a sense of perspective
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
He had a
net worth of around $12 million the day *before* he left office.
Pretty nice set up -- enter office in 92 with $250,000 net worth, and
leave eight years later a millionaire.


you keep repeating this "fact", but I highly doubt both that it is true, or
that you have any factual basis for repeating it. Thus, it is a repeated
lie, a common tactic of recent political discourse.
Tom
p.s. Just for starters, how do you know anyone's net worth on
a given day, beyond your own?

a sense of perspective
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:18:55 GMT, "Thomas Littleton"
wrote:


That would clearly make two so far, including yourself. My experience is
with the Reservists. They are ****ed, and few, if any
are interested in continuing in the Reserves, let alone a second tour.
Take that to the bank....


Ah, yes, the reservists. Join to get all the bennies - a little extra
pay and help with the college bills, but when it comes to fulfilling
their contract some (not all or even a majority) bitch and moan. Know
a couple of them myself. Overall the reserves are pretty good and we
couldn't get along without them. But they must realize that they
joined the *military*, not a college fraternity.
Stuff that up your bank.

"According to a study by the Associated Press, reserve casualties were
10 per cent of the total in the first phase of the war. Since then the
proportion has grown: 36 per cent of total deaths in the first nine
months of 2005 were guard and reserve. Put another way, 45 per cent of
those guard and reserve deaths, 220 of 550, were in those nine months.
In August and September 2005, 56 per cent of U.S. military casualties
were from the guard and reserve."

from: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/ir...000deaths.html

It's really beyond my comprehension that you would have the incredible
gall and heartless bad taste to disrespect our reservists.





--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

a sense of perspective
 

"rw" wrote in message

from: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/ir...000deaths.html

It's really beyond my comprehension that you would have the incredible
gall and heartless bad taste to disrespect our reservists.


thanks for beating me to a link for that data. Hey, Dave doesn't have to
risk his life supporting this farce of a "War on Terror"; that will fall to
his grandchildren. Thus, it is easy to call others cowardly, easy, and
pathetic, when you look at it closely. Oh, and Dave, I don't think(as a
local example from nephews unit) that a 46 year old High School principal is
still in the Reserves just for the bennies......
actually, I know he isn't, as I know the guy. For you to impugn the service
of others, I find truly puzzling and a bit disturbing.......
Tom

a sense of perspective
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:06:15 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Cut back on the raison sic and you could settle into a
more normal once a day routine. When you have two BMs before
Happy Hour you're obviously full of ****.

splork

Three?
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

a sense of perspective
 

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:24:18 -0600, wrote:


And you've not heard me come out in favor of socialized medicine. It's
just a ****ed-up quasi insurance company run by bureaucrats,and as such,
it doesn't work, either. First and foremost, the _health care_ system
in this country is pretty good, with relatively few going without. In
fact, I'd guess (but don't know absolutely) that overall care would
probably decrease with socialized medicine.


Total, unmitigated bull****. Wade through your health care industry
propaganda, find some independent sources and learn some facts.
So-called "socialized" health insurance schemes are vastly more
efficient than the U.S. mult-payor system. Some years back there was
a study of the Ontario Health Insurance Plan vs. U.S. private plans.
The Ontario government run, "socialized" OHIP plan consumed only 0.9%
of every preimum dollar (that's 9/10ths of one cent for the
mathematically challenged) to cover administrative costs while U.S.
private insurers had administrative costs that ran as high as 37% (37
cents of every premium dollar).

One of the greatest contrasts between a Canadian hospital and a U.S.
one can be found in the size of their respective A/R departments.
Tiny, tiny, tiny in a Canadian hospital and huge in a U.S. hospital.
Every dollar that goes into the A/R department or the marketing
department, is one less dollar available for treatment.

The Canadian system is full of problems, in large part because it has
to exist side-by-side with yours and it's under constant assualt by
the ****ing neo-cons who want it dismanetled so they can fatten their
wallets. Even so, it still manages to deliver consistently better
outcomes and world leading technologies at about half the cost. And
it doesn't leave a fifth of the population behind in the process. The
Canadian system costs less per capita to deliver total coverage to
the entire popultaion, including recent immigrants, than the the U.S.
Medicare system does to cover just a small portion of the U.S.
population.

Canadian doctors have flocked south in the past to enjoy the profits
of the U.S. system. These days there's an equal flow north of ex-pat
doctors returning to Canada because of the greater medical freedom in
Canada -- POP, there goes another "socialized" medicine myth. There's
more medical freedom to practice heer than there is in the HMO ridden
system down south. I remember Wayne Knight getting all over my ass
about this and then later in the thread he wrote some of the most
convoluted crap I've ever read trying to describe when and when not an
uninsured person could recieve ER treatment in the U.S. The doctor
needed a lawyer standing at his shoulder offering advice as to which
cut would be covered and which cut wouldn't. You think this is
****ing better?

