Enuff of this!

[Frank Church]

Temp 4 degrees, windchill 20 below zero! Who needs this crap...I'm outta
here in the AM for central Florida for a few days and I might even wind up
going further south to who-knows-where. Maybe just far enough till I bitch
about the heat, then it's time to set up camp and fish! Got a couple of new
'boos to try out (new to me anyway) Left instructions for the wife to feed
the canary and the cat (and if that little sucker don't start singing
pretty soon, feed him *to* the cat) Ya'll please allow me to gloat just
this once, and play nice while I'm gone.

Frank (Alligator Dundee) Church

[Wayne Harrison]

"Frank Church" > wrote in message
9.11...
> Temp 4 degrees, windchill 20 below zero! Who needs this crap...I'm outta
> here in the AM for central Florida for a few days and I might even wind up
> going further south to who-knows-where.

god, how i do envy you, frank.


yfitons
wayno (who, the coming monday, will face the 35th year of walking into a
courtroom with some poor *******'s future in his hands.)

[Dave LaCourse]

wayno writes:

>wayno (who, the coming monday, will face the 35th year of walking into a
>courtroom with some poor *******'s future in his hands.)

And just what the hell have you done with the $35,000,000?
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

[Frank Church]

"Wayne Harrison" > wrote in
om:

> wayno (who, the coming monday, will face the 35th year of walking
> into a courtroom with some poor *******'s future in his hands.)

....better you than me sez I...couldn't handle that kind of pressure. But
hey, the money would be cool.

yfitohs
frank

[Wayne Harrison]

"Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
> wayno writes:
>
> >wayno (who, the coming monday, will face the 35th year of walking into a
> >courtroom with some poor *******'s future in his hands.)
>
> And just what the hell have you done with the $35,000,000?
> Dave

good question. i think the answer lies between the thighs of three
mighty fine women.

yfitons
wayno (hell, you know what i mean...ask her to walk in the room, and
turn around. all will be revealed.)
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Tim J.]

"Wayne Harrison" wrote...
> "Frank Church" wrote...
> > Temp 4 degrees, windchill 20 below zero! Who needs this crap...I'm outta
> > here in the AM for central Florida for a few days and I might even wind up
> > going further south to who-knows-where.
>
> god, how i do envy you, frank.
>
>
> yfitons
> wayno (who, the coming monday, will face the 35th year of walking into a
> courtroom with some poor *******'s future in his hands.)

I always thought you were a criminal attorney, and now I find out you're a
washroom attendant at the courthouse. That thoroughly blows the image, but
explains a lot. :)
--
TL,
Tim
(with tips, the income is probably about the same, anyway.)
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

[Wolfgang]

"Wayne Harrison" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Frank Church" > wrote in message
> 9.11...
> > Temp 4 degrees, windchill 20 below zero! Who needs this crap...I'm outta
> > here in the AM for central Florida for a few days and I might even wind
up
> > going further south to who-knows-where.
>
> god, how i do envy you, frank.
>
>
> yfitons
> wayno (who, the coming monday, will face the 35th year of walking into a
> courtroom with some poor *******'s future in his hands.)

Hm......I don't suppose it would cheer you up to remind you that you
actually hold more than one poor *******'s future in your hands, and that
one of them is you, would it? :)

Wolfgang
something to think about, anyway.

[Big Dale]

wayno wrote:> god, how i do envy you, frank.
>
>
>yfitons
>wayno (who, the coming monday, will face the 35th year of walking into a
>courtroom with some poor *******'s future in his hands.)

damn!!! bet you dind't know that scotch was that expensive.

When you going to give up that working stuff and fish and drink for the second
half of your life?

Big Dale

[walt winter]

Frank Church wrote:
> Temp 4 degrees, windchill 20 below zero! Who needs this crap...I'm outta
> here in the AM for central Florida for a few days and I might even wind up
> going further south to who-knows-where. Maybe just far enough till I bitch
> about the heat, then it's time to set up camp and fish! Got a couple of new
> 'boos to try out (new to me anyway) Left instructions for the wife to feed
> the canary and the cat (and if that little sucker don't start singing
> pretty soon, feed him *to* the cat) Ya'll please allow me to gloat just
> this once, and play nice while I'm gone.
>
> Frank (Alligator Dundee) Church

hey frank, if ya don't mind, swing on by and pick me up on the
way down.

wally... friggin cold here also

[George Cleveland]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 01:25:17 GMT, Frank Church
> wrote:

>Temp 4 degrees, windchill 20 below zero! Who needs this crap...I'm outta
>here in the AM for central Florida for a few days and I might even wind up
>going further south to who-knows-where. Maybe just far enough till I bitch
>about the heat, then it's time to set up camp and fish! Got a couple of new
>'boos to try out (new to me anyway) Left instructions for the wife to feed
>the canary and the cat (and if that little sucker don't start singing
>pretty soon, feed him *to* the cat) Ya'll please allow me to gloat just
>this once, and play nice while I'm gone.
>
>Frank (Alligator Dundee) Church


Yeah, yeah. Its a balmy -9 her but it supposed to get up to 10 this
afternoon and maybe 20 and a snowstorm Monday. And I love it.
Wouldn't trade it for all the palmetto bugs in Florida.
Excuse me but I've gotta go wax up the skis.

g.c.

Ecclesiastes:3:1

[Wolfgang]

"George Cleveland" > wrote in message
...

> Ecclesiastes:3:1

Ecclesiastes, chapter 3, notable for it's lack of mention of a time to fish,
was almost certainly written by someone living in a desert
community.......or Wisconsin.....in the winter.

Wolfgang
a time to weep. :(

[George Cleveland]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:58:38 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:

>
>"George Cleveland" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Ecclesiastes:3:1
>
>Ecclesiastes, chapter 3, notable for it's lack of mention of a time to fish,
>was almost certainly written by someone living in a desert
>community.......or Wisconsin.....in the winter.
>
>Wolfgang
>a time to weep. :(
>
>
Yes, which only goes to prove the unlikeliness of Divine authorship of the
Bible. But for all its failings, a person must admit that traditional Bible
makers do now how to make a nice book. The one I looked up the chapter and
verse in is bound in supple leather, sewn binding and has that thin soft
paper. Very nice.

g.c.

[slenon]

> Frank Church
> wrote:

>Temp 4 degrees, windchill 20 below zero! Who needs this crap...I'm outta
>here in the AM for central Florida for a few days and I might even wind up
>going further south to who-knows-where. Maybe just far enough till I bitch
>about the heat, then it's time to set up camp and fish!

