Feds ponder how to curb rogue OHVs

[Sportsmen Against Bush]

Feds ponder how to curb rogue OHVs


http://www.sltrib.com/2004/jan/01082004/utah/127140.asp


By Brent Israelsen
(c)2004, The Salt Lake Tribune

Calling off-highway vehicles one of the four "great threats" to
ecosystems, the U.S. Forest Service is considering new rules that
would clamp down on unregulated OHV use.
A special planning team of Forest Service officials met in Salt
Lake City on Wednesday to begin planning strategies to better manage
the exploding popularity of OHVs, particularly the ubiquitous
all-terrain vehicle.
The team -- led by Jack Troyer, the Ogden-based Intermountain
regional forester -- was organized quietly last summer at the
direction of Forest Service Chief Dale Bosworth.
"Jack has been charged by the chief to figure out how we are going
to go about dealing with this issue," said agency spokeswoman Heidi
Valetkevitch.
In the near future, the Forest Service is expected to announce
proposed changes to federal rules to virtually prohibit so-called
cross-country OHV travel, in which vehicles depart from designated
routes.
The initiative is being met with cautious optimism by
environmentalists and OHV advocacy groups, which still are trying to
learn more about it.
"There are few areas in the forest where open, cross-country
travel is really appropriate," said Brian Hawthorne, director of the
Utah Shared Access Alliance, an OHV group.
"We want to see trail systems that are manageable, sustainable and
enforceable."
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Forest Service officials say unauthorized cross-country travel has
proliferated, causing management headaches.
"Tens of millions of OHVs are now in use -- far more than even 10
years ago," Bosworth said last year in a speech on Earth Day.
"With all those millions of users, even a tiny percentage of
problem use presents us with a big and growing problem."
Bosworth said "hundreds of miles of wildcat roads and trails" are
created each year, damaging meadows, streambeds and other sensitive
areas.

Long-standing concern: Conservationists for years have complained
about the rising tide of OHV use, but they say the Forest Service,
like the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, has been slow to respond.
The federal land-manage- ment agencies say they have too few
resources to identify and mark appropriate trails or to enforce
existing laws.
But the recent statements from Bosworth and the formation of the
Troyer-led team have encouraged environmental groups.
"There appears to be a commitment at all levels in the [Forest
Service] to get a handle on this problem," said Scott Kovarovics,
director of the Washington-based National Trails and Waters Coalition.
"They genuinely want to change how they've managed this situation."
To date, supervisors of the country's 175 national forests, which
cover 192 million acres, have generally been left with little national
guidance or clout in tackling OHV issues. As a result, some forests
are more strict than others in regulating OHV use.
In Utah, the Wasatch-Cache and Uinta national forests, through
newly revised management plans, restricted OHVs to designated trails
only. The Ashley National Forest recently instituted an emergency ban
of cross-country travel pending the revision of its management plan.

How to proceed: While the environmental and OHV communities agree
with the concept of cracking down on unauthorized OHV use in the
forests, they may disagree over how the Forest Service should do it.
Kovarovics said the agency needs to "start with a blank map,"
immediately closing unauthorized routes until OHV use has been
determined to be benign to the environment.
"There's never been an analysis of all the impacts of unauthorized
trails," Kovarovics said.
"If they say everything that exists now is legal and they're just
not going to add to it, then that's not real reform."
Hawthorne said he is nervous about a national rule change, arguing
that OHV issues should be dealt with on the forest's district level.
He also said he hopes reason will prevail when it comes to closing
roads.
Closing all unauthorized roads is not practical, he said. "You are
going to make a lawbreaker out of the law-abiding fisherman who has
always been driving down a certain road."
Closing all the unauthorized routes also could overly concentrate
motorized use on authorized routes, causing traffic congestion and
road damage, which leads to environmental damage, he said.

