Fishing Scotland

[Michael McCaugherty]

G'day,

There is the possibility that I may be in Scotland this May. Would there be
any advice out there about the possibility of wetting a line in the land of
Robbie Burns?

I am planning to give fly fishing a try this summer. Would taking an
inaugural fly fishing expedition in the highlands be asking too much?

Michael

[Sam Salmon]

All it takes in money-lots of it.





On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:36:55 GMT, "Michael McCaugherty"
> wrote:

>G'day,
>
>There is the possibility that I may be in Scotland this May. Would there be
>any advice out there about the possibility of wetting a line in the land of
>Robbie Burns?
>
>I am planning to give fly fishing a try this summer. Would taking an
>inaugural fly fishing expedition in the highlands be asking too much?
>
>Michael
>

[pmfpa]

I was in Scotland last December and found a nice little guide, Fishing
Scotland. Sold for 5.50 pounds and is available at
http://www.fishing-scotland.co.uk/rosguide.htm. You might want to get that.
I was happy to see that there are many lochs and rivers where a day of
fishing could be taken for less than 10 pounds, but you certainly need to
get the right permits. Everything you may need is in the guide.

"Michael McCaugherty" > wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
> G'day,
>
> There is the possibility that I may be in Scotland this May. Would there
be
> any advice out there about the possibility of wetting a line in the land
of
> Robbie Burns?
>
> I am planning to give fly fishing a try this summer. Would taking an
> inaugural fly fishing expedition in the highlands be asking too much?
>
> Michael
>
>

[Jeff Miller]

i take it from your note that it isn't permitted to simply buy a fishing
license and then go exploring for a stream where one can fish as desired
without a guide or payment for the privilege?

jeff

pmfpa wrote:

>
> http://www.fishing-scotland.co.uk/rosguide.htm. You might want to get that.
> I was happy to see that there are many lochs and rivers where a day of
> fishing could be taken for less than 10 pounds, but you certainly need to
> get the right permits. Everything you may need is in the guide.
>

[riverman]

"Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
news:q09Qb.6743$_H5.5434@lakeread06...
> i take it from your note that it isn't permitted to simply buy a fishing
> license and then go exploring for a stream where one can fish as desired
> without a guide or payment for the privilege?
>
>
Well, sure you can. Just don't get caught.

I was astounded last summer in Devon and Cornwall to discover that all the
water that had fish (except the sal****er) was privately owned and/or
managed by clubs. Sometimes you needed a different license to stand on the
far bank (I assume that it also meant you could only wade halfway across).
In addition, it was often difficult to locate the proper person for
obtaining a license, and often they weren't available to nonmembers anyway.
I came away with a much more full understanding of the causes of the
Revolutionary War, and a deeper appreciation of the result.

--riverman

[Sandy]

Michael McCaugherty wrote:
> G'day,
>
> There is the possibility that I may be in Scotland this May. Would
> there be any advice out there about the possibility of wetting a line
> in the land of Robbie Burns?
>
> I am planning to give fly fishing a try this summer. Would taking an
> inaugural fly fishing expedition in the highlands be asking too much?
>
> Michael

Where do I start!!

When in May and where are you staying?

Try here for places to fish.

http://www.where-to-fish.com/content/2d.html

Click on the link below for the legal bit.

http://www.flyfish-scotland.com/scotslaw.htm

Now that we have got that out of the way it really isn't that difficult to
find free/cheap fishing as long as you know where to go. You mentioned the
highlands, I have a weeks camping/fishing trip to the highlands every year
in May, and it has never cost more than £100/$180us and that includes
travel.

I have fished Attadale, great if you don't mind the 13 mile walk to most of
the lochs, which is free, Lochinver, £30 for a weeks fishing on approx. 150
lochs, Kilmelford, used to be £25 for the weeks fishing but may be higher
now, which has approx 20 lochs.

If you want to read more of these places go to my website and click on the
links in the navigation bar.

If you can supply me with a bit more information I may be able to put
something together for you, can't promise though :)


--
Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:-
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667
#Rabble Channel Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/rabbled
ICQ : 41266150

[Lazarus Cooke]

In article >, riverman
> wrote:

> "Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
> news:q09Qb.6743$_H5.5434@lakeread06...
> > i take it from your note that it isn't permitted to simply buy a fishing
> > license and then go exploring for a stream where one can fish as desired
> > without a guide or payment for the privilege?
> >
> >
> Well, sure you can. Just don't get caught.
>
> I was astounded last summer in Devon and Cornwall to discover that all the
> water that had fish (except the sal****er) was privately owned and/or
> managed by clubs. Sometimes you needed a different license to stand on the
> far bank (I assume that it also meant you could only wade halfway across).
> In addition, it was often difficult to locate the proper person for
> obtaining a license, and often they weren't available to nonmembers anyway.
> I came away with a much more full understanding of the causes of the
> Revolutionary War, and a deeper appreciation of the result.

Sorry we didn't meet then, riverman.

the thing is that there are an awful lot of people crammed into one
tiny island - I think it's about a third of the population of the US.

Some clubs, such as the Salisbury and District, which controls some of
the finest spring creek ('chalk stream') waters, cost only $150 a year.
If it was free-for-all, I don't think there would be any fish left in
England.

And I can tell you that even after our successful (Irish) revolutionary
war, the situation in the republic, in rivers at least, is the same.
Only four million people, there - half the population 150 years ago,
too.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[Lazarus Cooke]

In article <q09Qb.6743$_H5.5434@lakeread06>, Jeff Miller
> wrote:

> i take it from your note that it isn't permitted to simply buy a fishing
> license and then go exploring for a stream where one can fish as desired
> without a guide or payment for the privilege?

What's more in a lot of parts of scotland fishing on a sunday is
illegal. The scots are a god-fearing bunch.

:L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[Willi]

riverman wrote:

> In addition, it was often difficult to locate the proper person for
> obtaining a license, and often they weren't available to nonmembers anyway.
> I came away with a much more full understanding of the causes of the
> Revolutionary War, and a deeper appreciation of the result.


As Americans, it is easy for us to take our public lands for granted.
Privitizing them is NOT a good choice.

Willi

[pmfpa]

That is very true. In the US, aside from many questions about stream access
and trespassing, once you can get into the stream the state owns the fish
and can give you a license to take them. My understanding is that in the
UK, the land and the fish are private. As noted below, everywhere you fish
requires a permit. While this may seem quite a hassle, there are many
instances where you can buy a week long permit for a river of some size for
not too much money.

"Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
news:q09Qb.6743$_H5.5434@lakeread06...
> i take it from your note that it isn't permitted to simply buy a fishing
> license and then go exploring for a stream where one can fish as desired
> without a guide or payment for the privilege?
>
> jeff
>
> pmfpa wrote:
>
> >
> > http://www.fishing-scotland.co.uk/rosguide.htm. You might want to get
that.
> > I was happy to see that there are many lochs and rivers where a day of
> > fishing could be taken for less than 10 pounds, but you certainly need
to
> > get the right permits. Everything you may need is in the guide.
> >
>

[Hooked]

"Lazarus Cooke" > wrote in message
om...
>
> What's more in a lot of parts of scotland fishing on a sunday is
> illegal. The scots are a god-fearing bunch.
>


Sounds like what some of the religious fanatics here in the States want to
do.

