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Tuna salad anyone? Death of a Tuna and Deathof a Whale
pearl wrote:
"Rodney Long" wrote in message ... pearl wrote: TELL ME, WOULD YOU LET YOUR CHILD DIE, IF AN ANIMAL'S DEATH COULD SAVE IT ?????????????????????????????????????? Not in that position. Are you? Sorry I missed that at the bottom Tell us.. Will you let people continue to die, if quitting your meat habit could save them? Hay, what I eat has nothing to do with anyone but me, Aren't you forgetting about the animals? Don't they count? NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not letting anyone do anything, and I'm not keeping them from doing anything, am I going them to force them to stop eating meat,,,, hell no , that's up to them, but all they need to do is change their meat consumption from beef and pork to chicken , fish, and goat. all of which is "good" for ANYONE You appear to be very keen on promoting it, ignoring studies. Far From it, I'm ignoring studies that have the answer, before they asked the questions Do you agree to let them test drugs on animals, and kill the animals, so your child can live ? Absolutely not. BINGO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got ya, You have been brain washed, you claim compassion, yet you would let your own child die, so a "rat" could live, you have no compassion, you have no love, you have no "humanity" I'm sorry, but your pond scum "I cannot name one single case in which experiments on animals may have led to a useful result." HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Man you have been throughly brain washed Dr med. Philippe Grin, G.P., Video Interview with CIVIS, July 1 1986. "I am of the opinion that all experiments on animals should be abolished because they only lead us to error." Dr Marie-Louise Griboval, April 1987. Hans Ruesch, One Thousand Doctors (and many more) Against Vivisection. "As a physician, I am definitely opposed to animal experiments. They are totally useless, they don't contribute in any way to progress of medicine." Dr med. Jurg Kym, Physicians Have the Word, ATRA, December 1986. Hans Ruesch, One Thousand Doctors (and many more) Against Vivisection. "My own conviction is that the study of human physiology by way of experiments on animals is the most grotesque and fantastic error ever committed in the whole range of human intellectual activity." Dr G. F. Walker, Medical World, December 1933. http://www.health.org.nz/foreartl.html http://www.health.org.nz/contents.html Adverse reactions to pharmaceutical drugs are -at least- the fourth leading cause of death in the West. Surprise? Here are your brain washers,, from 10's of thousands of "real" doctors, you have a select few that have been laughed out of the profession Good by,, Looser -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
Tuna salad anyone? Death of a Tuna and Death of a Whale
"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
pearl wrote: "Rodney Long" wrote in message ... pearl wrote: TELL ME, WOULD YOU LET YOUR CHILD DIE, IF AN ANIMAL'S DEATH COULD SAVE IT ?????????????????????????????????????? Not in that position. Are you? Sorry I missed that at the bottom Tell us.. Will you let people continue to die, if quitting your meat habit could save them? Hay, what I eat has nothing to do with anyone but me, Aren't you forgetting about the animals? Don't they count? NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 'Taking Animals Seriously Mental Life and Moral Status by David DeGrazia review Most people who approach Taking Animals Seriously will share an unspoken presupposition. This is that animal activists take animals too seriously. They lack a sense of proportion. It's not that gratuitous cruelty to members of other species is morally defensible. Surely it isn't. If pressed, then all but the amoral, sociopathic or philosophically bewitched are likely to grant that wanton animal-abuse is best discouraged. Instead, the pervasive assumption is simply that animal suffering doesn't really matter much compared to the things that happen to human beings - to us. They, after all, are only animals: objects rather than our fellow subjects. Animal consciousness, insofar as it exists at all, is minimal and uninteresting. Contrast one's likely reaction on learning that the infant or toddler next door is being abused. Let's suppose that the abuse is being inflicted for fun or profit - or, more broadly, for purposes that can be described only as frivolous. In such a case, then one's intuitions are equally clear. The suffering of the victim has to be taken very seriously. One has a duty actively to prevent it. The interests of the child take precedence over the wishes of the abuser. In extreme cases, the adults involved in persistent abuse may need to be legally restrained or even locked up. Indeed, it is cases of failure on our part to take action to prevent it - or failure to take action by the