suggestions for a FF backpack

[eric paul zamora]

hello everybody,

i'm currently mulling over the purchase of a backpack for fly fishing.
william joseph, fishpond, orvis/ll bean, jw outfitters and bw sports all
offer something. has anybody used any of these and can list the pros and
cons of any model? of course, a standard backpack usually offers many tie on
points for a tube so if anybody uses a specific model which they can
recommend, i'd like to hear about that too.

i'm looking for something which offers enough room for waders and maybe a
small one person tent. tie ons for a sleeping bag would be good too of
course. some of the packs offered by the big ff companies appear too small
in web photos to accomodate anything more than stuff for a day hike. i'm
thinking of a 1-2 night trip, hence the need for space for a tent, bag and
waders.

thanks,

eric
fresno, ca.

[JohnR]

I just got my girlfriend the William Joseph Coastal. It is a great
vest/pack. However, it would be much too small for what you want pack. I
think it may have room for a jacket and a hydration bladder but not much
more.

Sorry about not suggesting what to get but at least you know what won't
work.

-John

"eric paul zamora" > wrote in message
...
> hello everybody,
>
> i'm currently mulling over the purchase of a backpack for fly fishing.
> william joseph, fishpond, orvis/ll bean, jw outfitters and bw sports all
> offer something. has anybody used any of these and can list the pros and
> cons of any model? of course, a standard backpack usually offers many tie
on
> points for a tube so if anybody uses a specific model which they can
> recommend, i'd like to hear about that too.
>
> i'm looking for something which offers enough room for waders and maybe a
> small one person tent. tie ons for a sleeping bag would be good too of
> course. some of the packs offered by the big ff companies appear too small
> in web photos to accomodate anything more than stuff for a day hike. i'm
> thinking of a 1-2 night trip, hence the need for space for a tent, bag and
> waders.
>
> thanks,
>
> eric
> fresno, ca.
>

[Larry L]

If you want to carry enough to really call it backpacking ... overnight up
to extended stays ... get a pack designed for the load not for fishing ...
pack you minimalist fishin gear in it for the walk, wear a fishing shirt
and use the pockets in it for fishing, Cabela's, Patagonia, Columbia, and
others make shirts that nearly eliminate the need for a vest (if you choose
what to carry, carefully ;-)

I'm sure the technology has greatly improved since "my day" so I don't feel
I can suggest an exact pack .... frame packs handle heavy loads best ( on
improved trails ), but soft packs and "internal frame" models are far better
for cross country scrambling ... I'd suggest one of them

[Jarmo Hurri]

Oh, and I have to add this: you seem to have two dealers in Fresno

Steven's Bicycles 559-229-8163 3132 Palm Ave. Fresno, CA 93704
Herb Bauer 559-435-8600 6264 North Blackstone Ave Fresno, CA 93710

--
Jarmo Hurri

Spam countermeasures included. Drop your brain when replying, or just
use .

[Jarmo Hurri]

Eric> i'm currently mulling over the purchase of a backpack for fly
Eric> fishing.

Eric> i'm looking for something which offers enough room for waders
Eric> and maybe a small one person tent. tie ons for a sleeping bag
Eric> would be good too of course.

Hi Eric!

I can give you one recommendation. I have been looking at the
available models, because I have a similar problem: I have to select a
daypack for myself, but it would also be good if my wife could use the
same pack as a backpack when we're hiking. Therefore I have to find a
compromise between a hiking backpack and a daypack.

I've taken a look at a broad range of products from different
manufacturers, and I think that I will end up choosing some model from
the Deuter Futura series (see
http://www.deuterusa.com/Product/Hiking.htm). All of the models have
tie-in positions suitable for tubes on both sides of the pack. The
packs seem to have a solid, rugged construction. They ride high, even
the 42 liter model - this is important when you're carrying the pack
when wading. The carrying system is a bit futuristic, but it should
also keep you cooler - a very good property for a daypack.

Notice that the 22 and 28 liter models do *not* have attachment rings
for a sleeping or something similar, while the other models do have
them.

Hope this helps.

(BTW, I think my first followup left accidentally as a reply. Note
that the email address in that reply is incorrect.)

--
Jarmo Hurri

Spam countermeasures included. Drop your brain when replying, or just
use .

--
Jarmo Hurri

Spam countermeasures included. Drop your brain when replying, or just
use .

[Lazarus Cooke]

In article >, eric paul zamora
> wrote:

> i'm looking for something which offers enough room for waders and maybe a
> small one person tent. tie ons for a sleeping bag would be good too of
> course.

The trouble with this is that it amounts to a huge amount of gear.
More, for example, than I took walking across the alps from just south
of munich to Bolzano in Italy (sleeping out all the way). I took a
hardy smuggler rod, and a lightweight reel. No waders - far too heavy.
A gortex bivvy bag. If you want to carry food and the basics for
cooking ( a tiny gas cooker, some fire-lighters, a little Orvis
chainsaw that fits into a shoeshine can) you've got plenty to carry
uphill. Most important thing is plenty of stuff to carry water. It's
wonderful how efficient these are nowadays.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[Rob S.]

eric paul zamora > wrote in message >...
> hello everybody,
>
> i'm currently mulling over the purchase of a backpack for fly fishing.
> william joseph, fishpond, orvis/ll bean, jw outfitters and bw sports all
> offer something. has anybody used any of these and can list the pros and
> cons of any model? of course, a standard backpack usually offers many tie on
> points for a tube so if anybody uses a specific model which they can
> recommend, i'd like to hear about that too.
>
> i'm looking for something which offers enough room for waders and maybe a
> small one person tent. tie ons for a sleeping bag would be good too of
> course. some of the packs offered by the big ff companies appear too small
> in web photos to accomodate anything more than stuff for a day hike. i'm
> thinking of a 1-2 night trip, hence the need for space for a tent, bag and
> waders.
>
> thanks,
>
> eric
> fresno, ca.

Eric,

Unless you're looking for something customized for fishing, then there
are literally dozens of backpacks that would fit your requirements in
a variety of price ranges.

Personally when I think backpacking for flyfishing, the waters in question
are going to be rather small, so hippers are in order or in the summer...
wet-wading. Heck, I wet waded when I went in the fall last year, but
I am in NJ after all.

I would recommend an internal frame pack, and there are generally
seperate compartments for your bag, vs the rest of the gear. The
interal frame packs usually have tyins for axes etc.

I have a camptrails model that cost about $80 new that works fine.
It's not trendy nor pretty but works.

Best bet is to identify your essential gear, compute how much space
you need and then visit a backpacking/camping store like Campmor,
EMS etc. and look at various packs.

