Dubbing loop question

[rb608]

I've read the books and the online tutorials; but I'm having just s bit of
trouble with this dubbing loop thing. I'm hoping somebody's explanation can
shorten the learning curve a bit for me.

At a glance, this seems as though it should be a lot simpler than I'm
experiencing. I make the loop and open it with my fingers to insert the fur
dubbing. What I can't seem to manage is an even distribution of the
material nor keeping all of the material in place as I move down the loop.
Any tips?

Joe F.

[Lat705]

Use wax. Put your middle finger in the loop at the bottom. Your thumb and
forefinger are used to pinch the dubbing loop closed. After material is
aligned, take your middle finger o0utof the looop, put tension on the loop and
pinch loop shut. While keeping tension, spin loop. Keep tension from spinner
and "move the twist" up to the dubbing with your other thumb nail and
forefinger. Repeat until desired amount of twist is obtained. I like to align
material on a bulldog clip of Magic Tool for insertion of material into the
loop. It does take practice to get a good touch with some material.

Lou T

[Mike Connor]

"rb608" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> I've read the books and the online tutorials; but I'm having just s bit of
> trouble with this dubbing loop thing. I'm hoping somebody's explanation
can
> shorten the learning curve a bit for me.
>
> At a glance, this seems as though it should be a lot simpler than I'm
> experiencing. I make the loop and open it with my fingers to insert the
fur
> dubbing. What I can't seem to manage is an even distribution of the
> material nor keeping all of the material in place as I move down the loop.
> Any tips?
>
> Joe F.
>
>

Use this;
http://www.pechetruite.com/Mouches/dubbing-e.htm

http://www.pechetruite.com/Mouches/dubbing2-e.htm

http://www.sexyloops.com/connorsmetre/dubbing.shtml

http://www.roughfish.com/dubloop.html

http://newzealandfishing.com/articles/hair_flies.htm

TL
MC

[Tony & Barb Vellturo]

This is the method I use. Wax a length of thread. Place dubbing on
thread. Place "spinner" at end of dubbing, bring unwaxed end of
thread back up to hook to form loop. Wind thread a couple of wraps to
secure it and then spin to make noodle. This method allows even
distribution of dubbing.



On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 19:47:03 GMT, "rb608"
> wrote:

>I've read the books and the online tutorials; but I'm having just s bit of
>trouble with this dubbing loop thing. I'm hoping somebody's explanation can
>shorten the learning curve a bit for me.
>
>At a glance, this seems as though it should be a lot simpler than I'm
>experiencing. I make the loop and open it with my fingers to insert the fur
>dubbing. What I can't seem to manage is an even distribution of the
>material nor keeping all of the material in place as I move down the loop.
>Any tips?
>
>Joe F.
>
>

[D. Rocksvold]

I tried and failed at using the dubbing loop last night. I ended up just
applying it by hand. It looks so easy when I see other people using the
loop, it frustrates me...

By the way, what was the address to send the completed flies/tags to. I
finished tying mine last night at work. I just need to make up the tags.

Dustin

"rb608" > wrote in message
...
> I've read the books and the online tutorials; but I'm having just s bit of
> trouble with this dubbing loop thing. I'm hoping somebody's explanation
can
> shorten the learning curve a bit for me.
>
> At a glance, this seems as though it should be a lot simpler than I'm
> experiencing. I make the loop and open it with my fingers to insert the
fur
> dubbing. What I can't seem to manage is an even distribution of the
> material nor keeping all of the material in place as I move down the loop.
> Any tips?
>
> Joe F.
>
>

[Mike Connor]

> "rb608" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've read the books and the online tutorials; but I'm having just s bit
of
> > trouble with this dubbing loop thing. I'm hoping somebody's explanation
> can
> > shorten the learning curve a bit for me.
> >
> > At a glance, this seems as though it should be a lot simpler than I'm
> > experiencing. I make the loop and open it with my fingers to insert the
> fur
> > dubbing. What I can't seem to manage is an even distribution of the
> > material nor keeping all of the material in place as I move down the
loop.
> > Any tips?
> >
> > Joe F.
> >


It occurred to me, after reading your post again, and noticing that you
wrote "as I move down the loop", that you will find it a lot easier if you
keep the loop horizontal, when adding dubbing.

TL
MC

[rb608]

"D. Rocksvold" > wrote in message
news:tWbPb.108261$na.71299@attbi_s04...
> I tried and failed at using the dubbing loop last night. I ended up just
> applying it by hand. It looks so easy when I see other people using the
> loop, it frustrates me...

I've managed to succeed in getting the fur into the loop well enough, but
I'm still unhappy with the finished look after wrapping on the hook. Too
much material, yet too little at the same time. I think I'm going to head
out to a local fly shop for a little hands-on.


