G Loomis??

[kenneth blevins]

I was in a local tackle store the other day looking for another rod. The
owner asks if he can help and I ask him if he is going to discount any of
his left over rods . [ which he had about 35 or so of]He tells me that
if he discounts any rods that he stands a chance of loosing his supplier
..Now I don't blame him for keeping "Loomis" happy but is this a normal
practice of people selling these rods.I have bought two new Loomis rods this
year [retail] and have to admit that I find that I'm using them more every
time I fish .So with hunting sales booming and fishing sales slowing down
thought now is the time to buy. -OK right
Any comments
Ken Blevins

[AJH]

I see more guys on the internet complaining about Loomis rods than any
other..ie broken rods, loose handles, loose guides, warranty
problems..then I see guys who love them...





I fish therefore I lie

[Bob]

{yank, yank}
That feeling on a lower extremity is your leg being pulled by the dealer.

Your dealer, most likely, purchases his equipment through a wholesaler and
not direct from Loomis (although anything is possible :-). Now, no matter
what his source is for rods, if one supplier cuts him off for any reason,
there will be 15 more suppliers willing to lobby him for his business. At
the inner ends of the industry there is just as much competition, suppliers
for retailers, as there is in the competition of retailers for customers.
There is no practical way for any supplier to force a dealer to sell any
product for a supplier dictated price, as noted, the dealer can just go
elsewhere for his merchandise. There has to be allowances for the dealer to
price for HIS market area competitively and also to deal with overstock,
especially BEFORE that overstock becomes OLD stock that is even harder to
move. To never mark an item down is to risk having it carried on the dealers
inventory for years and years, until he becomes able to sell it as a never
used antique.

I can just picture it, opening the paper and seeing an ad for the local
dealer and he is having a sale (at antique prices) of 1973 Pflueger reels
and Fenwick rods!

Most likely (I hope) is that he just feels unwilling to discount Loomis rods
because he knows that they will sell at full price within a reasonable
length of time with little to no carry over on inventory. And he just wanted
to tell you a "story" that sounds believable and that removes from your mind
that it is his fault that he does not discount them.

Shoot straight and cast far
Bob

"kenneth blevins" > wrote in message
. ..
> I was in a local tackle store the other day looking for another rod. The
> owner asks if he can help and I ask him if he is going to discount any of
> his left over rods . [ which he had about 35 or so of]He tells me
that
> if he discounts any rods that he stands a chance of loosing his supplier
> .Now I don't blame him for keeping "Loomis" happy but is this a normal
> practice of people selling these rods.I have bought two new Loomis rods
this
> year [retail] and have to admit that I find that I'm using them more every
> time I fish .So with hunting sales booming and fishing sales slowing
down
> thought now is the time to buy. -OK right
> Any comments
> Ken Blevins
>
>

[Eric Ryder]

"Bob" > wrote in message
news:hERob.76821$HS4.650404@attbi_s01...
> {yank, yank}
> That feeling on a lower extremity is your leg being pulled by the dealer.
>
> Your dealer, most likely, purchases his equipment through a wholesaler and
> not direct from Loomis (although anything is possible :-). Now, no matter
> what his source is for rods, if one supplier cuts him off for any reason,
> there will be 15 more suppliers willing to lobby him for his business. At
> the inner ends of the industry there is just as much competition,
suppliers
> for retailers, as there is in the competition of retailers for customers.
> There is no practical way for any supplier to force a dealer to sell any
> product for a supplier dictated price, as noted, the dealer can just go
> elsewhere for his merchandise.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Just had to poke a hole here: What about Yamamoto baits?


>There has to be allowances for the dealer to
> price for HIS market area competitively and also to deal with overstock,
> especially BEFORE that overstock becomes OLD stock that is even harder to
> move. To never mark an item down is to risk having it carried on the
dealers
> inventory for years and years, until he becomes able to sell it as a never
> used antique.
>
> I can just picture it, opening the paper and seeing an ad for the local
> dealer and he is having a sale (at antique prices) of 1973 Pflueger reels
> and Fenwick rods!
>
> Most likely (I hope) is that he just feels unwilling to discount Loomis
rods
> because he knows that they will sell at full price within a reasonable
> length of time with little to no carry over on inventory. And he just
wanted
> to tell you a "story" that sounds believable and that removes from your
mind
> that it is his fault that he does not discount them.
>
> Shoot straight and cast far
> Bob
>
> "kenneth blevins" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > I was in a local tackle store the other day looking for another rod.
The
> > owner asks if he can help and I ask him if he is going to discount any
of
> > his left over rods . [ which he had about 35 or so of]He tells me
> that
> > if he discounts any rods that he stands a chance of loosing his supplier
> > .Now I don't blame him for keeping "Loomis" happy but is this a normal
> > practice of people selling these rods.I have bought two new Loomis rods
> this
> > year [retail] and have to admit that I find that I'm using them more
every
> > time I fish .So with hunting sales booming and fishing sales slowing
> down
> > thought now is the time to buy. -OK right
> > Any comments
> > Ken Blevins
> >
> >
>
>