-- Rob

[Bob Patton]

"eric paul zamora" > wrote in message
...
> hello everybody,
>
> i'm currently mulling over the purchase of a backpack for fly fishing.
//snip//
> i'm looking for something which offers enough room for waders and maybe a
> small one person tent. tie ons for a sleeping bag would be good too of
> course. some of the packs offered by the big ff companies appear too small
> in web photos to accomodate anything more than stuff for a day hike. i'm
> thinking of a 1-2 night trip, hence the need for space for a tent, bag and
> waders.
>

Lots of the "Fishing packs" I've seen have a pocket to hold a rod case, but
unless you have a small case you end up with the rod case sticking up over
your head, where it catches every branch within reach. The case for my 7'9''
3-weight is less than three feet long, and I've glued some loops onto it so
that I can fasten it to my backpack at a comfortable height.

I have a Dana Designs "Bomb Pack". Don't know about taking it through
airport security, but it's a great size for a trip of up to several days.
It's a medium-size pack; if you get too large a pack you'll load it up with
a bunch of stuff you don't need. I did a Google search and found a picture
identical to my pack:
http://www.aboveroute.com/item/Dana-Designs-Bomb-Pack/i33081.htm Mine is an
old model and apparently has been replaced by a newer version shown on Dana
Design's web site at http://www.danadesign.com/packs/arc/bombpack.asp

I take an Outdoor Research bivy sack, a very light Primus stove and fuel,
and a sleeping bag. The pack has plenty of room for that, for food for
several days, and for miscellaneous other items. It also has plenty of loops
for tying things on (such as wet wading boots), and a big flap sort of
arrangement that's great for carrying waders on the outside of the pack.

I don't like the hippers suggestion because (1) they're heavy, (2) they
don't provide adequate ankle protection, and (3) you really do need to keep
your clothes dry, and even small streams can surprise you with deep pools.
Take a good pair of stocking-foot waders (light weight or breathable) and a
sturdy pair of wading boots to minimize the chance of ankle injury when
you're in the boonies.

Bob

[rw]

Lazarus Cooke wrote:
> In article >, eric paul zamora
> > wrote:
>
>
>>i'm looking for something which offers enough room for waders and maybe a
>>small one person tent. tie ons for a sleeping bag would be good too of
>>course.
>
>
> The trouble with this is that it amounts to a huge amount of gear.

Absolutely right. That's a lot of gear to carry. Leave the waders
behind, and also the tent, unless there's a good chance of severe
weather. The lighter you pack the more you'll enjoy yourself.

Are you hiking in the Sierras in the summer? If so, a tent is unnecessary.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Mike Connor]

"rw" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
m...
> Lazarus Cooke wrote:
> > In article >, eric paul zamora
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
>SNIP>
Leave the waders
> behind, and also the tent,

Yeah, why just get wet, get soaked, and freeze to ****ing death. At least
you didn´t have to carry much.

TL
MC

[rw]

Mike Connor wrote:
>
> Yeah, why just get wet, get soaked, and freeze to ****ing death. At least
> you didn´t have to carry much.

The guy was posting from Southern California. My guess (reckless though
it might have been) was that he was planning on backpacking in the
Western US Sierras or Rockies in the summer. Most of that country
doesn't require a tent. The weather is very reliable. A tarp and a
groundcloth will do. If you can keep your bag dry, you're just fine.

Tents are for the paying dudes.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Wolfgang]

"rw" > wrote in message
m...
> Lazarus Cooke wrote:
> > In article >, eric paul zamora
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>i'm looking for something which offers enough room for waders and maybe
a
> >>small one person tent. tie ons for a sleeping bag would be good too of
> >>course.
> >
> >
> > The trouble with this is that it amounts to a huge amount of gear.
>
> Absolutely right. That's a lot of gear to carry. Leave the waders
> behind, and also the tent, unless there's a good chance of severe
> weather. The lighter you pack the more you'll enjoy yourself.
>
> Are you hiking in the Sierras in the summer? If so, a tent is unnecessary.

Excellent advice!

Wolfgang
who knows that wind and rain are impossible.....at night.....in the
summer....in the sierras. :)

[Willi]

Mike Connor wrote:


>>SNIP>
>
> Leave the waders
>
>>behind, and also the tent,
>
>
> Yeah, why just get wet, get soaked, and freeze to ****ing death. At least
> you didn´t have to carry much.

When I'm doing an overnighter in the Summer to a local small stream, I
don't pack waders or a tent. IMO, sleeping out under the stars is great
if there aren't alot of bugs.

Willi

[rw]

Willi wrote:
>
> When I'm doing an overnighter in the Summer to a local small stream, I
> don't pack waders or a tent. IMO, sleeping out under the stars is great
> if there aren't alot of bugs.

It's funny how people think they just HAVE to have a tent, like it's
going to protect them from grizzlies or something. Unless you're making
an assault on Annapurna or something similar, the backpacking tent,
pound for pound, a most dispensable piece of gear.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[daytripper]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:07:54 -0700, rw >
wrote:

>Willi wrote:
>>
>> When I'm doing an overnighter in the Summer to a local small stream, I
>> don't pack waders or a tent. IMO, sleeping out under the stars is great
>> if there aren't alot of bugs.
>
>It's funny how people think they just HAVE to have a tent, like it's
>going to protect them from grizzlies or something.

They're just being thoughtful.
The bears can use the tent to wipe their rears after dining...

/daytripper (hth ;-)

[Bob Patton]

"rw" > wrote in message
m...
> Willi wrote:
> >
> > When I'm doing an overnighter in the Summer to a local small stream, I
> > don't pack waders or a tent. IMO, sleeping out under the stars is great
> > if there aren't alot of bugs.
>
> It's funny how people think they just HAVE to have a tent, like it's
> going to protect them from grizzlies or something. Unless you're making
> an assault on Annapurna or something similar, the backpacking tent,
> pound for pound, a most dispensable piece of gear.
>

You don't have to have a tent - but you do have to stay dry. And it's great
to be able to see the stars. That's why I like my bivy sack. It weighs less
than two pounds, but it accomplishes both of those objectives. I think Mr.
Zamora said he's in Fresno, and I'm not familiar with the Sierras, but
almost everywhere I've fished, it really helps to stay dry.
Bob

[rw]

Bob Patton wrote:

> I think Mr.
> Zamora said he's in Fresno, and I'm not familiar with the Sierras,

They're really dry in the summer. Really dry.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[eric paul zamora]

(chuckling)

GREAT responses. thanks everyone....

southern california??? UGH. (sorry ;-). i'm in fresno, ca, centrally
located if you forget North Fork, Ca's claim of being geographic center of
the state (just downt he road a bit towards yosemite natl park).

