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Tail end of the Pmd hatch
On 7/26/06 7:51 AM, in article , "Conan The
Librarian" wrote: Maybe we should talk about handtools vs. powertools instead. :-) Well, you gotta at least pick something that is debatable! Dewey vs. LC? :-) Bill |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
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Tail end of the Pmd hatch
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Tail end of the Pmd hatch
"Kevin Vang" wrote in message t... In article , says... Maybe we should talk about handtools vs. powertools instead. :-) Well, you gotta at least pick something that is debatable! I'll start! We just tore down our deck and re-built it, the old deck having succumbed to a terminal case of dry rot. I suppose that I could have built it without a reciprocating saw, circular saw, compound miter saw, cordless electric drill, air compressor and pneumatic framing nailer, but I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to. I will admit to feeling virtuous when I watch a paper thin shaving curl up out of a handplane, but I don't think that cross cutting 2x6's with hand saw would give me the same warm fuzzy feeling, especially not when it's 95 out. Hm...... Well, a compressor and a couple few pneumatic nailers are certainly "must have" tools, but for a deck? We just built our own deck a couple of weeks ago. This was our first major project in a couple of years (the fence we did last summer doesn't really qualify as "major"). Prior to that, we built about 8 decks and 2 16 foot gazebos over the course of the last 7 years. The only time we used nails was for joist hangers and for shingles on the gazebos. Everything else is done with screws.....well, except for a few carriage bolts on the framing. A boy MUST have dedicated electric screw shooters, and cordless (as handy as they are for other applications) simply will not do. "Reciprocating saw" is kinda vague. In fact, a boy needs both a Sawzall (Milwaukee Electric Tool's proprietary name for their product......and Milwaukee still makes the best on the market) for heavy duty work, and a smaller portable jig saw for tight curves, stop cuts, etc. And where the hell are your belt sander, electric planer, disc grinder, hammer drill, heavy duty 1/2 inch drill, etc.? Kevin (and yes, I know that building a deck isn't really woodworking...) Sacrilege! :( Wolfgang |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
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Tail end of the Pmd hatch
On 7/26/06 11:28 AM, in article
, "Kevin Vang" wrote: In article , says... Maybe we should talk about handtools vs. powertools instead. :-) Well, you gotta at least pick something that is debatable! I'll start! We just tore down our deck and re-built it, the old deck having succumbed to a terminal case of dry rot. I suppose that I could have built it without a reciprocating saw, circular saw, compound miter saw, cordless electric drill, air compressor and pneumatic framing nailer, but I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to. I guess that's why they make both chocolate AND vanilla. :-) I will admit to feeling virtuous when I watch a paper thin shaving curl up out of a handplane, but Virtuous? Hell, it gives some folks an orgasm! I don't think that cross cutting 2x6's with hand saw would give me the same warm fuzzy feeling, especially not when it's 95 out. While it is not debatable that doing so wouldn't give Kevin Vang the same warm fuzzies, some may disagree, and rightfully so. I'll admit to using each and every one of those tools you list (some more than others) but at the end of the day, while I'll stand back and have a certain feeling of satisfaction of a job well done, I won't get any warm fuzzy feelings. I would suggest that you try x-cutting some 2x stock with a well sharpened hand saw- preferably a comfy-handled vintage Disston- and see what you think. I'll suggest that if you do, you might well stand back from the saw horses and think "I did THAT? That EASILY? With a HAND saw?" Or, then again, you might not. :-) I'll also add that if speed in finishing a project is important to you, hand tool carpentry might not be the way to go. Currently I'm working on* a firewood crib. I'm using the project to practice timber framing and am primarily relying on hand tool joinery. I started last summer. It isn't even standing yet. But I'll have warm fuzzies not just when it is done, but during as well. And the usual plusses of hand tool work apply- the kids can help, the cat doesn't disappear three backyards away, I can work early morning or evening without ****ing off the neighbors, ... (and yes, I know that building a deck isn't really woodworking...) Ain't no shame in carpentry. No more'n in fishing streamers. :-) Bill *So in this case, "working on" means the timbers are out back, the design is in my head, and I'm just waiting for some cooler weather to really have at it. |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
William Claspy wrote:
On 7/26/06 11:28 AM, in article , "Kevin Vang" wrote: I will admit to feeling virtuous when I watch a paper thin shaving curl up out of a handplane, but Virtuous? Hell, it gives some folks an orgasm! I dunno about orgasms, but there is a certain tactile pleasure to seeing a one-sided shaving go floating towards the ceiling and then being able to see your reflection in the surface left on the board. Especially if it's some really nasty quilted maple or curly koa or such. And a "paper thin" shaving is *way* too thick. :-) I don't think that cross cutting 2x6's with hand saw would give me the same warm fuzzy feeling, especially not when it's 95 out. While it is not debatable that doing so wouldn't give Kevin Vang the same warm fuzzies, some may disagree, and rightfully so. I'll admit to using each and every one of those tools you list (some more than others) but at the end of the day, while I'll stand back and have a certain feeling of satisfaction of a job well done, I won't get any warm fuzzy feelings. I would suggest that you try x-cutting some 2x stock with a well sharpened hand saw- preferably a comfy-handled vintage Disston- and see what you think. I'll suggest that if you do, you might well stand back from the saw horses and think "I did THAT? That EASILY? With a HAND saw?" Or, then again, you might not. :-) When I built my workbench I ripped all the wood for it with a nicely-tuned no-name ripsaw. Nothing like handsawing 15 5'+ long 2x strips to keep you warm on a cold(ish) January day in Texas. :-) Of course my neighbor drove by while I was working, saw me leaning over my ripping horse (different beast from a pain old "sawhorse") and hollered out, "Ya need to getya a skilsaur, Chuck". After I shot him the finger it dawned on me that not everyone might think of what I was doing as good exercise ... or totally sane, for that matter. :-) I'll also add that if speed in finishing a project is important to you, hand tool carpentry might not be the way to go. Currently I'm working on* a firewood crib. I'm using the project to practice timber framing and am primarily relying on hand tool joinery. I started last summer. It isn't even standing yet. But I'll have warm fuzzies not just when it is done, but during as well. And the usual plusses of hand tool work apply- the kids can help, the cat doesn't disappear three backyards away, I can work early morning or evening without ****ing off the neighbors, ... Amen. I can listen to the birds, and many's the time I've been working away only to look up and see a deer or three no more than 10-15' away staring at me intently. Of course, they might also be thinking I need to get me a skilsaw. It's hard to tell with them. Another true story: I had been working away on whatever the project du jour was, while some wasps were going about their business building a nest right on the garage overhang. They didn't bother me ... I didn't bother them. I got my routah out to do some roundingovah with my roundingovah bit (tm, Nahm), and as soon as I fired it up, I had a bunch of ****ed off wasps. Must have been the wrong frequency (Kenneth) or something. When I stopped the routah they went back to their business. (and yes, I know that building a deck isn't really woodworking...) Ain't no shame in carpentry. No more'n in fishing streamers. :-) Ahem. :-) Bill *So in this case, "working on" means the timbers are out back, the design is in my head, and I'm just waiting for some cooler weather to really have at it. Hey, if that's the criteria, I've got a dozen projects I'm working on. :-) Chuck Vance (wait until I tell SWMBO ... she'll be delighted) |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
On 7/26/06 1:47 PM, in article , "Conan The
Librarian" wrote: I got my routah out to do some roundingovah with my roundingovah bit They make a round-over bit for the #71 now??? :-) B (sorry guys, we could go on like this for DAYS!) |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
William Claspy wrote:
On 7/26/06 1:47 PM, in article , "Conan The Librarian" wrote: I got my routah out to do some roundingovah with my roundingovah bit They make a round-over bit for the #71 now??? :-) If they don't already, I figure Robin Lee is working on it. :-) B (sorry guys, we could go on like this for DAYS!) Well it sure beats the hell outta watching those old C&R re-runs go around in Tim's head again. Chuck Vance (so, you buy any new old tools lately?) |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
Conan The Librarian typed:
William Claspy wrote: On 7/26/06 1:47 PM, in article , "Conan The Librarian" wrote: I got my routah out to do some roundingovah with my roundingovah bit They make a round-over bit for the #71 now??? If they don't already, I figure Robin Lee is working on it. :-) (sorry guys, we could go on like this for DAYS!) Well it sure beats the hell outta watching those old C&R re-runs go around in Tim's head again. Chuck Vance (so, you buy any new old tools lately?) The very least you two could do is stop cross-posting. . . or get a room. ;-) -- TL, Tim ------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
"Wolfgang" wrote in message ... And where the hell are your belt sander, electric planer, disc grinder, hammer drill, heavy duty 1/2 inch drill, etc.? Kevin (and yes, I know that building a deck isn't really woodworking...) Sacrilege! :( Wolfgang I find that the handiest of battery operated tools is the port-a-band saw that we have at work. We have one for each service truck. The 28 volt hammer drills "Milwaukee" are pretty decent too. Op |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
"William Claspy" wrote in message ... On 7/26/06 12:52 PM, in article , "Wolfgang" wrote: "Reciprocating saw" is kinda vague. In fact, a boy needs both a Sawzall (Milwaukee Electric Tool's proprietary name for their product......and Milwaukee still makes the best on the market) Oh, I dunno, my Bosch Panther recip is pretty nice. Bill (d'oh! Did I say that out loud??? :-) Bosch makes one hell of a nice *CUBE* construction radio/cd player. We had a Bosch tools demo-day at the shop a month or so ago. The guy borrows one of my supervisor's cds (it was the only copy of his father playin' banjo, mandolin, dobro, slide guitar, and various other string instruments. The guy picks up the "CUBE" and slings it 30' across the shop floor. It never skipped a beat. I was impressed! Op |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