Impose their self centered ideas on everyone's rights.

Damn sure would be nice if they went fishing more often instead of sitting
around complaining about the rest of us fishing!!

[Lazarus Cooke]

In article . net>,
pmfpa > wrote:

> That is very true. In the US, aside from many questions about stream access
> and trespassing, once you can get into the stream the state owns the fish
> and can give you a license to take them.

Sounds like pinko liberal communism to me.

> My understanding is that in the
> UK, the land and the fish are private.

Yessir. The Uk's a land of free enterprise and opportunity for all.

At least the US appoints its head of state in the same way as the Brits
do, and appoints the vastly wealthy son of a previous head of state,
rather than the socialist notion of taking someone who's won the most
votes at an election.

Neither Charles nor George W may be very bright, but who cares?

(And incidentally Charles, who as well as being Prince of Wales is also
Duke of Cornwall, charges very reasonable rates for his Duchy of
Cornwall waters, which include wonderful fishing on Dartmoor -- Hound
of the Baskervilles territory. )

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[Wolfgang]

"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
> "Lazarus Cooke" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > What's more in a lot of parts of scotland fishing on a sunday is
> > illegal. The scots are a god-fearing bunch.
> >
>
>
> Sounds like what some of the religious fanatics here in the States want to
> do.
>
> Impose their self centered ideas on everyone's rights.

Actually, it sounds more like the situation that, until recent decades, held
sway here in the U.S. for a couple of centuries. When I was a boy, growing
up in what was then a small city of fifty thousand or so back in the
fifties, Sunday, as a "day of rest", was a long standing tradition accepted
by virtually everyone. True, "rest" was already interpreted somewhat
differently than it had been in the heyday of religion's grip on secular
life, and a distinct aroma of the change to come was already in the air, but
Sunday was still markedly different from the Monday through Friday work
week, and even from Saturday, the other weekend day. Saturday was the day
to catch up on the personal business that languished through the week. In
rural areas it was the day to go into town to shop. On Sunday there was no
place to shop. In my home town there was typically one drug store open....a
relatively new concession to the fiction that it was necessary for the
maintenance of public health....but that was about it, and it was only
allowed to stay open for a few hours in the middle of the day. Many of the
activities we take for granted....for RIGHTS....were, if not officially
proscribed, then at least heavily frowned upon. And, of course, a lot of
things actually were banned. Prohibitions against fishing or hunting (among
other things) on Sunday do not, for the most part, stem from any actions on
the part of the new religious right, but rather from a hoary religious
mainstream. There are places in the U.S. where you may not legally hunt (or
fish?) on Sundays, but these are not radical new policies.

Personally, and as anyone who knows me will attest, I don't take well to
being dictated to. I guess I never quite outgrew the adolescent male
fascination with whatever is prohibited. But, at the same time, I'm
susceptible to a degree of the same nostalgia for an undoubtedly idealized
past that eventually strikes virtually all of us who live long enough. For
all the many very real faults of an era that, among other things, encouraged
rampant institutional racism, held women in vitrual chattel slavery, and
viewed expressions of individuality as suspect at best, it's still hard to
deny a certain bucolic charm to a past that enforced a periodic break from
an ever more frenetic lifestyle. It is interesting and instructive, I
think, that apart from the weather there is nothing in American life today
that generates more impotent complaints than the pace of modern life. The
irony of this impotence in the face of much vaunted and jealously treasured
personal freedom is, of course, sublime.

As for rights......well, most of the uninformed and specious twaddle spewed
forth about them (which is to say nearly everything) has been masticated and
spit out so many times by so many people of questionable moral and
intellectual hygiene that even looking at it is more than can reasoanbly be
asked of anyone lacking a fascination with excretory functions. Thomas
Jefferson was, by all accounts, an extremely bright individual. His use of
the damnable adjective "inalienable" can hardly be viewed as accidental and
thus, as two centuries of inane nattering clearly demonstrates, his
disingenuousness leaves him with a lot to answer for. Rights come.....and
they go.

> Damn sure would be nice if they went fishing more often instead of sitting
> around complaining about the rest of us fishing!!

Physician, heal thyself.

Wolfgang

[Mike Connor]

"Wolfgang" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
<SNIP>>
> Wolfgang

An excellent analysis. Fits in a lot of places too. Most unfortunately.

TL
MC

[Nogood Boyo]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 at 21:21:19 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly pmfpa wrote:
>My understanding is that in the UK, the land and the fish are private.

Not quite... It's complicated..! And the position is not the same
throughout the UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland). And the
Republic of Ireland is completely different.

In England and Wales the fishing rights in most waters are privately
owned - usually as a result of a grant by the crown to some ******* who
trampled over the land and subdued the natives almost a thousand years
ago [1].

There are exceptions, such as some tidal waters, where there's a public
right to fish. But normally the presumption is that the owner of the
bank owns the fishing rights to the middle line. But fishing rights can
be (and often are) separated from ownership of land. In many areas the
fishing rights have been acquired by clubs for their members. Fishing
is usually available in most areas for a modest fee, but it's necessary
to make enquiries and get permission. It's not a good idea to fish
without seeking permission.

The fish themselves (in running water) belong to no-one. But it's an
offence to fish in private waters.

> As noted below, everywhere you fish requires a permit.

"Permit" is the word usually used to describe the permission obtained
from the owner of the fishing rights. It's different from and
additional to the "rod licence" which everyone has to obtain from the
Environment Agency before fishing anywhere.

> While this may seem quite a hassle, there are many instances where
>you can buy a week long permit for a river of some size for not too
>much money.

Yes. Seek and ye shall find. Google the area and ask in
uk.rec.fishing.game


The legal position in Scotland is explained at
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/?pageID=99


[1] The rights on my local river can be traced back to a grant by King
John in 1203 to one of his Norman cronies. :-(

--
Nogood Boyo

[Hooked]

"Nogood Boyo" > wrote in message
...
>
>(snip)
>
> In England and Wales the fishing rights in most waters are privately
> owned - usually as a result of a grant by the crown to some ******* who
> trampled over the land and subdued the natives almost a thousand years
> ago [1].
>
>(snip)
>
> [1] The rights on my local river can be traced back to a grant by King
> John in 1203 to one of his Norman cronies. :-(
>


Sounds to me like the British Empire needs to suffer defeat from another
Revolution. One by it's own citizens!!

[riverman]

"Wolfgang" > wrote in message
...
>
> Actually, it sounds more like the situation that, until recent decades,
held
> sway here in the U.S. for a couple of centuries.
>
>
(snip)

Damn, you are difficult to read sometimes, but always worth the effort.

--riverman

(at least, when you are in Textbook mode)

[Wolfgang]

"riverman" > wrote in message
...

> Damn, you are difficult to read sometimes,

Hell, if you think that's tough you should try WRITING this **** some time.
:(

> but always worth the effort.

Ah, the minority report! It wouldn't be much trouble to shoot a few holes
in it.......but we are content to leave that as a traditional exercise for
the incoming freshman class.

