TR
 

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 23:03:39 -0500, daytripper
wrote:

/daytripper

Your slip is showing; Connor gets a "Cheers" and I get what?
I think your intent is perfectly clear, Dave. You have not censured
or disapproved of anything Connor has said, give him a "cheers" and
blame everything on me. If roff is like it is today because of me,
then I think I have done a marvelous job. If it is such a hell hole,
why does Connor keep coming back, and why do you even open, never mind
read, my posts?

By not censuring Connor, and remaining "neutral", you encourage his
rage. Have you counted his posts in the past 1000 and found how many
have been negative? Have you counted the number of times he has
called others names with language you wouldn't use in your own home?
I know, I know, if I didn't read and answer his posts he wouldn't do
it, so therefore it is my fault. I make him what he is by recognizing
him.

TR
 

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:58:11 -0800 (PST), Mike
wrote:

On 22 Nov, 03:24, daytripper wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:59:16 -0800 (PST), Mike
wrote:
[...]

I don´t know what Mr.Tatosian is going to do, but I definitely will
not reply to you again, it makes me feel dirty.

MC

It would go a long way to restoring some semblance of civilization here if you
would simply hold to that commitment, Mike...

Cheers

/daytripper

Well, it´s an interesting theory, but I don´t think you will ever
restore "civilisation" here, as per definition, it requires people to
be civil, and several here gave up any semblance of that long ago, and
some were never privy to its niceties at all. The Ricks and Oakies.
Would you fish with such? I wouldn´t.

Regardless of what one posts, one must expect a sniper or some other
well-wisher to start the insults and rubbish. It´s like trying to
navigate a minefield blindfolded while giving a lecture to
recalcitrant schoolboys. One must weigh every single word with the
utmost care, and it still does no good.

Once upon a time this place worked reasonably well, because the checks
and balances, such as they were, still operated on the basis of mutual
respect and a certain peer pressure was evident. That has not been the
case for a long time. It actually started in earnest with Gehrke.
There is no way now even to shame some people into behaving in a civil
manner. They obviously view this place as some sort of personal
playground, where they may simply do as they like, without let or
hindrance. Unfortunately, that is also true. Without self control,
there is no control.

To be truthful, the only reason I am still here, is because I do not
wish to give anybody the satisfaction of saying I left in a snit or
some equally ridiculous crap. I will never bow down to liars, cowards,
and assholes. Also, just to make it clear, I am not refraining from
replying to LaCourse, Fortenberry, or that total ****bag Dean, because
it is the civil thing to do, I am doing it because anything else is
totally pointless. One might as well try to converse with a retarded
five year old in a tantrum, or a common house brick.

There is virtually no joy here any more, and it is also quite boring.
That is why it will just slide away quietly, and nobody will miss it
much. Those of you who are friends outside this group will doubtless
remain so, and that is fine. But this group is doomed as a going
concern. It was doomed the first time somebody abused another member
in an unforgivable manner, and nobody said anything. This has happened
countless times in the meantime, and nothing much was done. You lost
the best "bouncer" you had when Cyli passed. Her presence, and
occasionally her words, still held sway over even the worst offenders.
There is now nothing at all, no matter how low, evil, and nasty, some
would not say in the hope of damaging somebody they hate and perceive
to be an enemy. They HATE somebody, who at least originally, came here
because of a common interest, maybe even the love of fly-fishing. What
a disgusting perversion.

It all ceased to be about fishing a long time ago as well.

You don´t really want to associate with ****bags like Dean do you? He
is a nasty ******* because he enjoys being a nasty *******, and he
will never change.Neither will Fortenberry, he will continue to attack
and denigrate people who disagree with him, convinced beyond any
possible doubt that he is right, and therefore has the right to use
any means to further or impose his views on others. LaCourse is just
an unfortunate casualty, like an old bull full of banderillas, shaking
his head and feinting with what is left of his strength and hoping to
hit something with his horns although half blind with frustration and
rage. He doesn´t know what´s going on half the time. He has already
begun writing his attack before he has read and understood the first
line of the post, while invariably misinterpreting the motives or
intentions of the poster.

All a bit bloody pathetic really.

My third attempt at writing this, and it seems no better than the
first two. I don´t suppose it matters much anyway, and I do have the
time at least. I am even getting bored with the bloody website
now..................

Bugger it.