social services or child-protection agencies - that demand justification. To treat the suffering caused by child-abuse lightly would be to show a sense of disproportion when confronted with the nature of the practices involved - and our capacity to do something about them. Yet here lies the crux. After Darwin, a huge and accumulating convergence of physiological, behavioural, genetic and evolutionary evidence suggests - but cannot prove - an appalling possibility. This is that hundreds of millions of the non-human victims of our actions are functionally akin - intellectually, emotionally and in their capacity to suffer - to very young humans. In the light of what we're doing to our victims, the consequences of their also being ethically akin to human babies or toddlers would be awful; in fact, almost too ghastly to think about. When we're confronted with such an emotive parallel, all sorts of psychological denial and defence-mechanisms are likely to kick in. Undoubtedly, too, animal-exploitation makes our lives so much more convenient. Not surprisingly, in view of what we're doing to them, there is a powerful incentive for us as humans to rationalise our actions. Numerous pretexts and rationalisations aimed at legitimating animal exploitation are certainly available; most of them seek to magnify the gulf between "us" and "them". Intellectually, however, they prove on examination to be surprisingly thin. .... http://www.hedweb.com/animals/degrazia.htm I'm not letting anyone do anything, and I'm not keeping them from doing anything, am I going them to force them to stop eating meat,,,, hell no , that's up to them, but all they need to do is change their meat consumption from beef and pork to chicken , fish, and goat. all of which is "good" for ANYONE You appear to be very keen on promoting it, ignoring studies. Far From it, I'm ignoring studies that have the answer, before they asked the questions You're ignoring valid research. Do you agree to let them test drugs on animals, and kill the animals, so your child can live ? Absolutely not. BINGO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got ya, You have been brain washed, you claim compassion, yet you would let your own child die, so a "rat" could live, you have no compassion, you have no love, you have no "humanity" I'm sorry, but your pond scum You're projecting, and wrong. Testing on animals can't help. "I cannot name one single case in which experiments on animals may have led to a useful result." HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Man you have been throughly brain washed No, you have. 'BMJ 2004;328:514-517 (28 February), doi:10.1136/bmj.328.7438.514 Where is the evidence that animal research benefits humans? Pandora Pound, research fellow1, Shah Ebrahim, professor1, Peter Sandercock, professor2, Michael B Bracken, professor3, Ian Roberts, professor4 Reviewing Animal Trials Systematically (RATS) Group 1 Department of Social Medicine, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 2PR, 2 Department of Clinical Neurosciences, University of Edinburgh, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh .., 3 Center for Perinatal, Pediatric, and Environmental Epidemiology, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, CT 06520 USA, 4 London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, London WC1B 3DP ... Clinicians and the public often consider it axiomatic that animal research has contributed to the treatment of human disease, yet little evidence is available to support this view. Few methods exist for evaluating the clinical relevance or importance of basic animal research, and so its clinical (as distinct from scientific) contribution remains uncertain.1 Anecdotal evidence or unsupported claims are often used as justification-for example, statements that the need for animal research is "self evident"2 or that "Animal experimentation is a valuable research method which has proved itself over time."3 Such statements are an inadequate form of evidence for such a controversial area of research. We argue that systematic reviews of existing and future research are needed. Assessing animal research Despite the lack of systematic evidence for its effectiveness, basic animal research in the United Kingdom receives much more funding than clinical research.1 4 5 Given this, and because the public accepts animal research only on the assumption that it benefits humans,6 the clinical relevance of animal experiments needs urgent clarification. ..............' http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte...l/328/7438/514 Dr med. Philippe Grin, G.P., Video Interview with CIVIS, July 1 1986. "I am of the opinion that all experiments on animals should be abolished because they only lead us to error." Dr Marie-Louise Griboval, April 1987. Hans Ruesch, One Thousand Doctors (and many more) Against Vivisection. "As a physician, I am definitely opposed to animal experiments. They