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Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 06:40 AM
I am tying up some Mickey Finns using a braided mylar material that is
falling apart pretty easy. I've decided to coat the mylar in Softex to keep
the fishes teeth from fraying it. The only problem I'm running into is that
the Softex is not spreading around the hook very easy. The consistency is
not too thick (as compared to what it was like new) but it doesn't spread
too easy. Anybody have any ideas to make this a little easier?

Willi
February 23rd, 2004, 06:47 AM
Hooked wrote:

> I am tying up some Mickey Finns using a braided mylar material that is
> falling apart pretty easy. I've decided to coat the mylar in Softex to keep
> the fishes teeth from fraying it. The only problem I'm running into is that
> the Softex is not spreading around the hook very easy. The consistency is
> not too thick (as compared to what it was like new) but it doesn't spread
> too easy. Anybody have any ideas to make this a little easier?


Thin it with alcohol - the kind you get at the drug store.

Willi

Mike Connor
February 23rd, 2004, 07:30 AM
"Hooked" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> I am tying up some Mickey Finns using a braided mylar material that is
> falling apart pretty easy. I've decided to coat the mylar in Softex to
keep
> the fishes teeth from fraying it. The only problem I'm running into is
that
> the Softex is not spreading around the hook very easy. The consistency is
> not too thick (as compared to what it was like new) but it doesn't spread
> too easy. Anybody have any ideas to make this a little easier?
>
>

Tie the bodies up first, dip them in thinned softex, ( you can thin it down
with alcohol), let dry, and then complete the flies as normal.

Softex wont keep them from being frayed for long though. If you want them
really robust, use epoxy. Get the bodies finished, paint a thin coat of the
epoxy on, when dry, complete as usual. This makes them almost
indestructible. If you are just applying a thin protective coat, then you
wonīt get much "running" or sagging. Just stick them in a piece of foam to
dry.

If you use minimum 20 minute epoxy, and warm both components up before
mixing, ( wram water bath)then you can apply the resulting thin mixture just
like varnish. Try an experiment with a small amount of epoxy first. Warming
the components accelerates the set-up time very considerably. If the twenty
minute stuff is too fast, use 2 or 6 hour epoxy.

If the epoxy is too much mess on, then use "Hard as Nails" nail lacquer
with the nylon additive. This will still give a lot more protection than
Softex. If you are very careful, you can apply this to the finished flies,
just paint it on. Although I would still advise doing the bodies separately.

TL
MC

Mike Connor
February 23rd, 2004, 07:41 AM
"Mike Connor" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
>
> "Hooked" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> ...
> > I am tying up some Mickey Finns using a braided mylar material that is
> > falling apart pretty easy. I've decided to coat the mylar in Softex to
> keep
> > the fishes teeth from fraying it. The only problem I'm running into is
> that
> > the Softex is not spreading around the hook very easy. The consistency
is
> > not too thick (as compared to what it was like new) but it doesn't
spread
> > too easy. Anybody have any ideas to make this a little easier?
> >
> >
>
> Tie the bodies up first, dip them in thinned softex, ( you can thin it
down
> with alcohol), let dry, and then complete the flies as normal.
>
> Softex wont keep them from being frayed for long though. If you want them
> really robust, use epoxy. Get the bodies finished, paint a thin coat of
the
> epoxy on, when dry, complete as usual. This makes them almost
> indestructible. If you are just applying a thin protective coat, then you
> wonīt get much "running" or sagging. Just stick them in a piece of foam to
> dry.
>
> If you use minimum 20 minute epoxy, and warm both components up before
> mixing, ( wram water bath)then you can apply the resulting thin mixture
just
> like varnish. Try an experiment with a small amount of epoxy first.
Warming
> the components accelerates the set-up time very considerably. If the
twenty
> minute stuff is too fast, use 2 or 6 hour epoxy.
>
> If the epoxy is too much mess on, then use "Hard as Nails" nail lacquer
> with the nylon additive. This will still give a lot more protection than
> Softex. If you are very careful, you can apply this to the finished
flies,
> just paint it on. Although I would still advise doing the bodies
separately.
>
> TL
> MC
>

A couple of things I forgot;

Softex will dull down the mylar quite a bit, and may also dissolve it.

