Catch & Release

[Ken Fortenberry]

Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?

Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.

If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."

http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/

--
Ken Fortenberry

[go-bassn]

Seems you're a couple days late on the airtime Ken, it ran 2x on the 6th.
So, tell us about it...

Warren

--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
. com...
> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>
> If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
> on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
> for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."
>
> http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/
>
> --
> Ken Fortenberry
>

[go-bassn]

Seems you're a couple days late on the airtime Ken, it ran 2x on the 6th.
So, tell us about it...

Warren

--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
. com...
> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>
> If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
> on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
> for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."
>
> http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/
>
> --
> Ken Fortenberry
>

[go-bassn]

Seems you're a couple days late on the airtime Ken, it ran 2x on the 6th.
So, tell us about it...

Warren

--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
. com...
> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>
> If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
> on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
> for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."
>
> http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/
>
> --
> Ken Fortenberry
>

[Todd Copeland]

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
. com...
> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.

....and eats them? If the dog eats them, I feel sorry for the dog. I can see
this creating potential health threats. On the other hand, as long as the
fish gets eaten when not thrown back I don't see a problem with not
releasing the fish.

If a person eats it for food or it's a dog that eats it, it's still being
eaten. Being eaten, for the most part, has always been an acceptable reason
for not releasing fish. In _many_ cases, releasing all caught fish actually
does more harm then good.

[Todd Copeland]

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
. com...
> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.

....and eats them? If the dog eats them, I feel sorry for the dog. I can see
this creating potential health threats. On the other hand, as long as the
fish gets eaten when not thrown back I don't see a problem with not
releasing the fish.

If a person eats it for food or it's a dog that eats it, it's still being
eaten. Being eaten, for the most part, has always been an acceptable reason
for not releasing fish. In _many_ cases, releasing all caught fish actually
does more harm then good.

[Todd Copeland]

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
. com...
> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.

....and eats them? If the dog eats them, I feel sorry for the dog. I can see
this creating potential health threats. On the other hand, as long as the
fish gets eaten when not thrown back I don't see a problem with not
releasing the fish.

If a person eats it for food or it's a dog that eats it, it's still being
eaten. Being eaten, for the most part, has always been an acceptable reason
for not releasing fish. In _many_ cases, releasing all caught fish actually
does more harm then good.

[Rodney]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>
> If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
> on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
> for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."
>
> http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/

So what, looks like a smart thing to so

It's his pond, it's over stocked with bass, and everyone knows you take
out the little bass caught on a small pond,, I know many pond owners
that just throw them up on the bank, and tell you to do the same thing
when you fish their ponds . The state fish biologist tell them to do this.

You can't C&R every bass in a pound,, you will have nothing but dinks in it
>

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>
> If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
> on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
> for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."
>
> http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/

So what, looks like a smart thing to so

It's his pond, it's over stocked with bass, and everyone knows you take
out the little bass caught on a small pond,, I know many pond owners
that just throw them up on the bank, and tell you to do the same thing
when you fish their ponds . The state fish biologist tell them to do this.

You can't C&R every bass in a pound,, you will have nothing but dinks in it
>

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Craig]

Problem was, it was a dink. An undersized bass. Is our President above the
law?

--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[Craig]

Problem was, it was a dink. An undersized bass. Is our President above the
law?

--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[Craig]

Problem was, it was a dink. An undersized bass. Is our President above the
law?

--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[Rodney]

Craig wrote:

> Problem was, it was a dink. An undersized bass. Is our President above the
> law?
>

The problem is

You don't understand fish & game laws

If I owned a pond,, I can catch and cook/throw away, 200 bass out of
that pond in a single day, and have broken no laws. I could even drain
that pond killing every fish in it, and have broken no laws.

Farm ponds and lakes are not under limit laws of the states

Limit laws are for the maintaining of species in "public" waters

WHat part of

" This lake is on my ranch"

"I Built this lake 4 years ago "

"I stocked this lake"

"the fish biologist that checks this lake twice a year tells us to
remove all undersize bass"

Did you not understand
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Craig wrote:

> Problem was, it was a dink. An undersized bass. Is our President above the
> law?
>

The problem is

You don't understand fish & game laws

If I owned a pond,, I can catch and cook/throw away, 200 bass out of
that pond in a single day, and have broken no laws. I could even drain
that pond killing every fish in it, and have broken no laws.

Farm ponds and lakes are not under limit laws of the states

Limit laws are for the maintaining of species in "public" waters

WHat part of

" This lake is on my ranch"

"I Built this lake 4 years ago "

"I stocked this lake"

"the fish biologist that checks this lake twice a year tells us to
remove all undersize bass"

Did you not understand
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Craig]

In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water enters
that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can stock it
how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit laws
can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission - under
the laws that govern wetlands.




--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[Charles B. Summers]

I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting. So if I own 500
acres... can I legally harvest deer from there 365 days a year? Nope!


"Craig" > wrote in message
news:ACWRc.100687$8_6.30108@attbi_s04...
> In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water
enters
> that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can stock
it
> how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit laws
> can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission -
under
> the laws that govern wetlands.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[Charles B. Summers]

I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting. So if I own 500
acres... can I legally harvest deer from there 365 days a year? Nope!


"Craig" > wrote in message
news:ACWRc.100687$8_6.30108@attbi_s04...
> In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water
enters
> that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can stock
it
> how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit laws
> can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission -
under
> the laws that govern wetlands.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[Charles B. Summers]

I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting. So if I own 500
acres... can I legally harvest deer from there 365 days a year? Nope!


"Craig" > wrote in message
news:ACWRc.100687$8_6.30108@attbi_s04...
> In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water
enters
> that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can stock
it
> how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit laws
> can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission -
under
> the laws that govern wetlands.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[Lure builder]

Here you do not need a fishing license and the season is open all year long on
such a pond. Even so i think there is a guiding principle for most anglers that
you don't let a fish go to spoil. That is exactly what happened when they threw
the fish to a dog (as you say) and made it part of the TV show.

[Lure builder]

Here you do not need a fishing license and the season is open all year long on
such a pond. Even so i think there is a guiding principle for most anglers that
you don't let a fish go to spoil. That is exactly what happened when they threw
the fish to a dog (as you say) and made it part of the TV show.

[Rodney]

Craig wrote:
> In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water enters
> that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can stock it
> how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit laws
> can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission - under
> the laws that govern wetlands.

That means your state is CRAZY, and you will never have any decent size
fish in a small pond,, not for long anyway,, I would love to read that
law,, surely it's posted some where on the internet ?

Let me tell you that is not the case everywhere,, and it's sure not down
south, our state has a little bit of brains when it comes to fish and
game management

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Craig wrote:
> In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water enters
> that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can stock it
> how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit laws
> can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission - under
> the laws that govern wetlands.

That means your state is CRAZY, and you will never have any decent size
fish in a small pond,, not for long anyway,, I would love to read that
law,, surely it's posted some where on the internet ?

Let me tell you that is not the case everywhere,, and it's sure not down
south, our state has a little bit of brains when it comes to fish and
game management

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[go-bassn]

I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate you
"throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Rodney" .> wrote in message
...
> Craig wrote:
>
> > Problem was, it was a dink. An undersized bass. Is our President above
the
> > law?
> >
>
> The problem is
>
> You don't understand fish & game laws
>
> If I owned a pond,, I can catch and cook/throw away, 200 bass out of
> that pond in a single day, and have broken no laws. I could even drain
> that pond killing every fish in it, and have broken no laws.
>
> Farm ponds and lakes are not under limit laws of the states
>
> Limit laws are for the maintaining of species in "public" waters
>
> WHat part of
>
> " This lake is on my ranch"
>
> "I Built this lake 4 years ago "
>
> "I stocked this lake"
>
> "the fish biologist that checks this lake twice a year tells us to
> remove all undersize bass"
>
> Did you not understand
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
>

[go-bassn]

I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate you
"throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions



"Rodney" .> wrote in message
...
> Craig wrote:
>
> > Problem was, it was a dink. An undersized bass. Is our President above
the
> > law?
> >
>
> The problem is
>
> You don't understand fish & game laws
>
> If I owned a pond,, I can catch and cook/throw away, 200 bass out of
> that pond in a single day, and have broken no laws. I could even drain
> that pond killing every fish in it, and have broken no laws.
>
> Farm ponds and lakes are not under limit laws of the states
>
> Limit laws are for the maintaining of species in "public" waters
>
> WHat part of
>
> " This lake is on my ranch"
>
> "I Built this lake 4 years ago "
>
> "I stocked this lake"
>
> "the fish biologist that checks this lake twice a year tells us to
> remove all undersize bass"
>
> Did you not understand
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
>

[Craig]

Rodney wrote: "That means your state is CRAZY, and you will never have any
decent size
fish in a small pond,, not for long anyway,, I would love to read that
law,, surely it's posted some where on the internet ? "

Reponses: Probably is, but don't look for me to go find it.

Rodney wrote: "Let me tell you that is not the case everywhere,, and it's
sure not down south, our state has a little bit of brains when it comes to
fish and game management"

Response: If George has anything to do with it, you're right, a little brain
is involved - very little. The man is an idiot, who has stiffed way Too
much coke!!!


--
Craig Baugher
Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!

[Calif Bill]

"Craig" > wrote in message
news:g4WRc.229267$a24.154013@attbi_s03...
> Problem was, it was a dink. An undersized bass. Is our President above
the
> law?
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

Lots of places do not have size limits. In California, some lakes have a
slot limit, and others a minimum size and others have no size limit.
Bill

[Calif Bill]

"Craig" > wrote in message
news:g4WRc.229267$a24.154013@attbi_s03...
> Problem was, it was a dink. An undersized bass. Is our President above
the
> law?
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

Lots of places do not have size limits. In California, some lakes have a
slot limit, and others a minimum size and others have no size limit.
Bill

[Budd Cochran]

"Craig" > wrote in message
news:tEXRc.233206$%_6.50272@attbi_s01...
>
> Response: If George has anything to do with it, you're right, a little
brain
> is involved - very little. The man is an idiot, who has stiffed way Too
> much coke!!!
>
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

AHA!!!

The truth rears it's ugly head. You simply dislike Bush so therefore
everything he does is subject to your disapproval.

You have to remember the worst thing about U.S. politics is the politicians
.... all of them.

Budd

[Budd Cochran]

"Craig" > wrote in message
news:tEXRc.233206$%_6.50272@attbi_s01...
>
> Response: If George has anything to do with it, you're right, a little
brain
> is involved - very little. The man is an idiot, who has stiffed way Too
> much coke!!!
>
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

AHA!!!

The truth rears it's ugly head. You simply dislike Bush so therefore
everything he does is subject to your disapproval.

You have to remember the worst thing about U.S. politics is the politicians
.... all of them.

Budd

[Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers]

"Charles B. Summers" > wrote in message
.. .
> I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting. So if I own 500
> acres... can I legally harvest deer from there 365 days a year? Nope!

Actually Charles, you can! If you have that 500 acres totally surrounded by
fence, there were no deer there to begin with, and you paid for the deer
that are now in there, you can hunt deer 365 days a year.

High fence operations do that all the time. AND, you don't need to have a
hunter's safety certificate, a hunting licence and you can use any weapon
that your little ol' heart desires.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

[Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers]

"Charles B. Summers" > wrote in message
.. .
> I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting. So if I own 500
> acres... can I legally harvest deer from there 365 days a year? Nope!

Actually Charles, you can! If you have that 500 acres totally surrounded by
fence, there were no deer there to begin with, and you paid for the deer
that are now in there, you can hunt deer 365 days a year.

High fence operations do that all the time. AND, you don't need to have a
hunter's safety certificate, a hunting licence and you can use any weapon
that your little ol' heart desires.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

[Rodney]

Charles B. Summers wrote:
> I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting. So if I own 500
> acres... can I legally harvest deer from there 365 days a year? Nope!

Only if it is high fenced off so no wild deer can come onto the land,
and all deer there, you legally put on your land (imported), there are
no native deer there. (native wild deer are property of the state, as
they were not yours to start with, neither are their young, even if you
fence them in)

When a person builds a pound there is nothing there, everything must be
purchased and stocked by the land owner,, these are no longer wild
stock, the land owner owns the pound the water and everything in it,,
this is true for Texas, and for Alabama, it might not be true for
communist states (where the state claims ownership of anything they want to)

WHy argue with me about this ,, just look it up

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

go-bassn wrote:

> I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate you
> "throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.

That's one reason you have so few large bass in small compounds, we have
a state park here, that has a sign on it's three lakes to take every
bass out you catch, up to the 10 fish limit, that C&R has damaged the
fishing in these three lakes

I have a photo of that sign I can post to the other news group

These lakes are small, the biggest being 100 acres.

Game management requires just that, managing, and adjusting the slots
and limits to each body of water for the correct balance of sized fish

WHat's good on a 100,000 acre lake that has 1,000 fisherman fishing it a
day, is not good for a 10 acre farm pond with two fishermen fishing it
once a mouth.

Some here complain about all the little bass they catch, take out some
of those little bass and the others have food enough to become huge bass.

When I have caught 40 + bass in a day, and none over 2 lbs, then that
water is over stocked, it needs to be thinned out to grow some big ones,
I have had many 40+ days on small private lakes and ponds, and all of
them dinks, sure they are fun to catch, but I would have rather caught
10, 4 to 6 lb'ers, than 60, 1 lb'ers.