[MLL]

"Sportsmen Against Bush" > wrote in message
om...
> Feds ponder how to curb rogue OHVs
>
>
> http://www.sltrib.com/2004/jan/01082004/utah/127140.asp
>
>
> By Brent Israelsen
> (c)2004, The Salt Lake Tribune
>
> Calling off-highway vehicles one of the four "great threats" to
> ecosystems, the U.S. Forest Service is considering new rules that
> would clamp down on unregulated OHV use.
<snip>
Isn't it interesting how many of those who cry "freedom" can't abide by
existing laws and regulations.
<snip>

[Wolfgang]

"MLL" > wrote in message
...
>
> Isn't it interesting how many of those who cry "freedom" can't abide by
> existing laws and regulations.

Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George Washington, John
Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Paul Revere, Mohandas Ghandi, Rosa
Parks, M.L. King Jr., and a few others come readily to mind.

Wolfgang

[Hayduke]

Same goes for all those that engage in civil and not-so-civil
disobedience. Anarchists and ecotagers come to mind.

Peace

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:35:31 -0600, "Wolfgang" >
wrote:

>
>"MLL" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Isn't it interesting how many of those who cry "freedom" can't abide by
>> existing laws and regulations.
>
>Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George Washington, John
>Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Paul Revere, Mohandas Ghandi, Rosa
>Parks, M.L. King Jr., and a few others come readily to mind.
>
>Wolfgang
>

[Wolfgang]

"Hayduke" > wrote in message
...
> Same goes for all those that engage in civil and not-so-civil
> disobedience. Anarchists and ecotagers come to mind.

Hm......

Ya know, from what I've seen thus far, it appears that you and I share
certain attitudes about some issues, but I got this thing about
monikers.......you didn't actually happen to know Abbey personally, did you?

Wolfgang
association can be a powerful thing.......and power, as has been noted, is
easily abused.

[Hayduke]

Spent a hell of alot of time in S. Utah, rubbing shoulders in my
youth. Gotta protect your home, don't ya?

:)

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:19:26 -0600, "Wolfgang" >
wrote:

>
>Hm......
>
>Ya know, from what I've seen thus far, it appears that you and I share
>certain attitudes about some issues, but I got this thing about
>monikers.......you didn't actually happen to know Abbey personally, did you?
>
>Wolfgang
>association can be a powerful thing.......and power, as has been noted, is
>easily abused.
>

[Stan Gula]

"Wolfgang" > wrote in message
...
>
> "MLL" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Isn't it interesting how many of those who cry "freedom" can't abide by
> > existing laws and regulations.
>
> Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George Washington,
John
> Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Paul Revere, Mohandas Ghandi, Rosa
> Parks, M.L. King Jr., and a few others come readily to mind.
>
> Wolfgang

You forgot Pete Rose.

[Wolfgang]

"Hayduke" > wrote in message
...
> Spent a hell of alot of time in S. Utah, rubbing shoulders in my
> youth. Gotta protect your home, don't ya?

Hm......yeah, that'll do.

Wolfgang
who has long had a hankering to see the slickrock country......solitaire or
otherwise. :)

[Wolfgang]

"Stan Gula" > wrote in message
...
> "Wolfgang" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "MLL" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Isn't it interesting how many of those who cry "freedom" can't abide
by
> > > existing laws and regulations.
> >
> > Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George Washington,
> John
> > Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Paul Revere, Mohandas Ghandi,
Rosa
> > Parks, M.L. King Jr., and a few others come readily to mind.
> >
> > Wolfgang
>
> You forgot Pete Rose.

See, that's the trouble with consulting primary sources.......who the hell
can read all them funky signatures? :(

Wolfgang
who, truth be told, has ample reason to be happy that he learned to type.

[MLL]

"Wolfgang" > wrote in message
...
>
> "MLL" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Isn't it interesting how many of those who cry "freedom" can't abide by
> > existing laws and regulations.
>
> Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George Washington,
John
> Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Paul Revere, Mohandas Ghandi, Rosa
> Parks, M.L. King Jr., and a few others come readily to mind.
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
OHV maniacs have absolutely nothing in common with that list! How arrogantly
stupid of you to attempt such a comparison.

