OT Blind Man's Bluff

[Dave LaCourse]

For all you spooks, BMB is on the History Channel tonight at 9:00 EST.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

[Bob Patton]

"Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
> For all you spooks, BMB is on the History Channel tonight at 9:00 EST.
> Dave
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html
>

Thanks for the reminder, Dave. I saw it. Cold chills at the discussion of
those things. Didn't see any folks I recognized, though. I talked to my Dad
in some detail a month or two ago about the subject, and I was amazed that
some of my comments to him about contingency orders, the real story not yet
having been told, and other things, were said almost verbatim by some of the
people in the program. Just shows that many of us probably think pretty much
the same way.

hotbunking beside a torpedo; 12-hour watches; kicking the RM out of his
radio room and locking the door; three or four people in a radio room space
not much bigger than the front seat of my car; bi-weekly showers. Using a
25-lb box of TNT as a chair (never really thought about what 25 pounds of
TNT could do to a sub). Movie strips comprised of spliced nude scenes from
every film that came on board (Barbarella!). Endless supplies of rabbit
meat. Bug juice made with confectioners sugar with powder in it that never
dissolved. Water-soluble paper - not compatible with coffee!

On long transits across the Pacific we had nothing at all to do, so it was a
good time to read, work on correspondence courses, etc. I still have a
water-stained economics textbook and assignments that I typed on the IBM
Selectric we had.

Anyway, I guess maybe we done good, buddy.

Bob

[Dave LaCourse]

Bob Patton writes:

>Thanks for the reminder, Dave. I saw it. Cold chills at the discussion of
>those things. Didn't see any folks I recognized, though. I talked to my Dad
>in some detail a month or two ago about the subject, and I was amazed that
>some of my comments to him about contingency orders, the real story not yet
>having been told, and other things, were said almost verbatim by some of the
>people in the program. Just shows that many of us probably think pretty much
>the same way.
>
>hotbunking beside a torpedo; 12-hour watches; kicking the RM out of his
>radio room and locking the door; three or four people in a radio room space
>not much bigger than the front seat of my car; bi-weekly showers. Using a
>25-lb box of TNT as a chair (never really thought about what 25 pounds of
>TNT could do to a sub). Movie strips comprised of spliced nude scenes from
>every film that came on board (Barbarella!). Endless supplies of rabbit
>meat. Bug juice made with confectioners sugar with powder in it that never
>dissolved. Water-soluble paper - not compatible with coffee!
>
>On long transits across the Pacific we had nothing at all to do, so it was a
>good time to read, work on correspondence courses, etc. I still have a
>water-stained economics textbook and assignments that I typed on the IBM
>Selectric we had.
>
>Anyway, I guess maybe we done good, buddy.
>
>Bob

d;o) It was 44 years ago for me. The first one there were three of us, so it
was four on and eight off. Ya never really got a good sleep, and hot bunking
didn't help. I still have my purloined gen-u-wine submarine laundry bag that
snapped onto the bunk.

I too didn't see anyone I recognized. I figured they would surely have Capt.
Ed. Beach.

Bi-weekly showers? Man, you had it tough. We showered every day. The thing I
remember best is eating the floor. All the canned goods were stored in the
passage ways and you could tell how long you'd been at sea by the the floor
"disappearing". I don't remember the rabbit meat, but our first two or three
days at sea we ate lobster (east coast sailor d;o) ). I remember getting
hooked on mocha - a bag of cocoa dissolved in a cup of coffee. When we pulled
into a port in Germany and finally had some fresh vegetables, I can remember
removing a green worm from my salad just before I began chomping down. Great
steaks and surprizingly good mashed potatoes. Oatmeal. Lots of oatmeal. The
meals inbetween meals were called "soup-down" and you had soup, sandwiches,
cheese, and usually a good movie.

And the smell of your clothes. You didn't realize you smelled until you went
top-side and breathed fresh air. When we returned to Groton after ops were
secured, we played games with the Brits, acting as a radar picket. On the
surface for several days in rough weather in the North Atlantic. Nearly
everyone aboard, include Beach, were seasick, many with a size 2 can tied
around their neck to vomit into. But, everyone did their jobs. Unbelievable.

Yep, we done pretty good, buddy. I sure as hell wouldn't wanna do it for a
living, though. d;o)

Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

[slenon]

I'm always impressed when I hear what you guys in the sewer pipes put up
with. Living with explosives, being continually dirty and smelly, bad food,
and personal risk of injury and death are common to many of us who served.
But to do it in a confined space that never allows you to see the sky or
breath fresh air when you need it most is devotion to duty.

