Willie and Wesley and the boys...
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
With money available for home mortgages, those NOW in the
red because of bad Freddy and Fannie (Thanks to Barney and Dodd), can
pay for their homes by refinancing them at a payment they can afford.

What!!? You said, in another thread that Fannie and Freddie(at the behest of
Dodd and Frank) had folks buying $400,000 homes with small incomes. You can
re-write the interest all you want, but those folks will NEVER be able to
pay off those loans, unless the rate is zero, and the principal is cut.
Start cutting principal amounts and see how eager banks are to loan money.

Also, those in the market for a new home will put carpenters,
electricians, heavy equipment operators, plumbers, etc back to work.


sure, loads of folks will be eager to invest in a new home when they aren't
certain they will even have a job in a year or two.

Uh, when did the housing **** hit the fan? Can you tell me? It was
right after Barney, Dodd, Omama, et al came into power in the 06
elections. Check out the economy before 06. Hell, I have never been
richer than I was in the summer of 06, neither have my children or
their children.

this paragraph is just plain ignorant. You weren't richer, in any way other
than ON PAPER. And, you can thank a host of 'leaders', from either party,
for allowing a grotesque bubble or collection of economic bubbles to build.
It was an illusion, David, don't you freaking get it?


None of this "spending spree" will amount to immediated jobs, not this
week, not next, perhaps not until a year from now. Everyone is so
much in a hurry to pass this bill NOW because it is so URGENT, yet
none of the money will go where it is needed.

the urgency lies in the need for immediate, positive action to arrest a
free-fall in public confidence in the economy, which is feeding a massive
dropoff in spending, leading to more layoffs, more business failures, and
then even lower confidence. The idea of our leaders doing absolutely
nothing(as you seem to advocate) will push this nation over a cliff.
No! You stimulate an economy by cutting back on spending, and that
starts with tax cuts.

standard Reaganomics......which has, by now, proven to be an absolute
failure. All it does is create speculative bubbles, push the poor to even
poorer levels and benefit a handful of the citizenry. Another round or two
of that bull****, and you can count on a wholesale revolution.

The people who produce the jobs (my daughter and
her husband, for example) need tax cuts, not more taxes.

their taxes are NOT GOING UP! Can't you read the bill, or do you simply wish
to base your opinion on BS from the far right?



Ah, but I DO get it. "Maybe" being the operative word. MAYBE it
don't/won't. A new museum in Las Vegas is NOT going to produce any
jobs in Pennsylvania or Massachusetts.

trust me, PA and Massachusetts will get their fair share of the pie.


But, making MONEY available to small business entrepreneurs, to other
businesses that have laid off people, to allow the working class to
keep more of the money they earn so that they can *spend* it, or save
it will help us recover.

what kind of imbecile business owner is going to hire people back when no
one is buying any products or services?? Giving a tax break, when income is
zero, to a business is just a smokescreen that accomplishes nothing.


I wish the hell I could get a loan to buy a Bugatti
Veyron (only a mill and a half), drive it for a few months and then
have Freddie or Fannie pick up the payments. Sounds good to me. Hell,
I would gladly spend $10,000 to drive that little sucker for a few
months. And then the taxpayers could pick up the bill.

yet, this is exactly what you proposed at the outset of this post, isn't it?

Solve the problem from where it started, Tom.

I'd love to, but you cannot solve sheer greed after it has been appeased for
28 years, since Reagan raised it to holy grail status. Best to hope the
train wreck it led to can be averted or lessened in severity.

Tom

Willie and Wesley and the boys...
 

Tom Littleton wrote:
"Dave LaCourse"
No! You stimulate an economy by cutting back on spending, and that
starts with tax cuts.

standard Reaganomics......which has, by now, proven to be an absolute
failure. ...

And there is the whole thing in a nutshell. This is precisely why Obama
needs to say "Screw You, I Won" to the GOP obstructionists in Congress.

I've heard the GOP being compared to the gawkers milling around the
house that's on fire deliberately obstructing the firemen. Supply-side
economics is, was, and always will be wrongheaded. Anyone who can't see
that by now is just plain blinded by ideology and ignorance.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Willie and Wesley and the boys...
 

hussein the uniter, ea?


This is precisely why Obama
needs to say "Screw You, I Won"

Willie and Wesley and the boys...
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
? Supply-side
economics is, was, and always will be wrongheaded. Anyone who can't see
that by now is just plain blinded by ideology and ignorance.

it goes deeper than even that, Ken. Breaking the hold on some folks of the
Cult of Reagan will be slow process. Ronnie Raygun made his terms a success
by preaching a sermon of self-centered greed (of which trickle-down
economics plays a part) that led the nation down a very wrong path. It
sells, in large part, because it appeals to the human nature in many, if not
most of us. Yet, while guys like David blame the unravelling of the economy
on Dodd and Frank wanting folks to be able to buy houses, the ability of the
underfunded to purchase a home was directly a result of an unregulated
market in mortgage securities, which freed lenders from having to actually
worry about repayment, once they stuck some other poor suckers(like, say,
pensioners and municipalities) with the IOU. As RDean himself has pointed
out, this same set of principles(or lack thereof) has caused the oddball
fluctuation of oil prices, due to an unregulated commodities market. All of
this lack of regulation, lack of oversight and unbridled greed can rightly
be seen as the true legacy of Ronald Reagan.
Tom

Willie and Wesley and the boys...
 

"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
...
hussein the uniter, ea?


uniting everyone but the complete assholes isn't a bad thing, really.
Tom

Willie and Wesley and the boys...
 

tough week for hussein...it takes a while to fig out
how washington works......did he ever find his birth
docs?

---------snip-------------------
After weeks of losing a public-relations fight with Republicans,
Obama's
aides considered any forward movement of Obama's legislation a
victory
toward fixing the economic crisis that has left 3.6 million Americans
without jobs.

Willie and Wesley and the boys...
 

classy operation...

" A street artist famous for his red, white and blue "Hope" posters
of
Hussein Obama has been arrested on warrants accusing him of tagging
property with graffiti, police said Saturday"

Willie and Wesley and the boys...
 

"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
...
tough week for hussein...it takes a while to fig out
how washington works.

it takes anyone a while to figure out how to be an effective President. You
can't possibly be suggesting that McCain would have handled the present
situation any better? Hell, that old boy would have been near death before
taking the oath, had he actually spent time thinking about the problems
Obama is actively dealing with. Thank goodness we got the President we
needed elected!!!
Tom

Willie and Wesley and the boys...
 

"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
...
" A street artist famous for his red, white and blue "Hope" posters
of
Hussein Obama has been arrested on warrants accusing him of tagging
property with graffiti, police said Saturday"

Fairley has been a known graffiti artist for years. His "Giant" tags have
appeared around the country, and yes, he has gotten arrested a few times for
it. Art is subversive, sometimes great art is truly subversive. Get over it.
Tom

Willie and Wesley and the boys...
 

On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:31:38 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:


"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
.. .
With money available for home mortgages, those NOW in the
red because of bad Freddy and Fannie (Thanks to Barney and Dodd), can
pay for their homes by refinancing them at a payment they can afford.

What!!? You said, in another thread that Fannie and Freddie(at the behest of
Dodd and Frank) had folks buying $400,000 homes with small incomes. You can
re-write the interest all you want, but those folks will NEVER be able to
pay off those loans, unless the rate is zero, and the principal is cut.
Start cutting principal amounts and see how eager banks are to loan money.

Also, those in the market for a new home will put carpenters,
electricians, heavy equipment operators, plumbers, etc back to work.


sure, loads of folks will be eager to invest in a new home when they aren't
certain they will even have a job in a year or two.

Tom, the housing market is down because there is no money. And the
housing **** hit the fan in 2006.

Uh, when did the housing **** hit the fan? Can you tell me? It was
right after Barney, Dodd, Omama, et al came into power in the 06
elections. Check out the economy before 06. Hell, I have never been
richer than I was in the summer of 06, neither have my children or
their children.

this paragraph is just plain ignorant. You weren't richer, in any way other
than ON PAPER. And, you can thank a host of 'leaders', from either party,
for allowing a grotesque bubble or collection of economic bubbles to build.
It was an illusion, David, don't you freaking get it?

Well, hell, Tom, our wealth is *always* on paper, even if we have
invested in nothing but gold or silver. Now, if you had that gold or
silver in your position, that would be different. Like I said, my
wealth reached its zenith in 2006. My house has lost value (thanks,
Barney), the stock market hasn't been very good, and people started
losing their houses a year after they were given unbelievable loans by
Freddie and Fannie.


None of this "spending spree" will amount to immediated jobs, not this
week, not next, perhaps not until a year from now. Everyone is so
much in a hurry to pass this bill NOW because it is so URGENT, yet
none of the money will go where it is needed.

the urgency lies in the need for immediate, positive action to arrest a
free-fall in public confidence in the economy, which is feeding a massive
dropoff in spending, leading to more layoffs, more business failures, and
then even lower confidence. The idea of our leaders doing absolutely
nothing(as you seem to advocate) will push this nation over a cliff.

I agree that it is urgent to pass a stimulus package, Tom, but this
one ain't it. Pelosi, Reid, and their bandits have added to much pork
to it. Once, just once, I would like to see Congress pass a bill
without any pork in it. I do not advocate doing nothing. I say solve
the problem from whence it came - MONEY. If a new mortgage with the
same rate but over a longer period was given to the folks that Freddie
and Fannie snagged, this wouldn't have happened. Give those folks the
money to save their homes. Give the money so that others can invest
in new homes or new businesses. When, or when, are you Democrat
liberals going to get rid of Pelosi and Reid. They have a lower
popularity rating than Bush at his worse. No one thinks they are
doing a good job, unless you live if SF or Nevada.

No! You stimulate an economy by cutting back on spending, and that
starts with tax cuts.

standard Reaganomics......which has, by now, proven to be an absolute
failure. All it does is create speculative bubbles, push the poor to even
poorer levels and benefit a handful of the citizenry. Another round or two
of that bull****, and you can count on a wholesale revolution.

Reaganomics? ****, boy, you aren't old enough to remember JFK, are
you? I voted for the man and the very FIRST thing he did was ramrod a
tax cut through Congress, and an economy of malaise once again began
to grow. Tax cuts, money put back into the working people of this
country, means more money spent, and means more money in governments'
coffers.

The people who produce the jobs (my daughter and
her husband, for example) need tax cuts, not more taxes.

their taxes are NOT GOING UP! Can't you read the bill, or do you simply wish
to base your opinion on BS from the far right?

Their taxes will go up. That is a given, regardless what you say.
They went up during Clinton and they laid off people. They HIRED
people five or so years ago.




Ah, but I DO get it. "Maybe" being the operative word. MAYBE it
don't/won't. A new museum in Las Vegas is NOT going to produce any
jobs in Pennsylvania or Massachusetts.

trust me, PA and Massachusetts will get their fair share of the pie.

Riiiiiiight. I have no intentions of going to Neveda to work in as
museum, and I'm too old to lay sod.


But, making MONEY available to small business entrepreneurs, to other
businesses that have laid off people, to allow the working class to
keep more of the money they earn so that they can *spend* it, or save
it will help us recover.

what kind of imbecile business owner is going to hire people back when no
one is buying any products or services?? Giving a tax break, when income is
zero, to a business is just a smokescreen that accomplishes nothing.

My daughter and her husband hired people a few years ago. They laid
off people after Clinton raised taxes. Most of the employers in our
country are small businessmen. Bruce runs/owns a super market. His
business isn't zero. My daughter runs a gift shop. Her business is
doing just fine - could be better, but she is nowhere near going
under. Both of these people *employ* people. THEY'RE the ones that
produce jobs, not government.


I wish the hell I could get a loan to buy a Bugatti
Veyron (only a mill and a half), drive it for a few months and then
have Freddie or Fannie pick up the payments. Sounds good to me. Hell,
I would gladly spend $10,000 to drive that little sucker for a few
months. And then the taxpayers could pick up the bill.

yet, this is exactly what you proposed at the outset of this post, isn't it?

You miss the point, Tom. The above is what Freddie and Fannie did
(with housing) while Barney and Dodd said there was nothing wrong. As
early as 2006, people were complaining about F and F and the bad loans
they were making. If those folks could have their loans rewritten so
that instead of paying it off at XXXX amount each month for 30 years,
they pay less, but for 40 years. It could save some of them.

Solve the problem from where it started, Tom.

I'd love to, but you cannot solve sheer greed after it has been appeased for
28 years, since Reagan raised it to holy grail status. Best to hope the
train wreck it led to can be averted or lessened in severity.

Again, horse caca. The problem started when no oversight by Barney
and Dodd on Freddie and Fannie. They were making loans that the
people couldn't pay back, but they wanted these people to have a piece
of the American pie, their own home. The bad loans started this whole
debacle, nor Reagan. And you have the gall to suggest greed without
naming Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, and Barney? Un****inbelievable.

Dave


Tom