Boy, did you pick the wrong weekend to bolt south. Clouds and drizzle all
weekend is the forecast.

Actually, waxing XC skis sounds good. Haven't done that for a decade.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[JR]

Wolfgang wrote:
>
> Ecclesiastes, chapter 3, notable for it's lack of mention of a time to fish,

What more poetic reference to C&K/C&R than "....a time to keep, and a
time to cast away"?

JR

[Jeff Miller]

Greg Pavlov wrote:

> but to
> me it's still like "modernizing" Shakespeare:
> the poetry of the language, real or imagined,
> is gone.

....stalked, stomped on, strangled to death, and transmuted by the devout
into a hip-hop memento mori... hell, even mel gibson's gotten into the
game.

[Peter Charles]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:30:01 GMT, (Greg Pavlov)
wrote:

>On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:46:19 GMT,
>(George Cleveland) wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Yeah, yeah. Its a balmy -9 her but it supposed to get up to 10 this
>>afternoon and maybe 20 and a snowstorm Monday. And I love it.
>>Wouldn't trade it for all the palmetto bugs in Florida.
>>Excuse me but I've gotta go wax up the skis.
>>
>
> It's funny: we've had - for Buffalo - cold
> weather, and snow almost every day, and it's
> been a pain, lots of snow-moving and no
> fishing, but last night when I saw the projection
> of some warming starting next Monday (up in
> the low thirties for 3 - 4 days) I was disappointed:
> oh nooo, the snow is going to melt !

Yup, we're screwed until this all clears out.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

[slenon]

Jeff Miller:
>Greg Pavlov wrote:

>> but to
> > me it's still like "modernizing" Shakespeare:
> >the poetry of the language, real or imagined,
> >is gone.

>...stalked, stomped on, strangled to death, and transmuted by the devout
>into a hip-hop memento mori... hell, even mel gibson's gotten into the
>game.

All of which brings up the question of modernization of religious literature
and liturgy.

Does a High Mass have less appeal in the vernacular than it did in Latin?

Does a modern English Bible have the same impact, let alone meaning, in
today's English as in the King James version?

We've largely escaped that question in Judaism as the language, for the most
part, remains the same as it did. Some words and meanings are lost due to
time and distance.

And, no, I'd not prefer modernized Shakespeare.
--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Wolfgang]

"JR" > wrote in message ...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> >
> > Ecclesiastes, chapter 3, notable for it's lack of mention of a time to
fish,
>
> What more poetic reference to C&K/C&R than "....a time to keep, and a
> time to cast away"?

And what better illustration that some disagreements, however vacuous,
simply WILL NOT go away. :)

Wolfgang

[George Cleveland]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:12:48 GMT, "slenon" >
wrote:

>Jeff Miller:
>>Greg Pavlov wrote:
>
>>> but to
>> > me it's still like "modernizing" Shakespeare:
>> >the poetry of the language, real or imagined,
>> >is gone.
>
>>...stalked, stomped on, strangled to death, and transmuted by the devout
>>into a hip-hop memento mori... hell, even mel gibson's gotten into the
>>game.
>
>All of which brings up the question of modernization of religious literature
>and liturgy.
>
>Does a High Mass have less appeal in the vernacular than it did in Latin?
>
>Does a modern English Bible have the same impact, let alone meaning, in
>today's English as in the King James version?
>
>We've largely escaped that question in Judaism as the language, for the most
>part, remains the same as it did. Some words and meanings are lost due to
>time and distance.
>
>And, no, I'd not prefer modernized Shakespeare.
>--
>Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
>Drowning flies to Darkstar

>http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm
>
>
>
Romeo, Romeo, wasssupppp?

g.c.

[slenon]

>Romeo, Romeo, wasssupppp?
>g.c.

Is that attributed to modernization or the really bad beer from St. Louis?

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Big Dale]

wally wrote:>hey frank, if ya don't mind, swing on by and pick me up on the
>way down.
>
>wally... friggin cold here also
>
>

wonder if frank will hook up with our old friend Dana Griffin. Is Dana still in
Gainsville?

Big Dale

[rw]

For all you pussies complaining about how cold and snowy it is, here's a
photo of the Salmon River just downstream from Stanley this afternoon:

http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/DCP_1120.JPG

:-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Kevin Vang]

In article >,
says...
> For all you pussies complaining about how cold and snowy it is, here's a
> photo of the Salmon River just downstream from Stanley this afternoon:
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/DCP_1120.JPG


Hey! That water is still liquid!

Kevin

[Peter Charles]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:46:26 -0600, Kevin Vang >
wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> For all you pussies complaining about how cold and snowy it is, here's a
>> photo of the Salmon River just downstream from Stanley this afternoon:
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/DCP_1120.JPG
>
>
>Hey! That water is still liquid!
>
>Kevin


Exactly, the boy don't get it.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

[daytripper]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:46:26 -0600, Kevin Vang > wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> For all you pussies complaining about how cold and snowy it is, here's a
>> photo of the Salmon River just downstream from Stanley this afternoon:
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/DCP_1120.JPG
>
>
>Hey! That water is still liquid!

Boston Harbor is frozen over. Hell, the freakin' islands (martha's vineyard
and nantucket) were frozen in for a few days until the ice breakers got
through.

THAT is COLD...

/daytripper (Stanley Winters are for wimps ;-)

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 04:02:14 GMT, (Greg Pavlov)
wrote:

>On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:52:23 -0500, Jeff Miller
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Greg Pavlov wrote:
>>
>>> but to
>>> me it's still like "modernizing" Shakespeare:
>>> the poetry of the language, real or imagined,
>>> is gone.
>>
>>...stalked, stomped on, strangled to death, and transmuted by the devout
>>into a hip-hop memento mori... hell, even mel gibson's gotten into the
>>game.
>>
>
> "Because the Lord is my Shepherd, I have everything I need!

Isn't this an ugly case of dumbing down? Bah, indeed!
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

[walt winter]

Big Dale wrote:
> wally wrote:>hey frank, if ya don't mind, swing on by and pick me up on the
>
>>way down.
>>
>>wally... friggin cold here also
>>
>>
>
>
> wonder if frank will hook up with our old friend Dana Griffin. Is Dana still in
> Gainsville?
>
> Big Dale

bd, last i heard he was. man, can dana tie up some bream patterns?

wally

[walt winter]

daytripper wrote:

>
> /daytripper (Stanley Winters are for wimps ;-)


trip, doncha be talkin 'bout 'cuz dat way.

wally

[Lat705]

>>> For all you pussies complaining about how cold and snowy it is, here's a
>>> photo of the Salmon River just downstream from Stanley this afternoon:
>>>

Cold. That's not cold. When I was young we walked to school in weather colder
than that. Five miles. Up hill both ways. No shoes.