We all had some part in the Cold War but some of us gave more than others
and you guys in the boats were heroes.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Dave LaCourse]

Stev writes:

>bad food,

NO. Food was excellent (for military food). You just had to hope that the
Commissary Chief knew how to pack the reefer because you ate your way thru it.
I remember having steak for dinner four or five nights in a row, which meant
that somewhere down the line you were going to have pork, or ham, or veal for
several nights. I lived off of sandwiches and soup during "soup-down" the meal
served inbetween the normal three meals, and again at 9 pm, midnight, and 3 am.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

[slenon]

Dave:
>NO. Food was excellent (for military food).

Right, Chief. It was Bob who was bemoaning having to eat rabbit. I'm still
waiting for the reasoning behind that. I was never fed rabbit in a mess
that I knew of. I have eaten sufficient water buffalo that I developed a
contact allergy to the hides.

I've read about the use of passageway deck space to store canned goods.
Must place a premium on being short at the beginning of a cruise.


--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Crusty]

Bob and Dave,

Any more of us in this group?

Crusty

USS Aspro SS309. USS Segundo SS398 (I'm a little older than you. :)


"Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Patton writes:
>
> >Thanks for the reminder, Dave. I saw it. Cold chills at the discussion of
> >those things. Didn't see any folks I recognized, though. I talked to my
Dad
> >in some detail a month or two ago about the subject, and I was amazed
that
> >some of my comments to him about contingency orders, the real story not
yet
> >having been told, and other things, were said almost verbatim by some of
the
> >people in the program. Just shows that many of us probably think pretty
much
> >the same way.
> >
> >hotbunking beside a torpedo; 12-hour watches; kicking the RM out of his
> >radio room and locking the door; three or four people in a radio room
space
> >not much bigger than the front seat of my car; bi-weekly showers. Using a
> >25-lb box of TNT as a chair (never really thought about what 25 pounds of
> >TNT could do to a sub). Movie strips comprised of spliced nude scenes
from
> >every film that came on board (Barbarella!). Endless supplies of rabbit
> >meat. Bug juice made with confectioners sugar with powder in it that
never
> >dissolved. Water-soluble paper - not compatible with coffee!
> >
> >On long transits across the Pacific we had nothing at all to do, so it
was a
> >good time to read, work on correspondence courses, etc. I still have a
> >water-stained economics textbook and assignments that I typed on the IBM
> >Selectric we had.
> >
> >Anyway, I guess maybe we done good, buddy.
> >
> >Bob
>
> d;o) It was 44 years ago for me. The first one there were three of us,
so it
> was four on and eight off. Ya never really got a good sleep, and hot
bunking
> didn't help. I still have my purloined gen-u-wine submarine laundry bag
that
> snapped onto the bunk.
>
> I too didn't see anyone I recognized. I figured they would surely have
Capt.
> Ed. Beach.
>
> Bi-weekly showers? Man, you had it tough. We showered every day. The
thing I
> remember best is eating the floor. All the canned goods were stored in
the
> passage ways and you could tell how long you'd been at sea by the the
floor
> "disappearing". I don't remember the rabbit meat, but our first two or
three
> days at sea we ate lobster (east coast sailor d;o) ). I remember getting
> hooked on mocha - a bag of cocoa dissolved in a cup of coffee. When we
pulled
> into a port in Germany and finally had some fresh vegetables, I can
remember
> removing a green worm from my salad just before I began chomping down.
Great
> steaks and surprizingly good mashed potatoes. Oatmeal. Lots of oatmeal.
The
> meals inbetween meals were called "soup-down" and you had soup,
sandwiches,
> cheese, and usually a good movie.
>
> And the smell of your clothes. You didn't realize you smelled until you
went
> top-side and breathed fresh air. When we returned to Groton after ops
were
> secured, we played games with the Brits, acting as a radar picket. On the
> surface for several days in rough weather in the North Atlantic. Nearly
> everyone aboard, include Beach, were seasick, many with a size 2 can tied
> around their neck to vomit into. But, everyone did their jobs.
Unbelievable.
>
> Yep, we done pretty good, buddy. I sure as hell wouldn't wanna do it for
a
> living, though. d;o)
>
> Dave
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Allen Epps]

In article >, Crusty
> wrote:

> Bob and Dave,
>
> Any more of us in this group?
>
> Crusty
>
> USS Aspro SS309. USS Segundo SS398 (I'm a little older than you. :)
>

Sorry airborne ESM/ECM type. Lotta respect for the folks below though.
I toured the Dallas (a 688 boat) and while it would be roomy compared
to what you all served on it was a bit tiny by my standards. Also
toured the Georgia (the Trident boat) and have to say the crew had more
room that we did on a Nimitz class carrier, although no windows :(

Allen
Prowler traps on Kennedy, Indy, Nimitz, Lincoln, TR, Stennis, Kitty
Hawk, America, Saratoga, Truman, Connie and Ike.

