Another Pipeline Believer
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"...the cost-free operation of a continental gravity gird! sweet!
:) "

GOOD GOD! THE IDIOT MISSPELLED "grid"!!!!

Wolfgang

Another Pipeline Believer
 

On Aug 3, 6:49 am, "Wolfgang" wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message

...







OBROFF: Jeff, the thought was that energy transfer is energy transfer
be it from the wind or any other source. If you have a wind blowing up
a ridge in Wyoming and a field of windmills dampening it, what is the
reduced wind power on the lee side of the Ridge?

Your pal,

TBone
Guilt replaced the creel

i reckon it's just hard for me to "concept it". wrapping my brain around
the idea that wind is consumed on a large and static scale is
difficult...no doubt a deficit in my brain rather than the concept. i
know that wind gusts can be disrupted in a fixed time and space...as in
one sailboat covering another's wind as part of racing strategy...but the
idea that it is ingested or gone completely...smothered...so as to alter
climate or "respiration" is what i'm trying to grasp. certainly there are
microcosms or spaces within mountain ranges and ridges where wind is
disrupted in the manner that concerns you...what is the effect?

are the deserts in east washington a product of prevailing wind disruption
by the mountain ranges?

don't windmills allow large amounts of wind to seep between the blades?
does wind really operate in the linear and constant manner necessary for
the disruption you suggest?

is the lee side of the ridge on one day necessarily in the lee every day?

Interesting questions, one and all, but they betray a misplaced concern,
doubtless engendered by.....um.....shall we say a certain lack of
sophistication in basic engineering principles? The trouble is not that
there isn't enough wind to go around. No, the trouble is that the wind
isn't evenly (and equitably) distributed. One day we have an excess in one
neighborhood while at the same time there is a dearth in another. Another
day, the situation will be reversed. With the experience gained in the
construction and implementation of a continent wide water grid, a similar
project for wind would be child's play.....after all, wind is a great deal
lighter (and correspondingly easier and cheaper to transport, right?) than
water. Moreover, the power required to move all that wind will be
absolutely free. Remember that the water grid depends on siphons to move
the water from Lake Michigan to Pueblo. Siphons, as any naif should clearly
understand, require nothing but gravity* for their motive force. The net
elevation gain (4000+ feet, for those who may have forgotten) represents an
enormous gain in energy potential......energy which can be used (bearing in
mind that all that water has to go back down some time or other) to generate
the electricity required to pump the wind to where it is needed.

jeff (whose first wife, named "lee", was a lovely zephyr...and, yes, the
black rum is at work)

Remind me sometime to give you my thoughts on a worldwide ethanol
distribution grid. I think I may have figured out a way to make it work.

Wolfgang
*yes, i am aware that it will take a LOT of gravity to move that much water
that far, resulting in temporary local scarcities. critics should try to
keep the big picture in mind. remember that the wind grid is merely a means
of assuring that there will always be plenty of it where needed to generate
electricity (and, of course, to pollinate those plants dependent on it)
which, added to that created by the falling water, will allow for the
cost-free operation of a continental gravity gird! sweet! :)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"The net elevation gain (4000+ feet, for those who may have
forgotten) represents an
enormous gain in energy potential...."
I hope your not saying what I think you are. Water only runs
downhill, even with a sphon. If you want to raise it 4000' you need a
pump. It's in the first week of pipefitter apprentice training-- ****
floats, water runs downhill, paydays on Friday.

Another Pipeline Believer
 

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:03:18 -0000, BJ Conner wrote:

On Aug 3, 6:49 am, "Wolfgang" wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message

...







OBROFF: Jeff, the thought was that energy transfer is energy transfer
be it from the wind or any other source. If you have a wind blowing up
a ridge in Wyoming and a field of windmills dampening it, what is the
reduced wind power on the lee side of the Ridge?

