ROD BUILDING?
 

Conan The Librarian wrote:
rw wrote:

I've read through your post several times and I can't figure out what
point you were trying to make. As near as I can tell, it's something
along the lines of since I don't tie flies I'm somehow lazy or
clueless or unqualified to comment about rod-building tools. But
that's crazy because, even if I am lazy or clueless or unqualified, I
do tie flies.


Chill, Steve. My point is simply that some of us enjoy the creative
process as much as the end result. Others just focus on the end product.

It just so happened that I (mis)remembered that you didn't tie your
own flies. It wasn't a slam, just an obsveration.


Chuck Vance

Fair enough. I'm definitely more toward the "results oriented" end of
the spectrum than toward the "process oriented" side. For example, when
I catch a fish I couldn't care less about whether I caught it with a fly
I tied myself, and I can't ever recall regarding a fishless fishing trip
as nevertheless a "good trip," as some do. :-)

I think a point that Willi was making, and with which I agree, is that
"assembling" a graphite rod doesn't rise very far to the status of a
"creative process."

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

ROD BUILDING?
 

rw typed:
snip
I can't ever recall regarding a
fishless fishing trip as nevertheless a "good trip," as some do. :-)

Now that's just sad.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

ROD BUILDING?
 

rw wrote:

Fair enough. I'm definitely more toward the "results oriented" end of
the spectrum than toward the "process oriented" side. For example, when
I catch a fish I couldn't care less about whether I caught it with a fly
I tied myself, and I can't ever recall regarding a fishless fishing trip
as nevertheless a "good trip," as some do. :-)

For me it would depend on what was involved in the "trip". If it
involved traveling hundreds of miles and days of fishing, then I might
be hardpressed to call it a "good *fishing* trip" (but it could still be
a "good trip"). If it involves driving for a couple of hours and then
going fishless ... well, let's just say that I've had quite a few of
those, and they were for the most part still good fishing trips to my
way of thinking.

If the weather is pleasant, the water is nice, the scenery is good,
I get a good casting rhythm going and I'm placing the flies where I
want, then it's good trip even if the fish are uncooperative.

I think a point that Willi was making, and with which I agree, is that
"assembling" a graphite rod doesn't rise very far to the status of a
"creative process."

I understand, and I can't really disagree. I guess I'm just
thinking it's a false economy to think you're saving money by building
it yourself (and relying on cheap tools is also false economy).
Especially when you consider the amount of money we spend on fly
fishing, when if you really want to be results/money oriented, you'd use
nightcrawlers on a cheap spinning outfit.

I'm the last person who would begrudge anyone making something
themselves whether it be a rod or a dining table. But I'm not going to
fool myself into thinking that I'm saving money by making that table. I
do it because I like doing it, I can design it exactly the way I want
it, and I can be sure that it is well-constructed.

But by the time I factor in the costs of materials, the labor, and
the tools required, it's not going to be saving me any money.


Chuck Vance

ROD BUILDING?
 

Tim J. wrote:
rw typed:
snip

I can't ever recall regarding a
fishless fishing trip as nevertheless a "good trip," as some do. :-)


Now that's just sad.

Some people seem to have a need to regard every fishing trip as a good
trip. That seems pollyanna-like and even delusional to me. I can imagine
how a fishless fishing trip *might* nevertheless be a good trip, and I
might even have had one. I just can't recall one. (BTW, if my fishing
companion catches fish and I don't, it doesn't count as "fishless.")

I've have plenty of bad fishing trips, some spectacularly so.
Acknowledging that makes the good ones feel better. So I don't need your
pity.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

ROD BUILDING?
 

rw typed:
Tim J. wrote:
rw typed:
snip

I can't ever recall regarding a
fishless fishing trip as nevertheless a "good trip," as some do. :-)

Now that's just sad.

Some people seem to have a need to regard every fishing trip as a good
trip. That seems pollyanna-like and even delusional to me. I can
imagine how a fishless fishing trip *might* nevertheless be a good
trip, and I might even have had one. I just can't recall one. (BTW,
if my fishing companion catches fish and I don't, it doesn't count as
"fishless.")
I've have plenty of bad fishing trips, some spectacularly so.
Acknowledging that makes the good ones feel better. So I don't need
your pity.

None given. ;-) IMO, it doesn't seem "pollyanna-like" to make the best out
of a fishless day. Some of my most memorable days astream have been
fishless. The last time I was out (too damn long ago) turned into more of a
pleasure hike than a fishing trip, tho' I was carrying a rod and donning
waders. It just seemed too pretty to spend it all in the river. Stan has
taken me to an "ultra-secret" spot that requires a few miles of hiking in
either direction, and I've gone fishless there twice, but I'd go back in a
heart beat.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

ROD BUILDING?
 

Conan The Librarian wrote:
rw wrote:

Fair enough. I'm definitely more toward the "results oriented" end of
the spectrum than toward the "process oriented" side. For example,
when I catch a fish I couldn't care less about whether I caught it
with a fly I tied myself, and I can't ever recall regarding a fishless
fishing trip as nevertheless a "good trip," as some do. :-)


For me it would depend on what was involved in the "trip". If it
involved traveling hundreds of miles and days of fishing, then I might
be hardpressed to call it a "good *fishing* trip" (but it could still be
a "good trip"). If it involves driving for a couple of hours and then
going fishless ... well, let's just say that I've had quite a few of
those, and they were for the most part still good fishing trips to my
way of thinking.

If the weather is pleasant, the water is nice, the scenery is good, I
get a good casting rhythm going and I'm placing the flies where I want,
then it's good trip even if the fish are uncooperative.

That may very well be a good trip but IMO, it wouldn't be a good fishing
trip. To my way of looking at it, fish must be involved to be a good
FISHING trip. The other aspects of the trip might be wonderful and the
trip as a whole may be great, but I don't see how a it can be a good
fishing trip if you don't catch fish.

Belize last Winter is a good example. The fishing was pretty mediocre,
however the trip itself was terrific. Outstanding trip but not a good
fishing trip.

Maybe it's just semantics.




I think a point that Willi was making, and with which I agree, is that
"assembling" a graphite rod doesn't rise very far to the status of a
"creative process."


I understand, and I can't really disagree. I guess I'm just thinking
it's a false economy to think you're saving money by building it
yourself (and relying on cheap tools is also false economy). Especially
when you consider the amount of money we spend on fly fishing, when if
you really want to be results/money oriented, you'd use nightcrawlers on
a cheap spinning outfit.

I'm the last person who would begrudge anyone making something
themselves whether it be a rod or a dining table. But I'm not going to
fool myself into thinking that I'm saving money by making that table. I
do it because I like doing it, I can design it exactly the way I want
it, and I can be sure that it is well-constructed.

But by the time I factor in the costs of materials, the labor, and
the tools required, it's not going to be saving me any money.




Being self employed, there are many aspects of my business that I can
do. There is too much for me to do myself. So I put a mental price on
how little money I'm willing to work for. If I can hire someone for $7
an hour, I'm not going to do the job myself. Essentially, what that has
turned me into is a handyman. On most projects I do, I probably "earn"
$25 to $50 an hour doing the jobs. (On a furnace repair I did, I made
$350 hour - I was busy and didn't have alot of time, so I had a guy come
out. He gave me an estimate of $700 to repair it. I got the part for
$30 and it took me 2 hours to repair it including going and getting the
part).

The labor is the big cost for most labor intensive jobs. If you discount
your own labor, you can save alot by doing many things yourself. Rod
building and your furniture making are no exceptions (If you compare
your furniture with furniture of equal quality which would need to be
custom made)

Willi

ROD BUILDING?
 

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...
...by the time I factor in the costs of materials, the labor, and the
tools required, it's not going to be saving me any money.

Highly variable and, sometimes at least, hard to assess. Some things
require a great deal more capital investment than others. Some things
involve a great deal more time than others. Some things result in
satisfactory results only after much more experience than others. The
monetary value of one's time and labor is a highly subjective determination.
And, judging by what I've personally witnessed (as well as what I've
experienced myself) over a lifetime, I'd say that most people tend to be
absurdly (if not to say obscenely) liberal with regard to the latter.
:)

Wolfgang
who, if he were paid what he is worth, could not afford to do anything for
himself. :(

ROD BUILDING?
 

Tim J. wrote:
Stan has taken me to an "ultra-secret" spot that
requires a few miles of hiking in either direction, and I've gone
fishless there twice, but I'd go back in a heart beat.

I admit to getting enjoyment out of that process too, which is not
necessarily related to catching fish. ;-} It will be a *big* day for me
when I can make that walk again even if I don't bring a rod.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps
(its nice to have a goal)

ROD BUILDING?
 

Willi wrote:

Belize last Winter is a good example. The fishing was pretty mediocre,
however the trip itself was terrific. Outstanding trip but not a good
fishing trip.

Yeah, well, you didn't catch a big tarpon. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

ROD BUILDING?
 

In article , says...
I understand, and I can't really disagree. I guess I'm just
thinking it's a false economy to think you're saving money by building
it yourself (and relying on cheap tools is also false economy).


I think you are vastly overestimating the tools needed to assemble
a graphite rod. All you need is:
1) Something to rest the blank on while you work.
2) Something to turn the blank.
3) Something to keep tension in the thread while you are
wrapping the guides.
Now, you can spend several hundred dollars on a motorized rod-
turning stand with built-in thread tensioners, or you can rest it
on a cardboard box with notches cut into it, turn it with your
fingers, and put the spool of thread in a flytying bobbin and
let gravity supply the tension, with a total cost close to $0.
The quality of the rod you produce depends more on how fussy you
are about your work, and hardly depends at all about the tools
you use.

I think a more appropriate woodworking analogy to consider is:
You have just glued up your table top, and want to smooth it out.
You can plane it smooth with a handplane (say, $100, maybe a lot
less if you get lucky at a flea market) or you can spend $12,000
on an industrial strength Delta wide-bed planer. If you are in
the furniture building business, the latter option may make sense,
but it probably doesn't for most hobbyists.

Kevin