Are people in Boston friggin' stoopid...?
 

On Oct 29, 7:43*am, wrote:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...28_DA:_Crimina...

Lessee here - an 8-year-old boy is dead, having shot himself with an
out-of-control full-auto Uzi, and the local DA is wondering if anyone
might have been negligent...uh, ya think?

While I firmly believe that gun ownership, in general, is a
Constitutionally-protected individual right in the US, I'm pretty sure
it doesn't apply to allowing preteens to operate full-auto
close-quarters combat weapons. *What possible defense to criminal
negligence could a parent or instructor possibly have to allowing a 8 YO
child to even handle such a weapon with a loaded magazine, much less
fire the ****ing thing?

And for those that don't know (probably most readers), a Micro Uzi on
full-auto is difficult to control for an untrained adult of average
strength and weighs considerably more than the average pistol or
revolver. *I have experience with ones in all of the available calibers,
including while fitted with sub-caliber training devices (.22), and I
would say that there is no way whatsoever that a child could possibly
fire any of them safely while on full-auto. *Such a firearm is not a
target pistol nor a "plinking" firearm, it is purely and exactly what it
was designed to be: a weapon, and children have no business whatsoever
even handling such weapons, to say nothing of actually firing the thing.

A sad sheesh,
R
...and yeah, the father, the (alleged) "instructor" and anyone else
involved in allowing this tragedy deserve some jail time, with the
alleged "instructor" never being allow to so much a touch a firearm ever
again or "supervise" anyone else doing so...

As Stan said, the event occurred out in "Indian Country" where we
live, nowhere near Boston. (Well closer than N'awleens, but not real
close)
Anyhow, I saw the promo brochure for this event, and they had a free
range set up with .22 caliber rifles & instructors to cater to the
young kids. This kid's father, (a doctor, for gawd's sake!), promised
the boy he could shoot a "machine gun". and somehow got him set up
with the UZI. Why the range officer allowed this, I'll never know, but
he did. There, of course, is now a big push for legislation to "make
sure this never happens again". Well, they can pass all the gun laws
they want, but until they find a way to regulate monumental stupidity,
tragedies like this will continue to happen.

I agree that the the father and the range officer, or whoever allowed
the kid to even touch the Uzi, should be prosecuted. In the meantime,
I would advise avoiding the ER at the hospital in Stafford Springs,
CT, where the father works.

Are people in Boston friggin' stoopid...?
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:58:45 -0700 (PDT), george9219
wrote:

On Oct 29, 7:43*am, wrote:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...28_DA:_Crimina...

Lessee here - an 8-year-old boy is dead, having shot himself with an
out-of-control full-auto Uzi, and the local DA is wondering if anyone
might have been negligent...uh, ya think?

While I firmly believe that gun ownership, in general, is a
Constitutionally-protected individual right in the US, I'm pretty sure
it doesn't apply to allowing preteens to operate full-auto
close-quarters combat weapons. *What possible defense to criminal
negligence could a parent or instructor possibly have to allowing a 8 YO
child to even handle such a weapon with a loaded magazine, much less
fire the ****ing thing?

And for those that don't know (probably most readers), a Micro Uzi on
full-auto is difficult to control for an untrained adult of average
strength and weighs considerably more than the average pistol or
revolver. *I have experience with ones in all of the available calibers,
including while fitted with sub-caliber training devices (.22), and I
would say that there is no way whatsoever that a child could possibly
fire any of them safely while on full-auto. *Such a firearm is not a
target pistol nor a "plinking" firearm, it is purely and exactly what it
was designed to be: a weapon, and children have no business whatsoever
even handling such weapons, to say nothing of actually firing the thing.

A sad sheesh,
R
...and yeah, the father, the (alleged) "instructor" and anyone else
involved in allowing this tragedy deserve some jail time, with the
alleged "instructor" never being allow to so much a touch a firearm ever
again or "supervise" anyone else doing so...

As Stan said, the event occurred out in "Indian Country" where we
live, nowhere near Boston. (Well closer than N'awleens, but not real
close)
Anyhow, I saw the promo brochure for this event, and they had a free
range set up with .22 caliber rifles & instructors to cater to the
young kids. This kid's father, (a doctor, for gawd's sake!), promised
the boy he could shoot a "machine gun". and somehow got him set up
with the UZI. Why the range officer allowed this, I'll never know, but
he did. There, of course, is now a big push for legislation to "make
sure this never happens again". Well, they can pass all the gun laws
they want, but until they find a way to regulate monumental stupidity,
tragedies like this will continue to happen.

I agree that the the father and the range officer, or whoever allowed
the kid to even touch the Uzi, should be prosecuted. In the meantime,
I would advise avoiding the ER at the hospital in Stafford Springs,
CT, where the father works.

FWIW, this would not have happened with a full-sized (or Mini) Uzi fired
as a carbine, only the Micro fired as a pistol. This particular model
is particularly unsuited for this type of "event," as are all machine
pistols, and any alleged "instructor" worth a **** would have known
that. But anyone who has ever seen a handgun fired, much less fired a
handgun, should have enough common sense to realize that an
inexperienced person, and certainly any child, should not be allowed to
fire such a hard-to-control weapon. The second and subsequent rounds
were not going to be discharged in a safe fashion, period, given the
situation, and the fact that someone was killed is just that taken to
the extreme - even if no one had been hurt, the situation was still very
unsafe because the firing was out of control. There are a large number
of "machine guns" that could be, under careful, knowledgeable
supervision, safely used in such a situation. A Micro Uzi is not one of
them. It's something like "bikes" - the average 8 YO can easily handle
a pedal bike and probably something like the little electric/weedeater
powered "scooters," but they shouldn't be allowed to attempt to ride a
full-race crotchrocket.

TC,
R

Are people in Boston friggin' stoopid...?
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
snip
The papers had pictures of her
stuffing bribe money into her bra. Uh, one has to ask: How much
money will a bra hold? ...

Why ask us ? Strap on a D cup, stuff your flabby old man boobs
in it and gather the empirical evidence for yourself. ;-)

Uh ... no need to report your data, you're probably the only
one interested in that particular "experiment".

--
Ken Fortenberry

Are people in Boston friggin' stoopid...?
 

On Oct 29, 12:12*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:58:45 -0700 (PDT), george9219



wrote:
On Oct 29, 7:43*am, wrote:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...28_DA:_Crimina....

Lessee here - an 8-year-old boy is dead, having shot himself with an
out-of-control full-auto Uzi, and the local DA is wondering if anyone
might have been negligent...uh, ya think?

While I firmly believe that gun ownership, in general, is a
Constitutionally-protected individual right in the US, I'm pretty sure
it doesn't apply to allowing preteens to operate full-auto
close-quarters combat weapons. *What possible defense to criminal
negligence could a parent or instructor possibly have to allowing a 8 YO
child to even handle such a weapon with a loaded magazine, much less
fire the ****ing thing?

And for those that don't know (probably most readers), a Micro Uzi on
full-auto is difficult to control for an untrained adult of average
strength and weighs considerably more than the average pistol or
revolver. *I have experience with ones in all of the available calibers,
including while fitted with sub-caliber training devices (.22), and I
would say that there is no way whatsoever that a child could possibly
fire any of them safely while on full-auto. *Such a firearm is not a
target pistol nor a "plinking" firearm, it is purely and exactly what it
was designed to be: a weapon, and children have no business whatsoever
even handling such weapons, to say nothing of actually firing the thing.

A sad sheesh,
R
...and yeah, the father, the (alleged) "instructor" and anyone else
involved in allowing this tragedy deserve some jail time, with the
alleged "instructor" never being allow to so much a touch a firearm ever
again or "supervise" anyone else doing so...

As Stan said, the event occurred out in "Indian Country" where we
live, nowhere near Boston. (Well closer than N'awleens, but not real
close)
Anyhow, I saw the promo brochure for this event, and they had a free
range set up with .22 caliber rifles & instructors to cater to the
young kids. This kid's father, (a doctor, for gawd's sake!), promised
the boy he could shoot a "machine gun". and somehow got him set up
with the UZI. Why the range officer allowed this, I'll never know, but
he did. There, of course, is now a big push for legislation to "make
sure this never happens again". Well, they can pass all the gun laws
they want, but until they find a way to regulate monumental stupidity,
tragedies like this will continue to happen.

I agree that the the father and the range officer, or whoever allowed
the kid to even touch the Uzi, should be prosecuted. In the meantime,
I would advise avoiding the ER at the hospital in Stafford Springs,
CT, where the father works.

FWIW, this would not have happened with a full-sized (or Mini) Uzi fired
as a carbine, only the Micro fired as a pistol. *This particular model
is particularly unsuited for this type of "event," as are all machine
pistols, and any alleged "instructor" worth a **** would have known
that. *But anyone who has ever seen a handgun fired, much less fired a
handgun, should have enough common sense to realize that an
inexperienced person, and certainly any child, should not be allowed to
fire such a hard-to-control weapon. *The second and subsequent rounds
were not going to be discharged in a safe fashion, period, given the
situation, and the fact that someone was killed is just that taken to
the extreme - even if no one had been hurt, the situation was still very
unsafe because the firing was out of control. *There are a large number
of "machine guns" that could be, under careful, knowledgeable
supervision, safely used in such a situation. *A Micro Uzi is not one of
them. *It's something like "bikes" - the average 8 YO can easily handle
a pedal bike and probably something like the little electric/weedeater
powered "scooters," but they shouldn't be allowed to attempt to ride a
full-race crotchrocket.

