Minimum equipment to start tying

[xeon]

Hi,

Could you recommend me the minimum equipment to start tying flies? I know
that the minimum is "nothing" because I can tie using my hands, but I mean
the minimum to let me start tying easily (I've never done it already)

Thanks

[Stan Gula]

"xeon" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Could you recommend me the minimum equipment to start tying flies? I know
> that the minimum is "nothing" because I can tie using my hands, but I mean
> the minimum to let me start tying easily (I've never done it already)
>
> Thanks

At minimum:
1. a vise
2. a bobbin (thread holder)
3. really good scissors (don't skimp on the scissors)

Everything else is not really minimal, but can help a lot. Dubbing needles,
dubbing spinners, hackle pliers, whip finish or half hitch tool, wing
burners, lots of extra bobbins (I have at least a dozen with standard
threads, flosses and wires ready to use), etc.

[Flyguy]

"xeon" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Could you recommend me the minimum equipment to start tying flies? I know
> that the minimum is "nothing" because I can tie using my hands, but I mean
> the minimum to let me start tying easily (I've never done it already)
>
> Thanks
>
> Well I started this hobby last year. my original kit I put together myself
for around $100 can
contained a descent vice, bobbin, bodkin, some 10 hooks and supplies to tie
wolly buggers. (I already own a couple pairs of descent scissors) I have
since spent hundreds on books supplies (lots of hooks , hackle and fur),
more tools, a magnifying lamp and portable box and table, and three magazine
subscriptions.

The best investment I ever made.........this is simply the best thing I ever
did for myself,
and "I had never done it already" either! :)

flyguy

[Sierra fisher]

Though not an absolute nuecessity, a bobbin threader will same you some time
for a few bucks. As Flyguy suggested, pick out a fly that you can fish now,
and buy the material for that fly. Eventually you'll be tying dozens of
flies that you can use, and you will have a good start on all of the
materials that you will need. It is not a cheap sport! If it comes from a
fly shop it is expensive. There are alternatives, like craft stores,
Walmart, Cabelas.
"xeon" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Could you recommend me the minimum equipment to start tying flies? I know
> that the minimum is "nothing" because I can tie using my hands, but I mean
> the minimum to let me start tying easily (I've never done it already)
>
> Thanks
>
>


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[jeffc]

"Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
...
> Though not an absolute nuecessity, a bobbin threader will same you some
time
> for a few bucks.

I trick I learned is to put some slack in the thread and then just literally
suck the thread up through the bobbin tube. After practicing a bit, it's
faster, easier and cheaper than having a bobbin threader.

[jeffc]

"Stan Gula" > wrote in message
...
>
> At minimum:
> 1. a vise
> 2. a bobbin (thread holder)
> 3. really good scissors (don't skimp on the scissors)

That's all you need. Some sort of hackle plier comes in very handy if
you're going to turn hackle, and so does a bodkin - for many things. I
guess the tip of scissors could do in a pinch, but sinch you'll be getting
good scissors, you don't want to dull them with extraneous use.

[Hooked]

"Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
...
> Though not an absolute nuecessity, a bobbin threader will same you some
time
> for a few bucks.

I made a cheap bobbin threader by tying a folded piece of wire to the end of
a toothpick.

It works, and I saved how much?

[vincent p. norris]

>> Though not an absolute nuecessity, a bobbin threader will same you some
>time
>> for a few bucks.
>
>I trick I learned is to put some slack in the thread and then just literally
>suck the thread up through the bobbin tube. After practicing a bit, it's
>faster, easier and cheaper than having a bobbin threader.

Go to a drugstore and buy a little pack of Butler EEZ-THRU Floss
Threaders. Dirt cheap. Or get a pack free form your dentist.

Little pieces of stiff "mono" with a loop on one end. You stick the
single end through your bobbin's tube, put the thread through the
loop, and pull the whole works through the tube.

Nothing could be easier.

vince

[Sierra fisher]

IF you used fine piano or guitar wire, not much. If your didn't, you'll
probably be rebuilding it shortly
"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
> "Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Though not an absolute nuecessity, a bobbin threader will same you some
> time
> > for a few bucks.
>
> I made a cheap bobbin threader by tying a folded piece of wire to the end
of
> a toothpick.
>
> It works, and I saved how much?
>
>


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[Hooked]

"Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
...
> IF you used fine piano or guitar wire, not much. If your didn't, you'll
> probably be rebuilding it shortly

I actually used single strand stainless leader wire that I have a few coils
of laying around.

