Rod or Reel, Which is more Important?

[Craig]

Everyone typically has a strong opinion on this topic, so let's voice those
opinions.

I personally believe without a doubt the rod is more important. Why?
Because the rod is:

1. The extension of my arm - leverage, feel, power
2. the primary transmitter of vibration - which tells me what my lure is
doing. and where.
3. the device that plays the biggest role on how my lure will be presented
(depending on its power & action, the rod tip loads and unloads continuously
throughout the cast and retrieve, applying action to my lures).
4. Did I mention that it transmit the vibration & feel, which we all relate
to as sensitivity.

The reel is also a major player, but I will spend up to $350 on a rod and
only around $225 on a reel. Primarily because you can get an Excellent reel
for $150-$200, but to get to a Excellent rod, it takes a little more money.
I do not have super sensitive hands, so I need all the help I can get.
Where if you have sensitive hands, you may be able to get away with a $75
rod.

Remember too, that the most important factor of a rod is its guides, their
number (8+ depending on length), their placement, and what the guide is make
of (insert and frame - gold cermet inserts and titanium frames being best).

[Dark Knight]

I agree with Craig. The rod is far more important than reel. (To take that
one step further, even though the line is much less expensive than either
one of these components, I would suggest that from top to bottom, the most
important gear is:

Rod
Line
Reel

That said, if you pair a piece of crap reel with a exquisite rod, all you're
going to end up with is an exquisite piece of crap. (Same goes for bad rod
and great reel, cheap line and quality rod & reel, etc.)

DK


"Craig" > wrote in message
.com...
> Everyone typically has a strong opinion on this topic, so let's voice
those
> opinions.
>
> I personally believe without a doubt the rod is more important. Why?
> Because the rod is:
>
> 1. The extension of my arm - leverage, feel, power
> 2. the primary transmitter of vibration - which tells me what my lure is
> doing. and where.
> 3. the device that plays the biggest role on how my lure will be presented
> (depending on its power & action, the rod tip loads and unloads
continuously
> throughout the cast and retrieve, applying action to my lures).
> 4. Did I mention that it transmit the vibration & feel, which we all
relate
> to as sensitivity.
>
> The reel is also a major player, but I will spend up to $350 on a rod and
> only around $225 on a reel. Primarily because you can get an Excellent
reel
> for $150-$200, but to get to a Excellent rod, it takes a little more
money.
> I do not have super sensitive hands, so I need all the help I can get.
> Where if you have sensitive hands, you may be able to get away with a $75
> rod.
>
> Remember too, that the most important factor of a rod is its guides, their
> number (8+ depending on length), their placement, and what the guide is
make
> of (insert and frame - gold cermet inserts and titanium frames being
best).
>
>

[J Buck]

<if you pair a piece of crap reel with a exquisite rod, all you're going
to end up with is an exquisite piece of crap. (Same goes for bad rod and
great reel, cheap line and quality rod & reel, etc.>

Proving once again...'a chain is as strong as it's weakest link'. Taking
it to another level, it's why an expert will catch more fish with a 20
dollar Zebco combo than a rookie holding on to 300 bucks worth of gear.

[AJH]

IMO the reel is much more important then the rod, Use a $100 reel with a
40 dollar rod and it will work just fine, but try a cheap reel with a
expensive rod and you have a disaster..





I fish therefore I lie

[The RodMaker]

But let us remember that there is a big difference between "cheap" &
"inexpensive"!

--
Dave Norton
Millennium Rods
"AJH" > wrote in message
...
> IMO the reel is much more important then the rod, Use a $100 reel with a
> 40 dollar rod and it will work just fine, but try a cheap reel with a
> expensive rod and you have a disaster..
>
>
>
>
>
> I fish therefore I lie
>

[Bob La Londe]

"J Buck" > wrote in message
...
> <if you pair a piece of crap reel with a exquisite rod, all you're going
> to end up with is an exquisite piece of crap. (Same goes for bad rod and
> great reel, cheap line and quality rod & reel, etc.>
>
> Proving once again...'a chain is as strong as it's weakest link'. Taking
> it to another level, it's why an expert will catch more fish with a 20
> dollar Zebco combo than a rookie holding on to 300 bucks worth of gear.

