OT - 4 stroke outboards
 

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in
message ...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in
message ...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
. com...
Lately, marketing for 2 strokers mentions higher maintenance for 4
strokers.
Any truth to that?
Any opinions on 4 versus 2?

Thanks, Bill

Now, remember that this is strictly my opinion based on the fact that
I've always owned 2 stroke outboards but have been in several 4 stroke
powered boats.

The horsepower to weight ratio is better with a 2 stroke in most
instances, and 2 stroke outboards "rev up" quicker than 4 strokes,
getting you up on plane quicker. The 4 stroke powered boats I've been
in
seemed to take forever to get on plane.

While 4 stroke technology is being touted as being more environmentally
friendly, advances in fuel delivery and emission control systems for
two
stroke outboards have improved dramatically and new 2 strokes are as
good, if not better than some 4 strokes for emissions.

The same can be said for fuel economy. 4 strokes do give good "milage"
but are no longer superior to new 2 strokes.

4 stroke outboards have more moving parts and require more maintenance
than 2 stroke outboards.

4 stroke outboards are quiet when operating, but I personally found the
noise that they do make to sound mechanical and annoying!

BUT, in defense of 4 stroke motors, if you do a LOT of trolling, 4
stroke
motors will run better at low rpm's without loading up than most 2
stroke
motors and they probably won't smoke as much. Oh wait, if you get a
Mercury Optimax with the Smart Gauges, you can control the rpm's too!
Oh
well, so much for that.....

So, is there any significant differences, yes and no. Would I buy a 4
stroke? Maybe the Verado, but that's different, it has a supercharger,
which is high on the "Cool Factor".... Otherwise, I see no real
reason
to buy a 4 stroke motor.

But remember, these are just my impressions. Your milage may vary.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com



Why would you say a 2 stroke has less parts and should be more reliable?

***Take a basic two stroke engine and a basic 4 stroke engine totally
apart.
Now, see how many parts you have! No where did I bring up the word
reliability!

The new DFI 2 strokes with air pumps, etc, are very complicated beasts.
And the extra parts for a 2 stroke are all new technology.

***Agreed, but they are less complicated than a comparably sized 4 stroke
outboard. I've looked under the "hood" of both and have talked to marine
mechanics who work on them. All that I've talked to would rather work on
the 2 stroke motors.

4 strokes have a
history of about a 100 years of manufacture.

***Oars and paddles have been around even longer, does that make them
better?

I run an inboard and have a 4
stroke Yamaha T-8 as a kicker, the kicker is quieter than the 2 stroke
Mariner it replaced and smells much better.

***You're comparing apples and oranges. What year was the Mariner
outboard
in comparison to the Yamaha? How about a real comparison between current
technology 2 and 4 stroke kickers? You might be surprised.

***I'm not saying that 4 stroke motors are junk, what I am saying is that
they're not all they're cracked up to be. If running a 4 stroke motor
makes
you happy and it does what it needs to do for you, then GREAT! But while
the 4 stroke proponents had been predicting the demise of the 2 stroke
outboard for many reasons, it just hasn't happened. Many of TODAY'S 2
stroke outboards run cleaner, with less emissions than 4 stroke outboards,
just as economically and faster in the process.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers



And besides all that Steve, 2 strokers are still a ton cheaper HP-for-HP. So
long as they allow 2 stroke engines on NC waterways, they'll be what I use
you can bet. I looked at the 4 stroke "upgrade" for my boat back when I
bought it in 2003 and there was simply NO WAY to justify the extra cost IMO,
it was 50% more on the total package just to get the same HP in 4 stroke
form.

The idea behind 4 strokes is noble, and environmentally sound I guess, but
they're gonna need to start really knocking the prices down before I'll ever
be interested in one.

OT - 4 stroke outboards
 

"SimRacer" wrote in message SNIP

And besides all that Steve, 2 strokers are still a ton cheaper HP-for-HP.
So
long as they allow 2 stroke engines on NC waterways, they'll be what I use
you can bet. I looked at the 4 stroke "upgrade" for my boat back when I
bought it in 2003 and there was simply NO WAY to justify the extra cost
IMO,
it was 50% more on the total package just to get the same HP in 4 stroke
form.