Lou T

[Frank Reid]

> Cold. That's not cold. When I was young we walked to school in weather
colder
> than that. Five miles. Up hill both ways. No shoes.

Yeh, it was cold when I went to school. -40 degrees and none of this sissy
snow, it was rain, cold rain. We didn't have these fancy goretex jackets
either. Just t-shirts we cobbled together out of burlap potato bags. Life
in Los Angeles was tough.
--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

[Wolfgang]

> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 04:02:14 GMT, (Greg Pavlov)
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:52:23 -0500, Jeff Miller
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Greg Pavlov wrote:
> >>
> >>> but to
> >>> me it's still like "modernizing" Shakespeare:
> >>> the poetry of the language, real or imagined,
> >>> is gone.
> >>
> >>...stalked, stomped on, strangled to death, and transmuted by the devout
> >>into a hip-hop memento mori... hell, even mel gibson's gotten into the
> >>game.
> >>
> >
> > "Because the Lord is my Shepherd, I have everything I need!
>
> Isn't this an ugly case of dumbing down?

Yes and no. From one point of view the translators who created a series of
English bibles in the middle age which culminated in the great King James
version worked under two more or less opposing constraints. On the one
hand, they were all involved in creating vernacular versions of an already
established canon....dumbing down, if you will, in the interest of greater
accessibility, albeit for reasons (mostly political on national and
international scales) that had little to do with the widespread literacy
among the lay public that we take for granted today. On, the other hand,
this was the word of God they were dealing with and God does not speak like
the man on the street. The language of the KJV which sounds so majestic and
magisterial to today's audience would have struck the parishioners of the
17th century (the vast majority of whom could only hear the words instead of
being able to read them for themselves) in pretty much the same way.

Meanwhile, the language of the KJV and, to a lesser degree, Shakespeare is
still accessible to the competent modern reader, but less and less so with
each succeeding generation as the language and normative social pressures
change. Universal literacy may, as is generally supposed, be a powerful
conservative force, but it has limits. Shakespeare and the KJV are the only
early 17th century works still universally recognized among readers of
English.....due, in part, to the magnificence of their authors' use of the
language. All the others (and there are some good ones) have pretty much
fallen by the wayside for the average reader and are now the province only
of scholars and eccentrics. The works are still good, but they've gotten to
be too much work. Modern translations of the bible have grown out of a
recognition that the KJV was getting to be troublesome, and the supposition
(probably correct) that folks who can't read their bible are likely to slip
toward apostasy. Somewhat ironically, Shakespeare has more successfully
resisted modernization because his acolytes take the holiness of what they
believe to be the original text (it isn't actually....but that's a whole
'nother lecture) more seriously than do those of the KJV.

So, dumbing down? Well, most of us aren't likely to do what it would take
to read Tolstoy, Voltaire, Schiller, Homer, Tacitus, Sun Tzu, Cervantes,
Dante, Kayyam, Chaucer, and the Icelandic Sagas in the original.

That said.....

> Bah, indeed!

Agreed.

Wolfgang

[Wolfgang]

"Frank Reid" <moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf> wrote in message
...
> > Cold. That's not cold. When I was young we walked to school in weather
> colder
> > than that. Five miles. Up hill both ways. No shoes.
>
> Yeh, it was cold when I went to school. -40 degrees and none of this
sissy
> snow, it was rain, cold rain. We didn't have these fancy goretex jackets
> either. Just t-shirts we cobbled together out of burlap potato bags.
Life
> in Los Angeles was tough.

Burlap? You had BURLAP? Fukkin' rich kids! :(

Wolfgang
who never knew that steel wool had uses beyond apparel till his late teens.

[Jeff Miller]

Wolfgang wrote:

>
> So, dumbing down? Well, most of us aren't likely to do what it would take
> to read Tolstoy, Voltaire, Schiller, Homer, Tacitus, Sun Tzu, Cervantes,
> Dante, Kayyam, Chaucer, and the Icelandic Sagas in the original.
>
> That said.....

sometime, when you have time, get cervantes "...quixote..." in three
different english translations (i.e., by 3 different translators) and
compare them. it is amazing how much difference a translator can make
in the construction and translation of the same sentence.

>
>
>>Bah, indeed!
>
>
> Agreed.

damn sheep...

[rb608]

"Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
> sometime, when you have time, get cervantes "...quixote..." in three
> different english translations (i.e., by 3 different translators) and
> compare them. it is amazing how much difference a translator can make
> in the construction and translation of the same sentence.

Although I'm glad to have done it, I admit that even reading it once was a
struggle for me. An enjoyable experience, but a struggle.

Joe F.

[Yuji Sakuma]

Wolfgang,

I have a question for you that is off-topic to this thread but about which
you perhaps have an expert opinion:

It is my impression that angling is in the top two or three sports or
recreations, along with horse racing and hunting , with respect to the
length and breadth of its literary history. I take it that the reason for
this is that these three were pastimes chosen since early times by nobility.
Presumably, in the beginning only the social elite knew how to read and
write. In spite of this, it is also my impression that the only angling
writing that is considered to be a true classic in the broader world of
literature outside of fishing is Walton. Is this true, or is any other
angling book considered to be in the top rank of english literature?

Thanks,

Yuji Sakuma

================================================== ===============
"Wolfgang" > wrote in message
...
>

[riverman]

"Wolfgang" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Frank Reid" <moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf> wrote in message
> ...
> > > Cold. That's not cold. When I was young we walked to school in
weather
> > colder
> > > than that. Five miles. Up hill both ways. No shoes.
> >
> > Yeh, it was cold when I went to school. -40 degrees and none of this
> sissy
> > snow, it was rain, cold rain. We didn't have these fancy goretex
jackets
> > either. Just t-shirts we cobbled together out of burlap potato bags.
> Life
> > in Los Angeles was tough.
>
> Burlap? You had BURLAP? Fukkin' rich kids! :(
>
> Wolfgang
> who never knew that steel wool had uses beyond apparel till his late
teens.

STEEL WOOL?? Sheer LUXURY!
We had to use thread made out of our own BELLY BUTTON LINT, and even then we
only got to wear it on odd numbered tuesdays.

