Post On ABPF re: unique fly pattern, posted by "lurk"

[DaveMohnsen]

Hi All,
Saw this pic today concerning a guy who just wanted to know the process to
tie a fly. He got some leads. I have a question though about the pattern.
I remember seeing these in fly shops in the 1970's in Colorado. Heck, I
even tied some. I seem to remember they were offered by Hank Roberts out of
Boulder, Colorado. I googled a bit today, and a site that gave some
reference to his old flies I could not get through.
I don't have any actual flies of them anymore in my "ancient" boxes. (heh .
.. .heh . . .just my 'improvements')
Does anybody remember the name? Seems I remember a pattern called the
"Domino", but don't know if it fits this one.
Came in other colors. Black/White . . as pictured . . .and Brown/Yellow or
Gold as I recall.
Pattern is a nymph stonefly pattern. . . but was used as a general attractor
under the meniscus for any kind of underwater crawly things.
Thanks in advance if anybody can jumpstart my memory again.
BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver

[Sandy]

DaveMohnsen wrote:
> Hi All,
> Saw this pic today concerning a guy who just wanted to know the
> process to tie a fly. He got some leads. I have a question though
> about the pattern. I remember seeing these in fly shops in the 1970's
> in Colorado. Heck, I even tied some. I seem to remember they were
> offered by Hank Roberts out of Boulder, Colorado. I googled a bit
> today, and a site that gave some reference to his old flies I could
> not get through.
> I don't have any actual flies of them anymore in my "ancient" boxes.
> (heh . . .heh . . .just my 'improvements')
> Does anybody remember the name? Seems I remember a pattern called
> the "Domino", but don't know if it fits this one.
> Came in other colors. Black/White . . as pictured . . .and
> Brown/Yellow or Gold as I recall.
> Pattern is a nymph stonefly pattern. . . but was used as a general
> attractor under the meniscus for any kind of underwater crawly things.
> Thanks in advance if anybody can jumpstart my memory again.
> BestWishes,
> DaveMohnsen
> Denver

Try this.

http://www.markov.baikal.ru/keep/articles/woven.html




--
Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:-
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667
#Rabble Channel Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/rabbled
ICQ : 41266150

[Willi]

DaveMohnsen wrote:

> Hi All,
> Saw this pic today concerning a guy who just wanted to know the process to
> tie a fly. He got some leads. I have a question though about the pattern.
> I remember seeing these in fly shops in the 1970's in Colorado. Heck, I
> even tied some. I seem to remember they were offered by Hank Roberts out of
> Boulder, Colorado. I googled a bit today, and a site that gave some
> reference to his old flies I could not get through.
> I don't have any actual flies of them anymore in my "ancient" boxes. (heh .
> . .heh . . .just my 'improvements')
> Does anybody remember the name? Seems I remember a pattern called the
> "Domino", but don't know if it fits this one.
> Came in other colors. Black/White . . as pictured . . .and Brown/Yellow or
> Gold as I recall.
> Pattern is a nymph stonefly pattern. . . but was used as a general attractor
> under the meniscus for any kind of underwater crawly things.
> Thanks in advance if anybody can jumpstart my memory again.
> BestWishes,
> DaveMohnsen
> Denver


I remember them. I think they were local Colorado/Wyoming flies. As I
remember they were sold in plastic bubble packs and the different colors
were also tied slightly differently and had different names. Domino for
the black and white one sounds right to me. The last place I remember
seeing them was in an old Netcraft catalog that I no longer have.

