OT LIfe's a bitch
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...
and then you die.


Sad News. My condolences.

Wolfgang



my condolences to your family.

OT LIfe's a bitch
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
I know what you are talking about Ken lost my Dad to the cancer plus a
cousin
and a couple uncles....runs in the family i'm afraid.....i have blood work
done
on a regular bases....


I watched a very dear friend die of cancer 15 or so years ago. I was at his
bedside when he took his last labored breath. Jack was my best friend,
Jay's, father and a second father to me......hell he was a lot better than
my first....but that's another rant. Jack was a very ordinary man in every
respect and we all....many of us loved him. Those few of you who have
stayed in the cabin we built together in Michigan's UP have seen his picture
sitting on the mantle.

Anyway, I spent much of Jack's last couple of weeks in his company. He'd
gone from 250 pounds or thereabouts to little over a hundred in not much
more than a month. He was dazed and delirious, when conscious, much of the
time despite (or maybe because of) his refusal to take the morphine that sat
on the night stand beside his bed. It struck me at the time (and I still
think so now) that this was not a good way to die, but no worse or better
than any of the others I'd had any close contact with.

About a week ago I heard the tail end of a piece on public radio about a
group of oncology nurses who attended some sort of class or workshop or
something. At one point, they were apparently asked to fill out a
questionnaire of some sort. One of the questions asked them was how they
would like to die. Eighty percent stated that they would prefer cancer
above all other means of dying. There were a number of reasons given. Most
of them revolved more or less around the idea that they like the notion of
having time to say goodbye and take care of whatever business needed to be
done. They also felt that with the medications available today the pain
could be adequately managed. I don't remember the other reasons.

Most of us probably see it somewhat differently than they did.

Wolfgang
funny world

OT LIfe's a bitch
 

Enjoy yourself, boyos, it's later than you think.

My condolences.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

OT LIfe's a bitch
 

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:34:45 -0500, "Wolfgang"
wrote:

Most
of them revolved more or less around the idea that they like the notion of
having time to say goodbye and take care of whatever business needed to be
done. They also felt that with the medications available today the pain
could be adequately managed.

My dad died of a heart attack, almost instantly. My mom died of
cancer, the tumors had completely closed off her bowel and she
couldn't even have a drink of water, just an occasional chew of ice
she had to spit out. She had an IV of valium and morphine - the
maximum legal dose according to the doctor. Even though I was at her
side I can't imagine the pain she felt in spite of the drugs.

Ironically, my dad had the heart attack less than a year after my mom
was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and she outlived him by several
years - but neither lived to be as old as I am now.

I hope I go quick when it's time.
--
Charlie...

OT LIfe's a bitch
 

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

Most of us probably see it somewhat differently than they did.

Wolfgang
funny world



I don´t think its all that funny mostly, but sometimes it is. Modern ( yeah
well, if you can call opium modern)drugs are so good that the pain is not
really an issue. The worst thing is experiencing the fear that others have
of losing their minds, or becoming "junkies".

They don´t care about the pain, or even about dying, but they really care
about becoming a helpless gibbering vegetable, or even just losing control
of their normal bodily functions. For many, the first time they lose
control of their bowels,is the worst thing that ever happened to them. It
does not "hurt", but actually it hurts worse than anything else.It is
demeaning, to a massive extent, and is the first real sign that one is
dependent on others.

Anybody who has experience of people dying of cancer, and tells you he would
"prefer to die of cancer" is either a liar, or an abject fool.

Of course, perhaps I just see it differently.

TL
MC

OT LIfe's a bitch
 

"Charlie Choc" schrieb im
Newsbeitrag ...
I hope I go quick when it's time.
--
Charlie...

I will second that most emphatically.

TL
MC

OT LIfe's a bitch
 

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

Most of us probably see it somewhat differently than they did.

Wolfgang
funny world



I don´t think its all that funny mostly, but sometimes it is. Modern (
yeah
well, if you can call opium modern)drugs are so good that the pain is not
really an issue. The worst thing is experiencing the fear that others have
of losing their minds, or becoming "junkies".

They don´t care about the pain, or even about dying, but they really care
about becoming a helpless gibbering vegetable, or even just losing control
of their normal bodily functions. For many, the first time they lose
control of their bowels,is the worst thing that ever happened to them. It
does not "hurt", but actually it hurts worse than anything else.It is
demeaning, to a massive extent, and is the first real sign that one is
dependent on others.

Anybody who has experience of people dying of cancer, and tells you he
would
"prefer to die of cancer" is either a liar, or an abject fool.

Of course, perhaps I just see it differently.

The dying ends, eventually, for the dead. Not so for the living. I guess
there will always be differences of opinion concerning what lingers
longest......or hardest.

Jack Fisher spoke his last words about twenty-four hours before he died. He
had been lying mostly motionless, asleep or unconscious (for what the
difference is worth) for about two days. Suddenly, and entirely without
warning, he sat bolt upright in bed and made a horrible croaking noise. Jay
and I were both so shocked by the sudden levitation of Jack's cadaverous
form and the strange sounds emanating from his dry throat through a skeletal
face that we just sat there stunned, like we'd been hit with a ****ing
hammer, until on the third repetition we finally understood that he was
saying, "I gotta ****!"

We lifted him as gently as possible onto the bed pan and held him there for
several minutes until he passed out, having produced nothing worthy of note.
Gently, again, we laid him down on his back, crossed his arms on his chest
and covered him with a blanket. He never moved again.

Anyone witnessing the scene (there was actually no one else present) would
have agreed with the three of us (had it occurred to any of us to think
about it) that there was nothing the least bit amusing about the incident.
These day, whenever I think about, I have to suppress a snort and a giggle
(Jack would have too), and tears. :)

Wolfgang

OT LIfe's a bitch
 

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:17:00 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

and then you die.

http://www.legacy.com/Belleville/Leg...rsonId=2102693

My little sister's husband Tom, (funny how a 40-something woman is still my
"little" sister), and my dad were both diagnosed with terminal cancer on the
same day. How's that for stranger than fiction ? Dad died twelve days later
and that was merciful compared to what Tom went through these last months.

Enjoy yourself, boyos, it's later than you think.


Our condolences, Ken

Peter

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Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

OT LIfe's a bitch
 

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

Wolfgang



Strange, what happens. I have seen quite a few people die, and that is by
no means normal nowadays. Many die in hospital, or in the "old peoples
home" etc etc. It is no longer a "family thing". It is even difficult to
talk about it at all.

As you say, and have obviously experienced, ( although these things may
differ widely), it seems quite a few people take some time to die, as soon
as they actually start dying that is. In many cases, it seems to be
something that they more or less consciously decide to do, or some mechanism
takes over from their normal "geist" or "Verstand"( spirit?, "grasp of
life"?).

Arrrrggggghhhh! I am not sure that it is a good idea to even talk about it
on here, even if I could do it in a sensible and understandable manner.

Back to lurking, and keeping my too hasty mouth shut.

TL
MC

OT LIfe's a bitch
 

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...
As you say, and have obviously experienced, ( although these things may
differ widely), it seems quite a few people take some time to die, as soon
as they actually start dying that is. In many cases, it seems to be
something that they more or less consciously decide to do, or some
mechanism
takes over from their normal "geist" or "Verstand"( spirit?, "grasp of
life"?).

Arrrrggggghhhh! I am not sure that it is a good idea to even talk about
it
on here, even if I could do it in a sensible and understandable manner.

The hurt never really goes away. But time erodes the sharper edges.

I watched the full moon rise a couple of days ago, always one of my favorite
sights. I've seen it hundreds of times and each time it seems impossibly
large and near. Close up photographs, as we all now know, show a savage,
jagged, and ultimately forbidding place bereft of life or even the dimmest
hope of it. From my front stoop, and even with my corrected vision, it is a
fuzzy orange and warm looking ball, a perfectly round and beautifully lit
spectactle that exists for no better reason than my enjoyment on a warm
spring evening. The ancient Greeks were on to something. Perfection is
real enough, but it's out there somewhere.....and it's permanent. I know
(after a fashion) what it's really like up there but I never think about
that at times like this. Plenty of time for that, later.

Back to lurking, and keeping my too hasty mouth shut.

Plenty of time for that......later. :)

Wolfgang