Dandruff flies

[Frank Reid © 2010]

Okay, big hole in my fly box. Realized that all my flies are designed
for Eastern streams. BFF.... Big Friggen Flies. When you tie a
wiggle nymph with two size 8s, you got big flies. However, Western
streams require something a bit finer. Size 18-26 with an occasional
#32 are the primary flies used (though a size 14 pheasant tail will
take a serious fish, just don't tell the locals 'cause they'll tell
you it won't work).
Working with Ed Engle's book "Tying Small Flies." I also have
"Fishing Small Flies." Need to fill up a box with the micro flies
before the end of the Winter.
So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
you use it?
Frank Reid

[Bob[_2_]]

On Nov 20, 8:40*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:
> Okay, big hole in my fly box. *Realized that all my flies are designed
> for Eastern streams. *BFF.... Big Friggen Flies. *When you tie a
> wiggle nymph with two size 8s, you got big flies. *However, Western
> streams require something a bit finer. *Size 18-26 with an occasional
> #32 are the primary flies used (though a size 14 pheasant tail will
> take a serious fish, just don't tell the locals 'cause they'll tell
> you it won't work).
> Working with Ed Engle's book "Tying Small Flies." *I also have
> "Fishing Small Flies." *Need to fill up a box with the micro flies
> before the end of the Winter.
> So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> you use it?
> Frank Reid

Size 20-24 bead head zebra nymph in any good tail water. Often good
for Browns of 20"+. Easy to tie despite the small size - thread body
with a wisp of dubbing behind the tiny bead. As for dries - rarely use
them in those sizes, as I can no longer see them on the water.

[D. LaCourse]

On 2010-11-20 23:40:49 -0500, Frank Reid � 2010 > said:

> Okay, big hole in my fly box. Realized that all my flies are designed
> for Eastern streams. BFF.... Big Friggen Flies. When you tie a
> wiggle nymph with two size 8s, you got big flies. However, Western
> streams require something a bit finer. Size 18-26 with an occasional
> #32 are the primary flies used (though a size 14 pheasant tail will
> take a serious fish, just don't tell the locals 'cause they'll tell
> you it won't work).
> Working with Ed Engle's book "Tying Small Flies." I also have
> "Fishing Small Flies." Need to fill up a box with the micro flies
> before the end of the Winter.
> So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> you use it?
> Frank Reid

Sparkle Caddis, soft hackle nymph, size 20 - 24. Dead drift it in
certain runs on the Rapid and it will catch brookies up to 6 pounds.
Landing them, however, is tougher. It also can be tied as a soft
hackle PT. It is a killer.

dave

[Tom Littleton]

On 11/20/2010 11:40 PM, Frank Reid © 2010 wrote:
> Okay, big hole in my fly box. Realized that all my flies are designed
> for Eastern streams.

You fish Eastern streams in the early season. We use a lot of small
stuff later on in the year.

> So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> you use it?


I have to give you 4.....sorry.

1.Small Mayflies--who ranges of emerger,dun and spinners for two small
bugs: Tricos, and Pseudocleons(very small pale olives).These run #22-26
and can come into use on flatter water on most decent streams here.

2.Adams midges--no wings, just tail,body and hackle. I carry these in
#20-26, and use them in PA limestone creeks from June-October.

3.Griffith Gnats--the perfect mating midge. Most PA streams have midge
hatches from Sept-March. These work well in #20-26. Look for more
aggressive rises, generally in smooth glides, or the top of pools.

4.Thread midges--nothing but a thread body, slight bulge at head, and a
tiny clump of white CDC to spot them on the water. Good fly for fussier
feeders on individual insects. Good on the nastiest small limestoners.

Tom

[george9219]

On Nov 21, 9:27*am, Tom Littleton > wrote:
> On 11/20/2010 11:40 PM, Frank Reid 2010 wrote:
>
> > Okay, big hole in my fly box. *Realized that all my flies are designed
> > for Eastern streams.
>
> You fish Eastern streams in the early season. We use a lot of small
> stuff later on in the year.
>
> > So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> > you use it?
>
> I have to give you 4.....sorry.
>
> 1.Small Mayflies--who ranges of emerger,dun and spinners for two small
> bugs: Tricos, and Pseudocleons(very small pale olives).These run #22-26
> and can come into use on flatter water on most decent streams here.
>
> 2.Adams midges--no wings, just tail,body and hackle. I carry these in
> #20-26, and use them in PA limestone creeks from June-October.
>
> 3.Griffith Gnats--the perfect mating midge. Most PA streams have midge
> hatches from Sept-March. These work well in #20-26. Look for more
> aggressive rises, generally in smooth glides, or the top of pools.
>
> 4.Thread midges--nothing but a thread body, slight bulge at head, and a
> tiny clump of white CDC to spot them on the water. Good fly for fussier
> feeders on individual insects. Good on the nastiest small limestoners.
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom

What Tom said. Also, if you see "sipping" rises and can't see what
they're taking, try your smallest ( mine is #30 on a Tiemco 2488 hook)
Griffith's Gnat. The tiny gnats double as a generic emerger.

[Frank Reid © 2010]

On Nov 20, 10:40*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:
> Okay, big hole in my fly box. *Realized that all my flies are designed
> for Eastern streams. *BFF.... Big Friggen Flies. *When you tie a
> wiggle nymph with two size 8s, you got big flies. *However, Western
> streams require something a bit finer. *Size 18-26 with an occasional
> #32 are the primary flies used (though a size 14 pheasant tail will
> take a serious fish, just don't tell the locals 'cause they'll tell
> you it won't work).
> Working with Ed Engle's book "Tying Small Flies." *I also have
> "Fishing Small Flies." *Need to fill up a box with the micro flies
> before the end of the Winter.
> So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> you use it?
> Frank Reid

Okay, just finding out that my standard fly box (scientific anglers),
doesn't hold these flies well.
What does everyone use to hold these flies (without spending $50 on a
flybox)?
Frank Reid

[Injun Joe]

You guys must be kidding A SIZE30 !!!!! a number9 tippett ?
Reminds me of the story of the guy from texas showing the clerk in
and English fly shop a small Texas size fly he used a 24#
The clerk put his hand under table and came out empty and opened it
toward the guy from texas --" These are the size 36# drys most of my
friends are using !

Had an 80th birthday last week and trying to plan a way to sell my 500
plus brand new professional tied size 16# and below assortment of
flies. Thought I had worked out a big deal buying direct from a
wholesaler !
Hell caught most of my fish on a stimulator or a foam yellow humpy.
Have a good Thansgiving
Joe the Elder

[DaveS]

On Nov 21, 2:51*pm, george9219 > wrote:
> On Nov 21, 9:27*am, Tom Littleton > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 11/20/2010 11:40 PM, Frank Reid 2010 wrote:
>
> > > Okay, big hole in my fly box. *Realized that all my flies are designed
> > > for Eastern streams.
>
> > You fish Eastern streams in the early season. We use a lot of small
> > stuff later on in the year.
>
> > > So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> > > you use it?
>
> > I have to give you 4.....sorry.
>
> > 1.Small Mayflies--who ranges of emerger,dun and spinners for two small
> > bugs: Tricos, and Pseudocleons(very small pale olives).These run #22-26
> > and can come into use on flatter water on most decent streams here.
>
> > 2.Adams midges--no wings, just tail,body and hackle. I carry these in
> > #20-26, and use them in PA limestone creeks from June-October.
>
> > 3.Griffith Gnats--the perfect mating midge. Most PA streams have midge
> > hatches from Sept-March. These work well in #20-26. Look for more
> > aggressive rises, generally in smooth glides, or the top of pools.
>
> > 4.Thread midges--nothing but a thread body, slight bulge at head, and a
> > tiny clump of white CDC to spot them on the water. Good fly for fussier
> > feeders on individual insects. Good on the nastiest small limestoners.
>
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom
>
> What Tom said. Also, if you see "sipping" rises and can't see what
> they're taking, try your smallest ( mine is #30 on a Tiemco 2488 hook)
> Griffith's Gnat. The tiny gnats double as a generic emerger.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Side note: Ive always assumed that the Griffit's Knat was an imitation
of a CLUSTER of hatching midges? Not an individual insect. Any
insights on this/

