benefits of antron?

[steve sullivan]

I tried to tie a cdc caddis, and it didnt float very well. A cdc caddis
fly I tied had antron just behind the cdc (both at 45 degree angles,
going from tail to eye it was antron the cdc).

Does antron fairly floatable?

Do any people try using a bwo but in parachute ? With a antron post and
then blue wing parachute style?

[Stan Gula]

"steve sullivan" > wrote in message
...
> I tried to tie a cdc caddis, and it didnt float very well. A cdc caddis
> fly I tied had antron just behind the cdc (both at 45 degree angles,
> going from tail to eye it was antron the cdc).
>
> Does antron fairly floatable?
>
> Do any people try using a bwo but in parachute ? With a antron post and
> then blue wing parachute style?

Antron doesn't float. It is denser than water. If you need floatation in a
yarn you might want to try polypropylene.

[Willi]

steve sullivan wrote:
> I tried to tie a cdc caddis, and it didnt float very well. A cdc caddis
> fly I tied had antron just behind the cdc (both at 45 degree angles,
> going from tail to eye it was antron the cdc).
>
> Does antron fairly floatable?
>
> Do any people try using a bwo but in parachute ? With a antron post and
> then blue wing parachute style?


I've been recently tying some with a CDC post. They look good to me but
I haven't tried them yet.

Willi

[Ernie]

"Willi" > wrote in message
...
> > Does antron fairly floatable?
> Willi

I don't know but Polypropolene floats.
Ernie

[steve sullivan]

In article >,
"Stan Gula" > wrote:

> "steve sullivan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I tried to tie a cdc caddis, and it didnt float very well. A cdc caddis
> > fly I tied had antron just behind the cdc (both at 45 degree angles,
> > going from tail to eye it was antron the cdc).
> >
> > Does antron fairly floatable?
> >
> > Do any people try using a bwo but in parachute ? With a antron post and
> > then blue wing parachute style?
>
> Antron doesn't float. It is denser than water. If you need floatation in a
> yarn you might want to try polypropylene.

Wasnt it a mistake then for the flyshop to give me antron for parachute
posts?

[Stan Gula]

"steve sullivan" > wrote in message
...
> > >
> > > Does antron fairly floatable?
> >
> > Antron doesn't float. It is denser than water. If you need floatation
in a
> > yarn you might want to try polypropylene.
>
> Wasnt it a mistake then for the flyshop to give me antron for parachute
> posts?

Not really. The post isn't there for floatation but as a post. The hackle
should float the fly in the surface tension. Hooks don't float so good
either and we all use them<g> White Antron makes a pretty good post, but
it's a bit too crinkly for me to work with - it sure is visible though. I
prefer polypro. It comes down to your own preference.

[Peter Charles]

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 23:52:22 GMT, "Stan Gula"
> wrote:

>"steve sullivan" > wrote in message
...
>> > >
>> > > Does antron fairly floatable?
>> >
>> > Antron doesn't float. It is denser than water. If you need floatation
>in a
>> > yarn you might want to try polypropylene.
>>
>> Wasnt it a mistake then for the flyshop to give me antron for parachute
>> posts?
>
>Not really. The post isn't there for floatation but as a post. The hackle
>should float the fly in the surface tension. Hooks don't float so good
>either and we all use them<g> White Antron makes a pretty good post, but
>it's a bit too crinkly for me to work with - it sure is visible though. I
>prefer polypro. It comes down to your own preference.
>
>
I've found that Antron posts get waterlogged and then the fly will not
ride correctly so I've stopped using it for that purpose. The best
post will be made out of a hydrophobic material that's lighter than
water.

Stan, does polypropylene absorb and hold water? I've never tried it
for a post.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

[Stan Gula]

"Peter Charles" > wrote in message
...
> I've found that Antron posts get waterlogged and then the fly will not
> ride correctly so I've stopped using it for that purpose. The best
> post will be made out of a hydrophobic material that's lighter than
> water.
>
> Stan, does polypropylene absorb and hold water? I've never tried it
> for a post.
>
> Peter

Polypro doesn't absorb water (in my experience). A friend has turned me on
to turkey flats for posts and while those do suck up water, I've found it's
not a problem if you give the post a good shot of head cement and grease it
up.

