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View Full Version : I need some fish hook info from you. Thanks!


mario
October 20th, 2003, 01:29 AM
Hi.

I'm from Poland.
I'm interested about hook manufacturing.

Where I can find more about firms who product machines for hook
manufacturing?
I would like to start small business in my county. Nothing big, just to pay
my school for next 2 years.

I search google but all I get is firms that sell hooks.
I can't find any firm that sell machine, machine that
make/produce/manufacture hooks.

Can someone give me advice about this!

Thanks in advance!

Rodney
October 20th, 2003, 04:10 AM
mario wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I'm from Poland.
> I'm interested about hook manufacturing.

WEll I have some bad news for you
>
> Where I can find more about firms who product machines for hook
> manufacturing?

No where in the world, all hook machines are custom built "in-house" by
the 5,, yes there are "only 5", hook manufacturers in the world. These 5
companies make all the hooks of the 100 or so brands that are on the
market in the world. Other hooks companies "design" the hooks they want
to sell and these 5 manufacturers make the hooks for them.

Just for your information, a hook machine cost around 500,000 dollars to
build. A single hook die for just one style hook can run up to 30,000
dollars

If your thinking about having some made for you, their minimum order is
100,000 dollars U.S.

> I would like to start small business in my county. Nothing big, just to pay
> my school for next 2 years.

May I suggest you get into making weights, or tying flies, and or jigs .

Even if you could make your own machine, you would have two problems

1. It would be impossible for you to compete price wise with companies
that make millions, and millions of hooks. Their hooks retail for 1/5
what yours would cost to make.

2. Forming the hook is only half the job, tempering the hooks, is the
most guarded secret in the industrialized world, you could find out how
to build a H-bomb, easier, than getting the procedure for the proper
tempering of fishing hooks, and that's just for one style hook, there
are many different tempers for different hooks and the metals they are
made from, each of the 5 companies guard this information, more than the
secrets of governments are guarded


>
> I search google but all I get is firms that sell hooks.
> I can't find any firm that sell machine, machine that
> make/produce/manufacture hooks.

That's because there are NONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Can someone give me advice about this!

I just did :-)
>
> Thanks in advance!

Your welcome


--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks ,
Straight Up Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights,
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

October 21st, 2003, 07:11 AM
The people in your neck of the woods I'd talk to would be VMC, some of the
stuff they use has been used in the factory for a long time, and they just
may be able to help you start. Also I'd take a few metallurgy classes.

Rodney
October 21st, 2003, 04:56 PM
wrote:

> The people in your neck of the woods I'd talk to would be VMC, some of the
> stuff they use has been used in the factory for a long time, and they just
> may be able to help you start.

You will be surprised at their "lack" of help they will give, and nearly
all hook machines are very old, they use 75 year old technology, that is
still protected by trade secrets


> Also I'd take a few metallurgy classes.

Sorry but hook tempering is not taught, and in the last twenty years
there have been three attempts to start new hook companies, all three
failed (after spending millions) just because they could not temper the
hooks properly, They could not find a single person they could hire (or
steal from another company) that knew how, they tried and tried, but
they could not do it.



--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks ,
Straight Up Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights,
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

Bob La Londe
October 22nd, 2003, 05:20 AM
"Rodney" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
> > The people in your neck of the woods I'd talk to would be VMC, some of
the
> > stuff they use has been used in the factory for a long time, and they
just
> > may be able to help you start.
>
> You will be surprised at their "lack" of help they will give, and nearly
> all hook machines are very old, they use 75 year old technology, that is
> still protected by trade secrets
>
>
> > Also I'd take a few metallurgy classes.
>
> Sorry but hook tempering is not taught, and in the last twenty years
> there have been three attempts to start new hook companies, all three
> failed (after spending millions) just because they could not temper the
> hooks properly, They could not find a single person they could hire (or
> steal from another company) that knew how, they tried and tried, but
> they could not do it.
>
>
>

I would think that some of the techniques used to harden other small metal
parts like gun mechanisms would lend themselves to hook making.

I think I would atleast ask around to see if the local colleges have any
really cool metallurgy guys teaching in their vocational type classes.


--
Bob La Londe
Yuma, Az
http://www.YumaBassMan.com
Promote Your Fishing, Boating, or Guide Site for Free
Simply add it to our index page.
No reciprocal link required. (Requested, but not required)

The Fishing Guy
October 22nd, 2003, 06:26 AM
If you are looking online for information try different approaches to
your searches. Ask a friend to search for you and see if they come up
with different results. Sometimes you just have to know the right
catch-phrase to find search results for less common topics. I have a
couple of friends I rely on to do the same thing for me when I have
problems finding info I want online. Asking a friend has led to many
successes just because they maybe used one or two works different than
what I did in my search.

You might find some business advocacy groups that may help you find
the information and resources you are looking for. In the US, as an
example, there is the Small Business Association. This group has
helped many people plan, initiate, and run businesses that were
previously just dreams. You may find similar groups in your
city/state etc.

Two words of caution.
(1) You may very well find a way to nudge into the "hook" industry
and be successful. Despite how hard it seems from reading other
posts. If this is your "dream" go for it.

(2) This is probably much more involved than just "making" hooks to
pay for school. If you are looking for quick (or quicker) money for
school you may want to look elsewhere. Hook making is manufacturing.
Manufacturing usually turns out to be a very involved business.

If you were to make hooks (and beat the odds other posters have given
you) then you have to sell them. You'd probably have to sell a lot to
pay for coffee during your in-between class breaks. This takes a lot
of time writing letters, sending letters, writing emails, sending
emails, replying to letters and emails, calling people, working the
streets, visiting local businesses, visiting far away businesses,
creating brochures, testing and comparing your product against others
and complying with international (or national) requirements for hooks.

I'm not "negative" on the idea. Just providing a different angle.

I wish you the best of luck! If you end up making hooks maybe post
here. I'd be one of the first to give yours a try!! I hope this
helps.

***************
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:29:49 +0200, "mario" >
wrote:

>Hi.
>
>I'm from Poland.
>I'm interested about hook manufacturing.
>
>Where I can find more about firms who product machines for hook
>manufacturing?
>I would like to start small business in my county. Nothing big, just to pay
>my school for next 2 years.
>
>I search google but all I get is firms that sell hooks.
>I can't find any firm that sell machine, machine that
>make/produce/manufacture hooks.
>
>Can someone give me advice about this!
>
>Thanks in advance!
>

Rodney
October 22nd, 2003, 04:08 PM
Bob La Londe wrote:


>
>
> I would think that some of the techniques used to harden other small metal
> parts like gun mechanisms would lend themselves to hook making.

So did these other companies, but they were badly mistaken

(the last one invested 20 million dollars in tooling and start up cost)

Unlike gun parts, hooks must have to allow some bend in them, (yet their
points must be rock hard) because of the very small wire diameter, it is
very precise in the temperature (to the degree for each wire Dia.) how
long it takes to get to that degree, how long it must stay there, and
the rate of cooling and/or re-heating. Even how much of the wire is
touching a surface while all this is going on. The biggest thing is
each hook must be the same temper for the style it is, each batch must
be all the same, and one batch done 20 years ago must match the batch
done yesterday.

This is not for the hobbyist, or the small business man.

The hook companies will not temper "your" hooks for you either, I have
tried to get them to do this. They will only do the hooks they
manufacture for you
>
> I think I would atleast ask around to see if the local colleges have any
> really cool metallurgy guys teaching in their vocational type classes.

Perhaps someone could figure it out, but it would cost a lot of money to
do so, and a lot of time, with no guaranties

There are other things this young man can manufacture in fishing for his
small business, with out the extremely high start up cost, and highly
skilled training that will not be taught to anyone.

Like I suggested, he can tie flies, make weights, and/or custom lures
Heck he can build a better rod holder, or even make custom fishing rods,
Making hooks are not for the the little people like him and me, or even
the mega companies that want to compete with the existing players



--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks ,
Straight Up Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights,
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

Rodney
October 22nd, 2003, 04:19 PM
The Fishing Guy wrote:


>
> I'm not "negative" on the idea. Just providing a different angle.

I'm just showing him the "FACTS" involved, I know these facts from
spending a year "inside" the hook making business. From spending a year
working with True Turn/Daiichi to get my new hook design manufactured.

I was like him, thinking that we could just build our own manufacturing
facility for them.

I just saved him a year of wasting his time



--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks ,
Straight Up Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights,
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

Bob La Londe
October 23rd, 2003, 01:35 AM
"Rodney" > wrote in message
...
> The Fishing Guy wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I'm not "negative" on the idea. Just providing a different angle.
>
> I'm just showing him the "FACTS" involved, I know these facts from
> spending a year "inside" the hook making business. From spending a year
> working with True Turn/Daiichi to get my new hook design manufactured.
>
> I was like him, thinking that we could just build our own manufacturing
> facility for them.
>
> I just saved him a year of wasting his time
>

So why doesn't Daichi make a Tru Turn worm hook with a Z-bend. I actually
tookt he time to get set up with Daichi only to discover that I like the
Eagle Claw rotating hooks better becasue they make it in a Z bend version.

I still like the Tru-Turn barb kneck for some subtle presentations, but the
Z bend is the way to go if you want your hooks to last.

In my other post/question I was thinking of parts like hammer springs. For
that matter a simple process like carbon treating only part of the hook
might be an answer.

Just ideas.


--
Bob La Londe
Yuma, Az
http://www.YumaBassMan.com
Promote Your Fishing, Boating, or Guide Site for Free
Simply add it to our index page.
No reciprocal link required. (Requested, but not required)