i have an old (circa 1980s) MEI internal backpack which if i remember
correctly, killed my shoulders the last time i used it. too many tortillas,
perhaps. i'm thinking i purchased a pack back then =tailored for smaller
frames, even IF there was some adjustment possible. in the new millimeum,
and with a tough of gear-whoredom instilled thanks to FFing, i'm looking for
something new.

perhaps it's my boyscout background, or the always be prepared motto
instilled in me by my father, pre-scout years, or the annual newsreports i
hear of people getting caught in the sierra (my backyard, now wouldn't THAT
be embarrassing!), but i'd like to be prepared for several possibilities
when it comes to changing weather, and i AM thinking of the yosemite high
country, specifically the lyell fork of the tuolumne river, over 9,000 feet
in elevation. the weather CAn change within hours.

here's what i'm hashing over. a new tent. since i like soloing, i'm thinking
of a very light one person thing, like the MSR offerings. very small packed
down, and has the option of leaving the ground cloth at home for overhead
and side covering thereby reducing pack size/weight considerably. this would
help with the constant barrage of mosquitos i have encountered up there in
the past.

i plan to start visiting that area once the high road opens, usually end of
may or sometime in june. possibility of snow on the ground at that time. my
plans also include visiting the area throughout the year until the road
closes, right around my birthday in mid november. this would encompass many
weather situations. as much as i like sleeping under the stars, and believe
me i would take those opportunities as they arises, one has to be prepared.

as for waders, at this time, this hour,m this week, i'm counting on taking
them . the pack problem is i picked up a new pair of orvis clearwater BOOT
foot waders for a steal, hardly the best packable solution. i'm also
mullingover the puchase of a pair of waist high and lightweight wading
boots. wet wading is also a possibility, but that area is fed by glaciers
and my last trip up there, the water was COLD, even thought the air was
warm.

'tis true, one can go overboard in packing and believe me, i'm no fan of
backpacking, especially after taking (pack) horses on an editorial photo
assignment a couple of years ago. still, i need to be somewhat self-reliant
and will travel reasonably light. hence my whisperlite stove, lightweight
layering clothes, small down bag, minimalist FF gear (looking at 5-7 piece
setups like the wayfarer and stowaway), etc etc etc...

sorry for not including more info and for not checking back sooner. it's
been a long day. i do truly appreciate the info so far. helpful, and very
very funny.

by the way, what's up with these trendy, cool-looking FF company offerings?
nowhere do they list cubic inch capacity measurements??? hardly practical.

i think, if i don't find something to satisfy my fly fishing company GW
factor (gear whoredom), i will turn to standard backpacks and make do. these
days, i am amazed at the myriad of choices out there. hell, i even saw ralph
lauren-branded packs a month ago. sheesh.

ps, i don't think for a second that a tent would protect me from a species
that's been wiped out ;-) even IF they were still in existence in this
area.


just another "paying dude" lost in the sierra i guess...

;-)


eric
fresno, ca.




> From: daytripper >
> Organization: Still workin' on it!
> Reply-To:
> Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:22:18 GMT
> Subject: Re: suggestions for a FF backpack
>
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:07:54 -0700, rw >
> wrote:
>
>> Willi wrote:
>>>
>>> When I'm doing an overnighter in the Summer to a local small stream, I
>>> don't pack waders or a tent. IMO, sleeping out under the stars is great
>>> if there aren't alot of bugs.
>>
>> It's funny how people think they just HAVE to have a tent, like it's
>> going to protect them from grizzlies or something.
>
> They're just being thoughtful.
> The bears can use the tent to wipe their rears after dining...
>
> /daytripper (hth ;-)

[-- Rob]

>(1) they're heavy, (2) they
>don't provide adequate ankle protection, and (3) you really do need to keep

not too argue the point too much, but did want to mention the availability of
stocking foot hippers which eliminate (1) and (2) as potential blockers.
-- so much fishing, so little time --
--please remuv the 'NOWAY2it' from my email addy to email me--

[Larry L]

"rw" > wrote

>
> The guy was posting from Southern California.

I've made several walking trips into the Kaweah area east of Fresno and
never needed either a tent or waders. The Sierra may be one of the most
"user friendly" mountain ranges on earth ...simply a great place to hike.

[Willi]

rw wrote:

> Willi wrote:
>
>>
>> When I'm doing an overnighter in the Summer to a local small stream, I
>> don't pack waders or a tent. IMO, sleeping out under the stars is great
>> if there aren't alot of bugs.
>
>
> It's funny how people think they just HAVE to have a tent, like it's
> going to protect them from grizzlies or something. Unless you're making
> an assault on Annapurna or something similar, the backpacking tent,
> pound for pound, a most dispensable piece of gear.
>


Unless there are mosquitoes!

When I was young and stupid, I used to Winter camp. Even then we didn't
use a tent. Instead made a snow cave. They were surprisingly warm (well
maybe relatively). When you hike in on skis or snowshoes you DEFINITELY
want to go as light as possible.

Willi

[Willi]

Bob Patton wrote:

> "rw" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>Willi wrote:
>>
>>>When I'm doing an overnighter in the Summer to a local small stream, I
>>>don't pack waders or a tent. IMO, sleeping out under the stars is great
>>>if there aren't alot of bugs.
>>
>>It's funny how people think they just HAVE to have a tent, like it's
>>going to protect them from grizzlies or something. Unless you're making
>>an assault on Annapurna or something similar, the backpacking tent,
>>pound for pound, a most dispensable piece of gear.
>>
>
>
> You don't have to have a tent - but you do have to stay dry. And it's great
> to be able to see the stars. That's why I like my bivy sack. It weighs less
> than two pounds, but it accomplishes both of those objectives. I think Mr.
> Zamora said he's in Fresno, and I'm not familiar with the Sierras, but
> almost everywhere I've fished, it really helps to stay dry.
> Bob
>
>


Climate varies greatly across the Country. Most of the West is very arid
and there is little rain in the Summer. We get long stretches of days
with no precipitation. I do carry a light tarp with me just in case.

For me, a tent is important for protection from bugs. I got bitten so
badly by mosquitoes on one canoing trip in Ontario, that I got sick and I
was in a tent at the time.

Willi

[rw]

eric paul zamora wrote:
>
> 'tis true, one can go overboard in packing and believe me, i'm no fan of
> backpacking, especially after taking (pack) horses on an editorial photo
> assignment a couple of years ago. still, i need to be somewhat self-reliant
> and will travel reasonably light. hence my whisperlite stove, lightweight
> layering clothes, small down bag, minimalist FF gear (looking at 5-7 piece
> setups like the wayfarer and stowaway), etc etc etc...