I think some of you guys like a lot of "Hungry" fish :-)

I like my bass well fed

In most of our private lakes now we take out everything under 2 lbs,
return the rest to keep growing, you won't/can't catch all the dinks, so
there will always be bass coming up to size, especially with all those
huge bass spawning every year
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

go-bassn wrote:

> I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate you
> "throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.

That's one reason you have so few large bass in small compounds, we have
a state park here, that has a sign on it's three lakes to take every
bass out you catch, up to the 10 fish limit, that C&R has damaged the
fishing in these three lakes

I have a photo of that sign I can post to the other news group

These lakes are small, the biggest being 100 acres.

Game management requires just that, managing, and adjusting the slots
and limits to each body of water for the correct balance of sized fish

WHat's good on a 100,000 acre lake that has 1,000 fisherman fishing it a
day, is not good for a 10 acre farm pond with two fishermen fishing it
once a mouth.

Some here complain about all the little bass they catch, take out some
of those little bass and the others have food enough to become huge bass.

When I have caught 40 + bass in a day, and none over 2 lbs, then that
water is over stocked, it needs to be thinned out to grow some big ones,
I have had many 40+ days on small private lakes and ponds, and all of
them dinks, sure they are fun to catch, but I would have rather caught
10, 4 to 6 lb'ers, than 60, 1 lb'ers.

I think some of you guys like a lot of "Hungry" fish :-)

I like my bass well fed

In most of our private lakes now we take out everything under 2 lbs,
return the rest to keep growing, you won't/can't catch all the dinks, so
there will always be bass coming up to size, especially with all those
huge bass spawning every year
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[go-bassn]

C&R has nothing to do with root of the problem, though it doesn't help
improve it. The lakes you speak of are out of balance as a result of a weak
link or links in their ecostystems. It also has nothing to do with the size
of the lakes either, as vast water bodies can be subject to imbalances as
well (although not as likely). Small lakes & ponds can & do have totally
healthy, balanced predator/prey populations for decades.

In your lakes bass are most likely the top predator. If they become stunted
& overpopulated it's a result of a weakness far below them in the food chain
that results in a significant lack of forage. This can be caused by lots of
things, from lack of nursery cover to overstocking of predatory species.
Basically everyone in there needs to eat when they're hungry.

Ceasing C&R practices is nothing more than a temporary fix, it does nothing
to solve the problem. And throwing away perfectly good bass is a rediculous
waste of a resource.

Warren

"Rodney" > wrote in message
...
> go-bassn wrote:
>
> > I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate
you
> > "throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.
>
> That's one reason you have so few large bass in small compounds, we have
> a state park here, that has a sign on it's three lakes to take every
> bass out you catch, up to the 10 fish limit, that C&R has damaged the
> fishing in these three lakes
>
> I have a photo of that sign I can post to the other news group
>
> These lakes are small, the biggest being 100 acres.
>
> Game management requires just that, managing, and adjusting the slots
> and limits to each body of water for the correct balance of sized fish
>
> WHat's good on a 100,000 acre lake that has 1,000 fisherman fishing it a
> day, is not good for a 10 acre farm pond with two fishermen fishing it
> once a mouth.
>
> Some here complain about all the little bass they catch, take out some
> of those little bass and the others have food enough to become huge bass.
>
> When I have caught 40 + bass in a day, and none over 2 lbs, then that
> water is over stocked, it needs to be thinned out to grow some big ones,
> I have had many 40+ days on small private lakes and ponds, and all of
> them dinks, sure they are fun to catch, but I would have rather caught
> 10, 4 to 6 lb'ers, than 60, 1 lb'ers.
>
> I think some of you guys like a lot of "Hungry" fish :-)
>
> I like my bass well fed
>
> In most of our private lakes now we take out everything under 2 lbs,
> return the rest to keep growing, you won't/can't catch all the dinks, so
> there will always be bass coming up to size, especially with all those
> huge bass spawning every year
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
>

[go-bassn]

C&R has nothing to do with root of the problem, though it doesn't help
improve it. The lakes you speak of are out of balance as a result of a weak
link or links in their ecostystems. It also has nothing to do with the size
of the lakes either, as vast water bodies can be subject to imbalances as
well (although not as likely). Small lakes & ponds can & do have totally
healthy, balanced predator/prey populations for decades.

In your lakes bass are most likely the top predator. If they become stunted
& overpopulated it's a result of a weakness far below them in the food chain
that results in a significant lack of forage. This can be caused by lots of
things, from lack of nursery cover to overstocking of predatory species.
Basically everyone in there needs to eat when they're hungry.

Ceasing C&R practices is nothing more than a temporary fix, it does nothing
to solve the problem. And throwing away perfectly good bass is a rediculous
waste of a resource.

Warren

"Rodney" > wrote in message
...
> go-bassn wrote:
>
> > I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate
you
> > "throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.
>
> That's one reason you have so few large bass in small compounds, we have
> a state park here, that has a sign on it's three lakes to take every
> bass out you catch, up to the 10 fish limit, that C&R has damaged the
> fishing in these three lakes
>
> I have a photo of that sign I can post to the other news group
>
> These lakes are small, the biggest being 100 acres.
>
> Game management requires just that, managing, and adjusting the slots
> and limits to each body of water for the correct balance of sized fish
>
> WHat's good on a 100,000 acre lake that has 1,000 fisherman fishing it a
> day, is not good for a 10 acre farm pond with two fishermen fishing it
> once a mouth.
>
> Some here complain about all the little bass they catch, take out some
> of those little bass and the others have food enough to become huge bass.
>
> When I have caught 40 + bass in a day, and none over 2 lbs, then that
> water is over stocked, it needs to be thinned out to grow some big ones,
> I have had many 40+ days on small private lakes and ponds, and all of
> them dinks, sure they are fun to catch, but I would have rather caught
> 10, 4 to 6 lb'ers, than 60, 1 lb'ers.
>
> I think some of you guys like a lot of "Hungry" fish :-)
>
> I like my bass well fed
>
> In most of our private lakes now we take out everything under 2 lbs,
> return the rest to keep growing, you won't/can't catch all the dinks, so
> there will always be bass coming up to size, especially with all those
> huge bass spawning every year
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
>

[go-bassn]

"Lure builder" > wrote in message
...
> i think there is a guiding principle for most anglers that
> you don't let a fish go to spoil.

I'm embarrased to admit it, but you've said something here that makes, well,
sense.

ROTFLMAO, never thought I'd say that!

Warren

[RGarri7470]

>In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water enters
>that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
>wildlife that is in it or on it

Wow - glad I don't own property there - uh, you can own property? Or do you
just occupy it for the state?
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[RGarri7470]

>I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting.

Game animals and birds are different. They can move from one property to
another. Fish in my pond ain't likely to show up a mile away in public water.
Maybe if the is a big flood, but not normally.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[RGarri7470]

>I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting.

Game animals and birds are different. They can move from one property to
another. Fish in my pond ain't likely to show up a mile away in public water.
Maybe if the is a big flood, but not normally.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[RGarri7470]

>I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate you
>"throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.
>
>Warren

Sorry, Warren, but I agree completely. I had a state fisheries biologists tell
me two weeks ago that I should remove small bass from my pond, even if I just
discard them. Removing them is the only way to keep teh pond in balance. I have
not been doing that and had a bad fish kill in one pond because it is
overpopulated. What I do with fish in my pond does not affect anyone but me.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[Jeff]

That's not exactly true. Look at what pheasant farms do for dog training.
You can hunt pheasant on those farms all year long. Deer can be hunted the
same way with a fence if you bought and paid for the deer assuming no deer
were in place to begin with. It is possible that these laws very from state
to state. I am pretty certain that in Ohio, if the pond does not drain into
public waters, you can do whatever you want.

Jeff


"Charles B. Summers" > wrote in message
.. .
> I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting. So if I own 500
> acres... can I legally harvest deer from there 365 days a year? Nope!
>
>
> "Craig" > wrote in message
> news:ACWRc.100687$8_6.30108@attbi_s04...
> > In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water
> enters
> > that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> > wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can stock
> it
> > how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit
laws
> > can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission -
> under
> > the laws that govern wetlands.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Craig Baugher
> > Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
> >
> >
>
>

[Jeff]

So, if John Kerry did this, it would not have been a problem? Oh wait --
that is the guy that thought cutting holes in the ice was cheating. No
actually, that was Bill Clinton. Kerry was too dumb to figure it out. :-)

Jeff


"Craig" > wrote in message
news:tEXRc.233206$%_6.50272@attbi_s01...
> Rodney wrote: "That means your state is CRAZY, and you will never have any
> decent size
> fish in a small pond,, not for long anyway,, I would love to read that
> law,, surely it's posted some where on the internet ? "
>
> Reponses: Probably is, but don't look for me to go find it.
>
> Rodney wrote: "Let me tell you that is not the case everywhere,, and it's
> sure not down south, our state has a little bit of brains when it comes to
> fish and game management"
>
> Response: If George has anything to do with it, you're right, a little
brain
> is involved - very little. The man is an idiot, who has stiffed way Too
> much coke!!!
>
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[Jeff]

So, if John Kerry did this, it would not have been a problem? Oh wait --
that is the guy that thought cutting holes in the ice was cheating. No
actually, that was Bill Clinton. Kerry was too dumb to figure it out. :-)

Jeff


"Craig" > wrote in message
news:tEXRc.233206$%_6.50272@attbi_s01...
> Rodney wrote: "That means your state is CRAZY, and you will never have any
> decent size
> fish in a small pond,, not for long anyway,, I would love to read that
> law,, surely it's posted some where on the internet ? "
>
> Reponses: Probably is, but don't look for me to go find it.
>
> Rodney wrote: "Let me tell you that is not the case everywhere,, and it's
> sure not down south, our state has a little bit of brains when it comes to
> fish and game management"
>
> Response: If George has anything to do with it, you're right, a little
brain
> is involved - very little. The man is an idiot, who has stiffed way Too
> much coke!!!
>
>
> --
> Craig Baugher
> Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
>
>

[Rodney]

go-bassn wrote:

> C&R has nothing to do with root of the problem, though it doesn't help
> improve it. The lakes you speak of are out of balance as a result of a weak
> link or links in their ecostystems. It also has nothing to do with the size
> of the lakes either, as vast water bodies can be subject to imbalances as
> well (although not as likely). Small lakes & ponds can & do have totally
> healthy, balanced predator/prey populations for decades.
>
> In your lakes bass are most likely the top predator. If they become stunted
> & overpopulated it's a result of a weakness far below them in the food chain
> that results in a significant lack of forage. This can be caused by lots of
> things, from lack of nursery cover to overstocking of predatory species.
> Basically everyone in there needs to eat when they're hungry.
>
> Ceasing C&R practices is nothing more than a temporary fix, it does nothing
> to solve the problem. And throwing away perfectly good bass is a rediculous
> waste of a resource.
>
> Warren

Ponds are balanced to "provide" some removal of fish, the "perfect"
balance without removing those fish from small compounds can not be had,
there is no pond that is "perfect" and grow trophy fish, without the
removal of bass


WHy don't you spend a little time with your wildlife department's
biologist, like i have for 30 years, they do accept volunteer workers to
help them out, at least my state does.

At least do a little research in pond management

Knowing how to catch fish does not make you an expert on the
conservation of fish.

You must be a democrat They all think the "world" can be made perfect :-)

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

go-bassn wrote:

> C&R has nothing to do with root of the problem, though it doesn't help
> improve it. The lakes you speak of are out of balance as a result of a weak
> link or links in their ecostystems. It also has nothing to do with the size
> of the lakes either, as vast water bodies can be subject to imbalances as
> well (although not as likely). Small lakes & ponds can & do have totally
> healthy, balanced predator/prey populations for decades.
>
> In your lakes bass are most likely the top predator. If they become stunted
> & overpopulated it's a result of a weakness far below them in the food chain
> that results in a significant lack of forage. This can be caused by lots of
> things, from lack of nursery cover to overstocking of predatory species.
> Basically everyone in there needs to eat when they're hungry.
>
> Ceasing C&R practices is nothing more than a temporary fix, it does nothing
> to solve the problem. And throwing away perfectly good bass is a rediculous
> waste of a resource.
>
> Warren

Ponds are balanced to "provide" some removal of fish, the "perfect"
balance without removing those fish from small compounds can not be had,
there is no pond that is "perfect" and grow trophy fish, without the
removal of bass


WHy don't you spend a little time with your wildlife department's
biologist, like i have for 30 years, they do accept volunteer workers to
help them out, at least my state does.

At least do a little research in pond management

Knowing how to catch fish does not make you an expert on the
conservation of fish.

You must be a democrat They all think the "world" can be made perfect :-)

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

RGarri7470 wrote:


> Sorry, Warren, but I agree completely. I had a state fisheries biologists tell
> me two weeks ago that I should remove small bass from my pond, even if I just
> discard them. Removing them is the only way to keep teh pond in balance. I have
> not been doing that and had a bad fish kill in one pond because it is
> overpopulated. What I do with fish in my pond does not affect anyone but me.
> Ronnie

He won't believe you Ronnie, well, at least he won't admit I was right,
some how he thinks I'm a threat to him, If I know something he does not.

If I tell the group the sky is blue,, he will say it's gray. He does not
understand how bad this makes him look
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

RGarri7470 wrote:


> Sorry, Warren, but I agree completely. I had a state fisheries biologists tell
> me two weeks ago that I should remove small bass from my pond, even if I just
> discard them. Removing them is the only way to keep teh pond in balance. I have
> not been doing that and had a bad fish kill in one pond because it is
> overpopulated. What I do with fish in my pond does not affect anyone but me.
> Ronnie

He won't believe you Ronnie, well, at least he won't admit I was right,
some how he thinks I'm a threat to him, If I know something he does not.