[Hooked]

"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
> "Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
> ...
> > IF you used fine piano or guitar wire, not much. If your didn't,
you'll
> > probably be rebuilding it shortly
>
> I actually used single strand stainless leader wire that I have a few
coils
> of laying around.
>
>

Forgot to mention, I've been using the same thing for almost 6 years, and
it'll probably last another 6 or 60 years.

[Joshua Rosenblatt]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:13:45 -0500, "Hooked" >
wrote:

>"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
>> "Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > IF you used fine piano or guitar wire, not much. If your didn't,
>you'll
>> > probably be rebuilding it shortly
>>
>> I actually used single strand stainless leader wire that I have a few
>coils
>> of laying around.
>>
>>
>
>Forgot to mention, I've been using the same thing for almost 6 years, and
>it'll probably last another 6 or 60 years.

wow!

rather than buying a Griffin Bobbin threader for $2.45, you have thus
far managed to save.. err, lessee...

$2.45 divided.... umm, 6 years times 365, err, umm... about $.001
cent a day!! Good on ya! And think of the continued savings to
come!!!!

Err, of course, for that hefty $2.45 investment you also get two
bobbin cleaners to get out the wax that may have accumulated in the
bobbins over said 6 years -or iover the next 6, but hell, you can
always use a used bamboo shishkabob skewer to do that, eh?!

<jsut messing with ya>

actually, I use the 'insert thread & suck' method myself as it's just
easier and quicker than looking for my threader. Having multiple
bobbins is also a plus - though it'll cost ya more than $.001 cents a
day I'd imagine.
;)

Best
Joshua
>

[Hooked]

"Joshua Rosenblatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> Err, of course, for that hefty $2.45 investment you also get two
> bobbin cleaners to get out the wax that may have accumulated in the
> bobbins over said 6 years -or iover the next 6, but hell, you can
> always use a used bamboo shishkabob skewer to do that, eh?!
>

I gave up pipe smoking years ago and have a whole lot of pipe cleaners for
that. :-)


Seriously, I haven't had a problem with wax build up.

[Joshua Rosenblatt]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:32:53 -0500, "Hooked" >
wrote:

>"Joshua Rosenblatt" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Err, of course, for that hefty $2.45 investment you also get two
>> bobbin cleaners to get out the wax that may have accumulated in the
>> bobbins over said 6 years -or iover the next 6, but hell, you can
>> always use a used bamboo shishkabob skewer to do that, eh?!
>>
>
>I gave up pipe smoking years ago and have a whole lot of pipe cleaners for
>that. :-)
>
LOL

Dill or BJ Long's?? Both should do the job nicely.
>
>Seriously, I haven't had a problem with wax build up.

me neither, but I haven't been tying all that long :)

Best
Joshua
<contently puffing away on a Ferndown bent bulldog with some Rattray's
marlin Flake as I Type>

>

[Brimbum]

Not sure who wrote:>>Seriously, I haven't had a problem with wax build up.
>
>me neither, but I haven't been tying all that long :)
>

I recently had to clean the wax out of a bobbin for the first time, and I have
been tying for more than a decade.. For a bobbin threader, I bought a box of
dental floss threaders at the grocery store and have a lifetime supply for
everyone I know who ties. I was gonna spend money at the grocery store anyway
so I figure they were free.

Brimbum

[[email protected]]

"Stan Gula" listed at a minimum:
> 1. a vise
> 2. a bobbin (thread holder)
> 3. really good scissors (don't skimp on the scissors)
>
--------
Of course, the tools/toys are so much fun and then I wondered what
about minimum materials...the very minimum (IMHO), hooks, black thread
and pheasant tail.

Chris

PS Stan what brand of scissors are you using these days? I bought
some Dr. Slicks the last time up and I am impressed.

[Stan Gula]

> wrote in message
m...
> Of course, the tools/toys are so much fun and then I wondered what
> about minimum materials...the very minimum (IMHO), hooks, black thread
> and pheasant tail.
>
> Chris
>
> PS Stan what brand of scissors are you using these days? I bought
> some Dr. Slicks the last time up and I am impressed.

I have three pairs that I use most often. A pair of fine pointed Dr.
Slicks, a long pair or Orvis hair scissors (serrated), and a junk pair for
cutting tinsels and wires.

As for minimal supplies, I would add a medium grade, half grizzly neck and
some kind of gray dry fly dubbing and some hot orange thread.

