wrote:
>
> ... But a more honest and true description
> would be cowardly prig. Fits you perfectly.

You don't know any more about honesty and truth than I do about
military "honor". If you deliberately set out to lose a friend,
you have succeeded admirably.

EOT for me.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Dave LaCourse]

Fortenberry writes:

>If you deliberately set out to lose a friend,
>you have succeeded admirably.

You were never a friend, Ken. You have said things in the past to
*deliberately* hurt me. With a friend like you I sure as hell don't need many
enemies. I didn't set out to lose anything; I just got sick and tired of your
negative attitude about this country. If someone said, "God Bless America,"
you got all out of shape because he used the word god and he blessed America.
When the ChiComs released the crew of that crashed EP-3 (men that were taught
by men that I taught), and I praised their release, you jumped down my throat
with shouts of jingoism. You really are an asshole, Ken. I guess I've always
known you to be a cowardly prig -- I just didn't want to admit it to myself.

I'm glad I made my peace with Gehrke before he died. I wish I could tell him
how correct he was about you.

[Tom Littleton]

Dave LaC writes:

<a host of nasty stuff about Fortenberry>

good lord, you two! It is a shame to see a couple of longstanding regulars at
this bar **** on one another like this. It is so unseemly for ROFF....um, er,
on second thought, never mind.
Tom

[rw]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
>
> EOT for me.

Dip****.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[vincent p. norris]

>Joining the 20-20 club* is one of those rites of passage ....
>
>* 20" inch fish on a size 20 fly

Is there a 3-3 club?

vince

[Bruiser]

Gosh, thanks for the nice compliments! Anyone who's fished with Willi and I
will notice, however, that Willi keeps saying: "There we go" over and over
while I change flies and beat the water. I've learned a ton from Willi and
all of his flies are beautiful. Just yesterday I was fishing one of his
small Snowshoe duns. I tie the pattern also, just as he taught me, but mine
look a bit different. Yesterday the fishing was pretty good and eventually
I was just blind casting Willi's tiny snowshoe dun (a dead ringer for a
hatching baetis and I was seeing a few duns) up into the riffles and
inevitably a little trout would rise up out of the fast water and casually
take it. Prior to that I was fishing a parachute adams and it didn't work
nearly as well. I think the Willi pattern that Warren really likes is a
quill bodied CDC wing emerger and that is a very cool bug - very buggy and
natural looking.

I do love to tie and fish small bugs though.

bruce h

[Mu Young Lee]

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Peter Charles wrote:

> On a couple of occasions, the little 10" browns even seemed to spit
> water onto my trico spinner in finny disdain.

See, you're going to need that doctorate if you're gonna outsmart these
guys.

> I have never been much of a dead-drift, emerger angler as I had little
> faith I could detect the strike

I actually use indicator putty on occasion when fishing small dries -
expecially in certain situations where the glare makes my color blind eyes
almost worthless in tracking the fly.

Mu

[Larry L]

"Mu Young Lee" >

>
> I actually use indicator putty on occasion when fishing small dries -
> expecially in certain situations where the glare makes my color blind eyes
> almost worthless in tracking the fly.
>


Me too, and I tie "3 wing" spinners to increase visability ... these have
winging above the water as well as the standard "spent" position ... it is
very seldom indeed that one won't work for a fish when a full spent pattern
will ... IME

If you use hackle for spinner wings, just trim the bottom leave the top half
full, ( I carry folding scissors for quickly changing to full spent ... IF
needed ) If you use organza or some such, tie in a few strands before the
"spent wing" then pull those strands over that wing "loop wing" style after
it is in place ... again quickly changed to full spent in the rare cases a
fish refuses the "3 wing" .... many fish seen to be eating duns will take a
3 wing too, fwiw.

I just "invented" ( like anything is new,<G> but it was an original thought
to me, if not the world ) the 3 wing this summer and thus far it looks great
.... and has worked very well places like Hebgen and Henry's Fork that tend
to test patterns severely. The need to see what a few years back would have
been easy was the mother of the invention ... maybe a full spent would get
more rises but I don't see them so I get more fish with the 3 wing, so
whether it would be "better" for someone with younger eyes is something I
can't comment on.

[Larry L]

Oh, and, .... I discovered that a single strand of black crystal flash along
the leading edge of a callibaetis spinner wing seems to increase it's
effectiveness on tough fish .... the naturals have a distinct leading wing
edge and maybe "been caught before" fish start looking for it? ... the
pattern modification hasn't been tested enough to become permanent in my
box, but I bet a few more callibaetis spinner falls give it that status,
from what I've seen

[Guyz-N-Flyz]

"Tom Littleton" > wrote in message
...
> Dave LaC writes:
>
> <a host of nasty stuff about Fortenberry>
>
> good lord, you two! It is a shame to see a couple of longstanding
regulars at
> this bar **** on one another like this. It is so unseemly for ROFF....um,
er,
> on second thought, never mind.
> Tom

Can't ya just feel the LUV?

Op --What ya wanna bet there's a country song title in this? "The Commie
Pinko and the Patriot."--

[Tom Littleton]

Op wonders aloud:
>-What ya wanna bet there's a country song title in this? "The Commie
>Pinko and the Patriot."--

if not that, at the very least a Pro Wrestling story line.
Tom
can't you just hear the announcer say:
"In the Blue Corner, brandishing a seven-
iron...".