The best in terms of floatation might be a thin strip of 2mm closed cell
foam. I've experimented with two strips (orange and white) which is really
easy to see. This gives me a good idea for a swap fly...

[Svend Tang-Petersen]

Stan Gula wrote:

> "Peter Charles" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've found that Antron posts get waterlogged and then the fly will not
> > ride correctly so I've stopped using it for that purpose. The best
> > post will be made out of a hydrophobic material that's lighter than
> > water.
> >
> > Stan, does polypropylene absorb and hold water? I've never tried it
> > for a post.
> >
> > Peter
>
> Polypro doesn't absorb water (in my experience). A friend has turned me on
> to turkey flats for posts and while those do suck up water, I've found it's
> not a problem if you give the post a good shot of head cement and grease it
> up.
>
> The best in terms of floatation might be a thin strip of 2mm closed cell
> foam. I've experimented with two strips (orange and white) which is really
> easy to see. This gives me a good idea for a swap fly...

The #14,50x long parachute adams (nose to tail) cluster with various posts ?

[Larry]

I like CDC better tied in a loop if you're using it as a sight
reference. If you want a bit of flotation value out of it, you can loop
it under the hook and then post it, leaving some barbules between the
hackle under the fly.

Larry

Willi wrote:

>
>
> steve sullivan wrote:
>
>> I tried to tie a cdc caddis, and it didnt float very well. A cdc
>> caddis fly I tied had antron just behind the cdc (both at 45 degree
>> angles, going from tail to eye it was antron the cdc).
>>
>> Does antron fairly floatable?
>>
>> Do any people try using a bwo but in parachute ? With a antron post
>> and then blue wing parachute style?
>
>
>
> I've been recently tying some with a CDC post. They look good to me but
> I haven't tried them yet.
>
> Willi
>
>
>
>
>

[Stan Gula]

> > This gives me a good idea for a swap fly...
>
> The #14,50x long parachute adams (nose to tail) cluster with various posts
?
>

I can only fine 20x long hooks. Do you have a source? <g>

[Wayne Knight]

"Stan Gula" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Charles" > wrote in message
> Polypro doesn't absorb water (in my experience). A friend has turned me
on
> to turkey flats for posts and while those do suck up water, I've found
it's
> not a problem if you give the post a good shot of head cement and grease
it
> up.
>
> The best in terms of floatation might be a thin strip of 2mm closed cell
> foam. I've experimented with two strips (orange and white) which is
really
> easy to see. This gives me a good idea for a swap fly...
>

Polypro, closed cell foam.....sheesh don't you guys ever tie a parachute fly
the way God intended, good old fashioned animal hair?

[Svend Tang-Petersen]

Wayne Knight wrote:

> "Stan Gula" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Peter Charles" > wrote in message
> > Polypro doesn't absorb water (in my experience). A friend has turned me
> on
> > to turkey flats for posts and while those do suck up water, I've found
> it's
> > not a problem if you give the post a good shot of head cement and grease
> it
> > up.
> >
> > The best in terms of floatation might be a thin strip of 2mm closed cell
> > foam. I've experimented with two strips (orange and white) which is
> really
> > easy to see. This gives me a good idea for a swap fly...
> >
>
> Polypro, closed cell foam.....sheesh don't you guys ever tie a parachute fly
> the way God intended, good old fashioned animal hair?

Calfs tail works pretty well, but I guess people are getting to lay to stack
hairs. I use most
methods mentioned but most of the time its either polypro or t-base depending
on size and
how slim I want the body.