OK, if you think carrying a tent, waders, other FF gear, and a stove (in
addition to a bag, clothes, food, water, and God knows what else) is
traveling "light," go for it. Just do me a favor, though, and make sure
you have the means of making a fire in the worst weather. All the rest
of that crap will fade into insignificance if you get caught in
something nasty.

Are you planning on carrying wading boots, too?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Wolfgang]

"rw" > wrote in message
m...
> ...make sure
> you have the means of making a fire in the worst weather. All the rest
> of that crap will fade into insignificance if you get caught in
> something nasty...

Never happen. I have it on good authority that the Sierras are "...really
dry in summer. Really dry" Hell, man, "...a tent is unnecessary." What
would anyone need a fire for?

Wolfgang
who has some suggestions on how to keep warm at night.......should one ever
go to a place where it is a concern. :)

[rw]

Wolfgang wrote:
> "rw" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>...make sure
>>you have the means of making a fire in the worst weather. All the rest
>>of that crap will fade into insignificance if you get caught in
>>something nasty...
>
>
> Never happen. I have it on good authority that the Sierras are "...really
> dry in summer. Really dry" Hell, man, "...a tent is unnecessary." What
> would anyone need a fire for?

Because it takes about an ounce of weight. It's called insurance, in
case you get into one of those one-in-hundred emergencies. I'm not
willing to carry a multi-pound tent up and down Western US mountains in
the summer for a one-in-a-hundred chance, but maybe that's just me. The
worst I'll get into is a miserable night around a fire, and the worst
that will make for is a good camp story.

> Wolfgang
> who has some suggestions on how to keep warm at night...

****ing in your pants again?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Wolfgang]

"rw" > wrote in message
m...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> > "rw" > wrote in message
> > m...
> >
> >>...make sure
> >>you have the means of making a fire in the worst weather. All the rest
> >>of that crap will fade into insignificance if you get caught in
> >>something nasty...
> >
> >
> > Never happen. I have it on good authority that the Sierras are
"...really
> > dry in summer. Really dry" Hell, man, "...a tent is unnecessary."
What
> > would anyone need a fire for?
>
> Because it takes about an ounce of weight.

An ounce? Hm.....I guess it doesn't take much of a fire to dry out a
satellite phone. :)

> It's called insurance, in
> case you get into one of those one-in-hundred emergencies.

Well, as I've not yet encoutered a hundred emergencies I'm willing to bow to
your experience. However, in those few emergencies I HAVE encountered, more
than one required a fire.....and some of them could have been avoided or at
least ameliorated by a better tent. Insurance is o.k., but I thought you
were SELLING that.

> I'm not
> willing to carry a multi-pound tent up and down Western US mountains in
> the summer for a one-in-a-hundred chance,

O.k.

> but maybe that's just me.

We certainly hope it's just you. It would be a genuine pity to see that you
killed someone else.

> The
> worst I'll get into is a miserable night around a fire, and the worst
> that will make for is a good camp story.

Amazing that one can live to be so old and stupid without ever have seen
what moderately bad weather can do.

> > Wolfgang
> > who has some suggestions on how to keep warm at night...
>
> ****ing in your pants again?

Keeping up with your reading? :)

Wolfgang

[Bob Patton]

"Willi" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Climate varies greatly across the Country. Most of the West is very arid
> and there is little rain in the Summer. We get long stretches of days
> with no precipitation. I do carry a light tarp with me just in case.
>
> For me, a tent is important for protection from bugs. I got bitten so
> badly by mosquitoes on one canoing trip in Ontario, that I got sick and I
> was in a tent at the time.
>

I can imagine. I've never been anywhere with the mosquito problem you
mention. But I've been caught in rainstorms in New Mexico and in Montana,
and it just seems like it's asking for trouble to head into the wilderness
on a multi-day trip without the option of minimal protection from the
elements. Bivy sacks can be claustrophobic, but at least they protect you
from water (or snow) and bugs. I grew up with canvas tents, and my first
real wilderness trek almost forty years ago was two weeks in the Rockies
carrying a canvas pup pent, along with tent stakes and guy ropes. So I guess
the weight of modern materials is relative.
Bob

[rw]

Wolfgang wrote:

>
> Well, as I've not yet encoutered [sic] a hundred emergencies I'm willing to bow to
> your experience.

Thanks.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[eric paul zamora]

thanks again everyone. anybody have a good salsa recipe? the food, not the
dance.

eric
fresno, ca.



> From: rw >
> Organization: Newshosting.com - Highest quality at a great price!
> www.newshosting.com
> Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:44:28 -0700
> Subject: Re: suggestions for a FF backpack
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, as I've not yet encoutered [sic] a hundred emergencies I'm willing to
>> bow to
>> your experience.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Cut "to the chase" for my email address.
>

[Bob Patton]

"eric paul zamora" > wrote in message
...
>
//snip//>
> here's what i'm hashing over. a new tent. since i like soloing, i'm
thinking
> of a very light one person thing, like the MSR offerings. very small
packed
> down, and has the option of leaving the ground cloth at home for overhead
> and side covering thereby reducing pack size/weight considerably. this
would
> help with the constant barrage of mosquitos i have encountered up there in
> the past.
>

Take a look here: http://www.orgear.com/
Click on "shelter system" on the left side of the screen.

You might want to go to an outdoors store near you and see if they will rent
a bivy sack. I think REI still does that. Bivy sacks are a different
experience, and I wouldn't advise buying one unless you've tried it first.
Bob

[Bob Patton]

"rw" > wrote in message
m...
>
> Because it takes about an ounce of weight. It's called insurance, in
> case you get into one of those one-in-hundred emergencies. I'm not
> willing to carry a multi-pound tent up and down Western US mountains in
> the summer for a one-in-a-hundred chance, but maybe that's just me. The
> worst I'll get into is a miserable night around a fire, and the worst
> that will make for is a good camp story.
>

Although I carry some kitchen matches in a water-proof container, I would
hypothesize that building a fire is NOT a good idea (except maybe for smoke
signals) and that one is better off with a small modern stove and fuel. A
fire will keep you (or at least one side of you!) warm for a while, but the
energy expended in building and maintaining the fire may add to the danger
of hypothermia.
Bob

[Bob Patton]

"-- Rob" > wrote in message
...
> >(1) they're heavy, (2) they
> >don't provide adequate ankle protection, and (3) you really do need to
keep
>
> not too argue the point too much, but did want to mention the availability
of
> stocking foot hippers which eliminate (1) and (2) as potential blockers.
> -- so much fishing, so little time --
> --please remuv the 'NOWAY2it' from my email addy to email me--