--riverman
And even then, once you got a complete shirt knitted up, you had outgrown
it.

[Jeff Miller]

you read that tome!!?? hell, i just compared sentences...<g>

jeff

rb608 wrote:

> "Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
>
>>sometime, when you have time, get cervantes "...quixote..." in three
>>different english translations (i.e., by 3 different translators) and
>>compare them. it is amazing how much difference a translator can make
>>in the construction and translation of the same sentence.
>
>
> Although I'm glad to have done it, I admit that even reading it once was a
> struggle for me. An enjoyable experience, but a struggle.
>
> Joe F.
>
>

[rb608]

"Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
news:xQ8Tb.14736$fZ6.14034@lakeread06...
> you read that tome!!?? hell, i just compared sentences...<g>

Yes, I did read it once, during a period where I was intent on exposing
myself to "the classics" (for what little good effect that had on me). I
was commuting on public transportation & had *lots* of reading time. I tell
ya, I was impressed as hell you had read it three times. :-)

Joe F.

[Wolfgang]

"rb608" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
> > sometime, when you have time, get cervantes "...quixote..." in three
> > different english translations (i.e., by 3 different translators) and
> > compare them. it is amazing how much difference a translator can make
> > in the construction and translation of the same sentence.
>
> Although I'm glad to have done it, I admit that even reading it once was a
> struggle for me. An enjoyable experience, but a struggle.
>
> Joe F.

I read "Don Quixote" (in English) a long time ago.....twenty years or more.
Aside from the broad outline of the story and a few of the major characters
and incidents, I remember only that it was a delightful experience. I
decided to reread it about a year or two ago. It was dreadful.....I gave up
after about 30 pages. Either my tastes have changed drastically in the
intervening years (a possibility, though it seems extremely unlikely) or I
got hold of a different translation the second time around.

Wolfgang

[Wolfgang]

"riverman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Wolfgang" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Frank Reid" <moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > Cold. That's not cold. When I was young we walked to school in
> weather
> > > colder
> > > > than that. Five miles. Up hill both ways. No shoes.
> > >
> > > Yeh, it was cold when I went to school. -40 degrees and none of this
> > sissy
> > > snow, it was rain, cold rain. We didn't have these fancy goretex
> jackets
> > > either. Just t-shirts we cobbled together out of burlap potato bags.
> > Life
> > > in Los Angeles was tough.
> >
> > Burlap? You had BURLAP? Fukkin' rich kids! :(
> >
> > Wolfgang
> > who never knew that steel wool had uses beyond apparel till his late
> teens.
>
> STEEL WOOL?? Sheer LUXURY!
> We had to use thread made out of our own BELLY BUTTON LINT, and even then
we
> only got to wear it on odd numbered tuesdays.
>
> --riverman
> And even then, once you got a complete shirt knitted up, you had outgrown
> it.

I guess I shouldn't have taken it for granted that everyone would understand
the steel wool was only for winter wear. In the summer it was pretty much
corn oil and sand. :(

Wolfgang
yeah, they were tough years.....but it made us what we are today.

[Lazarus Cooke]

In article >, Yuji Sakuma
> wrote:

> Wolfgang,
>
> I have a question for you that is off-topic to this thread but about which
> you perhaps have an expert opinion:
>
> It is my impression that angling is in the top two or three sports or
> recreations, along with horse racing and hunting , with respect to the
> length and breadth of its literary history. I take it that the reason for
> this is that these three were pastimes chosen since early times by nobility.
> Presumably, in the beginning only the social elite knew how to read and
> write. In spite of this, it is also my impression that the only angling
> writing that is considered to be a true classic in the broader world of
> literature outside of fishing is Walton. Is this true, or is any other
> angling book considered to be in the top rank of english literature?

To mind, one of the greatest novels in the English language is all
about fishing: Moby Dick.

On the Compleat Angler, I'd say that Cotton, as well as being a better
fisherman, is as good a writer.

If I were to throw in really good fishing writing from the British
Isles, I think Arthur Ransome's "Rod and Line" is pretty major stuff.
He of course played chess with Lenin, and married Trotsky's secretary.
The fishing writers of the early twentieth century seem to have been
political fellows: Lord Grey of Falloden, as well as writing one of the
other top contenders, "Fly Fishing", was the British Foreign Minister
at the outbreak of the First World War.

Keeping up the tradition, one of the best recent anthologists of
fishing on this side of the pond is Jeremy Paxman, who is the leading
political interviewer on what used to be the BBC.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[rb608]

"Lazarus Cooke" > wrote in message
> To mind, one of the greatest novels in the English language is all
> about fishing: Moby Dick.

That is one of my favorites as well. I tend toward non-fiction for the most
part; but Melville added so much in the way of historical information, Moby
Dick is probably as good an exposition of the whaling trade as any, as well
as being a damned good story.

Joe F.

[Jeff Miller]

Lazarus Cooke wrote:

>
>
> To mind, one of the greatest novels in the English language is all
> about fishing: Moby Dick.
>
> On the Compleat Angler, I'd say that Cotton, as well as being a better
> fisherman, is as good a writer.

....and here i've been thinkin moby dick and compleat angler were all
about religion and politics ...

btw, walton is supposed to have taken (plagiarized) all his technical
fishing and fly-tying stuff from thomas barker's "arte of angling" and
dame juliana berner's "treatise of fishing with an angle"...

jeff

[rw]

Yuji Sakuma wrote:
> Wolfgang,
>
> I have a question for you that is off-topic to this thread but about which
> you perhaps have an expert opinion:
>
> It is my impression that angling is in the top two or three sports or
> recreations, along with horse racing and hunting , with respect to the
> length and breadth of its literary history. I take it that the reason for
> this is that these three were pastimes chosen since early times by nobility.
> Presumably, in the beginning only the social elite knew how to read and
> write. In spite of this, it is also my impression that the only angling
> writing that is considered to be a true classic in the broader world of
> literature outside of fishing is Walton. Is this true, or is any other
> angling book considered to be in the top rank of english literature?

Is someone other than Wolfgang allowed to respond? :-)

A River Runs Through It (Norman Maclean) is one of the finest modern
novels I've read. IMO, of course. Some flyfishers get ****ed about the
effect the movie had in popularizing flyfishing among the yuppie elite,
but you can't blame Maclean. He wrote a great novel. It could become a
classic -- time will tell. I thought the film was good, too.