[Peter Charles]

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:55:23 -0800, Svend Tang-Petersen
> wrote:

>Wayne Knight wrote:
>
>> "Stan Gula" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > "Peter Charles" > wrote in message
>> > Polypro doesn't absorb water (in my experience). A friend has turned me
>> on
>> > to turkey flats for posts and while those do suck up water, I've found
>> it's
>> > not a problem if you give the post a good shot of head cement and grease
>> it
>> > up.
>> >
>> > The best in terms of floatation might be a thin strip of 2mm closed cell
>> > foam. I've experimented with two strips (orange and white) which is
>> really
>> > easy to see. This gives me a good idea for a swap fly...
>> >
>>
>> Polypro, closed cell foam.....sheesh don't you guys ever tie a parachute fly
>> the way God intended, good old fashioned animal hair?
>
>Calfs tail works pretty well, but I guess people are getting to lay to stack
>hairs. I use most
>methods mentioned but most of the time its either polypro or t-base depending
>on size and
>how slim I want the body.


I used to use calftail on some of my earliest parachute ties but I
went away from it as I thought it too heavy for posts -- that and the
bulk. Did you find that your calftail equipped flies rode OK? Also,
did you stack and tie in, leaving the post untrimmed, or trim it off
square?

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

[Wayne Knight]

"Peter Charles" > wrote in message
...
> I used to use calftail on some of my earliest parachute ties but I
> went away from it as I thought it too heavy for posts -- that and the
> bulk. Did you find that your calftail equipped flies rode OK? Also,
> did you stack and tie in, leaving the post untrimmed, or trim it off
> square?
>

Rode fine, clip it off square

[Conan the Librarian]

Svend Tang-Petersen > wrote in message >...

> Calfs tail works pretty well, but I guess people are getting to lay to stack
> hairs. I use most
> methods mentioned but most of the time its either polypro or t-base depending
> on size and
> how slim I want the body.

FWIW, I started tying parachutes with calf-tail, but found it tough
to keep the bodies thin enough. Then I picked up a little trick y'all
might all know about, but here goes: I take a bunch of polypro that's
half as thick as the post I want. I tie it on from the top, but let
the tying thread rotate it under the hook. A couple of figure-eight
wraps so it's perpendicular to the shank and then I pull the two ends
up and wrap them together to make the post.

This gives me a little bulge on the bottom right at the tie-in
point/thorax, but I don't have any extra bulk going back towards the
bend. I usually add a couple of drops of head-cement at the bottom of
the post to help make sure it can't rotate around the hook.


Chuck Vance

[rb608]

"Conan the Librarian" > wrote in message
> FWIW, I started tying parachutes with calf-tail, but found it tough
> to keep the bodies thin enough. Then I picked up a little trick y'all
> might all know about, but here goes: I take a bunch of polypro that's
> half as thick as the post I want. I tie it on from the top, but let
> the tying thread rotate it under the hook. A couple of figure-eight
> wraps so it's perpendicular to the shank and then I pull the two ends
> up and wrap them together to make the post.

I've never tied parachutes, so I'm not asking from experience; but why can't
you do the same figure eight thing on top of the hook without wrapping it
under?

Joe F.

[riverman]

"rb608" > wrote in message
...
> "Conan the Librarian" > wrote in message
> > FWIW, I started tying parachutes with calf-tail, but found it tough
> > to keep the bodies thin enough. Then I picked up a little trick y'all
> > might all know about, but here goes: I take a bunch of polypro that's
> > half as thick as the post I want. I tie it on from the top, but let
> > the tying thread rotate it under the hook. A couple of figure-eight
> > wraps so it's perpendicular to the shank and then I pull the two ends
> > up and wrap them together to make the post.
>
> I've never tied parachutes, so I'm not asking from experience; but why
can't
> you do the same figure eight thing on top of the hook without wrapping it
> under?

IIUC, you create wings instead of a post.