The epoxy will also dull down the mylar somewhat, and may also yellow in
time. This is not usually a major problem, and may even enhance the fly, as
even a thin coat seems to add "depth" to the structure.

The "Hard as Nails" will also attack plastic, but as it is quickly applied,
and also quick drying, it does not normally have such a bad effect. I have
not had it turn yellow either.

TL
MC

Sierra fisher
February 23rd, 2004, 07:58 AM
Alcohol may thin softex, but the preferred thinner in toluene. Becasue of
liabilties, Icon Prod will not tell you this; they just say "read the
bottle", and it gives you a warning about the presence of toluene.


"Willi" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Hooked wrote:
>
> > I am tying up some Mickey Finns using a braided mylar material that is
> > falling apart pretty easy. I've decided to coat the mylar in Softex to
keep
> > the fishes teeth from fraying it. The only problem I'm running into is
that
> > the Softex is not spreading around the hook very easy. The consistency
is
> > not too thick (as compared to what it was like new) but it doesn't
spread
> > too easy. Anybody have any ideas to make this a little easier?
>
>
> Thin it with alcohol - the kind you get at the drug store.
>
> Willi
>
>


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Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 08:07 AM
"Mike Connor" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Connor" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> ...
> >
> >
> > Tie the bodies up first, dip them in thinned softex, ( you can thin it
> down
> > with alcohol), let dry, and then complete the flies as normal.
> >
> > Softex wont keep them from being frayed for long though. If you want
them
> > really robust, use epoxy. Get the bodies finished, paint a thin coat of
> the
> > epoxy on, when dry, complete as usual. This makes them almost
> > indestructible. If you are just applying a thin protective coat, then
you
> > wonīt get much "running" or sagging. Just stick them in a piece of foam
to
> > dry.
> >
> > If you use minimum 20 minute epoxy, and warm both components up before
> > mixing, ( wram water bath)then you can apply the resulting thin mixture
> just
> > like varnish. Try an experiment with a small amount of epoxy first.
> Warming
> > the components accelerates the set-up time very considerably. If the
> twenty
> > minute stuff is too fast, use 2 or 6 hour epoxy.
> >
> > If the epoxy is too much mess on, then use "Hard as Nails" nail lacquer
> > with the nylon additive. This will still give a lot more protection than
> > Softex. If you are very careful, you can apply this to the finished
> flies,
> > just paint it on. Although I would still advise doing the bodies
> separately.
> >
> > TL
> > MC
>
> A couple of things I forgot;
>
> Softex will dull down the mylar quite a bit, and may also dissolve it.
>
> The epoxy will also dull down the mylar somewhat, and may also yellow in
> time. This is not usually a major problem, and may even enhance the fly,
as
> even a thin coat seems to add "depth" to the structure.
>
> The "Hard as Nails" will also attack plastic, but as it is quickly
applied,
> and also quick drying, it does not normally have such a bad effect. I have
> not had it turn yellow either.
>
> TL
> MC

What I am trying to do is protect the mylar and at the same time build up
the body some. I want to give it a clear overcoat that might help
deflect/refract the light a little. As far as the Softex not protecting the
body, I think it will do ok. I just don't want them falling apart after the
first fish. I'd use epoxy, but I think the Softex will give them a softer
feel. When I get around to doing up some pike size MFinns, I'll probably use
the epoxy. Although using the craft fur for a wing may not stand up top a
pike.

I guess the use of alcohol for a thinner would be the answer to my problems.
I just did up another one and applied it in a thicker coat without thinning.
The last time the body material seemed to absorb the first coat. I'll see
how this one comes out and then try thinning the stuff a bit.

How much alcohol would you suggest to use? I have about 2/3 of a 100ml jar
left.

Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 08:12 AM
"Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
...
> Alcohol may thin softex, but the preferred thinner in toluene. Becasue
of
> liabilties, Icon Prod will not tell you this; they just say "read the
> bottle", and it gives you a warning about the presence of toluene.
>


You're right. It does. I guess I'll have to make a trip to the hardware
store tomorrow. If I can get my truck back from the fix it shop in time
first.

How much toluene does it take to thin a 2/3 jar of Softex?

Mike Connor
February 23rd, 2004, 10:22 AM
"Hooked" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
<SNIP>
> I guess the use of alcohol for a thinner would be the answer to my
problems.
> I just did up another one and applied it in a thicker coat without
thinning.
> The last time the body material seemed to absorb the first coat. I'll see
> how this one comes out and then try thinning the stuff a bit.
>
> How much alcohol would you suggest to use? I have about 2/3 of a 100ml jar
> left.
>

I tied up quite a few baitfish imitations, and used Softex to coat the
bodies. I was mainly using pearl mylar on a shaped floss underbody. It did
not turn out quite as nicely as I had hoped, there was very little "flash"
left after coating. I still caught a few fish on them though. However,
after two fish at the most, the flies were pretty shredded. These were quite
toothy seafish however. ( Whiting).

You only need a little alcohol to change the consistency quite a lot. If
you want to be safe, tip some softex into another pot, and thin it in that.
At least that way you donīt ruin all of it if anything goes wrong.

If you do it in the original jar, just add a couple of drops at a time, and
stir well, until you are satisfied with the results.

TL
MC

Mike Connor
February 23rd, 2004, 10:30 AM
"Hooked" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> "Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Alcohol may thin softex, but the preferred thinner in toluene. Becasue
> of
> > liabilties, Icon Prod will not tell you this; they just say "read the
> > bottle", and it gives you a warning about the presence of toluene.
> >
>
>
> You're right. It does. I guess I'll have to make a trip to the hardware
> store tomorrow. If I can get my truck back from the fix it shop in time
> first.
>
> How much toluene does it take to thin a 2/3 jar of Softex?
>
>

Toluene will thin Softex as well, ( probably better than alcohol, but
alcohol does work),but be very careful with it, it is dangerous stuff. See
here;
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/safework/cis/products/icsc/dtasht/_icsc00/icsc0078.htm

Do the same as for the alcohol, just mix a few drops at a time until you
achieve the desired consistency.

TL
MC

Mike Connor
February 23rd, 2004, 11:02 AM
"Mike Connor" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> > How much toluene does it take to thin a 2/3 jar of Softex?
> >

You wont normally need more than 10ml. This will thin down even a new jar.
It takes longer to set of course, sags more easily, and gives off far more
fumes. Do the work in a well ventilated area.

Agreed, alcohol is not quite so good, but it will work, and is far less
dangerous.


One tip which might be useful to you, is how to make your own "softex".

Obtain a tube of "LEXEL" clear acrylic caulking, ( I have not used this
brand myself, I use a German brand, but a guy who I gave the tip to in the
USA mailed me to say that was what he used, after looking around for some,
and it worked perfectly) . Or any really good brand of clear acrylic
caulking. Make sure it is clear, and not white! ( The cheapest ones are not
quite so good). Thin it with 100% mineral spirits. To the desired
consistency.

One may also apparently use ordinary lacquer thinners, but I have not tried
this personally.

Do the mixing in a well ventilated room of course, well away from any
ignition sources.

This dries clear and flexible, and can be used for all sorts of things. One
can use it for layering clear bodies. Dipping the heads on polar fibre
minnows, shellbacks ,much like "Goop", for strengthening wings, etc etc etc.

You can also use the coloured acrylics, but of course the clear is most
useful. Some of the metallics look as though they might be very useful
indeed, and I am experimenting with a couple of these right now.This stuff
works out very cheaply indeed, whereas Softex is pretty expensive. I made
five 100 ml bottles of it, ( you need good quality tightly sealable bottles
by the way), for about four Euros, and still have most of the mineral
spirits left. The standard tubes usually contain 250ml of caulking. The
spirits can be obtained alsmost anywhere quite cheaply. The total cost was
roughly five dollars, ( reckoning one Euro is roughly one dollar) including
the bottles.