Did you ever wonder why you seem to be the (new) target of the most
incoming fire, as it were? Speaking only for myself, it's 90-something
percent over-the-top shtick, but I'll grant that some of what comes from
some quarters _seems_ to be loaded with real malice. But since I can't
speak for those authors as to their actual feelings, I won't. OTOH,
_you_ seem to produce more hate-filled, truly venomous spew than just
about anyone here OR you come off as a pompous clown whose every opinion
ought to be worshipped by all as a nugget of pure, shining wisdom. IOW,
you're begging for a nonstop gigging in a fishcamp/hunting camp/barroom
place like ROFF.

Maybe you haven't been lucky enough to be a part of any real-life groups
of guys (and the occasional gal) that gather to fish and hunt and
generally be "guys," at least for a time. You know - fish or hunt,
drink, have a side of sirloin with their ribeye after a fish or
backstrap appetizer, drink, smoke cigars, drink and cuss and fart
without so much as the hint of a feminine look that says "you BETTER
excuse yourself now, mister..." If so, that's a shame, but I can tell
you from 25 years of thankfully near-constant experience with such, at
least as far as the general bull****ting goes, it's about par for the
(normal) course. If we (the real-life groups, IAC) didn't want at least
a temporary respite from being serious adults with jobs, businesses,
clients, wives, girlfriends, children, leaking plumbing, lawns to mow,
and other assorted responsibilities, we wouldn't be at the ****ing
camp/on the boat/etc. And everyone in these various overlapping groups,
sooner or later, is going to do something that strikes folks as worthy
of a little bit of gigging, and in a friendly way, that person is gonna
get gigged. If they act like an asshole about it, it's only going to
draw more. Speaking only for myself, I don't _hate_ anyone around here -
heck, I'd happily share a stream, a cockpit, a hunting camp fire or a
drink with many, even most, of the goofballs and reprobates that share
this virtual campfire.

And something in your post that particularly stood out to me is your
description of Dave as an "old bull..." While I'd agree that such a
description does seem to fit him at time, frankly, I think that
description also fits you. You seem hellbent on "impressing" all here
with your knowledge and what a superior specimen you are. I would offer
that if you simply added you opinion to the often-large pile and were
done with it unless (seriously) asked for more information - like most
here do - you'd have a much easier time of it. As to impressing anyone
here, I doubt _anyone_ here stands much of a chance on becoming crowned
the King of ROFF, simply because there are too many folks here that, at
least as far as their own fishing happiness goes, know their ****. And
a good many could teach you (and/or others) a trick or three. Plus, the
regulars aren't here for fishing lessons, they are here for the
bull****ting around the campfire, and interrupting the punchline of a
good dirty joke to instruct folks on proper etiquette ain't gonna win
friends and influence people.

As 'tripper said, albeit at the wrong time, grow up. Don't take things
so seriously. Sure, when appropriate, put down your cocktail and be
serious, but not so much that you can't have some real fun.

HTH,
R

TR
 

Mike wrote:

snip
To be truthful,

LOL !! Now *that's* funny !

the only reason I am still here, is because I do not
wish to give anybody the satisfaction of saying I left in a snit or
some equally ridiculous crap.

What ? No more swishing of the cape and flouncing off in a
huff ? Damn man, those were some of your finest performances,
in fact among the dozens of such exits from roff (always
forever, btw ;-) several were Oscar worthy. I'll miss them.

LOL !!

--
Ken Fortenberry

TR
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:58:11 -0800 (PST), Mike
wrote:

On 22 Nov, 03:24, daytripper wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:59:16 -0800 (PST), Mike

wrote:
[...]

I don´t know what Mr.Tatosian is going to do, but I definitely will
not reply to you again, it makes me feel dirty.

MC

It would go a long way to restoring some semblance of civilization here
if you
would simply hold to that commitment, Mike...

Cheers

/daytripper

Well, it´s an interesting theory, but I don´t think you will ever
restore "civilisation" here, as per definition, it requires people to
be civil, and several here gave up any semblance of that long ago, and
some were never privy to its niceties at all. The Ricks and Oakies.
Would you fish with such? I wouldn´t.

Regardless of what one posts, one must expect a sniper or some other
well-wisher to start the insults and rubbish. It´s like trying to
navigate a minefield blindfolded while giving a lecture to
recalcitrant schoolboys. One must weigh every single word with the
utmost care, and it still does no good.