[Dave LaCourse]

Crusty writes:

>Any more of us in this group?
>
>Crusty
>
>USS Aspro SS309. USS Segundo SS398 (I'm a little older than you. :)

Ahh. Guppies. Glad I didn't have to do duty on them or the older fleet boats.

I am not SS. I was a "passenger" on a few rides - a spook, but I think Bob was
assigned to one and got his Dolphins.

I don't know of any others in the group.





Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

[Crusty]

Dave,

I told you I was older. The Aspro was a fleet boat. No snorkel.

Crusty




Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
> Crusty writes:
>
> >Any more of us in this group?
> >
> >Crusty
> >
> >USS Aspro SS309. USS Segundo SS398 (I'm a little older than you. :)
>
> Ahh. Guppies. Glad I didn't have to do duty on them or the older fleet
boats.
>
> I am not SS. I was a "passenger" on a few rides - a spook, but I think
Bob was
> assigned to one and got his Dolphins.
>
> I don't know of any others in the group.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dave
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Bob Patton]

"Greg Pavlov" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:35:58 -0600, "Bob Patton"
> <rwpmailatcharterdotnet> wrote:
>
> >Endless supplies of rabbit meat. ....
>
> Really ? Why rabbit meat ?
> >
> >On long transits across the Pacific we had nothing at all to do, so it
was a
> >good time to read, work on correspondence courses, etc. I still have a
> >water-stained economics textbook and assignments that I typed on the IBM
> >Selectric we had.
>
>
> I knew a nukie-poo (spell ?) who did a good part of his
> PhD in statistics on a sub.

That was only on one of my trips. I always figured the officer in charge of
the mess must have gotten a real good deal on rabbit, or maybe had a
girlfriend whose family raised rabbits. It didn't taste bad - it was just
surprising how much of it there was. The food was good and there was plenty
of it. And the cook couldn't hide.

Bob

[Bob Patton]

"Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
//snip//
> d;o) It was 44 years ago for me. The first one there were three of us,
so it
> was four on and eight off. Ya never really got a good sleep, and hot
bunking
> didn't help. I still have my purloined gen-u-wine submarine laundry bag
that
> snapped onto the bunk.

January/February and April/May 1971, for me. I had one of those laundry bags
too but lost it in a move, along with my poopie suit.

> I too didn't see anyone I recognized. I figured they would surely have
Capt.
> Ed. Beach.

Triton? Twin reactors, biggest boat the US ever built. I remember reading
about its round-the-world-submerged cruise in National Geographic when I was
a kid. Probably one of the reasons I volunteered. So it's partly your
fault!!!

> Bi-weekly showers? Man, you had it tough. We showered every day. The
thing I
> remember best is eating the floor. All the canned goods were stored in
the
> passage ways and you could tell how long you'd been at sea by the the
floor
> "disappearing". I don't remember the rabbit meat, but our first two or
three
> days at sea we ate lobster (east coast sailor d;o) ). I remember getting
> hooked on mocha - a bag of cocoa dissolved in a cup of coffee. When we
pulled
> into a port in Germany and finally had some fresh vegetables, I can
remember
> removing a green worm from my salad just before I began chomping down.
Great
> steaks and surprizingly good mashed potatoes. Oatmeal. Lots of oatmeal.
The
> meals inbetween meals were called "soup-down" and you had soup,
sandwiches,
> cheese, and usually a good movie.

At the end of my first trip in 1971 on the Barb we docked in Yokosuka, and I
still remember looking up through that round hatch at the brownish-blue
Yokosuka sky and thinking how great it was to see it again.