Dave

[Giles]

On Nov 21, 8:36*pm, DaveS > wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2:51*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 9:27*am, Tom Littleton > wrote:
>
> > > On 11/20/2010 11:40 PM, Frank Reid 2010 wrote:
>
> > > > Okay, big hole in my fly box. *Realized that all my flies are designed
> > > > for Eastern streams.
>
> > > You fish Eastern streams in the early season. We use a lot of small
> > > stuff later on in the year.
>
> > > > So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> > > > you use it?
>
> > > I have to give you 4.....sorry.
>
> > > 1.Small Mayflies--who ranges of emerger,dun and spinners for two small
> > > bugs: Tricos, and Pseudocleons(very small pale olives).These run #22-26
> > > and can come into use on flatter water on most decent streams here.
>
> > > 2.Adams midges--no wings, just tail,body and hackle. I carry these in
> > > #20-26, and use them in PA limestone creeks from June-October.
>
> > > 3.Griffith Gnats--the perfect mating midge. Most PA streams have midge
> > > hatches from Sept-March. These work well in #20-26. Look for more
> > > aggressive rises, generally in smooth glides, or the top of pools.
>
> > > 4.Thread midges--nothing but a thread body, slight bulge at head, and a
> > > tiny clump of white CDC to spot them on the water. Good fly for fussier
> > > feeders on individual insects. Good on the nastiest small limestoners..
>
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom
>
> > What Tom said. Also, if you see "sipping" rises and can't see what
> > they're taking, try your smallest ( mine is #30 on a Tiemco 2488 hook)
> > Griffith's Gnat. The tiny gnats double as a generic emerger.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Side note: Ive always assumed that the Griffit's Knat was an imitation
> of a CLUSTER of hatching midges? Not an individual insect. Any
> insights on this/
>
> Dave

A cluster, yes, according to the conventional wisdom as I've received
it. But not so much hatching as copulating, or trying to, anyway, I
think. And thus quite possibly the origin of a common (if somewhat
indelicate) term that describes, quite literally, what they are doing,
and figuratively any group effort gone awry.* :)

Wolfgang
* like roff, for example.

[Bob[_2_]]

On Nov 21, 2:51*pm, george9219 > wrote:

>
> What Tom said. Also, if you see "sipping" rises and can't see what
> they're taking, try your smallest ( mine is #30 on a Tiemco 2488 hook)
> Griffith's Gnat. The tiny gnats double as a generic emerger.

I'm curious as to your source of Grizzly Hackle for a size 30 hook.
Heck even the peacock herl body called for on a Griffith's Gnat would
likely fill the gap between shank and point.

[Robert from Oz]

Here in the land of Australia all my nymphs are from #14 - 18, dries are
about the same and streamers range from #14 and upwards - and yes they can
be hard to see.

I have 2 Wheatley style compartment hinged fly boxes (bought those as
heirlooms which I use one of), and I have 2 of these which are exactly the
same as far as I can tell. Big difference between a few hundred dollars and
$19.95.
These hold some of my small flies...
http://www.amazon.com/Wheatley-Style-Aluminum-Hinged-Compartments/dp/B002F8CIS2

This one works a treat for flies with micro eyelets made for micro
fishermen!
This is the model...
C & F Midge Threader Fly Box
ID: cf201
And here is a link... http://www.flyworld.com.au/view/c-and-f-design/

What you save on the first can offset the second.. keeps the Minister of
Finance happy.

Hope this helps mate.

Rob.








"Frank Reid © 2010" > wrote in message
...
> Okay, big hole in my fly box. Realized that all my flies are designed
> for Eastern streams. BFF.... Big Friggen Flies. When you tie a
> wiggle nymph with two size 8s, you got big flies. However, Western
> streams require something a bit finer. Size 18-26 with an occasional
> #32 are the primary flies used (though a size 14 pheasant tail will
> take a serious fish, just don't tell the locals 'cause they'll tell
> you it won't work).
> Working with Ed Engle's book "Tying Small Flies." I also have
> "Fishing Small Flies." Need to fill up a box with the micro flies
> before the end of the Winter.
> So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> you use it?
> Frank Reid

[Robert from Oz]

I have 2 Wheatley style compartment hinged fly boxes (bought those as
heirlooms which I use one of), and I have 2 of these which are exactly the
same as far as I can tell. Big difference between a few hundred dollars and
$19.95.
These hold some of my small flies...
http://www.amazon.com/Wheatley-Style-Aluminum-Hinged-Compartments/dp/B002F8CIS2

This one works a treat for flies with micro eyelets made for micro
fishermen!
This is the model...
C & F Midge Threader Fly Box
ID: cf201
And here is a link... http://www.flyworld.com.au/view/c-and-f-design/

The cost of the C & F Midge Threader fly box is well worth a few extra
dollars for the ease of slipping on flies with small eyelets. I was a bit
dubious at first thinking it was a bit of a rort, but it has proven it's
self over and over; to the point where one threader is kept relative free of
flies and gets passed around for others to use.

Rob.












"Frank Reid © 2010" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 20, 10:40 pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:
> Okay, big hole in my fly box. Realized that all my flies are designed
> for Eastern streams. BFF.... Big Friggen Flies. When you tie a
> wiggle nymph with two size 8s, you got big flies. However, Western
> streams require something a bit finer. Size 18-26 with an occasional
> #32 are the primary flies used (though a size 14 pheasant tail will
> take a serious fish, just don't tell the locals 'cause they'll tell
> you it won't work).
> Working with Ed Engle's book "Tying Small Flies." I also have
> "Fishing Small Flies." Need to fill up a box with the micro flies
> before the end of the Winter.
> So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> you use it?
> Frank Reid

Okay, just finding out that my standard fly box (scientific anglers),
doesn't hold these flies well.
What does everyone use to hold these flies (without spending $50 on a
flybox)?
Frank Reid

[Stephen Welsh]

On Nov 22, 5:46*pm, "Robert from Oz" >
wrote:
> Here in the land of Australia all my nymphs are from #14 - 18, dries are
> about the same and streamers range from #14 and upwards - and yes they can
> be hard to see.
>
> [Wheatley C&F recom'n snipped]

> What you save on the first can offset the second.. keeps the Minister of
> Finance happy.
>
> Hope this helps mate.
>
> Rob.
>

Agree with Rob on the C&F, I have 4-5 of them, midge threaders are
great.
Wheatley comes out for Tasmania ... with bigger drys and the like.

Favourite Dandruff: Canon's beard .... a greenwell body, and snowshoe
rabbit foot wing post, on 18-24 is the smallest I go.
The Olive body is good in the quiet bits of rivers I fish.

2nd favourite: CDC #20 or less. Body wrapped CDC, tied in by tip at
tail, wrapped forward and tied back over body and clipped.
Natural dun mostly. Fished over fished over fish in quiet water.


On the GG, Ed Engle wrote a bit about using a muskrat shuck on
them ... again 20 or smaller.
IMO an emerger /stillborn/crashed cluster. Aus. clusters tend to be
sized 14 or even 12 nothing but a grizzle (sometimes black) wrapped
hook clipped to blazes. Ugly. The clusters do get that big on some of
our lakes ... the individuals might be pushing to make a 20.