The idea behind 4 strokes is noble, and environmentally sound I guess, but
they're gonna need to start really knocking the prices down before I'll
ever
be interested in one.


That's another thing that I didn't really think about when I made the post,
but you're right there too. When we talked about powering my new boat, I
discussed a 275 hp Verado vs. the 250 XS OptiMax. That discussion was
quickly ended when I discovered a $7,000.00 price difference! My boat is
Opti powered.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

OT - 4 stroke outboards
 

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in
message ...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in
message ...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
. com...
Lately, marketing for 2 strokers mentions higher maintenance for 4
strokers.
Any truth to that?
Any opinions on 4 versus 2?

Thanks, Bill

Now, remember that this is strictly my opinion based on the fact that
I've always owned 2 stroke outboards but have been in several 4 stroke
powered boats.

The horsepower to weight ratio is better with a 2 stroke in most
instances, and 2 stroke outboards "rev up" quicker than 4 strokes,
getting you up on plane quicker. The 4 stroke powered boats I've been
in seemed to take forever to get on plane.

While 4 stroke technology is being touted as being more environmentally
friendly, advances in fuel delivery and emission control systems for two
stroke outboards have improved dramatically and new 2 strokes are as
good, if not better than some 4 strokes for emissions.

The same can be said for fuel economy. 4 strokes do give good "milage"
but are no longer superior to new 2 strokes.

4 stroke outboards have more moving parts and require more maintenance
than 2 stroke outboards.

4 stroke outboards are quiet when operating, but I personally found the
noise that they do make to sound mechanical and annoying!

BUT, in defense of 4 stroke motors, if you do a LOT of trolling, 4
stroke motors will run better at low rpm's without loading up than most
2 stroke motors and they probably won't smoke as much. Oh wait, if you
get a Mercury Optimax with the Smart Gauges, you can control the rpm's
too! Oh well, so much for that.....

So, is there any significant differences, yes and no. Would I buy a 4
stroke? Maybe the Verado, but that's different, it has a supercharger,
which is high on the "Cool Factor".... Otherwise, I see no real reason
to buy a 4 stroke motor.

But remember, these are just my impressions. Your milage may vary.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com



Why would you say a 2 stroke has less parts and should be more reliable?

***Take a basic two stroke engine and a basic 4 stroke engine totally
apart. Now, see how many parts you have! No where did I bring up the word
reliability!

The new DFI 2 strokes with air pumps, etc, are very complicated beasts.
And the extra parts for a 2 stroke are all new technology.

***Agreed, but they are less complicated than a comparably sized 4 stroke
outboard. I've looked under the "hood" of both and have talked to marine
mechanics who work on them. All that I've talked to would rather work on
the 2 stroke motors.

4 strokes have a
history of about a 100 years of manufacture.

***Oars and paddles have been around even longer, does that make them
better?

I run an inboard and have a 4
stroke Yamaha T-8 as a kicker, the kicker is quieter than the 2 stroke
Mariner it replaced and smells much better.

***You're comparing apples and oranges. What year was the Mariner
outboard in comparison to the Yamaha? How about a real comparison between
current technology 2 and 4 stroke kickers? You might be surprised.

***I'm not saying that 4 stroke motors are junk, what I am saying is that
they're not all they're cracked up to be. If running a 4 stroke motor
makes you happy and it does what it needs to do for you, then GREAT! But
while the 4 stroke proponents had been predicting the demise of the 2
stroke outboard for many reasons, it just hasn't happened. Many of
TODAY'S 2 stroke outboards run cleaner, with less emissions than 4 stroke
outboards, just as economically and faster in the process.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com


My Mariner was a 15 hp so that makes it the old tech, which a new 15 hp
would also be. The 4 stroke is a yamaha T-8 kicker. Since I run a EFI 350
inboard jet drive, I also like the factor of no extra tank for the kicker.