Your pal,

TBone
Guilt replaced the creel

i reckon it's just hard for me to "concept it". wrapping my brain around
the idea that wind is consumed on a large and static scale is
difficult...no doubt a deficit in my brain rather than the concept. i
know that wind gusts can be disrupted in a fixed time and space...as in
one sailboat covering another's wind as part of racing strategy...but the
idea that it is ingested or gone completely...smothered...so as to alter
climate or "respiration" is what i'm trying to grasp. certainly there are
microcosms or spaces within mountain ranges and ridges where wind is
disrupted in the manner that concerns you...what is the effect?

are the deserts in east washington a product of prevailing wind disruption
by the mountain ranges?

don't windmills allow large amounts of wind to seep between the blades?
does wind really operate in the linear and constant manner necessary for
the disruption you suggest?

is the lee side of the ridge on one day necessarily in the lee every day?

Interesting questions, one and all, but they betray a misplaced concern,
doubtless engendered by.....um.....shall we say a certain lack of
sophistication in basic engineering principles? The trouble is not that
there isn't enough wind to go around. No, the trouble is that the wind
isn't evenly (and equitably) distributed. One day we have an excess in one
neighborhood while at the same time there is a dearth in another. Another
day, the situation will be reversed. With the experience gained in the
construction and implementation of a continent wide water grid, a similar
project for wind would be child's play.....after all, wind is a great deal
lighter (and correspondingly easier and cheaper to transport, right?) than
water. Moreover, the power required to move all that wind will be
absolutely free. Remember that the water grid depends on siphons to move
the water from Lake Michigan to Pueblo. Siphons, as any naif should clearly
understand, require nothing but gravity* for their motive force. The net
elevation gain (4000+ feet, for those who may have forgotten) represents an
enormous gain in energy potential......energy which can be used (bearing in
mind that all that water has to go back down some time or other) to generate
the electricity required to pump the wind to where it is needed.

jeff (whose first wife, named "lee", was a lovely zephyr...and, yes, the
black rum is at work)

Remind me sometime to give you my thoughts on a worldwide ethanol
distribution grid. I think I may have figured out a way to make it work.

Wolfgang
*yes, i am aware that it will take a LOT of gravity to move that much water
that far, resulting in temporary local scarcities. critics should try to
keep the big picture in mind. remember that the wind grid is merely a means
of assuring that there will always be plenty of it where needed to generate
electricity (and, of course, to pollinate those plants dependent on it)
which, added to that created by the falling water, will allow for the
cost-free operation of a continental gravity gird! sweet! :)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"The net elevation gain (4000+ feet, for those who may have
forgotten) represents an
enormous gain in energy potential...."
I hope your not saying what I think you are. Water only runs
downhill, even with a sphon. If you want to raise it 4000' you need a
pump. It's in the first week of pipefitter apprentice training-- ****
floats, water runs downhill, paydays on Friday.

Ummm....I think your Joke Discriminator circuit has failed...

Another Pipeline Believer
 

"BJ Conner" wrote in message
ups.com...

"The net elevation gain (4000+ feet, for those who may have
forgotten) represents an
enormous gain in energy potential...."
I hope your not saying what I think you are. Water only runs
downhill, even with a sphon. If you want to raise it 4000' you need a
pump. It's in the first week of pipefitter apprentice training-- ****
floats, water runs downhill, paydays on Friday.

Doesn't matter. Once the water, wind, and gravity grids get fully on line,
there'll be so much excess free electricity we can pump all the water we
want, and still have to figure out what to do with the leftovers. The good
news is that I've already figured out the solution to this problem too.
Rather than filling all those gravity wells in situ, we ship 'em all to a
third world country somewhere and then fill 'em up with the electricity.
This not only solves the problem of what to do with all the electricity we
can't use, it also gives us a tremendous reserve that can be tapped (in the
unlikely event that the system should go down) until repairs can be
effected.

Now, lest anyone accuse me of undue optimism, let me hasten to point out
that I am fully aware of the fly in the ointment. Trees. All those goddamn
pesky polluting trees have been damping (and, yes, undeniably dampening as
well) the world's winds for so long that most people think the whole mess is
just a natural and inevitable part of the natural order. Not so. It's an
illusion born of familiarity and intellectual laziness. Cut 'em all down
and the elysian fields will blossom as never before seen since our
progenitors were ejected from paradise!*

Wolfgang
*think about it......anybody remember seeing anything in genesis about
deficient winds? anybody remember any references to the "forest" of eden?
things that make you go "hm," hm?

