More drop shot fun

[RichZ]

My intention for yesterday was to go to the Hudson River. But Friday night,
it occurred to me that I had not yet renewed my New York license. For
reasons that make no sense whatsoever, NY license year runs from Oct-Sept.
So, not being Aaron Martens, I changed plans at the last minute and went
back up to Congamond. I took only two drop shot rods with me. One with 4 lb
test and one with 6. I was down to a lonely pair of my preferred DS nose
hook in my little DS box, so I went to the big box and found a whole bunch
of RUSTY DS hooks. Sorted through an tossed most, but salvaged a few. Big
mistake, that would turn out to be.

The lake has a 6mph speed limit until 10AM. Heavy fog is layed in on it
when I arrive at 7:15. I putt from the south ramp to my #1 spot -- the end
of a large bar extending off the shoreline about half way between the north
ramp and the south ramp. As I round the corner on the lake, I hear the
drone of a herd of bass boats struggling to go as fast as possible without
getting on plane. This is a typical Congamond bass tournament take off.
DAMN! I didn't really want to play 'musical fishing spots' all day. 'If I
get bit once,' I tell Frank, 'I'm going to hang on the end of that point
all day.'

And that's what I did. I watched a parade of boats fish the shoreline all
day. When they hit the shallow bar, most would pull out to 8 to 10 feet of
water as they worked across it. If they happened to notice me catching a
fish, they would work out deeper. But few ever got to the drop off at the
outer edge of the bar, and fewer still got OUTSIDE the drop-off. I did see
competitors take 4 fish off the bar. But only 2 of them invested any time
in it after taking a fish, and when no bite was forthcoming in 15 or 20
minutes, they were on the pull of the bank would drag them away from the
fish, and back to familiar targets. Meanwhile, except for 2 that came on
top of the bar near the drop-off, everything in my boat came from 26 to 29
feet of water in the crease at the base of the drop-off.

Caught fish drop shotting a variety of small baits, from 7:30 until about
10:30 AM. I had 10 at that point. A couple in the low-3 pound range (IE,
3-2), a couple little 14 inchers, and the rest 'typical congamond fish' in
the 2 to 2-1/2 class.

Frank and I have been having a running disagreement about light line for
drop shotting. He refuses to believe there can be any advantage to going
lighter than 8 lb test. I've been doing better with 4 than with 6 even. So
for the sake of comparison, he is fishing 8, while I alternate every half
hour between 4 and 6. So far, Frank has hooked and lost a big fish on the
8. That's it. One bite. I've got 10 fish in the boat, 8 of them on the 4 lb
test.

I should note that other than a few that pounded the lure pretty good, the
vast majority of those I caught (and those I missed or dropped as well)
were what I would call "maximum difficulty" drop shot fish. The tiniest tic
in the line -- so light that I doubt I'd feel it through the rod by normal
means, but that's pretty easy to detect through a finger on the slack line,
or by balance fishing on a taut line -- then going to balance fishing to
'feel' the fish munching on the bait until it loaded up a bit. These are
the days when if you pull it while the fish is messing with it, the fish is
gone. You've got to almost feed it to them once you've got one playing with
it. Frank doesn't have the touch for that kind of fishing, so his lack of
fish yesterday might be as much a matter of sensitivity as of his thick
line.

Anyway, about 11 I broke one off. I don't even think it was that big a
fish. The line just broke. So I set the 4 lb rod down (remember, I have no
pristine hooks to tie to it, and I'm loath to use one with rust damage if I
don't have too.) I fish the 6 for the better part of an hour before getting
another bite. And I bust this one off, too. And this one WAS a pretty big
fish. Not a giant, but I got a pretty good look at it when I was getting in
position to lip it and it decided to make one more dive, and I'd guess it
was in the 4-1/2 range.

Now I've got no choice to but select the best of those rust damaged hooks.
I re-rig both rods.

Catch a couple fish on the 4 lb rod in the next hour. Nothing special. Then
the line breaks at the knot, probably due to rust in the hook eye. I put
that rod down and fished the 6 lb test for the test of the day. Either the
fish shut down in the afternoon or the 6 was a real disadavantage, because
bites got a lot fewer and farther between. Then hook another real good one,
and THE HOOK breaks. I tied on another one, but we called it quits shortly
thereafter.

For what it's worth, Frank's 8 lb test never got him another fish. Or he
just wasn't detecting and 'feeding it to' the light biters.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[Bob Rickard]

Rich, do you feel a 2/10 Fireline (or a different "superline") do as good a
job as the 4# mono, considering the sensitivity of the superlines?