are totally useless, they don't contribute in any way to progress of medicine." Dr med. Jurg Kym, Physicians Have the Word, ATRA, December 1986. Hans Ruesch, One Thousand Doctors (and many more) Against Vivisection. "My own conviction is that the study of human physiology by way of experiments on animals is the most grotesque and fantastic error ever committed in the whole range of human intellectual activity." Dr G. F. Walker, Medical World, December 1933. http://www.health.org.nz/foreartl.html http://www.health.org.nz/contents.html Adverse reactions to pharmaceutical drugs are -at least- the fourth leading cause of death in the West. Surprise? Here are your brain washers,, from 10's of thousands of "real" doctors, you have a select few that have been laughed out of the profession 'For over 100 years thousands of medical doctors and scientists have opposed animal experimentation in relation to human medicine: "IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO MIMIC A CHRONIC HUMAN DISEASE IN ANIMALS. The reason is that each species is BIOCHEMICALLY, IMMUNOLOGICALLY, PHYSIOLOGICALLY, AND ANATOMICALLY UNIQUE." Brandon Reines , DVM & revisionist medical historian "Psychology Experiments on Animals" 1982 "ANIMAL MODELS HAVE VIRTUALLY NO STATISTICAL PREDICTIVE VALUE." S. Peller, "Quantitative Research in Human Biology and Medicine" 1967 "Vivisection is rooted in error, and when the truth becomes known it will disappear." Dr. Max Mader, G.P., Graz, 1908 ..............' http://marcussternum.tripod.com/doctors.htm Go read what vivisectors say about it at that link. Ok.. I see you're running away. Good by,, Looser -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
Tuna salad anyone? Death of a Tuna and Death of a Whale
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 01:41:43 GMT, "David H. Lipman"
wrote: From: "Rodney Long" Rodney: Please stop feeding this PITA PETA Troll. | Dang I'm having so much fun,, Ok I know it's a waste of time,, still fun | :-) | :-) You pair of dumdums sure don't sound like you're having fun. In fact you sound quite upset about having your butts kicked, by a girl! Meanwhile the rest of us just laugh, at you! |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
pearl wrote: You're ignoring valid research. No I'm ignoring research done by vegetarians, they were vegetarians prior to starting the research, they were trying to justify their "beliefs" , they were "paid" by other vegetarians to do the research, if they did not come to the proper conclusions, then their "money" is cut off, thus all of their data is corrupt The usual BS from Long. He finds someone who says what he wants to believe, and swallows it whole. Suppose we should dismiss it all as "written by a meat eater, paid by the livestock industry". Why not. THE CHOLESTEROL MYTH by T. J. Moore Source: The-Atlantic, VOL:v264, ISS:n3, DATE: Sept 1989, PAGE:37(25), ISSN: 0276-9077, ATMOA. COPYRIGHT The Atlantic Monthly Co. 1989. Diet has hardly any effect on your cholesterol level; the drugs that can lower it often have serious or fatal side effects; and there is no evidence at all that lowering your cholesterol level will lengthen your life. .. thousands of people for years. Nor is dietary therapy quite as simple as it sounds. So complex are the interactions among food compounds, and so varied are the behavior and the chemistry of individuals, that dietary intervention has proved to be one of the most complicated of all medical treatments, subject to unexpected difficulties and disappointing results. 'Metabolism 1997 May;46(5):530-7 Effect of a diet high in vegetables, fruit, and nuts on serum lipids. Jenkins DJ, Popovich DG, Kendall CW, Vidgen E, Tariq N, Ransom TP, Wolever TM, Vuksan V, Mehling CC, Boctor DL, Bolognesi C, Huang J, Patten R. Clinical Nutrition and Risk Factor Modification Center, Division of Endocrinology, St. Michael's Hospital, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. We assessed the effect of a diet high in leafy and green vegetables, fruit, and nuts on serum lipid risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Ten healthy volunteers (seven men and three women aged 33 +/- 4 years [mean +/- SEM]; body mass index, 23 +/- 1 kg/m2) consumed their habitual diet (control diet, 29% +/- 2% fat calories) and a diet consisting largely of leafy and other low-calorie vegetables, fruit, and nuts (vegetable diet, 25% +/- 3% fat calories) for two 2-week periods in a randomized crossover design. After 2 weeks on the vegetable diet, lipid risk factors for cardiovascular disease were significantly reduced by comparison with the control diet (low-density lipoprotein [LDL] cholesterol, 33% +/- 4%, P .001; ratio of total to high-density lipoprotein [HDL] cholesterol, 21% +/- 4%, P X .001; apolipoprotein [apo] B:A-I, 23% +/- 2%, P .001; and lipoprotein (a) [Lp(a)], 24% +/- 9%, P = .031). The reduction in apo B was related to increased intakes of soluble fiber (r = .84, P = .003) and vegetable protein (r = -.65, P = .041). On the vegetable compared with the control diet, the reduction in total serum cholesterol was 34% to 49% greater than would be predicted by differences in dietary fat and cholesterol. A diet consisting largely of low-calorie vegetables and fruit and nuts markedly reduced lipid risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Several aspects of such diets, which may have been consumed early in human evolution, have implications for cardiovascular disease prevention. Publication Types: Clinical trial Randomized controlled trial PMID: 9160820 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] )' 'People can reduce their cholesterol levels dramatically by changing the foods they eat. Every time you reduce your cholesterol level by 1 percent, you reduce your risk of heart disease by 2 percent.5 For example, a reduction from 300 mg/dl to 200 mg/dl (i.e., a one-third reduction) will yield a two-thirds reduction in the risk of a heart attack. For some people, the benefits are even greater. ... 5. Lipid Research Clinics Program. The Lipid Research Clinic's Coronary Primary Prevention Trial Results, II. JAMA. 1984: 251(3):365-74. ...' http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/c...rtdisease.html 'Arch Pathol Lab Med. 1988 Oct;112(10):1032-40. Dietary cholesterol and human coronary heart disease. The epidemiologic evidence. Stamler J, Shekelle R. Department of Community Health and Preventive Medicine, Northwestern University Medical School, Chicago, IL 60611. .... In humans, ingestion of dietary cholesterol raises serum cholesterol, largely through its effect on low-density lipoprotein-cholesterol. Over the range of intake in usual American diets, this effect is substantial, eg, with 300 mg of cholesterol intake per 1000 kcal, rather than 100, serum cholesterol is on average about 6% to 7% higher, equivalent to a 12% to 14% greater risk of coronary heart disease (CHD). In international studies based on the Food and Agriculture Organization and the World Health Organization (Geneva) data, mean per capita dietary cholesterol levels are consistently related to CHD mortality rates. In addition, since 1981, four prospective within-population studies have shown that dietary cholesterol intake of individuals is significantly related to their long- term CHD risk, independent of and in addition to serum cholesterol, blood pressure, and cigarette use. On average, a 200-mg/1000 kcal higher intake of cholesterol at baseline was associated with a 30% higher CHD rate (95% confidence interval, 1.1 to 1.5). Conversely, lower intakes of cholesterol were associated with significantly lower risks of CHD, and of all causes mortality as well. For example, with 19 years of follow-up in the Chicago Western Electric Study, a 200-mg/1000 kcal habitual lower cholesterol intake was associated with a 37% lower risk of death from any cause, equivalent to a life expectancy longer by 3.4 years. The importance of a low-dietary cholesterol intake for prevention of CHD merits increased emphasis. PMID: 3052353 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ool=pubmed_doc sum - Not even getting my little toe wet in the sea of research out there. ..... |
Tuna salad anyone? Death of a Tuna and Death of a Whale
From: "Geoff"
| | You pair of dumdums sure don't sound like you're having fun. In fact | you sound quite upset about having your butts kicked, by a girl! | | Meanwhile the rest of us just laugh, at you! | Thanx for the laugh ! -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
pearl wrote:
The usual BS from Long. He finds someone who says what he wants to believe, and swallows it whole. Suppose we should dismiss it all as "written by a meat eater, paid by the livestock industry". Why not. Show me proof where he was paid by the meat industry,, by the way all of his data came from actual test by "real" scientist, studying tens of thousands of people 'Metabolism 1997 May;46(5):530-7 Effect of a diet high in vegetables, fruit, and nuts on serum lipids. Jenkins DJ, Popovich DG, Kendall CW, Vidgen E, Tariq N, Ransom TP, Wolever TM, Vuksan V, Mehling CC, Boctor DL, Bolognesi C, Huang J, Patten R. Clinical Nutrition and Risk Factor Modification Center, Division of Endocrinology, St. Michael's Hospital, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. We assessed the effect of a diet high in leafy and green vegetables, fruit, and nuts on serum lipid risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Ten healthy volunteers (seven men and three women aged 33 +/- 4 years HAHAHAHAHAHA Some study 7 men and 3 women ROTFLMAO -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
pearl wrote:
- Not even getting my little toe wet in the sea of research out there. What part of "It's a multi BILLION dollar industry" do you not understand ???????? research Funded entirely by those making those billions. Follow the money, they can only claim to have reached conclusions the money paid for, or they no longer can get research grants, they end up unemployed. Sorry, I forgot again, your brain cells can't function properly without cholesterol It took me "one" little example, to destroy your LIES, and your experts, that claim animal research does not save human lives, there are thousands of individual research cases, plus just the fact of letting doctors practice surgery, on living things, prior to cutting into a human. LOWERING CHOLESTEROL, DOES NOT INCREASE LIFE SPAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In no research done, where "LARGE" groups of people were followed all the way through to when they died, was there "ANY" connection to lower cholesterol AND LONGER LIFE SPAN. Please show me "one", that say, has at least 1,000 people in it, where they followed them to death, where they found another conclusion. Many researchers "ASSUME" it does, but the HARD COLD FACTS, SAY NO !!!!!! -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
pearl wrote: The usual BS from Long. He finds someone who says what he wants to believe, and swallows it whole. Suppose we should dismiss it all as "written by a meat eater, paid by the livestock industry". Why not. Show me proof where he was paid by the meat industry,, Show proof that all of the research I have cited was carried out and paid for by vegetarians as you claim. Hoisted on your own petard. by the way all of his data came from actual test by "real" scientist, studying tens of thousands of people All of the data I've cited came from actual research by real scientists. If you're referring to the Framington Heart Study... 'From the Study: Major Risk Factors for Cardiovascular Disease Identified Today, managing cholesterol levels, high blood pressure and diabetes to mitigate heart and vascular disease and stroke is fundamental to good medical care. In fact, it's hard to remember a time when these and other risk factors were not considered to be significant problems by many physicians. But, before Framingham, the role of serum cholesterol in the evolution of cardiovascular disease was not widely understood or accepted by physicians as a major contributing factor. The study established a relationship between the levels of cholesterol and risk for disease. Further, the study established a strong positive association of LDL cholesterol with coronary heart disease as well as a powerful inverse and protective effect of HDL levels. Investigations of blood pressure uncovered a number of misconceptions. It was widely held that women and the elderly tolerated higher pressures well. However, researchers found nothing to suggest that the elderly fared any better than younger persons at a given degree of hypertension. Also, women with high pressures, like their male counterparts, were at increased risk for heart disease. http://www.framingham.com/heart/backgrnd.htm 'Metabolism 1997 May;46(5):530-7 Effect of a diet high in vegetables, fruit, and nuts on serum lipids. Jenkins DJ, Popovich DG, Kendall CW, Vidgen E, Tariq N, Ransom TP, Wolever TM, Vuksan V, Mehling CC, Boctor DL, Bolognesi C, Huang J, Patten R. Clinical Nutrition and Risk Factor Modification Center, Division of Endocrinology, St. Michael's Hospital, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. We assessed the effect of a diet high in leafy and green vegetables, fruit, and nuts on serum lipid risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Ten healthy volunteers (seven men and three women aged 33 +/- 4 years HAHAHAHAHAHA Some study 7 men and 3 women ROTFLMAO You imagine that they were all exceptions to the rule somehow? The jokes on you, clown. |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
pearl wrote: - Not even getting my little toe wet in the sea of research out there. What part of "It's a multi BILLION dollar industry" do you not understand ???????? research Funded entirely by those making those billions. Follow the money, they can only claim to have reached conclusions the money paid for, or they no longer can get research grants, they end up unemployed. Follow the money and you'll find the livestock and pharmaceutical industries, both of which benefit from ongoing meat consumption. 'Beef Industry Nutrition Programs Nutrition research and education programs funded with beef checkoff dollars "Scientific research sponsored by federal government and by industry has contributed to the extension and quality of human life." Margaret Flynn, Ph.D. Professor of nutrition and pediatrician, University of Missouri - Columbia This quote from Dr. Margaret Flynn appears on the cover of the 1991 research summary of the National Live Stock and Meat Board. It's a philosophy that summarizes both the overall objective, and the success, of nutrition research programs funded by the Meat Board, an organization now known as the National Cattlemen's Beef Association (NCBA). The timeline that follows provides an overview of nutrition research and nutrition education projects funded by America's beef producers through this organization since its inception in 1922. Through checkoff dollars, these programs demonstrate the industry's commitment to both nutrition research in general, and to science-based research to support its nutrition education, communications and consumer marketing programs. ............' http://www.beefnutrition.org/uDocs/B...d%203-2003.pdf Sorry, I forgot again, your brain cells can't function properly without cholesterol Our bodies produce all the cholesterol we need. You're clueless. ipse dixit rant snipped |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