Good point. I find that I frequently roll my waders down to waist level,
which pretty much makes them the same as hippers. But I still like the
option of wading deeper. Besides, I'm short!
Bob

[Wolfgang]

"Bob Patton" <rwpmailatcharterdotnet> wrote in message
...
> "Willi" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Climate varies greatly across the Country. Most of the West is very arid
> > and there is little rain in the Summer. We get long stretches of days
> > with no precipitation. I do carry a light tarp with me just in case.
> >
> > For me, a tent is important for protection from bugs. I got bitten so
> > badly by mosquitoes on one canoing trip in Ontario, that I got sick and
I
> > was in a tent at the time.
> >
>
> I can imagine. I've never been anywhere with the mosquito problem you
> mention. But I've been caught in rainstorms in New Mexico and in Montana,
> and it just seems like it's asking for trouble to head into the wilderness
> on a multi-day trip without the option of minimal protection from the
> elements. Bivy sacks can be claustrophobic, but at least they protect you
> from water (or snow) and bugs. I grew up with canvas tents, and my first
> real wilderness trek almost forty years ago was two weeks in the Rockies
> carrying a canvas pup pent, along with tent stakes and guy ropes. So I
guess
> the weight of modern materials is relative.
> Bob

I believe I may have mentioned here, at some time in the past, that I once
barely survived snow, hail, sleet, torrential rain, high winds, lightning,
flash flooding, and rock slides......all in one night, while on a solo
backpacking trip. I had a tarp. It was worse than useless. A bivvy sack
would have been little better. A really good tent (such as I have now)
would have made a world of difference.

Wolfgang
oh, and did i mention that this was in the southern arizona desert? one in
a hundred?

[Bob Patton]

"eric paul zamora" > wrote in message
...
>
> thanks again everyone. anybody have a good salsa recipe? the food, not the
> dance.
>

Jeez. Do you enjoy starting fights??? :-)
Bob

[Bob Patton]

//snip//>
> I believe I may have mentioned here, at some time in the past, that I once
> barely survived snow, hail, sleet, torrential rain, high winds, lightning,
> flash flooding, and rock slides......all in one night, while on a solo
> backpacking trip. I had a tarp. It was worse than useless. A bivvy sack
> would have been little better. A really good tent (such as I have now)
> would have made a world of difference.
>
> Wolfgang
> oh, and did i mention that this was in the southern arizona desert? one
in
> a hundred?
>
I knew you lived a life of luxury! :-)
Tents are great. They are big enough to sit or stand in, and you can put
your boots on without getting wet. And if you have to spend all day in the
rain you can play cards in a tent a lot easier than you can in a bivy sack.
Bob

[Wolfgang]

"Bob Patton" <rwpmailatcharterdotnet> wrote in message
...


> I knew you lived a life of luxury! :-).....

Ya should'a been there. Not a Power Bar to be seen from one horizon to the
other! :)

Wolfgang

[Kevin Vang]

In article >,
says...
>
> anybody have a good salsa recipe?


Sho' 'nuff. This is my favorite recipe. It's a little
fussy to make, but worth it.

Cut 1 pound of Roma tomatoes into halves, salt and pepper,
and then blacken them on a grill or under the roaster in
your oven.

While the tomatoes are roasting, coarsely chop a large
onion. Saute the onions and about a half a dozen cloves
of garlic, crushed, in a tablespoon of olive oil until
the onions start to brown around the edges.

By now the tomatoes should be done. Get out your food
processor or blender. Add a quarter cup of olive oil,
an eighth of a cup of red wine vinegar, juice from two
limes, a tablespoon each of sugar, kosher salt, freshly
cracked black pepper, and half of the tomatoes and half
of the onions to the processor, and beat them to a paste.

Now, add the rest of the tomatoes and onions, a handful
of fresh cilantro and/or parsley if you got it, and canned
chipotle chili peppers in adobo sauce to taste (I like
about 6 of them, but YMMV.) Pulse the food processor
just long enough to coarsely chop the tomatoes and such,
but not grind them to a paste.

Taste it, adjust seasonings or heat level if necessary.
You're done (finally!)

Kevin
(recipe shamelessly stolen from "The Great Salsa Book,"
by Mark Miller.)

[Wolfgang]

"Bob Patton" <rwpmailatcharterdotnet> wrote in message
...
> "eric paul zamora" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > thanks again everyone. anybody have a good salsa recipe? the food, not
the
> > dance.
> >
>
> Jeez. Do you enjoy starting fights??? :-)
> Bob

Oh, well, since you put it THAT way. :)

"Salsa" simply means "sauce". Generally though, when we gringos use the
word we are referring to the kind of stuff that's put out in a bowl to dip
chips in. Even this leaves one with a bewildering array of "standards",
any one of which comes in a huge variety of one and only "classic" recipes.
The **** that's lined up on supermarket shelves gives a fair idea of the
extremes to which people are willing to go in abusing the label.

Working on the assumption that anyone asking for a salsa recipe is probably
looking for something quick and easy to toss out at the last minute........

Pico de Gallo:
Fresh ripe tomatoes....a quantity equal to roughly half the desired
volume....let's say four, medium, for a couple of bags of chips worth,
chopped
tomatillos in equal volume, chopped
4-8 scallions (aka green onions, aka spring onions), thinly sliced into
rings
lots of cilantro....1/2 to 1 cup, coarsely chopped
salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste

Mix ingredients in a bowl. Serve with chips of choice.

Infinite variations are possible. Mild green chilies add flavor without
heat. Other chilies can jazz it up. Lime juice adds piquance. Sweet corn
or black beans at body, color, and distinctive flavors. Experiment with
spices and herbs. Garlic goes well in just about anything.

Salsa verde:

Finely chopped tomatillos.
salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste.

Put in bowl and serve raw or heat for a few minutes until the tomatillos
begin to liquefy. Serve hot or cold. Any of the ingredients list above in
the Pico de Gallo recipe can be added, but be careful or you will end up
with Pico de Gallo. :)

A Google search will turn up thousand of quick and easy recipes. If you're
an inexperienced cook, start with fast, easy, limited ingredients, and
FRESH. If you know you're way around the kitchen......well, you know what
to do.

Wolfgang

[Frank Reid]

>The Sierra may be one of the most
> "user friendly" mountain ranges on earth ...simply a great place to hike.

"This ironic note was found highlighted in one of the journals of the group.
We'll continue to watch this story, and update you as more info comes in.
This is your Channel Seven roving reporter, Les Clue, coming to you live
from the now, renamed Donner Pass. And back to our studios."

