Charlie Choc wrote:
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:50:02 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote:

I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic.
;-)

Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two
seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove
the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for
solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the
canoe?

Have you tried paddling the canoe 'backwards' while sitting
'backwards' in the front seat? That will get you closer to the middle
of the canoe without having to modify it.

Yeah, I'm doing that now but I'm still too far back. I've been carrying
a five-gallon plastic contaier to give the other side some ballast and
that works okay, but it's a pain to go through that and have to carry
around extra stuff.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Frank Reid wrote:
http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/...5/badger.shtml

I don't know from badgers. I'm more interested in Hoary Hedgehog (released
today).
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

Hey, a thread with my name on it!

Yeah, you can replace the center THWART with a seat. But as others have
noted, you actualy don't want to be in the exact center of the canoe
when you paddle, as the boat will tend to pivot rather than move
forward when you stroke. Unfortunately, the center thwart DOES want to
be in the exact center, so replacing it with a seat is at
cross-purposes. For this reason, the middle thwart seat in 3-seat
canoes is actually for a third person, not a solo paddler. Even
traditional kayakers sit a little behind the midpoint.

What most folks do is sit backwards in the bow seat and paddle the
canoe the other way. If you find that you cannot get close enough to
the center for your liking (and you are unwilling to admit that its a
style problem, not a design flaw), then try replacing the second thwart
with a butt board. The second thwart is the one behind the bow
paddler...it lies about halfway between the middle thwart and the bow.
In some boats its in front of the stern paddler, but not commonly.

A butt board is a piece of 1x3 that is on hangers so that it sits a bit
lower than a thwart, and it doubles as a seat and a thwart. It is
angled at 30deg, so when you are kneeling and putting your butt cheeks
on it, it doesn't dig into the back of your legs. If it is placed
right, its actually VERY comfortable. You can put some padding down for
your knees, wrap some ensolite around it, and spend all day on it with
no problems, as most of your weight is on your butt, no your knees.
I've seen folks put a flat part on the top for an actual seat, which is
cozy.

I'll see if I can find some pics of what I'm talking about. I have a
rudimentary one on my BlueHole that I regularly used to spend a week or
more 10-12 hour days on with no problem. I even removed the other seat
from my boat to better place the butt board.

Or you can just learn to paddle solo the way most solo boaters do. :-)

--riverman

riverman wrote:
Hey, a thread with my name on it!

Yeah, you can replace the center THWART with a seat. But as others
have noted, you actualy don't want to be in the exact center of the
canoe when you paddle, as the boat will tend to pivot rather than move
forward when you stroke.

Maybe my problem is that I bought a cheaper off-brand canoe and the bow
seat is too far forward. It seemed a lot farther forward that I thought
it should be when I got it based on others I'd used, and some folks
(including me) have complained about it when in two-paddler mode. If
that's the case, would it be a problem to remove the bow seat, get a
slightly wider seat, cut it to fit, and mount it about 8 inches to a
foot back?

Paddling on my knees isn't an option, even with the butt support. I
don't bend well anyway, and my knees have been known to give me trouble.
Since they feel pretty good right now, I don't want to risk it. It could
cut in to my wading trips. :)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

riverman wrote:
Hey, a thread with my name on it!

Yeah, you can replace the center THWART with a seat. But as others
have noted, you actualy don't want to be in the exact center of the
canoe when you paddle, as the boat will tend to pivot rather than move
forward when you stroke. Unfortunately, the center thwart DOES want to
be in the exact center, so replacing it with a seat is at
cross-purposes. For this reason, the middle thwart seat in 3-seat
canoes is actually for a third person, not a solo paddler. Even
traditional kayakers sit a little behind the midpoint.

Well, a lot of that is not necessarily so. My canoe is primarily a solo and
has the main seat very near the center. I have no trouble keeping it on a
straight track and have difficulty taking a sharp turn without heeling it
over (due to the hull shape). There are a bow and stern seat but the hull
is too narrow for big people to use them comfortably for a long time (they
were perfect for my kids though). Whether of not a canoe pivots is as much
a factor of the paddle stroke, the amount of keel, the amount of rocker, and
whether you have the boat heeled over (assuming you have little or no
rocker). If the seat is far off the center point the boat will tend to
pivot more because you are lifting the bow (or stern) out of the water so
you have less drag at that end. I've seen Timmaay do that many times.
Especially the time he had his anchor outg.

correct stuff snipped
--riverman

--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

Stan Gula wrote:
riverman wrote:
Hey, a thread with my name on it!