(BTW: Fly Tyer Winter '97, Sping and Summer '98 has a series of Ed
Engle articles on midges - might be worth a look )


Steve

[Tom Littleton]

On 11/21/2010 6:03 PM, Frank Reid © 2010 wrote:

> Okay, just finding out that my standard fly box (scientific anglers),
> doesn't hold these flies well.
> What does everyone use to hold these flies (without spending $50 on a
> flybox)?
> Frank Reid

hell, any small, plastic compartment box will do. I use a small Cabela's
box, since I have a couple around, but one hardly needs a fancy
solution for this issue.

Tom

[D. LaCourse]

On 2010-11-21 18:03:35 -0500, Frank Reid � 2010 > said:

> On Nov 20, 10:40Â*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:
>> Okay, big hole in my fly box. Â*Realized that all my flies are designed
>> for Eastern streams. Â*BFF.... Big Friggen Flies. Â*When you tie a
>> wiggle nymph with two size 8s, you got big flies. Â*However, Western
>> streams require something a bit finer. Â*Size 18-26 with an occasional
>> #32 are the primary flies used (though a size 14 pheasant tail will
>> take a serious fish, just don't tell the locals 'cause they'll tell
>> you it won't work).
>> Working with Ed Engle's book "Tying Small Flies." Â*I also have
>> "Fishing Small Flies." Â*Need to fill up a box with the micro flies
>> before the end of the Winter.
>> So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
>> you use it?
>> Frank Reid
>
> Okay, just finding out that my standard fly box (scientific anglers),
> doesn't hold these flies well.
> What does everyone use to hold these flies (without spending $50 on a
> flybox)?
> Frank Reid

Beans Ultra Thin fly box
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/1113/0/Relevance/17?feat=1113-GN2

Dave

[DaveS]

On Nov 21, 4:01*pm, Injun Joe > wrote:
> You guys must be kidding *A SIZE30 !!!!! *a number9 tippett ?
> Reminds me of the story of the guy from texas *showing the clerk in
> and English fly shop a small Texas size fly he used a 24#
> The clerk put his hand under table and came out empty and opened it
> toward the guy from texas --" These are the size 36# drys most of my
> friends are using !
>
> Had an 80th birthday last week and trying to plan a way to sell my 500
> plus *brand new professional tied size *16# and below assortment of
> flies. Thought I had worked out a big deal *buying direct from a
> wholesaler !
> Hell caught most of my fish on a stimulator or a foam yellow humpy.
> Have a good Thansgiving
> Joe the Elder

I am with you on the #30s Can't even concieve of how i would tie it
on. But then i guess I need one of those threaders.

On Franks question . . . I just use the compartments on a Perrine box
for my little flies, and take pains to keep it out of the wind. The
plus is that the bottom hackle spikes don't get mauled, but sorting it
out in the compartment is awkward.

All this talk about small stuff is making me reconsider my normal
practice, and maybe justify getting a lighter rod. Yeah, that's the
ticket . . . I NEED a new rod. Yeah. And a new reel too, dambit!

Dave

Dave

[jeff]

On 11/21/2010 7:01 PM, Injun Joe wrote:
> You guys must be kidding A SIZE30 !!!!! a number9 tippett ?
> Reminds me of the story of the guy from texas showing the clerk in
> and English fly shop a small Texas size fly he used a 24#
> The clerk put his hand under table and came out empty and opened it
> toward the guy from texas --" These are the size 36# drys most of my
> friends are using !
>
> Had an 80th birthday last week and trying to plan a way to sell my 500
> plus brand new professional tied size 16# and below assortment of
> flies. Thought I had worked out a big deal buying direct from a
> wholesaler !
> Hell caught most of my fish on a stimulator or a foam yellow humpy.
> Have a good Thansgiving
> Joe the Elder
>
>

heck joe, if you get rid of those flies, what will you fish with the
next 20 years of our adventures together. i figure at 100, i might be
able to keep up with you and a day of your interests...course, i'll be
80, and that's 120 in joe-years.

jeff

[Tom Littleton]

On 11/22/2010 1:55 PM, DaveS wrote:

> All this talk about small stuff is making me reconsider my normal
> practice, and maybe justify getting a lighter rod. Yeah, that's the
> ticket . . . I NEED a new rod. Yeah. And a new reel too, dambit!
>
there ya go! That's the spirit that keeps this sport alive(or, at least
the tackle purveyors!)

Tom

[george9219]

On Nov 22, 1:32*am, Bob > wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2:51*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
>
>
> > What Tom said. Also, if you see "sipping" rises and can't see what
> > they're taking, try your smallest ( mine is #30 on a Tiemco 2488 hook)
> > Griffith's Gnat. The tiny gnats double as a generic emerger.
>
> I'm curious as to your source of Grizzly Hackle for a size 30 hook.
> Heck even the peacock herl body called for on a Griffith's Gnat would
> likely fill the gap between shank and point.

There is a fly show every year in Marlborough, MA. There is one dealer
who has two full barrels of necks, one dry, and one wet. I spend time
going through the dry barrel, and generally come up with some small
hackle. This year I scored what appears to be a bantam neck that has a
number of tiny feathers, and a patch that has quite a few, They set me
back a total of $43. Also, for the #28 and #30, I use Tiemco #2488
hooks, which have a wide gap, and can accommodate a slightly larger
hackle.

[Giles]

On Nov 22, 4:33*pm, jeff > wrote:
> On 11/21/2010 7:01 PM, Injun Joe wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > You guys must be kidding *A SIZE30 !!!!! *a number9 tippett ?
> > Reminds me of the story of the guy from texas *showing the clerk in
> > and English fly shop a small Texas size fly he used a 24#
> > The clerk put his hand under table and came out empty and opened it
> > toward the guy from texas --" These are the size 36# drys most of my
> > friends are using !
>
> > Had an 80th birthday last week and trying to plan a way to sell my 500
> > plus *brand new professional tied size *16# and below assortment of
> > flies. Thought I had worked out a big deal *buying direct from a
> > wholesaler !
> > Hell caught most of my fish on a stimulator or a foam yellow humpy.
> > Have a good Thansgiving
> > Joe the Elder
>
> heck joe, if you get rid of those flies, what will you fish with the
> next 20 years of our adventures together. i figure at 100, i might be
> able to keep up with you and a day of your interests...course, i'll be
> 80, and that's 120 in joe-years.
>
> jeff

Hm.....calculus. I never did believe that **** would do me any good
in high school.....and flunked it twice in college. :(

giles
who, looking on the bright side, is pleased that he was, for once in
his misspent scholastic life, indisputably right. :)

[george9219]

On Nov 21, 9:36*pm, DaveS > wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2:51*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 9:27*am, Tom Littleton > wrote:
>
> > > On 11/20/2010 11:40 PM, Frank Reid 2010 wrote:
>
> > > > Okay, big hole in my fly box. *Realized that all my flies are designed
> > > > for Eastern streams.
>
> > > You fish Eastern streams in the early season. We use a lot of small
> > > stuff later on in the year.
>
> > > > So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> > > > you use it?
>
> > > I have to give you 4.....sorry.
>
> > > 1.Small Mayflies--who ranges of emerger,dun and spinners for two small
> > > bugs: Tricos, and Pseudocleons(very small pale olives).These run #22-26
> > > and can come into use on flatter water on most decent streams here.
>
> > > 2.Adams midges--no wings, just tail,body and hackle. I carry these in
> > > #20-26, and use them in PA limestone creeks from June-October.
>
> > > 3.Griffith Gnats--the perfect mating midge. Most PA streams have midge
> > > hatches from Sept-March. These work well in #20-26. Look for more
> > > aggressive rises, generally in smooth glides, or the top of pools.
>
> > > 4.Thread midges--nothing but a thread body, slight bulge at head, and a
> > > tiny clump of white CDC to spot them on the water. Good fly for fussier
> > > feeders on individual insects. Good on the nastiest small limestoners..
>
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom
>
> > What Tom said. Also, if you see "sipping" rises and can't see what
> > they're taking, try your smallest ( mine is #30 on a Tiemco 2488 hook)
> > Griffith's Gnat. The tiny gnats double as a generic emerger.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Side note: Ive always assumed that the Griffit's Knat was an imitation
> of a CLUSTER of hatching midges? Not an individual insect. Any
> insights on this/
>
> Dave