If I tell the group the sky is blue,, he will say it's gray. He does not
understand how bad this makes him look
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Jeff]

That is an interesting comment. Most Republicans I know are Christians.
Many Democrats I know are not. I am not saying that a Democrat cannot be a
Christian. A Christian knows that this world will not be made perfect by
our actions. It will get better upon the return of you know who. Then it
will be destroyed and remade.

I am not trying to stereotype anyone, but perhaps that is the fundamental
difference between the two parties. Also, liberals tend to see things as
complex issues -- three sides to a two sided coin. Conservatives view
things more as black & white or right & wrong.

Let's get back to fishing!!!

Jeff


"Rodney" .> wrote in message
...
> go-bassn wrote:
>
>
> You must be a democrat They all think the "world" can be made perfect :-)
>
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
>

[Jeff]

That is an interesting comment. Most Republicans I know are Christians.
Many Democrats I know are not. I am not saying that a Democrat cannot be a
Christian. A Christian knows that this world will not be made perfect by
our actions. It will get better upon the return of you know who. Then it
will be destroyed and remade.

I am not trying to stereotype anyone, but perhaps that is the fundamental
difference between the two parties. Also, liberals tend to see things as
complex issues -- three sides to a two sided coin. Conservatives view
things more as black & white or right & wrong.

Let's get back to fishing!!!

Jeff


"Rodney" .> wrote in message
...
> go-bassn wrote:
>
>
> You must be a democrat They all think the "world" can be made perfect :-)
>
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
>

[Ken Fortenberry]

Jeff wrote:

> ... A Christian knows that this world will not be made perfect by
> our actions. It will get better upon the return of you know who. Then it
> will be destroyed and remade.
> <snip>

That's kinda the gist of all those Tim LaHaye "Left Behind" books
right ? The Lord and Saviour returns to earth, plucks off all the
"faithful" and the rest of us get famine, floods and pestilence.

Sounds like a fair trade to me. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Ken Fortenberry]

RGarri7470 wrote:

>>I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate you
>>"throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.
>>
>>Warren
>
> Sorry, Warren, but I agree completely. I had a state fisheries biologists tell
> me two weeks ago that I should remove small bass from my pond, even if I just
> discard them. Removing them is the only way to keep teh pond in balance. I have
> not been doing that and had a bad fish kill in one pond because it is
> overpopulated. What I do with fish in my pond does not affect anyone but me.

Removing dinks is one thing, I don't know anything about Texas
fish & geame laws, but that's not really the point. An ethical
sportsman does not toss a live bass onto the deck of his boat
and let his dog gnaw on it for fun while it dies a slow death.

Kill the bass, eat the bass, cull the bass, whatever, but have
a little respect in the process. I would, and I suspect most
here would too.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Ken Fortenberry]

RGarri7470 wrote:

>>I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate you
>>"throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.
>>
>>Warren
>
> Sorry, Warren, but I agree completely. I had a state fisheries biologists tell
> me two weeks ago that I should remove small bass from my pond, even if I just
> discard them. Removing them is the only way to keep teh pond in balance. I have
> not been doing that and had a bad fish kill in one pond because it is
> overpopulated. What I do with fish in my pond does not affect anyone but me.

Removing dinks is one thing, I don't know anything about Texas
fish & geame laws, but that's not really the point. An ethical
sportsman does not toss a live bass onto the deck of his boat
and let his dog gnaw on it for fun while it dies a slow death.

Kill the bass, eat the bass, cull the bass, whatever, but have
a little respect in the process. I would, and I suspect most
here would too.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[RGarri7470]

>o, if John Kerry did this, it would not have been a problem? Oh wait --
>that is the guy that thought cutting holes in the ice was cheating

No,John Kerry is the one that made the following statement about deer hunting
being his favorite type hunting: "I go out with my trusty 12-gauge
double-barrel, crawl around on my stomach. I track and move and decoy and play
games and
try to outsmart them. You know, you kind of play the wind.That's hunting."
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[RGarri7470]

>Kill the bass, eat the bass, cull the bass, whatever, but have
>a little respect in the process. I would, and I suspect most
>here would too.
>
>--
>Ken Fortenberry
>
Would you say the same thing about bluegill? How about carp or gar?
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[RGarri7470]

>Kill the bass, eat the bass, cull the bass, whatever, but have
>a little respect in the process. I would, and I suspect most
>here would too.
>
>--
>Ken Fortenberry
>
Would you say the same thing about bluegill? How about carp or gar?
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[RGarri7470]

Response: If George has anything to do with it, you're right,,,,,,,


Craig you just earned my second killfile. I hoped I got away from name calling
when I quit teaching middle school kids.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[Rodney]

Craig wrote:
> Rodney wrote: "That means your state is CRAZY, and you will never have any
> decent size
> fish in a small pond,, not for long anyway,, I would love to read that
> law,, surely it's posted some where on the internet ? "
>
> Reponses: Probably is, but don't look for me to go find it.

So you don't know this as a fact,, it's just something you heard some
where ?

I don't have a problem with people telling me what they "think" is true,
as long as they qualify the statement stating they, think, or have
heard, or believe. Nothing wrong with stating your beliefs, maybe
someone else can correct you if they are wrong, or certify them if you
are right

Or

If you do know it is fact, you want others to prove, or disprove it as
fact ? you will offer no proof beyond you just stating it, and expect
everyone else to just believe you, or at least not to question you ?

After I get off these drugs, and finally pass this kidney stone (who
knows when,, maybe I will know tomorrow after seeing the Dr. again)

I will find out about your state, and post the details of the facts
here, to see if the pond owner owns his stocked fish, and can do with
them as he pleases. If your right, and you very well may be,, I pity you
living in such a state, as they are in dire need of people with more
than a high school education running their fish and game department.


--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[BassMr]

I didn't see any bass dying a "slow and painful death",that must be the
Democrats take on the scene though.By the end of the week the Kerry lovers
will be saying that the dog was gutting the fish w/ his teeth,with blood and
scales flying everywhere while the President looked on with glee.Long live
the Democrats,right minded conservative AMERICANS enjoy the slapstick
politics.
Ken,is your next post going to attack Jerry McGinnis and his little
Dachsund? KILLFILE (and you are my very first)
"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
. ..
> RGarri7470 wrote:
>
> >>I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate
you
> >>"throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.
> >>
> >>Warren
> >
> > Sorry, Warren, but I agree completely. I had a state fisheries
biologists tell
> > me two weeks ago that I should remove small bass from my pond, even if I
just
> > discard them. Removing them is the only way to keep teh pond in balance.
I have
> > not been doing that and had a bad fish kill in one pond because it is
> > overpopulated. What I do with fish in my pond does not affect anyone but
me.
>
> Removing dinks is one thing, I don't know anything about Texas
> fish & geame laws, but that's not really the point. .An ethical
> sportsman does not toss a live bass onto the deck of his boat
> and let his dog gnaw on it for fun while it dies a slow death
>
> Kill the bass, eat the bass, cull the bass, whatever, but have
> a little respect in the process. I would, and I suspect most
> here would too.
>
> --
> Ken Fortenberry
>

[Scott Seidman]

"Todd Copeland" > wrote in
link.net:

> "Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in
> message . com...
>> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>>
>> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
>> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>
> ...and eats them? If the dog eats them, I feel sorry for the dog. I
> can see this creating potential health threats. On the other hand, as
> long as the fish gets eaten when not thrown back I don't see a problem
> with not releasing the fish.
>
> If a person eats it for food or it's a dog that eats it, it's still
> being eaten. Being eaten, for the most part, has always been an
> acceptable reason for not releasing fish. In _many_ cases, releasing
> all caught fish actually does more harm then good.
>
>
>

There's got to be some metaphor for trickle down economics in here
someplace, but damned if I can't phrase it right? Little help?

Scott

[Scott Seidman]

"Todd Copeland" > wrote in
link.net:

> "Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in
> message . com...
>> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>>
>> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
>> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>
> ...and eats them? If the dog eats them, I feel sorry for the dog. I
> can see this creating potential health threats. On the other hand, as
> long as the fish gets eaten when not thrown back I don't see a problem
> with not releasing the fish.
>
> If a person eats it for food or it's a dog that eats it, it's still
> being eaten. Being eaten, for the most part, has always been an
> acceptable reason for not releasing fish. In _many_ cases, releasing
> all caught fish actually does more harm then good.
>
>
>

There's got to be some metaphor for trickle down economics in here
someplace, but damned if I can't phrase it right? Little help?

Scott

[Ken Fortenberry]

RGarri7470 wrote:

>>Kill the bass, eat the bass, cull the bass, whatever, but have
>>a little respect in the process. I would, and I suspect most
>>here would too.
>>
>>--
>>Ken Fortenberry
>>
>
> Would you say the same thing about bluegill? How about carp or gar?

Sure, wouldn't you ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Ken Fortenberry]

BassMr wrote:

> I didn't see any bass dying a "slow and painful death",that must be the
> Democrats take on the scene though.By the end of the week the Kerry lovers
> will be saying that the dog was gutting the fish w/ his teeth,with blood and
> scales flying everywhere while the President looked on with glee.Long live
> the Democrats,right minded conservative AMERICANS enjoy the slapstick
> politics.
> Ken,is your next post going to attack Jerry McGinnis and his little
> Dachsund? KILLFILE (and you are my very first)

Goodness gracious, Mr. BassMr, you seem to be going off the
deep end just a bit, don't you think ?

Most of us have been taught the ethics of sportsmanship and
most of us know that ethical sportsmen do not toss live fish
onto the deck of the boat so the dog can play with it. Those
are the actions of a thoughtless and clueless man and not
those of an ethical sportsman. At some level you too must know
this which is why you are the first one in this thread to
utter the word "Democrats."

Methinks thou dost protesteth way too damn much.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Rodney]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

>
> Goodness gracious, Mr. BassMr, you seem to be going off the
> deep end just a bit, don't you think ?
>
> Most of us have been taught the ethics of sportsmanship

SOrry but there is no such thing, "ethics of sportsman", a writen set of
ethical rules that all real sportsmen should follow

Instead this is a personal thing, complaining because someone else does
not follow what you "think" is ethical, is crap, as each sportsman has
their own level of "ethics" Each one, feels theirs is right

Your is not the same as a person who is a sportsman that loves the out
doors but is a member of PETA, oh but they are left wingers, as you and
I know, but to them you have no ethics.

Then we have the You must not in any way harm the fish, they are looking
to replace hooks with lasso's

Then we have the C&R everything, you don't need to kill fish for any
reason, they yell at anyone who keeps and eat fish

Then we have the C&R bass only, you absolutely must C&R every bass or
your un ethical, you must never "waste" any fish if you need to remove
all little bass you must eat the three inch ones.

SOme people think it's OK to keep some bass,, only if your going to eat
them that night, you must throw back all the big bass and only eat the
smaller ones

The list of ethics just keeps going on and on,, some don't believe that
any fishermen who uses live bait is ethical, they're not a sportsman,
they're a harvester.

B.S. to all of this, if what another sportsman does is "legal" I should
not complain about what I think his ethics should be, it's none of my
business, if I don't like something,, then I should get the "law"
changed, States have limits, because they want to maintain the fishery,
they decide what should be kept and what "must" be released. I have no
right to tell another what must be released.

That's one of the biggest problems in this country, people telling
others what they must do to be "Ethical",, this fighting among our
selves over what is ethical, is what the PETA folks want, they don't
want us united, they want us divided, and they want to get other
sportsmen to help chip away at our rights, until everyone has their
"Ethics" after all, they think they are the real People for the Ethical
Treatment of Animals




> and
> most of us know that ethical sportsmen do not toss live fish
> onto the deck of the boat so the dog can play with it.

WHy not,, what difference is this than, you playing with it, on the end
of a line with a hook impelled through it. Now you justify that against
the dog playing with it, now explain the difference to a member of PETA
see if you can convince them.

What's the difference of this than a mink or otter playing with his
catch ? This occurs in nature, it's natural



--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Ken Fortenberry]

Rodney wrote:
> Ken Fortenberry wrote:
>> <snip>
>> Most of us have been taught the ethics of sportsmanship
>
> SOrry but there is no such thing, "ethics of sportsman", a writen set of
> ethical rules that all real sportsmen should follow

It may not be written down, but there is such a thing.

>> and
>> most of us know that ethical sportsmen do not toss live fish
>> onto the deck of the boat so the dog can play with it.
>
> WHy not,, what difference is this than, you playing with it, on the end
> of a line with a hook impelled through it. ...

You're right in that we all have to interpret the "ethics" of what
we do as sportsmen for ourselves. In general I agree with you, if
it's legal, others can't really bitch about it. But I said most of
us wouldn't toss a dink bass onto the deck of the boat and I think
that's true. While it may be legal, I was taught differently.

I think casually tossing a dink bass to the dog demonstrates a lack
of character, but I am not suggesting that anyone should be arrested
or fined for lacking character.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Ken Fortenberry]

Rodney wrote:
> Ken Fortenberry wrote:
>> <snip>
>> Most of us have been taught the ethics of sportsmanship
>
> SOrry but there is no such thing, "ethics of sportsman", a writen set of
> ethical rules that all real sportsmen should follow

It may not be written down, but there is such a thing.

>> and
>> most of us know that ethical sportsmen do not toss live fish
>> onto the deck of the boat so the dog can play with it.
>
> WHy not,, what difference is this than, you playing with it, on the end
> of a line with a hook impelled through it. ...