--
Bob Rickard
www.secretweaponlures.com
--------------------------<=x O')))><


"RichZ" > wrote in message
...
> My intention for yesterday was to go to the Hudson River. But Friday
night,
> it occurred to me that I had not yet renewed my New York license. For
> reasons that make no sense whatsoever, NY license year runs from Oct-Sept.
> So, not being Aaron Martens, I changed plans at the last minute and went
> back up to Congamond. I took only two drop shot rods with me. One with 4
lb
> test and one with 6. I was down to a lonely pair of my preferred DS nose
> hook in my little DS box, so I went to the big box and found a whole bunch
> of RUSTY DS hooks. Sorted through an tossed most, but salvaged a few. Big
> mistake, that would turn out to be.
>
> The lake has a 6mph speed limit until 10AM. Heavy fog is layed in on it
> when I arrive at 7:15. I putt from the south ramp to my #1 spot -- the end
> of a large bar extending off the shoreline about half way between the
north
> ramp and the south ramp. As I round the corner on the lake, I hear the
> drone of a herd of bass boats struggling to go as fast as possible without
> getting on plane. This is a typical Congamond bass tournament take off.
> DAMN! I didn't really want to play 'musical fishing spots' all day. 'If I
> get bit once,' I tell Frank, 'I'm going to hang on the end of that point
> all day.'
>
> And that's what I did. I watched a parade of boats fish the shoreline all
> day. When they hit the shallow bar, most would pull out to 8 to 10 feet of
> water as they worked across it. If they happened to notice me catching a
> fish, they would work out deeper. But few ever got to the drop off at the
> outer edge of the bar, and fewer still got OUTSIDE the drop-off. I did see
> competitors take 4 fish off the bar. But only 2 of them invested any time
> in it after taking a fish, and when no bite was forthcoming in 15 or 20
> minutes, they were on the pull of the bank would drag them away from the
> fish, and back to familiar targets. Meanwhile, except for 2 that came on
> top of the bar near the drop-off, everything in my boat came from 26 to 29
> feet of water in the crease at the base of the drop-off.
>
> Caught fish drop shotting a variety of small baits, from 7:30 until about
> 10:30 AM. I had 10 at that point. A couple in the low-3 pound range (IE,
> 3-2), a couple little 14 inchers, and the rest 'typical congamond fish'
in
> the 2 to 2-1/2 class.
>
> Frank and I have been having a running disagreement about light line for
> drop shotting. He refuses to believe there can be any advantage to going
> lighter than 8 lb test. I've been doing better with 4 than with 6 even. So
> for the sake of comparison, he is fishing 8, while I alternate every half
> hour between 4 and 6. So far, Frank has hooked and lost a big fish on the
> 8. That's it. One bite. I've got 10 fish in the boat, 8 of them on the 4
lb
> test.
>
> I should note that other than a few that pounded the lure pretty good, the
> vast majority of those I caught (and those I missed or dropped as well)
> were what I would call "maximum difficulty" drop shot fish. The tiniest
tic
> in the line -- so light that I doubt I'd feel it through the rod by normal
> means, but that's pretty easy to detect through a finger on the slack
line,
> or by balance fishing on a taut line -- then going to balance fishing to
> 'feel' the fish munching on the bait until it loaded up a bit. These are
> the days when if you pull it while the fish is messing with it, the fish
is
> gone. You've got to almost feed it to them once you've got one playing
with
> it. Frank doesn't have the touch for that kind of fishing, so his lack of
> fish yesterday might be as much a matter of sensitivity as of his thick
> line.
>
> Anyway, about 11 I broke one off. I don't even think it was that big a
> fish. The line just broke. So I set the 4 lb rod down (remember, I have no
> pristine hooks to tie to it, and I'm loath to use one with rust damage if
I
> don't have too.) I fish the 6 for the better part of an hour before
getting
> another bite. And I bust this one off, too. And this one WAS a pretty big
> fish. Not a giant, but I got a pretty good look at it when I was getting
in
> position to lip it and it decided to make one more dive, and I'd guess it
> was in the 4-1/2 range.
>
> Now I've got no choice to but select the best of those rust damaged hooks.
> I re-rig both rods.
>
> Catch a couple fish on the 4 lb rod in the next hour. Nothing special.
Then
> the line breaks at the knot, probably due to rust in the hook eye. I put
> that rod down and fished the 6 lb test for the test of the day. Either the
> fish shut down in the afternoon or the 6 was a real disadavantage, because
> bites got a lot fewer and farther between. Then hook another real good
one,
> and THE HOOK breaks. I tied on another one, but we called it quits shortly
> thereafter.
>
> For what it's worth, Frank's 8 lb test never got him another fish. Or he
> just wasn't detecting and 'feeding it to' the light biters.
>
> RichZ©
> www.richz.com/fishing
>