Yeah, you can replace the center THWART with a seat. But as others
have noted, you actualy don't want to be in the exact center of the
canoe when you paddle, as the boat will tend to pivot rather than
move forward when you stroke. Unfortunately, the center thwart DOES
want to be in the exact center, so replacing it with a seat is at
cross-purposes. For this reason, the middle thwart seat in 3-seat
canoes is actually for a third person, not a solo paddler. Even
traditional kayakers sit a little behind the midpoint.

Well, a lot of that is not necessarily so. My canoe is primarily a
solo and has the main seat very near the center. I have no trouble
keeping it on a straight track and have difficulty taking a sharp
turn without heeling it over (due to the hull shape). There are a
bow and stern seat but the hull is too narrow for big people to use
them comfortably for a long time (they were perfect for my kids
though). Whether of not a canoe pivots is as much a factor of the
paddle stroke, the amount of keel, the amount of rocker, and whether
you have the boat heeled over (assuming you have little or no
rocker). If the seat is far off the center point the boat will tend
to pivot more because you are lifting the bow (or stern) out of the
water so you have less drag at that end. I've seen Timmaay do that
many times. Especially the time he had his anchor outg.

Did I mention this was my first canoe?
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:50:02 -0400, "Tim J."

wrote:

I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic.
;-)

Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at
front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center
gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or
will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe?

Have you tried paddling the canoe 'backwards' while sitting 'backwards' in
the
front seat? That will get you closer to the middle of the canoe without
having
to modify it.
--
Charlie...
IJ adds --also put your cooler on floor by rear seat--------it'll help
balance load and provide lots of fun when you crawl up to get a beer!

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:28:46 GMT, "Stan Gula"
wrote:

Frank Reid wrote:
http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/...5/badger.shtml

I don't know from badgers. I'm more interested in Hoary Hedgehog (released
today).

we don't need no stinking badgers

"daytripper" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:28:46 GMT, "Stan Gula"
wrote:

Frank Reid wrote:
http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/...5/badger.shtml

I don't know from badgers. I'm more interested in Hoary Hedgehog
(released
today).

we don't need no stinking badgers

Hey! :(

Wolfgang
**** 'em, bucky!

Tim J. wrote:
riverman wrote:
Hey, a thread with my name on it!

Yeah, you can replace the center THWART with a seat. But as others
have noted, you actualy don't want to be in the exact center of the
canoe when you paddle, as the boat will tend to pivot rather than
move
forward when you stroke.

Maybe my problem is that I bought a cheaper off-brand canoe and the
bow
seat is too far forward. It seemed a lot farther forward that I
thought
it should be when I got it based on others I'd used, and some folks
(including me) have complained about it when in two-paddler mode. If
that's the case, would it be a problem to remove the bow seat, get a
slightly wider seat, cut it to fit, and mount it about 8 inches to a
foot back?

Paddling on my knees isn't an option, even with the butt support. I
don't bend well anyway, and my knees have been known to give me
trouble.
Since they feel pretty good right now, I don't want to risk it. It
could
cut in to my wading trips. :)
--


Well , there really aren't any rules, so you can do whatever works for
you. I think you'd do fine to buy a standard, unfitted seat and place
it where you can sit in it for solo boating. Be sure to get one with
webbing straps, not cane, as they can poke through pretty quickly.
Also, experiment with seat height...the thwart is at gunwale height,
but the seat should be hung a few inches lower.

If you know who your bow paddler will be, I'd suggest going whole hog.
After you mount the front seat where it works for you solo, take out
the stern seat and then, with both of you in the boat, move yourself
fore and aft until you find the right place to remount a stern seat in
order to counterbalance the bow paddler, so that the hull sits almost
perfectly level. A good rule of thumb is for it to be down about an
inch or so in the bow when loaded. Once a boat (even an offbrand) is
fine-tuned this way, its a real joy to paddle, and you can load all
your gear in the center where it has the least impact on turning.

--riverman