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

[rw]

Wolfgang wrote:
>
> I believe I may have mentioned here, at some time in the past, that I once
> barely survived snow, hail, sleet, torrential rain, high winds, lightning,
> flash flooding, and rock slides......all in one night, while on a solo
> backpacking trip.

Better luck next time.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Jonathan Cook]

"Bob Patton" <rwpmailatcharterdotnet> wrote in message >...
> "rw" > wrote in message
> m...
> > backpacking tent,
> > pound for pound, a most dispensable piece of gear.
>
> You don't have to have a tent - but you do have to stay dry. And it's great
> to be able to see the stars. That's why I like my bivy sack. It weighs less
> than two pounds,

For me the tent/no-tent is a meaningless argument _in_general_, it all
boils down to specifics -- knowing the expected climate in the locale
and season that you're hiking in. Our springs down here are very dry
so when I go in the evening before the first day of turkey season, I
sleep under the stars (here I agree with everyone else -- it's the best
way to sleep outside), but once the monsoons start in July I wouldn't
go in without a tent. Most mountain areas get regular rain, and some
places like the Pecos Wilderness get _extremely_ heavy summer rains,
often at night.

Y'all know I don't spend much on FF gear, and camping is no different. A
few years ago I found a nice little 1.5-man Coleman tent at Walmart that is
about 1.5lbs, as light as the bivy sacks I've seen. Yeah it's not the best
and a great storm would probably collapse it, but I've spent several wet
nights in a row in it, and have done just fine.

Jon.

[eric paul zamora]

oops. i guess my attempt to head off any serious discourse over outdoor
philosophies wasn't the best, and probably a bit premature. salsa can be a
serious contender, sorta like the old canon vs nikon/mac vs pc wars... which
i don't mean to start here either.

bivy sacks are an interesting idea but at just over 200 lbs and over 6 feet
high, i do like room over my head at night.

see http://www.msrcorp.com/tents/ultralight.asp for my idea.

anyway, felt boots and wet wading is always an option (light weight waist
highs are an option), but the sierra can be challenging and unless you have
experience, one must be fully prepared at all times at elevations over 9,000
feet. the tent can always be left in the car or brought along and shared
with all other gear with another, preferably female in my case. not that
there's anything wrong with alternatives... ;-)

thanks again.

37, and working on the wisdom aspect,

eric
fresno, ca.



> From: "Bob Patton" <rwpmailatcharterdotnet>
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:13:28 -0600
> Subject: Re: suggestions for a FF backpack
>
> "eric paul zamora" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> thanks again everyone. anybody have a good salsa recipe? the food, not the
>> dance.
>>
>
> Jeez. Do you enjoy starting fights??? :-)
> Bob
>
>

[Larry L]

"Jonathan Cook" > wrote
>
> For me the tent/no-tent is a meaningless argument _in_general_, it all
> boils down to specifics -- knowing the expected climate in the locale
> and season that you're hiking in.

Exactly.

I've been trapped with two others in a tent for 30+ hours in conditions that
bent the poles of that Sierra Designs Glacier model shelter ( state of the
art at the time, actually used on K2 and such). White out conditions,
incredible winds, at around 12,500 feet, on Mt Shasta in April.

I've also climbed many Sierra Nevada peaks to over 13,000 feet in the
summer, mid June to early Sept, carrying only a plastic tarp and poncho for
protection against the occasional afternoon thunderstorm as shelter. Often
I traveled alone for non-technical climbs.

I've only done limited real winter backcountry travel, mainly because I
could never x-country ski worth a damn ( I bought some and tried a few
times ), but what I have done included a full array of "insurance"
equipment, avalance cords ( pre-beacon days) etc, and a high end tent such
as above, with snow tunnel and 'cook hole" designed for the conditions that
might actually occur. And I would never travel alone at such times.

It's prudent to be prepared to survive the worse that might honestly be
encountered. In the area of Yosemite ( what started this thread) in summer,
that does include, of course, the possiblity of snow, hail, lightning and
high winds for a few hours. But, it ain't going to happen often, in a
lifetime of summer hiking. Now, before we jump on a "once is enough"
bandwagon, note that, with adequate mental preparations, you can survive
these conditions for a few hours with a tarp ( "tube tent" ) and poncho ( at
current state of the art, a bivi bag, makes great sense in weight/protection
ratio) ...I've done so. No, you will not enjoy the experience, but you
will survive to post at Roff, again.

We would not have survived the conditions on Shasta, lightly equipped ....
that's why we weren't ...doh! But, crippling every trip with a ton of
extra weight in "insurance" will, imho, cost more, in enjoyment, over time,
than suffering through the one night of wet, cold and scared.

Clearly, in my case, whether to go in a group, carrying plentiful supplies,
or alone, with minimal .... was a decision always made by the same
person,.... me, ....using the same guidelines for acceptable risk.

BTW, the closest I feel I've ever come to dying at the hands of the elements
was about 1/2 mile from homes, furnaces and family ... near Severna Park,
Md. ..... hunting ducks I was lucky enough to be found and rescued when
well past the "mental shutdown" stage of hypothermia.

Anyone that doesn't respect Nature is in great danger hiking, hunting,
fishing, or driving a cool SUV in Winter over I-80 ( donner summit :-) ,
actually, anywhere, anytime, ....... but respect and fear ... are two
different words

[Lazarus Cooke]

In article
>, Larry L
> wrote:

> Anyone that doesn't respect Nature is in great danger hiking, hunting,
> fishing, or driving a cool SUV in Winter over I-80 ( donner summit :-) ,
> actually, anywhere, anytime, ....... but respect and fear ... are two
> different words

I agree that bad things happen, and I've been in difficult conditions
too.

But this guy was talking about a two-day trip for fishing. He was going
to carry more than I'd carry across the Alps, and I've crossed the
Hindu Kush with less, too ( but I can't remember exactly what I had).

I stand by what I said.

Bivvy bag, stuff to make fire, and to cut wood; stuff to carry water.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[Larry L]

"Lazarus Cooke" > wrote

>
> I stand by what I said.
>
> Bivvy bag, stuff to make fire, and to cut wood; stuff to carry water.
>


Well, actually, I was agreeing with your position, but I guess I didn't say
it well.

The limitations of sound byte typing and sound byte reading, make this a
poor media for real communication ..... I think it may have a lot to do
with the bytes in the spaces between the actual lines of text. <g>

[Lazarus Cooke]

In article
>, Larry L
> wrote:

> "Lazarus Cooke" > wrote
>
> >
> > I stand by what I said.
> >
> > Bivvy bag, stuff to make fire, and to cut wood; stuff to carry water.
> >
>
>
> Well, actually, I was agreeing with your position, but I guess I didn't say
> it well.
>
> The limitations of sound byte typing and sound byte reading, make this a
> poor media for real communication ..... I think it may have a lot to do
> with the bytes in the spaces between the actual lines of text. <g>
>
>
Sorry Larry - I agreed with everything you said. It's just this damn
business of quoting somebody else.