pearl wrote:
:-) We assessed the effect of a diet high in leafy and green vegetables, fruit, and nuts on serum lipid risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Ten healthy volunteers (seven men and three women aged 33 +/- 4 years HAHAHAHAHAHA Some study 7 men and 3 women ROTFLMAO You imagine that they were all exceptions to the rule somehow? The jokes on you, clown. Ok I eat meat, LOTS of meat, my cholesterol level is under 100, been there forever. What's your level ? My 80 year old Dad was taken off of meat three years ago, trying to lower his cholesterol, they also added walking, and a bunch of other things, for him to change, his levels dropped from 310 to 270, they then put him on drugs to lower it, it dropped to 250, still too damn high according to your researchers My wife works with a person who eats like you do, ZERO MEAT, been doing it for 20 years, their cholesterol level is 290 Why is their level not lower than mine ????????????????????? Where the hell is their cholesterol coming from ????????? Are me, my dad, and this person exceptions to the rule ?????????????????? Show me a study where low levels of cholesterol have extended life, even 1 single day over those who have high levels. If they don't die from heart disease, they may die from cancer, or diabetes, but they still die. I say we need to outlaw process sugar, and flower, now those are the killers of man, so is margarine, and shortening ) all made from your "holy" vege's, How about French fries. Some of your vege's are the number one cause of obesity, Now that is a killer big time, every study shows obese people die early. Why are you not fighting against Oeros, donuts, Bon bons , Snickers, pancakes, bread, cookies ????????????????????? THIS IS WHY MY CHOLESTEROL IS SO LOW, I DON'T EAT THIS CRAP, THAT FEEDS THE BODY'S "OWN" FAT MAKING CELLS YOU DON'T GET OBESE EATING JUST MEAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why are you not condemning, them along with meat ? Because you don't want man to utilize animals, your looking for anything to help further your cause, YOU COULD CARE LESS, ABOUT THE HEALTH OF MANKIND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW,,,, ADMIT THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
In article , Rodney Long wrote:
pearl wrote: :-) We assessed the effect of a diet high in leafy and green vegetables, fruit, and nuts on serum lipid risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Ten healthy volunteers (seven men and three women aged 33 +/- 4 years HAHAHAHAHAHA Some study 7 men and 3 women ROTFLMAO You imagine that they were all exceptions to the rule somehow? The jokes on you, clown. Ok I eat meat, LOTS of meat, my cholesterol level is under 100, been there forever. What's your level ? My 80 year old Dad was taken off of meat three years ago, trying to lower his cholesterol, they also added walking, and a bunch of other things, for him to change, his levels dropped from 310 to 270, they then put him on drugs to lower it, it dropped to 250, still too damn high according to your researchers My wife works with a person who eats like you do, ZERO MEAT, been doing it for 20 years, their cholesterol level is 290 Why is their level not lower than mine ????????????????????? Where the hell is their cholesterol coming from ????????? Are me, my dad, and this person exceptions to the rule ?????????????????? Show me a study where low levels of cholesterol have extended life, even 1 single day over those who have high levels. If they don't die from heart disease, they may die from cancer, or diabetes, but they still die. I say we need to outlaw process sugar, and flower, now those are the killers of man, so is margarine, and shortening ) all made from your "holy" vege's, How about French fries. I have fairly low cholesterol. My dad had high cholestrol. Cholestrol is also increased by improper heart function, arrhythmias. Heridity is the major cause of vast level changes, but in my case I guess my mother offset that. Its got to be said somewhere that high LDL increases chances for heart attact. Atkins diest high meat can reduce the bad cholestrol. Many vegatables act creating the chance of blod clots. Hoe about carrots. You better NOT eat carrots and green leafy vegetables. For me a blanced protien, carb, fat, diet is the best way to go, including excercise. For those with high LDL, I would want to be on drugs. Diet has a minimum effect on changing levels. My dad even though on cholestrol medication and blood thinners, still had heart failure and total blockage of the lower extremidies. |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