I strongly object to the implications of your statement. You have
overpriced Zebco's best reel. The 33 Classic, and its an excellent reel.
I've never paid as much as $20 for one although it is certainyl worh it.
I'ld say that it isn't really intended for heavy use except we have cranked
in many a catfish in the 4-10 pound range with one. Seriously though it is
one of the most problem free reels I have ever used.

Seriously though. You are 100% correct. The best rod will be brought to
its knees by a crap reel.


--
Bob La Londe
Yuma, Az
http://www.YumaBassMan.com

[Bob La Londe]

"The RodMaker" > wrote in message
...
> But let us remember that there is a big difference between "cheap" &
> "inexpensive"!
>

I agree. No offense to Dave who makes custom rods, but if you can accept
that they won't take much abuse in the rod locker the Quantum rods that sell
from $20 to $50 are excellent to fish with. Much lighter for their rating
than other rods, and have excellent sensitivity.

I can't compare them to one of Dave's rods though since I have never fished
with one. I can compare them to the one St Croix I have at a retail of
about $175. The St Croix has similar characteristics, and is much more
durable to casual use and abuse. That is the difference in price in that
instance.


--
Bob La Londe
Yuma, Az
http://www.YumaBassMan.com

[Illinois Fisherman]

The rod and reel are equally important as a "matched set". The line you use
is actually the primary transmitter of vibration to the rod. The most
important item on any reel is the smoothness of drag while fighting a fish.
On baitcasters, I always palm the reel and have my thumb and index fingers
on the line while reeling the bait, my other three fingers are holding on
the bottom of the rod. Try it, you will see what I mean. You can use a round
or low profile reel it makes no difference. If you physically hold the line
lightly all the time, you will feel everything your bait or lure is doing.
If you just rely on the rod to give you the feel, you may miss a few takes
by the fish your after. My grandfather taught my this line holding technique
fifty years ago on the Little Bay de Noc with the old thumbuster reels of
the forties using Dacron line with steel and fiberglass rods. Sensitivity is
greatest the fingers of the hand, and not necessarily in the material the
rod is composed of, or the cost of the rod itself.

If you want, or need to pay for the highest end products for a confidence
boost it is up to you. You should get what you pay for when buying the high
end products or having a custom made rod. I just think it is how you use the
equipment you fish with, not what equipment you fish with, that makes the
difference between catching and fishing.

Just my humble opinion on this subject.

Illinois Fisherman


"Craig" > wrote in message
.com...
> Everyone typically has a strong opinion on this topic, so let's voice
those
> opinions.
>
> I personally believe without a doubt the rod is more important. Why?
> Because the rod is:
>
> 1. The extension of my arm - leverage, feel, power
> 2. the primary transmitter of vibration - which tells me what my lure is
> doing. and where.
> 3. the device that plays the biggest role on how my lure will be presented
> (depending on its power & action, the rod tip loads and unloads
continuously
> throughout the cast and retrieve, applying action to my lures).
> 4. Did I mention that it transmit the vibration & feel, which we all
relate
> to as sensitivity.
>
> The reel is also a major player, but I will spend up to $350 on a rod and
> only around $225 on a reel. Primarily because you can get an Excellent
reel
> for $150-$200, but to get to a Excellent rod, it takes a little more
money.
> I do not have super sensitive hands, so I need all the help I can get.
> Where if you have sensitive hands, you may be able to get away with a $75
> rod.
>
> Remember too, that the most important factor of a rod is its guides, their
> number (8+ depending on length), their placement, and what the guide is
make
> of (insert and frame - gold cermet inserts and titanium frames being
best).
>
>

[Crownliner]

while it is nice to have both a good reel and rod, there is little doubt
that you can do much more with a great rod and a fair reel. i would happily
fish a glx even if i were stuck with a low end quantum or curado reel. even
cheaper baitcasters like bass pro's low end stuff will still work. the
reel is not the feel. on the other hand i would not want to fish a calais
on a cheap ugly stick or wal mart shakesphere rod. the rod is where all the
feel and most of the control is.