The larger gnats imitate mating clusters, but the tiny ones, (#28 &
#30), work very well, (for me at least), as emergers. I'm tying these
on the Tiemco #2488, which is a short shank wide gap hook, and these
things are TINY. No way they are being taken as a cluster fly. As to
fly boxes, any small one will do. I carry a pair of tweezers to handle
the flies.. For tippet, I generally use 7X. Last week, I dropped down
to 8X for the first time in two years. These fish are getting really
picky. I generally fish down and across, and use a 3WT rod with a soft
tip. Also, I carry a fine needle to make sure the eye of the fly is
clear. A stray fiber from hackle or cdc in the wrong place will give
you fits trying to thread the fine tippet through the eye.

[Giles]

On Nov 21, 5:03*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:


> Okay, just finding out that my standard fly box (scientific anglers),
> doesn't hold these flies well.
> What does everyone use to hold these flies (without spending $50 on a
> flybox)?

Fuji (translucent), NOT Kodak (as opaque as one could reasonably wish
for) 35 mm film canisters, neither of which is truly waterproof at a
great deal more than nostril depth.......but does that really matter
all that much?

Cost? Well, very cheap or very dear.....depends.....back in the day.
Today? Well, how much does it matter?

giles
who doutbless still has a few of each floating (heh, heh) around
somewhere undiscovered after the most recent (which is to say, VERY!)
move.....but can no more locate any of them with anything resembling
precision than he can his pneumatic tools, hair clipper, books,
kitchen tools, electrical gadgets, birth certificate, duct tape, or
pressure cookers. :(

[Giles]

On Nov 22, 9:00*pm, george9219 > wrote:

> A stray fiber from hackle or cdc in the wrong place will give
> you fits trying to thread the fine tippet through the eye.

Not to mention head cement, which makes penetration (however slight)
problematic.....to say the least.

giles
hm.....come to think of it, not all that bad a rape defense.

[Giles]

On Nov 22, 8:47*pm, george9219 > wrote:

> There is a fly show every year in Marlborough, MA. There is one dealer
> who has two full barrels of necks, one dry, and one wet. I spend time
> going through the dry barrel, and generally come up with some small
> hackle. This year I scored what appears to be a bantam neck that has a
> number of tiny feathers, and a patch that has quite a few,....

The contents of the other barrel, if drained, separated, spread out in
a nice sunny asphalt parking lot on a clear, bright, breezy autumn day
(for a few hours) and then lightly brushed, will often yield similar
results.

giles
trust me on this one.....i've done it.

[Larry L[_2_]]

..
> So, the question is, what is your favorite dandruff fly and where do
> you use it?


I fished #24s almost exclusively the last part of Sept and early
Oct .... although each day also provided a time for bigger patterns
too, thank goodness. Mainly this was fishing baetis ties at Silver
Creek. Favorite? a ModelA emerger ala Harrop ( think floating
nymph ) .... CDC Sparkle duns are good, too


At the same time of year ( early and late ) the midges are very
important and I like a Raccoon for a dry ... for tiny ones I use micro
zelon for the shuck, instead of the original materials.

Tricos are an obvious answer to your question earlier in the year and
the cute little buggers rule some places in August .... you'll want
nymphs, duns and spinners, maybe a couple/three patterns of each,
tricos can make fish VERY selective where they hatch in large
numbers ... where I fish they run #22s ....ah, generally .... but come
prepared for smaller and don't be afraid to try a size "too big" ...
every little bit helps when fishing tiny

The various string nymphs, with slight variations, are good for all
small bugs, not just midges .... I find that making the segmentation
a bit cartooned, more obvious that the naturals, usually is a good
plan, but real "bright" not one

Luckily, small flies don't have to be very detailed to work well

TroutHunter's new 6.5X tippet really is worth checking out ...


IF anyone really has an "answer" for the late season ( I don't see
this species early ) baetis that crawl all over you, lay eggs on your
waders, and every fish pods up and feeds, apparently on drowned
spinners, but NOT really on the surface, .... let us know. I
can catch "some" fish at these times but I've never met anyone that
felt he had really found the "solution" to this hour or two each Fall
day on a couple waters I frequent. Towards the end of the Trico's
season they would hatch/fall a little before this baetis spinner
activity. I could usually catch fish on the Tricos at a reasonable
rate but when they switched the rate dropped to "feels like luck."
During the true baetis emergence I'd also do just fine.

It was very frustrating. I even went to the point of calling a
'famous' angler who talks and writes a good "baetis game." and asking
advice .... to no avail .... I was told "you need a good drift" which
is obvious but when I explained I could catch the exact same fish in
the same spots and on equally tiny flies EXCEPT during this "baetis
crawling on me" time the reply was "try a beetle" THAT, IMHO, is a
guides answer,not an anglers answer ... I don't just want to catch the
fish, I want to solve the problem. I've seen and tried a couple
"sparkle wing" wet flies and such mentioned in books relative to egg
laying baetis .. but I'm still looking for a pattern that really
meets this situation. OH, I get into these at Silver Creek and I
have zero idea about exact species and such ... they are small #24s -
#26



Boxes? I use little Morrel (sp?) foam boxes that close with a
magnet ... the foam they use seems to hang onto tiny barbless hooks
pretty well .... I use C&F for everything down to #20, but below that
I don't like them

[Larry L[_2_]]

On Nov 20, 8:40*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:
> Okay, big hole in my fly box. *Realized that all my flies are designed
> for Eastern streams. *BFF.... Big Friggen Flies. *When you tie a
> wiggle nymph with two size 8s, you got big flies. *However, Western
> streams require something a bit finer. *Size 18-26 with an occasional
> #32 are the primary flies used (though a size 14 pheasant tail will
> take a serious fish, just don't tell the locals 'cause they'll tell
> you it won't work).

Um, I've never met an experienced western 'local' that would tell you
a #14 PT won't work .... many times something else might work better,
though <G> And, I, personally have caught fish on #28s just to say I
did it, but #26s are the smallest I've ever found a "real" use for ...
i.e. matching a hatch that needed matching to catch trout
systematically

BTW, has anyone tried this stuff for tiny flies .... thinking of
ordering some

http://tinyurl.com/2alpta2


one last thought ... I know how tempting winter tying can be, BUT,
IME you really need to work from a real bug as your model to make a
serious difference in success level and it is very easy to end up with
dozens of flies that looked good to the tier in Dec but not the trout
in April. Often it's just a slight profile difference or size
difference or ( wish Willi was still here to tell me I'm wrong :-
( ... color difference, from the pattern in the book that makes a
improvement.

One thing I've started doing .... when I have a hard time fooling
trout ... is making sure to pump the throat of any fish big enough I
luck into. This has been VERY educational. It is amazing how
often these fish proved to be very, very selective and everything
recently eaten looked identical. I'm prone to the "over technical"
approach to FFing, but even I have been surprised at just HOW
identical most of the recently eaten things often is in such
samples. Measure, get a feel for color, and profile, tie that
evening and come back to the same place, same time, next day ... it
can be a rewarding experience, not just in numbers but satisfaction.
After all, FFing is just a game and .... just as making a basket
without hitting the rim IS better than just making a basket ...
getting a take that looks identical to the ones to naturals IS better
than a splashy, nervous, one to a beetle or something ( IMHO ) even
though they both "score the same points" in the numbers world.