On a lesser rank, I'd put the memoir The Longest Silence (Thomas McGuane).

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Wayne Harrison]

"rw" > wrote
http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/DCP_1120.JPG


really nice, steve.

wayno

[Wayne Harrison]

"rw" > wrote

> A River Runs Through It (Norman Maclean) is one of the finest modern
> novels I've read. IMO, of course.

agree. also middleton's "spine of time"..

[Lazarus Cooke]

In article <bhaTb.14757$fZ6.10311@lakeread06>, Jeff Miller
> wrote:

> ...and here i've been thinkin moby dick and compleat angler were all
> about religion and politics ...

In Ireland *everything* is about religion and politics....

:L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[slenon]

>I guess I shouldn't have taken it for granted that everyone would
understand
>the steel wool was only for winter wear. In the summer it was pretty much
>corn oil and sand. :(
>Wolfgang

I'm envious. We had to roll around in the beggar lice patches to get any
type of body covering.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Big Dale]

waldo wrote:>bd, last i heard he was. man, can dana tie up some bream patterns?
>

I have a special box of Psychedelic Spiders for him when I see him in May.

Big Dale

[rb608]

"Wayne Harrison" > wrote in message
> agree. also middleton's "spine of time"..

ditto. Most excellent IMHO.

Joe F.

[Ken Fortenberry]

Wayne Harrison wrote:
> "rw" > wrote
>
>
>>A River Runs Through It (Norman Maclean) is one of the finest modern
>>novels I've read. IMO, of course.
>
>
> agree. also middleton's "spine of time"..

You're both obviously of the "hit me over the head with a sentimental
piece of fluff" school of not-quite literature. In the first place,
_A River Runs Through It_ is not a novel, it's a novella, and as a
work of literature it ranks right up there with _See Spot Run_.

Middleton's _On The Spine Of Time_ is neither a novel nor a novella,
of course, but a memoir. Not that anyone who considers _A River Runs
Through It_ a fine novel would appreciate the difference.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Wolfgang]

"Greg Pavlov" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:36:50 -0600, "Wolfgang" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >I read "Don Quixote" (in English) a long time ago.....twenty years or
more.
> >Aside from the broad outline of the story and a few of the major
characters
> >and incidents, I remember only that it was a delightful experience. I
> >decided to reread it about a year or two ago. It was dreadful.....I gave
up
> >after about 30 pages. Either my tastes have changed drastically in the
> >intervening years (a possibility, though it seems extremely unlikely) or
I
> >got hold of a different translation the second time around.
>
>
> That's happened to me when I've tried reading "classics"
> in the last few years. I started reading people like
> Dickens in elementary school and by the end of my first
> year in college I had read through a good part of the
> "big hits" of western literature...

Maybe you should try a different translation. :)

Perhaps the greatest problem with great literature is that we, collectively,
have allowed "them" to convince us that if we don't like a particular
work....or even a particular writer....it is the result of an inadequacy on
our part, not theirs.

**** 'em.

Wolfgang

[slenon]

>Wolfgang
>oh, and moby dick is NOT about fishing.

In that whales are mammals and not fish, true. However it is a splendid
description of the messy end of the whaling business.

Now, where did I put my copy of "The Seawolf."
--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[rw]

Wayne Harrison wrote:
> "rw" > wrote
> http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/DCP_1120.JPG
>
>
> really nice, steve.
>
> wayno

Thanks. It was just an excuse to post a photo, but everyone seemed to
take it personally. :-)

We're having a superb winter. Both the quantity and the quality of the
snowpack is as good as I've seen it at this time of the year. It
sometimes seems odd to hear people complaining about snow. Here, we pray
for it. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Wolfgang]

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
m...
> Wayne Harrison wrote:
> > "rw" > wrote
> >
> >
> >>A River Runs Through It (Norman Maclean) is one of the finest modern
> >>novels I've read. IMO, of course.
> >
> >
> > agree. also middleton's "spine of time"..
>
> You're both obviously of the "hit me over the head with a sentimental
> piece of fluff" school of not-quite literature. In the first place,
> _A River Runs Through It_ is not a novel, it's a novella, and as a
> work of literature it ranks right up there with _See Spot Run_.
>
> Middleton's _On The Spine Of Time_ is neither a novel nor a novella,
> of course, but a memoir. Not that anyone who considers _A River Runs
> Through It_ a fine novel would appreciate the difference.

I can't quite agree with Steve's assessment of "A River Runs Through It" as
one of the finest....at least not without rereading it and giving the matter
a great deal of thought. That said, I think it IS an excellent work.
Characterizing it, or Middleton's work as nothing more than a sentimental
piece of fluff is not only wrong, but just plain ignorant as well. The
ability to accurately define either work as belonging in a particular
category based on length or genre is about as admirable as it is
astonishing.

Meanwhile, while I find the discussion interesting and agree that all of the
works mentioned are good ones, I don't think any of them meets the criterion
Yuji set. The "broader world of literature outside of fishing" is, I think,
only marginally aware of the either of the works mentioned above. Only time
will tell whether either is destined for greatness in the big show. I
rather doubt it.

Wolfgang
who, incidentally, doesn't believe "ARRTI" had nearly the impact on the
popularity of fly fishing that most seem to.

[a-happy-up-yours]

Wolfgang wrote:
>
> Wolfgang
> oh, and moby dick is NOT about fishing.
>
>

It's about venereal disease,..right?


Tom

[Ken Fortenberry]

Wolfgang wrote:
>
> I can't quite agree with Steve's assessment of "A River Runs Through It" as
> one of the finest....at least not without rereading it and giving the matter
> a great deal of thought. That said, I think it IS an excellent work.

You too, are wrong. It's not "excellent", the best that can be said
of _A River Runs Through It_ as a novella or, if you insist, a novel,
is that it's "workmanlike".

> Characterizing it, or Middleton's work as nothing more than a sentimental
> piece of fluff is not only wrong, but just plain ignorant as well.

For the record, I didn't characterize Middleton's work as anything other
than a memoir, a careful reader could logically assume that by the way I
changed paragraphs right there where I did.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Willi]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

> Wayne Harrison wrote:
>
>> "rw" > wrote
>>
>>
>>> A River Runs Through It (Norman Maclean) is one of the finest modern
>>> novels I've read. IMO, of course.
>>
>>
>>
>> agree. also middleton's "spine of time"..
>
>
> You're both obviously of the "hit me over the head with a sentimental
> piece of fluff" school of not-quite literature. In the first place,
> _A River Runs Through It_ is not a novel, it's a novella, and as a
> work of literature it ranks right up there with _See Spot Run_.
>
> Middleton's _On The Spine Of Time_ is neither a novel nor a novella,
> of course, but a memoir. Not that anyone who considers _A River Runs
> Through It_ a fine novel would appreciate the difference.
>


You're an arrogant hypocrite, but for the life of me I can't see where
you find the basis for the arrogance.

