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Germans drink more coffee per capita than water or beer, and the
Dutch, Norwegians, and Finns, ( among other Scandinavian countries)
drink even more of it;

http://www.thats-coffee.com/cms/inde...00&Item id=58

These are old figures, I have not looked for new ones, but I have been
told that the USA is still near the bottom of the list in regard to
per capita coffee consumption;

http://www.coffeeresearch.org/market/consumption.htm

MC

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Sorry, these are the USA statistics;

http://www.coffeeresearch.org/market/usa.htm

MC

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I'm puzzled by this thread. Coffee in the USA is wretchedly bad - as
bad as, say, democracy in Somalia.

Yet you're all wittering on about details of coffee-making that don't
matter a whisker unless there's a basic understanding in the country
about what constitutes decent cup of coffee.

Which isn't there.

L

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Lazarus Cooke wrote:
I'm puzzled by this thread. Coffee in the USA is wretchedly bad - as
bad as, say, democracy in Somalia.

Yet you're all wittering on about details of coffee-making that don't
matter a whisker unless there's a basic understanding in the country
about what constitutes decent cup of coffee.

Which isn't there.

You're painting with a pretty wide brush there, aren't you ?
I mean there's absolutely no understanding in the UK about
what constitutes decent food yet I would guess there are at
least a few epicures to be found somewhere over there.

--
Ken Fortenberry

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Lazarus Cooke wrote:
I'm puzzled by this thread. Coffee in the USA is wretchedly bad - as
bad as, say, democracy in Somalia.

There's a lot of bad coffee in the USA, but in recent years it's been
getting much easier to find an excellent cup of coffee in the big cities
and high-class tourist spots. There's been something of a coffee
renaissance (and I'm not primarily talking about Starbucks, although
they've played a big role in awakening consumer awareness). I've even
bought more than decent coffee in truck stops.

I generally avoid retail-brewed coffee (unless I need a jolt while
traveling), preferring to make my own.

A similar thing has happened with beer and wine. You can find superb
wine and beer grown and made in the US, as good as anything in Europe,
although I'm sure that French wine snobs will disagree. Of course, you
can also find plenty of disgusting swill.

One time years ago, while attending a scientific conference in Italy,
the social event was a dinner cruise on Lake Como. My American colleague
and I shared a table with a French couple. Italian wine was served, one
bottle per person, and the French couple refused even to taste it. My
colleague and I gladly drank theirs, getting pretty loaded in the
process. It was very, very good.

Perhaps the worst wine I've even tasted was at a bullfight in Madrid --
one of those stalls where they fill a bottle right from the keg. I do,
however, like Sangre de Toro.

We're even starting to make absinthe again. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

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On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:46:05 -0600, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

You're painting with a pretty wide brush there, aren't you ?
I mean there's absolutely no understanding in the UK about
what constitutes decent food yet I would guess there are at
least a few epicures to be found somewhere over there.

I spent a culinary month in London one week. I guarantee you there is
an English cook in hell!

Dave

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On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:38:58 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:


I'm puzzled by this thread. Coffee in the USA is wretchedly bad - as
bad as, say, democracy in Somalia.

Yet you're all wittering on about details of coffee-making that don't
matter a whisker unless there's a basic understanding in the country
about what constitutes decent cup of coffee.

Which isn't there.

L

It's all about personal tastes. My mom used to use Maxwell House in a
perculator. Tasted fine to me. Then I joined the Navy and drank Navy
coffee. Very strong, but I learned to drink it black (out of
necessity). I was never satisfied with the coffee my wife made
because it wasn't strong enough.

Now I use a Braun coffee make with "designer" coffee. Mr. Miller, a
famous roffian, gifted me with a coffee grinder. I honestly can not
tell the difference between freshly ground and ground coffee. But, it
satisfies my taste. There are at least a thousand other things that
concern me more than the taste of my morning coffee. I have no
trouble drinking coffee from Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, or any other
coffee shop, *as long as it isn't flavored*. Coffee is supposed to
taste like coffee, not some French vanilla bean.