[RichZ]

Bob wrote:
> Rich, do you feel a 2/10 Fireline (or a different "superline") do as good a
> job as the 4# mono, considering the sensitivity of the superlines?
>
In a word, no. they just seem totally inappropriate for drop shotting.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers]

"RichZ" > wrote in message ...
> Bob wrote:
> > Rich, do you feel a 2/10 Fireline (or a different "superline") do as good a
> > job as the 4# mono, considering the sensitivity of the superlines?
> >
> In a word, no. they just seem totally inappropriate for drop shotting.

Really? I was guiding some guys for smallmouth/walleyes recently. The fish were just up off the
bottom and a standard jig/minnow wasn't cutting it. I had one rod rigged with a dropshot rig on 6
lb. mono and had one of the guys try that. He started catching fish on a fairly consistent basis,
so I re-rigged the other guys' rods the same way.

The other rods, spooled with 10/2 PowerPro, seemed to put more fish in the boat. The other guys
were saying that they could feel bites, the guy with mono couldn't feel the hits as well until I put
a different spool on the reel, this time with PowerPro. Same rod, same rig, the only difference was
the line. Was it the angler? Was it a confidence thing? I don't know, all I do know is that
dropshotting is another tool in the arsenal and PowerPro seemed to work just fine.
--
Steve
OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

[RichZ]

Steve wrote:
> Really?
>

Yes, REALLY.

The biggest reason is personal experience. Not specifically with powerpro,
but with super line in general. Drop shotting soft plastics has been part
of my arsenal for 15 years. Way longer than it was called drop shotting.

Anyway, when superlines first came out, I thought they would be the cat's
ass for drop shotting. But every time I tried to adapt them to the
technique, my catch rate fell dramatically. Tried Iron Thread, Spiderwire,
Fireline, Whiplash, and more recently, spiderwire stealth. Always seems to
come up the same. I can outfish the snot out of it with thin mono.

I can't say that any of these factors are the reason... I suspect that
several of them my be partial reasons.

1> I find no feel advantage to superliens when fishing a slack line. Tight
line, yes, but not slack line. If anything the increased limpness and the
higher water resistance of the textured surface make slack line sensitivity
somewhat less with super lines. And the portion of working the bait when
the line is slack is paramount to my drop shot success. I feel 90% of the
hits through finger contact with the line while it is slack. That's when
the bait is really fishing!

2> too direct a connection between the sinker and the hook. Drop shotting
really shines when the fish are really timid and non-committal about
feeding. It's easy to make them drop the bait by moving it too sharply
while they're mouthing it. (yes, sometimes that makes them attack it with
more vengeance, but when that's the case, odds are you could be catching
them without the max-finesse afforded by drop shotting, anyway) I think
that the fish moving off with the bait on a slack line and suddenly coming
upon a tight line to the weight -- when there's only a foot or so of
no-stretch superline between the hook and the weight -- can present
exactly the kind of a sharp signal that makes the fish drop the bait.

3> line visibility. It may not matter a hoot. But if there's ever a time
when it does, the times you really need drop shotting's finesse are the
times when it will matter most. I'd rather have something transparent in
that situation.

4> less forgiving in playing the fish. Typically, I'm fishing a drop shot
with a #2 hook. there are few techniques in when so many of the fish boated
are hooked by little more than the skin of their teeth as there are in drop
shotting. I think the cushion of the mono is a big help in actually getting
them in the boat.

5> Self cinching drop shot weights do not cinch well to any superline. They
tend to slide off way too easily. To prevent it, you've got to tie an
overhand knot in the end of the line to stop the weight from sliding off.
Then it WON'T slide off, and you lose the advantage of the self cinching
drop shot weight.

IMHO, superlines are wonderful for the right applications. This just ain't
one of them.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers]

"RichZ" > wrote in message ...
> Steve wrote:
> > Really?