[Wolfgang]

"MLL" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Wolfgang" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "MLL" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Isn't it interesting how many of those who cry "freedom" can't
abide by
> > > existing laws and regulations.
> >
> > Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George
Washington,
> John
> > Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Paul Revere, Mohandas
Ghandi, Rosa
> > Parks, M.L. King Jr., and a few others come readily to mind.
> >
> > Wolfgang
> >
> >
> OHV maniacs have absolutely nothing in common with that list!

As I have no idea what an "OHV maniac" is, I am content to take your
word on this matter.

> How arrogantly
> stupid of you to attempt such a comparison.

Well, arrogance and stupidity are where you find them, I guess. It
appears that you think I am guilty of comparing "OHV maniacs" to a
list. Theoretically it is possible that I did actually do that at one
time or another but, if so, I have no recollection of it. In the
instant case, there is no evidence that I have engaged in any such
practice. Moreover, given that I know what a list is and I don't know
what an "OHV maniac" is, I can't think of any reason that I would be
tempted to compare them nor, for that matter, what purpose such a
comparison might serve even if it were demonstrated that the exercise
made any kind of sense.

Anyway, it occurs to me that you might be interested in what I DID do.
What I did was to post the names of several people who defied
"existing laws and regulations" in response to what appeared to be a
snide and remarkably stupid commentary on what its author apparently
believes to be a mutual exclusivity between freedom and morality. If
you look at the names on that list closely and find someone willing to
explain to you who those people are and what they did, you may be
surprised to learn that every one of them had a problem with existing
laws and regulations precisely because those laws and regulations
interfered with certain freedoms that they held dear. When you finish
school and grow up you may also find that many millions of people all
over the world are actually willing to concede that they had a valid
point. This explains, in large part, why all of the names on that
list are very familiar to a substantial fraction of the human beings
on this planet.

Wolfgang

[MLL]

"Wolfgang" > wrote in message
...
>
> "MLL" > wrote in message
> m...
> >
> > "Wolfgang" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "MLL" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Isn't it interesting how many of those who cry "freedom" can't
> abide by
> > > > existing laws and regulations.
> > >
> > > Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George
> Washington,
> > John
> > > Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Paul Revere, Mohandas
> Ghandi, Rosa
> > > Parks, M.L. King Jr., and a few others come readily to mind.
> > >
> > > Wolfgang
> > >
> > >
> > OHV maniacs have absolutely nothing in common with that list!
>
> As I have no idea what an "OHV maniac" is, I am content to take your
> word on this matter.
>
> > How arrogantly
> > stupid of you to attempt such a comparison.
>
> Well, arrogance and stupidity are where you find them, I guess. It
> appears that you think I am guilty of comparing "OHV maniacs" to a
> list. Theoretically it is possible that I did actually do that at one
> time or another but, if so, I have no recollection of it. In the
> instant case, there is no evidence that I have engaged in any such
> practice. Moreover, given that I know what a list is and I don't know
> what an "OHV maniac" is, I can't think of any reason that I would be
> tempted to compare them nor, for that matter, what purpose such a
> comparison might serve even if it were demonstrated that the exercise
> made any kind of sense.
>
> Anyway, it occurs to me that you might be interested in what I DID do.
> What I did was to post the names of several people who defied
> "existing laws and regulations" in response to what appeared to be a
> snide and remarkably stupid commentary on what its author apparently
> believes to be a mutual exclusivity between freedom and morality. If
> you look at the names on that list closely and find someone willing to
> explain to you who those people are and what they did, you may be
> surprised to learn that every one of them had a problem with existing
> laws and regulations precisely because those laws and regulations
> interfered with certain freedoms that they held dear. When you finish
> school and grow up you may also find that many millions of people all
> over the world are actually willing to concede that they had a valid
> point. This explains, in large part, why all of the names on that
> list are very familiar to a substantial fraction of the human beings
> on this planet.
>
> Wolfgang
>
>

What a phony. Ever heard of a non-sequitur? Learn to follow the
conversation.