Willi

[Stan Gula]

"Willi" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> DaveMohnsen wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> > Saw this pic today concerning a guy who just wanted to know the process
to
> > tie a fly. He got some leads. I have a question though about the
pattern.
> > I remember seeing these in fly shops in the 1970's in Colorado. Heck,
I
> > even tied some. I seem to remember they were offered by Hank Roberts
out of
> > Boulder, Colorado. I googled a bit today, and a site that gave some
> > reference to his old flies I could not get through.
> > I don't have any actual flies of them anymore in my "ancient" boxes.
(heh .
> > . .heh . . .just my 'improvements')
> > Does anybody remember the name? Seems I remember a pattern called the
> > "Domino", but don't know if it fits this one.
> > Came in other colors. Black/White . . as pictured . . .and
Brown/Yellow or
> > Gold as I recall.
> > Pattern is a nymph stonefly pattern. . . but was used as a general
attractor
> > under the meniscus for any kind of underwater crawly things.
> > Thanks in advance if anybody can jumpstart my memory again.
> > BestWishes,
> > DaveMohnsen
> > Denver
>
>
> I remember them. I think they were local Colorado/Wyoming flies. As I
> remember they were sold in plastic bubble packs and the different colors
> were also tied slightly differently and had different names. Domino for
> the black and white one sounds right to me. The last place I remember
> seeing them was in an old Netcraft catalog that I no longer have.
>
> Willi
>
>

Do you guys remember what they used for the material? I've played with
chenille and embroidery floss (which really cuts up my hands) and am
intrigued by the site somebody posted showing braided larva lace. I think a
stonefly nymph abdomen of braided larva lace would look really natural -
segmented, glossy, a little translucent.

[DaveMohnsen]

"Sandy" > wrote in message
...
> DaveMohnsen wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > Saw this pic today concerning a guy who just wanted to know the
> > process to tie a fly. He got some leads. I have a question though
> > about the pattern. I remember seeing these in fly shops in the 1970's
> > in Colorado. Heck, I even tied some. I seem to remember they were
> > offered by Hank Roberts out of Boulder, Colorado. I googled a bit
> > today, and a site that gave some reference to his old flies I could
> > not get through.
> > I don't have any actual flies of them anymore in my "ancient" boxes.
> > (heh . . .heh . . .just my 'improvements')
> > Does anybody remember the name? Seems I remember a pattern called
> > the "Domino", but don't know if it fits this one.
> > Came in other colors. Black/White . . as pictured . . .and
> > Brown/Yellow or Gold as I recall.
> > Pattern is a nymph stonefly pattern. . . but was used as a general
> > attractor under the meniscus for any kind of underwater crawly things.
> > Thanks in advance if anybody can jumpstart my memory again.
> > BestWishes,
> > DaveMohnsen
> > Denver
>
> Try this.
>
> http://www.markov.baikal.ru/keep/articles/woven.html
>
Don`t Worry, Be Happy
> Sandy
> --
Hi Sandy,
Found that link yesterday. Gives a pretty good synopsis of woven pattern
history. Went through the patterns. Didn't find the one of my search.
Thanks for checking.
Dave

[DaveMohnsen]

"Willi" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> DaveMohnsen wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> > Saw this pic today concerning a guy who just wanted to know the process
to
> > tie a fly. He got some leads. I have a question though about the
pattern.
> > I remember seeing these in fly shops in the 1970's in Colorado. Heck,
I
> > even tied some. I seem to remember they were offered by Hank Roberts
out of
> > Boulder, Colorado. I googled a bit today, and a site that gave some
> > reference to his old flies I could not get through.
> > Does anybody remember the name? Seems I remember a pattern called the
> > "Domino", but don't know if it fits this one.
(stuff snipped)
> > BestWishes,
> > DaveMohnsen
> > Denver
>
>
> I remember them. I think they were local Colorado/Wyoming flies. As I
> remember they were sold in plastic bubble packs and the different colors
> were also tied slightly differently and had different names. Domino for
> the black and white one sounds right to me. The last place I remember
> seeing them was in an old Netcraft catalog that I no longer have.
>
> Willi
>
>
Hi Willi,
Thanks. I seem to remember the bubble packs. The last few years I think I
still saw the pattern offered someplace. I didn't really care for the
pattern but it started me with the weaving process back in the 70's.

Also had a pattern back then called a Sandy Mite in this part of the
country. (the link 'Sandy' above gave me refers to it) Didn't have much
luck with it myself.