Once upon a time this place worked reasonably well, because the checks
and balances, such as they were, still operated on the basis of mutual
respect and a certain peer pressure was evident. That has not been the
case for a long time. It actually started in earnest with Gehrke.
There is no way now even to shame some people into behaving in a civil
manner. They obviously view this place as some sort of personal
playground, where they may simply do as they like, without let or
hindrance. Unfortunately, that is also true. Without self control,
there is no control.

To be truthful, the only reason I am still here, is because I do not
wish to give anybody the satisfaction of saying I left in a snit or
some equally ridiculous crap. I will never bow down to liars, cowards,
and assholes. Also, just to make it clear, I am not refraining from
replying to LaCourse, Fortenberry, or that total ****bag Dean, because
it is the civil thing to do, I am doing it because anything else is
totally pointless. One might as well try to converse with a retarded
five year old in a tantrum, or a common house brick.

There is virtually no joy here any more, and it is also quite boring.
That is why it will just slide away quietly, and nobody will miss it
much. Those of you who are friends outside this group will doubtless
remain so, and that is fine. But this group is doomed as a going
concern. It was doomed the first time somebody abused another member
in an unforgivable manner, and nobody said anything. This has happened
countless times in the meantime, and nothing much was done. You lost
the best "bouncer" you had when Cyli passed. Her presence, and
occasionally her words, still held sway over even the worst offenders.
There is now nothing at all, no matter how low, evil, and nasty, some
would not say in the hope of damaging somebody they hate and perceive
to be an enemy. They HATE somebody, who at least originally, came here
because of a common interest, maybe even the love of fly-fishing. What
a disgusting perversion.

It all ceased to be about fishing a long time ago as well.

You don´t really want to associate with ****bags like Dean do you? He
is a nasty ******* because he enjoys being a nasty *******, and he
will never change.Neither will Fortenberry, he will continue to attack
and denigrate people who disagree with him, convinced beyond any
possible doubt that he is right, and therefore has the right to use
any means to further or impose his views on others. LaCourse is just
an unfortunate casualty, like an old bull full of banderillas, shaking
his head and feinting with what is left of his strength and hoping to
hit something with his horns although half blind with frustration and
rage. He doesn´t know what´s going on half the time. He has already
begun writing his attack before he has read and understood the first
line of the post, while invariably misinterpreting the motives or
intentions of the poster.

All a bit bloody pathetic really.

My third attempt at writing this, and it seems no better than the
first two. I don´t suppose it matters much anyway, and I do have the
time at least. I am even getting bored with the bloody website
now..................

Bugger it.

Did you ever wonder why you seem to be the (new) target of the most
incoming fire, as it were? Speaking only for myself, it's 90-something
percent over-the-top shtick, but I'll grant that some of what comes from
some quarters _seems_ to be loaded with real malice. But since I can't
speak for those authors as to their actual feelings, I won't. OTOH,
_you_ seem to produce more hate-filled, truly venomous spew than just
about anyone here OR you come off as a pompous clown whose every opinion
ought to be worshipped by all as a nugget of pure, shining wisdom. IOW,
you're begging for a nonstop gigging in a fishcamp/hunting camp/barroom
place like ROFF.

Maybe you haven't been lucky enough to be a part of any real-life groups
of guys (and the occasional gal) that gather to fish and hunt and
generally be "guys," at least for a time. You know - fish or hunt,
drink, have a side of sirloin with their ribeye after a fish or
backstrap appetizer, drink, smoke cigars, drink and cuss and fart
without so much as the hint of a feminine look that says "you BETTER
excuse yourself now, mister..." If so, that's a shame, but I can tell
you from 25 years of thankfully near-constant experience with such, at
least as far as the general bull****ting goes, it's about par for the
(normal) course. If we (the real-life groups, IAC) didn't want at least
a temporary respite from being serious adults with jobs, businesses,
clients, wives, girlfriends, children, leaking plumbing, lawns to mow,
and other assorted responsibilities, we wouldn't be at the ****ing
camp/on the boat/etc. And everyone in these various overlapping groups,
sooner or later, is going to do something that strikes folks as worthy
of a little bit of gigging, and in a friendly way, that person is gonna
get gigged. If they act like an asshole about it, it's only going to
draw more. Speaking only for myself, I don't _hate_ anyone around here -
heck, I'd happily share a stream, a cockpit, a hunting camp fire or a
drink with many, even most, of the goofballs and reprobates that share
this virtual campfire.