just my opinion,

crownliner


"Bob La Londe" > wrote in message
...
> "J Buck" > wrote in message
> ...
> > <if you pair a piece of crap reel with a exquisite rod, all you're going
> > to end up with is an exquisite piece of crap. (Same goes for bad rod and
> > great reel, cheap line and quality rod & reel, etc.>
> >
> > Proving once again...'a chain is as strong as it's weakest link'. Taking
> > it to another level, it's why an expert will catch more fish with a 20
> > dollar Zebco combo than a rookie holding on to 300 bucks worth of gear.
>
> I strongly object to the implications of your statement. You have
> overpriced Zebco's best reel. The 33 Classic, and its an excellent reel.
> I've never paid as much as $20 for one although it is certainyl worh it.
> I'ld say that it isn't really intended for heavy use except we have
cranked
> in many a catfish in the 4-10 pound range with one. Seriously though it
is
> one of the most problem free reels I have ever used.
>
> Seriously though. You are 100% correct. The best rod will be brought to
> its knees by a crap reel.
>
>
> --
> Bob La Londe
> Yuma, Az
> http://www.YumaBassMan.com
>
>

[Craig]

I will agree with you in that your fishing line is a transmitter of
vibration. However, your rod is your primary tool/instrument for detecting
vibration because it acts as an amplifier and magnifies the vibration
signal.

Nylon monofilament is a poor transmitter as is fiberglass in a rod.
Copolymers and Fluorocarbon lines are better and superlines like Fireline
and Spiderwire are good transmitters of vibration. But even the best of the
superlines still need the amplification help of a rod so that the angler can
detect it. Touching the line above the reel may give you an added sense of
feel, but it is the amplified vibration of the rod (even a fiberglass one)
that helps you detect the lines signal.

It all starts with the guides. The harder, smoother, more dense the
material used to make a guide insert the more vibration it will transmit to
the guide frame. Again, the harder, more dense the guide frame the more
vibration it transmits to the rod blank. The more guides making contact
with the line, the better the signal.

The harder, more dense the material used in the construction of the rod
blank the more vibration reaches the hands and reel of the angler unchanged.

I have an article coming out in the December Issue of FLW Outdoors that will
further explain this and the differences in graphite.

--
Craig Baugher
"You are only as successful as you see yourself being!"

[AJH]

If the pos reel can't make the cast, what good is the expensive rod?





I fish therefore I lie

[RichZ]

Craig wrote:

> it acts as an amplifier and magnifies the vibration
>

From where does it get the energy to amplify the signal? You cannot amplify
energy or motion without consuming more energy from another source. Laws of
physics and all.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[Craig]

Think megaphone Rich, and you will have your answer.

--
Craig
You will only be as successful as you see yourself being!

[RichZ]

Craig wrote:
> Think megaphone Rich, and you will have your answer.
>
??

A megaphone directs and concentrates sound, it doesn't actually amplify it.
The increasing surface area of the cone moves a greater volume of air as
the vibration travels along the cone, but the total amount of energy is not
increased. Sound is energy. You cannot increase the amount of energy in a
sound wave (or a line vibration) without taking energy from some other
source. The megaphone uses energy that would have been expended sending the
sound waves in other directions to throw the sound farther in the direction
it is aimed. In the case of the line, if you were holding it directly
without a rod interfering, all of the energy in its vibration would be
deposited on your fingertips. You cannot direct it any better than that.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[AJH]

Craig, are you a rod builder?





I fish therefore I lie

[Craig]

Rich wrote: "A megaphone directs and concentrates sound, it doesn't actually
amplify it. The increasing surface area of the cone moves a greater volume
of air as the vibration travels along the cone, but the total amount of
energy is not increased. Sound is energy."

The basic principle still applies, through the redirection and concentration
of vibration through the guides and blank (and its basic shape). Now let's
face it, by the time your line travels through all the guides, most of its
energy has been absorbed and redirected by the rod and its compotents.

--
Craig

[Illinois Fisherman]

The Rod is flexible therefore absorbs energy not amplifies it. The stiffer
the rod tip the more energy it can pass on, but it does absorb some of it
anyway.