Then I would add peacock herl, half a brown neck, half a ginger neck, some
superfine or beaver dubbing (olive, cream, sulphur yellow), more thread
(olive, tan, cream, yellow), a wild cotttontail skin, a whitetail deer tail,
various patches of deer and elk (natural and bleached), chenille in fine and
medium in a dozen colors, floss (red, yellow, green), a hungarian partridge
skin, mallard flanks (natural and dyed woodduck), ah, hell, I really need
some natural wooduck, sacks full of marabou, CDC, a dozen more colors of
dubbing, and probably some spiky stuff like hareline or haretron for my
nymphs (or both), a couple more dyed pheasant tails, some golden pheasant
tippets, lots and lots of hooks. OK, now I have to sort this pile a couple
times a year to see what I'm 'missing'. Antron, polypro yarn, Krystal
flash, ice chenilles, Estaz, popper bodies, foam (thin and thick, in at
least 6 colors), Zap-a-gap, Hard as Nails (clear and black), a few kinds of
wire and tinsel, two sizes of lead wire. Hmmm, I could probably use red,
blue, yellow and green dyed bucktails. I'm almost done. Oh yeah, I need a
dozen assorted turkey feathers for nymph backs and caddis wings, and maybe
some bugskin for bigger ones for durability. Some embroidery floss for
crocheted nymph bodies, six colors. A couple of big storage tubs.
Woodchuck tails, snowshoe rabbit feet, turkey flats, ostrich herl, a small
bag of alpaca wool, maybe some yak. Another storage tub.

I'm getting close...

--Stan

[slenon]

>Another storage tub.
>I'm getting close...
>--Stan

Isn't it amazing how there's always "just one more material I need to tie
this new pattern I want to work on"?

I'm going to log onto _______'s website and order just one item.

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar
Save a cow, eat a PETA

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Brimbum]

Stan erote a pretty good list, but you also need both round and square rubber
legs and some very cool bass spinner bait skirts for more legs. I always was a
leg man.

Big Dale

[Stan Gula]

"Brimbum" > wrote in message
...
> Stan erote a pretty good list, but you also need both round and square
rubber
> legs and some very cool bass spinner bait skirts for more legs. I always
was a
> leg man.
>
> Big Dale

In fact I have a pile-o-legs. Also turkey and goose biots, in several
colors (but mostly white). Also, not strictly materials, pantone markers
and acrylic paints. A light dun hen neck, and a black one, several dyed
grizzly necks. And some strung saddle hackles in various colors. When does
it end...

[George Adams]

>From: "Stan Gula"

>When does
>it end...
>

This whole thread sounds like Steve Martin as "The Jerk". "All I need is
..............." {:-)


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

[Brimbum]

Stan wrote:snip>When does
>it end...
>

When your widow is splitting the mess into about four or five piles to donate
to a few of your favorite fly clubs and conclaves. I have a friend's wife who
has been doing this for about a month. Last time we checked a couple of years
ago the 20 year collection must have cost about 30K as near as we could figure.

Big Dale

[vincent p. norris]

>... you also need both round and square rubber legs ...

Can you explain that, Dale, or are you just funning Stan (and me)?

vince

[Stan Gula]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> >... you also need both round and square rubber legs ...
>
> Can you explain that, Dale, or are you just funning Stan (and me)?
>
> vince

No, he's not kidding. There are (for a normal non-tying person) way too
many kinds of leg materials.

[Brimbum]

Vince wrote:>>... you also need both round and square rubber legs ...
>
>Can you explain that, Dale, or are you just funning Stan (and me)?
>

I prefer using round rubber legs on some patterns and some other patterns I
prefer using the square rubber legs.

Big Dale

[Flyguy]

"Stan Gula" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> m...
>
> I'm getting close...
>
> --Stan
>
>
> Ummm Stan...in a word ..Jungle cock...ok ok I know it is two words. Please
also don't forget the orange and red brick bucktails...for those killer
crayfish clousers.

Flyguy

[Stan Gula]

"Flyguy" > wrote in message
...
> > Ummm Stan...in a word ..Jungle cock...ok ok I know it is two words.
Please
> also don't forget the orange and red brick bucktails...for those killer
> crayfish clousers.
>
> Flyguy

I never use jungle cock nails, but I have a patch of the feathers that lie
under the nail feathers. Really nice soft hackles.