Another Pipeline Believer
 

On Aug 3, 7:16 am, daytripper wrote:
On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:03:18 -0000, BJ Conner wrote:
On Aug 3, 6:49 am, "Wolfgang" wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message

...

OBROFF: Jeff, the thought was that energy transfer is energy transfer
be it from the wind or any other source. If you have a wind blowing up
a ridge in Wyoming and a field of windmills dampening it, what is the
reduced wind power on the lee side of the Ridge?

Your pal,

TBone
Guilt replaced the creel

i reckon it's just hard for me to "concept it". wrapping my brain around
the idea that wind is consumed on a large and static scale is
difficult...no doubt a deficit in my brain rather than the concept. i
know that wind gusts can be disrupted in a fixed time and space...as in
one sailboat covering another's wind as part of racing strategy...but the
idea that it is ingested or gone completely...smothered...so as to alter
climate or "respiration" is what i'm trying to grasp. certainly there are
microcosms or spaces within mountain ranges and ridges where wind is
disrupted in the manner that concerns you...what is the effect?

are the deserts in east washington a product of prevailing wind disruption
by the mountain ranges?

don't windmills allow large amounts of wind to seep between the blades?
does wind really operate in the linear and constant manner necessary for
the disruption you suggest?

is the lee side of the ridge on one day necessarily in the lee every day?

Interesting questions, one and all, but they betray a misplaced concern,
doubtless engendered by.....um.....shall we say a certain lack of
sophistication in basic engineering principles? The trouble is not that
there isn't enough wind to go around. No, the trouble is that the wind
isn't evenly (and equitably) distributed. One day we have an excess in one
neighborhood while at the same time there is a dearth in another. Another
day, the situation will be reversed. With the experience gained in the
construction and implementation of a continent wide water grid, a similar
project for wind would be child's play.....after all, wind is a great deal
lighter (and correspondingly easier and cheaper to transport, right?) than
water. Moreover, the power required to move all that wind will be
absolutely free. Remember that the water grid depends on siphons to move
the water from Lake Michigan to Pueblo. Siphons, as any naif should clearly
understand, require nothing but gravity* for their motive force. The net
elevation gain (4000+ feet, for those who may have forgotten) represents an
enormous gain in energy potential......energy which can be used (bearing in
mind that all that water has to go back down some time or other) to generate
the electricity required to pump the wind to where it is needed.

jeff (whose first wife, named "lee", was a lovely zephyr...and, yes, the
black rum is at work)

Remind me sometime to give you my thoughts on a worldwide ethanol
distribution grid. I think I may have figured out a way to make it work.

Wolfgang
*yes, i am aware that it will take a LOT of gravity to move that much water
that far, resulting in temporary local scarcities. critics should try to
keep the big picture in mind. remember that the wind grid is merely a means
of assuring that there will always be plenty of it where needed to generate
electricity (and, of course, to pollinate those plants dependent on it)
which, added to that created by the falling water, will allow for the
cost-free operation of a continental gravity gird! sweet! :)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"The net elevation gain (4000+ feet, for those who may have
forgotten) represents an
enormous gain in energy potential...."
I hope your not saying what I think you are. Water only runs
downhill, even with a sphon. If you want to raise it 4000' you need a
pump. It's in the first week of pipefitter apprentice training-- ****
floats, water runs downhill, paydays on Friday.

Ummm....I think your Joke Discriminator circuit has failed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Damit- I though so, but with wolfgang it's hard to keep it calibrated.

Another Pipeline Believer
 

Wolfgang typed:
"BJ Conner" wrote in message
ups.com...

"The net elevation gain (4000+ feet, for those who may have
forgotten) represents an
enormous gain in energy potential...."
I hope your not saying what I think you are. Water only runs
downhill, even with a sphon. If you want to raise it 4000' you need
a pump. It's in the first week of pipefitter apprentice training--
**** floats, water runs downhill, paydays on Friday.

Doesn't matter. Once the water, wind, and gravity grids get fully on
line, there'll be so much excess free electricity we can pump all the
water we want, and still have to figure out what to do with the
leftovers.