"pittendrigh" wrote in message oups.com... ...got a few new photos, from Saturday, of the tail end of the Pmd hatch on the spring creeks near Livingston, MT. One of the things I noticed was how remarkably yellow these little mayflies look at a distance, and how much greener and grayer they look close up. http://montana-riverboats.com/Pages/.../RealBugs.html "But it does appear to me that many, if not most Pmd imitations are tied a lot yellower than the way the real bug looks" That shouldn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing, even though it might be. LaFontaine had some interesting insights into that in his "Dry Fly" book. It's possible for a fish to prefer an inexact imitation over a natural (well, until he mouths it :-) ) |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
jeffc wrote:
"pittendrigh" wrote in message oups.com... ...got a few new photos, from Saturday, of the tail end of the Pmd hatch on the spring creeks near Livingston, MT. One of the things I noticed was how remarkably yellow these little mayflies look at a distance, and how much greener and grayer they look close up. http://montana-riverboats.com/Pages/.../RealBugs.html "But it does appear to me that many, if not most Pmd imitations are tied a lot yellower than the way the real bug looks" That shouldn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing, even though it might be. LaFontaine had some interesting insights into that in his "Dry Fly" book. It's possible for a fish to prefer an inexact imitation over a natural (well, until he mouths it :-) ) I'm a firm believer in the "super stimulus" approach. Give the fish something a little bigger and a little flashier than the natural. It sure works for wild cutthroat and brook trout, but maybe not as well for finicky, educated, rhythmically feeding rainbows and browns. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
rw wrote: I'm a firm believer in the "super stimulus" approach. Give the fish something a little bigger and a little flashier than the natural. I like the super stimulus approach too.....big hoppers, for instance, are similar to magnum-size goose decoys. Somewhat related is the "different look" idead for "finicky, educated, rhythmically feeding rainbows and browns." Different looks: http://montana-riverboats.com/Pages/.../Mayflies.html |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
"pittendrigh" wrote in message oups.com... rw wrote: I'm a firm believer in the "super stimulus" approach. Give the fish something a little bigger and a little flashier than the natural. I like the super stimulus approach too.....big hoppers, for instance, are similar to magnum-size goose decoys. Somewhat related is the "different look" idead for "finicky, educated, rhythmically feeding rainbows and browns." "Super stimulus" doesn't have to mean bigger or flashier. It can mean different in any way, but often it's a charicture, with an emphasis on something that might not be related to size or flash. It could be blacker, or smaller, or reflective of light in a different way, or..... |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
jeffc wrote:
"pittendrigh" wrote in message oups.com... rw wrote: I'm a firm believer in the "super stimulus" approach. Give the fish something a little bigger and a little flashier than the natural. I like the super stimulus approach too.....big hoppers, for instance, are similar to magnum-size goose decoys. Somewhat related is the "different look" idead for "finicky, educated, rhythmically feeding rainbows and browns." "Super stimulus" doesn't have to mean bigger or flashier. It can mean different in any way, but often it's a charicture, with an emphasis on something that might not be related to size or flash. It could be blacker, or smaller, or reflective of light in a different way, or..... A "super stimulus" is essentially an exaggeration of a stimulus that elicits a response in its natural form. I believe it's behind the effectiveness of most large attractor flies that don't closely represent any particular bug. Examples are Stimulators (naturally), Madam X, Turk's Tarantulas, and so on. These patterns are often effective during the heat of the day when the trout aren't actively feeding. I think it would be very unlikely for a SMALLER fly than the natural to provide a super stimulus. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
rw wrote:
A "super stimulus" is essentially an exaggeration of a stimulus that elicits a response in its natural form. I believe it's behind the effectiveness of most large attractor flies that don't closely represent any particular bug. Examples are Stimulators (naturally), Madam X, Turk's Tarantulas, and so on. These patterns are often effective during the heat of the day when the trout aren't actively feeding. I think it would be very unlikely for a SMALLER fly than the natural to provide a super stimulus. I just found this example on Wikipedia. It's pretty funny: "An episode of the PBS science show NOVA showed an Australian beetle species whose males were sexually attracted to large and orange females—the larger and oranger the better. This became a problem when the males started to attempt to mate with certain beer bottles that were just the right color. The males were more attracted to the bottles than actual females." -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Tail end of the Pmd hatch
"rw" wrote in message m... I think it would be very unlikely for a SMALLER fly than the natural to provide a super stimulus. Not sure if I'm off on the wrong track because of some special meaning of "super stimulus" as opposed to stimulus. I picked up some of this stuff from LaFontaine, like I mentioned. An example of a smaller fly providing the "key attractant" might be when there are 2 flies on the water, say a 14 and a 16. The trout are keying on the smaller fly. An "exaggeration" of the smaller fly in a size 18 might provide the "super stimulus" the trout needs to prefer it over the natural size 16s, since the trout is keyed on looking for the smaller fly, and the size 18 stands out like a sore thumb from the size 14s in helping them choose, while the size 16s are closer in size and more confusing. |
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