Well see? I learned something today. What you write makes a lot of sense. I'll have to try both
and see if I can notice the difference. I'd really like to spend some time in the boat with you
Rich, it would be fun and informative.
--
Steve
OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

[Justin Hires]

RichZ > wrote in message >...
> Steve wrote:
> > Really?
> >
>
> Yes, REALLY.
>
> The biggest reason is personal experience. Not specifically with powerpro,
> but with super line in general. Drop shotting soft plastics has been part
> of my arsenal for 15 years. Way longer than it was called drop shotting.
>
> Anyway, when superlines first came out, I thought they would be the cat's
> ass for drop shotting. But every time I tried to adapt them to the
> technique, my catch rate fell dramatically. Tried Iron Thread, Spiderwire,
> Fireline, Whiplash, and more recently, spiderwire stealth. Always seems to
> come up the same. I can outfish the snot out of it with thin mono.
>
> I can't say that any of these factors are the reason... I suspect that
> several of them my be partial reasons.
>
> 1> I find no feel advantage to superliens when fishing a slack line. Tight
> line, yes, but not slack line. If anything the increased limpness and the
> higher water resistance of the textured surface make slack line sensitivity
> somewhat less with super lines. And the portion of working the bait when
> the line is slack is paramount to my drop shot success. I feel 90% of the
> hits through finger contact with the line while it is slack. That's when
> the bait is really fishing!
>
> 2> too direct a connection between the sinker and the hook. Drop shotting
> really shines when the fish are really timid and non-committal about
> feeding. It's easy to make them drop the bait by moving it too sharply
> while they're mouthing it. (yes, sometimes that makes them attack it with
> more vengeance, but when that's the case, odds are you could be catching
> them without the max-finesse afforded by drop shotting, anyway) I think
> that the fish moving off with the bait on a slack line and suddenly coming
> upon a tight line to the weight -- when there's only a foot or so of
> no-stretch superline between the hook and the weight -- can present
> exactly the kind of a sharp signal that makes the fish drop the bait.
>
> 3> line visibility. It may not matter a hoot. But if there's ever a time
> when it does, the times you really need drop shotting's finesse are the
> times when it will matter most. I'd rather have something transparent in
> that situation.
>
> 4> less forgiving in playing the fish. Typically, I'm fishing a drop shot
> with a #2 hook. there are few techniques in when so many of the fish boated
> are hooked by little more than the skin of their teeth as there are in drop
> shotting. I think the cushion of the mono is a big help in actually getting
> them in the boat.
>
> 5> Self cinching drop shot weights do not cinch well to any superline. They
> tend to slide off way too easily. To prevent it, you've got to tie an
> overhand knot in the end of the line to stop the weight from sliding off.
> Then it WON'T slide off, and you lose the advantage of the self cinching
> drop shot weight.
>
> IMHO, superlines are wonderful for the right applications. This just ain't
> one of them.
>
> RichZ©
> www.richz.com/fishing

Rich wrote: Drop shotting soft plastics has been part
> of my arsenal for 15 years. Way longer than it was called drop shotting.

REALLY?

Hey, Rich: What is you're name for Drop shotting?

-JUSTIN

[RichZ]

Justin wrote:
> What is you're name for Drop shotting?
>
When I wrote it up in the January 1980 Fishing Fact, it was an "inverted
split shot rig".

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[jack schmitt KQ4C]

RichZ wrote:
>
> Justin wrote:
> > What is you're name for Drop shotting?
> >
> When I wrote it up in the January 1980 Fishing Fact, it was an "inverted
> split shot rig".
>
> RichZ©
> www.richz.com/fishing

It was called tight lining when used for crappie on Ky. Lake.

[RichZ]

Jack wrote:
> It was called tight lining when used for crappie
>

Except that's with heavy tackle and livebait.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[Shawn]

RichZ wrote ...

> Meanwhile, except for 2 that came on
> top of the bar near the drop-off, everything in my boat came from 26 to 29
> feet of water in the crease at the base of the drop-off.

Question; how do you determine the length of leader in a situation like
this? Sounds like you started off searching with the DS until you found the
congregation down deep. Did you vary the leader until you hit them? Did you
mark them on the graph and adjust? This blind squirrel can't find a nut.

-- Shawn

[jack schmitt KQ4C]

RichZ wrote:
>
> Jack wrote:
> > It was called tight lining when used for crappie
> >
>
> Except that's with heavy tackle and livebait.
>
> RichZ©
> www.richz.com/fishing

Nope, we used light line and a hook with a plastic tail similar to a
Charlie Brewer Crappie tail. The sinker was attached to the bottom of
the line as in drop shotting.