[Brad Coovert]

>Your dealer, most likely, purchases his equipment through a wholesaler and
>not direct from Loomis
>Now, no matter
>what his source is for rods, if one supplier cuts him off for any reason,
>there will be 15 more suppliers willing to lobby him for his business.

I am pretty sure, but not positive, that Loomis does not use large scale
wholesalers. From what I have been told, they either deal direct with dealers
or use wholesalers that cover a specific territory.

As for price, Loomis rods are priced pretty much the same all over the country.
I do not recall ever seeing a Loomis sale at a store in all the years I have
shopped at them, Besides, the dealer makes plenty of money and Loomis rods
seldom sit on the shelf long at any of the many, many Loomis dealers around me,
including the five Galyans stores we have.

On a side note, Dicks just came to town with a new store. Should be
interesting to see how they do against Galyan's.


Brad Coovert, 2003 Tournament Director, Greenfield Bassmasters
Please visit our sponsors:
http://www.geocities.com/greenfieldbass/WelcomeToOurSponsorPage.htm

[Brad Coovert]

>Just had to poke a hole here: What about Yamamoto baits?

Only one place a dealer gets Yammies, GYCB. Either from the factory or one of
their two GYCB owned stores. Lose your supplier and you're done selling 'em
pretty much.

They do try to set the retail pricing from what I have been told by a few
dealers, but there are some that still discount them. I know a few guys down
south who sell the Senkos for $4.99 a pack regular price instead of $5.99. I
do not think that GYCB gives them much grief though, they might not even know.
Either way, the baits move off the shelves and the dealer makes money.

GYCB likes to deal with smaller dealers for the most part, such as Willits in
Greenfield, IN. Yes, they sell to Cabelas, Dicks and Galyans, but they carry a
mostly limited stock of styles, sizes and colors. Maybe they want all dealers
to have an equal footing and not worry about competition from internet dealers.
Maybe they want everyone to be the same price as the GYCB website. Who knows.

I do not know any dealers with a decent supply of bass fishing customers who
suffer from having overstock of GYCB baits due to price. Even though a lot of
guys complain, there has always been plenty of buyers over the years for Gary's
baits. Besides, all that salt is a preservative, the baits will last for
years. ;-)

Another comment on Loomis. Dealers will sell rods at a discount, they just do
not advertise it. Talk about it with them and you might get a discount. Just
don't go and tell everyone.

Brad Coovert, 2003 Tournament Director, Greenfield Bassmasters
Please visit our sponsors:
http://www.geocities.com/greenfieldbass/WelcomeToOurSponsorPage.htm

[Richard Liebert]

My son broke one of my 3 yr. old and quite used Loomis rods in a car door.
Loomis sent me a brand new identical rod for $50 including shipping no
questions asked, no receipts required, nothing, just a phone call. All I had
to do was return the broken rod in the shipping tube postage paid. I think
that is a fair policy.


"AJH" > wrote in message
...
> I see more guys on the internet complaining about Loomis rods than any
> other..ie broken rods, loose handles, loose guides, warranty
> problems..then I see guys who love them...
>
>
>
>
>
> I fish therefore I lie
>

[Bob]

The point being that no supplier, whether wholesaler or manufacturer, has
any "real" power to keep a retailer from discounting any merchandise at the
end of the season, or at any other time that the dealer deems to be a good
time to reduce inventory. While any manufacturer may like to see their
product sell at $x.xx, they are more interested in capturing a % of the
market in a particular area in unit sales, not $ sales.