> By the way, what was the address to send the completed flies/tags to. I
> finished tying mine last night at work. I just need to make up the tags.

The shipping address is:
Joe Fleischman
P.O. Box 171
Bel Air, MD 21014

If you haven't, check out the "Tags" page on the FS website:
http://home.att.net/~fleischman/FStags.htm

YOMAS,
Joe F.

[rb608]

"Mike Connor" <Mike-Connor> wrote in message
> It occurred to me, after reading your post again, and noticing that you
> wrote "as I move down the loop", that you will find it a lot easier if
you
> keep the loop horizontal, when adding dubbing.

Although I didn't actually mean "down" in my post, you are right about that
horizontal thing. That's one tip I figured out myself the hard way. BTW,
thanks for the links, though I'd already found 4 out of the 5.

My present troubles seem to result from the dubbed fur being too long.
After I get it spun in the loop & begin wrapping, I'm getting too much of
the material wrapping itself around the hook shank when I want it sticking
out for the body. I'm cutting very soft rabbit fur directly off the skin &
it's about 1.5 cm long. Should I be using shorter material? If so,
how/when is the best way to trim it?

Joe F.
(& don't get me started on the static electricity thing.)

[Mike Connor]

"rb608" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
>
> "Mike Connor" <Mike-Connor> wrote in message
> > It occurred to me, after reading your post again, and noticing that you
> > wrote "as I move down the loop", that you will find it a lot easier if
> you
> > keep the loop horizontal, when adding dubbing.
>
> Although I didn't actually mean "down" in my post, you are right about
that
> horizontal thing. That's one tip I figured out myself the hard way. BTW,
> thanks for the links, though I'd already found 4 out of the 5.
>
> My present troubles seem to result from the dubbed fur being too long.
> After I get it spun in the loop & begin wrapping, I'm getting too much of
> the material wrapping itself around the hook shank when I want it sticking
> out for the body. I'm cutting very soft rabbit fur directly off the skin
&
> it's about 1.5 cm long. Should I be using shorter material? If so,
> how/when is the best way to trim it?
>
> Joe F.
> (& don't get me started on the static electricity thing.)
>
>

Very soft fur is difficult to dub in this way, also, the stuff you are using
is really too long for this particular loop method. Use a beard trimmer,
or similar, to cut hair about 0.5 cm long. This will stand out better.

You can also cut the 1.5 cm long hair, twice, and achieve the same thing.
You get a lot more "blunt" ends sticking out, but that does not matter.

It is in any case much easier to use a dubbing block for such soft hair.
This is just a piece of wood with a groove in it, and a pin at one end (
headless finishing nail or similar).

Place the thread in the groove, lay your dubbing over it, spaced as you
require it, loop the thread over the nail, and back over the dubbing, ( you
can also use copper wire etc), and then simply twist the thread by letting
your hackle pliers ( with both ends of the thread), spin below the block.

When applying very long dubbing in a loop, then you must stroke the hair
back at every turn around the hook shank, ( just like you would for tying in
long hackles). This prevents too much of it folding under. You can brush it
up to stand out again when you are finished, using a piece of velcro on a
lolly stick.

TL
MC

[Mike Connor]

You should use metal tweezers for placing the dubbing either in the hanging
loop, or on the dubbing block. This eliminates a lot of static problems.
Doing it with your fingers can be a real pain.

Lastly, you can use a bulldog clip here to aid you. Clear plastic ones
which close accurately are the best. Although metal ones may be better if
you have problems with static.

Place the bulldog clip over the hair on the pelt which you wish to use. The
hair inside the bulldog clip should be slightly shorter than the length you
require. Now take your scissors, and cut along the hair, leaving at least a
millimetre or so sticking out of the clip.

Form your dubbing loop. Open it slightly, offer the clip up to the loop, and
allow the loop to close over the hair butts which are sticking out of the
clip. Pull the loop taut, remove the clip, and spin the loop tight.

This is easy to do, and results in dubbing with very short roots on one side
of the loop. This is easier to tie in without "folding" etc.