[steve]

In article >,
"Stan Gula" > wrote:

> Then I would add peacock herl, half a brown neck, half a ginger neck, some
> superfine or beaver dubbing (olive, cream, sulphur yellow), more thread
> (olive, tan, cream, yellow), a wild cotttontail skin, a whitetail deer tail,
> various patches of deer and elk (natural and bleached), chenille in fine and
> medium in a dozen colors, floss (red, yellow, green), a hungarian partridge
> skin, mallard flanks (natural and dyed woodduck), ah, hell, I really need
> some natural wooduck, sacks full of marabou, CDC, a dozen more colors of
> dubbing, and probably some spiky stuff like hareline or haretron for my
> nymphs (or both), a couple more dyed pheasant tails, some golden pheasant
> tippets, lots and lots of hooks. OK, now I have to sort this pile a couple
> times a year to see what I'm 'missing'. Antron, polypro yarn, Krystal
> flash, ice chenilles, Estaz, popper bodies, foam (thin and thick, in at
> least 6 colors), Zap-a-gap, Hard as Nails (clear and black), a few kinds of
> wire and tinsel, two sizes of lead wire. Hmmm, I could probably use red,
> blue, yellow and green dyed bucktails. I'm almost done. Oh yeah, I need a
> dozen assorted turkey feathers for nymph backs and caddis wings,

If you have deer hair, cdc, and elk hair why do you need caddis wings?
What is caddis wings, anyways?

[Hooked]

"steve" > wrote in message
...
>
> If you have deer hair, cdc, and elk hair why do you need caddis wings?
> What is caddis wings, anyways?

"Caddis wings" are the part of the insect that make it fly.

[Stan Gula]

"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
> "steve" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > If you have deer hair, cdc, and elk hair why do you need caddis wings?
> > What is caddis wings, anyways?
>
> "Caddis wings" are the part of the insect that make it fly.
>

Exactly. Turkey feathers are really nice for caddis wings. The turkey
quill segment makes a nice low profile wing and I like it a lot on smaller
flies.

Here's a pattern very similar to what I tie the most - I usually skip the
front hackle...
http://www.virtualflybox.com/patterns/pattern.php?id=233

[Ken Fortenberry]

Stan Gula wrote:
>
> Exactly. Turkey feathers are really nice for caddis wings. The turkey
> quill segment makes a nice low profile wing and I like it a lot on smaller
> flies.
>
> Here's a pattern very similar to what I tie the most - I usually skip the
> front hackle...
> http://www.virtualflybox.com/patterns/pattern.php?id=233

How do you treat the turkey feather ? I use flexament to treat the turkey
feathers I use for hopper wings, but I find that in the smaller sizes the
wing is either too flimsy or too heavy depending on whether I use a thick
or thin coat of flexament.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[riverman]

"Stan Gula" > wrote in message
...
> "Hooked" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "steve" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > If you have deer hair, cdc, and elk hair why do you need caddis wings?
> > > What is caddis wings, anyways?
> >
> > "Caddis wings" are the part of the insect that make it fly.
> >
>
> Exactly. Turkey feathers are really nice for caddis wings. The turkey
> quill segment makes a nice low profile wing and I like it a lot on smaller
> flies.
>
> Here's a pattern very similar to what I tie the most - I usually skip the
> front hackle...
> http://www.virtualflybox.com/patterns/pattern.php?id=233

A very wise Swede told me that he has stopped using feather wings entirely,
and now only uses hair wings, because in long casts the feather wings (which
are inevitably unbalanced) spin the fly and twist your tippet. Once he
mentioned it, I realized that it was happening, so I am now finding myself
only tying hair wings. I still prefer the look of a feather wing, but I only
ever use them for up-close fishing (casts no more than 6-10 yards).

--riverman

[Charlie Choc]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:32:05 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
> wrote:

>How do you treat the turkey feather ? I use flexament to treat the turkey
>feathers I use for hopper wings, but I find that in the smaller sizes the
>wing is either too flimsy or too heavy depending on whether I use a thick
>or thin coat of flexament.

Try spraying them with a fixative like Tuffilm.
--
Charlie...

[Stan Gula]

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
y.com...
> How do you treat the turkey feather ? I use flexament to treat the turkey
> feathers I use for hopper wings, but I find that in the smaller sizes the
> wing is either too flimsy or too heavy depending on whether I use a thick
> or thin coat of flexament.

I use Krylon fixatif (that's what my mentors all use). Some with both sides
treated, some with a single side (some top, some bottom) and some feathers
with no treatment. I have a *lot* of turkey feathers.

In my experience, the treatment does two things: helps to hold the barbs
together, and adds a slight shine. In practice, this only affects the
appearance right after tying. After the first fish, they get all shredded
no matter what you do (short of embedding them in Lucite<g>). Shredded
wings seem to work just as well as nice, pretty wings.

I haven't seen problems like riverman alludes to - spinning during the cast.
I also tie lots of other caddis patterns with hair wings and CDC. It never
hurts to have too many flies.

--Stan

[riverman]

"Stan Gula" > wrote in message
...