--riverman

[Willi]

Stan Gula wrote:

> "Peter Charles" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I've found that Antron posts get waterlogged and then the fly will not
>>ride correctly so I've stopped using it for that purpose. The best
>>post will be made out of a hydrophobic material that's lighter than
>>water.
>>
>>Stan, does polypropylene absorb and hold water? I've never tried it
>>for a post.
>>
>>Peter
>
>
> Polypro doesn't absorb water (in my experience). A friend has turned me on
> to turkey flats for posts and while those do suck up water, I've found it's
> not a problem if you give the post a good shot of head cement and grease it
> up.
>
> The best in terms of floatation might be a thin strip of 2mm closed cell
> foam. I've experimented with two strips (orange and white) which is really
> easy to see. This gives me a good idea for a swap fly...
>>


Foam posts are great. They're easy to see and they really grab the
hackle when wrapping. If wanted, you can stretch them and clip them
close. All you're left with in a tiny nub. I do this for a midge dry.

Willi

[rb608]

"riverman" > wrote in message
> "rb608" > wrote in message
> > I've never tied parachutes, so I'm not asking from experience; but why
> can't
> > you do the same figure eight thing on top of the hook without wrapping
it
> > under?
>
> IIUC, you create wings instead of a post.

I understand that part; but maybe that's the answer. Chuck wrote, "A couple
of figure-eight wraps so it's perpendicular to the shank and then I pull the
two ends up and wrap them together to make the post." Is it
difficult/impossible to wrap the two ends together to form a post if they're
on top as opposed to the bottom?

Joe F.

[riverman]

"rb608" > wrote in message
...
>
> "riverman" > wrote in message
> > "rb608" > wrote in message
> > > I've never tied parachutes, so I'm not asking from experience; but why
> > can't
> > > you do the same figure eight thing on top of the hook without wrapping
> it
> > > under?
> >
> > IIUC, you create wings instead of a post.
>
> I understand that part; but maybe that's the answer. Chuck wrote, "A
couple
> of figure-eight wraps so it's perpendicular to the shank and then I pull
the
> two ends up and wrap them together to make the post." Is it
> difficult/impossible to wrap the two ends together to form a post if
they're
> on top as opposed to the bottom?
>
>

Hmm, if I'm visualizing this correctly, you're just asking why the post
can't be a U-shaped piece of material, with the U above the shank rather
than wrapped around it? I guess the only reason for that might be that the
post material might add floatation, so having it wrap below the shank floats
the hook higher. Other than that, I'm not certain Chuck meant that his post
material wrapped around the shaft. "Perpendicular" might mean horizontal and
perpendicular (lying across the hook, putting the U above the shaft) rather
than vertical and perpendicular (wrapping the U around the hook)

--riverman

[rb608]

"riverman" > wrote in message
> Hmm, if I'm visualizing this correctly, you're just asking why the post
> can't be a U-shaped piece of material, with the U above the shank rather
> than wrapped around it?

That's exactly my question.

> Other than that, I'm not certain Chuck meant that his post
> material wrapped around the shaft. "Perpendicular" might mean horizontal
and
> perpendicular (lying across the hook, putting the U above the shaft)
rather
> than vertical and perpendicular (wrapping the U around the hook)

Hmm. Maybe so. From his description, I envisioned him tying on the post
material similar to a pair of barbel eyes then folding it up & wrapping it.

Joe F.

[Conan The Librarian]

rb608 wrote:
> "riverman" > wrote in message
>
>>Hmm, if I'm visualizing this correctly, you're just asking why the post
>>can't be a U-shaped piece of material, with the U above the shank rather
>>than wrapped around it?
>
>
> That's exactly my question.
>
>
>>Other than that, I'm not certain Chuck meant that his post
>>material wrapped around the shaft. "Perpendicular" might mean horizontal
>
> and
>
>>perpendicular (lying across the hook, putting the U above the shaft)
>
> rather
>
>>than vertical and perpendicular (wrapping the U around the hook)
>
>
> Hmm. Maybe so. From his description, I envisioned him tying on the post
> material similar to a pair of barbel eyes then folding it up & wrapping it.

Sorry to put you guys through so much trouble trying to decipher my
previous post. :-) I tie the polypro on with the "U" under/around the
hook shank (I start it above but let the thread rotate it under). I
tied them above as well, but I like the look of the bump underneath, as
it looks like a proper thorax. And it may be my imagination (or
rationalization), but it seems to lock in place better when wrapped from
underneath.


Chuck Vance

[John Hightower]

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message

> Sorry to put you guys through so much trouble trying to decipher my
> previous post. :-) I tie the polypro on with the "U" under/around the
> hook shank (I start it above but let the thread rotate it under). I
> tied them above as well, but I like the look of the bump underneath, as
> it looks like a proper thorax. And it may be my imagination (or
> rationalization), but it seems to lock in place better when wrapped from
> underneath.
>
>
> Chuck Vance

Pretty much how I do it, except I start with the post material below the
shank of the hook and pull straight up on both ends, make a few cross wraps
to stabilize and then wrap up the post to give a good thread base for the
parachute hackle- trim to length.
jh

[Svend Tang-Petersen]

I tie in a piece of poly (half the thickness I want) with 3-4 wraps in the same
spot above and along
the shank. Then lift both ends straight up and wrap around it (usual post
reinforcement) and add a tiny
drop of head cement. No bulk underneath and no excess sticking backwards adding
bulk to the body.

I place the poly in the same way you tie in rubber legs, i.e. U the poly around
the thread, hold it with
left hand, make one wrap while placing the poly on top of the shank at the
tiein point.

riverman wrote:

> "rb608" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "riverman" > wrote in message
> > > "rb608" > wrote in message
> > > > I've never tied parachutes, so I'm not asking from experience; but why
> > > can't
> > > > you do the same figure eight thing on top of the hook without wrapping
> > it
> > > > under?
> > >
> > > IIUC, you create wings instead of a post.
> >
> > I understand that part; but maybe that's the answer. Chuck wrote, "A
> couple
> > of figure-eight wraps so it's perpendicular to the shank and then I pull
> the
> > two ends up and wrap them together to make the post." Is it
> > difficult/impossible to wrap the two ends together to form a post if
> they're
> > on top as opposed to the bottom?
> >
> >
>
> Hmm, if I'm visualizing this correctly, you're just asking why the post
> can't be a U-shaped piece of material, with the U above the shank rather
> than wrapped around it? I guess the only reason for that might be that the
> post material might add floatation, so having it wrap below the shank floats
> the hook higher. Other than that, I'm not certain Chuck meant that his post
> material wrapped around the shaft. "Perpendicular" might mean horizontal and
> perpendicular (lying across the hook, putting the U above the shaft) rather
> than vertical and perpendicular (wrapping the U around the hook)
>
> --riverman

--

Svend

************************************************** ***************
Svend Tang-Petersen, MSc Email: svend AT sgi.com
SGI Pager: svend_p AT pager.sgi.com
1500 Crittenden Lane Phone: (+1) 650 933 3618
Mountain View
California 94043
USA
MS 30-2-526
************************************************** ***************

[riverman]

"John Hightower" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
>
> > Sorry to put you guys through so much trouble trying to decipher my
> > previous post. :-) I tie the polypro on with the "U" under/around the
> > hook shank (I start it above but let the thread rotate it under). I
> > tied them above as well, but I like the look of the bump underneath, as
> > it looks like a proper thorax. And it may be my imagination (or
> > rationalization), but it seems to lock in place better when wrapped from
> > underneath.
> >
> >
> > Chuck Vance
>
> Pretty much how I do it, except I start with the post material below the
> shank of the hook and pull straight up on both ends, make a few cross
wraps
> to stabilize and then wrap up the post to give a good thread base for the
> parachute hackle- trim to length.
> jh

Which brings us to a variant of the first question..why not just lay the
polypro across the hook (making a little cross), then wrap some Xs to secure
it, and fold it up and make the U above the shaft? I thought parachutes were
supposed to float the fly just below the surface, with just the parachute
above. If the polypro provides floation, don't we want as little as possible
below the hook?