> --riverman
>
> (at least, when you are in Textbook mode)

We live to instruct. Pedagogy is merely the most easily recognizable of the
instruments in the didactical toolbox.

Wolfgang
who remains unashamed of his occasional flirtation with other more subtle
methods. :)

[Mu Young Lee]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Lazarus Cooke wrote:
>
> And incidentally Charles, who as well as being Prince of Wales is also
> Duke of Cornwall, charges very reasonable rates for his Duchy of
> Cornwall waters, which include wonderful fishing on Dartmoor

<chuckle>

Mu

[smiles]

A good many salmon rivers here in Eastern Canada have privately owned
sections that were accorded to families when Canada was first colonized.

--
http://www.bluezone.best.cd/
"Nogood Boyo" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 at 21:21:19 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly pmfpa wrote:
> >My understanding is that in the UK, the land and the fish are private.
>
> Not quite... It's complicated..! And the position is not the same
> throughout the UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland). And the
> Republic of Ireland is completely different.
>
> In England and Wales the fishing rights in most waters are privately
> owned - usually as a result of a grant by the crown to some ******* who
> trampled over the land and subdued the natives almost a thousand years
> ago [1].
>
> There are exceptions, such as some tidal waters, where there's a public
> right to fish. But normally the presumption is that the owner of the
> bank owns the fishing rights to the middle line. But fishing rights can
> be (and often are) separated from ownership of land. In many areas the
> fishing rights have been acquired by clubs for their members. Fishing
> is usually available in most areas for a modest fee, but it's necessary
> to make enquiries and get permission. It's not a good idea to fish
> without seeking permission.
>
> The fish themselves (in running water) belong to no-one. But it's an
> offence to fish in private waters.
>
> > As noted below, everywhere you fish requires a permit.
>
> "Permit" is the word usually used to describe the permission obtained
> from the owner of the fishing rights. It's different from and
> additional to the "rod licence" which everyone has to obtain from the
> Environment Agency before fishing anywhere.
>
> > While this may seem quite a hassle, there are many instances where
> >you can buy a week long permit for a river of some size for not too
> >much money.
>
> Yes. Seek and ye shall find. Google the area and ask in
> uk.rec.fishing.game
>
>
> The legal position in Scotland is explained at
> http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/?pageID=99
>
>
> [1] The rights on my local river can be traced back to a grant by King
> John in 1203 to one of his Norman cronies. :-(
>
> --
> Nogood Boyo

[Hooked]

"Greg Pavlov" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> A friend of mine owns a house on the Spey,
> but she does not have the right to fish it:
> someone else owns the fishing rights.


I do believe that I would have to get to know my neighbors real good.

Or is this "someone else" some sort of "Duke of Something" with a rod up his
ass?

[Sandy]

Hooked wrote:
> "Greg Pavlov" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> A friend of mine owns a house on the Spey,
>> but she does not have the right to fish it:
>> someone else owns the fishing rights.
>
>
> I do believe that I would have to get to know my neighbors real good.
>
> Or is this "someone else" some sort of "Duke of Something" with a rod
> up his ass?

I think she probably has the right to fish it for trout if she owns the land
down to the bank as it is only the salmon/seatrout fishing that can be sold
seperately from the land.

--
Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:-
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667
#Rabble Channel Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/rabbled
ICQ : 41266150

[Wolfgang]

"Greg Pavlov" > wrote in message
...

> Many of the waters in the US will eventually be
> controlled in a similar manner, tho I would guess
> there will also be a lot of access by lottery.

Maybe. Fly fishing has steadily gained in popularity for the last twenty
years and the trend certainly could continue, but there is no reason to
suppose that it is necessarily so. Consider, for example, the likelihood
that the average age of fly fishers is probably higher than that for many
other outdoor activities. I mean, let's face it, this isn't going to make
anyone's list of x-games. It's not unreasonable to posit that there are a
lot more fly fishers today largely because there are a lot of baby boomers
getting to the age at which waving a stick in the air seems a lot more
appealing that launching themselves through it by one means or another.
Eventually (and not all that long from now), we're going to begin pushing up
daisies at a higher rate than we are currently trampling them on route to a
favorite fishing hole, and there is no guarantee that new recruits will
arrive fast enough to make up for attrition. Then too, fly fishing as it is
practiced in the U.S. today depends pretty heavily on a general level of
affluence that we have come to take for granted for a couple of generations
but which recent evidence suggests may not continue indefinitely.

Wolfgang

[JR]

Wolfgang wrote:
>
> "Greg Pavlov" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Many of the waters in the US will eventually be
> > controlled in a similar manner, tho I would guess
> > there will also be a lot of access by lottery.
>
> Maybe. Fly fishing has steadily gained in popularity for the last twenty
> years and the trend certainly could continue, but there is no reason to
> suppose that it is necessarily so.

There is some evidence the trend has already reversed itself:

http://tinyurl.com/2reol

> Consider, for example, the likelihood
> that the average age of fly fishers is probably higher than that for many
> other outdoor activities.

I believe there are statistics to this effect, but haven't got the time
to do a search.

> ...... It's not unreasonable to posit that there are a
> lot more fly fishers today largely because there are a lot of baby boomers
> getting to the age at which waving a stick in the air seems a lot more
> appealing that launching themselves through it by one means or another.

And will be getting to an age at which strolling on the local golf
course may seem more appealing than searching for, catching and
releasing the 10,000th trout.

JR

[Tim J.]

"Wolfgang" wrote...
> "Greg Pavlov" wrote...
>
> > Many of the waters in the US will eventually be
> > controlled in a similar manner, tho I would guess
> > there will also be a lot of access by lottery.
>
> Maybe. Fly fishing has steadily gained in popularity for the last twenty
> years and the trend certainly could continue, but there is no reason to
> suppose that it is necessarily so. Consider, for example, the likelihood
> that the average age of fly fishers is probably higher than that for many
> other outdoor activities.

Another factor that may possibly stay the masses is that it's been a while since
anyone ran a recruitment campaign by making a movie glorifying the sport.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

[Bill P]

Own it but cannot fish it?! And yet another collective pin in the voodoo
doll of flyfisherpersons... At least us older farts still active and are
not being put off by some ill-mannered newcomer totally dressed to the 9's
in Orvis garb and gear wading right down the middle of the stream as in the
days just after "A river ran through it!" This is the ONE thing about the
downturn that makes it worth while going out again.

Bill in Phx.



"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
> "Greg Pavlov" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > A friend of mine owns a house on the Spey,
> > but she does not have the right to fish it:
> > someone else owns the fishing rights.
>
>
> I do believe that I would have to get to know my neighbors real good.
>
> Or is this "someone else" some sort of "Duke of Something" with a rod up
his
> ass?
>
>
>
>

[Willi]

Wolfgang wrote:
Then too, fly fishing as it is
> practiced in the U.S. today depends pretty heavily on a general level of
> affluence that we have come to take for granted for a couple of generations
> but which recent evidence suggests may not continue indefinitely.




I think interest is waning. I think fly fishing is on its way to once
again being judged as eccentric instead of cool.