>
> I haven't seen problems like riverman alludes to - spinning during the
cast.
> I also tie lots of other caddis patterns with hair wings and CDC. It
never
> hurts to have too many flies.


I hadn't noticed it until the Swedish Clave, myself. Maybe it had to do with
consistenly throwing extremely long casts: like right at my limit. The fish
seemed to be rising just another 2 yards beyond my last cast, so I was
always hurling it farther and farther. I would notice my tippets getting all
kinky after 5 or 6 casts, and pretty soon after that, they would be all
knotted even though I wasn't getting any trailing loops. Once I swapped to
hairwings, it stopped. Roger mentioned to me later (in an unrelated
conversation) that he didn't use feather wings because it twisted his
leaders, and I realized what was happening.

--riverman

[Ken Fortenberry]

Stan Gula wrote:
>
> ... After the first fish, they get all shredded
> no matter what you do (short of embedding them in Lucite<g>). Shredded
> wings seem to work just as well as nice, pretty wings. ...

Hmmmm, that's not my experience with hoppers. I coat turkey feathers
top and bottom with flexament and a hopper will catch multiple fish
before the wing shreds, but once it does the fish won't touch it.
Of course, that's in size 10 & 12 3X long, a turkey feather so treated
is just too heavy for the wing of a smaller fly, in my experience.

Thanks to you and Charlie for the tip on the spray fixatives.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Ernie]

Beginner kit for trout,and panfish (this is what I would get)
You can add items as you need them.
Ernie Harrison

Vise -Thompson pro. and a midge head
Hackle Pliers
Bobbin, (ceramic tube)
Surgical scissors, with large thumbhole for palming
Bodkin
Bobbin threader
Hooks, Mustad (box of 100)
94840 in sizes 10 and 12 and 14 (dry fly)
3906 in sizes 10 and 12 and 14 (wet fly/nymph)
Thread 6/0, (black, brown, yellow and red)
Head cement.
Dubbing wax.
Gold wire, (fine)
Tinsel, (medium) silver on one side, gold on the other
Floss, (red, yellow, and green)
Chenille, small (black, yellow, olive and brown)
Bead heads, medium (gold)
Calf tail, (white)
Squirrel tail, (gray)
Hares mask,
Deer hair, (natural)
Rooster hackle, (brown, and grizzly)
Mallard wing, (pair)
Ringneck pheasant tail
Peacock herl

Hook & Hackle on line catalog at http://www.hookhack.com/
Has most of these items and their prices are reasonable.

[Lat705]

Isn't it time to realize that there is no minimum (or maximum either). No
mater what you get, you did not get enough.

Lou T

[riverman]

"Lat705" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't it time to realize that there is no minimum (or maximum either).
No
> mater what you get, you did not get enough.

And you'll still have stuff lying around that you never use.

--riverman

[ArnSaga]

<< riverman" >><BR><BR>
<< No
> mater what you get, you did not get enough.

And you'll still have stuff lying around that you never use. >><BR><BR>
<< --riverman >><BR><BR>

Like Lynx face and a Tragopan skin? I just finished a few dozen Red Squirrel
nymphs for a raffle. Olive thread, gold holographic tinsel, and fur/guard
hairs. And they'll catch more fish than most complex flys. Not giving up the
Lynx face yet.

Glenn
GKT

[Willi]

ArnSaga wrote:

> << riverman" >><BR><BR>
> << No
>
>>mater what you get, you did not get enough.
>
>
> And you'll still have stuff lying around that you never use. >><BR><BR>
> << --riverman >><BR><BR>
>
> Like Lynx face and a Tragopan skin? I just finished a few dozen Red Squirrel
> nymphs for a raffle. Olive thread, gold holographic tinsel, and fur/guard
> hairs. And they'll catch more fish than most complex flys. Not giving up the
> Lynx face yet.


I got a few fox masks from a furrier some years ago. The hair is very
spiky and they tie some good nymphs. You can either use a dubbing loop
and use the hair for legs or you can blend it with some softer fur for
some all around dubbing. Think that would apply to a Lynx mask too, but
I didn't even know what a Tragopan skin was until I did a search. Wild
looking bird!. Think there would be lots of uses for those colorful
feathers.

Willi

[ArnSaga]

<< Willi >><BR><BR>
<< hat a Tragopan skin was until I did a search. Wild
looking bird!. Think there would be lots of uses for those colorful
feathers. >><BR><BR>
They're actually great. But using 10 or 20 feathers a year doesn't allow me to
pretend that purchase of the skin was justified by finance or art. Got carried
away at a fly fishing show.

Glenn
GKT