[Frank Reid © 2010]

On Nov 23, 11:40*am, Larry L > wrote:
> On Nov 20, 8:40*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:
>
> > Okay, big hole in my fly box. *Realized that all my flies are designed
> > for Eastern streams. *BFF.... Big Friggen Flies. *When you tie a
> > wiggle nymph with two size 8s, you got big flies. *However, Western
> > streams require something a bit finer. *Size 18-26 with an occasional
> > #32 are the primary flies used (though a size 14 pheasant tail will
> > take a serious fish, just don't tell the locals 'cause they'll tell
> > you it won't work).
>
> Um, I've never met an experienced western *'local' that would tell you
> a #14 PT won't work .... many times something else might work better,
> though <G> * And, I, personally have caught fish on #28s just to say I
> did it, but #26s are the smallest I've ever found a "real" use for ...
> i.e. matching a hatch that needed matching to catch trout
> systematically
>
> BTW, has anyone tried this stuff for tiny flies .... thinking of
> ordering some
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2alpta2
>
> one last thought ... I know how tempting winter tying can be, BUT,
> IME * you really need to work from a real bug as your model to make a
> serious difference in success level and it is very easy to end up with
> dozens of flies that looked good to the tier in Dec but not the trout
> in April. * Often it's just a slight profile difference or size
> difference or ( wish Willi was still here to tell me I'm wrong :-
> ( *... color difference, *from the pattern in the book that makes a
> improvement.
>
> One thing I've started doing *.... when I have a hard time fooling
> trout ... is making sure to pump the throat of any fish big enough I
> luck into. * *This has been VERY educational. * It is amazing how
> often these fish proved to be very, very selective and everything
> recently eaten looked identical. * I'm prone to the "over technical"
> approach to FFing, but even I have been surprised at just HOW
> identical most of the recently eaten things often is in such
> samples. * Measure, get a feel for color, and profile, tie that
> evening and come back to the same place, same time, next day ... it
> can be a rewarding experience, not just in numbers but satisfaction.
> After all, FFing *is just a game and .... just as making a basket
> without hitting the rim IS better than just making a basket ...
> getting a take that looks identical to the ones to naturals IS better
> than a splashy, nervous, one to a beetle or something ( IMHO ) even
> though they both "score the same points" in the numbers world.

According to this, the Benecchi 12/0 is equivalent to 70 denier.
Looking for some of that 40 denier myself.
http://mvff.tripod.com/Reference/Denier.pdf
Frank Reid

[george9219]

On Nov 22, 10:18*pm, Giles > wrote:
> On Nov 22, 9:00*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
> > A stray fiber from hackle or cdc in the wrong place will give
> > you fits trying to thread the fine tippet through the eye.
>
> Not to mention head cement, which makes penetration (however slight)
> problematic.....to say the least.
>
> giles
> hm.....come to think of it, not all that bad a rape defense.

I never use head cement on dry flies, especially the tiny ones.

[Giles]

On Nov 23, 3:16*pm, george9219 > wrote:
> On Nov 22, 10:18*pm, Giles > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 22, 9:00*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
> > > A stray fiber from hackle or cdc in the wrong place will give
> > > you fits trying to thread the fine tippet through the eye.
>
> > Not to mention head cement, which makes penetration (however slight)
> > problematic.....to say the least.
>
> > giles
> > hm.....come to think of it, not all that bad a rape defense.
>
> I never use head cement on dry flies, especially the tiny ones.

Quite a few others here have said the same. Personally, I've never
been able to master the knack of tying heads that would not unravel
without cement.

giles

[Frank Reid © 2010]

On Nov 23, 3:40*pm, Giles > wrote:
> On Nov 23, 3:16*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 22, 10:18*pm, Giles > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 22, 9:00*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
> > > > A stray fiber from hackle or cdc in the wrong place will give
> > > > you fits trying to thread the fine tippet through the eye.
>
> > > Not to mention head cement, which makes penetration (however slight)
> > > problematic.....to say the least.
>
> > > giles
> > > hm.....come to think of it, not all that bad a rape defense.
>
> > I never use head cement on dry flies, especially the tiny ones.
>
> Quite a few others here have said the same. *Personally, I've never
> been able to master the knack of tying heads that would not unravel
> without cement.
>
> giles

http://books.google.com/books?id=Moe9UglHq0MC&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=pine+rosin+beeswax+fly+tying&source=bl&ots=w9fBTzRnBP&sig=uJ8a2g5dO1rNt2lFs9PYCNcy9oY&hl=en&ei=fDfsTOmWMMK88gaNnKygAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=pine%20rosin%20beeswax%20fly%20tying&f=false

This was the stuff (the beeswax, rosin and castor oil mix) recommended
by Mark Van Patten on the Tying Bench. Don't use head cement/Sally
Hansens anymore. This stuff rubbed on the thread before you whip
finish the fly seems to do the trick. Secondarily, it doesn't clog up
the eye of the fly nor does it interfere with the hackle. Love the
stuff.
Frank Reid

[Giles]

On Nov 23, 3:55*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:
> On Nov 23, 3:40*pm, Giles > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 23, 3:16*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 22, 10:18*pm, Giles > wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 22, 9:00*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
> > > > > A stray fiber from hackle or cdc in the wrong place will give
> > > > > you fits trying to thread the fine tippet through the eye.
>
> > > > Not to mention head cement, which makes penetration (however slight)
> > > > problematic.....to say the least.
>
> > > > giles
> > > > hm.....come to think of it, not all that bad a rape defense.
>
> > > I never use head cement on dry flies, especially the tiny ones.
>
> > Quite a few others here have said the same. *Personally, I've never
> > been able to master the knack of tying heads that would not unravel
> > without cement.
>
> > giles
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Moe9UglHq0MC&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=pin...
>
> This was the stuff (the beeswax, rosin and castor oil mix) recommended
> by Mark Van Patten on the Tying Bench. *Don't use head cement/Sally
> Hansens anymore. *This stuff rubbed on the thread before you whip
> finish the fly seems to do the trick. *Secondarily, it doesn't clog up
> the eye of the fly nor does it interfere with the hackle. *Love the
> stuff.
> Frank Reid

I haven't done much fly tying in the past three or four years, and the
next year promises virtually none. After that, who knows. You may
one day see a thread asking hey, what was that replacement for head
cement?

Thanks, Frank.

giles

[Frank Reid © 2010]

On Nov 23, 5:00*pm, Giles > wrote:
> On Nov 23, 3:55*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 23, 3:40*pm, Giles > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 23, 3:16*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 22, 10:18*pm, Giles > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Nov 22, 9:00*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
> > > > > > A stray fiber from hackle or cdc in the wrong place will give
> > > > > > you fits trying to thread the fine tippet through the eye.
>
> > > > > Not to mention head cement, which makes penetration (however slight)
> > > > > problematic.....to say the least.
>
> > > > > giles
> > > > > hm.....come to think of it, not all that bad a rape defense.
>
> > > > I never use head cement on dry flies, especially the tiny ones.
>
> > > Quite a few others here have said the same. *Personally, I've never
> > > been able to master the knack of tying heads that would not unravel
> > > without cement.
>
> > > giles
>
> >http://books.google.com/books?id=Moe9UglHq0MC&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=pin...
>
> > This was the stuff (the beeswax, rosin and castor oil mix) recommended
> > by Mark Van Patten on the Tying Bench. *Don't use head cement/Sally
> > Hansens anymore. *This stuff rubbed on the thread before you whip
> > finish the fly seems to do the trick. *Secondarily, it doesn't clog up
> > the eye of the fly nor does it interfere with the hackle. *Love the
> > stuff.
> > Frank Reid
>
> I haven't done much fly tying in the past three or four years, and the
> next year promises virtually none. *After that, who knows. *You may
> one day see a thread asking hey, what was that replacement for head
> cement?
>
> Thanks, Frank.
>
> giles- Hide quoted text -

You did, however, tie up a nice passel of Pass Lakes that got me
through August in the Driftless Area. And I thank you for that.
Frank Reid
(who is tying up a bunch of size 26 Pass Lakes, not that anyone would
ever notice. Really, they look like friggen belly button lint. You
wouldn't even see them. I''ve picked more stuff off my sweater. How
the hell does a fish see these things amoung all the other crap
floating down the stream? What the hell have I gotten myself into?
I''m trying to do stacked-wing salmon flies on #28 hooks. I'm
planning a hunting mission to Sierra Vista to get some humming bird
skins. I'm gonna be sharing a cell with Ed Rist by Xmas.)

[Giles]

On Nov 23, 5:19*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:

> You did, however, tie up a nice passel of Pass Lakes that got me
> through August in the Driftless Area. *And I thank you for that.

De nada.

> Frank Reid
> (who is tying up a bunch of size 26 Pass Lakes, not that anyone would
> ever notice. *Really, they look like friggen belly button lint. *You
> wouldn't even see them. I''ve picked more stuff off my sweater. *How
> the hell does a fish see these things amoung all the other crap
> floating down the stream? *What the hell have I gotten myself into?

Never tied one smaller than a 16 myself. Given that the Pass Lake
looks like nothing that has ever live in, on, or near a lake or stream
anywhere in North America (as far as I've been able to determine), the
point of the exercise has never been to match a hatch, but rather to
offer up something like the piscine equivalent of a Big Mac; something
that may or may not be particularly good, but might as well try it.
Thus, bigger is better.....up to a certain point.....never did much
good with 'em bigger than a 10 either. 12s and especially 14s are
just right.* White Castle, too small. 2 lb. behemoths offered by
Joebob's bar and grill, too big. Big Mac......just right! :)

> I''m trying to do stacked-wing salmon flies on #28 hooks.

I'd go for the short stack in that case. With real maple syrup,
please.

> I'm
> planning a hunting mission to Sierra Vista to get some humming bird
> skins.

Probably better off tying the whole bird to a big hook and hunting for
big browns.

> I'm gonna be sharing a cell with Ed Rist by Xmas.)

Should have plenty of time to tie up a good supply for next season.

giles
*who once hooked (and lost his bug to) a trout in a pool below the
bridge where he parked somewhere on the pigeon.....or maybe it was the
onion.....in sheboygan county, on his first cast. worked downstream
and then back up for an hour or so. one last cast, a size 14 pass
lake, just like the one he lost on that first cast. fish took the
bug. a minute later the fish was in hand. removed the bug from its
lip. also removed the one it stole an hour earlier.

[Frank Reid © 2010]

Best books for dandruff flies? As I mentioned, I'm using Ed Engle's
book "Tying Small Flies." Any others you like?
Frank Reid

[george9219]

On Nov 23, 4:40*pm, Giles > wrote:
> On Nov 23, 3:16*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 22, 10:18*pm, Giles > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 22, 9:00*pm, george9219 > wrote:
>
> > > > A stray fiber from hackle or cdc in the wrong place will give
> > > > you fits trying to thread the fine tippet through the eye.
>
> > > Not to mention head cement, which makes penetration (however slight)
> > > problematic.....to say the least.
>
> > > giles
> > > hm.....come to think of it, not all that bad a rape defense.
>
> > I never use head cement on dry flies, especially the tiny ones.
>
> Quite a few others here have said the same. *Personally, I've never
> been able to master the knack of tying heads that would not unravel
> without cement.
>
> giles

Double whip finish on the larger ones, single (5 turns) on the midges.
The larger ones hold together forever, and, generally, the midges are
destroyed before the head unravels.

[george9219]

On Nov 23, 8:46*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:
> Best books for dandruff flies? *As I mentioned, I'm using Ed Engle's
> book "Tying Small Flies." *Any others you like?
> Frank Reid

Tiemco #2488

[Frank Reid © 2010]

On Nov 23, 8:47*pm, george9219 > wrote:
> On Nov 23, 8:46*pm, Frank Reid © 2010 > wrote:
>
> > Best books for dandruff flies? *As I mentioned, I'm using Ed Engle's
> > book "Tying Small Flies." *Any others you like?
> > Frank Reid
>
> Tiemco #2488

Books...

[Larry L[_2_]]

all Flies." *Any others you like?
> > Frank Reid
>
> Tiemco #2488





the TMC 2488H (heavy) is good for tiny nymphs

the TMC 206BL is very good for small drys, IMHO ... but I mostly use
TMC 100BL 'cause I can get them easy

Book specifically for tiny weenies? got me, sorry Only recent one
( older tiny weenie books thought an 18 was tiny ) I know of is "Midge
Magic" .... if you can say "string midge" you have read it <G> ( but
the main material suggested ... DMC embroidery yarn .... IS pretty
good stuff and available in about 1/2 zillion colors )

[Frank Reid © 2010]

On Nov 23, 9:55*pm, Larry L > wrote:
> all Flies." *Any others you like?
>
> > > Frank Reid
>
> > Tiemco #2488
>
> the TMC 2488H (heavy) is good for tiny nymphs
>
> the TMC 206BL is very good for small drys, IMHO ... but I mostly use
> TMC 100BL * 'cause I can get them easy
>
> Book specifically for tiny weenies? * got me, sorry * *Only recent one
> ( older tiny weenie books thought an 18 was tiny ) I know of is "Midge
> Magic" * .... if you can say "string midge" you have read it <G> ( but
> the main material suggested ... DMC embroidery yarn .... IS pretty
> good stuff and available in about 1/2 zillion colors )

And my bride has every single color but no longer does embroidery.
Hmmm....
Frank Reid

[Robert from Oz]

DMC embroidery yarn .... IS pretty
> good stuff and available in about 1/2 zillion colors )

And my bride has every single color but no longer does embroidery.
Hmmm....
Frank Reid


You're brave Frank!

Rob.

[Tom Littleton]

On 11/23/2010 10:16 PM, Frank Reid © 2010 wrote:
> On Nov 23, 8:47 pm, > wrote:
>> On Nov 23, 8:46 pm, Frank Reid © > wrote:
>>
>>> Best books for dandruff flies? As I mentioned, I'm using Ed Engle's
>>> book "Tying Small Flies." Any others you like?
>>> Frank Reid
>>
>> Tiemco #2488
>
> Books...

aging can be a humorous process<g>

Tom

[george9219]

On Nov 24, 8:43*am, Tom Littleton > wrote:
> On 11/23/2010 10:16 PM, Frank Reid © 2010 wrote:
>
> > On Nov 23, 8:47 pm, > *wrote:
> >> On Nov 23, 8:46 pm, Frank Reid © > *wrote:
>
> >>> Best books for dandruff flies? *As I mentioned, I'm using Ed Engle's
> >>> book "Tying Small Flies." *Any others you like?
> >>> Frank Reid
>
> >> Tiemco #2488
>
> > Books...
>
> aging can be a humorous process<g>
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Tom

Tell me about it! I can tie and fish #30 flies, but I can't read a
computer screen. Selective vision, I guess....kind of like the
selective hearing I have developed when my wife is talking to me ;-)

[Larry L[_2_]]

>
> And my bride has every single color but no longer does embroidery.
> Hmmm....


Might be worth the risk

I've poo-pooed the book a couple times here, but it actually gave me
some good Ideas and his approach to collecting and matching midges is
impressive

I make a couple floating nymphs using partridge (or similar) for
tails and legs ( beard style) two shades of DMC for a segmented body,
a loop tied CDC wing case/ wing, and two shades of zelon dubbing mixed
for thorax Absolutely nothing new here in concept but the abdomens
look very nice with the slightly different color segments, and they
fish well Often, on the hard fished waters I seem to frequent, the
trick is to produce something that looks like the bug but different
from the other patterns that look like the same bug ...


I also use the stuff for midge pupa and other totally subsurface
nymphs

Um, speaking of totally subsurface...or not. THE single thing I'd
most like to master is the ability to fish small to tiny half-in the
film ... or better yet, just under it ala a real midge hanging down
trying to work through that barrier ( or one of my crawling baetis
spinners stuck there ?) .... none of the techniques and/or ties I've
tried really does the job .. consistently It's pretty simple to get
half-in half-out "float" at size #14 ... even 16, but with tiny ties,
no. Anyone got ideas, I got ears.

[Frank Reid © 2010]

On Nov 24, 1:07*pm, Larry L > wrote:
> > And my bride has every single color but no longer does embroidery.
> > Hmmm....
>
> Might be worth the risk
>
> I've poo-pooed the book a couple times here, but it actually gave me
> some good Ideas and his approach to collecting and matching midges is
> impressive
>
> I make a couple floating nymphs using partridge (or similar) *for
> tails and legs ( beard style) two shades of DMC for a segmented body,
> a loop tied CDC wing case/ wing, and two shades of zelon dubbing mixed
> for thorax * * Absolutely nothing new here in concept but the abdomens
> look very nice with the slightly different color segments, and they
> fish well * * Often, on the hard fished waters I seem to frequent, the
> trick is to produce something that looks like the bug but different
> from the other patterns that look like the same bug ...
>
> I also use the stuff for midge pupa and other totally subsurface
> nymphs
>
> Um, speaking of totally subsurface...or not. * THE single thing I'd
> most like to master is the ability to fish small to tiny half-in the
> film ... or better yet, just under it ala a real midge hanging down
> trying to work through that barrier ( or one of my crawling baetis
> spinners stuck there ?) .... none of the techniques and/or ties I've
> tried really does the job .. consistently * *It's pretty simple to get
> half-in half-out "float" at size #14 ... even 16, but with tiny ties,
> no. * Anyone got ideas, I got ears.

Have you tried those flies with the extended parachute post?
Essentially, the post is about a half an inch long with the parachute
up top. This way, the fly hangs under the water. The end of the
tippet, as well as the fly (except for the parachute) would have to be
greased so it would sink, leaving the parachute above water. Could be
the answer.
Frank Reid

[D. LaCourse]

On 2010-11-24 14:07:37 -0500, Larry L > said:

>
>>
>> And my bride has every single color but no longer does embroidery.
>> Hmmm....
>
>
> Might be worth the risk
>
> I've poo-pooed the book a couple times here, but it actually gave me
> some good Ideas and his approach to collecting and matching midges is
> impressive
>
> I make a couple floating nymphs using partridge (or similar) for
> tails and legs ( beard style) two shades of DMC for a segmented body,
> a loop tied CDC wing case/ wing, and two shades of zelon dubbing mixed
> for thorax Absolutely nothing new here in concept but the abdomens
> look very nice with the slightly different color segments, and they
> fish well Often, on the hard fished waters I seem to frequent, the
> trick is to produce something that looks like the bug but different
> from the other patterns that look like the same bug ...
>
>
> I also use the stuff for midge pupa and other totally subsurface
> nymphs
>
> Um, speaking of totally subsurface...or not. THE single thing I'd
> most like to master is the ability to fish small to tiny half-in the
> film ... or better yet, just under it ala a real midge hanging down
> trying to work through that barrier ( or one of my crawling baetis
> spinners stuck there ?) .... none of the techniques and/or ties I've
> tried really does the job .. consistently It's pretty simple to get
> half-in half-out "float" at size #14 ... even 16, but with tiny ties,
> no. Anyone got ideas, I got ears.

Use fluorocaron tippet, about 1 foot. It doesn't float. Put the
tiniest of those stick-on strike indicators at the leader/tippet knot.
I have used this with #22 midges. I use the stick-on because I can not
always see the leader/tippet connection. You will most often see the
take with or without the SI. Experiment with Ginking the fluorocarbon
so that all but a few inches of it float.

Dave

[D. LaCourse]

On 2010-11-24 14:22:51 -0500, Frank Reid � 2010 > said:

> On Nov 24, 1:07Â*pm, Larry L > wrote:
>>> And my bride has every single color but no longer does embroidery.
>>> Hmmm....
>>
>> Might be worth the risk
>>
>> I've poo-pooed the book a couple times here, but it actually gave me
>> some good Ideas and his approach to collecting and matching midges is
>> impressive
>>
>> I make a couple floating nymphs using partridge (or similar) Â*for
>> tails and legs ( beard style) two shades of DMC for a segmented body,
>> a loop tied CDC wing case/ wing, and two shades of zelon dubbing mixed
>> for thorax Â* Â* Absolutely nothing new here in concept but the abdomen
> s
>> look very nice with the slightly different color segments, and they
>> fish well Â* Â* Often, on the hard fished waters I seem to frequent, th
> e
>> trick is to produce something that looks like the bug but different
>> from the other patterns that look like the same bug ...
>>
>> I also use the stuff for midge pupa and other totally subsurface
>> nymphs
>>
>> Um, speaking of totally subsurface...or not. Â* THE single thing I'd
>> most like to master is the ability to fish small to tiny half-in the
>> film ... or better yet, just under it ala a real midge hanging down
>> trying to work through that barrier ( or one of my crawling baetis
>> spinners stuck there ?) .... none of the techniques and/or ties I've
>> tried really does the job .. consistently Â* Â*It's pretty simple to ge
> t
>> half-in half-out "float" at size #14 ... even 16, but with tiny ties,
>> no. Â* Anyone got ideas, I got ears.
>
> Have you tried those flies with the extended parachute post?
> Essentially, the post is about a half an inch long with the parachute
> up top. This way, the fly hangs under the water. The end of the
> tippet, as well as the fly (except for the parachute) would have to be
> greased so it would sink, leaving the parachute above water. Could be
> the answer.
> Frank Reid

I've tried them, Frank. They're called parrasol nymphs. Didn't work
all that well, probably because they don't imitate the natural bug that
well with the post. I have seen them with fluorocarbon posts for the
parrasol, but haven't tied or tried them. Could work, I guess. I
simply tie the lure on about 12 inches of fluorocarbon tippet (it
sinks) and gink up to within a few inches of the lure, and use a very
tiny stick-on (dot) strike indicator at the leader/tippet knot. You
usually will see the take, but the SI helps me to better follow the
lure. Works on the Rapid. Trick is to keep the SI from falling off!
d;o(

Dave

[Larry L[_2_]]

..
>
> Use fluorocaron tippet, about 1 foot.


I've tried "ginking" the tippet with some success.

Being a raging liberal loony, I balk at fluorocarbon or anything else
with that kind of half-life. But, that is the first time I've seen
it suggested when it made a little sense to me.