I agreed in particular with:

>
> BTW, the closest I feel I've ever come to dying at the hands of the
> elements
> was about 1/2 mile from homes, furnaces and family ... near Severna
> Park,
> Md. ..... hunting ducks I was lucky enough to be found and rescued
> when
> well past the "mental shutdown" stage of hypothermia.
>
> Anyone that doesn't respect Nature is in great danger hiking, hunting,
> fishing, or driving a cool SUV in Winter over I-80 ( donner summit :-) ,
> actually, anywhere, anytime, ....... but respect and fear ... are two
> different words

The two big problems now are

a) stupid lack of preparedness

and (more commonly)

b) excessive fear.

If you've been sensible and have thought of extreme conditions you'll
almost certainly get by ( particularly if you're over twenty-five) no
matter what happens.

People, particularly in poor areas, are very generous.

There are far too many people wandering around with ludicrous fears of
unlikely dangerous situations.

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[George Cleveland]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:07:26 -0700, Willi > wrote:

>
>
>rw wrote:
>
>> Willi wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> When I'm doing an overnighter in the Summer to a local small stream, I
>>> don't pack waders or a tent. IMO, sleeping out under the stars is great
>>> if there aren't alot of bugs.
>>
>>
>> It's funny how people think they just HAVE to have a tent, like it's
>> going to protect them from grizzlies or something. Unless you're making
>> an assault on Annapurna or something similar, the backpacking tent,
>> pound for pound, a most dispensable piece of gear.
>>
>
>
>Unless there are mosquitoes!
>
>When I was young and stupid, I used to Winter camp. Even then we didn't
>use a tent. Instead made a snow cave. They were surprisingly warm (well
>maybe relatively). When you hike in on skis or snowshoes you DEFINITELY
>want to go as light as possible.
>
>Willi

>
>
>
Unless you use a sled instead of a backpack.

http://www.boundarywaterscatalog.com/browse.cfm/4,1690.html

There lots of models out there. Have never used them for camping but have
pulled 70 lbs of kids around in one and you could barely feel any drag.

g.c.

[Larry L]

"Lazarus Cooke" > wrote

> a) stupid lack of preparedness
>
> and (more commonly)
>
> b) excessive fear.
>

Yes, again we agree. Most of the greatest pleasures in my life have
resulted from time spent with Nature, trying to enjoy her, on her terms.

The two greatest obstacles I've found in myself ( I assume I'm not that far
from 'average') to maximising that pleasure are lack of respect for Her,
and fear of Her.

I hate to see other, younger, people limit their own pleasure outdoors
through fear or endanger themselves through vanity ... been both places,
done both things. Moderation really is tough to beat, day in, day out <G>

[Bob Patton]

"eric paul zamora" > wrote in message
...
>
> oops. i guess my attempt to head off any serious discourse over outdoor
> philosophies wasn't the best, and probably a bit premature. salsa can be a
> serious contender, sorta like the old canon vs nikon/mac vs pc wars...
which
> i don't mean to start here either.
>
//snip//

It's really neat that a guy from Fresno named Zamora asks a group of people
with last names like Siebenich, Vang, Cook, Cleveland, Barnard, Reid, Cooke,
Larry L., Pavlov, and Patton for their best salsa recipes . . . Where else
but ROFF? :-)

I would ask for good recipes for collard greens, but don't want to start an
argument over the relative merits of collards, mustard, and turnip. So I
won't.

Bob

[eric paul zamora]

HEY! i've been pleasantly surprised with recipes from gringos... not often,
true, but i try not to discount someone simply by their last name.... (maybe
the way they talk or smell, sure!;-)

by the way, i don't make fires any more (unless i'm on a beach somewhere and
drunk). campfires are quaint and romantic (not hearts and roses, but
idealistically), but not practical and too much effort. ever try to boil
water at high elevations? takes a LOOOOONG time and to use up even dead wood
to fuel that would be impractical and i think, against the law in subalpine
levels, let alone national parks.

now, seriously, anybody fishing the upper/lower kings, kern, kaweah, tule or
merced near el portal in central california? all year-round fisheries and
i've got saturday off this weekend.

eric PAUL zamorrrrrrrrrrra
fresno, ca.





> From: "Bob Patton" <rwpmailatcharterdotnet>
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:23:08 -0600
> Subject: Re: suggestions for a FF backpack
>
> "eric paul zamora" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> oops. i guess my attempt to head off any serious discourse over outdoor
>> philosophies wasn't the best, and probably a bit premature. salsa can be a
>> serious contender, sorta like the old canon vs nikon/mac vs pc wars...
> which
>> i don't mean to start here either.
>>
> //snip//
>
> It's really neat that a guy from Fresno named Zamora asks a group of people
> with last names like Siebenich, Vang, Cook, Cleveland, Barnard, Reid, Cooke,
> Larry L., Pavlov, and Patton for their best salsa recipes . . . Where else
> but ROFF? :-)
>
> I would ask for good recipes for collard greens, but don't want to start an
> argument over the relative merits of collards, mustard, and turnip. So I
> won't.
>
> Bob
>
>

[Frank Reid]

> HEY! i've been pleasantly surprised with recipes from gringos... not
often,
> true, but i try not to discount someone simply by their last name....
(maybe
> the way they talk or smell, sure!;-)

I was de-gringoized at birth. Grew up in Chino.

> now, seriously, anybody fishing the upper/lower kings, kern, kaweah, tule
or
> merced near el portal in central california? all year-round fisheries and
> i've got saturday off this weekend.

Got a partner in Fullerton who hits the kern all the time. Will check with
him on the conditions.

> eric PAUL zamorrrrrrrrrrra

Man, can he roll those R's!
--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

[rw]

eric paul zamora wrote:
>
> by the way, i don't make fires any more (unless i'm on a beach somewhere and
> drunk). campfires are quaint and romantic (not hearts and roses, but
> idealistically), but not practical and too much effort. ever try to boil
> water at high elevations? takes a LOOOOONG time and to use up even dead wood
> to fuel that would be impractical and i think, against the law in subalpine
> levels, let alone national parks.