And something in your post that particularly stood out to me is your
description of Dave as an "old bull..." While I'd agree that such a
description does seem to fit him at time, frankly, I think that
description also fits you. You seem hellbent on "impressing" all here
with your knowledge and what a superior specimen you are. I would offer
that if you simply added you opinion to the often-large pile and were
done with it unless (seriously) asked for more information - like most
here do - you'd have a much easier time of it. As to impressing anyone
here, I doubt _anyone_ here stands much of a chance on becoming crowned
the King of ROFF, simply because there are too many folks here that, at
least as far as their own fishing happiness goes, know their ****. And
a good many could teach you (and/or others) a trick or three. Plus, the
regulars aren't here for fishing lessons, they are here for the
bull****ting around the campfire, and interrupting the punchline of a
good dirty joke to instruct folks on proper etiquette ain't gonna win
friends and influence people.

As 'tripper said, albeit at the wrong time, grow up. Don't take things
so seriously. Sure, when appropriate, put down your cocktail and be
serious, but not so much that you can't have some real fun.

HTH,
R

The most lucid and cogent post you have ever posted, IMMHO.

Thanks!

Op

TR
 

On Nov 20, 11:39 pm, Mike wrote:
On 21 Nov, 05:34, Mike wrote:

Or would you like to continue flogging a dead dog, dumbo?

MC

Here you go LaCourse, just for you;

http://media.putfile.com/TownGmike

I don´t dance to anybody else´s tune LaCourse, I sing and play my own.

MC

TownGmike Sweet! Very nice and melodic and smooth in the baratone.
Well done Mike,

Your pal,

Tim

TR
 

On 22 Nov, 17:30, Halfordian Golfer wrote:
On Nov 20, 11:39 pm, Mike wrote:

On 21 Nov, 05:34, Mike wrote:

Or would you like to continue flogging a dead dog, dumbo?

MC

Here you go LaCourse, just for you;

http://media.putfile.com/TownGmike

I don´t dance to anybody else´s tune LaCourse, I sing and play my own.

TR
 

On Nov 23, 12:56 am, Mike wrote:
On 22 Nov, 17:30, Halfordian Golfer wrote:





On Nov 20, 11:39 pm, Mike wrote:

On 21 Nov, 05:34, Mike wrote:

Or would you like to continue flogging a dead dog, dumbo?

MC

Here you go LaCourse, just for you;

http://media.putfile.com/TownGmike

I don´t dance to anybody else´s tune LaCourse, I sing and play my own.

MC

TownGmike Sweet! Very nice and melodic and smooth in the baratone.
Well done Mike,

Your pal,

Tim

Very nice of you to say so, thanks. Obviously not a folk style which
will find universal approval of course. Perhaps you might like the
following. It tells the tale of a fox hunt not far from my home, which
now no longer exists, as the valley concerned was flooded to build a
dam;

http://media.putfile.com/KielderMikeAC

TL
MC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Damn nice song! Did you sing all the harmonies too?

--riverman

TR
 

On 22 Nov, 18:14, riverman wrote:
On Nov 23, 12:56 am, Mike wrote:

On 22 Nov, 17:30, Halfordian Golfer wrote:

On Nov 20, 11:39 pm, Mike wrote:

On 21 Nov, 05:34, Mike wrote:

Or would you like to continue flogging a dead dog, dumbo?

MC

Here you go LaCourse, just for you;

http://media.putfile.com/TownGmike

I don´t dance to anybody else´s tune LaCourse, I sing and play my own.

MC

TownGmike Sweet! Very nice and melodic and smooth in the baratone.
Well done Mike,

Your pal,

Tim

Very nice of you to say so, thanks. Obviously not a folk style which
will find universal approval of course. Perhaps you might like the
following. It tells the tale of a fox hunt not far from my home, which
now no longer exists, as the valley concerned was flooded to build a
dam;

http://media.putfile.com/KielderMikeAC

TL
MC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Damn nice song! Did you sing all the harmonies too?

--riverman

No, those are live recordings on stage at the Jahnhalle, the audience
knew we were recording and apart from the odd cough or so, they were
absolutely silenjt. That was the initial line up of Alloy. Myself,
Heinz Juergen Mike, and Juergen Lange.

I know you play a really mean ( in the best possible sense! :)
Guitar. Any recordings? I really would like to hear something from
you again, I remember being surprised, ( more or less pleasantly! :) ,
when you picked up my guitar, and could play better than I could!