TL
MC

Mike Connor
February 23rd, 2004, 11:09 AM
You can find more info here;
http://www.sashco.com/home_improvement/pdffiles/lexel_brochure.pdf

And a google search will turn up plenty of suppliers. Just type in "LEXEL
clear acrylic caulking"

TL
MC

Mike Connor
February 23rd, 2004, 11:28 AM
Sorry about all the posts, but there is one last important point. Whatever
brand of acrylic you decide to use, it must be solvent based, as you will
otherwise have trouble thinning it properly. Normally, the recommended
solvents will be printed on the tube, cartridge whatever.

Also, the "standard" size of caulking tubes and cartridges may be different
in the USA.

TL
MC

Mike Connor
February 23rd, 2004, 11:49 AM
Oh well! Forgot some other points as well, which might be of general
interest. You can colour this stuff with normal acrylic paints, including
the translucent types. You can mix in "glitter" and other stuff quite
easily. You can also paint it afterwards.

You can "embed" eyes, or weights and such in it. ( Small steel washers,
sequins, etc make perfect "eyes" for baitfish), and still put a protective
layer over everything as it bonds perfectly to itself, and remains clear.

As we are only using small amounts at a time here, and relatively small
cross-sections, it dries very quickly. ( although this of course depends on
the solvent, and how much you thinned it down).It can be easily cut with a
sharp knife even when set. ( Important for cleaning out hook eyes etc) It is
much tougher than silicone, and it will withstand sal****er for a very long
time.

I am at present experimenting with thinning it down as much as possible, for
use as a "permanent" waterproofing agent for some dry flies. It works on
beetles and one or two other things, but I have not yet found out how to
shake the excess material off hackles and the like. They clog of course when
dipped.

If anybody else is experimenting along these lines, or commences to do so, I
would be most grateful for any feedback.

TL
MC

Charlie Choc
February 23rd, 2004, 01:07 PM
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 05:40:31 GMT, "Hooked" > wrote:

> Anybody have any ideas to make this a little easier?
>
I use Softex for 'epoxy' baitfish, and I just dip the fly in the
Softex and then clean off the hook eye with a razor blade after it
dries. You could do the same thing on a Mickey Finn before you add the
wing. It helps, too, if you have some way of rotating the fly as it
dries, I use a piece of styrofoam in a rod turner to stick the fly on.
--
Charlie...

Willi
February 23rd, 2004, 03:26 PM
Sierra fisher wrote:
> Alcohol may thin softex, but the preferred thinner in toluene. Becasue of
> liabilties, Icon Prod will not tell you this; they just say "read the
> bottle", and it gives you a warning about the presence of toluene.


I gave bad informatiom - wrong product. The stuff I use is Clear Hard
Head by Loon. It is an alcohol based product. It dries hard like epoxy
but is much easier to work with.

Willi

Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 05:37 PM
"Mike Connor" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Toluene will thin Softex as well, ( probably better than alcohol, but
> alcohol does work),but be very careful with it, it is dangerous stuff.
See
> here;
>
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/safework/cis/products/icsc/dtasht/_icsc00/icsc0078.htm
>
> Do the same as for the alcohol, just mix a few drops at a time until you
> achieve the desired consistency.
>


After checking out the page you posted the URL to, I think I'll try the
alcohol. I don't need any more chemicals laying around the house. At least
not something as bad as that stuff.

And thanks for all the follow up tips too.

Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 05:41 PM
"Willi" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I gave bad informatiom - wrong product. The stuff I use is Clear Hard
> Head by Loon. It is an alcohol based product. It dries hard like epoxy
> but is much easier to work with.
>

I started tying a bass/pike sized (size 2) Mickey Finn this morning. I
coated that with Loons Hard Head. After heating the bottle cap to get it
off, and thinning it with alcohol anyway.