TC,
R

Agree 100%. It is fortunate that no one else was shot in this
incident. The Hampden County DA is looking through our myriad of gun
laws to see if there are any that apply. It seems unlikely, as this
event was conducted on a licensed range on private property, and the
usual permit requirements don't apply. It seems certain that they can
and will charge those responsible for their reckless behavior. It is
just as certain that the laws pertaining to private ranges will be
changed, and if history is a guide, they will go way overboard.

Are people in Boston friggin' stoopid...?
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:52:01 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Why ask us ? Strap on a D cup, stuff your flabby old man boobs
in it and gather the empirical evidence for yourself. ;-)

Uh ... no need to report your data, you're probably the only
one interested in that particular "experiment".

I've seen a recent picture of you (kaaaccckk). If there be any flabby
old man boobs, they be yours. I'll have you know I am down to 205 and
bench pressing my weight. Not bad for an old man. And what about
that marathon thingy...... you ever gonna run that or was it all talk?
d;o)

Are people in Boston friggin' stoopid...?
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Why ask us ? Strap on a D cup, stuff your flabby old man boobs
in it and gather the empirical evidence for yourself. ;-)

Uh ... no need to report your data, you're probably the only
one interested in that particular "experiment".

I've seen a recent picture of you (kaaaccckk). If there be any flabby
old man boobs, they be yours. I'll have you know I am down to 205 and
bench pressing my weight. Not bad for an old man.

That's just wonderful and I'll bet you have regular bowel
movements too. That Metamucil is wonderful stuff. ;-)

And what about
that marathon thingy...... you ever gonna run that or was it all talk?

Well, I ran Chicago way back when, finished in 4:15 which
wasn't bad for a 42 year old. I'm not going to qualify for
Boston anytime soon, but the older I get the slower the
qualifying time so in that sense time's on my side.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Are people in Boston friggin' stoopid...?
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:12:46 -0700 (PDT), george9219
wrote:

On Oct 29, 12:12*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:58:45 -0700 (PDT), george9219



wrote:
On Oct 29, 7:43*am, wrote:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...28_DA:_Crimina...

Lessee here - an 8-year-old boy is dead, having shot himself with an
out-of-control full-auto Uzi, and the local DA is wondering if anyone
might have been negligent...uh, ya think?

While I firmly believe that gun ownership, in general, is a
Constitutionally-protected individual right in the US, I'm pretty sure
it doesn't apply to allowing preteens to operate full-auto
close-quarters combat weapons. *What possible defense to criminal
negligence could a parent or instructor possibly have to allowing a 8 YO
child to even handle such a weapon with a loaded magazine, much less
fire the ****ing thing?

And for those that don't know (probably most readers), a Micro Uzi on
full-auto is difficult to control for an untrained adult of average
strength and weighs considerably more than the average pistol or
revolver. *I have experience with ones in all of the available calibers,
including while fitted with sub-caliber training devices (.22), and I
would say that there is no way whatsoever that a child could possibly
fire any of them safely while on full-auto. *Such a firearm is not a
target pistol nor a "plinking" firearm, it is purely and exactly what it
was designed to be: a weapon, and children have no business whatsoever
even handling such weapons, to say nothing of actually firing the thing.

A sad sheesh,
R
...and yeah, the father, the (alleged) "instructor" and anyone else
involved in allowing this tragedy deserve some jail time, with the
alleged "instructor" never being allow to so much a touch a firearm ever
again or "supervise" anyone else doing so...

As Stan said, the event occurred out in "Indian Country" where we
live, nowhere near Boston. (Well closer than N'awleens, but not real
close)
Anyhow, I saw the promo brochure for this event, and they had a free
range set up with .22 caliber rifles & instructors to cater to the
young kids. This kid's father, (a doctor, for gawd's sake!), promised
the boy he could shoot a "machine gun". and somehow got him set up
with the UZI. Why the range officer allowed this, I'll never know, but
he did. There, of course, is now a big push for legislation to "make
sure this never happens again". Well, they can pass all the gun laws
they want, but until they find a way to regulate monumental stupidity,
tragedies like this will continue to happen.

I agree that the the father and the range officer, or whoever allowed
the kid to even touch the Uzi, should be prosecuted. In the meantime,
I would advise avoiding the ER at the hospital in Stafford Springs,
CT, where the father works.

FWIW, this would not have happened with a full-sized (or Mini) Uzi fired
as a carbine, only the Micro fired as a pistol. *This particular model
is particularly unsuited for this type of "event," as are all machine
pistols, and any alleged "instructor" worth a **** would have known
that. *But anyone who has ever seen a handgun fired, much less fired a
handgun, should have enough common sense to realize that an
inexperienced person, and certainly any child, should not be allowed to
fire such a hard-to-control weapon. *The second and subsequent rounds
were not going to be discharged in a safe fashion, period, given the
situation, and the fact that someone was killed is just that taken to
the extreme - even if no one had been hurt, the situation was still very
unsafe because the firing was out of control. *There are a large number
of "machine guns" that could be, under careful, knowledgeable
supervision, safely used in such a situation. *A Micro Uzi is not one of
them. *It's something like "bikes" - the average 8 YO can easily handle
a pedal bike and probably something like the little electric/weedeater
powered "scooters," but they shouldn't be allowed to attempt to ride a
full-race crotchrocket.

TC,
R

Agree 100%. It is fortunate that no one else was shot in this
incident. The Hampden County DA is looking through our myriad of gun
laws to see if there are any that apply. It seems unlikely, as this
event was conducted on a licensed range on private property, and the
usual permit requirements don't apply. It seems certain that they can
and will charge those responsible for their reckless behavior. It is
just as certain that the laws pertaining to private ranges will be
changed, and if history is a guide, they will go way overboard.

"GUN" LAWS??!! WTF? Why does it need to be a "gun law?" I know Mass
has a gracious plenty of "liberals," weenies, Kennedys and other
assorted kooks, but I can't imagine that there aren't already at least
several general "conduct" laws that would apply to several of the
various levels of participation in this. This is almost as stupid as
all the "hate crime" crapola. IAC, if you know your DA, tell them for
me that he/she is an idiot. Either way, this is nothing more than some
"liberal" anti-gun political stunt on their part. This has nothing to
do with guns and everything to do with criminally-negligent conduct.

IAC, given the weapon and circumstances, I cannot imagine any
Legislator, even in Mass., introducing such a proposed law and even
further out there would be a Legislature that would pass it. As to
making a law (or laws) to prevent a re-occurrence, well, good luck...it
would require as its underlying premise that your average person has
common ****ing sense...I mean, if someone actually gave a Mainway Toys'
"Bag O' Glass" to an infant, would "liberals" be screaming that there
needed to be a Dan Ackroyd law...?

TC,
R
...would one need a permit to carry a concealed Tina Fey...assuming Tina
Feys weren't outlawed altogether...

Are people in Boston friggin' stoopid...?
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:05:07 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

time's on my side.

Take it from an old man, time is *never* on your side.

Dave

OT: Are people in Western Mass friggin' stoopid...?
 

On Oct 29, 12:30*pm, wrote:
Snip
Richard
1. Of course the adults should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of
the law. Manslaughter at least. Idiots.
2. How did you wind up blaming the "liberals" for whatever? I'll bet
you $25 godzillion that "liberals" were few and far between at this
"let's shoot machine guns with the kids" family gun lover event. It
seems like a case might be made that WTF were these gun whacks
thinking. But the "liberals?" Come on dude, that is overworking the
material at hand.
Dave
Now if you had worked the Clintons into the narrative I might have
understood, but the "liberals?" Really.

Are people in Boston friggin' stoopid...?
 

On Oct 29, 2:30*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:12:46 -0700 (PDT), george9219



wrote:
On Oct 29, 12:12*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:58:45 -0700 (PDT), george9219

wrote:
On Oct 29, 7:43*am, wrote:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...28_DA:_Crimina...

Lessee here - an 8-year-old boy is dead, having shot himself with an
out-of-control full-auto Uzi, and the local DA is wondering if anyone
might have been negligent...uh, ya think?

While I firmly believe that gun ownership, in general, is a
Constitutionally-protected individual right in the US, I'm pretty sure
it doesn't apply to allowing preteens to operate full-auto
close-quarters combat weapons. *What possible defense to criminal
negligence could a parent or instructor possibly have to allowing a 8 YO
child to even handle such a weapon with a loaded magazine, much less
fire the ****ing thing?

