Fishing - How much fly line?

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How much fly line?

Cont´d

Because such Grayling are large, solitary, and territorial, they are
also often more or less completely cannibalistic. "Not the beautiful
´Lady of the Stream´", I hear some exclaim, "how can this be?". But I
assure you it is indeed the case. Large fish need more food to support
them, especially if they wish to keep growing, or even just maintain
their weight. As a result, they are bound to concentrate their efforts
on larger food items, as the energy returns from insects, unless they
are in massive abundance, will not even keep them alive.

I have had a number of fish over 55cm using this fly and these
tactics, and a couple even larger. Of course one can not catch such
fish every day!

This is why a woolly bugger is attractive to such a fish, it is large,
it moves, and it looks like a nice juicy meal. In most fish, such an
object, when presented correctly, will trigger a response of some
sort. In larger fish, usually an attack or feeding response. So it is
with large Grayling. Although even small fish and medium sized fish
will often attack such a fly with abandon.

We have our fly, our rod, our piece of line, and we are about to
assemble our leader. Normally I use up to nine feet of 3 lb breaking
strain nylon. Just ordinary nylon as sold on the hundred yard spools
in any tackle shop. I do like Maxima, but I don't get heart failure if
I have to use something else. I don't bother with "double strength",
"Fluorocarbon", or all the other stuff which is now available, as it
offers me no particular advantages.

Depending on the depth of water I wish to fish, I tie this long fine
tippet to a leader ring, and thence to a heavy, short, steeply tapered
butt.

This is easy and quick to do, and is very quickly changed or adjusted
at will. If one wishes, one may use an indicator as well, but I don't,
I rely on watching the end of my line, or on "feel", depending how I
am fishing.

Casting this rig as required needs a little practice. I have heard
this particular cast described in a number of ways, but I call it the
"tuck" cast. The idea is to cast, and then stop the line, so that the
fly starts to fall vertically as it comes back towards the caster. It
will plop in, and sink almost vertically, and very quickly. Which is
exactly what we wish to achieve.

Even very deep and quite fast water may be fished properly in this
manner. Usually I dead drift the fly through a likely run at least
once. If nothing occurs, I move it! Usually the move does the trick.
The move can be anything from a couple of twitches, to actually
retrieving the fly upstream. The hits are of course unmistakable in
such a case, and the fish is nearly always well hooked. It really
wants that fly, and makes every attempt to obtain it. Then the fun
begins!

TL
MC

How much fly line?

Vladimir L. wrote in
:

Thanks for the response.
My target is brown and lake trout inhabit in the pretty deep whirlpool
on Niagara river or similar with strong current.

Boy, Peter Charles is really and expert on the Whirlpool. Maybe he can
chime in, if he's still with us.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:45:11 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Larry L wrote:
"Tom Littleton" wrote
... "casting skill" accounts for a VERY small percentage of angling
success. Presentation involves so much more than distance casting or show
casting. Mostly, it involves getting to the sweet spot where the actual
cast is EASY, and avoiding being seen or heard by the fish.

...
Imagine my surprise to find thought of value in these murky depths !!

I post, again having read only 3 or 4 entries in this thread ( I quit
following when I see certain names more than twice in a thread ), only to
say that MY experience is exactly what the quoted passage above says. A
FEW times each year I wish for better casting skills, and even then almost
always better accuracy not distance, I'd kill for better approach and wading
ability and need them every single day of fishing. ...

Well, in Mike's defense he's talking about a whole different ballgame.
I'd imagine when you're standing waist deep in the Baltic casting big
streamers to small sea trout distance is more important than it is in
the kind of fishing me and you Tom usually do. Stealth isn't an issue
and wading ability means being able to stay on your feet when a wave
hits. Not my cup of tea, I prefer little trout streams, but different
strokes ... literally.

Well, a large percentage of the FFing down on the Gulf Coast involves
standing waist-deep in water, flats fishing, or otherwise "distance
casting" in the context of fishing, and none of what I've seen from his
lairdship (I've not read ALL of it) is particularly applicable to much
of anything or even correct. I can assure one and all that one can
successfully fish for any species, any place, by simply matching line
weight to rod marked weight. Sure, shooting heads/lines have there
place in fishing, but even there, simply "matching labels" will work for
anyone, anywhere, for any quarry.

I suspect Mike has gotten on some tournament kick and/or otherwise
thinks he is some real innovator, but he simply doesn't appear to know
WTF he is talking about. And I readily invite anyone still reading to
do as much research on the subject as they wish. I'd start by looking
at what those with a vested interest in selling more stuff have already
spent many years doing. IOW, look at what the various line companies
offer, both in information and product.

TC,
R

How much fly line?

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:38:10 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Larry L wrote:
"Tom Littleton" wrote
... "casting skill" accounts for a VERY small percentage of angling
success. Presentation involves so much more than distance casting or show
casting. Mostly, it involves getting to the sweet spot where the actual
cast is EASY, and avoiding being seen or heard by the fish.
...
Imagine my surprise to find thought of value in these murky depths !!

I post, again having read only 3 or 4 entries in this thread ( I quit
following when I see certain names more than twice in a thread ), only to
say that MY experience is exactly what the quoted passage above says. A
FEW times each year I wish for better casting skills, and even then almost
always better accuracy not distance, I'd kill for better approach and wading
ability and need them every single day of fishing. ...

Well, in Mike's defense he's talking about a whole different ballgame.
I'd imagine when you're standing waist deep in the Baltic casting big
streamers to small sea trout distance is more important than it is in
the kind of fishing me and you Tom usually do. Stealth isn't an issue
and wading ability means being able to stay on your feet when a wave
hits. Not my cup of tea, I prefer little trout streams, but different
strokes ... literally.

Well, a large percentage of the FFing down on the Gulf Coast involves
standing waist-deep in water, flats fishing, or otherwise "distance
casting" in the context of fishing, and none of what I've seen from his
lairdship (I've not read ALL of it) is particularly applicable to much
of anything or even correct. I can assure one and all that one can
successfully fish for any species, any place, by simply matching line
weight to rod marked weight. Sure, shooting heads/lines have there
place in fishing, but even there, simply "matching labels" will work for
anyone, anywhere, for any quarry.

Oh yeah, I agree, His Royal Mikeness is as much full of **** as full
of himself and his "theories" are laughable, I'm just saying distance
can be a more important element of "presentation" in some situations.

It can be, but "real distance" to a fisher is "don't even bother showing
up" in a (absolute) distance tournament. Fishing distances, even
extreme ones (in a fishing context) are readily reachable by standard,
off-the-shelf stuff from any number of places - match up labels/weights
and get after it. Tournament distances and those games are strenuous
things and the distances reached are reached with specialized equipment
that has no (real) use in fishing (even the "Angling distance" game
isn't really like fishing for most, but it's closer). Heck, even if you
_could_ use it fishing, only loons would _choose_ to. You'd have more
fun digging a 10-foot deep, 10-foot around hole in hard ground with a
old miner's pick.

TC,
R

How much fly line?

On Mar 22, 6:51 pm, Vladimir L. wrote:
On 22 Mar 2007 09:51:47 -0700, wrote:

On Mar 22, 5:24 pm, Vladimir L. wrote:
On 19 Mar 2007 07:45:13 -0700, wrote:

What is a "shooting head"? What can I do with it? Do I really need
one?

Mike,

I think you're the right person here to whom I can ask my question.
And the question is what would be the best combination of
rod-reel-backing-line-tippet-fly for fishing with fast sinking
shooting head?
I mean in terms of rod length/weight, shoting head length/weight,
backing length/diameter etc.
And could you name a couple of brand names for
the sinking shooting head line?
I visited the Bass Pro shop but it's too confusing to me to find the
right combination from the specs they provided.
Thank you in advance.

Vladimir L.

--

What do you want to use it for? What is your target quarry?. I need
that information to give you a sensible answer.

TL
MC

Mike,

Thanks for the response.
My target is brown and lake trout inhabit in the pretty deep whirlpool
on Niagara river or similar with strong current.

Vladimir L.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

OK. Then I assume you will largely be using streamers, heavy nymphs
etc. I don´t know the average fish size so I will assume that the rig
should be at least capable of fighting and landing a 5 lb brown in
heavy current?

For carrying large streamers or leaded nymphs etc, you will need at
least a piece of #7 to #8 weight line.

You will also need a fairly powerful rod, at least a #7 or #8

My choice here would be as follows;

A shooting head made from a High density sinking line. At the present
time, and for your purposes, I would recommend this;

http://www.rioproducts.com/

The outbound T14 custom. The chart given shows where to cut the line
to obtain the desired weight.

In this case a #7 wt rod ( total load for 90´DT = 555 grains ) which
would be my first choice as I don´t really like casting heavy rods, is
a bit too weak, so I would go for an #8 ( Total DT load 630 grains)
instead.

I would use the line mentioned at 30 ft = 420 grains. ( You can try
it out before you cut it, depending on the rod, you may be able to use
it "out of the box" ) but 490 grains is really too heavy even for an
#8 weight.

This is a very heavy line, and not easy to cast and control. It moves
very fast indeed through the air, and your timing must be impeccable
if you want to avoid a severe belt around the neck or ears. Casting a
high density sinker is not at all the same as casting floating lines.

You can use ordinary tapered leaders here, in the appropriate size
range, either nine or twelve foot. This is not critical on sinking
line presentations. You can even use a length of nylon as a but,t and
simply tie some tippet to it. Turnover and presentation are completely
non critical in such applications. You should use a needle knot or
similar to attach your butt section;
http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/knots/needle/index.html

If you want to save some money, then you can make up your own shooting
heads, You will find info here;

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbette...s/1st-7th.html

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbette...ads/index.html

You can use any reel you like which will hold the head and the
backing. I would use good braid or similar backing in this case. I
would go for the lightest reel I could find which will hold my line.
Probably a carbon fibre composite like this;

http://www.morayflyfishing.co.uk/okumaairframereels.php

I use these reels in the salt, among other things, they are light,
cheap and very reliable. You will doubtless find a distributor in the
USA

Any fast #8 weight from 9´to 9´6" will suit you. I can´t recommend a
specific rod here, I build my own.

There are other possible combinations, and a couple which would be
easier to cast as well. But the outfit described will do the job for
you. The T14 is a little on the heavy side, normally I would not
recommend sinking heads in excess of about 300 grains, but in this
specific case, the extra weight is justified.

TL
MC

How much fly line?

Incidentally, this application is on the upper limits of single handed
rod capacity. The 9´6" is better than a 9´here, as the longer reach is
useful. However, for this application, I would seriously consider
using a light double hander in the twelve to fourteen n foot range. I
can´t give you much information on that though as I don´t use them
very often, only very occasionally, and am not well informed enough to
give you qualified advice on that.

As somebody else mentioned, Peter Charles would probably be the man
for that, but I don´t know whether he even still posts here. If you
are interested in trying such, then let me know, and I will find
somebody who can give you more info on it.

TL
MC