I wonder how Dave's Flexament might work?

Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 05:48 PM
"Charlie Choc" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 05:40:31 GMT, "Hooked" > wrote:
>
> I use Softex for 'epoxy' baitfish, and I just dip the fly in the
> Softex and then clean off the hook eye with a razor blade after it
> dries. You could do the same thing on a Mickey Finn before you add the
> wing. It helps, too, if you have some way of rotating the fly as it
> dries, I use a piece of styrofoam in a rod turner to stick the fly on.
> --


I've been putting it on with a toothpick. Dab a bunch on and then rotate the
vice while holding the toothpick parallel to the fly body to make it flow
around the hook shank and try to even it out a bit. I think if I thin it
out, I'll get better results. I guess I could tie off the tread and dip
them, but that sounds like too much work. Then I have to tie on again...

Sierra fisher
February 23rd, 2004, 05:54 PM
I looked up isopropyl-alcohol on the same web page and it reads almost
verbatim to toluene. Not much to choose from. Unless you're going to use
some of you drinking alcohol (ethyl-alcohol)

for isopropyl-alcohol, go here

http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/safework/cis/products/icsc/dtasht/_icsc05/icsc0554.htm



"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
> "Mike Connor" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Toluene will thin Softex as well, ( probably better than alcohol, but
> > alcohol does work),but be very careful with it, it is dangerous stuff.
> See
> > here;
> >
>
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/safework/cis/products/icsc/dtasht/_icsc00/icsc0078.htm
> >
> > Do the same as for the alcohol, just mix a few drops at a time until you
> > achieve the desired consistency.
> >
>
>
> After checking out the page you posted the URL to, I think I'll try the
> alcohol. I don't need any more chemicals laying around the house. At least
> not something as bad as that stuff.
>
> And thanks for all the follow up tips too.
>
>


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Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 06:10 PM
"Sierra fisher" > wrote in message
...
> I looked up isopropyl-alcohol on the same web page and it reads almost
> verbatim to toluene. Not much to choose from. Unless you're going to use
> some of you drinking alcohol (ethyl-alcohol)
>
> for isopropyl-alcohol, go here
>
>
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/safework/cis/products/icsc/dtasht/_icsc05/icsc0554.htm
>


So the toluene is not much worse than the isopropyl-alcohol. Hmmmm...

But I can get the alcohol just about anywhere, and the toluene is only
available at the hardware store.

Well, if I have a can of mineral spirits sitting on a shelf in the dining
room closet, a bottle of alcohol on my tying desk, I guess I could get the
toluene (the stuff that is used for thinning Softex) and keep that in the
medicine cabinet.

Actually I think I'll get the toluene, use it and put that and the mineral
spirits out in the garage where they belong. Right next to the gas can and
all the other flammable/explosive chemicals I have out there. :-)

Charlie Choc
February 23rd, 2004, 06:28 PM
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:10:36 GMT, "Hooked" > wrote:

>So the toluene is not much worse than the isopropyl-alcohol. Hmmmm...
>
Sure, ask any glue sniffer - if you can find one that can still talk.
--
Charlie...

Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 06:39 PM
"Charlie Choc" > wrote in message
...
>
> Sure, ask any glue sniffer - if you can find one that can still talk.
> --


I say blame the damned chemical companies. They're the ones making life much
easier for all of us.

Charlie Choc
February 23rd, 2004, 06:59 PM
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:39:12 GMT, "Hooked" > wrote:

>"Charlie Choc" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Sure, ask any glue sniffer - if you can find one that can still talk.
>> --
>
>
>I say blame the damned chemical companies. They're the ones making life much
>easier for all of us.
>
Blame who you want, but toluene inhalation can cause irreversible
brain damage. Not likely in the amount you'll be using but thinking
that toluene is no more dangerous than isopropyl alcohol may not make
you careful enough.
--
Charlie...

Scott Seidman
February 23rd, 2004, 07:12 PM
Charlie Choc > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:39:12 GMT, "Hooked" > wrote:
>
>>"Charlie Choc" > wrote in
>>message ...
>>>
>>> Sure, ask any glue sniffer - if you can find one that can still
>>> talk. --
>>
>>
>>I say blame the damned chemical companies. They're the ones making
>>life much easier for all of us.
>>
> Blame who you want, but toluene inhalation can cause irreversible
> brain damage. Not likely in the amount you'll be using but thinking
> that toluene is no more dangerous than isopropyl alcohol may not make
> you careful enough.

In the amounts we're talking about, is adding toluene any more dangerous
than using toluene-based stuff in the first place??

Scott

Charlie Choc
February 23rd, 2004, 07:21 PM
On 23 Feb 2004 18:12:25 GMT, Scott Seidman
> wrote:

>In the amounts we're talking about, is adding toluene any more dangerous
>than using toluene-based stuff in the first place??
>
If you spill a quart on the floor it is. That's when you need to know
that toluene is more dangerous than isopropyl alcohol.
--
Charlie...

Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 07:23 PM
"Charlie Choc" > wrote in message
...
>
> Blame who you want, but toluene inhalation can cause irreversible
> brain damage. Not likely in the amount you'll be using but thinking
> that toluene is no more dangerous than isopropyl alcohol may not make
> you careful enough.
> --


I'll bet I get one whiff of the stuff and I'll know it's a lot worse than
alcohol in that respect. I was only referring to the MSDS pages that were
posted above about how volatile the stuff is, and about storing it in the
house. They are almost compatible in flammability and explosiveness. (But
then again, that would probably depend upon the air mix ratio and flash
point of each.)

Scott Seidman
February 23rd, 2004, 07:23 PM
Scott Seidman > wrote in
. 1.4:

> Charlie Choc > wrote in
> :
>
>> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:39:12 GMT, "Hooked" > wrote:
>>
>>>"Charlie Choc" > wrote in
>>>message ...
>>>>
>>>> Sure, ask any glue sniffer - if you can find one that can still
>>>> talk. --
>>>
>>>
>>>I say blame the damned chemical companies. They're the ones making
>>>life much easier for all of us.
>>>
>> Blame who you want, but toluene inhalation can cause irreversible
>> brain damage. Not likely in the amount you'll be using but thinking
>> that toluene is no more dangerous than isopropyl alcohol may not make
>> you careful enough.
>
> In the amounts we're talking about, is adding toluene any more dangerous
> than using toluene-based stuff in the first place??
>
> Scott
>

As a follow up, on examining the MSDS, both toluene and isopropyl alcohol
have health risk numbers of two (moderate). Exposure limits for alcohol is
200 ppm TWA, and 100ppm for toluene, and those numbers are basically for
constant exposure during an 8 hour shift. Neither substance is a known
carcinogen.

Obvious intentional abuse aside, MSDS examination doesn't suggest that
toluene is much more dangerous than alcohol

Scott

Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 07:25 PM
"Scott Seidman" > wrote in message
. 1.4...
>
> In the amounts we're talking about, is adding toluene any more dangerous
> than using toluene-based stuff in the first place??
>


I would imagine that if you left a pint sized can of toluene open on a table
as compared to a jar of Softex, yes.

Hooked
February 23rd, 2004, 07:36 PM
"Scott Seidman" > wrote in message
. 1.4...
>
> >snip<<
>The toll free number
> for the US Coast Guard National Response Center is (800) 424-8802.
>

Why the Coast Guard?

Wouldn't I be better off calling the local Fire Dept. Hazmat Team?

Charlie Choc
February 23rd, 2004, 07:40 PM
On 23 Feb 2004 18:23:44 GMT, Scott Seidman
> wrote:

>Obvious intentional abuse aside, MSDS examination doesn't suggest that
>toluene is much more dangerous than alcohol
>
OK. If you're comfortable treating them the same, I'm comfortable with
you treating them the same. <g>
--
Charlie...

John Lindsey
February 23rd, 2004, 09:10 PM
Once upon a time I asked John K. Softex's owner, what to use to thin Softex.
He said nothing - just buy another jar LOL!

I used toluene and it worked just fine!
Good luck.
John

PS stir it in slowly - shaking introduces bubbles that do not all dissipate.

"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
> I am tying up some Mickey Finns using a braided mylar material that is
> falling apart pretty easy. I've decided to coat the mylar in Softex to
keep
> the fishes teeth from fraying it. The only problem I'm running into is
that
> the Softex is not spreading around the hook very easy. The consistency is
> not too thick (as compared to what it was like new) but it doesn't spread
> too easy. Anybody have any ideas to make this a little easier?
>
>

Mike Connor
February 23rd, 2004, 09:52 PM
<SNIP>
> After checking out the page you posted the URL to, I think I'll try the
> alcohol. I don't need any more chemicals laying around the house. At least
> not something as bad as that stuff.
>
> And thanks for all the follow up tips too.
>
>

The hazard sheets may appear similar, but I would rather smell or drink
alcohol than Toluene anyday! :)

The acrylic sealant ( caulking) is really very good, and you can use
ordinary lacquer thinners, or mineral spirits to thin it at will.

Nowadays tying benches are full of chemicals. Some of them quite dangerous.
It pays to be careful.

My pleasure, I hope the tips help you and others.

TL
MC

Big Dale
February 23rd, 2004, 10:11 PM
Charlie wrote:>>So the toluene is not much worse than the isopropyl-alcohol.
Hmmmm...
>>
>Sure, ask any glue sniffer - if you can find one that can still talk.
>--
>Charlie...
>

I love the smell of toluene in the morning.

Big Dale

daytripper
February 24th, 2004, 12:32 AM
On 23 Feb 2004 21:11:53 GMT, (Big Dale) wrote:

>Charlie wrote:>>So the toluene is not much worse than the isopropyl-alcohol.
>Hmmmm...
>>>
>>Sure, ask any glue sniffer - if you can find one that can still talk.
>>--
>>Charlie...
>>
>
>I love the smell of toluene in the morning.

;-)

/daytripper (who prefers a kinder, gentler, herbal awakening...)

Sierra fisher
February 24th, 2004, 01:56 AM
John was at our last conclave in Tahoe; he recommended that you buy two
jars, and leave the lid of one off for awhile to thicken. Then you could
use the thick stuff for bodies, etc and the thin for glueing. It's great
stuff for working with lines, such as making braided leader loops. At least
he was selling it at a wholesale price at the conclave


"John Lindsey" > wrote in message
...
> Once upon a time I asked John K. Softex's owner, what to use to thin
Softex.
> He said nothing - just buy another jar LOL!
>
> I used toluene and it worked just fine!
> Good luck.
> John
>
> PS stir it in slowly - shaking introduces bubbles that do not all
dissipate.
>
> "Hooked" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am tying up some Mickey Finns using a braided mylar material that is
> > falling apart pretty easy. I've decided to coat the mylar in Softex to
> keep
> > the fishes teeth from fraying it. The only problem I'm running into is
> that
> > the Softex is not spreading around the hook very easy. The consistency
is
> > not too thick (as compared to what it was like new) but it doesn't
spread
> > too easy. Anybody have any ideas to make this a little easier?
> >
> >
>
>


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Larry and a cat named Dub
February 28th, 2004, 01:39 PM
Coat the out side threads of the bottle with vasoline this should help
"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
> "Willi" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > I gave bad informatiom - wrong product. The stuff I use is Clear Hard
> > Head by Loon. It is an alcohol based product. It dries hard like epoxy
> > but is much easier to work with.
> >
>
> I started tying a bass/pike sized (size 2) Mickey Finn this morning. I
> coated that with Loons Hard Head. After heating the bottle cap to get it
> off, and thinning it with alcohol anyway.
>
> I wonder how Dave's Flexament might work?
>
>

Larry and a cat named Dub
February 28th, 2004, 01:39 PM
FWIW I have been told the devcon brand 5 minute epoxy don't yellow like the
others just this week in a tying class
"Hooked" > wrote in message
...
> "Mike Connor" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Mike Connor" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > Tie the bodies up first, dip them in thinned softex, ( you can thin it
> > down
> > > with alcohol), let dry, and then complete the flies as normal.
> > >
> > > Softex wont keep them from being frayed for long though. If you want
> them
> > > really robust, use epoxy. Get the bodies finished, paint a thin coat
of
> > the
> > > epoxy on, when dry, complete as usual. This makes them almost
> > > indestructible. If you are just applying a thin protective coat, then
> you
> > > wonīt get much "running" or sagging. Just stick them in a piece of
foam
> to
> > > dry.
> > >
> > > If you use minimum 20 minute epoxy, and warm both components up
before
> > > mixing, ( wram water bath)then you can apply the resulting thin
mixture
> > just
> > > like varnish. Try an experiment with a small amount of epoxy first.
> > Warming
> > > the components accelerates the set-up time very considerably. If the
> > twenty
> > > minute stuff is too fast, use 2 or 6 hour epoxy.
> > >
> > > If the epoxy is too much mess on, then use "Hard as Nails" nail
lacquer
> > > with the nylon additive. This will still give a lot more protection
than
> > > Softex. If you are very careful, you can apply this to the finished
> > flies,
> > > just paint it on. Although I would still advise doing the bodies
> > separately.
> > >
> > > TL
> > > MC
> >
> > A couple of things I forgot;
> >
> > Softex will dull down the mylar quite a bit, and may also dissolve it.
> >
> > The epoxy will also dull down the mylar somewhat, and may also yellow in
> > time. This is not usually a major problem, and may even enhance the fly,
> as
> > even a thin coat seems to add "depth" to the structure.
> >
> > The "Hard as Nails" will also attack plastic, but as it is quickly
> applied,
> > and also quick drying, it does not normally have such a bad effect. I
have
> > not had it turn yellow either.
> >
> > TL
> > MC
>
> What I am trying to do is protect the mylar and at the same time build up
> the body some. I want to give it a clear overcoat that might help
> deflect/refract the light a little. As far as the Softex not protecting
the
> body, I think it will do ok. I just don't want them falling apart after
the
> first fish. I'd use epoxy, but I think the Softex will give them a softer
> feel. When I get around to doing up some pike size MFinns, I'll probably
use
> the epoxy. Although using the craft fur for a wing may not stand up top a
> pike.
>
> I guess the use of alcohol for a thinner would be the answer to my
problems.
> I just did up another one and applied it in a thicker coat without
thinning.
> The last time the body material seemed to absorb the first coat. I'll see
> how this one comes out and then try thinning the stuff a bit.
>
> How much alcohol would you suggest to use? I have about 2/3 of a 100ml jar
> left.
>
>

Hooked
March 1st, 2004, 12:13 AM
"Larry and a cat named Dub" <hdyman58 > wrote in message
m...
> Coat the out side threads of the bottle with vasoline this should help


I did once. Just got all messed up again after use.

It's not too much of a problem getting out the old sauce pan and boiling
some water and dipping the jar/bottle in for a few seconds. Although, that
may shorten the life of the product if done too often.

Last time I used the Softex (a few days ago) I didn't coat the threads with
anything and the next day, they were fine. Couldn't say as much for the Loon
Hard Head though. And the Dave's Flexament, which I haven't used in a couple
of years, I'll probably never get the lid off. Which means the jar of Dave's
Flexament Thinner I bought will last a lot longer.

Hooked
March 1st, 2004, 12:15 AM
"Larry and a cat named Dub" <hdyman58 > wrote in message
m...
> FWIW I have been told the devcon brand 5 minute epoxy don't yellow like
the
> others just this week in a tying class

I've read that all epoxy will yellow after a given amount of time, but the
longer curing stuff will also take longer to yellow.