Willi

[Tim J.]

"Willi" wrote...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> Then too, fly fishing as it is
> > practiced in the U.S. today depends pretty heavily on a general level of
> > affluence that we have come to take for granted for a couple of generations
> > but which recent evidence suggests may not continue indefinitely.
>
> I think interest is waning. I think fly fishing is on its way to once
> again being judged as eccentric instead of cool.

Well, then, that's it for me. I'm already WAY too cool for this crowd.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

[rw]

Wolfgang wrote:
>
> I mean, let's face it, this isn't going to make
> anyone's list of x-games.

Obviously, you've never fished with Bruiser. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Wolfgang]

"rw" > wrote in message
. ..
> Wolfgang wrote:
> >
> > I mean, let's face it, this isn't going to make
> > anyone's list of x-games.
>
> Obviously, you've never fished with Bruiser. :-)

Nope, haven't had the pleasure. However, I'm not yet so decrepit or jaded
that I'll dismiss the prospect of a bit of adventure out of hand. Is he
likely to make me do anything much more strenuous or dangerous than climbing
waterfalls with a fly rod clamped in my teeth?

Wolfgang
who would like a detailed prospectus with photos, route maps, rescue
options, etc., if so. :)

[Hooked]

"JR" > wrote in message ...
>
> And will be getting to an age at which strolling on the local golf
> course may seem more appealing than searching for, catching and
> releasing the 10,000th trout.


This is total bull****!!!

Golfing is for those who don't know how to fish!!!!!!

[Hooked]

"Tim J." > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Well, then, that's it for me. I'm already WAY too cool for this crowd.


Only if you live in a far northern climate than I do.

Go fishing here right now and you won't be cool, you'll be frozen!!!!!

[Hooked]

"smiles" > wrote in message
...
> A good many salmon rivers here in Eastern Canada have privately owned
> sections that were accorded to families when Canada was first colonized.
>
> --


Damn French colonies are no better than the Limey *******s!!

[JR]

Hooked wrote:
>
> "JR" > wrote in message ...
> >
> > And will be getting to an age at which strolling on the local golf
> > course may seem more appealing than searching for, catching and
> > releasing the 10,000th trout.
>
> This is total bull****!!!

Just commenting on social trends, not endorsing them. :(

> Golfing is for those who don't know how to fish!!!!!!

Not to mention that most golf courses are small-scale environmental
disasters.

JR
--BTW, you misspelled !!!! and !!!!!!!!!! <g>

[Hooked]

"JR" > wrote in message ...
>
> Not to mention that most golf courses are small-scale environmental
> disasters.
>


Oh. A golf course? No problem!!! We'll just fill in this here lake and
you'll have your course in no time. So long as you can line the local Army
Corps of Engineers pockets...

[Scott Seidman]

(Greg Pavlov) wrote in news:4018fd35.17512511
@news.cis.dfn.de:

> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:22:52 -0700, Willi > wrote:
>
>>
>>I think interest is waning. I think fly fishing is on its way to once
>>again being judged as eccentric instead of cool.
>
> It doesn't seem that way around here, in western
> NY. Some of that may be because a lot of people
> here fish for steelhead in pretty much the same
> way, regardless of the tackle theyy're using.
>
> The number of people who flyfish sal****er seems
> to be increasing.

Flyfishing seems more popular than ever here, in fact, if you go by how
much floor space the big sports retailers are dedicating to it

Scott

[Nogood Boyo]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 at 10:46:22 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sandy wrote:
>Hooked wrote:
>> "Greg Pavlov" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> A friend of mine owns a house on the Spey,
>>> but she does not have the right to fish it:
>>> someone else owns the fishing rights.
>>
>>
>> I do believe that I would have to get to know my neighbors real good.
>>
>> Or is this "someone else" some sort of "Duke of Something" with a rod
>> up his ass?
>
Could be anybody. A previous owner of the house might have sold to
anyone. Or the owner of the land might have retained the rights when
selling the land to the person who built the house. Loads of
possibilities... A "duke or something" probably features somewhere..!

>I think she probably has the right to fish it for trout if she owns the land
>down to the bank as it is only the salmon/seatrout fishing that can be sold
>seperately from the land.
>
As I said, the position in Scotland is different from that elsewhere in
the UK. In England and Wales there's no such distinction between trout
fishing and salmon / sea trout fishing.

--
Nogood Boyo

[Willi]

Scott Seidman wrote:

> (Greg Pavlov) wrote in news:4018fd35.17512511
> @news.cis.dfn.de:
>
>
>>On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:22:52 -0700, Willi > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I think interest is waning. I think fly fishing is on its way to once
>>>again being judged as eccentric instead of cool.
>>
>> It doesn't seem that way around here, in western
>> NY. Some of that may be because a lot of people
>> here fish for steelhead in pretty much the same
>> way, regardless of the tackle theyy're using.
>>
>> The number of people who flyfish sal****er seems
>> to be increasing.
>
>
> Flyfishing seems more popular than ever here, in fact, if you go by how
> much floor space the big sports retailers are dedicating to it
>
> Scott

Don't think the industry figures will back you up.

Maybe it's just that you guys back East are trying to be cool by doing
something that's "passe" in the rest of the Country.

Willi

[Scott Seidman]

Willi > wrote in news:4016e74f$0$70307$75868355
@news.frii.net:

>
>
> Scott Seidman wrote:
>
>> (Greg Pavlov) wrote in news:4018fd35.17512511
>> @news.cis.dfn.de:
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:22:52 -0700, Willi > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think interest is waning. I think fly fishing is on its way to once
>>>>again being judged as eccentric instead of cool.
>>>
>>> It doesn't seem that way around here, in western
>>> NY. Some of that may be because a lot of people
>>> here fish for steelhead in pretty much the same
>>> way, regardless of the tackle theyy're using.
>>>
>>> The number of people who flyfish sal****er seems
>>> to be increasing.
>>
>>
>> Flyfishing seems more popular than ever here, in fact, if you go by
how
>> much floor space the big sports retailers are dedicating to it
>>
>> Scott
>
> Don't think the industry figures will back you up.
>
> Maybe it's just that you guys back East are trying to be cool by doing
> something that's "passe" in the rest of the Country.
>
> Willi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I might be sensitized, but I've noticed more fly fishing and tying events
in the last year or so than I used to. In general, I think most outdoor
sports are taking a spending hit, what with the economy the way it is,
and Kodak spitting out employees like they're watermelon seeds, but I
thing fly fishing is getting a bigger part of the fishing dollar over
here.

Scott

[Willi]

Wolfgang wrote:


> Wolfgang
> who would like a detailed prospectus with photos, route maps, rescue
> options, etc., if so. :)

We all know you're the original wild man, but photos and descriptions of
some of his exploits have been posted in the past.

Bruiser is a fun guy to fish with.

Willi

[Jeff Miller]

wolfgang and bruiser are each excellent fishermen and a hoot to fish
with...both are also uncommonly welcoming and helpful to those who have
the opportunity to go fishing with them. of course, wolfie is about 20
years older than bruce <g> ... .

jeff

Willi wrote:


>
> We all know you're the original wild man, but photos and descriptions of
> some of his exploits have been posted in the past.
>
> Bruiser is a fun guy to fish with.
>
>

[Wolfgang]

"Willi" > wrote in message
...
>

> We all know you're the original wild man,

Well, NOW we do. Frankly, I hadn't been aware of that. Oh, I'm not so
decrepit or jaded as to dismiss the prospect of a bit of adventure out of
hand but, till now, I never knew that I was any sort of wild man.

> but photos and descriptions of
> some of his exploits have been posted in the past.

I don't remember any specifics, but I do have a vague recollection of some
references......sounds kinda fun.

> Bruiser is a fun guy to fish with.

I hope to be in a position to concur some day.

Wolfgang

[Wolfgang]

"Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
news:PFCRb.1838$fZ6.1146@lakeread06...
> wolfgang and bruiser are each excellent fishermen and a hoot to fish
> with...both are also uncommonly welcoming and helpful to those who have
> the opportunity to go fishing with them. of course, wolfie is about 20
> years older than bruce <g> ... .

Hmph!.....fukkin' teenagers. :(

Wolfgang

[ezflyfisher]

Greg Pavlov wrote:

>
> Scott and I are more in far east / near midwest
> territory and in general we run quite late behind
> much of the rest of the country trend-wise.


greg, have ya heard about cortland 444 and the sage sp's yet? awesome
stuff bro.

wally

[Kevin Vang]

In article >,
says..
>
> Scott and I are more in far east / near midwest
> territory

Well, maybe, if you consider the word "near" to
mean "you can get there from here on a three hour
flight."

I always thought it was hilarious when people
from freakin' OHIO thought they lived in the
midwest; I never dreamed that people living
in a state _touching the Atlantic ocean_ thought
they were anywhere close to the midwest.

Kevin,
who lives only 60 miles west of:
http://www.realnd.com/rugbycenter156k.htm

[rb608]

"Kevin Vang" > wrote in message
> I always thought it was hilarious when people
> from freakin' OHIO thought they lived in the
> midwest; I never dreamed that people living
> in a state _touching the Atlantic ocean_ thought
> they were anywhere close to the midwest.

Back when I cared, the "Deed of Gift" of the America's Cup (the yacht race)
required that any competing yacht club must be "on an arm of the ocean" or
some **** like that. Somehow, a club in Wisconsin managed to sell the
notion that because they had access to the Great Lakes, they were on an "arm
of the ocean". So if Wisconsin is on the Atlantic coast, just where the
hell does the Miswest begin? :-)

Joe F.

[Ken Fortenberry]

rb608 wrote:

>
> ... just where the
> hell does the Miswest begin? :-)

On Mae Day ? ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Kevin Vang]

In article >,
says...
> So if Wisconsin is on the Atlantic coast, just where the
> hell does the Miswest begin? :-)
>

Somewhere near Butte, MT, I guess...

Kevin,
who apparently lives a half mile from an arm of Hudson's Bay.

[Bill Mason]

"rb608" > wrote in message
...
>
> So if Wisconsin is on the Atlantic coast, just where the
> hell does the Miswest begin? :-)
>

Well, if you consider atmospheric moisture...

Cheers,
Bill
(Livin' in the Seychelles)

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:52:08 GMT, "rb608"
> wrote:

>

>
>Back when I cared, the "Deed of Gift" of the America's Cup (the yacht race)
>required that any competing yacht club must be "on an arm of the ocean" or
>some **** like that. Somehow, a club in Wisconsin managed to sell the
>notion that because they had access to the Great Lakes, they were on an "arm
>of the ocean". So if Wisconsin is on the Atlantic coast, just where the
>hell does the Miswest begin? :-)

Iowa could stand alone as quintessential Midwest. though throwing in
every state that touches it gets most of them (other than NoDak) that
count.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

[Wolfgang]

> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:52:08 GMT, "rb608"
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
> >Back when I cared, the "Deed of Gift" of the America's Cup (the yacht
race)
> >required that any competing yacht club must be "on an arm of the ocean"
or
> >some **** like that. Somehow, a club in Wisconsin managed to sell the
> >notion that because they had access to the Great Lakes, they were on an
"arm
> >of the ocean". So if Wisconsin is on the Atlantic coast, just where the
> >hell does the Miswest begin? :-)
>
> Iowa could stand alone as quintessential Midwest. though throwing in
> every state that touches it gets most of them (other than NoDak) that
> count.

Hm.....given the criteria already mentioned, it seems that Davenport, Iowa
is no less an international seaport than Portage, Wisconsin. Thinking the
matter through, one could make a strong argument for the case that the great
Midwest, like so many other quintessentially American places, things,
qualities, and attitudes simply doesn't exist. Nevertheless, not one to
belabor a pilpul, I'm willing to let the matter rest. What still perplexes
me is just where the Middle East is and, more importantly, why.

Wolfgang
somewhere near the perimeter of the old northwest.

[Wayne Knight]

"Kevin Vang" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says..
> >
>
> I always thought it was hilarious when people
> from freakin' OHIO thought they lived in the
> midwest; I never dreamed that people living
> in a state _touching the Atlantic ocean_ thought
> they were anywhere close to the midwest.
>

what I'm more interested in knowing, is when did Ohio get a beach on the
Atlantic Ocean.

Wayne
On the eastern side of the mid-west. And who used to live too damn close to
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/3162/HiPlains/GeoCenter/hiplains_geocenter.htm

[B J Conner]

Idaho has a seaport. That fact is one of the arguements for keep the dams
on the Columbia and Snake rivers.
I don't think many of those potatos go out by barge however.

"Wayne Knight" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kevin Vang" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > says..
> > >
> >
> > I always thought it was hilarious when people
> > from freakin' OHIO thought they lived in the
> > midwest; I never dreamed that people living
> > in a state _touching the Atlantic ocean_ thought
> > they were anywhere close to the midwest.
> >
>
> what I'm more interested in knowing, is when did Ohio get a beach on the
> Atlantic Ocean.
>
> Wayne
> On the eastern side of the mid-west. And who used to live too damn close
to
>
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/3162/HiPlains/GeoCenter/hiplains_geocenter.htm
>
>
>

[rw]

B J Conner wrote:
> Idaho has a seaport. That fact is one of the arguements for keep the dams
> on the Columbia and Snake rivers.

It's the major argument, and it's ridiculous when you look into the
economics:

http://www.amrivers.org/pressrelease/snake011604.htm

The real divisions over the issue are political and ideological, not
practical.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Kevin Vang]

In article >,
says...
>
> what I'm more interested in knowing, is when did Ohio get a beach on the
> Atlantic Ocean.


It didn't, I was referring to Greg Pavlov's home in upstate New York,
which he described as being near the Midwest on at least two occasions.


Kevin

[Jonathan Cook]

Kevin Vang > wrote in message >...
>
> I always thought it was hilarious when people
> from freakin' OHIO thought they lived in the
> midwest;

So what would you classify OH as?

> I never dreamed that people living
> in a state _touching the Atlantic ocean_ thought
> they were anywhere close to the midwest.