--riverman

[Svend Tang-Petersen]

I stack the hair first, but it takes longer than deer hair since its lighter and less
straight. I rarely trimm
the post, except for lifting the excess at a 45 degree angle and the cutting parallel
with the shank. That
leaves a the excess on the shank tapered. Sometimes (especially if its a biot body) Ill
add some dugging
to smoothen out the body taper.

But as someone mentioned if I want a really thin body I dont use hair.

And I havent noticed any significant differences in flotation etc.

Peter Charles wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:55:23 -0800, Svend Tang-Petersen
> > wrote:
>
> >Wayne Knight wrote:
> >
> >> "Stan Gula" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > "Peter Charles" > wrote in message
> >> > Polypro doesn't absorb water (in my experience). A friend has turned me
> >> on
> >> > to turkey flats for posts and while those do suck up water, I've found
> >> it's
> >> > not a problem if you give the post a good shot of head cement and grease
> >> it
> >> > up.
> >> >
> >> > The best in terms of floatation might be a thin strip of 2mm closed cell
> >> > foam. I've experimented with two strips (orange and white) which is
> >> really
> >> > easy to see. This gives me a good idea for a swap fly...
> >> >
> >>
> >> Polypro, closed cell foam.....sheesh don't you guys ever tie a parachute fly
> >> the way God intended, good old fashioned animal hair?
> >
> >Calfs tail works pretty well, but I guess people are getting to lay to stack
> >hairs. I use most
> >methods mentioned but most of the time its either polypro or t-base depending
> >on size and
> >how slim I want the body.
>
> I used to use calftail on some of my earliest parachute ties but I
> went away from it as I thought it too heavy for posts -- that and the
> bulk. Did you find that your calftail equipped flies rode OK? Also,
> did you stack and tie in, leaving the post untrimmed, or trim it off
> square?
>
> Peter
>
> turn mailhot into hotmail to reply
>
> Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

--

Svend

************************************************** ***************
Svend Tang-Petersen, MSc Email: svend AT sgi.com
SGI Pager: svend_p AT pager.sgi.com
1500 Crittenden Lane Phone: (+1) 650 933 3618
Mountain View
California 94043
USA
MS 30-2-526
************************************************** ***************

[Stan Gula]

"riverman" > wrote in message
...
> Which brings us to a variant of the first question..why not just lay the
> polypro across the hook (making a little cross), then wrap some Xs to
secure
> it, and fold it up and make the U above the shaft? I thought parachutes
were
> supposed to float the fly just below the surface, with just the parachute
> above. If the polypro provides floation, don't we want as little as
possible
> below the hook?
>
> --riverman

Sure, many people do that, see Svend's post above.

The amount of poly (foam, whatever) below the hook with the method Chuck
mentions is miniscule. I like that method better myself, because it's very
secure, I like a little bulk in the thorax area, and I think it makes a
smoother post to wrap on without a need to build up much thread, That said,
I still tie most of mine with turkey flats (t-base) - and part of that is
because I acquired several bags of the stuff and want to use it up<g>.

[Bill Kiene]

I would think "Metamucil" would be better for you than "antron".
--
Dr. Kiene

Kiene's Gastrointestinal Division
Sacramento, CA, USA
www.kiene.com

"steve sullivan" > wrote in message
...

> I tried to tie a cdc caddis, and it didnt float very well. A cdc caddis
> fly I tied had antron just behind the cdc (both at 45 degree angles,
> going from tail to eye it was antron the cdc).
>
> Does antron fairly floatable?
>
> Do any people try using a bwo but in parachute ? With a antron post and
> then blue wing parachute style?

[Warren]

wrote...
> I've never tied parachutes, so I'm not asking from experience; but why can't
> you do the same figure eight thing on top of the hook without wrapping it
> under?

You can, but they wiggle more. The hook gives the post some support
if you wrap it under the hook shank, figure eight it, then bring up
the two strands and then wrap around the post (get that? ;-). Merely
figure eighting it on top of the hook shank has far less stability
IME. It does look better so if you don't find re-adjusting your
posts after a few casts/fish, then the fly could work fairly well.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/MadisonConclave.html