No fish
 

On 2009-09-17 15:28:59 -0400, Bill Grey said:


Sorry to interrupt - carry on arguing.

LOL. Who loves ya, Billy?

d;o)

No fish
 

In message 2009091721144743658-dplacourse@aolcom, David LaCourse
writes
On 2009-09-17 15:28:59 -0400, Bill Grey said:

Sorry to interrupt - carry on arguing.

LOL. Who loves ya, Billy?

d;o)





Speaking in the vernacular.......... "Aw shucks" :-)
--
Bill Grey

No fish
 

On Sep 17, 1:24*pm, Todd wrote:

Conan The Librarian wrote:

* *Where did I call you names?

"I know right-wingers (especially your false idol, Rush)"
Mild name calling, but still name calling. *

Are you not a right-winger?

* *Actually, all the things you describe very closely approach the
blind devotion and zeal shown by many religious people. *Mindless
devotion to any cause is dangerous.

Depends on what their devotion is to. *Mindless devotion to being
nice to other people: don't see the problem. *Some people
react rather badly to others being nice to them.

Mindless *anything* is a problem. Whether it's mindless devotion
to a radio talk show host, mindless following of a supreme being that
by its very nature is unknowable, or mindless praying to a holy tree
frog.

* *It's mighty presumptuous of you to assume so. *Both of my parents
were agnostic. *They didn't teach me to believe in a god, but they
taught me to value and respect others as I do myself.

Keep going back. *They got it from somewhere. *For instance:
"they taught me to value and respect others as I do myself"
would be traced back to Jesus' teaching: whatsoever you would
have others do unto you, do unto them. *Other religions
have similar teaching. So keep digging.

Again with the presumptions. I know my family's history and you
don't. My dad was born in Cuba. His parents were agnostic. My mom's
dad was German. He was an atheist. Her mom was not affiliated with
any religion.

Most *societies* have similar teaching. That's how they flourish.

I know you won't like this, but what the heck: Isn't it possible
that the folks who wrote the bible did nothing more than codify what
was already accepted as essential for the survival of their society?
That maybe this Jesus chap was just a good medium to get across these
ideas?


Chuck Vance

No fish
 

On Sep 17, 12:22*pm, Todd wrote:

...When you get to pick and choose what your
morality is, man's inhumanity to man can be a thing to
behold.

Yeah, ask a Cathar.

And, dude, be respectful of others beliefs and opinions.
You are a fisherman, which by definition, means you
are suppose to be a "nice guy".

Dumbass.

g.

No fish
 

Bill Grey wrote:

While you guys are still chewing the fat, I went fishing yesterday -
only the second time this year. It was to a small put and take fishery
fishing for stocked Rainbow trout.

Fishing with a stiff NE wind blowing from behind me, I managed to bag 4
Rainbows the largest was just over 4 lbs and the total bag weighed 15 lbs.

They were caught on a small (by our standards Montana nymph.)

Awesome! What size and style of hook did you use?

No fish
 

In message , Todd writes
Bill Grey wrote:

While you guys are still chewing the fat, I went fishing yesterday -
only the second time this year. It was to a small put and take
fishery fishing for stocked Rainbow trout.
Fishing with a stiff NE wind blowing from behind me, I managed to
bag 4 Rainbows the largest was just over 4 lbs and the total bag
weighed 15 lbs.
They were caught on a small (by our standards Montana nymph.)

Awesome! What size and style of hook did you use?

I'm not sure - it was a fly that's been in my box for a few years.
Probably size 12 . I'm not sure how this relates to your idea of hook
sizes.

We tend to tie flies on larger hooks when fishing for stocked Rainbows.
--
Bill Grey

No fish
 

Bill Grey wrote:
In message , Todd writes
Bill Grey wrote:

While you guys are still chewing the fat, I went fishing yesterday -
only the second time this year. It was to a small put and take
fishery fishing for stocked Rainbow trout.
Fishing with a stiff NE wind blowing from behind me, I managed to
bag 4 Rainbows the largest was just over 4 lbs and the total bag
weighed 15 lbs.
They were caught on a small (by our standards Montana nymph.)

Awesome! What size and style of hook did you use?

I'm not sure - it was a fly that's been in my box for a few years.
Probably size 12 . I'm not sure how this relates to your idea of hook
sizes.

We tend to tie flies on larger hooks when fishing for stocked Rainbows.

Actually, hook and shank. My "theory" is that a trout will stray
farther from his feeding lie based on the food value of what he is
chasing. In other words, if the fly is bigger, you don't have to be
such a good shot. If the fly is smaller, say a midge, you have to
hit the trout on the nose to get him to eat it. My "theory".

On the other hand, if the fly is too large, you risk the trout
attacking it as it would a minnow: from the side and shaking it
in his mouth. In which case, unless you gaff him, you can never
hook him. I can verify this from my own personal experience.

My "TMC 200BL. size: 12" seems to be the perfect size for
my weird upside down stones.

I have also never caught a single fish on a bead head fly
either. I have never caught so many fish as the day I
tossed all my bead headed flies in the trash. My "thoery":
head down, tail up is debris; head down, tail down, belly up is
a stone in catastrophic drift.

Another "theory" of mine: you have ~ 3/4 of a second to
react to a strike before the trout's food/debris instinct
spits your fly out. And a fly is always "debris".
Okay, now I am babbling on.

I need to go fishing.

-T

No fish
 

In message , Todd writes
Bill Grey wrote:
In message , Todd writes
Bill Grey wrote:

While you guys are still chewing the fat, I went fishing yesterday
only the second time this year. It was to a small put and take
fishery fishing for stocked Rainbow trout.
Fishing with a stiff NE wind blowing from behind me, I managed to
bag 4 Rainbows the largest was just over 4 lbs and the total bag
weighed 15 lbs.
They were caught on a small (by our standards Montana nymph.)

Awesome! What size and style of hook did you use?
I'm not sure - it was a fly that's been in my box for a few years.
Probably size 12 . I'm not sure how this relates to your idea of hook
sizes.
We tend to tie flies on larger hooks when fishing for stocked
Rainbows.

Actually, hook and shank. My "theory" is that a trout will stray
farther from his feeding lie based on the food value of what he is
chasing. In other words, if the fly is bigger, you don't have to be
such a good shot. If the fly is smaller, say a midge, you have to
hit the trout on the nose to get him to eat it. My "theory".

On the other hand, if the fly is too large, you risk the trout
attacking it as it would a minnow: from the side and shaking it
in his mouth. In which case, unless you gaff him, you can never
hook him. I can verify this from my own personal experience.

My "TMC 200BL. size: 12" seems to be the perfect size for
my weird upside down stones.

I have also never caught a single fish on a bead head fly
either. I have never caught so many fish as the day I
tossed all my bead headed flies in the trash. My "thoery":
head down, tail up is debris; head down, tail down, belly up is
a stone in catastrophic drift.

Another "theory" of mine: you have ~ 3/4 of a second to
react to a strike before the trout's food/debris instinct
spits your fly out. And a fly is always "debris".
Okay, now I am babbling on.

I need to go fishing.

-T

Well you have your theories, but remember you are fishing in the USA I'm
in the UK. The fishing styles are totally different. I wasn't fishing a
stream - I was fishing a small lake where the stocked fish were there
for the taking.

Your casting doesn't have to be accurate - as long as you hit the pond
you're doing fine. Of course that is an exaggeration - I was casting
about 70 feet with an intermediate #8 line and allowing the fly to sink
then slowly retrieving. It was up to the trout to do the work of taking
the fly - and on my day they did.

The bead-headed flies sink well and it's on the bottom they do the
attracting.

I have to admit, there isn't a lot of skill required, - I can cast quite
well and I do know how to tempt the fish, but they are not wild fish as
you get in the rivers. The were all full tailed good fighters.
Rainbows in these conditions tend to chase anything when the mood takes
them.
--
Bill Grey

No fish
 

On 2009-09-19 15:52:39 -0400, Todd said:

Bill Grey wrote:
In message , Todd writes
Bill Grey wrote:

While you guys are still chewing the fat, I went fishing yesterday -
only the second time this year. It was to a small put and take fishery
fishing for stocked Rainbow trout.
Fishing with a stiff NE wind blowing from behind me, I managed to bag
4 Rainbows the largest was just over 4 lbs and the total bag weighed
15 lbs.
They were caught on a small (by our standards Montana nymph.)

Awesome! What size and style of hook did you use?

I'm not sure - it was a fly that's been in my box for a few years.
Probably size 12 . I'm not sure how this relates to your idea of hook
sizes.

We tend to tie flies on larger hooks when fishing for stocked Rainbows.

Actually, hook and shank. My "theory" is that a trout will stray
farther from his feeding lie based on the food value of what he is
chasing. In other words, if the fly is bigger, you don't have to be
such a good shot. If the fly is smaller, say a midge, you have to
hit the trout on the nose to get him to eat it. My "theory".

Nonsense. When I nymph on my home waters in Maine, I usually use
nymphs in the 18 - 24 range, and I am VERY successful with wild salmon
and brook trout. There is one caddis pupua I use that is a size 16,
but that is as large as I would go. Rarely have I seen anyone using
something as large as a size 12 except if they are mimicing a dry March
Brown or a stonefly. Roll over some rocks at the stream you fish and
look at how small the nymphs are. Most are smaller than 16s. My
theory is give them something small they've never seen. I have about 5
personally invented flies, none of them larger than 18, and they all
work.

I sight fished a big rainbow on the Big Horn one time. I used big
flies, small flies, and very tiny flies. I was determined to catch
this fish. I watched him move aside to avoid the fly. *Finally* I put
on something that he wanted - a size 20 tied by a friend, and the big
rainbow took it. There was nothing different in the drift - he just
wanted that particular lure.

The same thing happened in Labrador with one of my grandsons, only this
time it was a dry fly. We both saw the fish finning in an eddy and
drifted dry flies past it. It ignored every fly - two from my grandson
and two from me, all size 16. We must have each made four or five
casts with each fly. I gave my grandson a size 18 black Goddard Caddis
and on the first cast, we saw the fish move up and away to take the
lure. It was a five pound brook trout.

Dave

No fish
 

David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-19 15:52:39 -0400, Todd said:

Actually, hook and shank. My "theory" is that a trout will stray
farther from his feeding lie based on the food value of what he is
chasing. In other words, if the fly is bigger, you don't have to be
such a good shot. If the fly is smaller, say a midge, you have to
hit the trout on the nose to get him to eat it. My "theory".


Nonsense. When I nymph on my home waters in Maine, I usually use nymphs
in the 18 - 24 range, and I am VERY successful with wild salmon and
brook trout. There is one caddis pupua I use that is a size 16, but
that is as large as I would go. Rarely have I seen anyone using
something as large as a size 12 except if they are mimicing a dry March
Brown or a stonefly. Roll over some rocks at the stream you fish and
look at how small the nymphs are. Most are smaller than 16s. My theory
is give them something small they've never seen. I have about 5
personally invented flies, none of them larger than 18, and they all work.

I think Tom has a point with his "theory" about larger flies in one
situation: trout opportunistically feeding on terrestrials or whatever
else comes along on the surface. I run into this often when fishing for
cutthroat in relatively infertile freestone rivers like the Middle Fork
of the Salmon in Idaho and similar places. The fish hold deep in
gin-clear water. A Big Ugly is usually the best choice to bring them up.
I especially like the Madam X, Turk's Tarantula, and big stimulators.
Rarely use hoppers, per se.

In my experience trout usually feed opportunistically and erratically,
but often enough they're keyed into a rhythmic feeding pattern on a
small but numerous bug, whether a dry or a nymph. Sometimes, on a
fertile stream, there will be multiple simultaneous "hatches" but the
trout are focused exclusively on one bug -- I think because they have a
energy-conserving, rhythmic feeding pattern. In that situation you'd
better have the right fly and the right presentation.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.