Hmm...better brush up on geography, or otherwise we
might claim that you're living on Hudson's Bay, and
half your state is in the bayou ;-)

Jon.

[Jeff]

Greg Pavlov wrote:


> It's a state of mind as much as geography.
> Buffalo may be in the same state as NYC,
> but Raleigh-Durham has much more in common
> with NYC than does Buffalo, which is much
> closer in spirit (but not in wealth) to
> Chicago.

....Say What??? It's only because I happily know nothing of Buffalo
(other than the reports of seriously cold weather) that I am unable to
pick a good argument with you on this one... but, solely from your posts
here, I suspect you know more about NYC than you do about either Raleigh
or Durham. BTW, Raleigh-Durham isn't at all akin to Winston-Salem...<g>

jeff (90 miles due east of Raleigh)

[rw]

Greg Pavlov wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:29:09 -0600, Kevin Vang >
> wrote:
>
>
>>It didn't, I was referring to Greg Pavlov's home in upstate New York,
>>which he described as being near the Midwest on at least two occasions.
>
>
> It's a state of mind as much as geography.

The Midwest is NOT a state of mind, It's tuna noodle casserole served
with green beans and Jello fruit salad.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Wayne Harrison]

"rw" > wrote in message
. ..
> Greg Pavlov wrote:
> > On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:29:09 -0600, Kevin Vang >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>It didn't, I was referring to Greg Pavlov's home in upstate New York,
> >>which he described as being near the Midwest on at least two occasions.
> >
> >
> > It's a state of mind as much as geography.
>
> The Midwest is NOT a state of mind, It's tuna noodle casserole served
> with green beans and Jello fruit salad.

hilarious, even though i am not completely satisfied that some imposter
didn't file the post. :)

wayno

[Wolfgang]

"rw" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> The Midwest is....tuna noodle casserole served
> with green beans and Jello fruit salad.

Hm.....I was going to offer a comment but, on second thought, I guess I'm
not prepared to counter your assertion that the Midwest is something
entirely beyond your comprehension.

Wolfgang

[Kevin Vang]

In article >,
says...
> Kevin Vang > wrote in message >...
> >
> > I always thought it was hilarious when people
> > from freakin' OHIO thought they lived in the
> > midwest;
>
> So what would you classify OH as?

Well, on my atlas, it sure looks like and eastern
state to me.


> > I never dreamed that people living
> > in a state _touching the Atlantic ocean_ thought
> > they were anywhere close to the midwest.
>
> Hmm...better brush up on geography, or otherwise we
> might claim that you're living on Hudson's Bay, and
> half your state is in the bayou ;-)

Again, the state I was refering to was New Yawk, as
I was responding to G. Pavlov's post. However, as it
has been close to -40 the last couple of mornings, it
does actually feel like I'm living on Hudson's Bay. :(

Kevin
>
> Jon.
>

[rw]

Wayne Harrison wrote:
>
> hilarious, even though i am not completely satisfied that some imposter
> didn't file the post. :)

Hey, I lived in Minneapolis for ten years and married a Minnesota girl.
That was a long time ago, but she still makes the best damn tuna noodle
casserole I've ever eaten. If I smother it with pepper is doesn't suck
too bad, but it's much better the next day, warmed up in the oven (not
the microwave). The trick is to make the crumbled potato chip topping
crispy and to be real hungry.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Wolfgang]

"Kevin Vang" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
> > Kevin Vang > wrote in message
>...
> > >
> > > I always thought it was hilarious when people
> > > from freakin' OHIO thought they lived in the
> > > midwest;
> >
> > So what would you classify OH as?
>
> Well, on my atlas, it sure looks like and eastern
> state to me.
>
>
> > > I never dreamed that people living
> > > in a state _touching the Atlantic ocean_ thought
> > > they were anywhere close to the midwest.
> >
> > Hmm...better brush up on geography, or otherwise we
> > might claim that you're living on Hudson's Bay, and
> > half your state is in the bayou ;-)
>
> Again, the state I was refering to was New Yawk, as
> I was responding to G. Pavlov's post. However, as it
> has been close to -40 the last couple of mornings, it
> does actually feel like I'm living on Hudson's Bay. :(

Hm......

Looks like we got us a gem quality ambiguity here. Everyone may have
figured it out by now, but it doesn't look that way, so.....

On first reading, I too thought you were saying that Ohio touches the
Atlantic ocean. It's a bit harder to see here because your original
sentence has been split at the semicolon, but if you put the part beginning
"I never dreamed..." back where it was, that's a perfectly reasonable
interpretation. I was going to mention it myself, but then the notion of
rivers or other waterways being extensions of the ocean was put forward and
I thought maybe that's what you had in mind. It was only after this last
protestation of yours that I went back and looked at the sentence carefully.
In light of your insistence that you were referring to New York in the
latter half, your point becomes clear and, of course, you haven't violated
any grammatical rules in making it. But it sure does look like "...a state_
touching the Atlantic ocean_..." harks back to the antecedent Ohio.

Wolfgang
somewhere in the heart of the upper midwest.

[Jeff Miller]

most will agree there is a definite, observable "tide-line" in the
so-called research triangle... but, i think you've been swimming in a
narrow channel of those waters if you think the abundant population of
the area akin to that of nyc. the universities (unc, duke, nc state)
and their affiliated hospital industries, along with the hi-tech
business environment of rti, attract an unusual, eclectic mix of folks -
including our own favorite (and much-missed) utah mormon. next time your
down this way, walk around one of the big malls and watch/listen to the
folks around you... or go to a genuine barbecue joint...

making comparisons about raleigh or durham based on experiences limited
to brief visits to chappie college, dook, or rti is a bit thin... but, i
understood your meaning. many down here think the entire stretch of land
from raleigh to winston-salem along the i-40 corridor a wasteland
deserving of, dare i say, even a yankee's opprobrium; however, even
those perceptively holding that view bristle at any suggestion of
similarities to new york.

jeff

Greg Pavlov wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:59:17 GMT, Jeff > wrote:
>
>>...Say What??? It's only because I happily know nothing of Buffalo
>>(other than the reports of seriously cold weather) that I am unable to
>>pick a good argument with you on this one... but, solely from your posts
>>here, I suspect you know more about NYC than you do about either Raleigh
>>or Durham. BTW, Raleigh-Durham isn't at all akin to Winston-Salem...<g>
>>
>
> The meaning of several things I said on things
> remotely related to NC has been pretty well
> mangled several times. I should have said
> the Triangle area rather than Raleigh-Durham
> specifically. You're right, I know a lot more
> about NYC. There seems to be several Triangles,
> including a big one that includes Burroughs,
> RTI, a lot of similar companies, UNC, and the
> people they attract and the communities they
> spawn. Those are the places I've been in and
> the people I've dealt with and they're much
> more east coast than Buffalo. Hell, that's
> where a heck of a lot of them are from.
>

[Zimbo]

Jeff Miller wrote:
> the universities (unc, duke, nc state) and their affiliated hospital
industries,
> along with the hi-tech business environment of rti, attract an unusual,
> eclectic mix of folks - including our own favorite (and much-missed)
> utah mormon.