Dave

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In article , Ken
Fortenberry wrote:

Lazarus Cooke wrote:
I'm puzzled by this thread. Coffee in the USA is wretchedly bad - as
bad as, say, democracy in Somalia.

Yet you're all wittering on about details of coffee-making that don't
matter a whisker unless there's a basic understanding in the country
about what constitutes decent cup of coffee.

Which isn't there.

You're painting with a pretty wide brush there, aren't you ?
I mean there's absolutely no understanding in the UK about
what constitutes decent food yet I would guess there are at
least a few epicures to be found somewhere over there.

Hi Ken

this ain't a UK/USA thing.
Had the discussion been in the UK (or, worse, Ireland) I'd have said
the same.

(Although there isn't the same food snobbery in the UK as there is in
the US. It's bad here, but not AS bad).

I bought a pizza for lunch today at what's supposed to be the founder
of good pizzas in the UK. The check for a margherita and a big glass of
wine was around twenty dollars. (In naples, where I've been for most of
the past few months, it would have been around five dollars. the pizza
there would have been superb, the wine a bit ropey)

Now today's pizza was in the founding branch of Pizza Express, on
Wardour Street, in Soho, London, the centre of the movie business in
Europe, probably, so it ought to have been at least adequate. It
wasn't. The pizza was so disgustingly badly made that I threw a
wobbler.

But it takes no effort to make a good margherita pizza. It just takes
skill, knowledge and care. They were all totally lackiing.

If people on wardour st, london, are prepared to serve up really awful
pizzas, then it means that there is no judgment at all about
pizza-making in england. I'd hold to that. No-one based in England is
entitled to say anything about pizza-making, because they're unlikely
ever to have tasted a decent one, and they don't know what they're
talking about.

In the same way, I think that in the US (as in the UK), folks should
start by trying to achieve a decent, standard cup of coffee. Once
that's been achieved, we can move on to fine grades of recherche beans
and roasts. But let's start with a decent cup of coffee, like you can
get in any tiny bar in any really ropey slummy area of an unknown town
in Italy. No-one in the back streets of Torre Annunziata is going on
about different beans, and roasts. But I'll defy you to get anything
less than an excellent cup of coffee there, even in the meanest slum
street.

Lazarus

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Lazarus Cooke wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Lazarus Cooke wrote:
I'm puzzled by this thread. Coffee in the USA is wretchedly bad - as
bad as, say, democracy in Somalia.

Yet you're all wittering on about details of coffee-making that don't
matter a whisker unless there's a basic understanding in the country
about what constitutes decent cup of coffee.

Which isn't there.
You're painting with a pretty wide brush there, aren't you ?
I mean there's absolutely no understanding in the UK about
what constitutes decent food yet I would guess there are at
least a few epicures to be found somewhere over there.

Hi Ken

this ain't a UK/USA thing.
Had the discussion been in the UK (or, worse, Ireland) I'd have said
the same. ...

You missed my point, which is it's not a nationality thing at all.
Just because most of the coffee served up in the US is wretched
doesn't mean the coffee at Steve's place isn't just as good, or
better, than the coffee in the meanest Italian slum. We're not
"wittering on" about the "standard US" cup of coffee, if there
even is such a thing, but our own tastes.

--
Ken Fortenberry

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In article , Ken
Fortenberry wrote:

...

You missed my point, which is it's not a nationality thing at all.
Just because most of the coffee served up in the US is wretched
doesn't mean the coffee at Steve's place isn't just as good, or
better, than the coffee in the meanest Italian slum. We're not
"wittering on" about the "standard US" cup of coffee, if there
even is such a thing, but our own tastes.

Indeed I didn't adress your point. There are great restaurants in
England too, and places where you can get ar really good cup of coffee.

But in countries such as England and the Us good food and drink are
the preserve of a small proportion of educated, comparatively wealthy
people.

In Italy they're not. They're owned by everyone, and everyone demands,
with knowledge., high standards.

When I can expect to go into any small cafe in Cabool, MO, or
Punxsatawny, PA, and get an excellent coffee, (or pizza), there will be
something to work on.

Until then, we, you, are indeed just wittering on about an effete,
snobbish distinction.

Lazarus