Physics 101


"Craig" > wrote in message
.com...
> I will agree with you in that your fishing line is a transmitter of
> vibration. However, your rod is your primary tool/instrument for
detecting
> vibration because it acts as an amplifier and magnifies the vibration
> signal.
>
> Nylon monofilament is a poor transmitter as is fiberglass in a rod.
> Copolymers and Fluorocarbon lines are better and superlines like Fireline
> and Spiderwire are good transmitters of vibration. But even the best of
the
> superlines still need the amplification help of a rod so that the angler
can
> detect it. Touching the line above the reel may give you an added sense
of
> feel, but it is the amplified vibration of the rod (even a fiberglass one)
> that helps you detect the lines signal.
>
> It all starts with the guides. The harder, smoother, more dense the
> material used to make a guide insert the more vibration it will transmit
to
> the guide frame. Again, the harder, more dense the guide frame the more
> vibration it transmits to the rod blank. The more guides making contact
> with the line, the better the signal.
>
> The harder, more dense the material used in the construction of the rod
> blank the more vibration reaches the hands and reel of the angler
unchanged.
>
> I have an article coming out in the December Issue of FLW Outdoors that
will
> further explain this and the differences in graphite.
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> "You are only as successful as you see yourself being!"
>
>

[Calif Bill]

"Illinois Fisherman" > wrote in message
y.com...
> The Rod is flexible therefore absorbs energy not amplifies it. The stiffer
> the rod tip the more energy it can pass on, but it does absorb some of it
> anyway.
>
> Physics 101
>
>
> "Craig" > wrote in message
> .com...
> > I will agree with you in that your fishing line is a transmitter of
> > vibration. However, your rod is your primary tool/instrument for
> detecting
> > vibration because it acts as an amplifier and magnifies the vibration
> > signal.
> >
> > Nylon monofilament is a poor transmitter as is fiberglass in a rod.
> > Copolymers and Fluorocarbon lines are better and superlines like
Fireline
> > and Spiderwire are good transmitters of vibration. But even the best of
> the
> > superlines still need the amplification help of a rod so that the angler
> can
> > detect it. Touching the line above the reel may give you an added sense
> of
> > feel, but it is the amplified vibration of the rod (even a fiberglass
one)
> > that helps you detect the lines signal.
> >
> > It all starts with the guides. The harder, smoother, more dense the
> > material used to make a guide insert the more vibration it will transmit
> to
> > the guide frame. Again, the harder, more dense the guide frame the more
> > vibration it transmits to the rod blank. The more guides making contact
> > with the line, the better the signal.
> >
> > The harder, more dense the material used in the construction of the rod
> > blank the more vibration reaches the hands and reel of the angler
> unchanged.
> >
> > I have an article coming out in the December Issue of FLW Outdoors that
> will
> > further explain this and the differences in graphite.
> >
> > --
> > Craig Baugher
> > "You are only as successful as you see yourself being!"
> >
> >
>
>

It absorbs some of the energy, but that energy has to go somewhere. Some as
heat, and some just reflects inside the rod. If the natural frequency of
the rod is close to the frequency of the energy transmitted through the
line, then the energy can actually build in the rod, causing greater
movement. Example was the bridge in Washington that got to whipping and
fell down as the frequency of the bridge was the same as the wind coming
down the river. Senior moment as to name of bridge. Actually, I think the
really good rods, just do not absorb as much of the energy as the poor rods.
A lot less dampening. Sort of like a shock absorber. The ideal rod is a
hand line. All the energy is sent to the fingers. And if you do not
believe this, look at a Mexican panguerp that fishes for a living with hand
lines. They will outfish a rod fisherman all the time. May be hard to cast
and retrieve a spinnerbait, but they do not require the sensitivity of a
worm.
Bill

[Illinois Fisherman]

"Calif Bill" > wrote in message
ink.net...

>It absorbs some of the energy, but that energy has to go somewhere.

To the Reel and line. Those are the only options left. If the line is tied
to the end of the rod, then all of the energy would be transmitted to the
rod tip. Remember the old cane pole method, that soft tip moving every time
you got a bite.

>Some as heat, and some just reflects inside the rod. If the natural
frequency of
>the rod is close to the frequency of the energy transmitted through the
>line, then the energy can actually build in the rod, causing greater
>movement. Example was the bridge in Washington that got to whipping and
>fell down as the frequency of the bridge was the same as the wind coming
>down the river. Senior moment as to name of bridge.

That bridge was put on a heavy constant strain created by the wind. The
harmaonics of the bridge bed swaying - each section in an opposing movement
to the other section, destrored it. I say the film on that once.

>Actually, I think the really good rods, just do not absorb as much of the
energy as the poor rods.
>A lot less dampening. Sort of like a shock absorber.