Rodney Long wrote:
Why are you not condemning, them along with meat ? Because you don't want man to utilize animals, your looking for anything to help further your cause, YOU COULD CARE LESS, ABOUT THE HEALTH OF MANKIND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW,,,, ADMIT THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That ended this cholesterol "crap", and if it didn't, I am well armed , Obesity is the number one cause of heart disease, diabetes, and many cancers. Plants, and the way they are processed into food that people eat "CAUSE obesity", many plants increase cholesterol levels in humans, because humans "produce" cholesterol from "plant products they eat", even if they eat "ZERO" animal fat. Hydrogenated fats (made from plants) are the most dangerous fat people can eat. There are thousands of research studies on these facts, and they are accepted by 99% of the doctors. H'mmmm maybe we need to eat nothing but meat, like the "old" Eskimo diet, they sure didn't have the diet related medical problems people have today Whale blubber, anyone ? :-) -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:31:35 -0600, Rodney Long wrote:
ya know_ Even a freaking moron would know that it is hopeless to engage in any discussions with ****ing assholes like these peta scum_ Just put a ****ing bullet in their heads and move on to the next one. Hey Rodney why don't you freaking wise up and stop answering these assholes_ you are an ignorant **** for getting sucked into this bull**** to begin with. Now please shut the **** up and stop spewing this crap all over a dozen newsgroups. |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"GregS" wrote in message ...
In article , Rodney Long wrote: pearl wrote: :-) We assessed the effect of a diet high in leafy and green vegetables, fruit, and nuts on serum lipid risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Ten healthy volunteers (seven men and three women aged 33 +/- 4 years HAHAHAHAHAHA Some study 7 men and 3 women ROTFLMAO You imagine that they were all exceptions to the rule somehow? The joke's on you, clown. Ok I eat meat, LOTS of meat, my cholesterol level is under 100, been there forever. What's your level ? My 80 year old Dad was taken off of meat three years ago, trying to lower his cholesterol, they also added walking, and a bunch of other things, for him to change, his levels dropped from 310 to 270, they then put him on drugs to lower it, it dropped to 250, still too damn high according to your researchers My wife works with a person who eats like you do, ZERO MEAT, been doing it for 20 years, their cholesterol level is 290 Why is their level not lower than mine ????????????????????? Where the hell is their cholesterol coming from ????????? Are me, my dad, and this person exceptions to the rule ?????????????????? Anecdotes are not *evidence*. Show me a study where low levels of cholesterol have extended life, even 1 single day over those who have high levels. Done. Read what you've snipped. Yes... *all* of it, from the beginning! If they don't die from heart disease, they may die from cancer, or diabetes, but they still die. I say we need to outlaw process sugar, and flower, now those are the killers of man, so is margarine, and shortening ) all made from your "holy" vege's, How about French fries. I have fairly low cholesterol. My dad had high cholestrol. Cholestrol is also increased by improper heart function, arrhythmias. Heridity is the major cause of vast level changes, but in my case I guess my mother offset that. Its got to be said somewhere that high LDL increases chances for heart attact. Atkins diest high meat can reduce the bad cholestrol. Many vegatables act creating the chance of blod clots. Hoe about carrots. You better NOT eat carrots and green leafy vegetables. For me a blanced protien, carb, fat, diet is the best way to go, including excercise. For those with high LDL, I would want to be on drugs. Diet has a minimum effect on changing levels. My dad even though on cholestrol medication and blood thinners, still had heart failure and total blockage of the lower extremidies. 'Atkins Distorted His Record on Cholesterol Although ketogenic diets have caused a number of "serious potentially-life-threatening complications,"[317] perhaps the greatest danger of the Atkins Diet, according to the American Medical Association, lies in the heart. Atkins claimed a worsening of cholesterol levels typically only occurs "when carbohydrates are a large part of the diet."