( I can still cast better !!! :) )

TL
MC

TR
 

On Nov 22, 6:10 am, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:58:11 -0800 (PST), Mike





wrote:
On 22 Nov, 03:24, daytripper wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:59:16 -0800 (PST), Mike
wrote:
[...]

I don´t know what Mr.Tatosian is going to do, but I definitely will
not reply to you again, it makes me feel dirty.

MC

It would go a long way to restoring some semblance of civilization here if you
would simply hold to that commitment, Mike...

Cheers

/daytripper

Well, it´s an interesting theory, but I don´t think you will ever
restore "civilisation" here, as per definition, it requires people to
be civil, and several here gave up any semblance of that long ago, and
some were never privy to its niceties at all. The Ricks and Oakies.
Would you fish with such? I wouldn´t.

Regardless of what one posts, one must expect a sniper or some other
well-wisher to start the insults and rubbish. It´s like trying to
navigate a minefield blindfolded while giving a lecture to
recalcitrant schoolboys. One must weigh every single word with the
utmost care, and it still does no good.

Once upon a time this place worked reasonably well, because the checks
and balances, such as they were, still operated on the basis of mutual
respect and a certain peer pressure was evident. That has not been the
case for a long time. It actually started in earnest with Gehrke.
There is no way now even to shame some people into behaving in a civil
manner. They obviously view this place as some sort of personal
playground, where they may simply do as they like, without let or
hindrance. Unfortunately, that is also true. Without self control,
there is no control.

To be truthful, the only reason I am still here, is because I do not
wish to give anybody the satisfaction of saying I left in a snit or
some equally ridiculous crap. I will never bow down to liars, cowards,
and assholes. Also, just to make it clear, I am not refraining from
replying to LaCourse, Fortenberry, or that total ****bag Dean, because
it is the civil thing to do, I am doing it because anything else is
totally pointless. One might as well try to converse with a retarded
five year old in a tantrum, or a common house brick.

There is virtually no joy here any more, and it is also quite boring.
That is why it will just slide away quietly, and nobody will miss it
much. Those of you who are friends outside this group will doubtless
remain so, and that is fine. But this group is doomed as a going
concern. It was doomed the first time somebody abused another member
in an unforgivable manner, and nobody said anything. This has happened
countless times in the meantime, and nothing much was done. You lost
the best "bouncer" you had when Cyli passed. Her presence, and
occasionally her words, still held sway over even the worst offenders.
There is now nothing at all, no matter how low, evil, and nasty, some
would not say in the hope of damaging somebody they hate and perceive
to be an enemy. They HATE somebody, who at least originally, came here
because of a common interest, maybe even the love of fly-fishing. What
a disgusting perversion.

It all ceased to be about fishing a long time ago as well.

You don´t really want to associate with ****bags like Dean do you? He
is a nasty ******* because he enjoys being a nasty *******, and he
will never change.Neither will Fortenberry, he will continue to attack
and denigrate people who disagree with him, convinced beyond any
possible doubt that he is right, and therefore has the right to use
any means to further or impose his views on others. LaCourse is just
an unfortunate casualty, like an old bull full of banderillas, shaking
his head and feinting with what is left of his strength and hoping to
hit something with his horns although half blind with frustration and
rage. He doesn´t know what´s going on half the time. He has already
begun writing his attack before he has read and understood the first
line of the post, while invariably misinterpreting the motives or
intentions of the poster.

All a bit bloody pathetic really.

My third attempt at writing this, and it seems no better than the
first two. I don´t suppose it matters much anyway, and I do have the
time at least. I am even getting bored with the bloody website
now..................

Bugger it.

Did you ever wonder why you seem to be the (new) target of the most
incoming fire, as it were? Speaking only for myself, it's 90-something
percent over-the-top shtick, but I'll grant that some of what comes from
some quarters _seems_ to be loaded with real malice. But since I can't
speak for those authors as to their actual feelings, I won't. OTOH,
_you_ seem to produce more hate-filled, truly venomous spew than just
about anyone here OR you come off as a pompous clown whose every opinion
ought to be worshipped by all as a nugget of pure, shining wisdom. IOW,
you're begging for a nonstop gigging in a fishcamp/hunting camp/barroom
place like ROFF.