[RichZ]

Unless I'm fishing suspended fish that I've marked with the electronics, I
start with about a 12" leader. I'd say that 80% of my drop shot fish are
caught with a leader between 10 and 18" long. I try to keep it simple.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[RichZ]

Jack wrote:
> Nope, we used light line and a hook with a plastic tail similar to a
> Charlie Brewer Crappie tail. The sinker was attached to the bottom of
> the line as in drop shotting.
>

Interesting. How long ago was this? When I spent a November week there back
in the 80 doing crappie fishing research for In-Fish, all the local experts
were into using 20 pound test line with a special, long weight on the end,
and above that a pair of aberdeen hooks tied about 2 feet apart and baited
with minners. And they definitely called it a tight-line rig. The weight
that the real sharpies were using was a welding rod with one end hammered
flat and drilled to attach to the snap swivel on the end of the line.
They'd drop it into the nasty tangles along the deep channel ledges, and if
a hook got hung, the 20 pound line would just straighten it out with no
problem.


RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[J Buck]

<baited with minners>

Minnows?

[jack schmitt KQ4C]

RichZ wrote:
>
> Jack wrote:
> > Nope, we used light line and a hook with a plastic tail similar to a
> > Charlie Brewer Crappie tail. The sinker was attached to the bottom of
> > the line as in drop shotting.
> >
>
> Interesting. How long ago was this? When I spent a November week there back
> in the 80 doing crappie fishing research for In-Fish, all the local experts
> were into using 20 pound test line with a special, long weight on the end,
> and above that a pair of aberdeen hooks tied about 2 feet apart and baited
> with minners. And they definitely called it a tight-line rig. The weight
> that the real sharpies were using was a welding rod with one end hammered
> flat and drilled to attach to the snap swivel on the end of the line.
> They'd drop it into the nasty tangles along the deep channel ledges, and if
> a hook got hung, the 20 pound line would just straighten it out with no
> problem.
>
> RichZ©
> www.richz.com/fishing

I wouldn't call my group experts, but we did catch fish

I owned a camp at Southern Aire Resort from 1965 to 1982 which was owned
by Barefoot mallory and later David Lashlee. We created stake beds
during the draw down of the lake in the fall and early winter by driving
oak stakes into the river and creek bottoms. We were able to fish with
light lines due to the fact that a stake bed is not near as hangy (sp?)
as a brush pile. All the structure was perpendicular to the bottom with
no horizontal arms. It seems to me that the water in KY Lake was much
clearer then than now and we thought we did better with the light lines,
although we did lose some rigs from time to time. When Lowrance came out
with their Green Box Flasher and later the X-5 LCR we were able to find
additional stake beds in other areas, notably, the Big Sandy area. You
are correct that the guides used heavy line and light wire hooks with
mostly live bait for their clients.

The man who taught me this technique is no longer with us, but he was a
devotee of light lines. He was a fine small mouth fisherman who used
light lines in the creeks that flowed into Ky. Lake primarily from the
east side: White Oak, Cane, Leatherwood, and Richland. He also fished
the mouth of Duck River and Blue creek further south.

Hope this helps from a guy who has fished Ky. Lake since it was first
impounded.

[Marty]

RichZ > wrote in message ...
> My intention for yesterday was to go to the Hudson River. But Friday
night,
> it occurred to me that I had not yet renewed my New York license. For
> reasons that make no sense whatsoever, NY license year runs from Oct-Sept.
When I first started fishing in 1969, the license year was as it is now,
from Oct. 1-Sep. 30. However, my original mentor, who is now 81, says that
at one time the license year was the calendar year. His recollection is that
the change was made to alleviate the heavy holiday workload in town and
county offices.

[RichZ]

Jack wrote:
> Hope this helps
>
I don't know about 'helps', but it sure does entertain and inform. I love
the history of this sport especially as it perains to the development of
local techniques for local conditions, then the adaptation of those
techniques to other conditions elsewhere. Thanks for the info.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[RichZ]

Marty wrote:
> His recollection is that
> the change was made to alleviate the heavy holiday workload in town and
> county offices.
>

The DEC once told me it was set that way ever since they came up with combo
licenses, becayse hunting licenses had to start with the new hunting
season. Of course these days, lots of northern states have hunting seasons
(eg, early resident goose, bow/deer) that begin before 10/1 anyway. But in
those days, it made sense for hunting licenses to be issued prior to
hunting season. I guess. The reasoning doesn't really have to make sense to
anone other than politicians and bureaucrats, I guess.


RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing