OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"Tim J." wrote in news:10r8o6uof1hrha1
@news.supernews.com:


Hmmmm. . . haven't there been protests at *every* inauguration? Probably
not newsworthy (read: violent and loud) enough to cover.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj



Tim--

Have you seen the vid? This was many protesters throwing trash at the
presidential motorcade. It was a fairly rowdy scene, with the president
right at the center. Bush couldn't even leave the car to walk the last
bit, as is tradition. When citizens are throwing eggs at the president,
that's news. When placed in context of the level of contentiousness of the
election, the Supreme Court decisions, and so on, the absence of coverage
was inexusable.

Scott

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"Tim J." wrote in news:10r8o6uof1hrha1
@news.supernews.com:


Hmmmm. . . haven't there been protests at *every* inauguration? Probably
not newsworthy (read: violent and loud) enough to cover.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj



Tim--

Have you seen the vid? This was many protesters throwing trash at the
presidential motorcade. It was a fairly rowdy scene, with the president
right at the center. Bush couldn't even leave the car to walk the last
bit, as is tradition. When citizens are throwing eggs at the president,
that's news. When placed in context of the level of contentiousness of the
election, the Supreme Court decisions, and so on, the absence of coverage
was inexusable.

Scott

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

yfitons
wayno (modesty prohibits recitation of further detail)

Modesty or a court order?


--
Frank Reid
Euthanize to reply

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

yfitons
wayno (modesty prohibits recitation of further detail)

Modesty or a court order?


--
Frank Reid
Euthanize to reply

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

From: Scott Seidman

When placed in context of the level of contentiousness of the
election, the Supreme Court decisions, and so on, the absence of coverage
was inexusable.


Yeah, it's that damned extreme right wing media that messed that up. Jennings,
Rather, Matthews, and that whole neocon bunch oughta be horsewhipped.

Do you suppose that some rational Democrats, (I assume there are a few around),
saw such childish, moronic behavior as embarassing to their cause, and chose to
ignore it?

Grow up Scott.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

From: Scott Seidman

When placed in context of the level of contentiousness of the
election, the Supreme Court decisions, and so on, the absence of coverage
was inexusable.


Yeah, it's that damned extreme right wing media that messed that up. Jennings,
Rather, Matthews, and that whole neocon bunch oughta be horsewhipped.

Do you suppose that some rational Democrats, (I assume there are a few around),
saw such childish, moronic behavior as embarassing to their cause, and chose to
ignore it?

Grow up Scott.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Scott Seidman wrote:


Have you seen the vid? This was many protesters throwing trash at the
presidential motorcade. It was a fairly rowdy scene, with the president
right at the center. Bush couldn't even leave the car to walk the last
bit, as is tradition. When citizens are throwing eggs at the president,
that's news. When placed in context of the level of contentiousness of the
election, the Supreme Court decisions, and so on, the absence of coverage
was inexusable.


What is news? I've thought about this and it confuses the hell out of me.

I know that reporting news is money driven, like most things in the US, but
I also think that news goes beyond what sells the most papers or gets the
most viewers. Is news now solely defined by what sells?

In the US, our news is pretty much homogenized, at least in the "major"
outlets. The specific stories that make the news on a daily basis are
the same
in virtually every major paper, TV news broadcast, etc. This is even
true down to the "cutesy" stuff that is picked up.

Why, with all the events going on in the world, are only the same
handful of events covered by all the major sources?

And a couple other unrelated questions:

Why is tragedy in general news but extra ordinary good fortune not?

Why is a person that is murdered news but a person that saves a life isn't?

Don't you think that reporting "bad" things promotes more "bad" things and
wouldn't reporting of "good" things promote more "good" things?

Willi

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Scott Seidman wrote:
Tim J. wrote:

Hmmmm. . . haven't there been protests at *every* inauguration?
Probably not newsworthy (read: violent and loud) enough to cover.

Have you seen the vid?

No, but I plan to watch it one of these days for amusement purposes.
There just happen to be other movies that are more appealing to me right
now (I just LOVE The Bourne Identity / Supremacy). From what you
describe, it sounds rowdy enough to make the news. What do you suppose
caused it to be missed? My guess is that it must be the (vast)
right-wing agenda of the US and international media. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: Scott Seidman

When placed in context of the level of contentiousness of the
election, the Supreme Court decisions, and so on, the absence of
coverage
was inexusable.


Yeah, it's that damned extreme right wing media that messed that up.
Jennings,
Rather, Matthews, and that whole neocon bunch oughta be
horsewhipped.

Do you suppose that some rational Democrats, (I assume there are a
few around),
saw such childish, moronic behavior as embarassing to their cause,
and chose to
ignore it?

So, the radical rational wing of the Democratic party really DOES
control the news media?

Grow up Scott.

Get your head out of your ass, George.

Wolfgang

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: Scott Seidman

When placed in context of the level of contentiousness of the
election, the Supreme Court decisions, and so on, the absence of
coverage
was inexusable.


Yeah, it's that damned extreme right wing media that messed that up.
Jennings,
Rather, Matthews, and that whole neocon bunch oughta be
horsewhipped.

Do you suppose that some rational Democrats, (I assume there are a
few around),
saw such childish, moronic behavior as embarassing to their cause,
and chose to
ignore it?

So, the radical rational wing of the Democratic party really DOES
control the news media?

Grow up Scott.

Get your head out of your ass, George.

Wolfgang

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

On 06 Dec 2004 13:13:57 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:

Lazarus writes:

Actually, one of the (many) things that made me gag during the recent
election campaign was Kerry going on about "defending" his country. Who
was he defending it against? Hordes of little men in black pyjamas who
were sweeping through New England?


No. Actually it was one wounded VC teenager who was fleeing for his life and
Kerry shot him in the back and received a SS.

Dave, I'm no Kerry fan, but he even if what you say above is correct (and I'm
pretty sure it isn't), that VC wasn't in New England, he was in Vietnam and
Kerry was in combat. Kerry might have gotten into the service for no more
reason than future good for political career and then "oops-ed" his way into
combat, but he didn't run or hide and at least some of his men still think he
was a "hero." Whatever else, that should say something to you - as always,
though, YMMV.

TC,
R

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

From: "Wolfgang"

Get your head out of your ass, George.

It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise intelligent people can't seem to see
that some of the things they see as bolstering their cause, are the very things
that are causing them to lose credibility. Given the level of Bush's
vulnerability in this election, the fact that he actually gained support since
2000, should indicate fundamental problems in the Democratic party. If you
remove the "anybody but Bush" votes from the tally this year, I doubt Kerry got
35% of the popular vote as the candidate of choice.

Quit drinking the Kool Ade, and follow your own advice, Wolfgang.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: "Wolfgang"

Get your head out of your ass, George.

It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise intelligent people can't
seem to see
that some of the things they see as bolstering their cause, are the
very things
that are causing them to lose credibility. Given the level of Bush's
vulnerability in this election, the fact that he actually gained
support since
2000, should indicate fundamental problems in the Democratic party.
If you
remove the "anybody but Bush" votes from the tally this year, I
doubt Kerry got
35% of the popular vote as the candidate of choice.

It never ceases to amaze me that idiots have SO much trouble keeping
track of what is being discussed. What in the world would lead you to
the conclusion that I give a **** about anything contained in the
twaddle you provided above?

Quit drinking the Kool Ade, and follow your own advice, Wolfgang.

I'm drinking coffee this morning.....just like every other.

Wolfgang
who's got a shiny new nickel we will so no indication that george has
an idea of what we were talking about.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: "Wolfgang"

Get your head out of your ass, George.

It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise intelligent people can't
seem to see
that some of the things they see as bolstering their cause, are the
very things
that are causing them to lose credibility. Given the level of Bush's
vulnerability in this election, the fact that he actually gained
support since
2000, should indicate fundamental problems in the Democratic party.
If you
remove the "anybody but Bush" votes from the tally this year, I
doubt Kerry got
35% of the popular vote as the candidate of choice.

It never ceases to amaze me that idiots have SO much trouble keeping
track of what is being discussed. What in the world would lead you to
the conclusion that I give a **** about anything contained in the
twaddle you provided above?

Quit drinking the Kool Ade, and follow your own advice, Wolfgang.

I'm drinking coffee this morning.....just like every other.

Wolfgang
who's got a shiny new nickel we will so no indication that george has
an idea of what we were talking about.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Wolfgang wrote:
"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: "Wolfgang"

Get your head out of your ass, George.

It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise intelligent people can't
seem to see that some of the things they see as bolstering their
cause, are the very things that are causing them to lose
credibility. Given the level of Bush's vulnerability in this
election, the fact that he actually gained support since 2000,
should indicate fundamental problems in the Democratic party. If you
remove the "anybody but Bush" votes from the tally this year, I
doubt Kerry got 35% of the popular vote as the candidate of choice.

It never ceases to amaze me that idiots have SO much trouble keeping
track of what is being discussed. What in the world would lead you to
the conclusion that I give a **** about anything contained in the
twaddle you provided above?

Quit drinking the Kool Ade, and follow your own advice, Wolfgang.

I'm drinking coffee this morning.....just like every other.

Wolfgang
who's got a shiny new nickel we will so no indication that george has
an idea of what we were talking about.

Huh?
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Wolfgang wrote:
"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: "Wolfgang"

Get your head out of your ass, George.

It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise intelligent people can't
seem to see that some of the things they see as bolstering their
cause, are the very things that are causing them to lose
credibility. Given the level of Bush's vulnerability in this
election, the fact that he actually gained support since 2000,
should indicate fundamental problems in the Democratic party. If you
remove the "anybody but Bush" votes from the tally this year, I
doubt Kerry got 35% of the popular vote as the candidate of choice.

It never ceases to amaze me that idiots have SO much trouble keeping
track of what is being discussed. What in the world would lead you to
the conclusion that I give a **** about anything contained in the
twaddle you provided above?

Quit drinking the Kool Ade, and follow your own advice, Wolfgang.

I'm drinking coffee this morning.....just like every other.

Wolfgang
who's got a shiny new nickel we will so no indication that george has
an idea of what we were talking about.

Huh?
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

From: "Wolfgang"

Wolfgang
who's got a shiny new nickel we will so no indication that george has
an idea of what we were talking about.

I don't have the time or inclination to go any further with this, so you win.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

From: Scott Seidman

I try to keep my discourse noninflammatory, at least on a
personal level, and I'm sorry you choose not to do the same.

I apologize for the personal remark...I was out of order. The remainder of the
post stands however.

Did you see this footage? If
you did, perhaps you'd understand why I'm upset and shocked by the fact
that news coverage was so shielded. If you didn't, perhaps you should
consider reserving comment.

I didn't see the whole F-9/11 "documentary", but I did see the "demonstration"
part and thought it, as I said, to be childish and moronic. It may be that the
media decided not to present that face of our country to the rest of the world.
And yes, I believe there are responsible Democrats in and out of the media. I
just wish it was these folks who were in charge of the Democratic party.

EOT for me.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:
"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: "Wolfgang"

Get your head out of your ass, George.

It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise intelligent people
can't
seem to see that some of the things they see as bolstering their
cause, are the very things that are causing them to lose
credibility. Given the level of Bush's vulnerability in this
election, the fact that he actually gained support since 2000,
should indicate fundamental problems in the Democratic party. If
you
remove the "anybody but Bush" votes from the tally this year, I
doubt Kerry got 35% of the popular vote as the candidate of
choice.

It never ceases to amaze me that idiots have SO much trouble
keeping
track of what is being discussed. What in the world would lead
you to
the conclusion that I give a **** about anything contained in the
twaddle you provided above?

Quit drinking the Kool Ade, and follow your own advice, Wolfgang.

I'm drinking coffee this morning.....just like every other.

Wolfgang
who's got a shiny new nickel we will so no indication that george
has
an idea of what we were talking about.

Huh?

See what I mean? Inject just a little bit of nonsense and people
notice.

Wolfgang

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:
"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: "Wolfgang"

Get your head out of your ass, George.

It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise intelligent people
can't
seem to see that some of the things they see as bolstering their
cause, are the very things that are causing them to lose
credibility. Given the level of Bush's vulnerability in this
election, the fact that he actually gained support since 2000,
should indicate fundamental problems in the Democratic party. If
you
remove the "anybody but Bush" votes from the tally this year, I
doubt Kerry got 35% of the popular vote as the candidate of
choice.

It never ceases to amaze me that idiots have SO much trouble
keeping
track of what is being discussed. What in the world would lead
you to
the conclusion that I give a **** about anything contained in the
twaddle you provided above?

Quit drinking the Kool Ade, and follow your own advice, Wolfgang.

I'm drinking coffee this morning.....just like every other.

Wolfgang
who's got a shiny new nickel we will so no indication that george
has
an idea of what we were talking about.

Huh?

See what I mean? Inject just a little bit of nonsense and people
notice.

Wolfgang

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"George Adams" wrote in message
...

From: "Wolfgang"

Wolfgang
who's got a shiny new nickel we will so no indication that george
has
an idea of what we were talking about.

I don't have the time or inclination to go any further with this, so
you win.

Au contraire, fool, we all lose.

Wolfgang
who doesn't for a minute believe the lie about time.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Kevin Vang wrote:

It's beyond me how Republicans can use words like "integrity" and
"responsibility" anymore except as a bitter ironic joke.

The really scary part is that they believe their own bull****.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

In article , george9219
@aol.comnojunk says...
And yes, I believe there are responsible Democrats in and out of the media. I
just wish it was these folks who were in charge of the Democratic party.


That seems to be the meme of the moment: Republicans weeping crocodile
tears about how they wish the "responsible" Democrats "with integrity"
were the ones in charge of the party. But on the other hand, take a
good long look at who has hijacked control of your own damn party.
You got Dubya, a dried-out alcoholic cokehead C student who skipped
out on the National Guard and failed at every business his daddy's
friends put him in charge of, Dick Cheney, who damn near managed to
bankrupt Halliburton in spite of all the sweetheart deals he managed
to bring in, John Ashcroft, who lost a Senate race to a dead man,
soon to be replaced by Alberto "Geneva Convention? What Geneva
Convention" Gonzalez, Karl Rove, a guy who leaves a trail of slime
wherever he goes, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz, and Feith managing to completely
screw up a war they started for reasons which seem to change every week,
and a whole bunch of suckup yes-men in the White House, since everybody
who goes off-message gets fired. Then you got a thug like Tom
"Indictment? What indictment?" DeLay running the Senate and getting
rules the Republicans wrote changed so he can keep his committe
positions, and Trent Lott and their trained poodles Hastert and Frist
et al drafting legislation in secret and not even bothering to let the
Dems see it before it goes to a vote... how long do I need to go on?

It's beyond me how Republicans can use words like "integrity" and
"responsibility" anymore except as a bitter ironic joke.

--
reply to: kevin dot vang at minotstateu dot edu

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Tim J. wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:
Lazarus writes:

Actually, one of the (many) things that made me gag during the
recent
election campaign was Kerry going on about "defending" his
country.
Who was he defending it against? Hordes of little men in black
pyjamas who were sweeping through New England?

No. Actually it was one wounded VC teenager who was fleeing for
his
life and Kerry shot him in the back and received a SS.

Dave, IMHO you really should give this a rest. It serves no purpose.
I've never served in the military and have certainly never been in a
"kill or be killed" weapons exchange, but I can only imagine the
horror
and fear that accompanies that sort of situation. The political
campaigns to smear both candidates military records sickened me. I'm
sure Kerry did what he thought he had to do at the time based on his
circumstances, and neither you nor I will know for sure what
warranted
his actions.

I disliked Kerry's actions after he returned from war, his stances on
certain issues, and especially his Senate voting record, but I see no
reason to question his history while in the military. In fact, at
this
point, I see no value in discussing ANY of this. The election is over
-
time to move forward.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Don't be to hard on Dave. It's a rare talent to know so much about
things you haven't experienced or know of first hand. Prehaps before
he's dead he'll pass the secret on to us. You probably have to wear the
seat out of many uniforms to achieve such mystical powers. Maby he'll
go to this page and tell us which of these people deserve the honors
they have gotten.
http://www.cmohs.org/
It may be more difficult because a lot of them hadn' registerd to vote
so there is probably no record of their political party. About half of
them couldn't register after they got their medal.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Jonathan Cook wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:

I'm drinking coffee this morning.....just like every other.

Try that flavored stuff...it's a little different.

Mmmmm. . . Kahlua.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

BJ writes:

http://www.cmohs.org/

Have you ever spoken with a MOH recipient? Sat down with one, had a beer, and
talked for any length of time? And then repeat it, week, after week, after
week?

I have. He didn't speak once about his exploits. NOT ONCE!!!! He didn't cry
out, "Reporting for duty." He didn't constantly say he defended his country.
In fact, he never ONCE said anything like that. And, he never once said
anything derogatory about those he served with. When asked about his exploits
on Porkchop Hill during the Korean war, Col. Millet would only say that he was
there and did his job. He was also gravely wounded and DID NOT asked to be
sent home.

Read about Lew Millet at
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohkor2.htm

I served with him for two years and had more than my fair share of martinis
with the man. He is a hero. Kerry is not.



Kerry is a phoney. He did NOT voluteer for river patrol, but rather
volunteered for coastal patrol, an easy see-no-combat position. When he was
transferred to the river patrol, he was angry and did not want to go.

You do not get a PH for self-inflicted wounds, and two of his so-call "wounds"
had to be self inflicted. You do not get a SS for chasing down a wounded
un-armed VC teenager and shooting him in the back. Your hero is a phoney, and
some day, the questions regarding his discharge will be answered, and you ain't
gonna like 'em.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
...he never once said
anything derogatory about those he served with...

Thus distinguishing himself from a true hero we all know all too well.

Wolfgang
the invisible man. :)

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"Jonathan Cook" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:

I'm drinking coffee this morning.....just like every other.

Try that flavored stuff...it's a little different.

I used to be fond of hazelnut. Still love the nuts, but can't abide
flavored coffees.

(and both of you ought to go fishing!)

Well, *I* probably should. See, ya'll think I don't realize that it's
mean to tease the merchants of death and give them boo boos........but
I do.

Wolfgang

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"rw" wrote in message
...
Kevin Vang wrote:

It's beyond me how Republicans can use words like "integrity" and
"responsibility" anymore except as a bitter ironic joke.

The really scary part is that they believe their own bull****.

Some of them do. The rest simply put party loyalty above human
decency.

Wolfgang

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

On 06 Dec 2004 13:13:57 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:


No. Actually it was one wounded VC teenager who was fleeing for his life and
Kerry shot him in the back and received a SS.


It's statements like this that show that with all your talk
of "honor", you come up very short in that department.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Greg P. writes:

It's statements like this that show that with all your talk
of "honor", you come up very short in that department.

One problem, Mr. Socialist. What I said is true. He then returns the next day
with a camera and "records" his exploits. The man is a phony. And YOU, of all
people, shouldn't even SPEAK of honor. You wouldn't know honor if it bit you
in your red ass.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Greg P. writes:

It's statements like this that show that with all your talk
of "honor", you come up very short in that department.

One problem, Mr. Socialist. What I said is true. He then returns
the next day
with a camera and "records" his exploits. The man is a phony. And
YOU, of all
people, shouldn't even SPEAK of honor. You wouldn't know honor if
it bit you
in your red ass.

Then too, I know I'm not the only one here who has seen.....live and
in person.....our great and honorable pacifist chief fly into a rage
over um.......hm......what was it? The best route between
Massachusetts and western North Carolina? :)

Wolfgang

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

One problem, Mr. Socialist. What I said is true. He then returns
the next day
with a camera and "records" his exploits. The man is a phony. And
YOU, of all
people, shouldn't even SPEAK of honor. You wouldn't know honor if it
bit you
in your red ass.

Dave:

Tim and Richie said it best. And they're on your side.

My retired CPO Father disagrees significantly with your viewpoint. And
he wasn't there either. So you being a retired CPO does not make you
all knowing of this issue nor does it my father. I would tend to put
more stock in what his immediate shipmates say than what others state
or postulate but I was not there and did not live the military life as
stated in many previous posts.

Whatever you believe about the man it does not matter, he didnt' win
the election. I personally think you're wrong and approaching libel
with your disdain for Kerry. You think otherwise. But if those wounds
were self inflicted, it would have come up long before this past
election.

While I have the same disdain for W that you have for Kerry,
unfortunately his campaign strategy was better and he won the election,
so we've got to live with it.

But I curious, if as you state, Kerry doesn't deserve a purple heart,
what about "friendly fire" deaths and wounds? Are those wounded and
dead military members any more or less deserving of medals and
acknowledgement because they were wounded as the result of an accident?
Do we tell the families that the boys and girls shouldn't have been
there because our side was shooting there? While I'm told there is
sometimes military discipline for repeated or negligent instances, we
don't hear too often of the folks making the mistaken shots getting
court martialed and sentenced for homicide?
Inquiring minds want to know.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Wayne Knight writes:

Tim and Richie said it best. And they're on your side.

My retired CPO Father disagrees significantly with your viewpoint. And
he wasn't there either. So you being a retired CPO does not make you
all knowing of this issue nor does it my father. I would tend to put
more stock in what his immediate shipmates say than what others state
or postulate but I was not there and did not live the military life as
stated in many previous posts.
'
Most vets I know share my views. It isn';t so much what he did in Nam, but
what he did when he returned. None of that was honorable. He threw away his
medals and then lied about his brothers who were still fighting in Nam. And
all for what -- political recognition.

Whatever you believe about the man it does not matter, he didnt' win
the election. I personally think you're wrong and approaching libel
with your disdain for Kerry. You think otherwise. But if those wounds
were self inflicted,

No "IF about it, Wayne. His own men have said there was no enemy contact when
he got his first scratch. None. NO enemy contact. He fired a grenade
launcher and it exploded near enough to him for him to pick up a very small
pice of its shrapnel. Even the treating doctor said it was US shrapnel. And,
you get rice removed from your ass only because you threw a grenade into the
rice pile and didn't get away quick enough.

it would have come up long before this past
election.


It did. In his Senate races. The Boston Globe did an expose about your boy,
including his generousity toward others less fortunate than he, and receiving
free apartments and cars from Boston businessmen.

While I have the same disdain for W that you have for Kerry,
unfortunately his campaign strategy was better and he won the election,
so we've got to live with it.

His campaign strategy was based on lies from day one. Given that 70% (number
from recent press articles) of those that voted for him did so ONLY because
they were voting against Bush, that leaves him with a very pathetically small
league of followers.

But I curious, if as you state, Kerry doesn't deserve a purple heart,
what about "friendly fire" deaths and wounds?

Apples and oranges. Self inflicted wounds do not count. I believe friendly
fire wounds would because you are engaging the enemy and mistakes are made. It
is not the fact that he received self inflicted wounds (unintentionally), but
the fact that he tried to take advantage of it. It says much about his
character.

Are those wounded and
dead military members any more or less deserving of medals and
acknowledgement because they were wounded as the result of an accident?

No.

Do we tell the families that the boys and girls shouldn't have been
there because our side was shooting there? While I'm told there is
sometimes military discipline for repeated or negligent instances, we
don't hear too often of the folks making the mistaken shots getting
court martialed and sentenced for homicide?
Inquiring minds want to know.

I would like to know also. But none of your last remarks apply to Kerry. If
he received superficial self-inflicted wounds, he shouldn't have tried to get
a PH for them. Getting a few grains of rice removed from you buttocks is not a
combat wound, especially when you fired the grenade. People are killed
accidentially in war. A neighbor's USMC son was killed in a helicopter
accident. There was no PH.

More than 100 pages of Kerry's military records have never been released. He
refused to have them released. On the one item that he did release, his
discharge, the date is stamped long after he got out, and states he got a
discharge after a "review by a board of officers". Uh, it don't work that way.
A board of officers has nothing to do with your discharge, and it is dated at
the time of your discharge, not two years later.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Read, Ken, read. Few of those that served with him backed up his version. And
others in boats with him on patrol didn't see the stuff that he "saw". Why
won't he release the remaining 100 pages of his military records, including a
*valid* discharge, not one reviews by a board of officers and signed by Jimmy
Carter two years after his discharge.

Like I said, get the 7 iron out of your eyesight and perhaps you'll be able to
see better.

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Wayne Knight wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:

One problem, Mr. Socialist. What I said is true. He then returns
the next day with a camera and "records" his exploits. The man is a
phony. And YOU, of all people, shouldn't even SPEAK of honor. You
wouldn't know honor if it bit you in your red ass.

Dave:

Tim and Richie said it best. And they're on your side.

Richie can speak for himself, but Tim is on Tim's side. ;-) I'm tired
of all the vitriol from either/both sides of the political aisle, and
probably just worn down from a pretty intense political year. The way I
see it, and IMHO, most of roff is a *LOT* closer to that aisle than
distanced from it, with the exception of a few. I'd like to think (and I
could be WAY wrong) that I would enjoy visiting with just about anyone
here and discussing life, love, music, fishing, and whatever is in
between (and that doesn't leave much) without becoming a screaming
maniac for a political cause, or being screamed at because of my views.
My slant on life comes from what influenced me over many years, and
there's not to much anyone else can do to change that. Realizing this, I
don't waste much time talking politics and expecting to change OP's
views. When I see people here coming off the rails over something as
unimportant as whether or not a failed presidential candidate served
honorably in the military, it gives me pause to consider the motive. Is
there any?

But, hey, if it makes you happy then carry on.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Wayne Knight wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:

One problem, Mr. Socialist. What I said is true. He then returns
the next day with a camera and "records" his exploits. The man is a
phony. And YOU, of all people, shouldn't even SPEAK of honor. You
wouldn't know honor if it bit you in your red ass.

Dave:

Tim and Richie said it best. And they're on your side.

Richie can speak for himself, but Tim is on Tim's side. ;-) I'm tired
of all the vitriol from either/both sides of the political aisle, and
probably just worn down from a pretty intense political year. The way I
see it, and IMHO, most of roff is a *LOT* closer to that aisle than
distanced from it, with the exception of a few. I'd like to think (and I
could be WAY wrong) that I would enjoy visiting with just about anyone
here and discussing life, love, music, fishing, and whatever is in
between (and that doesn't leave much) without becoming a screaming
maniac for a political cause, or being screamed at because of my views.
My slant on life comes from what influenced me over many years, and
there's not to much anyone else can do to change that. Realizing this, I
don't waste much time talking politics and expecting to change OP's
views. When I see people here coming off the rails over something as
unimportant as whether or not a failed presidential candidate served
honorably in the military, it gives me pause to consider the motive. Is
there any?

But, hey, if it makes you happy then carry on.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
Read, Ken, read. Few of those that served with him backed up his version.

I don't know what in the hell you're reading, but whatever it is,
it's demonstrably false.

Like I said, get the 7 iron out of your eyesight and perhaps you'll be able to
see better.

I can see and read just fine and I make it a discipline to read
opposing views and opinions like those in The National Review and
The Weekly Standard regularly. The lying crap you've been spreading
around here does not come from reputable sources and only a fool
would believe that nonsense or state it as fact in a public forum.

--
Ken Fortenberry