By the way . . .liked your first fish of the year pics. Fish looked in good
shape. . . and the terrain looked . . .uhh . . .front range like (g)
Dave
(got about 3 inches of snow at my house yesterday)

[DaveMohnsen]

"Stan Gula" > wrote in message
...
> "Willi" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > DaveMohnsen wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > > Saw this pic today concerning a guy who just wanted to know the
process
> to
> > > tie a fly. He got some leads. I have a question though about the
> pattern.
> > > I remember seeing these in fly shops in the 1970's in Colorado.
Heck,
> I
> > > even tied some. I seem to remember they were offered by Hank Roberts
> out of
> > > Boulder, Colorado. I googled a bit today, and a site that gave some
> > > reference to his old flies I could not get through.
> > > Does anybody remember the name? Seems I remember a pattern called
the
> > > "Domino", but don't know if it fits this one.
(various stuff snipped)
> > > BestWishes,
> > > DaveMohnsen
> > > Denver
> >
> > I remember them. I think they were local Colorado/Wyoming flies. As I
> > remember they were sold in plastic bubble packs and the different colors
> > were also tied slightly differently and had different names. Domino for
> > the black and white one sounds right to me. The last place I remember
> > seeing them was in an old Netcraft catalog that I no longer have.
> >
> > Willi
> >
> >

> Do you guys remember what they used for the material? I've played with
> chenille and embroidery floss (which really cuts up my hands) and am
> intrigued by the site somebody posted showing braided larva lace. I think
a
> stonefly nymph abdomen of braided larva lace would look really natural -
> segmented, glossy, a little translucent.
>
Hi Stan,
Back at the time I tied this pattern, I seem to remember using 4 strand
floss . . . pain in the butt. I have since then used yarn, braid,
embroidery floss, rubber leg material, monofilament, larva lace( in both
body and midge sizes), swannandaze(sp), etc.
Produced a braid pattern for Orvis a few years ago that looked neat . . .not
very durable. (ya can buy braid in a fly shop or your craft or sewing store
.. . .goes by sparkle braid or something like that)
Produced some of Phil Camera's (the larva lace guy) River Witch pattern . .
..looks nice.
They have got much better in the industry at the larva lace type material.
I touched one tube material a couple year's ago that was very strong . .
..don't recall the manufacturer.
One neat thing about the Larva Lace Body Material is that you can insert a
strand of Krystal Flash through the tube to get a different look. . . and
Larva Lace compresses pretty nicely when you wrap, or weave it.

In any case, I kind of like the stuff. Phil Camera put out a book called
"Fly Tying With Synthetics" in around 1992 or so. Gives all his style and
he promotes his products. Fun guy to talk to. Somebody here in ROFF or
ROFFT recently saw him out East at a show and he is scheduled to be at the
show in Denver this coming weekend. So I suspect he is still doing a kind
of yearly thing with the shows.

When I was mucking around the industry for a few years we did a few patterns
for him. I did some of the production prototypes, based on samples sent us,
did specs, and sometimes visited the tiers to send things into production
mode. Heh . . .heh . . .sometimes I didn't even see the patterns until I
was there . . .which is far, far away from Denver.

Only had one issue with one pattern with him. Different pattern, materials
and unique baitfish pattern. ( I wouldn't go ahead with production until I
got a go ahead from actual production samples . . .he got busy with other
stuff . . . project fizzled out . . .I still feel bad about that one . .
..but I'm sure he found a source (g) . . .many out there.

Frankly, play around with the weaving thing. I do so . . .but as came up in
another thread . . .I, as others have said recently, believe I can still
just wrap some stuff around a hook, maybe put on a rib, some stuff at the
front . . .ohh . . .and maybe a tail, and do okay.

Uhh . . .and remember, there are several ways to "weave" a pattern. It is
the style of the weave. . . .uh . . .or knot.
BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver

[Stan Gula]

"DaveMohnsen" > wrote in message
link.net...
<snip a whole lot of good stuff>
> Uhh . . .and remember, there are several ways to "weave" a pattern. It is
> the style of the weave. . . .uh . . .or knot.
> BestWishes,
> DaveMohnsen
> Denver
>

I have Fly Tiers' Benchside Ref. and have looked at (and tried) most of the
methods they show. I mostly use the 'regular' weave - a series of half
hitches really, alternating the colors, so you end up with one color on top,
the checkerboard edge, and another color on the bottom. It's cool, but like
you say, there are way simpler ties that work.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

[Skwala]

"Stan Gula" > wrote in message
...
> "Willi" > wrote in message
> ...
> >

>
> Do you guys remember what they used for the material?
>


I tied quite a few braided patterns for my self back in the 70'2 and 80's,
both the George Grant stlye and those of Franz Potts.

I even toyed with the idea of buying the Sandy Mite Fly company from the
people that had it back then (Frank Potts's grand kids, I think), but I
noticed that the only fisherman that bought them to fish with were pretty
elderly and not likely to be buying flies for much longer, so I passed.

In fact the last summer I sold any every single buyer asked me to tie on a
12" snell to the flies so they could just loop to loop them to the leader.

As far as materials; the original patterns were tied as the Russian web site
described; http://www.markov.baikal.ru/keep/articles/woven.html , only on
blind eyed hooks with a 8"-12" snelled gut leader coming off the end. But by
the time I first saw them in the mid- 70's they were using eyed hooks and
horsehair for both the body and the hackle(?!), but I used different shades
of raw nylon paint brush bristles (for house paint brushes). I used to buy
this stuff by the pound and a couple of pounds is just about a life time
supply.

The fly pictured on the Russian site earlier in this thread; is tied by
attaching a few strands of light and dark colored bristles on opposite sides
of a hook, then pointing the hook straight at you and tying a series of
overhand knots keeping the hook in the center of the knot, at all times.

Way too time consuming for me to do any more.

Skwala

[Willi]

Stan Gula wrote:


>
>
> Do you guys remember what they used for the material? I've played with
> chenille and embroidery floss (which really cuts up my hands) and am
> intrigued by the site somebody posted showing braided larva lace. I think a
> stonefly nymph abdomen of braided larva lace would look really natural -
> segmented, glossy, a little translucent.
>
>

I think they were tied with floss and the braiding was done with a
series of knots. Been a long time.

In terms of those very realistic stonefly patterns, not to discourage
you about them, but IMO, you'll catch more fish with simple "buggy" ties.

Willi

[Willi]

Skwala wrote:

>
>
> I tied quite a few braided patterns for my self back in the 70'2 and 80's,
> both the George Grant stlye and those of Franz Potts.
>
> I even toyed with the idea of buying the Sandy Mite Fly company from the
> people that had it back then (Frank Potts's grand kids, I think), but I
> noticed that the only fisherman that bought them to fish with were pretty
> elderly and not likely to be buying flies for much longer, so I passed.
>
> In fact the last summer I sold any every single buyer asked me to tie on a
> 12" snell to the flies so they could just loop to loop them to the leader.

When I first moved out to Colorado lots of the old timers used Potts
flies. They liked the snells because they often fished a cast of two or
three flies and the snells made them easy to attach.
>
> As far as materials; the original patterns were tied as the Russian web site
> described; http://www.markov.baikal.ru/keep/articles/woven.html , only on
> blind eyed hooks with a 8"-12" snelled gut leader coming off the end. But by
> the time I first saw them in the mid- 70's they were using eyed hooks and
> horsehair for both the body and the hackle(?!), but I used different shades
> of raw nylon paint brush bristles (for house paint brushes). I used to buy
> this stuff by the pound and a couple of pounds is just about a life time
> supply.


I got some original Potts flies in a big assortment of hooks I bought at
a pawn shop a coule of years ago. From what I know of them they used a
variety of hairs to tye them and the hair was also used as the hackle. I
tied some up using the originals as samples and have fished them some. I
find that soft hackles are much more effective.

>
> The fly pictured on the Russian site earlier in this thread; is tied by
> attaching a few strands of light and dark colored bristles on opposite sides
> of a hook, then pointing the hook straight at you and tying a series of
> overhand knots keeping the hook in the center of the knot, at all times.


The Potts flies aren't tied with knots like on the Russian site. It's a
wrapping, braiding system. Once you get the hang of it, they're fairly
fast to tie.

Willi

[Willi]

DaveMohnsen wrote:


> Also had a pattern back then called a Sandy Mite in this part of the
> country. (the link 'Sandy' above gave me refers to it) Didn't have much
> luck with it myself.


The Pott's Mite series was pretty popular. I never had much luck with
them either, but I did learn some interesting techniques from some of
the old timers that used to use them.

Willi

[Stan Gula]

"Willi" > wrote in message
...
> I think they were tied with floss and the braiding was done with a
> series of knots. Been a long time.
>
> In terms of those very realistic stonefly patterns, not to discourage
> you about them, but IMO, you'll catch more fish with simple "buggy" ties.
>
> Willi
>
>

I absolutely agree. However, I've found that if I donate a dozen woven
stoneflies to my TU raffle, they draw a lot more money than a dozen green
weenies<g>. I tie really basic patterns to fish with, and fancy things for
fun (and fund raising). I switched to 'in the round' stoneflies for my own
use a couple of years ago.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

[Big Dale]

Stan wrote:snip>I absolutely agree. However, I've found that if I donate a
dozen woven
>stoneflies to my TU raffle, they draw a lot more money than a dozen green
>weenies<g>

I have noticed that when someone ties with the simple knot type of woven body
at various conclaves or show demos that it always draws a crowd of interested
folks. Sometimes I will do it for a couple of hours just for ****s and grins.

Big Dale

[Skwala]

"Willi" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Skwala wrote:
>

> > The fly pictured on the Russian site earlier in this thread; is tied by
> > attaching a few strands of light and dark colored bristles on opposite
sides
> > of a hook, then pointing the hook straight at you and tying a series of
> > overhand knots keeping the hook in the center of the knot, at all times.
>
>
> The Potts flies aren't tied with knots like on the Russian site. It's a
> wrapping, braiding system. Once you get the hang of it, they're fairly
> fast to tie.
>

True, the Potts method for the body is actually fairly simple... wrap the
body material (hair) around the hook, then with it held tightly straight
down, wrap the belly material (usually embroidery floss) around the hank of
body material, snug it all up to the hook, then repeat.

The woven hackle is a whole 'nother matter, however... it was prepared "off
fly" by wrapping nymo tying thread around a pine board about an each apart,
then taking wet badger or horse hair and clove hitching (like attaching a
saddle bag to a saddle) it to the thread in clumps spaced slightly apart.

I don't know if any glue was applied or if they counted on the clove hitch
alone.

The thread was then cut about every foot or so... and wrapped onto the fly
in front of the body much like a feather hackle and finished off.

It made for a rather unnatural looking fly in my opinion, but I imagine that
in the 40's and 50's more fish were caught on these flies in the northern
rocky mountain states than any other pattern.

Changing the hair and floss colors gave the difference between patterns..
lady mite, sandy mite, etc.

After the mite series, I guess the next best fly of the era was the Bunyon
bug series, tied with horse hair, cork and a decal shellaced to the cork.

I used to find this things at yard sales and estate auctions all the time...

Skwala

[Willi]

Stan Gula wrote:

> "Willi" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I think they were tied with floss and the braiding was done with a
>>series of knots. Been a long time.
>>
>>In terms of those very realistic stonefly patterns, not to discourage
>>you about them, but IMO, you'll catch more fish with simple "buggy" ties.
>>
>>Willi

>>
>
>
> I absolutely agree. However, I've found that if I donate a dozen woven
> stoneflies to my TU raffle, they draw a lot more money than a dozen green
> weenies<g>.

You're right about that! They do look VERY cool.

Willi