Wow, I had no idea Orrin Hatch lived in the triangle.

--Steve

[George Cleveland]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:17:15 GMT, "Zimbo"
> wrote:

>Jeff Miller wrote:
>> the universities (unc, duke, nc state) and their affiliated hospital
>industries,
>> along with the hi-tech business environment of rti, attract an unusual,
>> eclectic mix of folks - including our own favorite (and much-missed)
>> utah mormon.
>
>Wow, I had no idea Orrin Hatch lived in the triangle.
>
>--Steve
>
>
I thought he was referring to Donny Osmond.

g.c.

[Jeff Miller]

....<g>

that would be asking a bit much even of rti's brand of southern
hospitality. i know i haven't missed him...

good to see your typing imprints in these parts again... been doing any
fishing?

jeff

Zimbo wrote:

> Jeff Miller wrote:
>
>> an unusual,
>>eclectic mix of folks - including our own favorite (and much-missed)
>>utah mormon.
>
>
> Wow, I had no idea Orrin Hatch lived in the triangle.
>
> --Steve
>
>

[Kevin Vang]

In article >,
says...
>
> Hm......
>
> Looks like we got us a gem quality ambiguity here.

Well, in retrospect, I wish I had phrased that a little
more carefully. In my own defense, I was only trying to
give Greg Pavlov some ****, and HE knew what I was
talking about.

>
> Wolfgang
> somewhere in the heart of the upper midwest.


Kevin,
Probably outside of the Midwest, as it is too dry
to grow corn around here.

[George Cleveland]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:01:43 -0600, Kevin Vang > wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>>
>> Hm......
>>
>> Looks like we got us a gem quality ambiguity here.
>
>Well, in retrospect, I wish I had phrased that a little
>more carefully. In my own defense, I was only trying to
>give Greg Pavlov some ****, and HE knew what I was
>talking about.
>
>>
>> Wolfgang
>> somewhere in the heart of the upper midwest.
>
>
>Kevin,
>Probably outside of the Midwest, as it is too dry
>to grow corn around here.

Whoa there. You were just worrying about it being too wet to plant your
garden this spring. Let's try to keep our stories straight.

g.c.

If you think you're going to escape the "midwesterner" tag that easily I'm
sorry to have to disillusion you.

[Wolfgang]

"Kevin Vang" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > Hm......
> >
> > Looks like we got us a gem quality ambiguity here.
>
> Well, in retrospect, I wish I had phrased that a little
> more carefully.

Well, there's no accounting for taste. Personally, I thought thought it was
fun.

> In my own defense,

No defense necessary.

> I was only trying to
> give Greg Pavlov some ****, and HE knew what I was
> talking about.

Thus providing a rare example of ROFFian writer and reader being on the same
page. :)

> > Wolfgang
> > somewhere in the heart of the upper midwest.
>
>
> Kevin,
> Probably outside of the Midwest, as it is too dry
> to grow corn around here.

Nah, that's got nothing to do with it. Whether or not one is in the Midwest
is a matter of agenda.

Wolfgang
who, like so many others, moves in and out with sometimes alarming alacrity.

[Jeff Miller]

Greg Pavlov wrote:
>
>
> I'm sure you're right, but then again, what have you seen of the
> population in NYC ? I was in a mall in your neck of the woods,
> and I've wandered around Raleigh at night, and yes, there are all
> sorts of folks there, but that's true of NYC as well. And a lot
> of them in both places speak foreign languages :-)

you were just hearing southern. nc is different in many ways, and i
think more progressive, than the other southern states below virginia.
just today i read a byte in which a south carolinian was claiming nc
wasn't a true southern state as was sc... (must be that flag thing).
however, if you pay attention to the sounds and movement and
interactions, there is no similarity between folks in raleigh malls and
the people i observed/heard in those big stores in nyc... i haven't been
back to nyc for more than a decade, and i have avoided invitations and
exhortations to go. i did spend a good bit of time there in the 80s...
manhattan, brooklyn, hoboken nj. it was fun in a "visit to the zoo"
kind of way, except the animals were much scarier. the holiday inn in
hoboken did remind me of the howard johnson hotel and the holiday inn in
raleigh though...
>
>
>>
>
> I don't know many yankees. There's Dean and Kerry, and George Bush
> Sr. A lot of us here are Eastern European immigrants, many a
> generation or two removed. But there were a heck of a lot of
> immigrants in the Union armies, weren't there ? And your priors
> were fighting yankees, so I can see why you're confused :-) Or
> we're just all Northern stereotypes ruminating on Southern
> stereotypes.

the term "yankees" is obviously not one of precise meaning or
application as currently used. even though i've lived in nc 52 of my 53
years, since my parents were transplants from florida and indiana, i'm
not considered a true southerner. however, as a southern colloquialism,
i think "yankee" certainly applies to the american citizen residents of
buffalo, ny. i use it solely in jest, and i hope you and others accept
that i never mean it as an offensive or derisive term, though i suppose
it can be perceived as inappropriate to friendly discussion among
strangers. northerners and southerners is probably more apt and
descriptive of us.
>
>
>
>
> Hey, what can I say ? Youse guys are still more like The City
> than we are (well, maybe...). Once air conditioning got going,
> it was just a matter of time.

<g> you'll need to spend a bit of time in eastern nc (east of i-95) to
understand the error of your statement... i'll introduce you to allan
ballance of hyde county and y'all guys can discuss the similarities of
nc and nyc...

[Jeff Miller]

Greg Pavlov wrote:

>>
>><g> you'll need to spend a bit of time in eastern nc (east of i-95) to
>>understand the error of your statement... i'll introduce you to allan
>>ballance of hyde county and y'all guys can discuss the similarities of
>>nc and nyc...
>
>
> I don't know if that's an invitation for a beer
> or a threat :-) But I'd just as soon leave it
> ambiguous and move on, before I say something
> even more stupid and get myself into real trouble.
> And I really do want to get down to one of the
> NC claves one of these days.

no threat lurking anywhere in those words. i've no ability or
inclination to be a threat to anyone.

allan is as basic a human and southerner (in the old and true sense)
that i know and could think of on short notice. about 70 years old, he
has ancestry rooted in eastern nc and hyde county for two centuries,
grew up in tough times, fought in the big war as an infantry man, and
farmed and hunted all his life. he's probably richer than midas, but
you'd never know it. peter charles may have met him...i don't remember.
but if you want an experience of eastern nc, he's as good a read as
turgenev. he's also a hell of a nice guy...just don't reach for any of
the food on his plate.

as you know, we've accommodated fortenberry, wolfgang, rw, lacourse,
daytripper...so we ain't real particular and we generally try to be
hospitable. i might resurrect and reestablish the anticlave in october.

jeff

[Jeff Miller]

i'll have to admit to one similarity between rtp and buffalo... neither
holds any appeal as a place i'd voluntarily visit. plus, i expect greg
would suggest i visit buffalo in january or february....

jeff

Charlie Choc wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:53:54 GMT, (Greg Pavlov)
> wrote:
>
>
>>I don't know if that's an invitation for a beer
>>or a threat :-) But I'd just as soon leave it
>>ambiguous and move on, before I say something
>>even more stupid and get myself into real trouble.
>>And I really do want to get down to one of the
>>NC claves one of these days.
>
>
> Why not invite Jeff to spend some time in Buffalo? He might find it is
> as similar to NYC as Bryson City is to RTP. <g>

[Charlie Choc]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:30:46 -0500, Jeff Miller
> wrote:

>i'll have to admit to one similarity between rtp and buffalo... neither
>holds any appeal as a place i'd voluntarily visit. plus, i expect greg
>would suggest i visit buffalo in january or february....
>
I wasn't suggesting RTP and Buffalo were similar, just that Buffalo is
nothing like NYC (just like Bryson City is nothing like RTP).
--
Charlie...