TL
MC

[Mike Connor]

Have a look here for better explanations;
http://www.mustad.no/flytying/fly_of_the_month/fly_of_m_may01.html

http://www.flyfield.com/hare3.htm

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/100702fotw.html

http://www.theflyfishingreport.com/Fly_Tiers_Forum/Troy/Fashionable_Fur_Collar.htm

Clips etc. are here;
http://www.flyfield.com/tools.htm

TL
MC

[Willi]

rb608 wrote:
> "Mike Connor" <Mike-Connor> wrote in message
>
>>It occurred to me, after reading your post again, and noticing that you
>>wrote "as I move down the loop", that you will find it a lot easier if
>
> you
>
>>keep the loop horizontal, when adding dubbing.
>
>
> Although I didn't actually mean "down" in my post, you are right about that
> horizontal thing. That's one tip I figured out myself the hard way. BTW,
> thanks for the links, though I'd already found 4 out of the 5.
>
> My present troubles seem to result from the dubbed fur being too long.
> After I get it spun in the loop & begin wrapping, I'm getting too much of
> the material wrapping itself around the hook shank when I want it sticking
> out for the body. I'm cutting very soft rabbit fur directly off the skin &
> it's about 1.5 cm long. Should I be using shorter material? If so,
> how/when is the best way to trim it?


Just play around with it. There's not a "right" way. Doing different
things will get you different results. All of them useful for one thing
or another. A couple things to play around with:

You will get a different finished product depending on how tightly you
spin the dubbing loop. Both a loosely and tightly spun loop are useful -
just different.

Different materials end up in a different dubbing noodle. Spikey - stiff
hair results in more material sticking out. I find squirrel body hair
very good for adding a spikey look. I often use a blend of natural and
synthetic material. The synthetics add some flash.

As you spin the noodle, you can either get the material to stand out by
brushing it back and forth with your fingers, or you can make it into a
piece of "yarn" by spinning the hair with your fingers like you would
when doing a traditional dubbed thread. If you do this several times as
you spin the noodle you'll have a very tight noodle that will result in
a nicely segmented body.

Willi

[Lat705]

Use the bull dog clip or magic tool to hold while you clip to length. >After
I get it spun in the loop & begin wrapping, I'm getting too much of
>the material wrapping itself around the hook shank when I want it sticking
>out for the body.

To keep the fur radial, put an empty bobin over the hook eye up to the place
where you want the dubbing to be. Easy if you have a rotary. It takes a
little agility if you don't.. By initialy placing the wrap on the bobbin tube
and using the end of that tube to keep the fur already wound radial insures a
good dubbing..

Lou T

[Big Dale]

Lou wrote:snip>Use the bull dog clip or magic tool to hold while you clip to
length. >

There was a thread a few days ago about Kim boal and her use of the magic tool.
She taught me a truick a few years ago about the bulldog clips, which are soo
poorly made that the edges only meet properly in a few places. She simply glued
thin foam on the edges and that fixed the problem. Like most things these
dubbing loops become easier as you get used to using them. I find that adding a
little rabbin to squirrel makes it somewhat easier to dubb. I find squirrel a
real pain to dub, but damn it gives such a pruty spikey texture that once you
master it, you will use it a bunch.

Big Dale

[rb608]

"Big Dale" > wrote in message
> She simply glued
> thin foam on the edges and that fixed the problem.

I was thinking that myself. Must have been one of them subliminal things.

> I find squirrel a
> real pain to dub, but damn it gives such a pruty spikey texture that once
you
> master it, you will use it a bunch.

Okey dokey. Thanks to you, Mike, & Lou, I'm getting a good grip on this (no
pun intended).

So let me go for the length issue one more time. I'm right handed, so I
take the scissors in my right hand and grap a clump of rabbit fur on the
pelt in my left. I cut off the clump at the base. I now have a clump of
3/4" hairs pinched in my left fingers. I want these to be 3/8" hairs.
Should I place the clump in the bulldog clip & cut them to size there
(before placing in the loop)? Also, should I attempt to evenly distribute
the hair in the clip or is it just as well to do it in the loop?

Joe F.

[Mike Connor]

OK. Instead of the foam glued to the bulldog clip blades. I split a piece
of rubber tubing along its length, and after applying super glue to the
blade edge, I place the tubing over it.

This grips better, and lasts longer than foam strips. Also, it is easier to
clean.

TL
MC

[Big Dale]

Mike wrote:>OK. Instead of the foam glued to the bulldog clip blades. I split
a piece
>of rubber tubing along its length, and after applying super glue to the
>blade edge, I place the tubing over it.
>
>This grips better, and lasts longer than foam strips. Also, it is easier to
>clean.
>
>TL
>MC
Thanks Mike. I will pick up some rubber tubing this morning.

Big Dale

[Mike Connor]

"Big Dale" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> Mike wrote:>OK. Instead of the foam glued to the bulldog clip blades. I
split
> a piece
> >of rubber tubing along its length, and after applying super glue to the
> >blade edge, I place the tubing over it.
> >
> >This grips better, and lasts longer than foam strips. Also, it is easier
to
> >clean.
> >
> >TL
> >MC
> Thanks Mike. I will pick up some rubber tubing this morning.
>
> Big Dale
>
>
The stuff I use is available im model-shops. It is used for something or
other on model aeroplanes. It is about 3mm outside diameter, and when split
longitudinally, ( xou can do this carefully with fine scissors), fits
perfectly over the thin edge of a lot of things. I also use it on the tips
of my hackle pliers ( I just cut two pieces off, and shove them over the
plier tips) It is better to have the rubber on both hackle-plier tips. This
gives very good grip, and also does not break delicate feathers etc.