Willi

[Willi]

Wolfgang wrote:

> Perhaps the greatest problem with great literature is that we, collectively,
> have allowed "them" to convince us that if we don't like a particular
> work....or even a particular writer....it is the result of an inadequacy on
> our part, not theirs.
>
> **** 'em.




I'll join you in that, but maybe it's the "convincing" that's our
inadequacy.


That pompous crap that Ken just posted fits right in there.


Willi

[Wolfgang]

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
m...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> >
> > I can't quite agree with Steve's assessment of "A River Runs Through
It" as
> > one of the finest....at least not without rereading it and giving the
matter
> > a great deal of thought. That said, I think it IS an excellent work.
>
> You too, are wrong.

Could be. If you can find any evidence to support that conclusion I'll be
interested in seeing it.

> It's not "excellent",

Oh.

> the best that can be said
> of _A River Runs Through It_ as a novella or, if you insist, a novel,
> is that it's "workmanlike".

If you go back and reread the thread up to this point you will doubtless see
that better has already been said of it. And, for what it's worth, I didn't
insist that it's a novel. I merely mentioned how impressed I am (and I'm
sure I speak for all of ROFF here) with your ability recognize the
distinction. You must be very proud.....espceially after that embarrassing
bruschetta thingy. :)

Anyway, we all recognize that McClean's work is nowhere near as good as your
own, of course, but given where you've set the bar that still leaves a lot
of room for greatness, wouldn't you say? Oh, and how IS that freelance
writing career coming along?

> > Characterizing it, or Middleton's work as nothing more than a
sentimental
> > piece of fluff is not only wrong, but just plain ignorant as well.
>
> For the record, I didn't characterize Middleton's work as anything other
> than a memoir, a careful reader could logically assume that by the way I
> changed paragraphs right there where I did.

Ouch. O.k. :)

Wolfgang
who, apparently, has once again made the mistake of thinking that he knows
what he thinks.

[Wolfgang]

"Willi" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
>
> > Perhaps the greatest problem with great literature is that we,
collectively,
> > have allowed "them" to convince us that if we don't like a particular
> > work....or even a particular writer....it is the result of an inadequacy
on
> > our part, not theirs.
> >
> > **** 'em.
>
>
>
>
> I'll join you in that, but maybe it's the "convincing" that's our
> inadequacy.

Well, the collective "we" is not necessarily all inclusive. :)

But, yeah, it's a good point.

> That pompous crap that Ken just posted fits right in there.

Ah, but that was just sardonic wit designed to draw attention to the
heretofore undisclosed failings of the effete snobs for whom Ken obviously
has nothing but well deserved contempt. Didn't you know? :)

Wolfgang
who, like all'a ya'll, is waiting in breathless anticipation for the
inevitable devastating retaliatory zinger from deep in the heartland.

[George Adams]

>From: (Lat705)

>Cold. That's not cold. When I was young we walked to school in weather
>colder
>than that. Five miles. Up hill both ways. No shoes.

And we loved it! <G>



George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

[Willi]

Wolfgang wrote:


>>
>>
>>
>>I'll join you in that, but maybe it's the "convincing" that's our
>>inadequacy.
>
>
> Well, the collective "we" is not necessarily all inclusive. :)
>
> But, yeah, it's a good point.
>
>
>>That pompous crap that Ken just posted fits right in there.
>
>
> Ah, but that was just sardonic wit designed to draw attention to the
> heretofore undisclosed failings of the effete snobs for whom Ken obviously
> has nothing but well deserved contempt. Didn't you know? :)
>
> Wolfgang
> who, like all'a ya'll, is waiting in breathless anticipation for the
> inevitable devastating retaliatory zinger from deep in the heartland.
>
>

You should be flattered. Ken usually just ignores my comments.

Willi

[Wolfgang]

"Willi" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>I'll join you in that, but maybe it's the "convincing" that's our
> >>inadequacy.
> >
> >
> > Well, the collective "we" is not necessarily all inclusive. :)
> >
> > But, yeah, it's a good point.
> >
> >
> >>That pompous crap that Ken just posted fits right in there.
> >
> >
> > Ah, but that was just sardonic wit designed to draw attention to the
> > heretofore undisclosed failings of the effete snobs for whom Ken
obviously
> > has nothing but well deserved contempt. Didn't you know? :)
> >
> > Wolfgang
> > who, like all'a ya'll, is waiting in breathless anticipation for the
> > inevitable devastating retaliatory zinger from deep in the heartland.
> >
> >
>
> You should be flattered. Ken usually just ignores my comments.

Well, there is any number of possible reasons for that. For example, I
happen to know that the many people who refrain from responding to my
contributions here do so because they can think of absolutely nothing to add
to such brilliant expositions.

You may have more, and bigger, fans than you thought. :)

Wolfgang

[daytripper]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:38:32 -0700, rw >
wrote:

>Wayne Harrison wrote:
>> "rw" > wrote
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/DCP_1120.JPG
>>
>>
>> really nice, steve.
>>
>> wayno
>
>Thanks. It was just an excuse to post a photo, but everyone seemed to
>take it personally. :-)

Aw, hell, son - nothing personal at all. You just stepped on a sore spot.
The survivors officially lived through the coldest January in New England in
recorded history.

But we ain't got **** for snow, so everything looks like winterized crap now.

So it's too damned cold and too damned nasty to shoot pretty "it's cold"
pictures here, that's for sure...

>We're having a superb winter. Both the quantity and the quality of the
>snowpack is as good as I've seen it at this time of the year. It
>sometimes seems odd to hear people complaining about snow. Here, we pray
>for it. :-)

Well, how about we pray you get nailed by the &^%#@*! jetstream - starting
right now?

/daytripper (i'm sure that's the least we can do for a friend in need ;-)

[Danl]

"daytripper" > wrote in message
...