Maybe you haven't been lucky enough to be a part of any real-life groups
of guys (and the occasional gal) that gather to fish and hunt and
generally be "guys," at least for a time. You know - fish or hunt,
drink, have a side of sirloin with their ribeye after a fish or
backstrap appetizer, drink, smoke cigars, drink and cuss and fart
without so much as the hint of a feminine look that says "you BETTER
excuse yourself now, mister..." If so, that's a shame, but I can tell
you from 25 years of thankfully near-constant experience with such, at
least as far as the general bull****ting goes, it's about par for the
(normal) course. If we (the real-life groups, IAC) didn't want at least
a temporary respite from being serious adults with jobs, businesses,
clients, wives, girlfriends, children, leaking plumbing, lawns to mow,
and other assorted responsibilities, we wouldn't be at the ****ing
camp/on the boat/etc. And everyone in these various overlapping groups,
sooner or later, is going to do something that strikes folks as worthy
of a little bit of gigging, and in a friendly way, that person is gonna
get gigged. If they act like an asshole about it, it's only going to
draw more. Speaking only for myself, I don't _hate_ anyone around here -
heck, I'd happily share a stream, a cockpit, a hunting camp fire or a
drink with many, even most, of the goofballs and reprobates that share
this virtual campfire.

And something in your post that particularly stood out to me is your
description of Dave as an "old bull..." While I'd agree that such a
description does seem to fit him at time, frankly, I think that
description also fits you. You seem hellbent on "impressing" all here
with your knowledge and what a superior specimen you are. I would offer
that if you simply added you opinion to the often-large pile and were
done with it unless (seriously) asked for more information - like most
here do - you'd have a much easier time of it. As to impressing anyone
here, I doubt _anyone_ here stands much of a chance on becoming crowned
the King of ROFF, simply because there are too many folks here that, at
least as far as their own fishing happiness goes, know their ****. And
a good many could teach you (and/or others) a trick or three. Plus, the
regulars aren't here for fishing lessons, they are here for the
bull****ting around the campfire, and interrupting the punchline of a
good dirty joke to instruct folks on proper etiquette ain't gonna win
friends and influence people.

As 'tripper said, albeit at the wrong time, grow up. Don't take things
so seriously. Sure, when appropriate, put down your cocktail and be
serious, but not so much that you can't have some real fun.

HTH,
R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well said, but your feeding ice cream to a pig.

TR
 

On 22 Nov, 18:47, BJ Conner wrote:
On Nov 22, 6:10 am, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:58:11 -0800 (PST), Mike

wrote:
On 22 Nov, 03:24, daytripper wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:59:16 -0800 (PST), Mike
wrote:
[...]

I don´t know what Mr.Tatosian is going to do, but I definitely will
not reply to you again, it makes me feel dirty.

MC

It would go a long way to restoring some semblance of civilization here if you
would simply hold to that commitment, Mike...

Cheers

/daytripper

Well, it´s an interesting theory, but I don´t think you will ever
restore "civilisation" here, as per definition, it requires people to
be civil, and several here gave up any semblance of that long ago, and
some were never privy to its niceties at all. The Ricks and Oakies.
Would you fish with such? I wouldn´t.

Regardless of what one posts, one must expect a sniper or some other
well-wisher to start the insults and rubbish. It´s like trying to
navigate a minefield blindfolded while giving a lecture to
recalcitrant schoolboys. One must weigh every single word with the
utmost care, and it still does no good.

Once upon a time this place worked reasonably well, because the checks
and balances, such as they were, still operated on the basis of mutual
respect and a certain peer pressure was evident. That has not been the
case for a long time. It actually started in earnest with Gehrke.
There is no way now even to shame some people into behaving in a civil
manner. They obviously view this place as some sort of personal
playground, where they may simply do as they like, without let or
hindrance. Unfortunately, that is also true. Without self control,
there is no control.

To be truthful, the only reason I am still here, is because I do not
wish to give anybody the satisfaction of saying I left in a snit or
some equally ridiculous crap. I will never bow down to liars, cowards,
and assholes. Also, just to make it clear, I am not refraining from
replying to LaCourse, Fortenberry, or that total ****bag Dean, because
it is the civil thing to do, I am doing it because anything else is
totally pointless. One might as well try to converse with a retarded
five year old in a tantrum, or a common house brick.

There is virtually no joy here any more, and it is also quite boring.
That is why it will just slide away quietly, and nobody will miss it
much. Those of you who are friends outside this group will doubtless
remain so, and that is fine. But this group is doomed as a going
concern. It was doomed the first time somebody abused another member
in an unforgivable manner, and nobody said anything. This has happened
countless times in the meantime, and nothing much was done. You lost
the best "bouncer" you had when Cyli passed. Her presence, and
occasionally her words, still held sway over even the worst offenders.
There is now nothing at all, no matter how low, evil, and nasty, some
would not say in the hope of damaging somebody they hate and perceive
to be an enemy. They HATE somebody, who at least originally, came here
because of a common interest, maybe even the love of fly-fishing. What
a disgusting perversion.

It all ceased to be about fishing a long time ago as well.

You don´t really want to associate with ****bags like Dean do you? He
is a nasty ******* because he enjoys being a nasty *******, and he
will never change.Neither will Fortenberry, he will continue to attack
and denigrate people who disagree with him, convinced beyond any
possible doubt that he is right, and therefore has the right to use
any means to further or impose his views on others. LaCourse is just
an unfortunate casualty, like an old bull full of banderillas, shaking
his head and feinting with what is left of his strength and hoping to
hit something with his horns although half blind with frustration and
rage. He doesn´t know what´s going on half the time. He has already
begun writing his attack before he has read and understood the first
line of the post, while invariably misinterpreting the motives or
intentions of the poster.

All a bit bloody pathetic really.

My third attempt at writing this, and it seems no better than the
first two. I don´t suppose it matters much anyway, and I do have the
time at least. I am even getting bored with the bloody website
now..................

Bugger it.

Did you ever wonder why you seem to be the (new) target of the most
incoming fire, as it were? Speaking only for myself, it's 90-something
percent over-the-top shtick, but I'll grant that some of what comes from
some quarters _seems_ to be loaded with real malice. But since I can't
speak for those authors as to their actual feelings, I won't. OTOH,
_you_ seem to produce more hate-filled, truly venomous spew than just
about anyone here OR you come off as a pompous clown whose every opinion
ought to be worshipped by all as a nugget of pure, shining wisdom. IOW,
you're begging for a nonstop gigging in a fishcamp/hunting camp/barroom
place like ROFF.

Maybe you haven't been lucky enough to be a part of any real-life groups
of guys (and the occasional gal) that gather to fish and hunt and
generally be "guys," at least for a time. You know - fish or hunt,
drink, have a side of sirloin with their ribeye after a fish or
backstrap appetizer, drink, smoke cigars, drink and cuss and fart
without so much as the hint of a feminine look that says "you BETTER
excuse yourself now, mister..." If so, that's a shame, but I can tell
you from 25 years of thankfully near-constant experience with such, at
least as far as the general bull****ting goes, it's about par for the
(normal) course. If we (the real-life groups, IAC) didn't want at least
a temporary respite from being serious adults with jobs, businesses,
clients, wives, girlfriends, children, leaking plumbing, lawns to mow,
and other assorted responsibilities, we wouldn't be at the ****ing
camp/on the boat/etc. And everyone in these various overlapping groups,
sooner or later, is going to do something that strikes folks as worthy
of a little bit of gigging, and in a friendly way, that person is gonna
get gigged. If they act like an asshole about it, it's only going to
draw more. Speaking only for myself, I don't _hate_ anyone around here -
heck, I'd happily share a stream, a cockpit, a hunting camp fire or a
drink with many, even most, of the goofballs and reprobates that share
this virtual campfire.

And something in your post that particularly stood out to me is your
description of Dave as an "old bull..." While I'd agree that such a
description does seem to fit him at time, frankly, I think that
description also fits you. You seem hellbent on "impressing" all here
with your knowledge and what a superior specimen you are. I would offer
that if you simply added you opinion to the often-large pile and were
done with it unless (seriously) asked for more information - like most
here do - you'd have a much easier time of it. As to impressing anyone
here, I doubt _anyone_ here stands much of a chance on becoming crowned
the King of ROFF, simply because there are too many folks here that, at
least as far as their own fishing happiness goes, know their ****. And
a good many could teach you (and/or others) a trick or three. Plus, the
regulars aren't here for fishing lessons, they are here for the
bull****ting around the campfire, and interrupting the punchline of a
good dirty joke to instruct folks on proper etiquette ain't gonna win
friends and influence people.

As 'tripper said, albeit at the wrong time, grow up. Don't take things
so seriously. Sure, when appropriate, put down your cocktail and be
serious, but not so much that you can't have some real fun.

HTH,
R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well said, but your feeding ice cream to a pig.

Would you like another scoop? Chocolate or Vanilla?

MC