The final icing on the cake in these discussion always comes along
when some yahoo says, "I don't see any Americans running to other
countries to get medical care there." That's why Ontario had to spend
millions to introduce photo ID and proof of residence for it's health
care cards because so many poor Americans were stealing/forging the
old OHIP cards to get free coverage here. I never had to show my OHIP
card before when I visited the doctor but I do now. The fraud level
was that bad.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

a sense of perspective
 

Thomas Littleton wrote:
"rw" wrote in message


from: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/ir...000deaths.html

It's really beyond my comprehension that you would have the incredible
gall and heartless bad taste to disrespect our reservists.



thanks for beating me to a link for that data. Hey, Dave doesn't have to
risk his life supporting this farce of a "War on Terror"; that will fall to
his grandchildren.

No, not Dave's grandchildren. It will fall to poor people's
grandchildren, the ones without a trust fund.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

a sense of perspective
 

"Stan Gula" wrote in message
news:jrtgf.4530$BU2.3781@trndny01...
Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:06:15 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Cut back on the raison sic and you could settle into a
more normal once a day routine. When you have two BMs before
Happy Hour you're obviously full of ****.

splork

Three?

Before.....seems certain. After......hardly likely.

Wolfgang
brought to you as a public service by the north american anarchist
unlicensed free medical advice association.

a sense of perspective
 

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:40:59 -0500, Peter Charles
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:24:18 -0600, wrote:


And you've not heard me come out in favor of socialized medicine. It's
just a ****ed-up quasi insurance company run by bureaucrats,and as such,
it doesn't work, either. First and foremost, the _health care_ system
in this country is pretty good, with relatively few going without. In
fact, I'd guess (but don't know absolutely) that overall care would
probably decrease with socialized medicine.


Total, unmitigated bull****. Wade through your health care industry
propaganda, find some independent sources and learn some facts.
So-called "socialized" health insurance schemes are vastly more
efficient than the U.S. mult-payor system. Some years back there was
a study of the Ontario Health Insurance Plan vs. U.S. private plans.
The Ontario government run, "socialized" OHIP plan consumed only 0.9%
of every preimum dollar (that's 9/10ths of one cent for the
mathematically challenged) to cover administrative costs while U.S.
private insurers had administrative costs that ran as high as 37% (37
cents of every premium dollar).

One of the greatest contrasts between a Canadian hospital and a U.S.
one can be found in the size of their respective A/R departments.
Tiny, tiny, tiny in a Canadian hospital and huge in a U.S. hospital.
Every dollar that goes into the A/R department or the marketing
department, is one less dollar available for treatment.

The Canadian system is full of problems, in large part because it has
to exist side-by-side with yours and it's under constant assualt by
the ****ing neo-cons who want it dismanetled so they can fatten their
wallets. Even so, it still manages to deliver consistently better
outcomes and world leading technologies at about half the cost. And
it doesn't leave a fifth of the population behind in the process. The
Canadian system costs less per capita to deliver total coverage to
the entire popultaion, including recent immigrants, than the the U.S.
Medicare system does to cover just a small portion of the U.S.
population.

Canadian doctors have flocked south in the past to enjoy the profits
of the U.S. system. These days there's an equal flow north of ex-pat
doctors returning to Canada because of the greater medical freedom in
Canada -- POP, there goes another "socialized" medicine myth. There's
more medical freedom to practice heer than there is in the HMO ridden
system down south. I remember Wayne Knight getting all over my ass
about this and then later in the thread he wrote some of the most
convoluted crap I've ever read trying to describe when and when not an
uninsured person could recieve ER treatment in the U.S. The doctor
needed a lawyer standing at his shoulder offering advice as to which
cut would be covered and which cut wouldn't. You think this is
****ing better?

The final icing on the cake in these discussion always comes along
when some yahoo says, "I don't see any Americans running to other
countries to get medical care there." That's why Ontario had to spend
millions to introduce photo ID and proof of residence for it's health
care cards because so many poor Americans were stealing/forging the
old OHIP cards to get free coverage here. I never had to show my OHIP
card before when I visited the doctor but I do now. The fraud level
was that bad.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Peter

Um, I was referring to the _care_ available, not the accounting or
payment involved in that care. IOW, if someone needs treatment, and
accounting isn't factored in, the available care in the US is as about
as good as it gets. You'll get no argument from me about likelihood of
the absolute, total, and completely ****ed up state of the payment
scheme for that care.

TC,
R

a sense of perspective
 

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...

Jesus, everybody has to tell me what wrong with my industry when they really
don't know **** about it.