> And the smell of your clothes. You didn't realize you smelled until you
went
> top-side and breathed fresh air. When we returned to Groton after ops
were
> secured, we played games with the Brits, acting as a radar picket. On the
> surface for several days in rough weather in the North Atlantic. Nearly
> everyone aboard, include Beach, were seasick, many with a size 2 can tied
> around their neck to vomit into. But, everyone did their jobs.
Unbelievable.
>
> Yep, we done pretty good, buddy. I sure as hell wouldn't wanna do it for
a
> living, though. d;o)


Lots of the people I met in SecGru and on the boats were truly remarkable
people. I think guys like us had the best of both worlds - we could go on
really interesting trips on the boats, but weren't part of the crew, didn't
have to do all the grunt work, and could return to our "normal" lives in
places like Kamiseya (suburb of Tokyo/Yokohama) when the interesting work
was done.

Bob

[Bob Patton]

"Crusty" > wrote in message
...
> Bob and Dave,
>
> Any more of us in this group?
>
> Crusty
>
> USS Aspro SS309. USS Segundo SS398 (I'm a little older than you. :)

Holy ****. I can understand why you call yourself "Crusty" :-)
Bob

[Bob Patton]

"Allen Epps" > wrote in message
et...

>
> Sorry airborne ESM/ECM type. Lotta respect for the folks below though.
> I toured the Dallas (a 688 boat) and while it would be roomy compared
> to what you all served on it was a bit tiny by my standards. Also
> toured the Georgia (the Trident boat) and have to say the crew had more
> room that we did on a Nimitz class carrier, although no windows :(
>
> Allen
> Prowler traps on Kennedy, Indy, Nimitz, Lincoln, TR, Stennis, Kitty
> Hawk, America, Saratoga, Truman, Connie and Ike.

After I'd spent a year in Taiwan and was up for rotation they asked me if I
wanted to fly. Told them I thought it was way the hell too risky. They
offered to send me to SERE school in the PI if I'd fly, but I went to New
London instead. Couldn't see much point in getting involved in something
where they needed to teach me survival, evasion, resistance, and escape
techniques.

Bob
But the contingency orders (as I remember, I had to sign them) before our
trips turned out to be even more, er, "interesting."

Come to think of it, SERE might be a good course for a graduate business
curriculum.

[Bob Patton]

"Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
> Crusty writes:
>
> >Any more of us in this group?
> >
> >Crusty
> >
> >USS Aspro SS309. USS Segundo SS398 (I'm a little older than you. :)
>
> Ahh. Guppies. Glad I didn't have to do duty on them or the older fleet
boats.
>
> I am not SS. I was a "passenger" on a few rides - a spook, but I think
Bob was
> assigned to one and got his Dolphins.
>
> I don't know of any others in the group.

Sorry, but I never got my dolphins. Like Dave, I was a passenger, but seldom
went aft of the radio room.
Bob

[Bob Patton]

"slenon" > wrote in message
...
> I'm always impressed when I hear what you guys in the sewer pipes put up
> with. Living with explosives, being continually dirty and smelly, bad
food,
> and personal risk of injury and death are common to many of us who served.
> But to do it in a confined space that never allows you to see the sky or
> breath fresh air when you need it most is devotion to duty.
>
> We all had some part in the Cold War but some of us gave more than others
> and you guys in the boats were heroes.
>
The nukes were actually pretty comfortable - I wouldn't call them sewer
pipes. Of course, it's all relative. At least we weren't getting shot at. I
used to worry a little about certain navies, but at least didn't worry about
being wounded and mutilated. Nothing can compare to what guys like you went
through.

If I'd known I was a hero I'd have enjoyed it more. It was just
interesting - especially to somebody like me who's always had in interest in
history.
Bob

[Bob Patton]

"Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
> Stev writes:
>
> >bad food,
>
> NO. Food was excellent (for military food). You just had to hope that
the
> Commissary Chief knew how to pack the reefer because you ate your way thru
it.
> I remember having steak for dinner four or five nights in a row, which
meant
> that somewhere down the line you were going to have pork, or ham, or veal
for
> several nights. I lived off of sandwiches and soup during "soup-down" the
meal
> served inbetween the normal three meals, and again at 9 pm, midnight, and
3 am.
> Dave
>
Exactly!

[Dave LaCourse]

Bob Patton writes:

>Lots of the people I met in SecGru and on the boats were truly remarkable
>people. I think guys like us had the best of both worlds - we could go on
>really interesting trips on the boats, but weren't part of the crew, didn't
>have to do all the grunt work, and could return to our "normal" lives in
>places like Kamiseya (suburb of Tokyo/Yokohama) when the interesting work
>was done.
>
>Bob

I was in Kamiseya for two years. The Willie Victor crews flew out of Atsugi
NAS across the rice paddy from our tunnel. Great liberty town, Yokohama.