Making a campfire is one of the most interesting, and sometimes
challenging, parts of camping. If it's legal, I'll always make a
campfire. What the hell else is there to do at night? :-)

Cooking on a campfire is not only fun -- it's economical. Instead of
carrying a stove and fuel, a mere grate is enough. There goes a couple
of pounds of luggage. If your idea of efficiency is boiling water in the
shortest period of time, then it's not your cup of tea, so to speak.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Tim J.]

"Frank Reid" wrote...
> > HEY! i've been pleasantly surprised with recipes from gringos... not
> often,
> > true, but i try not to discount someone simply by their last name....
> (maybe
> > the way they talk or smell, sure!;-)
>
> I was de-gringoized at birth. Grew up in Chino.

Sí, yo también. Los lobos me crié en Vista California. El salsa es muy bueno.

Deseo solamente que mi portugués era tan bueno como mi español.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

[Rusty Hook]

Bob Patton wrote:
> Although I carry some kitchen matches in a water-proof container, I would
> hypothesize that building a fire is NOT a good idea (except maybe for
smoke
> signals) and that one is better off with a small modern stove and fuel. A
> fire will keep you (or at least one side of you!) warm for a while, but
the
> energy expended in building and maintaining the fire may add to the danger
> of hypothermia.

If you're cold, wet, and in the middle of nowhere,
the ability to build a fire will keep you alive.
Stoves are fine for boiling water, but it takes a lot
more heat than that to get a person warm and dry.

--
Rusty Hook
Laramie, Wyoming

[Frank Reid]

> Sí, yo también. Los lobos me crié en Vista California. El salsa es muy
bueno.
>
> Deseo solamente que mi portugués era tan bueno como mi español.

Man, I can hardly recognize Portugese any more, much less speak it. My
Spanish is down to just a few words.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

[Tim J.]

"Frank Reid" <moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf> wrote in message
...
> > Sí, yo también. Los lobos me crié en Vista California. El salsa es muy
> bueno.
> >
> > Deseo solamente que mi portugués era tan bueno como mi español.
>
> Man, I can hardly recognize Portugese any more, much less speak it. My
> Spanish is down to just a few words.

Mine, too. God bless computer translators.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

[Jonathan Cook]

rw > wrote in message >...

> Cooking on a campfire is not only fun -- it's economical. Instead of
> carrying a stove and fuel, a mere grate is enough. There goes a couple

When by myself, I don't think I've ever made a campfire. I like to
enjoy the silence and the "blending in", so to speak. With others,
of course, there's a whole social aspect, and campfires are great.

I'm very minimalist, and "frugal". I only carry one of those pocket
fuel-tablet stoves, 2 tablets/day, and one small aluminum pot. I
don't bring any food that requires anything more than boiling water.
instant oatmeal packets for breakfast, "coffee singles" (like tea bags),
instant soups otherwise, occasionally something else like instant
mashed potatoes, etc. Instant bean soups are really good (I used to
be able to get a good black bean soup but haven't seen it at the
local stores recently), lots of nutrition. I usually throw in a
couple of power bars and some beef jerky. There's no sense buying
overpriced "camping" dried food when your local supermarket has a
great variety anyways. I generally don't eat much and backpacking
is a good way to lose a couple of the extra pounds we all have
anyways.

I used iodine tablets for a long time, but my wife recently bought
me a water filter for a birthday. It's great and all, but honestly
it's just another thing to carry.

If you google on ultralight backpacking or similar phrases, you can
find some real serious devotees, and some good recipes for lightweight
high-energy trail "gruel" that obviates the need for any stove. If
you read old-time accounts (e.g., John Muir's _My First Summer in
the Sierra_) it's amazing how little they took into the mountains.
Someday I'd like to try it.

Jon.

In article >,
says...
>
> If you're cold, wet, and in the middle of nowhere,
> the ability to build a fire will keep you alive.
> Stoves are fine for boiling water, but it takes a lot
> more heat than that to get a person warm and dry.

Of course starting a "real" fire using a stove is incredibly
easy and fast. In an emergency situation, dumping a little
"boy scout juice" on will get you warm quick. Forget messing with
tinder, bring on the logs.

Been there, done that.
- Ken

[Lazarus Cooke]

In article >, Jonathan
Cook > wrote:

> > Cooking on a campfire is not only fun -- it's economical. Instead of
> > carrying a stove and fuel, a mere grate is enough. There goes a couple
>
> When by myself, I don't think I've ever made a campfire. I like to
> enjoy the silence and the "blending in", so to speak. With others,
> of course, there's a whole social aspect, and campfires are great.

Must say I like a fire myself - particularly at times of year when the
nights are long. Can get boring otherwise in the dark. That's why I
carry firelighters. A few broken bits can be a great help. Also
economizes on camping gas. (also I tend to get places by flying, and
you can't carry gas on planes).

I've tried to find a reference to the wonderful Orvis saw I use, but
they no longer seem to do it. Shame.

While we're on the subject, there's an incredible gadget - too heavy
for backpacking, really, though I occasioanally use on e - that's used
by mainly by fly fishermen on the Irish lakes. YOu keep one of these in
the boat, or on an island in the lake. Put a few sticks or bits of
heather in the middle, and water sits in a skin around the outside. The
fuel flares up the central chimney, and boils the water very quickly.
You are then left with burning coals on which you can fry or grill
something - fish, if you're lucky.

http://www.millenniumsupplies.net/howitworks.asp

It's technically a very elegant device, and it's great fun.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[Willi]

Jonathan Cook wrote:

>
> I'm very minimalist, and "frugal". I only carry one of those pocket
> fuel-tablet stoves, 2 tablets/day, and one small aluminum pot. I
> don't bring any food that requires anything more than boiling water.
> instant oatmeal packets for breakfast, "coffee singles" (like tea bags),

I was glad to find those. I LOVE my coffee and instant was always barely
tolerated. Those coffee singles make a decent cup of coffee although I
usually use two per mug.

Willi

[-- Rob]

>Those coffee singles make a decent cup of coffee although I
>usually use two per mug.
>
>Willi


I heartily agree!!

This whole discussion seems similar to someone stating that you can ONLY fly
fish with a 7' 3wt. Backpacking is so variable and what one person deems
"light" is unbearable for someone else and vice versa. Bugs, no bugs, tent, no
tent, full gourmet meal, vs. dry sausage. It doesn't matter. Just decide what
you need and try it. If it's too much, don't take so much the next time. Always
bring essentials for the terrain your covering and/or have a bailout plan that
will work.

Ah ROFF. War zone indeed :)

-- Rob

[Warren]

wrote...
> (recipe shamelessly stolen from "The Great Salsa Book,"
> by Mark Miller.)

Good ol' page 10. ;-)

I'm going to make chile de =E1rbol salsa (page 20) this weekend. :-)
--=20
Warren=20
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