Every dollar that goes into the A/R department [snip]
department, is one less dollar available for treatment.

Jesus dude, stick to whatever it is you do for a living or the causes of the
civil war.

Even so, it still manages to deliver consistently better
outcomes and world leading technologies at about half the cost.

I've got about 20 *outcome* studies in my work readings files. 50% give US
better outcomes, 2 give it to Canada, 5 to the French, and other three

it doesn't leave a fifth of the population behind in the process. The
Canadian system costs less per capita to deliver total coverage to
the entire popultaion, including recent immigrants, than the the U.S.
Medicare system does to cover just a small portion of the U.S.
population.

The Canadian system is not Utopia either Peter, the stories of waits and
non-care are not complete exagerations.

Canadian doctors have flocked south in the past to enjoy the profits
of the U.S. system. These days there's an equal flow north of ex-pat
doctors returning to Canada because of the greater medical freedom in
Canada --

I think the flow is still the other way, we like them Canadian docs, they
look like us *mericans and don't cost as much.

more medical freedom to practice heer than there is in the HMO ridden
system down south.

The HMO system is not what it used to be.

I remember Wayne Knight getting all over my ass
about this

I don't recall ever getting all over your ass, but just as Richie has his
misconceptions , so do you.

he wrote some of the most
convoluted crap I've ever read trying to describe when and when not an
uninsured person could recieve ER treatment in the U.S.

That's what I get for trying to explain a complex issue to several
uneducated parties in few off topic paragraphs on ROFF. It really is very
simple, even a republican could understand them. Bottom line present in any
US ER in distress and you should get evaluated and stabilized. I'd like to
say *will* instead of *should* but there are always the dishonest in
everything and there are laws and penalties to deal with those people.

The final icing on the cake in these discussion always comes along
when some yahoo says, "I don't see any Americans running to other
countries to get medical care there."

Drugs, send more drugs

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Canada exports that too?

Wayne
Truth be known, would rather have a single payor system (that's what Canada
has Richie, not socialized medicine) but not until the current set of goons
is out of office.

Oh yea, Steve for the most part kids in this country can get care.

a sense of perspective
 

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:03:27 -0500, "Wayne Knight"
wrote:

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
.. .

Jesus, everybody has to tell me what wrong with my industry when they really
don't know **** about it.


You've forgotten more about your system than I'll ever know but when I
read your stuff here on this subject, you come off as a man who can't
see the wood for the trees.



I've got about 20 *outcome* studies in my work readings files. 50% give US
better outcomes, 2 give it to Canada, 5 to the French, and other three

Well, we could sit here and sling, "My study is better than your
study." but the most comprehensive, fair, unbiased and massive study I
ran across had Canada slightly ahead overall. It acknowledged that
the U.S. system does a better job on cardiac care but worse in others.
True to form of course, our press only reported the cardiac care side
of things.

But in the end, outcome studies only measure those who are treated.
They don't measure those who go without.


The Canadian system is not Utopia either Peter, the stories of waits and
non-care are not complete exagerations.


No they are not, but I ask you, if you had a choice between waiting a
year for a hip replacement or waiting the rest of your life in vain,
what would you choose? Our non-care cases pale into total
insignificance when compared to yours. Most of the crap about our
system, comes from two sources, the Canadian media who have vested
interests in making out that it is worse than it really is and
American medical industry giants who stand to make billions here if it
were torn down. Add to the mix, the ****ing neo-cons who would sell
us all down the river for a small bump upward in their stock options,
and that sums up most of what you read and hear.


I think the flow is still the other way, we like them Canadian docs, they
look like us *mericans and don't cost as much.

Well don't get too cozy with them as many of them are willing to take
a substantial pay cut to come home -- that speaks volumes.



The HMO system is not what it used to be.

No **** Sherlock.


That's what I get for trying to explain a complex issue to several
uneducated parties in few off topic paragraphs on ROFF. It really is very
simple, even a republican could understand them. Bottom line present in any
US ER in distress and you should get evaluated and stabilized. I'd like to
say *will* instead of *should* but there are always the dishonest in
everything and there are laws and penalties to deal with those people.


Wayne, when I read that piece, I wanted to dissassemble it in the
worst way. It was the one of the worst examples, one of the greatest
indictments of your system that I had ever read. In the final
analysis, I let it ride. It stood on its own merits. It's a shame
you can't see that.



Drugs, send more drugs

Nope, we've decided that our drugs are not safe so we shouldn't
inflict them on you. That tap is being turned off.


Canada exports that too?

Yup, Tim Hortons

Wayne
Truth be known, would rather have a single payor system (that's what Canada
has Richie, not socialized medicine) but not until the current set of goons
is out of office.

Oh yea, Steve for the most part kids in this country can get care.



Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply