Cutting spey lines.
 

Peter Charles wrote in
:

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 22:34:38 +0100, "Mike Connor"
wrote:

Cutting Spey lines is easy. Filleting is the hard
part.

TL
MC


acetone - fillets real easy afterward

Peter



I've found hot water does a pretty good job too!

Steve (be careful dying lines fellas )

"Lines" for double handers (overhead) was Cutting spey lines.
 

"Lines" for double handers (overhead) was Cutting spey lines.
 

"Stephen Welsh" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. 1.4...
SNIP
So what do you blokes use in the way of special (if any) lines for
overhead
casting these rods. (I've had a look at the spey pages etc ).
SNIP

Practically everybody I know uses various "heads", most made up from
#12DT´s, some spliced up, others merely matched for length and weight. 45
feet is very popular ! ( You get two out of a "standard" DT!:))

TL
MC

"Lines" for double handers (overhead) was Cutting spey lines.
 

On 4 Jan 2004 21:31:39 GMT, Stephen Welsh
wrote:

(Greg Pavlov) wrote in news:3ff4d01e.59194727
:

My favorite "small"
spey line for my lighter/shorter pseudo-spey
rods is the Rio salmon/steelhead line.


So what do you blokes use in the way of special (if any) lines for overhead
casting these rods. (I've had a look at the spey pages etc ).

I'm starting out with a DT ('cos I have one laying around) and will
eventually make some heads once I've a handle on using it.

Following some advice from Peter (ta Peter :), gleaning info from other
posts (Greg), thinking about local conditions, the rod I picked up from
the carriers on Christmas eve is a 10 wt Daiwa Lochmor X 14'6".

Steve (Yet to cast it ... :( ...amazing how time slips away)


The DT uncut will be next to useless as an overhead line though it
will work OK with long line Spey technique. Almost all overhead work
with two-handers is done with shooting heads. Your 10 wt. will
probably overhead cast 500 to 650 grains quite nicely. The longer the
head, the heavier you should go, so a 24' - 500 grain Rio Big Boy
would work and so would an Airflo Expert 45' - 12 wt. T7 shooting head
(640 grains). Both these lines would feel about the same on the load
because of what I call the Wiggle - Stretch factor.

No doubt about 30 or so of our local denizens have now conjured up the
peeling off of Spandex from a wriggling, nubile nymph, but this is
really all about trying to accelerate all parts of the shooting head
at the same time. The longer the head, the harder this is to do. All
fly lines stretch under tension and pretty well all backcasts are not
perfectly straight so the stretch has to be taken up and the wiggles
straigtened out before the tip accelerates at the same rate as the
butt of the shooting head. As a reault, the average acceleration rate
for a short head is higher than that of a long head as it's easier to
overcome the Wiggle - Stretch of a short head vs. a long one. It's the
old F=MA business for if you can't accelerate as fast, you have to add
mass to end up at with same force.

I'd recommend starting out with a couple of Airflo Expert 45' - 12 wt.
heads plus some running line (about 100' feet). Use the underhand
casting stroke shown in the Speypages Anderson and Morgensten video
clips. A two-hander overhead cast is killed by too much top hand so
the vertical drop of the underhand technique keeps this tendency under
control. You need a very high, crisp, hard stop to generate distance
with this rod, but very little power. Given a chance it will
virtually cast itself and the 45' heads should manage 150' casts given
enough running line. Notice on the video that the top hand elbow is
kept close to the side -- that's the key. If you're throwing tailing
loops, you're applying too much power unnecessarily.

Have fun and let us know how you do.

Peter

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"Lines" for double handers (overhead) was Cutting spey lines.
 

On 4 Jan 2004 21:31:39 GMT, Stephen Welsh
wrote:

(Greg Pavlov) wrote in news:3ff4d01e.59194727
:

My favorite "small"
spey line for my lighter/shorter pseudo-spey
rods is the Rio salmon/steelhead line.


So what do you blokes use in the way of special (if any) lines for overhead
casting these rods. (I've had a look at the spey pages etc ).

I'm starting out with a DT ('cos I have one laying around) and will
eventually make some heads once I've a handle on using it.

Following some advice from Peter (ta Peter :), gleaning info from other
posts (Greg), thinking about local conditions, the rod I picked up from
the carriers on Christmas eve is a 10 wt Daiwa Lochmor X 14'6".

Steve (Yet to cast it ... :( ...amazing how time slips away)

Steve

Forgot a few things.

I may be preaching to the choir so forgive me if this is old news but
it wouldn't do to waltz in to this brave new world without some of
this stuff:

You've found www.speypages.com but have you also found the boards at
www.sexyloops.co.uk and http://www.flyfishingforum.com/speyclave/?
Both these boards have good discussions going on the technical issues
of two-handers - Sexyloops can get especially technical at times - but
there are local denizens lurking there that have a lot of experience
tossing flies on the end of two-handers in the surf. Three names that
comes to mind: "Maxg" who is a fellow countryman of yours and uses big
rods in the surf, "Juro", the North American CND distributor, east
coast striper guy, and originator of the Atlantis 1111 (11' - 11wt.)
surf rod, and "2handthesalt" who is another east coast striper guy.
The two-striper guys favour two-handers in the 11' to 12' range while
Maxg likes the 15 footers.

Your rod has a 10 wt. spey rating which works out to 12/13 wt.
overhead so judge your line buying accordingly. You're best to work
with grain weights rather than the AFTMA scale and remember that the
longer the head, the heavier it needs to be. Juro described dealing
with this issue on the Atlantis not that long ago on the
flyfishingforum.

Try and get your hands on the International Spey Casting Video put out
by Rio. Most of it won't be pertinent but Leif Stavmo's demos of
overhead and underhand casts are. Leif makes the important point that
long casts on the two-hander take very little effort. Adding power
just screws things up. The power stroke of the underhand cast is
exactly the same as that of the overhead cast. I'm doing my damnedest
to train in the underhand style because it works across the board.
Also, it pays to learn the Scandinavian style of underhand casting, as
there are times when there isn't sufficient room for an overhead
backcast. Last week, the Grand was so high that at Caledonia, I was
forced to stand on what little remained of the Gabion baskets above
water. Having had some practice at their methods, I was able to
manage as much as 90' on the double-Spey, using a very tiny D-Loop,
without tangling with the baskets or the bank behind me. After that
experience, I feel I can cast damn near anywhere. When it comes to
shooting heads, the Scandinavian method is where it's at. Some of
those boys are reported to have hit 180' or more on Spey casts.

About distance - the distances I mention might sound incredulous to
someone used to casting 30' or 40' but they're routine in the
two-hander world. I normally overhead cast in the 130' range with
exceptional casts running into the 140' and 150' range. When I
measure these casts, I lop off a few feet to allow for the inevitable
bends and squiggles in the line. The last time I hit 150', I had
about 163' out but it wasn't straight as the crosswind put a bend in
the line. Juro talks about routine 120' to 130' casts using factory
lines on the 11' Atlantis and 150' casts with specialised rigs.
Expect to cast over 100' within the first ten minutes or so of casting
the big stick. To put it in perspective, most single-handed rod
casters are happy with a maximum cast of 70' or 80' but when beginner
Spey anglers undergo instruction, they *start* off with 70' to 80'
casts.

Watch those Speypages video on Anderson and Morgensten as that
technique makes life with the two-hander oh so simple.




Peter

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"Lines" for double handers (overhead) was Cutting spey lines.
 

Peter Charles wrote in message . ..
On 4 Jan 2004 21:31:39 GMT, Stephen Welsh


You've found www.speypages.com but have you also found the boards at
www.sexyloops.co.uk and http://www.flyfishingforum.com/speyclave/?
Both these boards have good discussions going on the technical issues
of two-handers - Sexyloops can get especially technical at times - but
there are local denizens lurking there that have a lot of experience
tossing flies on the end of two-handers in the surf. Three names that
comes to mind: "Maxg" who is a fellow countryman of yours and uses big
rods in the surf, "Juro", the North American CND distributor, east
coast striper guy, and originator of the Atlantis 1111 (11' - 11wt.)
surf rod, and "2handthesalt" who is another east coast striper guy.
The two-striper guys favour two-handers in the 11' to 12' range while
Maxg likes the 15 footers.


Thanks for that Peter, I'll look in on the board. Max (Max Garth)
and I have crossed paths occasionally on local boards ...
knew he was into big sticks but not the DHs ... should be able to get
hold of him without too much trouble.

It'll take me a day or two to absorb everything (getting over a week
in Tassie - *yawn*)


Thanks again for the advice chaps,

Steve

"Lines" for double handers (overhead) was Cutting spey lines.
 

Peter Charles wrote in
:

Have fun and let us know how you do.



Spooled up the 10 WT (turned out to be a WF afterall) and soon had that all
off the reel (over grass) and mostly out of the rod tip. Managed to nail
a couple of casts - talk about laid back ... suits me fine :-) As you
say, it probably needs a 12+ WT to load it properly

Having the 10 WT spooled allowed me try try it on the 8wt MPOS I'd
suspected of being underrated (had been using 9wt 30ft heads that were
perfect for the previous 8wt). Blasted the whole line out - noting a sweet
spot (actually a length of line out of the tip) where the whole thing
seemed effortless to cast. Using the heads I'd only been able to manage 70
feet or so on this rod. Says something about getting the loading right
(and the crappy rod rating system)

Now to rustle up some 12wts ...

Steve