I, for one, would like to see a "common sense" grid installed at the
earliest possible moment. There is abundance in some areas and other areas
are dry as hell. Once this grid is in place, the others may not be required.
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Another Pipeline Believer
 

On Aug 3, 8:40 am, "Tim J." wrote:
Wolfgang typed:

"BJ Conner" wrote in message
oups.com...

"The net elevation gain (4000+ feet, for those who may have
forgotten) represents an
enormous gain in energy potential...."
I hope your not saying what I think you are. Water only runs
downhill, even with a sphon. If you want to raise it 4000' you need
a pump. It's in the first week of pipefitter apprentice training--
**** floats, water runs downhill, paydays on Friday.

Doesn't matter. Once the water, wind, and gravity grids get fully on
line, there'll be so much excess free electricity we can pump all the
water we want, and still have to figure out what to do with the
leftovers.

I, for one, would like to see a "common sense" grid installed at the
earliest possible moment. There is abundance in some areas and other areas
are dry as hell. Once this grid is in place, the others may not be required.
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------http://css.sbcma.com/timj

And, ya know...the trout streams could run at full-on cfs, at all
times as needed, if we did. And, with all the fishing revenue thus
created, one would think TU would back The Transcontinental Siphon and
Station Grid.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer
A Cash Flow Runs Through It

Another Pipeline Believer
 

On Aug 2, 5:44 pm, jeff wrote:
OBROFF: Jeff, the thought was that energy transfer is energy transfer
be it from the wind or any other source. If you have a wind blowing up
a ridge in Wyoming and a field of windmills dampening it, what is the
reduced wind power on the lee side of the Ridge?

Your pal,

TBone
Guilt replaced the creel

i reckon it's just hard for me to "concept it". wrapping my brain
around the idea that wind is consumed on a large and static scale is
difficult...no doubt a deficit in my brain rather than the concept. i
know that wind gusts can be disrupted in a fixed time and space...as in
one sailboat covering another's wind as part of racing strategy...but
the idea that it is ingested or gone completely...smothered...so as to
alter climate or "respiration" is what i'm trying to grasp. certainly
there are microcosms or spaces within mountain ranges and ridges where
wind is disrupted in the manner that concerns you...what is the effect?

are the deserts in east washington a product of prevailing wind
disruption by the mountain ranges?

don't windmills allow large amounts of wind to seep between the blades?
does wind really operate in the linear and constant manner necessary for
the disruption you suggest?

is the lee side of the ridge on one day necessarily in the lee every day?

jeff (whose first wife, named "lee", was a lovely zephyr...and, yes, the
black rum is at work)

I can not either but one is left to assume the energy is transferred
from one form (wind) to another (electricity). One of the plans was a
field of turbines in open salt water. Wave action, being critical to
oxygen/CO2 transfer, would be constantly lessened, would it not? To
what degree and would it matter are other questions that I have no
idea of the answer.

No black run at work but very little black coffee either.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer
Guilt replaced the creel.

Another Pipeline Believer
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
...

I, for one, would like to see a "common sense" grid installed at the
earliest possible moment. There is abundance in some areas and other areas
are dry as hell. Once this grid is in place, the others may not be
required.

An altogether different sort of problem, made all the more difficult of
solution by the unfortunate use of the qualifier "common" which bolsters the
nearly universal perception of at least local abundance. Water, wind and
gravity grids are simple engineering problems, a matter of distribution.
Unfortunately, the demand for common sense, minuscule as it is, far
outstrips the world's always insufficient (and ever and rapidly dwindling,
if the evidence is to be believed) supply.

Wolfgang
....if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing......let's
break out the booze and have a ball...

Another Pipeline Believer
 

"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message
ps.com...

And, ya know...the trout streams could run at full-on cfs, at all
times as needed, if we did. And, with all the fishing revenue thus
created, one would think TU would back The Transcontinental Siphon and
Station Grid.

And a few hundreds of trillions of dollars, continental ecological
devastation, and the wholesale repeal of the laws of physics seem a small
enough price to pay for increasing your girth and assuaging your guilt, eh?

A Cash Flow Runs Through It

Ainna?

Wolfgang