Wayne Harrison wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
As for the booze thing, it's overstated here on roff. In fact
there are several non-drinkers who are fine Clave companions.
You've already heard from one, a fellow diet Coke addict. ;-)

oh, hog ****. first time i ever met you, i considered your ability to
drive from clave central to almond boat dock cabins late in the night after
our "single malt tasting" without ending up in fontana lake to have been a
****ing miracle.

Yes, well, I've been drunk since sometime late in the
Nixon Administration and that drive was unremarkable.

and, i suppose it would be a bit hypocritical to fail to observe that
the entire contingent of regulars from the old north state will, as they say
in rowan county, "take a drink"...

Have you decided to expel Zimbo from the Old North State just
for being Mormon ? ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Larry L wrote:

FWIW, I agree with you. It is one, but not the major reason I've decided
to not clave. I was all set, only 35 miles away, in my truck and ready
to go to last years Western Clave, when I realized that I seem to have very
little in common with the vast majority on ROFF, and would likely end up
being a stick in the mud in more ways than one.

Willi once called me anti-social and that isn't accurate, as best I can tell
from the inside. But I'm not a "fish with" kind of person, indeed with
the
exception of a few days with my son, where only he had a rod, I probably
haven't "fished with" others more than half dozen days in 35 years. I enjoy
chatting with the others I meet on the creek, but having to keep the needs,
schedules, and preferences of others "in the back of my mind" would ruin my
day. I did that for years, traveling with clients and trying to stick some
fishing into the trips .... I'd never take a dog with me at this point for
the same reason, having to get back to let him out, or worrying about him in
the truck is a "been there, done that, never want to again" .... in my book.

I'd very much like to sit and leisurely discuss fly fishing with a Willi or
Mike
Connor, or maybe tag along and watch them fish, but I don't get the
impression
that a clave is the place to do it.

I'm afraid you have a very inaccurate image of what a Western ROFF Clave
is like, Larry. Many if not most people camp, and you can hang out with
and fish with -- or not hang out with and not fish with -- anyone you
like, any time you like. The four Western Claves I've been to have been
conspicuous for their LACK of socializing, except for raffle night,
which can be skipped if you prefer. For me, Western Claves are about
serious dawn-to-dark fishing, or driving absurd distances to or from
fishing, but anyone is free to approach it in his own way and at his own
speed.

Western Claves occasionally will have some bozo complain that he's not
been given enough respect or experienced enough camaraderie (usually
complaining on ROFF after the Clave), but he can be either ignored or
ridiculed.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw wrote:

... The four Western Claves I've been to have been
conspicuous for their LACK of socializing, except for raffle night,
which can be skipped if you prefer.
snip
Western Claves occasionally will have some bozo complain that he's not
been given enough respect or experienced enough camaraderie (usually
complaining on ROFF after the Clave), but he can be either ignored or
ridiculed.

Dave LaCourse is *not* some bozo. He's hosted Claves, attended
many, and his observations about the Western Clave he attended
are very similar to "conspicuous for its LACK of socializing."

Western Claves are different, no one need be ridiculed for that.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:03:01 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Western Claves are different, no one need be ridiculed for that.

No one needs to complain about it either.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

Charlie Choc wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Western Claves are different, no one need be ridiculed for that.

No one needs to complain about it either.

Louie's "complaint" was virtually identical to the Putz's
"selling point." What does *that* tell you ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

"rw" wrote

Western Claves are about
serious dawn-to-dark fishing,


That is another reason I never made it last year. I was camped down near
Wood Rd by H Fork and got in my truck to "go clave." When I got to the
road that goes over to the Madison over that bridge where everyone fishes
( not 3 buck, the real highway bridge ) I thought " ****, nobody will be
there anyway, they will all be out fishing. The only time to catch them
would be late, after dark," I ended up doing laundry instead, if I
remember.

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:17:38 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Charlie Choc wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Western Claves are different, no one need be ridiculed for that.

No one needs to complain about it either.

Louie's "complaint" was virtually identical to the Putz's
"selling point." What does *that* tell you ?

That you should go back and actually read LaCourse's "complaint". Stuff like
'cliques' and 'nobody invited me to fish with them' and 'can't compare with NC
friendship' is a little different than a simple lack of socializing.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
. com...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote

As for the booze thing, it's overstated here on roff. In fact
there are several non-drinkers who are fine Clave companions.
You've already heard from one, a fellow diet Coke addict. ;-)

It's interesting to meet fellow roffians, I recommend it even
though I'm probably done with it myself for awhile.

--
Ken Fortenberry

oh, hog ****. first time i ever met you, i considered your ability to
drive from clave central to almond boat dock cabins late in the night
after our "single malt tasting" without ending up in fontana lake to have
been a ****ing miracle.

and, i suppose it would be a bit hypocritical to fail to observe that
the entire contingent of regulars from the old north state will, as they
say in rowan county, "take a drink"...

wayno

You might consider a re-count.

Mark

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote

Just as well. There's nothing at all wrong with a
"no booze for me" attitude but a self-proclaimed
"anti-booze snob" would be god's own wet blanket
and a royal pain in the arse at a Clave.


FWIW, I agree with you. It is one, but not the major reason I've
decided
to not clave. I was all set, only 35 miles away, in my truck and ready
to go to last years Western Clave, when I realized that I seem to have
very
little in common with the vast majority on ROFF, and would likely end up
being a stick in the mud in more ways than one.

Willi once called me anti-social and that isn't accurate, as best I can
tell
from the inside. But I'm not a "fish with" kind of person, indeed with
the
exception of a few days with my son, where only he had a rod, I probably
haven't "fished with" others more than half dozen days in 35 years. I
enjoy
chatting with the others I meet on the creek, but having to keep the
needs,
schedules, and preferences of others "in the back of my mind" would ruin
my
day. I did that for years, traveling with clients and trying to stick
some
fishing into the trips .... I'd never take a dog with me at this point for
the same reason, having to get back to let him out, or worrying about him
in
the truck is a "been there, done that, never want to again" .... in my
book.

I'd very much like to sit and leisurely discuss fly fishing with a Willi
or Mike
Connor, or maybe tag along and watch them fish, but I don't get the
impression
that a clave is the place to do it.

Larry, there is no need to explain yourself. There are folks like me who
tend to show their asses when they drink and their are folks that handle
their drink, and their are folks like Charlie that don't drink. There is
something at each 'clave that is very different, and you decide for yourself
what you choose to be involved with. What you won't see at any 'clave is
Ken Fortenberry.

You seem to get on very well here with many ROFFians, so take a chance and
meet some very fine individuals, or trailer trash like myself.

Mark --one day at a time-- Bowen

In article
,
"Larry L" wrote:

"Charlie Choc" wrote

, but not as many as you might think. FWIW
--

Thanks for that Charlie. I'm going to be very close to the Western Clave,
again this year, and actually have been considering "making an appearance"
.... I'm not really ant-clave, anti-social, or anti-social drinking .... but
booze nearly killed me, and it cost everyone that cares about me dearly for
years and years. I think it's nearly impossible to be a "reformed drunk"
without a developing a desire to avoid drunks.

As a fellow Lab owner (yea, she thinks she owns us) and bird hunter
Larry it would be pleasure to meet up with since a few of us are making
the trip from MD. I expect it will be a bit different than Penns and
that's fine. I plan on enjoying the countryside, wildlife and catching a
few fish (dumb ones) and if the timing works out sit camp side with a
few folks. Frank Reid, Gene Cyprich and I are staying in a cabin but
that's mostly since we're flying out due to lack of vacation and didn't
want to haul camping gear.

Cheers,
Allen