Graphite is a lot stiffer material than fiberglass, so it is supposed to
transmit more feeling. For hypthetical purposes lets just say that
fiberglass has a dampening factor of 50% from the tip to the handel, braided
line 2%, that leaves 48% for the reel to absorb. Of the 50% for the
fiberglass say half of that energy is felt in the handel on the rod. Now
look at graphite with a dampening factor of only 25%, the line is still at
2% the reel at 48% but now we have a 25% increase in the energy felt at the
handle. This is not the exact figures but an example of what I am trying to
say.

Take a willow branch and swing at the ground, then take a golf club and
swing and hit the root of a tree and your hands will sting like crazy. The
stiffer the material the better it transmits. It cannot amplify the
vibration but it conducts it better. For every action in nature there is an
opposite and equal reaction. Not an opposite and more amplified/concentrated
reaction.

In vertical jigging you use a medium or medium heavy graphite rod for better
feel for the jig. For casting surface plugs your better off with a composite
or fiberglass rod so you don't pull the plug away to fast, you need the
shock absorber.

> The ideal rod is a hand line. All the energy is sent to the fingers. And
if you do not
>believe this, look at a Mexican panguerp that fishes for a living with hand
>lines. They will outfish a rod fisherman all the time. May be hard to
cast
>and retrieve a spinnerbait, but they do not require the sensitivity of a
>worm.
>Bill

I could not agree with you more.

[RichZ]

Craig wrote:
> Now let's
> face it, by the time your line travels through all the guides, most of its
> energy has been absorbed and redirected by the rod and its compotents.
>
Actually, during the important parts of the retrieve (eg when my bait is
sinking or still) my line is always slack. In that situation, virtually
nothing is transferred to the rod, and I feel every hit with my fingers on
the line, rather than through the rod.

But even so. As I said in the beginning, if you had the line in your fingers
and no rod, at all, you would feel more than you feel through a rod. All
rods diminish the vibration to some extent. It takes energy to move the rod.
The lighter the rod, the less it takes. The stiffer the rod, the less energy
is lost in bending the rod and the more will reach the other end. So in the
best rods (eg, lightweight construction, high modulus) the signal loss in
negligible, but it is still a far cry from "amplifying" the signal.

Semantics aside, I strongly agree with your contention that a light,
sensitive rod does more to increase your fish catching potential than a
quality reel.


RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[John Kerr]

Craig, I believe it's the "whole" package, it must all work together for
you...from the tip of the hook to the butt of the pole. I don't mind
losing a big one when the fish out "played" me...but I can't stand to
lose one to equiptment or technique <g>.

[Calif Bill]

"Illinois Fisherman" > wrote in message
y.com...
>
> "Calif Bill" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
> >It absorbs some of the energy, but that energy has to go somewhere.
>
> To the Reel and line. Those are the only options left. If the line is tied
> to the end of the rod, then all of the energy would be transmitted to the
> rod tip. Remember the old cane pole method, that soft tip moving every
time
> you got a bite.
>
> >Some as heat, and some just reflects inside the rod. If the natural
> frequency of
> >the rod is close to the frequency of the energy transmitted through the
> >line, then the energy can actually build in the rod, causing greater
> >movement. Example was the bridge in Washington that got to whipping and
> >fell down as the frequency of the bridge was the same as the wind coming
> >down the river. Senior moment as to name of bridge.
>
> That bridge was put on a heavy constant strain created by the wind. The
> harmaonics of the bridge bed swaying - each section in an opposing
movement
> to the other section, destrored it. I say the film on that once.
>

a constant wind would just have pushed to the side. The harmonics are
because the the wind was hitting the bridge at close to it's natural
frequency. A good example of natural frequency and amplification is put a
weight on a rubber band and start gently bouncing the weight and if you
cycle it right, the bounce gets huge with just a little input.
Bill

[CR]

"Craig" > wrote in message >...
> Everyone typically has a strong opinion on this topic, so let's voice those
> opinions.
>
> I personally believe without a doubt the rod is more important. Why?
> Because the rod is:
>
> 1. The extension of my arm - leverage, feel, power
> 2. the primary transmitter of vibration - which tells me what my lure is
> doing. and where.
> 3. the device that plays the biggest role on how my lure will be presented
> (depending on its power & action, the rod tip loads and unloads continuously
> throughout the cast and retrieve, applying action to my lures).
> 4. Did I mention that it transmit the vibration & feel, which we all relate
> to as sensitivity.

If you only care about perfomance I agree with you. If you want
durability then you better spend the money on the reel.