[Jeff Miller]

Charlie Choc wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:30:46 -0500, Jeff Miller
> > wrote:
>
>
>>i'll have to admit to one similarity between rtp and buffalo... neither
>>holds any appeal as a place i'd voluntarily visit. plus, i expect greg
>>would suggest i visit buffalo in january or february....
>>
>
> I wasn't suggesting RTP and Buffalo were similar, just that Buffalo is
> nothing like NYC (just like Bryson City is nothing like RTP).

....and i wasn't suggesting you were...<g> though i'm admittedly denser
than most, i understood your meaning. i jumped tracks and was tying back
into greg's original simile... in a weak attempt at humor...

jeff

[Bob Patton]

"Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
news:1j8Tb.14659$fZ6.3477@lakeread06...
>
>
//snip//
>
> <g> you'll need to spend a bit of time in eastern nc (east of i-95) to
> understand the error of your statement... i'll introduce you to allan
> ballance of hyde county and y'all guys can discuss the similarities of
> nc and nyc...

I-95???
Eastern NC is anywhere east of Bat Cave. Hyde County is in the Far East. You
know, somewheres near England, France, Japan, and Swanquarter.
Bob

[daytripper]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:26:14 -0500, Jeff Miller >
wrote:

>
>
>Greg Pavlov wrote:
>
>>>
>>><g> you'll need to spend a bit of time in eastern nc (east of i-95) to
>>>understand the error of your statement... i'll introduce you to allan
>>>ballance of hyde county and y'all guys can discuss the similarities of
>>>nc and nyc...
>>
>>
>> I don't know if that's an invitation for a beer
>> or a threat :-) But I'd just as soon leave it
>> ambiguous and move on, before I say something
>> even more stupid and get myself into real trouble.
>> And I really do want to get down to one of the
>> NC claves one of these days.
>
>no threat lurking anywhere in those words. i've no ability or
>inclination to be a threat to anyone.

Well, yeah - as long as the Greentown Trail isn't involved.

>allan is as basic a human and southerner (in the old and true sense)
>that i know and could think of on short notice. about 70 years old, he
>has ancestry rooted in eastern nc and hyde county for two centuries,
>grew up in tough times, fought in the big war as an infantry man, and
>farmed and hunted all his life. he's probably richer than midas, but
>you'd never know it. peter charles may have met him...i don't remember.
> but if you want an experience of eastern nc, he's as good a read as
>turgenev. he's also a hell of a nice guy...just don't reach for any of
>the food on his plate.
>
>as you know, we've accommodated fortenberry, wolfgang, rw, lacourse,
>daytripper...so we ain't real particular and we generally try to be
>hospitable. i might resurrect and reestablish the anticlave in october.

Wow....What did I do to be included in *that* list?!?

/daytripper (Such..."illustrious" company I keep! ;-)

[Jeff Miller]

daytripper wrote:

> Wow....What did I do to be included in *that* list?!?
>
> /daytripper (Such..."illustrious" company I keep! ;-)

you're a yan...uh, northerner... <g>

jeff

[daytripper]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:25:57 -0500, Jeff Miller >
wrote:

>
>
>daytripper wrote:
>
>> Wow....What did I do to be included in *that* list?!?
>>
>> /daytripper (Such..."illustrious" company I keep! ;-)
>
>you're a yan...uh, northerner... <g>
>
>jeff

Ouch. I got no defense for that.

The cross is heavy, but I'll bear it, braced with knowing The Homeland Defense
will be dining on Carolina Kitties in a mere three hours ;-)

/daytripper ("Pats Eat Cats! Film at eleven!")

[Jeff Miller]

ouch back... y'all go easy on our poor li'l tabbies. and...um, who gave
me carolina and 17 points?

jeff

daytripper wrote:


>
> Ouch. I got no defense for that.
>
> The cross is heavy, but I'll bear it, braced with knowing The Homeland Defense
> will be dining on Carolina Kitties in a mere three hours ;-)
>
> /daytripper ("Pats Eat Cats! Film at eleven!")

[Jonathan Cook]

Kevin Vang > wrote in message >...

> > So what would you classify OH as?
>
> Well, on my atlas, it sure looks like and eastern
> state to me.

To an Ohioan (Ohian?), "east" begins somewhere around
mid-Pennsylvania.

I'd agree that rust-belt midwest is different than
great-plains midwest, but it's definitely not "eastern".

> has been close to -40 the last couple of mornings, it
> does actually feel like I'm living on Hudson's Bay. :(

I know what you mean -- my dogs' water bowl outside was
frozen solid this morning! Brrr! :-)

Jon.

[jim bevan]

I live in Glasgow and have fished most areas of Scotland , where are you
going and what are you fishing for trout or salmon. I am a trout man but I
can put you in touch with salmon info if required.

Jim
"Sandy" > wrote in message
...
> Michael McCaugherty wrote:
> > G'day,
> >
> > There is the possibility that I may be in Scotland this May. Would
> > there be any advice out there about the possibility of wetting a line
> > in the land of Robbie Burns?
> >
> > I am planning to give fly fishing a try this summer. Would taking an
> > inaugural fly fishing expedition in the highlands be asking too much?
> >
> > Michael
>
> Where do I start!!
>
> When in May and where are you staying?
>
> Try here for places to fish.
>
> http://www.where-to-fish.com/content/2d.html
>
> Click on the link below for the legal bit.
>
> http://www.flyfish-scotland.com/scotslaw.htm
>
> Now that we have got that out of the way it really isn't that difficult to
> find free/cheap fishing as long as you know where to go. You mentioned the
> highlands, I have a weeks camping/fishing trip to the highlands every year
> in May, and it has never cost more than £100/$180us and that includes
> travel.
>
> I have fished Attadale, great if you don't mind the 13 mile walk to most
of
> the lochs, which is free, Lochinver, £30 for a weeks fishing on approx.
150
> lochs, Kilmelford, used to be £25 for the weeks fishing but may be higher
> now, which has approx 20 lochs.
>
> If you want to read more of these places go to my website and click on the
> links in the navigation bar.
>
> If you can supply me with a bit more information I may be able to put
> something together for you, can't promise though :)
>
>
> --
> Don`t Worry, Be Happy
>
> Sandy
> --
>
> E-Mail:-
> Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
> IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667
> #Rabble Channel Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/rabbled
> ICQ : 41266150
>
>