> Aw, hell, son - nothing personal at all. You just stepped on a sore spot.
> The survivors officially lived through the coldest January in New England
in
> recorded history.
>
> But we ain't got **** for snow, so everything looks like winterized crap
now.
>
> So it's too damned cold and too damned nasty to shoot pretty "it's cold"
> pictures here, that's for sure...
>

Hmmm. I don't suppose this would be the appropriate time for my annual gear
review of this season's broad-rimmed hats, sunglasses and sandals,wot? I'll
just shut up until y'all defrost a little.

Danl
But some of you could have come out here to help with the vine pruning this
weekend. Damn sunburn.......

[Wolfgang]

"Danl" > wrote in message
...
>
> ...some of you could have come out here to help with the vine pruning this
> weekend...

Oh sure, NOW you tell me!

Wolfgang
who is about to watch a <gack> football game. :(

[Kevin Vang]

In article >,
says...

> oh, and moby dick is NOT about fishing.
>


No, it's an insufferably long drum solo.

Kevin

[Ken Fortenberry]

Wolfgang wrote:
> ...
> Wolfgang
> who, like all'a ya'll, is waiting in breathless anticipation for the
> inevitable devastating retaliatory zinger from deep in the heartland.

There is little to be gained, beyond the occasional giggle, by trading
barbs with roffian rabble. I mean, it is like SO beneath me, you know ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Wolfgang]

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
m...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> > ...
> > Wolfgang
> > who, like all'a ya'll, is waiting in breathless anticipation for the
> > inevitable devastating retaliatory zinger from deep in the heartland.
>
> There is little to be gained, beyond the occasional giggle, by trading
> barbs with roffian rabble. I mean, it is like SO beneath me, you know ?

5.1

Wolfgang

[Ken Fortenberry]

Wolfgang wrote:
> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
>>
>>There is little to be gained, beyond the occasional giggle, by trading
>>barbs with roffian rabble. I mean, it is like SO beneath me, you know ?
>
> 5.1

Even on a 6 point scale that seems a little low. Did you remember to toss
out the score of the Colorado judge ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

[egildone]

Hey,
Wasn't the KJV a modernization of the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aremaic
scrolls?


--
Ed (remove nospam to reply)
"Wolfgang" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 04:02:14 GMT, (Greg Pavlov)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:52:23 -0500, Jeff Miller
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Greg Pavlov wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> but to
> > >>> me it's still like "modernizing" Shakespeare:
> > >>> the poetry of the language, real or imagined,
> > >>> is gone.
> > >>
> > >>...stalked, stomped on, strangled to death, and transmuted by the
devout
> > >>into a hip-hop memento mori... hell, even mel gibson's gotten into
the
> > >>game.
> > >>
> > >
> > > "Because the Lord is my Shepherd, I have everything I need!
> >
> > Isn't this an ugly case of dumbing down?
>
> Yes and no. From one point of view the translators who created a series
of
> English bibles in the middle age which culminated in the great King James
> version worked under two more or less opposing constraints. On the one
> hand, they were all involved in creating vernacular versions of an already
> established canon....dumbing down, if you will, in the interest of greater
> accessibility, albeit for reasons (mostly political on national and
> international scales) that had little to do with the widespread literacy
> among the lay public that we take for granted today. On, the other hand,
> this was the word of God they were dealing with and God does not speak
like
> the man on the street. The language of the KJV which sounds so majestic
and
> magisterial to today's audience would have struck the parishioners of the
> 17th century (the vast majority of whom could only hear the words instead
of
> being able to read them for themselves) in pretty much the same way.
>
> Meanwhile, the language of the KJV and, to a lesser degree, Shakespeare is
> still accessible to the competent modern reader, but less and less so with
> each succeeding generation as the language and normative social pressures
> change. Universal literacy may, as is generally supposed, be a powerful
> conservative force, but it has limits. Shakespeare and the KJV are the
only
> early 17th century works still universally recognized among readers of
> English.....due, in part, to the magnificence of their authors' use of the
> language. All the others (and there are some good ones) have pretty much
> fallen by the wayside for the average reader and are now the province only
> of scholars and eccentrics. The works are still good, but they've gotten
to
> be too much work. Modern translations of the bible have grown out of a
> recognition that the KJV was getting to be troublesome, and the
supposition
> (probably correct) that folks who can't read their bible are likely to
slip
> toward apostasy. Somewhat ironically, Shakespeare has more successfully
> resisted modernization because his acolytes take the holiness of what they
> believe to be the original text (it isn't actually....but that's a whole
> 'nother lecture) more seriously than do those of the KJV.
>
> So, dumbing down? Well, most of us aren't likely to do what it would take
> to read Tolstoy, Voltaire, Schiller, Homer, Tacitus, Sun Tzu, Cervantes,
> Dante, Kayyam, Chaucer, and the Icelandic Sagas in the original.
>
> That said.....
>
> > Bah, indeed!
>
> Agreed.
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
>

[Tim J.]

"Wolfgang" wrote...
> I happen to know that the many people who refrain from
> responding to my contributions here do so because they can
> think of absolutely nothing to add to such brilliant expositions.

[Wayne Harrison]

"egildone" > wrote > Hey,
> Wasn't the KJV a modernization of the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aremaic
> scrolls?

hilarious. actually, it was the result of one million monkeys typing for
one million years, and tammy baker chose the best combinations.

wayno (darlin, will you make me a drink?)

[Charlie Choc]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:19:21 GMT, "Wayne Harrison"
> wrote:

>
>"egildone" > wrote > Hey,
>> Wasn't the KJV a modernization of the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aremaic
>> scrolls?
>
>hilarious. actually, it was the result of one million monkeys typing for
>one million years, and tammy baker chose the best combinations.
>
>wayno (darlin, will you make me a drink?)
>
I was in a bookstore years ago and heard a clerk ask a woman which
version of the bible she wanted, New American or King James. She
huffed and said of course she wanted the King James version - so she
could read it just like Jesus wrote it.

On an even funnier note, there was a bible offered on eBay a while
back purportedly autographed by Jesus, with the salutation "Keep on
truckin'". <g>
--
Charlie...

[Tim Lysyk]

Wolfgang wrote:
> Well, there is any number of possible reasons for that. For example, I
> happen to know that the many people who refrain from responding to my
> contributions here do so because they can think of absolutely nothing to add
> to such brilliant expositions.

I can't add anything to that.

Tim Lysyk

[Danl]

"Wayne Harrison" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "egildone" > wrote > Hey,
> > Wasn't the KJV a modernization of the original Greek, Hebrew, and
Aremaic
> > scrolls?
>
> hilarious. actually, it was the result of one million monkeys typing for
> one million years, and tammy baker chose the best combinations.
>
> wayno (darlin, will you make me a drink?)


Uh, Wayno, it musta been a lot more monkeys than that cuz we all know the
world is only 6000 years old.

Danl

Btw, did ol' Rev Jim retain the mineral rights to Tammy Fay's face?

[egildone]

A few years ago I joined a bible study felloship group that is open to all
denominations. Another guy joined the same night who was Catholic. We were
using the NIV version of the bible. The second week he came in and told the
discussion leader that that night would be his last because it wasn't what
he expected. Then he said what does King James know about the bible anyway?


--
Ed (remove nospam to reply)
"Charlie Choc" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:19:21 GMT, "Wayne Harrison"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"egildone" > wrote > Hey,
> >> Wasn't the KJV a modernization of the original Greek, Hebrew, and
Aremaic
> >> scrolls?
> >
> >hilarious. actually, it was the result of one million monkeys typing for
> >one million years, and tammy baker chose the best combinations.
> >
> >wayno (darlin, will you make me a drink?)
> >
> I was in a bookstore years ago and heard a clerk ask a woman which
> version of the bible she wanted, New American or King James. She
> huffed and said of course she wanted the King James version - so she
> could read it just like Jesus wrote it.
>
> On an even funnier note, there was a bible offered on eBay a while
> back purportedly autographed by Jesus, with the salutation "Keep on
> truckin'". <g>
> --
> Charlie...

[rb608]

"Danl" > wrote in message
>
> Btw, did ol' Rev Jim retain the mineral rights to Tammy Fay's face?

There was feature with Carrie Fisher this a.m. where she joked that after
Star Wars, George Lucas had such tight ownership of her image, everytime she
looks in the mirror, she has to send Lucas $100. :-)

Joe F.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:59:44 -0600, "Wolfgang" >
wrote:



>> >
>> > "Because the Lord is my Shepherd, I have everything I need!
>>
>> Isn't this an ugly case of dumbing down?
>
>Yes and no. From one point of view the translators who created a series of
>English bibles in the middle age which culminated in the great King James
>version worked under two more or less opposing constraints. On the one
>hand, they were all involved in creating vernacular versions of an already
>established canon....dumbing down, if you will, in the interest of greater
>accessibility, albeit for reasons (mostly political on national and
>international scales)

But while doing that, they made it beautiful. I haven't seen a modern
variation that sings. I think they should have had at least a hip hop
'singer' look it over and read it aloud. And I hate hip hop.

And if you're going to go modern, how about a better metaphor
(simile?) than shepherd? How many people have the foggiest idea of
what a sheep is like or how anyone takes care of them? Almost
everyone in Biblical times knew, as did about everyone in the 17th
century, but who knows now? It means that they have no idea of what
moronic creatures they're being compared to and how much greater the
shepherd is. Or have a clue that he uses wool and eats some mutton...
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

[Danl]

> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:59:44 -0600, "Wolfgang" >
> > And if you're going to go modern, how about a better metaphor
> (simile?) than shepherd? How many people have the foggiest idea of
> what a sheep is like or how anyone takes care of them?

Uh, Cyli, someone from the Nawth Cackalacky contingent will be here to
answer your question shortly.

Danl

[rb608]

> wrote in message
> How many people have the foggiest idea of
> what a sheep is like or how anyone takes care of them?

Me.

Joe F.
(I have seat covers with names. <g>)

[Jeff Miller]

uh...no, the delegation from nc waives consecutive translation, and
yields the floor to the bucky badger diplomat from wisconsin...

jeff (fuk me if i know what anybody means or is sayin... and, fuk me if
i don't ... but, um...i'm not talkin to anybody here, of course)

Danl wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:59:44 -0600, "Wolfgang" >
>>
>>>And if you're going to go modern, how about a better metaphor
>>
>>(simile?) than shepherd? How many people have the foggiest idea of
>>what a sheep is like or how anyone takes care of them?
>
>
> Uh, Cyli, someone from the Nawth Cackalacky contingent will be here to
> answer your question shortly.
>
> Danl
>
>
>
>

[Lat705]

>they were all involved in creating vernacular versions of an already
>>established canon....dumbing down, if you will, in the interest of greater
>>accessibility, albeit for reasons (mostly political on national and
>>international scales)

You heard about the monk who was in the library checking out the rules of the
order in the original language . There was a loud cry that came:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!! It says "CELIBRATE"!!!


Lou T

[George Cleveland]

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:47:05 -0600, "Wolfgang" > wrote:

>
>"Danl" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> ...some of you could have come out here to help with the vine pruning this
>> weekend...
>
>Oh sure, NOW you tell me!
>
>Wolfgang
>who is about to watch a <gack> football game. :(
>
>
Football? Is there a football game on? I thought the season ended weeks
ago.

g.c.

[rw]

Greg Pavlov wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:38:32 -0700, rw
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Thanks. It was just an excuse to post a photo, but everyone seemed to
>>take it personally. :-)
>
>
>
> Nah, posting the photo was just an excuse to take
> a swipe at us easterners and almost-midwesterners.

Well, yes, there's that, too. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

[Wolfgang]

"Greg Pavlov" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:17:58 -0600, "Wolfgang" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Perhaps the greatest problem with great literature is that we,
collectively,
> >have allowed "them" to convince us that if we don't like a particular
> >work....or even a particular writer....it is the result of an inadequacy
on
> >our part, not theirs.
>
>
> That's gone through my mind as well. A good
> example, IMHO: Les Miserables. A little judicious
> editing to shorten it by 200 - 300 pages would
> have been very worthwhile.

I once found a note card between the pages of a second hand book I'd bought.
Someone had written on it. It said, "The covers of this book are too far
apart."--"Classic book review by Ambrose Bierce".

I don't remember what book it was in, so I don't know whether the quote was
intended either by Bierce (I doubt it) or the previous owner to describe the
book in which I found it. It would fit very nicely in many. :)

Wolfgang

[Joe McIntosh]

"Danl" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:59:44 -0600, "Wolfgang" >
> > > And if you're going to go modern, how about a better metaphor
> > (simile?) than shepherd? How many people have the foggiest idea of
> > what a sheep is like or how anyone takes care of them?
>
> Uh, Cyli, someone from the Nawth Cackalacky contingent will be here to
> answer your question shortly.
>
> Danl
>
>Ij allows---I think most of them know more about goats--we even had a yank
down here one time talking about his " Mildred "
>
>