So, OK, he's for change, he gives Chris Mathews a feeling "uphisleg," and...
 

Dave LaCourse wrote in
:

Comprendre? Comprendee?

Got it. You chose between a liar and a deserter, and opted for the liar.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

So, OK, he's for change, he gives Chris Mathews a feeling "uphisleg," and...
 

Scott Seidman wrote in
.4:

Dave LaCourse wrote in
:

Comprendre? Comprendee?

Got it. You chose between a liar and a deserter, and opted for the liar.


oops, I mean deserter, of course. Or maybe it's liar AND deserter.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

So, OK, he's for change, he gives Chris Mathews a feeling "uphisleg,"and...
 

Bob Weinberger wrote:

He in fact did. He testified before Congress that he had first hand
knowledge of atrocities committed by US troops. While while some or all of
those atrocities may have occured.

We all know those atrocities did occur. The following McCain quote
is floating around on the internet. Is this something McCain did
actually say, or is this a Democratic swift boating? You tell me.

"I am a war criminal," McCain said on "60 Minutes" in 1997. "I bombed
innocent women and children."

I (unlike you) was not in Viet Nam. I got lucky. But I knew plenty
who were there. I had a roommate in college who had been a Navy
Sea-bee, or something like that. His stories were sickening.
I met a guy in 1968 who'd been a Green Beret medic at Khe Sahn and Lang
Vei (now a semi-famous writer). I heard first hand accounts of
executions and torture from him too.

I did a 4 year carpenter's apprenticeship in California at the
height of the war. I heard lots of stories from shell-shocked guys
just back from the war. Much of what I heard sounded a lot like what I'd
call atrocities. So I'd say your complaints about Kerry are word-parsing
errors. "First hand knowledge?" I had that too. I talked with
people who were there, who told me what they saw.

If the 1960's right had the courage to live up to their own convictions,
they'd have known communism would soon fail by itself anyway,
which of course it did. 50,000 Americans lost their lives there for
nothing. We did lose that useless war, outright.
And we still pay the price today. And now we're doing it all over again.

We had a good excuse for a fight in Afghanistan, and a good opportunity
to make something out of it too. Instead we ignored Afghanistan, and,
well, you know the rest. The same right wing c*&%k suckers have us
f$#Sked all over again.

So, OK, he's for change, he gives Chris Mathews a feeling "uphisleg,"and...
 

Bob Weinberger wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
Yeah, there's that but perhaps he wasn't lying in the first place.
One thing we do know for a fact is that the Swiftboating of Kerry
was a pack of despicable lies so you'll have to excuse me if I don't
place a whole lot of credence in your Swiftboat redux.

No perhaps about it. Based on my knowledge of situation in Viet Nam at the
time he and I were there, there is no way in Hell that he witnessed all he
said under oath that he had. Also though we know for a fact that some of
the SwiftBoaters allegations were outright lies, based my own experiences
and on conversations I've had with fellow Naval officers who were in Nam at
the same time, and have no axe to grind Kerry, there is no way I can
accept as fact that all the allegations were lies. ...

Well Bob, I'm afraid you're just gonna have to accept that I
find you less credible than John Kerry (and all the living
members of his crew). You appear to have some sort of axe to
grind with the Vietnam Vets Against The War and with Kerry
being their spokesman before Congress. You also appear to be
if not a Swiftboater, then at least a Swiftboater wannabe.

BTW I was not and am not a Bush supporter. I was unable to hold my nose long
enough to vote for him even though based on my perceptionof Kerry's
character (actually his lack thereof) there was no way I would vote for him.
So I cast a futile protest vote for some non-viable 3rd party candidate
(can't even remember who at this point).

Yeah, I'm sorry but you're self-reported voting record is not
at all persuasive.

--
Ken Fortenberry

So, OK, he's for change, he gives Chris Mathews a feeling "uphisleg," and...
 

On 17 Feb 2008 23:18:24 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote:

Got it. You chose between a liar and a deserter, and opted for the liar.

Deserter? What deserter? Kerry didn't desert. He didn't get an
honorable discharge, but he didn't desert. And *he* is the liar.
Before Congress. Under oath. Sort of like your hero.

Dave

So, OK, he's for change, he gives Chris Mathews a feeling "uphisleg," and...
 

"salmo bytes" wrote in message
. ..

snip

So I'd say your complaints about Kerry are word-parsing
errors. "First hand knowledge?" I had that too. I talked with
people who were there, who told me what they saw.

snip

I'd hardly call my accusation of outright lying word parsing. There's a
reason the courts make a bright line distinction between heresay and direct
knowledge - a distinction that your reply shows you don't understand. I
acknowledged that many if not all those atrocities likely occurred. Even
if they all did, it is immaterial to the fact that he lied when he said he
witnessed them.

Bob Weinberger

So, OK, he's for change, he gives Chris Mathews a feeling "uphisleg," and...
 

On 17 Feb 2008 23:19:01 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote:

Scott Seidman wrote in
. 1.4:

Dave LaCourse wrote in
:

Comprendre? Comprendee?

Got it. You chose between a liar and a deserter, and opted for the liar.


oops, I mean deserter, of course. Or maybe it's liar AND deserter.

Ahhhhh, now I understand you. Do you have proof that Bush was a
deserter? No? Yeah, no one else does either.

Scott, we are fighting wars that happened long ago. You won't change
the way I feel about Kerry. He epitomizes the term scumbag both as a
warrior and a senator.

Dave

So, OK, he's for change, he gives Chris Mathews a feeling "uphisleg," and...
 

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:24:16 -0700, salmo bytes wrote:

I met a guy in 1968 who'd been a Green Beret medic at Khe Sahn and Lang
Vei (now a semi-famous writer). I heard first hand accounts of
executions and torture from him too.

Khe Sahn did not involve Special Forces (Green Berets). It was an
action by the III Marines and elements of the South Vietnamese Army.
No Green Beret medics at Khe Sahn; only USN Hospital Corpman

The trouble with Kerry's stories is that he wasn't exposed to the
enemy in that way. Most of the action, if not all of it, was aboard a
patrol boat. He got the stories from plants within the Viet Nam Vets
Against the War *who never were in country*.

Dave

So, OK, he's for change, he gives Chris Mathews a feeling "uphisleg,"and...
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Khe Sahn did not involve Special Forces (Green Berets). It was an
action by the III Marines and elements of the South Vietnamese Army.
No Green Beret medics at Khe Sahn; only USN Hospital Corpman


The guy I met in 1968 (Doug Peacock, the inspiration for Hay Duke in
the Monkey Wrench Gang) was a green beret medic, at Lang Vei
I believe. Now that I think about it, he told stories about
Khe Sahn, but never said he was there. At Lang Vei he was
.....unless I (like Andy Petitte the other day) "miss-heard."

So, OK, he's for change, he gives Chris Mathews a feeling "uphisleg," and...
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
et...
Well Bob, I'm afraid you're just gonna have to accept that I
find you less credible than John Kerry (and all the living
members of his crew).

That's about as vile a statement as you could make, knowing my evaluation of
Kerry's credibility.

You appear to have some sort of axe to
grind with the Vietnam Vets Against The War and with Kerry
being their spokesman before Congress. You also appear to be
if not a Swiftboater, then at least a Swiftboater wannabe.

Ken Fortenberry

I have no axe to grind with the Vietnam vets Against the War or the fact
that Kerry was their spokesman. My heartburn is with those who I know for a
fact ( not just have a strong suspicion ) outright lied to make their point,
and with the defenders of such people, who simply cannot accept that their
champion can do any wrong. I have the same heartburn with regard to the
outright lies used by the Swiftboaters.
If I were a Swiftboater wannabe, I would have had no problem bringing out my
concerns and beliefs during Kerry's presidential bid. I chosre not to do
so because I had no desire to help Bush's chances.

I was glad that Kerry was defeated, but disappointed that Bush won 8).

Bob Weinberger