You're right in that we all have to interpret the "ethics" of what
we do as sportsmen for ourselves. In general I agree with you, if
it's legal, others can't really bitch about it. But I said most of
us wouldn't toss a dink bass onto the deck of the boat and I think
that's true. While it may be legal, I was taught differently.

I think casually tossing a dink bass to the dog demonstrates a lack
of character, but I am not suggesting that anyone should be arrested
or fined for lacking character.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Calif Bill]

Yes. Do not make any animal suffer for long periods of time when it is
avoidable.
Bill

"RGarri7470" > wrote in message
...
> >Kill the bass, eat the bass, cull the bass, whatever, but have
> >a little respect in the process. I would, and I suspect most
> >here would too.
> >
> >--
> >Ken Fortenberry
> >
> Would you say the same thing about bluegill? How about carp or gar?
> Ronnie
>
> http://fishing.about.com

[Rodney]

Craig wrote:
> In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water enters
> that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can stock it
> how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit laws
> can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission - under
> the laws that govern wetlands.

WEll I could not find the information on the internet,, but I did find
the right phone number to call

1 906 293 5131

I talked to Chuck Payment, fish biologist for the state of Michigan DNR.

Here are the FACTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I asked him did I need to follow state limit laws on a private
pond, his response was

"WHat ????????????????

I have never had anyone actually ask me that question"

He went on to say

"A private pond, is just that, private. The fish belong to the pond
owner, he can harvest them anyway he wishes, when ever he wishes. No
state size limits or creel limits apply"

"The only problem that "could" happen is when transporting more than
daily limit of public waters, (taking them to a church fish fry or
something similar) you would need some kind of proof they came from your
pond, instead of public waters, this would be handled on a case by case
bases."

"On draining a private pound, if it is a dug pond you can drain it
without permit, if it has a damn, and the drain water will run into a
stream you need a permit to drain it, to make sure your not putting
pollution into the stream (ponds on industrial sites is the reason for
this, that could be contaminated)"

End quotes

*Of course if you drain a dug pond, to me, I would think the water would
run into a stream somewhere :-)

So Crig,, you were believing an Urban myth about private ponds, you
evidently over heard someone saying this,, nothing wrong with being
wrong, if you admit it :-)

This is how we learn sometimes, we don't know until we ask, and many
times what we believe, is not how it really is.
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Craig wrote:
> In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water enters
> that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can stock it
> how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit laws
> can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission - under
> the laws that govern wetlands.

WEll I could not find the information on the internet,, but I did find
the right phone number to call

1 906 293 5131

I talked to Chuck Payment, fish biologist for the state of Michigan DNR.

Here are the FACTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I asked him did I need to follow state limit laws on a private
pond, his response was

"WHat ????????????????

I have never had anyone actually ask me that question"

He went on to say

"A private pond, is just that, private. The fish belong to the pond
owner, he can harvest them anyway he wishes, when ever he wishes. No
state size limits or creel limits apply"

"The only problem that "could" happen is when transporting more than
daily limit of public waters, (taking them to a church fish fry or
something similar) you would need some kind of proof they came from your
pond, instead of public waters, this would be handled on a case by case
bases."

"On draining a private pound, if it is a dug pond you can drain it
without permit, if it has a damn, and the drain water will run into a
stream you need a permit to drain it, to make sure your not putting
pollution into the stream (ponds on industrial sites is the reason for
this, that could be contaminated)"

End quotes

*Of course if you drain a dug pond, to me, I would think the water would
run into a stream somewhere :-)

So Crig,, you were believing an Urban myth about private ponds, you
evidently over heard someone saying this,, nothing wrong with being
wrong, if you admit it :-)

This is how we learn sometimes, we don't know until we ask, and many
times what we believe, is not how it really is.
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

> Rodney wrote:
>
>> Ken Fortenberry wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>
>>> Most of us have been taught the ethics of sportsmanship
>>
>>
>> SOrry but there is no such thing, "ethics of sportsman", a writen set
>> of ethical rules that all real sportsmen should follow
>
>
> It may not be written down, but there is such a thing.
>
>>> and
>>> most of us know that ethical sportsmen do not toss live fish
>>> onto the deck of the boat so the dog can play with it.
>>
>>
>> WHy not,, what difference is this than, you playing with it, on the
>> end of a line with a hook impelled through it. ...
>
>
> You're right in that we all have to interpret the "ethics" of what
> we do as sportsmen for ourselves. In general I agree with you, if
> it's legal, others can't really bitch about it. But I said most of
> us wouldn't toss a dink bass onto the deck of the boat and I think
> that's true. While it may be legal, I was taught differently.
>
> I think casually tossing a dink bass to the dog demonstrates a lack
> of character, but I am not suggesting that anyone should be arrested
> or fined for lacking character.
>


So now you say anyone without your ethics has no character,, or is it
just George has none? :-)
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Calif Bill wrote:

> Yes. Do not make any animal suffer for long periods of time when it is
> avoidable.
> Bill

Now Bill many people (not those on this list nor me) you hooking the
fish in the first place does this.

Get my point :-)

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Calif Bill wrote:

> Yes. Do not make any animal suffer for long periods of time when it is
> avoidable.
> Bill

Now Bill many people (not those on this list nor me) you hooking the
fish in the first place does this.

Get my point :-)

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Ken Fortenberry]

Rodney wrote:
> Ken Fortenberry wrote:
>> But I said most of
>> us wouldn't toss a dink bass onto the deck of the boat and I think
>> that's true. While it may be legal, I was taught differently.
>>
>> I think casually tossing a dink bass to the dog demonstrates a lack
>> of character, but I am not suggesting that anyone should be arrested
>> or fined for lacking character.
>
> So now you say anyone without your ethics has no character,,

I said no such thing. I have left what I did say right there
on your screen. Do not put words in my mouth.

> or is it
> just George has none? :-)

I'll leave that alone.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Scott Seidman]

Rodney .> wrote in news:10hksu1lfqh7g64
@corp.supernews.com:

> So Crig,, you were believing an Urban myth about private ponds, you
> evidently over heard someone saying this,, nothing wrong with being
> wrong, if you admit it :-)

Well, here's the law in NY
*********
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcode.pl?frame=right2
&code=NY&ls=claws&law=37&art=33

" 2. The department may issue to the owner or lessee of a farm fish pond
a license, effective for a period of five years, entitling the holder to
manage such fish pond for the production of fish. The department shall
fix the terms of each such license and may include therein (a)
permission to control undesirable fish, aquatic vegetation and insect
life, interfering with the production of fish and (b) permission,
notwithstanding any other provisions of this chapter to the contrary, to
release, stock and propagate fish in the licensed pond. The department
may specify in the license methods of control to be used and the manner
of taking and type, size and mesh of gear to be used in taking fish. The
department may, for cause, revoke or suspend any license issued pursuant
to this section."
***********
Without a permit like this, the owner has to abide by everyday regs. You
couldn't keep largemouth under a foot, if you cull a legal fish, it
counts
toward your limit of five, and "wanton waste" might apply if you leave it
on the ground--depends on if you **** off the conservation officer.

Also, note that the size limit of such a pond is 10 acres, pretty small.
If bigger, an owner needs to apply for a "fishing preserve" permit, which
costs money and is more heavily regulated.


I don't know what procedure, if any, you need to go through to kill off
the fish and drain the pond. I would venture a guess that you should
have your management license modified to reflect the kill off before you
drain the pond. If it were my pond, that's how I would do it.

Scott

[Scott Seidman]

Rodney .> wrote in news:10hksu1lfqh7g64
@corp.supernews.com:

> So Crig,, you were believing an Urban myth about private ponds, you
> evidently over heard someone saying this,, nothing wrong with being
> wrong, if you admit it :-)

Well, here's the law in NY
*********
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcode.pl?frame=right2
&code=NY&ls=claws&law=37&art=33

" 2. The department may issue to the owner or lessee of a farm fish pond
a license, effective for a period of five years, entitling the holder to
manage such fish pond for the production of fish. The department shall
fix the terms of each such license and may include therein (a)
permission to control undesirable fish, aquatic vegetation and insect
life, interfering with the production of fish and (b) permission,
notwithstanding any other provisions of this chapter to the contrary, to
release, stock and propagate fish in the licensed pond. The department
may specify in the license methods of control to be used and the manner
of taking and type, size and mesh of gear to be used in taking fish. The
department may, for cause, revoke or suspend any license issued pursuant
to this section."
***********
Without a permit like this, the owner has to abide by everyday regs. You
couldn't keep largemouth under a foot, if you cull a legal fish, it
counts
toward your limit of five, and "wanton waste" might apply if you leave it
on the ground--depends on if you **** off the conservation officer.

Also, note that the size limit of such a pond is 10 acres, pretty small.
If bigger, an owner needs to apply for a "fishing preserve" permit, which
costs money and is more heavily regulated.


I don't know what procedure, if any, you need to go through to kill off
the fish and drain the pond. I would venture a guess that you should
have your management license modified to reflect the kill off before you
drain the pond. If it were my pond, that's how I would do it.

Scott

[Calif Bill]

Depends on the state. Licensed bird clubs here (Calif.) can shoot about 9
months a year. They also have to release some amount more of the birds than
they shoot.
Bill

"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
> That's not exactly true. Look at what pheasant farms do for dog training.
> You can hunt pheasant on those farms all year long. Deer can be hunted
the
> same way with a fence if you bought and paid for the deer assuming no deer
> were in place to begin with. It is possible that these laws very from
state
> to state. I am pretty certain that in Ohio, if the pond does not drain
into
> public waters, you can do whatever you want.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> "Charles B. Summers" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting. So if I own
500
> > acres... can I legally harvest deer from there 365 days a year? Nope!
> >
> >
> > "Craig" > wrote in message
> > news:ACWRc.100687$8_6.30108@attbi_s04...
> > > In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water
> > enters
> > > that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> > > wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can
stock
> > it
> > > how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit
> laws
> > > can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission -
> > under
> > > the laws that govern wetlands.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Craig Baugher
> > > Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Calif Bill]

Depends on the state. Licensed bird clubs here (Calif.) can shoot about 9
months a year. They also have to release some amount more of the birds than
they shoot.
Bill

"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
> That's not exactly true. Look at what pheasant farms do for dog training.
> You can hunt pheasant on those farms all year long. Deer can be hunted
the
> same way with a fence if you bought and paid for the deer assuming no deer
> were in place to begin with. It is possible that these laws very from
state
> to state. I am pretty certain that in Ohio, if the pond does not drain
into
> public waters, you can do whatever you want.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> "Charles B. Summers" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting. So if I own
500
> > acres... can I legally harvest deer from there 365 days a year? Nope!
> >
> >
> > "Craig" > wrote in message
> > news:ACWRc.100687$8_6.30108@attbi_s04...
> > > In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water
> > enters
> > > that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> > > wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can
stock
> > it
> > > how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit
> laws
> > > can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission -
> > under
> > > the laws that govern wetlands.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Craig Baugher
> > > Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Calif Bill]

Depends on the state. Licensed bird clubs here (Calif.) can shoot about 9
months a year. They also have to release some amount more of the birds than
they shoot.
Bill

"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
> That's not exactly true. Look at what pheasant farms do for dog training.
> You can hunt pheasant on those farms all year long. Deer can be hunted
the
> same way with a fence if you bought and paid for the deer assuming no deer
> were in place to begin with. It is possible that these laws very from
state
> to state. I am pretty certain that in Ohio, if the pond does not drain
into
> public waters, you can do whatever you want.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> "Charles B. Summers" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > I believe the same thing applies to farmlands and hunting. So if I own
500
> > acres... can I legally harvest deer from there 365 days a year? Nope!
> >
> >
> > "Craig" > wrote in message
> > news:ACWRc.100687$8_6.30108@attbi_s04...
> > > In Michigan, my pond or my lake means I own the hole, but once water
> > enters
> > > that hole, the state of Michigan has regulation over the water and the
> > > wildlife that is in it or on it. I can maintain it (meaning I can
stock
> > it
> > > how I please), but if the state HAS any knowledge of that pond, limit
> laws
> > > can be enforced and it can never be drained without DEQ's permission -
> > under
> > > the laws that govern wetlands.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Craig Baugher
> > > Be Confident, Focused, but most of all Have FUN!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Calif Bill]

"Rodney" .> wrote in message
...
> Calif Bill wrote:
>
> > Yes. Do not make any animal suffer for long periods of time when it is
> > avoidable.
> > Bill
>
> Now Bill many people (not those on this list nor me) you hooking the
> fish in the first place does this.
>
> Get my point :-)
>
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
>

You are right about certain people, but there is a hell of a lot of
difference between catching a fish and bonking it on the head, and putting
it in the cooler or to the dog, than throwing a live fish to the same dog.
Something about being a caring person. As to GWB. He is a lousy president.
Unfortunately, Kerry is also a piece of crap as to presidential material.
We, as a country, are screwed either way.
Bill

[Rodney]

Calif Bill wrote:
> "Rodney" .> wrote in message

>
> You are right about certain people,


> He is a lousy president.
> Unfortunately, Kerry is also a piece of crap as to presidential material.
> We, as a country, are screwed either way.
> Bill

I will not argue that point, Bush could be better, no doubt about it.

WE as a country, have had to vote for the least of two evils for many,
many, years,, too bad the least has not always won
>
>

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Calif Bill wrote:
> "Rodney" .> wrote in message

>
> You are right about certain people,


> He is a lousy president.
> Unfortunately, Kerry is also a piece of crap as to presidential material.
> We, as a country, are screwed either way.
> Bill

I will not argue that point, Bush could be better, no doubt about it.

WE as a country, have had to vote for the least of two evils for many,
many, years,, too bad the least has not always won
>
>

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Calif Bill wrote:
> "Rodney" .> wrote in message

>
> You are right about certain people,


> He is a lousy president.
> Unfortunately, Kerry is also a piece of crap as to presidential material.
> We, as a country, are screwed either way.
> Bill

I will not argue that point, Bush could be better, no doubt about it.

WE as a country, have had to vote for the least of two evils for many,
many, years,, too bad the least has not always won
>
>

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[IBNFSHN]

Well, looks like another good group gone to hell with political bull****!
Anyone know of any good moderated forums?
--
Bill
Chesapeake, Va


"Rodney" .> wrote in message
...
> Calif Bill wrote:
> > "Rodney" .> wrote in message
>
> >
> > You are right about certain people,
>
>
> > He is a lousy president.
> > Unfortunately, Kerry is also a piece of crap as to presidential
material.
> > We, as a country, are screwed either way.
> > Bill
>
> I will not argue that point, Bush could be better, no doubt about it.
>
> WE as a country, have had to vote for the least of two evils for many,
> many, years,, too bad the least has not always won
> >
> >
>
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
>

[IBNFSHN]

Well, looks like another good group gone to hell with political bull****!
Anyone know of any good moderated forums?
--
Bill
Chesapeake, Va


"Rodney" .> wrote in message
...
> Calif Bill wrote:
> > "Rodney" .> wrote in message
>
> >
> > You are right about certain people,
>
>
> > He is a lousy president.
> > Unfortunately, Kerry is also a piece of crap as to presidential
material.
> > We, as a country, are screwed either way.
> > Bill
>
> I will not argue that point, Bush could be better, no doubt about it.
>
> WE as a country, have had to vote for the least of two evils for many,
> many, years,, too bad the least has not always won
> >
> >
>
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
>

[Calif Bill]

Lots out there. I noticed you did not just ignor the thread and added to it
also.

"IBNFSHN" > wrote in message
news:ZpzSc.27469$Jo1.26409@lakeread01...
> Well, looks like another good group gone to hell with political bull****!
> Anyone know of any good moderated forums?
> --
> Bill
> Chesapeake, Va
>
>
> "Rodney" .> wrote in message
> ...
> > Calif Bill wrote:
> > > "Rodney" .> wrote in message
> >
> > >
> > > You are right about certain people,
> >
> >
> > > He is a lousy president.
> > > Unfortunately, Kerry is also a piece of crap as to presidential
> material.
> > > We, as a country, are screwed either way.
> > > Bill
> >
> > I will not argue that point, Bush could be better, no doubt about it.
> >
> > WE as a country, have had to vote for the least of two evils for many,
> > many, years,, too bad the least has not always won
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Rodney Long,
> > Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> > Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> > Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> > and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
> >
>
>

[Calif Bill]

Lots out there. I noticed you did not just ignor the thread and added to it
also.

"IBNFSHN" > wrote in message
news:ZpzSc.27469$Jo1.26409@lakeread01...
> Well, looks like another good group gone to hell with political bull****!
> Anyone know of any good moderated forums?
> --
> Bill
> Chesapeake, Va
>
>
> "Rodney" .> wrote in message
> ...
> > Calif Bill wrote:
> > > "Rodney" .> wrote in message
> >
> > >
> > > You are right about certain people,
> >
> >
> > > He is a lousy president.
> > > Unfortunately, Kerry is also a piece of crap as to presidential
> material.
> > > We, as a country, are screwed either way.
> > > Bill
> >
> > I will not argue that point, Bush could be better, no doubt about it.
> >
> > WE as a country, have had to vote for the least of two evils for many,
> > many, years,, too bad the least has not always won
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Rodney Long,
> > Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
> > Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
> > Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
> > and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
> >
>
>

[RGarri7470]

>Well, here's the law in NY

You left out section 4 - 4. A licensee, any member of his immediate
family, and any person
actually employed by him in the cultivation of his farm or the
management of the licensed pond may without license issued under title 7
of the Fish and Wildlife Law, take fish of any size, in any number, at
any time, in any manner permitted by the department.

Looks like this is for fish farming - raising fish to sell.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[RGarri7470]

>Well, here's the law in NY

You left out section 4 - 4. A licensee, any member of his immediate
family, and any person
actually employed by him in the cultivation of his farm or the
management of the licensed pond may without license issued under title 7
of the Fish and Wildlife Law, take fish of any size, in any number, at
any time, in any manner permitted by the department.

Looks like this is for fish farming - raising fish to sell.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[Calif Bill]

How do they handle pay to fish ponds, that are stocked with paid for
hatchery fish?

"RGarri7470" > wrote in message
...
> >Well, here's the law in NY
>
> You left out section 4 - 4. A licensee, any member of his immediate
> family, and any person
> actually employed by him in the cultivation of his farm or the
> management of the licensed pond may without license issued under title 7
> of the Fish and Wildlife Law, take fish of any size, in any number, at
> any time, in any manner permitted by the department.
>
> Looks like this is for fish farming - raising fish to sell.
> Ronnie
>
> http://fishing.about.com

[Calif Bill]

How do they handle pay to fish ponds, that are stocked with paid for
hatchery fish?

"RGarri7470" > wrote in message
...
> >Well, here's the law in NY
>
> You left out section 4 - 4. A licensee, any member of his immediate
> family, and any person
> actually employed by him in the cultivation of his farm or the
> management of the licensed pond may without license issued under title 7
> of the Fish and Wildlife Law, take fish of any size, in any number, at
> any time, in any manner permitted by the department.
>
> Looks like this is for fish farming - raising fish to sell.
> Ronnie
>
> http://fishing.about.com

[Joe Haubenreich]

I advocate "throwing away" bass when the situation merits it. For example,
in one tournament on Bear Creek Lake in Arkansas, the Game & Fish Commission
officer asked us to throw all bass under the legal limit high on the bank
where they could not flop back into the lake. We understood the rationale
behind his request and I was happy to comply. We might catch 50 bass each in
the course of a day, and 48 of them would be twelve inches or under. We
noticed a marked decrease in catch rate but an improvement in quality in the
years following that policy. I'm pretty sure the game laws were not
officially suspended for that lake, but we who fished it regularly figured
the officer knew his business.

The guiding principle is not, as was suggested earlier, that "no fish should
go to spoil;" rather, compliance with regulations, wise and informed
stewardship of natural resources, and respect for the rights and opinions of
others.

Joe
______________________
"go-bassn" > wrote in message
...
I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate you
"throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions

[Joe Haubenreich]

I advocate "throwing away" bass when the situation merits it. For example,
in one tournament on Bear Creek Lake in Arkansas, the Game & Fish Commission
officer asked us to throw all bass under the legal limit high on the bank
where they could not flop back into the lake. We understood the rationale
behind his request and I was happy to comply. We might catch 50 bass each in
the course of a day, and 48 of them would be twelve inches or under. We
noticed a marked decrease in catch rate but an improvement in quality in the
years following that policy. I'm pretty sure the game laws were not
officially suspended for that lake, but we who fished it regularly figured
the officer knew his business.

The guiding principle is not, as was suggested earlier, that "no fish should
go to spoil;" rather, compliance with regulations, wise and informed
stewardship of natural resources, and respect for the rights and opinions of
others.

Joe
______________________
"go-bassn" > wrote in message
...
I don't think you're going to find anyone here that's going to advocate you
"throwing away" a bass regardless of the circumstances.

Warren
--
http://www.warrenwolk.com/
http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com
2004 NJ B.A.S.S. Federation State Champions

[Scott Seidman]

(RGarri7470) wrote in
:

>>Well, here's the law in NY
>
> You left out section 4 - 4. A licensee, any member of his
> immediate family, and any person
> actually employed by him in the cultivation of his farm or
> the management of the licensed pond may without license issued under
> title 7 of the Fish and Wildlife Law, take fish of any size, in any
> number, at any time, in any manner permitted by the department.
>
> Looks like this is for fish farming - raising fish to sell.
> Ronnie
>
> http://fishing.about.com
>

I also left out section 1, which defines Farm Fish Pond:

1. "Farm fish pond" means a body of water, impounded by a dam, of not
more than ten acres of water surface when full, lying wholly within the
boundaries of privately owned or leased lands. It does not include any
pond used in connection with any private camp, boarding house, hotel or
other establishment catering to the public.


It has nothing to do with purpose, and I suspect 10 acres isn't bit enough
to make a fish farm (as opposed to a farm pond) a real business.

And yes, the big point was that in NY you can pretty much do what you want
to the pond and its fish, so long as you've licensed the pond. Without
such a license, though, you're subject to every fishing regulation that
exists in the state.

Scott

[Scott Seidman]

(RGarri7470) wrote in
:

>>Well, here's the law in NY
>
> You left out section 4 - 4. A licensee, any member of his
> immediate family, and any person
> actually employed by him in the cultivation of his farm or
> the management of the licensed pond may without license issued under
> title 7 of the Fish and Wildlife Law, take fish of any size, in any
> number, at any time, in any manner permitted by the department.
>
> Looks like this is for fish farming - raising fish to sell.
> Ronnie
>
> http://fishing.about.com
>

I also left out section 1, which defines Farm Fish Pond:

1. "Farm fish pond" means a body of water, impounded by a dam, of not
more than ten acres of water surface when full, lying wholly within the
boundaries of privately owned or leased lands. It does not include any
pond used in connection with any private camp, boarding house, hotel or
other establishment catering to the public.


It has nothing to do with purpose, and I suspect 10 acres isn't bit enough
to make a fish farm (as opposed to a farm pond) a real business.

And yes, the big point was that in NY you can pretty much do what you want
to the pond and its fish, so long as you've licensed the pond. Without
such a license, though, you're subject to every fishing regulation that
exists in the state.

Scott

[Rodney]

IBNFSHN wrote:

> Well, looks like another good group gone to hell with political bull****!
> Anyone know of any good moderated forums?

You know ? Hunting and fishing are controlled by the politics

WE need to talk about it some, if we don't we will continue to loose
more, and more of our rights

I think we should all vote for those who not only give it lip service,
like Kerry did with the first P.R. bird hunting he has done in over 20
years, trying to say he is all for it, then he tried to explain how he
deer hunted with his shotgun,, telling those of us who hunt he didn't
have a clue about it, so he never has done it.

Like when he all of a sudden got religion, (yet he claimed he was very
religious, and had been that way for ever) (first time his minister had
seen him in church in over 20 years) because the polls told him he
needed it.

I'm sorry, but that kind of garbage, is not what we as sportsmen need in
office,, if he gets elected, plan on seeing us loosing more rights

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Lure builder]

>The guiding principle is not, as was suggested earlier, that "no fish should
>go to spoil;" rather, compliance with regulations, wise and informed
>stewardship of natural resources, and respect for the rights and opinions of
>others.
>
>Joe


I wanted to harvest some skein from a salmon (ot) which is perfectly legal. I
put it to the CO that it would not be appropriate to leave the gutted fish at
the lake and he agreed and said "no don't do that" (double negative... lol). I
then said i guess it should be taken home and put out with the garbage. He said
"ugggmmm take it home and bury it in your garden". His further comment was "out
of sight out of mind".
What i got from this was that generally you don't want to give the appearance
of a fish going to spoil to a casual observer.
I agree first there is the legal consideration. Second our sport is under
attack and you don't want to give the wingnuts anything to fuel their
opposition.

[Lure builder]

>The guiding principle is not, as was suggested earlier, that "no fish should
>go to spoil;" rather, compliance with regulations, wise and informed
>stewardship of natural resources, and respect for the rights and opinions of
>others.
>
>Joe


I wanted to harvest some skein from a salmon (ot) which is perfectly legal. I
put it to the CO that it would not be appropriate to leave the gutted fish at
the lake and he agreed and said "no don't do that" (double negative... lol). I
then said i guess it should be taken home and put out with the garbage. He said
"ugggmmm take it home and bury it in your garden". His further comment was "out
of sight out of mind".
What i got from this was that generally you don't want to give the appearance
of a fish going to spoil to a casual observer.
I agree first there is the legal consideration. Second our sport is under
attack and you don't want to give the wingnuts anything to fuel their
opposition.

[Henry Hefner]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>
> If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
> on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
> for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."
>
> http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/
>

I watched it today, and you have misrepresented what happened. President
Bush did say that the first dink went to the dog to play with, and he
also stated later on that the dog doesn't bite them, but just licks
them. Yes, when he put the fish on the deck it appeared in the couple of
seconds that the camera was on him, that the dog was very enthusiastic
about getting to the fish, but it was never shown or said that the dog
chews them to death. I don't know how you got out of my killfile, but
your a-fixin' to go back.

[Henry Hefner]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>
> If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
> on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
> for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."
>
> http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/
>

I watched it today, and you have misrepresented what happened. President
Bush did say that the first dink went to the dog to play with, and he
also stated later on that the dog doesn't bite them, but just licks
them. Yes, when he put the fish on the deck it appeared in the couple of
seconds that the camera was on him, that the dog was very enthusiastic
about getting to the fish, but it was never shown or said that the dog
chews them to death. I don't know how you got out of my killfile, but
your a-fixin' to go back.