[Wolfgang]

"MLL" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Wolfgang" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "MLL" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > >
> > > "Wolfgang" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "MLL" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't it interesting how many of those who cry "freedom" can't
> > abide by
> > > > > existing laws and regulations.
> > > >
> > > > Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George
> > Washington,
> > > John
> > > > Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Paul Revere, Mohandas
> > Ghandi, Rosa
> > > > Parks, M.L. King Jr., and a few others come readily to mind.
> > > >
> > > > Wolfgang
> > > >
> > > >
> > > OHV maniacs have absolutely nothing in common with that list!
> >
> > As I have no idea what an "OHV maniac" is, I am content to take your
> > word on this matter.
> >
> > > How arrogantly
> > > stupid of you to attempt such a comparison.
> >
> > Well, arrogance and stupidity are where you find them, I guess. It
> > appears that you think I am guilty of comparing "OHV maniacs" to a
> > list. Theoretically it is possible that I did actually do that at one
> > time or another but, if so, I have no recollection of it. In the
> > instant case, there is no evidence that I have engaged in any such
> > practice. Moreover, given that I know what a list is and I don't know
> > what an "OHV maniac" is, I can't think of any reason that I would be
> > tempted to compare them nor, for that matter, what purpose such a
> > comparison might serve even if it were demonstrated that the exercise
> > made any kind of sense.
> >
> > Anyway, it occurs to me that you might be interested in what I DID do.
> > What I did was to post the names of several people who defied
> > "existing laws and regulations" in response to what appeared to be a
> > snide and remarkably stupid commentary on what its author apparently
> > believes to be a mutual exclusivity between freedom and morality. If
> > you look at the names on that list closely and find someone willing to
> > explain to you who those people are and what they did, you may be
> > surprised to learn that every one of them had a problem with existing
> > laws and regulations precisely because those laws and regulations
> > interfered with certain freedoms that they held dear. When you finish
> > school and grow up you may also find that many millions of people all
> > over the world are actually willing to concede that they had a valid
> > point. This explains, in large part, why all of the names on that
> > list are very familiar to a substantial fraction of the human beings
> > on this planet.
> >
> > Wolfgang
> >
> >
>
> What a phony.

Hey! That's rude! :(

> Ever heard of a non-sequitur?

No, what is it?

> Learn to follow the conversation.

Well, I'll try. Can you sort of bring me up to speed?

Wolfgang

[Stormin Mormon]

OHV is "Over Head Valve". It's a type of engine which is used in vehicles.

--

Christopher A. Young
Jesus: The Reason for the Season
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


> > OHV maniacs have absolutely nothing in common with that list!
>
> As I have no idea what an "OHV maniac" is, I am content to take your
> word on this matter.
>

[Ken Fortenberry]

Stormin Mormon wrote:

> OHV is "Over Head Valve". It's a type of engine which is used in vehicles.

In this context, it's Off Highway Vehicle.

--
Ken Fortenberry
Missionaries: The Reason for Shotguns

[Frank Reid]

> Stormin Mormon wrote: <something stupid>
> Ken Fortenberry
> Missionaries: The Reason for Shotguns

Pithy.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

[Tim J.]

"Frank Reid" <moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf> wrote in message
...
> > Stormin Mormon wrote: <something stupid>
> > Ken Fortenberry
> > Missionaries: The Reason for Shotguns
>
> Pithy.

I thought tho, altho.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

[Stormin Mormon]

Quite seriously, I would never have thought of that. I looked at that for
days, and coulnd't make sense of it. Thank you.

--

Christopher A. Young
Jesus: The Reason for the Season
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
m...
Stormin Mormon wrote:

> OHV is "Over Head Valve". It's a type of engine which is used in vehicles.

In this context, it's Off Highway Vehicle.

--
Ken Fortenberry
Missionaries: The Reason for Shotguns

[Ken Fortenberry]

Stormin Mormon top posted the following:

> Quite seriously, I would never have thought of that. I looked at that for
> days, and coulnd't make sense of it. Thank you.

You're quite welcome.

--
Ken Fortenberry
Shotgun: The Emissary for the Missionary