TL
MC

[Mike Connor]

"Mike Connor" <Mike-Connor> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
s.com...

A couple of other tips which may be useful. If you only have one bulldog
clip, or even none at all! :)

One can use "wing burners" to hold hair etc. These are usually flat folded
brass strips. Just open them slightly, place the hair, etc, in them as
desired, and then hold them closed while offering up to the loop.

One may also make a small device consisting of two pieces of wood, metal
etc, hinged at the top. A piece of leather glued to both strips works as a
hinge. This device is opened, the hair is placed on one side, with enough
sticking out of the side to grasp it in a loop( one can also make complex
multi-dubbings etc using this), and then the device is closed again, and
held tight with a rubber band. Offer up to the loop, grip hair with the
loop, and then slip off the rubber band! The device falls away, leaving a
perfectly dubbed loop. This has the advantage of leaving both hands free to
manipulate etc. As the whole thing is much lighter than a bulldog clip.

Lastly, one may also use a piece of velcro glued to a stick. Place your
thread at the desired longitudinal position on the velcro. Add your hair,
dubbing, etc etc. Bring the thread over the top, (and over a small nail at
one end) and simply twist with a dubbing twirler. This makes a perfect
dubbing brush, and you have no loose hair flying about.

This is very good if you want to make a "bi-colour" hair hackle for
instance. Place your shorter black fur over the thread, pressing it into
the velcro, then add whatever the main colour fur is over this. Pull the
thread over, twist, and pull the dub loop off the velcro. One may achieve
very precise colouring effects, as the hair does not slip, or fly about.

For larger flies, and longer hairs etc, you can use a carding brush, instead
of velcro.

One requires a little practice with any of these techniques, but one may
also then achieve a large number of effects.

TL
MC

[daytripper]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:19:35 GMT, "Mike Connor" <Mike-Connor> wrote:

>
>"Big Dale" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
>> Mike wrote:>OK. Instead of the foam glued to the bulldog clip blades. I
>split
>> a piece
>> >of rubber tubing along its length, and after applying super glue to the
>> >blade edge, I place the tubing over it.
>> >
>> >This grips better, and lasts longer than foam strips. Also, it is easier
>to
>> >clean.
>> >
>> >TL
>> >MC
>> Thanks Mike. I will pick up some rubber tubing this morning.
>>
>> Big Dale
>>
>>
>The stuff I use is available im model-shops. It is used for something or
>other on model aeroplanes. It is about 3mm outside diameter, and when split
>longitudinally, ( xou can do this carefully with fine scissors), fits
>perfectly over the thin edge of a lot of things. I also use it on the tips
>of my hackle pliers ( I just cut two pieces off, and shove them over the
>plier tips) It is better to have the rubber on both hackle-plier tips. This
>gives very good grip, and also does not break delicate feathers etc.

3mm is too thin for fuel line, but it sounds like it may be the "inner"
control rod used between servos and control surfaces. These flexible rods are
comprised of an outer sleeve which is fixed to the fuselage, and a skinny
inner control rod, which in sliding conveys the action...

/daytripper

[Hooked]

"Mike Connor" > wrote in message
...
> OK. Instead of the foam glued to the bulldog clip blades. I split a piece
> of rubber tubing along its length, and after applying super glue to the
> blade edge, I place the tubing over it.
>
> This grips better, and lasts longer than foam strips. Also, it is easier
to
> clean.
>
> TL
> MC
>
>

And I was thinking of suggesting the use of a "Chip Clip." Those things got
to have a better purpose than just holding an opened bag of potato chips
closed. Although the tubing is set back pretty far from the edge. You'd
probably have to have some long fur for it to work.

[Ernie]

"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
> And I was thinking of suggesting the use of a "Chip Clip."
Those things got
> to have a better purpose than just holding an opened bag of
potato chips
> closed. Although the tubing is set back pretty far from the
edge. You'd
> probably have to have some long fur for it to work.

That would make a hell of a long dubbing loop.
Ernie

[Hooked]

"Ernie" > wrote in message
m...
>
>
> That would make a hell of a long dubbing loop.
> Ernie
>
>

I've seen some clips that were about 3 inches long.

Must be for those snack sized bags of chips. Buy the wrong chip and I betcha
can eat just one. :-)