The only thing I didn't like about the trips was if there was trouble. we would
be the first to go - if'n ya know what I mean. I look back at those days and
have no regrets. Glad I did it. I got on the Trident her first deployments
after the around the world trip. Helluva nice bunch of guys. Crazy as loons.

SecGru has an organization, btw. U.S. Naval Cryptologic Veterans Association.
There is a membership list (around here somewhere), so if you have any names
and wonder where they are, let me know. Their website is
http://www.usncva.org/
They publish a news letter every quarter. It's a great source to find out
who's died. d;o(


Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

[Bob Patton]

"slenon" > wrote in message
m...
//snip//>
> Right, Chief. It was Bob who was bemoaning having to eat rabbit. I'm
still
> waiting for the reasoning behind that. I was never fed rabbit in a mess
//snip//

It really tasted pretty good, and it wouldn't have been bad once or twice.
Or maybe once a week. Actually, it was probably like Dave said. It was the
easiest stuff to get out of the freezer, so we had it very frequently for a
while. I haven't eaten rabbit since, and it's been over thirty years.
Bob

[Dave LaCourse]

Bob Patton writes:

>"Crusty" > wrote in message
...
>> Bob and Dave,
>>
>> Any more of us in this group?
>>
>> Crusty
>>
>> USS Aspro SS309. USS Segundo SS398 (I'm a little older than you. :)
>
>Holy ****. I can understand why you call yourself "Crusty" :-)
>Bob

<SPLORK> Don't mind him, Crusty. He's a young wippersnapper. But he does
have some salt on his collar. d;o)

[slenon]

>The nukes were actually pretty comfortable - I wouldn't call them sewer
>pipes. Of course, it's all relative. At least we weren't getting shot at. I
>used to worry a little about certain navies, but at least didn't worry
about
>being wounded and mutilated. Nothing can compare to what guys like you went
>through.

>If I'd known I was a hero I'd have enjoyed it more. It was just
>interesting - especially to somebody like me who's always had in interest
in
>history.
>Bob



I'm not claustrophobic. But I served with people who started getting freaky
in a fighting hole and could never have gone down into a tunnel or bunker.
So while I might have tolerated the close quarters, the thoughts of battery
explosions, piping failures, hot-run torpedoes, and other such things does
make what you did more challenging. Then there is the concept of rapid
reactor dissassembly that isn't supposed to exist. As you say, it's all
relative. Mr. Epps making night traps in bad weather in a plane with no
wipers likely experienced just as much stress as I did when being shot at by
someone with bad marksmanship skills. In some manner, all of us who served
in the Cold War placed our lives on the line. Even training in the military
is often deadly. Sure there were REMF jobs but in the end all Army and
Marine folks have the same basic rifleman MOS and all Navy and AF types run
the risk of their transportation systems killing them.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Allen Epps]

In article >, Bob Patton wrote:

> "Allen Epps" > wrote in message
> et...
>
> >
> > Sorry airborne ESM/ECM type. Lotta respect for the folks below though.
> > I toured the Dallas (a 688 boat) and while it would be roomy compared
> > to what you all served on it was a bit tiny by my standards. Also
> > toured the Georgia (the Trident boat) and have to say the crew had more
> > room that we did on a Nimitz class carrier, although no windows :(
> >
> > Allen
> > Prowler traps on Kennedy, Indy, Nimitz, Lincoln, TR, Stennis, Kitty
> > Hawk, America, Saratoga, Truman, Connie and Ike.
>
> After I'd spent a year in Taiwan and was up for rotation they asked me if I
> wanted to fly. Told them I thought it was way the hell too risky. They
> offered to send me to SERE school in the PI if I'd fly, but I went to New
> London instead. Couldn't see much point in getting involved in something
> where they needed to teach me survival, evasion, resistance, and escape
> techniques.
>
> Bob
> But the contingency orders (as I remember, I had to sign them) before our
> trips turned out to be even more, er, "interesting."
>
> Come to think of it, SERE might be a good course for a graduate business
> curriculum.

SERE is one of those things you look back on that was painful but built
character. Pretty much enough character for the rest of my life I
figure. Did my week up in Warner Springs above San Diego in Dec and had
water freeze in my canteen. All of us aviators were pretty miserable,
all the SEALS thought it was a vacation since SERE was the last phase
of training before they went to their teams. A very serious and tough
group of guys who were not at all like the movies I'd be awful happy to
see them if I were ever hiding in hole behind someone's lines.

Allen