So that if 400 dealers carry Yamamoto in, lets say, Wisconsin. And 8 of
those dealers (2% of the total) sell 8.5% of all the product within the
state, as long as Yamamoto is seeing total sales, equal or exceeding
forecast, for the state, they will not give two hoots whether those 10
dealers are selling them at 20% less than everyone else, or at the same
price as everyone else. Remember that the manufacturer has already received
their money for the product, usually before you ever see it on the dealers
shelves. Retailers, wholesalers, and manufacturer's all learned the lesson,
back in the 1970's, that "forcing" a pricing policy on retailers, with a "no
tolerance" attitude will only force retailers to either go out of business,
or not carry that product line no matter how badly they may want it. For the
retailer it really is a matter of the bottom line ruling over everything
else.

There is very little "juice", in the way of profit margin, for fishing
tackle. And those retailers that prosper do it more on volume than
individual profit per item. Remember this the next time you are at (pick
your medicine) Bass Pro, Cabela's, Galyan's, or Gander Mountain (or whoever
you have locally). These stores are not the cheapest around for pricing, yet
even on a Monday morning at 10:00 AM they can be crowded. It really comes
down to volume to get anywhere.

Shoot straight and cast far
Bob

"Eric Ryder" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> news:hERob.76821$HS4.650404@attbi_s01...
> > {yank, yank}
> > That feeling on a lower extremity is your leg being pulled by the
dealer.
> >
> > Your dealer, most likely, purchases his equipment through a wholesaler
and
> > not direct from Loomis (although anything is possible :-). Now, no
matter
> > what his source is for rods, if one supplier cuts him off for any
reason,
> > there will be 15 more suppliers willing to lobby him for his business.
At
> > the inner ends of the industry there is just as much competition,
> suppliers
> > for retailers, as there is in the competition of retailers for
customers.
> > There is no practical way for any supplier to force a dealer to sell any
> > product for a supplier dictated price, as noted, the dealer can just go
> > elsewhere for his merchandise.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Just had to poke a hole here: What about Yamamoto baits?
>
>

[Bob]

"Brad Coovert" > wrote in message
...
> >Your dealer, most likely, purchases his equipment through a wholesaler
and
> >not direct from Loomis
> >Now, no matter
> >what his source is for rods, if one supplier cuts him off for any reason,
> >there will be 15 more suppliers willing to lobby him for his business.
>
> I am pretty sure, but not positive, that Loomis does not use large scale
> wholesalers. From what I have been told, they either deal direct with
dealers
> or use wholesalers that cover a specific territory.

But even then, the economics of the industry do not, and cannot, limit the
area that a wholesaler covers. Back in the early 1970's the store that I
worked at used 5 different wholesaler's to supply us, yet we were only "in
the territory" of two of them, and as a consequence we only saw a salesman
from these two suppliers. All the rest were more than happy to send us a
master catalogue once a year and then take either phone or written orders
from us all year long. This is still the setup that you can encounter
everwhere within the country.
>
> As for price, Loomis rods are priced pretty much the same all over the
country.
> I do not recall ever seeing a Loomis sale at a store in all the years I
have
> shopped at them, Besides, the dealer makes plenty of money and Loomis
rods
> seldom sit on the shelf long at any of the many, many Loomis dealers
around me,
> including the five Galyans stores we have.

When this is the case, in a particular market, then it works very well for
the retailer. What is hot will seldom, if ever, be marked down for any
reason. There will always be products that a dealer will carry over in
inventory for this very reason.

Shoot straight and cast far
Bob

[AJH]

I did the same thing with a CastAway rod,cost me $15.00 for shipping..





I fish therefore I lie

[Brad Coovert]

>But even then, the economics of the industry do not, and cannot, limit the
>area that a wholesaler covers. Back in the early 1970's the store that I
>worked at used 5 different wholesaler's to supply us, yet we were only "in
>the territory" of two of them, and as a consequence we only saw a salesman
>from these two suppliers. All the rest were more than happy to send us a
>master catalogue once a year and then take either phone or written orders
>from us all year long. This is still the setup that you can encounter
>everwhere within the country.

Must be the way it is in fishing tackle. In my business, there are limits on
many, many products as to where and from whom you can buy them.

Either way, I have heard the same story on Loomis from dealers all over....they
cannot discount the rods. Many still do, but not publicly, as I said. Why,
who knows. There has to be a reason.


Brad Coovert, 2003 Tournament Director, Greenfield Bassmasters
Please visit our sponsors:
http://www.geocities.com/greenfieldbass/WelcomeToOurSponsorPage.htm

[[email protected]]

If you buy the rod and a reel as a combo and the price is adjusted as a
discount on the reel and not the rod, Loomis doesn't give a hoot and all is
well. Many dealers have done this for years.

[G. M. Zimmermann]

I work in a segment of retail, though not sporting goods. Some manufactureres
or wholesalers of "seasonal" items will buy back unsold merchandise. Others
will suggest the retailer mark unsold product down and sell it off. Sometimes
unsold product will be returned to a third party who will attempt to wholesale
or retail the merchandise. And there are times when a manufactureer or
wholesaler will direct the retailer to simply store unsold merchandise for next
season (this is usually done when the retailer plans to sell the same thing
next year and has the room to store it or shelf space to keep it out, AND the
manufacturer will continu to produce the same item without replaceing it with a
new model.)
I would think these business practices would hold for sporting goods,
fishing tackel, etc.

-Zimmy

[kenneth blevins]

That is pretty much what I figured so I crossed the river[ Ohio ] talked to
another retailer and he said after Xmas if there is a lot of inventory left
over he'll possibly cut some prices.The problem with that is there's not
alot to choose from.Draw your cards and take your chances , I guess
Ken Blevins

"Bob" > wrote in message
news:hERob.76821$HS4.650404@attbi_s01...
> {yank, yank}
> That feeling on a lower extremity is your leg being pulled by the dealer.
>
> Your dealer, most likely, purchases his equipment through a wholesaler and
> not direct from Loomis (although anything is possible :-). Now, no matter
> what his source is for rods, if one supplier cuts him off for any reason,
> there will be 15 more suppliers willing to lobby him for his business. At
> the inner ends of the industry there is just as much competition,
suppliers
> for retailers, as there is in the competition of retailers for customers.
> There is no practical way for any supplier to force a dealer to sell any
> product for a supplier dictated price, as noted, the dealer can just go
> elsewhere for his merchandise. There has to be allowances for the dealer
to
> price for HIS market area competitively and also to deal with overstock,
> especially BEFORE that overstock becomes OLD stock that is even harder to
> move. To never mark an item down is to risk having it carried on the
dealers
> inventory for years and years, until he becomes able to sell it as a never
> used antique.
>
> I can just picture it, opening the paper and seeing an ad for the local
> dealer and he is having a sale (at antique prices) of 1973 Pflueger reels
> and Fenwick rods!
>
> Most likely (I hope) is that he just feels unwilling to discount Loomis
rods
> because he knows that they will sell at full price within a reasonable
> length of time with little to no carry over on inventory. And he just
wanted
> to tell you a "story" that sounds believable and that removes from your
mind
> that it is his fault that he does not discount them.
>
> Shoot straight and cast far
> Bob
>
> "kenneth blevins" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > I was in a local tackle store the other day looking for another rod.
The
> > owner asks if he can help and I ask him if he is going to discount any
of
> > his left over rods . [ which he had about 35 or so of]He tells me
> that
> > if he discounts any rods that he stands a chance of loosing his supplier
> > .Now I don't blame him for keeping "Loomis" happy but is this a normal
> > practice of people selling these rods.I have bought two new Loomis rods
> this
> > year [retail] and have to admit that I find that I'm using them more
every
> > time I fish .So with hunting sales booming and fishing sales slowing
> down
> > thought now is the time to buy. -OK right
> > Any comments
> > Ken Blevins
> >
> >
>
>

[Scott Seidman]

"Richard Liebert" > wrote in
:

> My son broke one of my 3 yr. old and quite used Loomis rods in a car
> door. Loomis sent me a brand new identical rod for $50 including
> shipping no questions asked, no receipts required, nothing, just a
> phone call. All I had to do was return the broken rod in the shipping
> tube postage paid. I think that is a fair policy.
>
>
> "AJH" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I see more guys on the internet complaining about Loomis rods than
>> any other..ie broken rods, loose handles, loose guides, warranty
>> problems..then I see guys who love them...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I fish therefore I lie
>>
>
>

FWIW, Loomis is the only major fly rod maker without an unconditional
warrantee on their rods. They do have a very reasonable repair/replace
policy, including 2-day service turnaround. I think their decision not to
buy into the unconditional replacement has let them keep their costs down
complared to other fly rod makers.

Scott