[Henry Hefner]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>
> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>
> If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
> on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
> for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."
>
> http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/
>

I watched it today, and you have misrepresented what happened. President
Bush did say that the first dink went to the dog to play with, and he
also stated later on that the dog doesn't bite them, but just licks
them. Yes, when he put the fish on the deck it appeared in the couple of
seconds that the camera was on him, that the dog was very enthusiastic
about getting to the fish, but it was never shown or said that the dog
chews them to death. I don't know how you got out of my killfile, but
your a-fixin' to go back.

[Ken Fortenberry]

Henry Hefner wrote:
>
> I watched it today, and you have misrepresented what happened. President
> Bush did say that the first dink went to the dog to play with, ...

You know it's time for a serious change when the president of the United States
actually mutters the infantile, instantly infamous line, "Our enemies are
innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new
ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we," just after
finishing phonetically spelling out his name, in his favoritest red crayon, on
yet another budget-reaming $417 billion defense-spending bill.

And you know it's time for a change when not a single one of the rigid and
spiritually curdled military yes men standing around the ceremonial signing
table, those sad automatons with their wooden smiles and stiff spines and
bone-dry souls, not one broke into a hysterical bout of sad, suicidal laughter,
followed by uncontrolled wailing and the rending of flesh and the muttering of
oh my freaking God what the hell is this man doing as leader of the free world.

You know it's time for a change when you hear that Kerry and Edwards both wrote
their own riveting, galvanizing acceptance speeches at the Democratic National
Convention, heartfelt and effective rhetoric that gives you hope not for the
quality of polished oratory but for genuine, refreshing political intellect, and
verbal acumen, as you offer deep thanks that at least some politicians can still
speak coherently and cogently without mangling the goddamn language at every
adjectival clause.

Whereas you just know Dubya isn't capable of writing a single word of his own
speeches, and will employ entire squadrons of lackeys to do it for him at the
RNC, and will regardless still insist on mispronouncing "nukuler" and "'Murka"
and "terrist" and "gin bender at Yale," and will doubtlessly say something like,
"We must stamp out evil in all its forms because evil wants to do evil things to
us and evil don't know the depths of its own, uh, evilnesses. Praise Jesus."

There are signs and indicators. There are feelings and intuitions. There is that
undeniable tang in the air, that clenching of the cultural colon, that cringe in
the collective soul. Something has got to give. A national shakeup is more than
imminent -- it is desperately, urgently needed. And Bush is just about finished.

Don't you feel it? The sensation that the country cannot continue to careen down
this ultraviolent, antihumanitarian path much longer without implosion and
desperation and a massive increase in sedative prescriptions for anyone with an
even slightly intuitive sense of justice and future and long hot sighs of hope?
You're not alone.

You know it's time for a dramatic change when American bookstores and movie
theaters are filled with unprecedented numbers of extraordinarily damning BushCo
exposés and embarrassing tell-all tomes and brutal whistle-blower digests from
all corners of the culture, produced by everyone from disheartened CIA insiders
to ex-generals to respected reporters to former U.S. allies.

From Clarke's "Against All Enemies," Woodward's "Plan of Attack," Suskind's
"The Price of Loyalty," Phillips' "American Dynasty," Dean's "Worse Than
Watergate," Unger's "House of Bush, House of Saud" and "Imperial Hubris," by
'Anonymous,' to "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Outfoxed" and "The Hunting of the
President." Go ahead, Google any one (or all) of those titles. The list is
endless and stunning in its depth and in the heat of its unanimous BushCo
condemnation.

Hell, it's getting so you can't turn a corner or have a nuanced, humane thought
without confronting another hunk of undeniable proof that what these media
documents say is true: The Bush administration is quite possibly the most
economically destructive, environmentally devastating, ethically corrupt,
internationally loathed, deliberately tyrannical, worst-dressed administration
in American history.

What, too harsh? Hardly.

When the professors and other intellectuals and the artists and the social
workers and the mystics and the truly spiritual among us are appalled and
mournful, and the homophobes and the rednecks and the religious zealots are
cheering and shooting their guns in the sky, this is how you know.

When America has become a global punch line, a petulant and screeching child in
an oversize Texas cowboy hat throwing oily little tantrums on a WMD whim, and
the global community can only sit there, stunned and enraged, as every ally
withdraws all offers of support and overtures of concern for our well-being,
this is how you know.

The activists know it. Angry groups are popping up by the hundreds across the
nation, all working diligently to toss a nice emetic into the Republican
gorge-fest. Some are even going so far as to offer up the ultimate sacrifice:
They will have sex with any Republicans willing to withhold their Bush vote this
election.

It's true. It's funny. It's called

http://www.fthevote.com

What, too extreme? Hey, extreme times call for extreme lubrication.

The watchdogs know it. The usual reaction from most analysts and wonks, most
intellectuals and artists, when faced with another presidential election, is
this: Yawn. After all, such ultra-elitist, top-tier shifts have little effect on
the massive daily political grind, the real meat and potatoes of government,
right? This is the common wisdom. A change in presidents is like changing the
paint on an aircraft carrier: different patina, same damn boat.

Not this time. All those who normally claim that a change in who sits in the
Oval Office means nothing are now all frantically waving their arms and shouting
their protests and joining the resistance. This election is different. This one
matters like never before in history, considering how so many of us
underestimated just how much damage a single president's gnarled, hateful
administration could unleash upon the world in a single term.

This is the new rallying cry. If you care at all about the soul of this country,
if you care at all about women's rights and gay rights and true spiritual
freedom and the environment and our international standing, if you care at all
about actually reducing the anti-U.S. hatred in the world, as opposed to
amplifying it a thousandfold, then oh my god yes, this election matters.

This, then, is how you know it's time for a serious change. When you can feel it
in your bones, when you finally attune and really listen to the underlying
messages and dig deep into your own spirit and discover that no, this isn't the
way the world is supposed to work. This is not the way the country has to be.

This is not the way the world's greatest superpower is supposed to behave, this
bitter metallic taste that leaps into my mouth whenever I see a picture of
BushCo isn't really supposed to be there, the vice president isn't supposed to
make children cry and flowers wilt and the gods recoil in disgust.

And the president isn't supposed to mangle the language and induce multiple wars
and invite international derision and make so many millions of us ashamed to be
Americans. It's time for a serious change. This is how you know.
-Mark Morford

[Ken Fortenberry]

Henry Hefner wrote:
>
> I watched it today, and you have misrepresented what happened. President
> Bush did say that the first dink went to the dog to play with, ...

You know it's time for a serious change when the president of the United States
actually mutters the infantile, instantly infamous line, "Our enemies are
innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new
ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we," just after
finishing phonetically spelling out his name, in his favoritest red crayon, on
yet another budget-reaming $417 billion defense-spending bill.

And you know it's time for a change when not a single one of the rigid and
spiritually curdled military yes men standing around the ceremonial signing
table, those sad automatons with their wooden smiles and stiff spines and
bone-dry souls, not one broke into a hysterical bout of sad, suicidal laughter,
followed by uncontrolled wailing and the rending of flesh and the muttering of
oh my freaking God what the hell is this man doing as leader of the free world.

You know it's time for a change when you hear that Kerry and Edwards both wrote
their own riveting, galvanizing acceptance speeches at the Democratic National
Convention, heartfelt and effective rhetoric that gives you hope not for the
quality of polished oratory but for genuine, refreshing political intellect, and
verbal acumen, as you offer deep thanks that at least some politicians can still
speak coherently and cogently without mangling the goddamn language at every
adjectival clause.

Whereas you just know Dubya isn't capable of writing a single word of his own
speeches, and will employ entire squadrons of lackeys to do it for him at the
RNC, and will regardless still insist on mispronouncing "nukuler" and "'Murka"
and "terrist" and "gin bender at Yale," and will doubtlessly say something like,
"We must stamp out evil in all its forms because evil wants to do evil things to
us and evil don't know the depths of its own, uh, evilnesses. Praise Jesus."

There are signs and indicators. There are feelings and intuitions. There is that
undeniable tang in the air, that clenching of the cultural colon, that cringe in
the collective soul. Something has got to give. A national shakeup is more than
imminent -- it is desperately, urgently needed. And Bush is just about finished.

Don't you feel it? The sensation that the country cannot continue to careen down
this ultraviolent, antihumanitarian path much longer without implosion and
desperation and a massive increase in sedative prescriptions for anyone with an
even slightly intuitive sense of justice and future and long hot sighs of hope?
You're not alone.

You know it's time for a dramatic change when American bookstores and movie
theaters are filled with unprecedented numbers of extraordinarily damning BushCo
exposés and embarrassing tell-all tomes and brutal whistle-blower digests from
all corners of the culture, produced by everyone from disheartened CIA insiders
to ex-generals to respected reporters to former U.S. allies.

From Clarke's "Against All Enemies," Woodward's "Plan of Attack," Suskind's
"The Price of Loyalty," Phillips' "American Dynasty," Dean's "Worse Than
Watergate," Unger's "House of Bush, House of Saud" and "Imperial Hubris," by
'Anonymous,' to "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Outfoxed" and "The Hunting of the
President." Go ahead, Google any one (or all) of those titles. The list is
endless and stunning in its depth and in the heat of its unanimous BushCo
condemnation.

Hell, it's getting so you can't turn a corner or have a nuanced, humane thought
without confronting another hunk of undeniable proof that what these media
documents say is true: The Bush administration is quite possibly the most
economically destructive, environmentally devastating, ethically corrupt,
internationally loathed, deliberately tyrannical, worst-dressed administration
in American history.

What, too harsh? Hardly.

When the professors and other intellectuals and the artists and the social
workers and the mystics and the truly spiritual among us are appalled and
mournful, and the homophobes and the rednecks and the religious zealots are
cheering and shooting their guns in the sky, this is how you know.

When America has become a global punch line, a petulant and screeching child in
an oversize Texas cowboy hat throwing oily little tantrums on a WMD whim, and
the global community can only sit there, stunned and enraged, as every ally
withdraws all offers of support and overtures of concern for our well-being,
this is how you know.

The activists know it. Angry groups are popping up by the hundreds across the
nation, all working diligently to toss a nice emetic into the Republican
gorge-fest. Some are even going so far as to offer up the ultimate sacrifice:
They will have sex with any Republicans willing to withhold their Bush vote this
election.

It's true. It's funny. It's called

http://www.fthevote.com

What, too extreme? Hey, extreme times call for extreme lubrication.

The watchdogs know it. The usual reaction from most analysts and wonks, most
intellectuals and artists, when faced with another presidential election, is
this: Yawn. After all, such ultra-elitist, top-tier shifts have little effect on
the massive daily political grind, the real meat and potatoes of government,
right? This is the common wisdom. A change in presidents is like changing the
paint on an aircraft carrier: different patina, same damn boat.

Not this time. All those who normally claim that a change in who sits in the
Oval Office means nothing are now all frantically waving their arms and shouting
their protests and joining the resistance. This election is different. This one
matters like never before in history, considering how so many of us
underestimated just how much damage a single president's gnarled, hateful
administration could unleash upon the world in a single term.

This is the new rallying cry. If you care at all about the soul of this country,
if you care at all about women's rights and gay rights and true spiritual
freedom and the environment and our international standing, if you care at all
about actually reducing the anti-U.S. hatred in the world, as opposed to
amplifying it a thousandfold, then oh my god yes, this election matters.

This, then, is how you know it's time for a serious change. When you can feel it
in your bones, when you finally attune and really listen to the underlying
messages and dig deep into your own spirit and discover that no, this isn't the
way the world is supposed to work. This is not the way the country has to be.

This is not the way the world's greatest superpower is supposed to behave, this
bitter metallic taste that leaps into my mouth whenever I see a picture of
BushCo isn't really supposed to be there, the vice president isn't supposed to
make children cry and flowers wilt and the gods recoil in disgust.

And the president isn't supposed to mangle the language and induce multiple wars
and invite international derision and make so many millions of us ashamed to be
Americans. It's time for a serious change. This is how you know.
-Mark Morford

[Ken Fortenberry]

Eric Dreher wrote:
> Rodney .> wrote:
>>I'm sorry, but that kind of garbage, is not what we as sportsmen need in
>>office,, if he [Kerry] gets elected, plan on seeing us losing
>>more rights.
>
>
> Bingo. ...

Day in the Life of Joe, Middle-Class Republican

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of
good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality
standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His
medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety
and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan
because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical
insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and
eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for
laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly
labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some
liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how
much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air
he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop
industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his
government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking
and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public
transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals
benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union
members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays
these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call
the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker
compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he
should loose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills.
Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted
to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking
system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market
federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the
government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over
his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm
home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dad's; his car is
among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety
standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live
in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t
want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big
government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural
electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the
dark)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security
and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of
himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his
car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad
and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans
have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day)
Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives;
after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of
themselves, just like I have”.

By John Gray Cincinnati, Ohio

[Ken Fortenberry]

Eric Dreher wrote:
> Rodney .> wrote:
>>I'm sorry, but that kind of garbage, is not what we as sportsmen need in
>>office,, if he [Kerry] gets elected, plan on seeing us losing
>>more rights.
>
>
> Bingo. ...

Day in the Life of Joe, Middle-Class Republican

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of
good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality
standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His
medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety
and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan
because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical
insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and
eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for
laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly
labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some
liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how
much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air
he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop
industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his
government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking
and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public
transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals
benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union
members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays
these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call
the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker
compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he
should loose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills.
Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted
to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking
system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market
federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the
government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over
his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm
home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dad's; his car is
among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety
standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live
in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t
want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big
government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural
electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the
dark)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security
and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of
himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his
car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad
and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans
have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day)
Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives;
after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of
themselves, just like I have”.

By John Gray Cincinnati, Ohio

[Ken Fortenberry]

Eric Dreher wrote:
> Rodney .> wrote:
>>I'm sorry, but that kind of garbage, is not what we as sportsmen need in
>>office,, if he [Kerry] gets elected, plan on seeing us losing
>>more rights.
>
>
> Bingo. ...

Day in the Life of Joe, Middle-Class Republican

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of
good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality
standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His
medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety
and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan
because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical
insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and
eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for
laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly
labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some
liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how
much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air
he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop
industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his
government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking
and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public
transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals
benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union
members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays
these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call
the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker
compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he
should loose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills.
Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted
to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking
system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market
federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the
government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over
his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm
home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dad's; his car is
among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety
standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live
in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t
want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big
government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural
electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the
dark)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security
and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of
himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his
car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad
and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans
have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day)
Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives;
after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of
themselves, just like I have”.

By John Gray Cincinnati, Ohio

[Rodney]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

> Henry Hefner wrote:

>
> You know it's time for a change when you hear that Kerry and Edwards
> both wrote their own riveting, galvanizing acceptance speeches at the
> Democratic National Convention, heartfelt and effective rhetoric that
> gives you hope not for the quality of polished oratory but for genuine,
> refreshing political intellect, and verbal acumen, as you offer deep
> thanks that at least some politicians can still speak coherently and
> cogently without mangling the goddamn language at every adjectival clause.


Words are cheap,, actions speak, and Kerry's actions to date, is not
where I , or anyone who has any brains, wants this country to go.

Your saying let's vote for the one that can "lie" with the best words.
ROTFLMAO

Man Use your brains, look at actions, not words, as these guys will say
ANYTHING to get elected, Do you even know Kerry's voting record ?

Hell No !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF THE DEMOCRATS HAD A DECENT CANDIDATE, I might even vote for him,, but
is this is the best ya'll can do, you need to start all over again.

THIS GUY IS 100% FOR MORE GOVERNMENT, MORE LAWS, MORE TAXES, killing the
unborn, gun control, and nationalized health care,

He is a WIMP, he got out of his combat service when he got a couple of
scratches, then to add insult to injury he actively protested the
government, and the military during a time of war.

Every enemy of the US wants him elected

With Bush you know what your getting,, no he's not a slick talking
politician, but you get someone who believes in this country, and takes
action to protect it,, Must be working, as nothing has happened since
9/11, and he even bass fishes when the cameras are not on him.

You want to keep your ability/rights to fish,, don't vote for Kerry.

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

> Henry Hefner wrote:

>
> You know it's time for a change when you hear that Kerry and Edwards
> both wrote their own riveting, galvanizing acceptance speeches at the
> Democratic National Convention, heartfelt and effective rhetoric that
> gives you hope not for the quality of polished oratory but for genuine,
> refreshing political intellect, and verbal acumen, as you offer deep
> thanks that at least some politicians can still speak coherently and
> cogently without mangling the goddamn language at every adjectival clause.


Words are cheap,, actions speak, and Kerry's actions to date, is not
where I , or anyone who has any brains, wants this country to go.

Your saying let's vote for the one that can "lie" with the best words.
ROTFLMAO

Man Use your brains, look at actions, not words, as these guys will say
ANYTHING to get elected, Do you even know Kerry's voting record ?

Hell No !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF THE DEMOCRATS HAD A DECENT CANDIDATE, I might even vote for him,, but
is this is the best ya'll can do, you need to start all over again.

THIS GUY IS 100% FOR MORE GOVERNMENT, MORE LAWS, MORE TAXES, killing the
unborn, gun control, and nationalized health care,

He is a WIMP, he got out of his combat service when he got a couple of
scratches, then to add insult to injury he actively protested the
government, and the military during a time of war.

Every enemy of the US wants him elected

With Bush you know what your getting,, no he's not a slick talking
politician, but you get someone who believes in this country, and takes
action to protect it,, Must be working, as nothing has happened since
9/11, and he even bass fishes when the cameras are not on him.

You want to keep your ability/rights to fish,, don't vote for Kerry.

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Rodney]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

> Eric Dreher wrote:
>
>> Rodney .> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sorry, but that kind of garbage, is not what we as sportsmen need
>>> in office,, if he [Kerry] gets elected, plan on seeing us losing
>>> more rights.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bingo. ...
>
>
> Day in the Life of Joe, Middle-Class Republican
>
> Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot
> full of
> good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water
> quality
> standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of
> coffee. His
> medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their
> safety
> and work as advertised.


ROTFLMAO

YEp that's a liberal,, they take credit for everything !!!!!!!!!!

You don't think any republicans voted and supported any of this ??????.
or even started some of these ?

I know we would all be dead if it were not for the liberals, and the
government protecting us from ourselves, and taking 50 % of our money
and spending it for us, because they know better than we do what's good
for us

Their regulations have driven 90% of the high paying manufacturing jobs
from the shores of this country. Doubled the price of automobiles, and
made health care 20 times what it should be, and who pays for it all ?

WE do, not the government, not big business, we pay for it all, in the
prices we pay for goods and services, the taxes, and what we don't get
in our checks

Those programs that our employers "pay" for, all come from "our"
salaries, again taking "our" money, and making the decisions on how to
spend it for us

Man what a total bunch of brain washing propaganda you posted there,, I
would bet it is an official document from the democratic party.




>

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com

[Ken Fortenberry]

Rodney wrote:
> <snip>
> Man what a total bunch of brain washing propaganda you posted there,, I
> would bet it is an official document from the democratic party.

Well, unless you're making $1.2 million a year, you vote about as
smart as you bet. If you do make over $1.2 million a year you are
voting your short-term self-interest and not the long-term interests
of the United States of America. If you don't make $1.2 million a
year then bend over and grab your ankles Rodney, 'cause BushCo is
gonna ream your rectum but good, I hope you have some KY jelly.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Ken Fortenberry]

Rodney wrote:
> <snip>
> Man what a total bunch of brain washing propaganda you posted there,, I
> would bet it is an official document from the democratic party.

Well, unless you're making $1.2 million a year, you vote about as
smart as you bet. If you do make over $1.2 million a year you are
voting your short-term self-interest and not the long-term interests
of the United States of America. If you don't make $1.2 million a
year then bend over and grab your ankles Rodney, 'cause BushCo is
gonna ream your rectum but good, I hope you have some KY jelly.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Ken Fortenberry]

Rodney wrote:
> <snip>
> Man what a total bunch of brain washing propaganda you posted there,, I
> would bet it is an official document from the democratic party.

Well, unless you're making $1.2 million a year, you vote about as
smart as you bet. If you do make over $1.2 million a year you are
voting your short-term self-interest and not the long-term interests
of the United States of America. If you don't make $1.2 million a
year then bend over and grab your ankles Rodney, 'cause BushCo is
gonna ream your rectum but good, I hope you have some KY jelly.

--
Ken Fortenberry

[BassMr]

Kenneth,you wrote that I was going off the deep end................LOL.I
hear Canada calling and they are calling you home with the rest of your
ilk.PLONK!
"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
. ..
> Henry Hefner wrote:
> >
> > I watched it today, and you have misrepresented what happened. President
> > Bush did say that the first dink went to the dog to play with, ...
>
> You know it's time for a serious change when the president of the United
States
> actually mutters the infantile, instantly infamous line, "Our enemies are
> innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about
new
> ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we," just after
> finishing phonetically spelling out his name, in his favoritest red
crayon, on
> yet another budget-reaming $417 billion defense-spending bill.
>
> And you know it's time for a change when not a single one of the rigid and
> spiritually curdled military yes men standing around the ceremonial
signing
> table, those sad automatons with their wooden smiles and stiff spines and
> bone-dry souls, not one broke into a hysterical bout of sad, suicidal
laughter,
> followed by uncontrolled wailing and the rending of flesh and the
muttering of
> oh my freaking God what the hell is this man doing as leader of the free
world.
>
> You know it's time for a change when you hear that Kerry and Edwards both
wrote
> their own riveting, galvanizing acceptance speeches at the Democratic
National
> Convention, heartfelt and effective rhetoric that gives you hope not for
the
> quality of polished oratory but for genuine, refreshing political
intellect, and
> verbal acumen, as you offer deep thanks that at least some politicians can
still
> speak coherently and cogently without mangling the goddamn language at
every
> adjectival clause.
>
> Whereas you just know Dubya isn't capable of writing a single word of his
own
> speeches, and will employ entire squadrons of lackeys to do it for him at
the
> RNC, and will regardless still insist on mispronouncing "nukuler" and
"'Murka"
> and "terrist" and "gin bender at Yale," and will doubtlessly say something
like,
> "We must stamp out evil in all its forms because evil wants to do evil
things to
> us and evil don't know the depths of its own, uh, evilnesses. Praise
Jesus."
>
> There are signs and indicators. There are feelings and intuitions. There
is that
> undeniable tang in the air, that clenching of the cultural colon, that
cringe in
> the collective soul. Something has got to give. A national shakeup is more
than
> imminent -- it is desperately, urgently needed. And Bush is just about
finished.
>
> Don't you feel it? The sensation that the country cannot continue to
careen down
> this ultraviolent, antihumanitarian path much longer without implosion and
> desperation and a massive increase in sedative prescriptions for anyone
with an
> even slightly intuitive sense of justice and future and long hot sighs of
hope?
> You're not alone.
>
> You know it's time for a dramatic change when American bookstores and
movie
> theaters are filled with unprecedented numbers of extraordinarily damning
BushCo
> exposés and embarrassing tell-all tomes and brutal whistle-blower digests
from
> all corners of the culture, produced by everyone from disheartened CIA
insiders
> to ex-generals to respected reporters to former U.S. allies.
>
> From Clarke's "Against All Enemies," Woodward's "Plan of Attack,"
Suskind's
> "The Price of Loyalty," Phillips' "American Dynasty," Dean's "Worse Than
> Watergate," Unger's "House of Bush, House of Saud" and "Imperial Hubris,"
by
> 'Anonymous,' to "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Outfoxed" and "The Hunting of the
> President." Go ahead, Google any one (or all) of those titles. The list is
> endless and stunning in its depth and in the heat of its unanimous BushCo
> condemnation.
>
> Hell, it's getting so you can't turn a corner or have a nuanced, humane
thought
> without confronting another hunk of undeniable proof that what these media
> documents say is true: The Bush administration is quite possibly the most
> economically destructive, environmentally devastating, ethically corrupt,
> internationally loathed, deliberately tyrannical, worst-dressed
administration
> in American history.
>
> What, too harsh? Hardly.
>
> When the professors and other intellectuals and the artists and the social
> workers and the mystics and the truly spiritual among us are appalled and
> mournful, and the homophobes and the rednecks and the religious zealots
are
> cheering and shooting their guns in the sky, this is how you know.
>
> When America has become a global punch line, a petulant and screeching
child in
> an oversize Texas cowboy hat throwing oily little tantrums on a WMD whim,
and
> the global community can only sit there, stunned and enraged, as every
ally
> withdraws all offers of support and overtures of concern for our
well-being,
> this is how you know.
>
> The activists know it. Angry groups are popping up by the hundreds across
the
> nation, all working diligently to toss a nice emetic into the Republican
> gorge-fest. Some are even going so far as to offer up the ultimate
sacrifice:
> They will have sex with any Republicans willing to withhold their Bush
vote this
> election.
>
> It's true. It's funny. It's called
>
> http://www.fthevote.com
>
> What, too extreme? Hey, extreme times call for extreme lubrication.
>
> The watchdogs know it. The usual reaction from most analysts and wonks,
most
> intellectuals and artists, when faced with another presidential election,
is
> this: Yawn. After all, such ultra-elitist, top-tier shifts have little
effect on
> the massive daily political grind, the real meat and potatoes of
government,
> right? This is the common wisdom. A change in presidents is like changing
the
> paint on an aircraft carrier: different patina, same damn boat.
>
> Not this time. All those who normally claim that a change in who sits in
the
> Oval Office means nothing are now all frantically waving their arms and
shouting
> their protests and joining the resistance. This election is different.
This one
> matters like never before in history, considering how so many of us
> underestimated just how much damage a single president's gnarled, hateful
> administration could unleash upon the world in a single term.
>
> This is the new rallying cry. If you care at all about the soul of this
country,
> if you care at all about women's rights and gay rights and true spiritual
> freedom and the environment and our international standing, if you care at
all
> about actually reducing the anti-U.S. hatred in the world, as opposed to
> amplifying it a thousandfold, then oh my god yes, this election matters.
>
> This, then, is how you know it's time for a serious change. When you can
feel it
> in your bones, when you finally attune and really listen to the underlying
> messages and dig deep into your own spirit and discover that no, this
isn't the
> way the world is supposed to work. This is not the way the country has to
be.
>
> This is not the way the world's greatest superpower is supposed to behave,
this
> bitter metallic taste that leaps into my mouth whenever I see a picture of
> BushCo isn't really supposed to be there, the vice president isn't
supposed to
> make children cry and flowers wilt and the gods recoil in disgust.
>
> And the president isn't supposed to mangle the language and induce
multiple wars
> and invite international derision and make so many millions of us ashamed
to be
> Americans. It's time for a serious change. This is how you know.
> -Mark
Morford
>

[BassMr]

Kenneth,you wrote that I was going off the deep end................LOL.I
hear Canada calling and they are calling you home with the rest of your
ilk.PLONK!
"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
. ..
> Henry Hefner wrote:
> >
> > I watched it today, and you have misrepresented what happened. President
> > Bush did say that the first dink went to the dog to play with, ...
>
> You know it's time for a serious change when the president of the United
States
> actually mutters the infantile, instantly infamous line, "Our enemies are
> innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about
new
> ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we," just after
> finishing phonetically spelling out his name, in his favoritest red
crayon, on
> yet another budget-reaming $417 billion defense-spending bill.
>
> And you know it's time for a change when not a single one of the rigid and
> spiritually curdled military yes men standing around the ceremonial
signing
> table, those sad automatons with their wooden smiles and stiff spines and
> bone-dry souls, not one broke into a hysterical bout of sad, suicidal
laughter,
> followed by uncontrolled wailing and the rending of flesh and the
muttering of
> oh my freaking God what the hell is this man doing as leader of the free
world.
>
> You know it's time for a change when you hear that Kerry and Edwards both
wrote
> their own riveting, galvanizing acceptance speeches at the Democratic
National
> Convention, heartfelt and effective rhetoric that gives you hope not for
the
> quality of polished oratory but for genuine, refreshing political
intellect, and
> verbal acumen, as you offer deep thanks that at least some politicians can
still
> speak coherently and cogently without mangling the goddamn language at
every
> adjectival clause.
>
> Whereas you just know Dubya isn't capable of writing a single word of his
own
> speeches, and will employ entire squadrons of lackeys to do it for him at
the
> RNC, and will regardless still insist on mispronouncing "nukuler" and
"'Murka"
> and "terrist" and "gin bender at Yale," and will doubtlessly say something
like,
> "We must stamp out evil in all its forms because evil wants to do evil
things to
> us and evil don't know the depths of its own, uh, evilnesses. Praise
Jesus."
>
> There are signs and indicators. There are feelings and intuitions. There
is that
> undeniable tang in the air, that clenching of the cultural colon, that
cringe in
> the collective soul. Something has got to give. A national shakeup is more
than
> imminent -- it is desperately, urgently needed. And Bush is just about
finished.
>
> Don't you feel it? The sensation that the country cannot continue to
careen down
> this ultraviolent, antihumanitarian path much longer without implosion and
> desperation and a massive increase in sedative prescriptions for anyone
with an
> even slightly intuitive sense of justice and future and long hot sighs of
hope?
> You're not alone.
>
> You know it's time for a dramatic change when American bookstores and
movie
> theaters are filled with unprecedented numbers of extraordinarily damning
BushCo
> exposés and embarrassing tell-all tomes and brutal whistle-blower digests
from
> all corners of the culture, produced by everyone from disheartened CIA
insiders
> to ex-generals to respected reporters to former U.S. allies.
>
> From Clarke's "Against All Enemies," Woodward's "Plan of Attack,"
Suskind's
> "The Price of Loyalty," Phillips' "American Dynasty," Dean's "Worse Than
> Watergate," Unger's "House of Bush, House of Saud" and "Imperial Hubris,"
by
> 'Anonymous,' to "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Outfoxed" and "The Hunting of the
> President." Go ahead, Google any one (or all) of those titles. The list is
> endless and stunning in its depth and in the heat of its unanimous BushCo
> condemnation.
>
> Hell, it's getting so you can't turn a corner or have a nuanced, humane
thought
> without confronting another hunk of undeniable proof that what these media
> documents say is true: The Bush administration is quite possibly the most
> economically destructive, environmentally devastating, ethically corrupt,
> internationally loathed, deliberately tyrannical, worst-dressed
administration
> in American history.
>
> What, too harsh? Hardly.
>
> When the professors and other intellectuals and the artists and the social
> workers and the mystics and the truly spiritual among us are appalled and
> mournful, and the homophobes and the rednecks and the religious zealots
are
> cheering and shooting their guns in the sky, this is how you know.
>
> When America has become a global punch line, a petulant and screeching
child in
> an oversize Texas cowboy hat throwing oily little tantrums on a WMD whim,
and
> the global community can only sit there, stunned and enraged, as every
ally
> withdraws all offers of support and overtures of concern for our
well-being,
> this is how you know.
>
> The activists know it. Angry groups are popping up by the hundreds across
the
> nation, all working diligently to toss a nice emetic into the Republican
> gorge-fest. Some are even going so far as to offer up the ultimate
sacrifice:
> They will have sex with any Republicans willing to withhold their Bush
vote this
> election.
>
> It's true. It's funny. It's called
>
> http://www.fthevote.com
>
> What, too extreme? Hey, extreme times call for extreme lubrication.
>
> The watchdogs know it. The usual reaction from most analysts and wonks,
most
> intellectuals and artists, when faced with another presidential election,
is
> this: Yawn. After all, such ultra-elitist, top-tier shifts have little
effect on
> the massive daily political grind, the real meat and potatoes of
government,
> right? This is the common wisdom. A change in presidents is like changing
the
> paint on an aircraft carrier: different patina, same damn boat.
>
> Not this time. All those who normally claim that a change in who sits in
the
> Oval Office means nothing are now all frantically waving their arms and
shouting
> their protests and joining the resistance. This election is different.
This one
> matters like never before in history, considering how so many of us
> underestimated just how much damage a single president's gnarled, hateful
> administration could unleash upon the world in a single term.
>
> This is the new rallying cry. If you care at all about the soul of this
country,
> if you care at all about women's rights and gay rights and true spiritual
> freedom and the environment and our international standing, if you care at
all
> about actually reducing the anti-U.S. hatred in the world, as opposed to
> amplifying it a thousandfold, then oh my god yes, this election matters.
>
> This, then, is how you know it's time for a serious change. When you can
feel it
> in your bones, when you finally attune and really listen to the underlying
> messages and dig deep into your own spirit and discover that no, this
isn't the
> way the world is supposed to work. This is not the way the country has to
be.
>
> This is not the way the world's greatest superpower is supposed to behave,
this
> bitter metallic taste that leaps into my mouth whenever I see a picture of
> BushCo isn't really supposed to be there, the vice president isn't
supposed to
> make children cry and flowers wilt and the gods recoil in disgust.
>
> And the president isn't supposed to mangle the language and induce
multiple wars
> and invite international derision and make so many millions of us ashamed
to be
> Americans. It's time for a serious change. This is how you know.
> -Mark
Morford
>

[AJH]

What is it about ROFB you don't understand? Take your political BS else
where.


Git-R-Done

[AJH]

What is it about ROFB you don't understand? Take your political BS else
where.


Git-R-Done

[AJH]

What is it about ROFB you don't understand? Take your political BS else
where.


Git-R-Done

[Ken Fortenberry]

AJH wrote:

> What is it about ROFB you don't understand?

Most of it. I mean tournament fishing is an abomination
against god and sportsmen, using 30 lb. test to winch in
5 lb. fish is horsing, not fishing, and there's a whole lot
of unnecessary holier-than thou snobbery around here towards
those who would use nightcrawlers and minnows.

> Take your political BS else
> where.

But, but, THEY started it ! ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Ken Fortenberry]

AJH wrote:

> What is it about ROFB you don't understand?

Most of it. I mean tournament fishing is an abomination
against god and sportsmen, using 30 lb. test to winch in
5 lb. fish is horsing, not fishing, and there's a whole lot
of unnecessary holier-than thou snobbery around here towards
those who would use nightcrawlers and minnows.

> Take your political BS else
> where.

But, but, THEY started it ! ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

[Ken Fortenberry]

AJH wrote:

> What is it about ROFB you don't understand?

Most of it. I mean tournament fishing is an abomination
against god and sportsmen, using 30 lb. test to winch in
5 lb. fish is horsing, not fishing, and there's a whole lot
of unnecessary holier-than thou snobbery around here towards
those who would use nightcrawlers and minnows.

> Take your political BS else
> where.

But, but, THEY started it ! ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

[[email protected]]

Hey Craig, why don't you keep your stupid political views off this
newsgroup. I for one respect our Commander in Cheif & his degree from
Yale.

[[email protected]]

Hey Craig, why don't you keep your stupid political views off this
newsgroup. I for one respect our Commander in Cheif & his degree from
Yale.

[RGarri7470]

You sure spent a lot of words convincing me I am right to support President
Bush and vote for him.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[RGarri7470]

You sure spent a lot of words convincing me I am right to support President
Bush and vote for him.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

[Lure builder]

Spoil is the correct term and not the fancy rhetoric of TNBass. I only say that
since he said NOPE spoil is not the correct term. I saw a show on TV where
there was a checkpoint for fish and game. The CO laid charges for what he
called letting game go to spoil. The meat was smelly and the carcus wasn't
gutted. The CO said you have a responsibility once you harvest game not to let
it go to spoil. He made some seisures, laid charges and rightly so. Spoil is
the term not fancy rhetoric that nobody knows the true meaning
I'm respectful of fish whether it be bass or coarse fish..

[Lure builder]

Spoil is the correct term and not the fancy rhetoric of TNBass. I only say that
since he said NOPE spoil is not the correct term. I saw a show on TV where
there was a checkpoint for fish and game. The CO laid charges for what he
called letting game go to spoil. The meat was smelly and the carcus wasn't
gutted. The CO said you have a responsibility once you harvest game not to let
it go to spoil. He made some seisures, laid charges and rightly so. Spoil is
the term not fancy rhetoric that nobody knows the true meaning
I'm respectful of fish whether it be bass or coarse fish..

[Fritz Nordengren]

The fish was a "croppie" as Roland Martin pronounced it (In some parts
of the county you might say "crappie"


Roland Martin: "The President caught a nice crappie and Barnie...."

The President cuts in: "he licked it"

The President went on to say, "Barney likes to be part of the fishing
experinece.... course, then we put it in the bucket so we can eat it."


The entire show is NOT online, but it is covered in a clip on Jon
Stewart's Daily Show on www.comedycentral.com (look at the 'campaigning
in the sticks' clip -- you first see some of a Kerry Stump speech --
then the crappie discussion)


Guys a piece like this -- cheezy and silly -- is just part of the
campaign trail -- a little like pardoning the Thanksgiving Turkey or
kissing babies -- and to base your political preference on one of these
appearances is a little like debating politics in a fishing group.

Oh, wait, I guess I repeated myself.

<lighten up guys -- we have a long way to go before the last two weeks
of the campaign when the real ghosts come out of the closet>

Henry Hefner wrote:
> Ken Fortenberry wrote:
>
>> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>>
>> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
>> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>>
>> If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
>> on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
>> for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."
>>
>> http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/
>>
>
> I watched it today, and you have misrepresented what happened. President
> Bush did say that the first dink went to the dog to play with, and he
> also stated later on that the dog doesn't bite them, but just licks
> them. Yes, when he put the fish on the deck it appeared in the couple of
> seconds that the camera was on him, that the dog was very enthusiastic
> about getting to the fish, but it was never shown or said that the dog
> chews them to death. I don't know how you got out of my killfile, but
> your a-fixin' to go back.

[Fritz Nordengren]

The fish was a "croppie" as Roland Martin pronounced it (In some parts
of the county you might say "crappie"


Roland Martin: "The President caught a nice crappie and Barnie...."

The President cuts in: "he licked it"

The President went on to say, "Barney likes to be part of the fishing
experinece.... course, then we put it in the bucket so we can eat it."


The entire show is NOT online, but it is covered in a clip on Jon
Stewart's Daily Show on www.comedycentral.com (look at the 'campaigning
in the sticks' clip -- you first see some of a Kerry Stump speech --
then the crappie discussion)


Guys a piece like this -- cheezy and silly -- is just part of the
campaign trail -- a little like pardoning the Thanksgiving Turkey or
kissing babies -- and to base your political preference on one of these
appearances is a little like debating politics in a fishing group.

Oh, wait, I guess I repeated myself.

<lighten up guys -- we have a long way to go before the last two weeks
of the campaign when the real ghosts come out of the closet>

Henry Hefner wrote:
> Ken Fortenberry wrote:
>
>> Did you happen to watch Dubya on the Roland Martin show ?
>>
>> Seems our Chief Executive catches bass and then lets his
>> dog chew them to death instead of releasing them.
>>
>> If you didn't catch it the first time, it will air again
>> on the Outdoor Life Network. Go here and follow the links
>> for air times, the episode is called "The Executive Pond."
>>
>> http://www.fishingwithrolandmartin.com/
>>
>
> I watched it today, and you have misrepresented what happened. President
> Bush did say that the first dink went to the dog to play with, and he
> also stated later on that the dog doesn't bite them, but just licks
> them. Yes, when he put the fish on the deck it appeared in the couple of
> seconds that the camera was on him, that the dog was very enthusiastic
> about getting to the fish, but it was never shown or said that the dog
> chews them to death. I don't know how you got out of my killfile, but
> your a-fixin' to go back.

[Henry Hefner]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
<huge amount of off-topic garbage snipped> I said you were about to
make the killfile, and I waited to see if you were man enough to admit
your lies about the president on TV. Instead you either wrote or
copy/pasted a sheet of propaganda on a fishing forum. A lot of people
have died so that you can write stuff like that in freedom, but you
would rather support those who won't fight terrorism, and would like to
hand the keys to the free nations over to the UN.

Plonk!

[Henry Hefner]

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
<huge amount of off-topic garbage snipped> I said you were about to
make the killfile, and I waited to see if you were man enough to admit
your lies about the president on TV. Instead you either wrote or
copy/pasted a sheet of propaganda on a fishing forum. A lot of people
have died so that you can write stuff like that in freedom, but you
would rather support those who won't fight terrorism, and would like to
hand the keys to the free nations over to the UN.

Plonk!