[Frank Reid © 2010]

On Nov 24, 1:55*pm, D. LaCourse > wrote:
> On 2010-11-24 14:22:51 -0500, Frank Reid 2010 > said:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 24, 1:07*pm, Larry L > wrote:
> >>> And my bride has every single color but no longer does embroidery.
> >>> Hmmm....
>
> >> Might be worth the risk
>
> >> I've poo-pooed the book a couple times here, but it actually gave me
> >> some good Ideas and his approach to collecting and matching midges is
> >> impressive
>
> >> I make a couple floating nymphs using partridge (or similar) *for
> >> tails and legs ( beard style) two shades of DMC for a segmented body,
> >> a loop tied CDC wing case/ wing, and two shades of zelon dubbing mixed
> >> for thorax * * Absolutely nothing new here in concept but the abdomen
> > s
> >> look very nice with the slightly different color segments, and they
> >> fish well * * Often, on the hard fished waters I seem to frequent, th
> > e
> >> trick is to produce something that looks like the bug but different
> >> from the other patterns that look like the same bug ...
>
> >> I also use the stuff for midge pupa and other totally subsurface
> >> nymphs
>
> >> Um, speaking of totally subsurface...or not. * THE single thing I'd
> >> most like to master is the ability to fish small to tiny half-in the
> >> film ... or better yet, just under it ala a real midge hanging down
> >> trying to work through that barrier ( or one of my crawling baetis
> >> spinners stuck there ?) .... none of the techniques and/or ties I've
> >> tried really does the job .. consistently * *It's pretty simple to ge
> > t
> >> half-in half-out "float" at size #14 ... even 16, but with tiny ties,
> >> no. * Anyone got ideas, I got ears.
>
> > Have you tried those flies with the extended parachute post?
> > Essentially, the post is about a half an inch long with the parachute
> > up top. *This way, the fly hangs under the water. *The end of the
> > tippet, as well as the fly (except for the parachute) would have to be
> > greased so it would sink, leaving the parachute above water. *Could be
> > the answer.
> > Frank Reid
>
> I've tried them, Frank. *They're called parrasol nymphs. *Didn't work
> all that well, probably because they don't imitate the natural bug that
> well with the post. *I have seen them with fluorocarbon posts for the
> parrasol, but haven't tied or tried them. *Could work, I guess. *I
> simply tie the lure on about 12 inches of fluorocarbon tippet (it
> sinks) and gink up to within a few inches of the lure, and use a very
> tiny stick-on (dot) strike indicator at the leader/tippet knot. *You
> usually will see the take, but the SI helps me to better follow the
> lure. *Works on the Rapid. *Trick is to keep the SI from falling off! *
> d;o(
>
> Dave- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, those stick on indicators are made here in Lincoln, NE. We got
tons of them.
One thing you can do is buy some double sided insulation tape, i.e.
tape you would use to seal up a window. A small roll for a couple of
bucks makes a years worth of strike indicators. We give a couple of
wraps around the line and there you go.
Frank Reid

[D. LaCourse]

Hmmmm. Just thought of another method that works very well.

Years ago I was turned-on by the Jailbird fly. Tied as a small (#20)
nymph with a green body and an orange thread ribbing, it has a small
piece of closed cell foam tied in at the thorax. Most of the fly is
underwater just hanging there. Trouble with this tie is that I have
never been able to cast it for a presentation. I've tried my method of
very tiny strike indicators to see where it is, but I've never caught a
fish with it via casting. I usually use it by letting it float
down-stream after some riffles. It can be a killer if fished this way.
Perhaps someone else can cast/see it. I can't. d;o(

Dave

[george9219]

On Nov 24, 2:07*pm, Larry L > wrote:
> > And my bride has every single color but no longer does embroidery.
> > Hmmm....
>
> Might be worth the risk
>
> I've poo-pooed the book a couple times here, but it actually gave me
> some good Ideas and his approach to collecting and matching midges is
> impressive
>
> I make a couple floating nymphs using partridge (or similar) *for
> tails and legs ( beard style) two shades of DMC for a segmented body,
> a loop tied CDC wing case/ wing, and two shades of zelon dubbing mixed
> for thorax * * Absolutely nothing new here in concept but the abdomens
> look very nice with the slightly different color segments, and they
> fish well * * Often, on the hard fished waters I seem to frequent, the
> trick is to produce something that looks like the bug but different
> from the other patterns that look like the same bug ...
>
> I also use the stuff for midge pupa and other totally subsurface
> nymphs
>
> Um, speaking of totally subsurface...or not. * THE single thing I'd
> most like to master is the ability to fish small to tiny half-in the
> film ... or better yet, just under it ala a real midge hanging down
> trying to work through that barrier ( or one of my crawling baetis
> spinners stuck there ?) .... none of the techniques and/or ties I've
> tried really does the job .. consistently * *It's pretty simple to get
> half-in half-out "float" at size #14 ... even 16, but with tiny ties,
> no. * Anyone got ideas, I got ears.

Have you tried using a larger floating fly as an "indicator"? A
friend, who is a master flyfisherman, tyer, and rodbuilder, ofren uses
a hopper in tandem with a midge pupa with great success.

[Larry L[_2_]]

On Nov 24, 1:58*pm, george9219 > wrote:
> On Nov 24, 2:07*pm, Larry L > wrote:
>
>
>
> > > And my bride has every single color but no longer does embroidery.
> > > Hmmm....
>
> > Might be worth the risk
>
> > I've poo-pooed the book a couple times here, but it actually gave me
> > some good Ideas and his approach to collecting and matching midges is
> > impressive
>
> > I make a couple floating nymphs using partridge (or similar) *for
> > tails and legs ( beard style) two shades of DMC for a segmented body,
> > a loop tied CDC wing case/ wing, and two shades of zelon dubbing mixed
> > for thorax * * Absolutely nothing new here in concept but the abdomens
> > look very nice with the slightly different color segments, and they
> > fish well * * Often, on the hard fished waters I seem to frequent, the
> > trick is to produce something that looks like the bug but different
> > from the other patterns that look like the same bug ...
>
> > I also use the stuff for midge pupa and other totally subsurface
> > nymphs
>
> > Um, speaking of totally subsurface...or not. * THE single thing I'd
> > most like to master is the ability to fish small to tiny half-in the
> > film ... or better yet, just under it ala a real midge hanging down
> > trying to work through that barrier ( or one of my crawling baetis
> > spinners stuck there ?) .... none of the techniques and/or ties I've
> > tried really does the job .. consistently * *It's pretty simple to get
> > half-in half-out "float" at size #14 ... even 16, but with tiny ties,
> > no. * Anyone got ideas, I got ears.
>
> Have you tried using a larger floating fly as an "indicator"? A
> friend, who is a master flyfisherman, tyer, and rodbuilder, ofren uses
> a hopper in tandem with a midge pupa with great success.



I use a dry/ dropper combo a lot .... just yesterday I caught a few
with a # 16 Griffith's Gnat as the dry and a small beadhead midge
dropper down 18" but it was "fish the water" not fish the midge
hatch



I'm looking to consistently hang that "nymph" right at the film NOT
down a foot, or even 6 inches, not even an inch, to match the naturals
during a midge hatch

[Frank Reid © 2010]

All,
Just looking over this thread and seeing that we have posts from
Wales to Oz, sworn enemies, and more. Ya'll are trading info on a
rather esoteric area of the sport (at least I though it was esoteric
till I asked about it). This is trey cool. Thanks for alll the
help.
Today is the American Thanksgiving Day. I thank you all for your help
and I want to thank those original folks that set up ROFF for giving a
voice to fly fishermen from around the world.
Frank Reid

[D. LaCourse]

On 2010-11-25 09:23:38 -0500, Frank Reid � 2010 > said:

> All,
> Just looking over this thread and seeing that we have posts from
> Wales to Oz, sworn enemies, and more. Ya'll are trading info on a
> rather esoteric area of the sport (at least I though it was esoteric
> till I asked about it). This is trey cool. Thanks for alll the
> help.
> Today is the American Thanksgiving Day. I thank you all for your help
> and I want to thank those original folks that set up ROFF for giving a
> voice to fly fishermen from around the world.
> Frank Reid

How maudlin! Pass the tissues, please.

d;o)

Happy Thanks Giving to you and yours, Frank.

Dave