And for those that don't know (probably most readers), a Micro Uzi on
full-auto is difficult to control for an untrained adult of average
strength and weighs considerably more than the average pistol or
revolver. *I have experience with ones in all of the available calibers,
including while fitted with sub-caliber training devices (.22), and I
would say that there is no way whatsoever that a child could possibly
fire any of them safely while on full-auto. *Such a firearm is not a
target pistol nor a "plinking" firearm, it is purely and exactly what it
was designed to be: a weapon, and children have no business whatsoever
even handling such weapons, to say nothing of actually firing the thing.

A sad sheesh,
R
...and yeah, the father, the (alleged) "instructor" and anyone else
involved in allowing this tragedy deserve some jail time, with the
alleged "instructor" never being allow to so much a touch a firearm ever
again or "supervise" anyone else doing so...

As Stan said, the event occurred out in "Indian Country" where we
live, nowhere near Boston. (Well closer than N'awleens, but not real
close)
Anyhow, I saw the promo brochure for this event, and they had a free
range set up with .22 caliber rifles & instructors to cater to the
young kids. This kid's father, (a doctor, for gawd's sake!), promised
the boy he could shoot a "machine gun". and somehow got him set up
with the UZI. Why the range officer allowed this, I'll never know, but
he did. There, of course, is now a big push for legislation to "make
sure this never happens again". Well, they can pass all the gun laws
they want, but until they find a way to regulate monumental stupidity,
tragedies like this will continue to happen.

I agree that the the father and the range officer, or whoever allowed
the kid to even touch the Uzi, should be prosecuted. In the meantime,
I would advise avoiding the ER at the hospital in Stafford Springs,
CT, where the father works.

FWIW, this would not have happened with a full-sized (or Mini) Uzi fired
as a carbine, only the Micro fired as a pistol. *This particular model
is particularly unsuited for this type of "event," as are all machine
pistols, and any alleged "instructor" worth a **** would have known
that. *But anyone who has ever seen a handgun fired, much less fired a
handgun, should have enough common sense to realize that an
inexperienced person, and certainly any child, should not be allowed to
fire such a hard-to-control weapon. *The second and subsequent rounds
were not going to be discharged in a safe fashion, period, given the
situation, and the fact that someone was killed is just that taken to
the extreme - even if no one had been hurt, the situation was still very
unsafe because the firing was out of control. *There are a large number
of "machine guns" that could be, under careful, knowledgeable
supervision, safely used in such a situation. *A Micro Uzi is not one of
them. *It's something like "bikes" - the average 8 YO can easily handle
a pedal bike and probably something like the little electric/weedeater
powered "scooters," but they shouldn't be allowed to attempt to ride a
full-race crotchrocket.

TC,
R

Agree 100%. It is fortunate that no one else was shot in this
incident. The Hampden County DA is looking through our myriad of gun
laws to see if there are any that apply. It seems unlikely, as this
event was conducted on a licensed range on private property, and the
usual permit requirements don't apply. It seems certain that they can
and will charge those responsible for their reckless behavior. It is
just as certain that the laws pertaining to private ranges will be
changed, and if history is a guide, they will go way overboard.

"GUN" LAWS??!! *WTF? *Why does it need to be a "gun law?" *I know Mass
has a gracious plenty of "liberals," weenies, Kennedys and other
assorted kooks, but I can't imagine that there aren't already at least
several general "conduct" laws that would apply to several of the
various levels of participation in this. *This is almost as stupid as
all the "hate crime" crapola. *IAC, if you know your DA, tell them for
me that he/she is an idiot. *Either way, this is nothing more than some
"liberal" anti-gun political stunt on their part. *This has nothing to
do with guns and everything to do with criminally-negligent conduct.

IAC, given the weapon and circumstances, I cannot imagine any
Legislator, even in Mass., introducing such a proposed law and even
further out there would be a Legislature that would pass it. *As to
making a law (or laws) to prevent a re-occurrence, well, good luck...it
would require as its underlying premise that your average person has
common ****ing sense...I mean, if someone actually gave a Mainway Toys'
"Bag O' Glass" to an infant, would "liberals" be screaming that there
needed to be a Dan Ackroyd law...? *

TC,
R
..would one need a permit to carry a concealed Tina Fey...assuming Tina
Feys weren't outlawed altogether...

Massachusetts - Feelgood laws are us. I gaurandamntee that we have
legislators foaming at the mouth right now scrambling to write new
legislation. I have met our DA, but will not mention my views to him,
as I value my concealed carry permit. FWIW, I completely agree that
this is a negligence issue, not a gun issue. With the father this kid
had, he was doomed from the get-go. If it hadn't been a gun, it would
have been an ATV, speedboat, motorcycle, etc.