[318] We've known this to be false since 1929 when the Institute of American Meatpackers paid to see what would happen if people lived on an all-meat diet. The blood plasma of the unfortunate subjects was so filled with fat it "showed a milkiness" and one of the subjects' cholesterol shot up to 800![319] In the head-to-head comparisons of the four popular weight-loss diets, Ornish's vegetarian diet was the only one that showed a significant decrease in LDL levels--the so-called "bad" cholesterol. Even researchers paid by Atkins concede that high saturated fat diets like Atkins' tend to increase LDL cholesterol.[321] These researchers have to concede the truth since they publish their work in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Dr. Atkins, though, died without ever publishing a single paper in any scientific journal about anything, and thus had more freedom to bend the truth. "The truth," Atkins wrote, "is that every one of a score of studies on [very low carb diets] showed a significant improvement in cholesterol." He accused those who say otherwise of simply not doing their homework. Any claim that cholesterol doesn't significantly improve in "every one of scores of studies" is, he wrote in the last edition, "one of the many examples of untruths being perpetrated because the accusers don't bother to read the scientific literature."[322] He then goes on to recommend no less than 17 supplements for the "prevention of cholesterol elevations" on his diet.[323] But what about his claim that "every one of a score of studies showed a significant improvement in cholesterol." When the AMA and the American Heart Association question this "fact," is it just because they "don't bother to read the scientific literature?" That statement of his, in the latest edition of his book and in essence repeated to this day on the Atkins website, [537], presents a clear opportunity to test the veracity of his claims. And the actual truth is almost the exact opposite. Unfortunately, Dr. Atkins didn't include citations to back up his "score of studies" statement. In fact, when pressed for a list of citations in general, Dr. Atkins told an interviewer that "It and the papers I quoted were in a briefcase I lost some time ago."[324] Researchers have located about a dozen studies, though, that measured the effects of low carb diets on cholesterol levels. Did they all "show a significant improvement in cholesterol?" No. In fact, with only one exception, every single controlled study showed just the opposite--LDL cholesterol either stagnated or was elevated by a low carb diet, even in those that showed weight loss.[325-338] During active weight loss--any kind of weight loss (whether from chemotherapy, cocaine use, tuberculosis or the Atkins Diet)--cholesterol synthesis temporarily decreases[339] and LDL cholesterol levels should go down.[340] Yet, all the saturated animal fat in the Atkins Diet tends to instead push levels up, and in most studies the bad cholesterol doesn't fall as it should with weight loss. The saturated fat in effect cancelled the benefit one would expect while losing weight and cutting out trans fats.[522] And what happens when people on the Atkins Diet stop losing weight? People can't lose weight forever (Stephen King novels aside). The fear is that their LDL cholesterol level might then shoot through the roof.[341-342] "There is no doubt that you lose weight initially," Dr Jim Mann, an endocrinology specialist from the University of Otago, New Zealand, told the 2003 meeting of the European Society of Cardiology, "but there is a grave risk of a dramatic rise in cholesterol levels during the maintenance phase [of the Atkins Diet]. "When weight loss is maintained--or as often happens, there is weight gain [on the Atkins Diet]," Mann continued, "we have observed that a lot of people experience a rise in cholesterol to levels greater than when they started the diet."[1159] Sometimes even during the active weight loss, however, LDL cholesterol levels became elevated on the Atkins Diet. One study of women, for example, showed that just two weeks on the Atkins Diet significantly elevated average LDL levels over 15%.[343] In a trial of men on the Atkins Diet, even though they lost an average of 17 pounds after 3 months, their LDL cholesterol jumped almost 20%. The May 2004 Annals of Internal Medicine study showed that a third of Atkins dieters suffered a significant increase in LDL cholesterol. The goal is to have a double digit LDL--an LDL under 100 (mg/dl).[344] In the study, one person's LDL shot from an unhealthy 184 to a positively frightening 283 (which means their total cholesterol was probably somewhere over 350). [345] With so many people on these diets, that could mean Atkins is endangering the health of millions of Americans.[346] LDL cholesterol is, after all, the single most important diet related risk factor for heart disease,[527] the number one killer in the United States for both men and women.[347] In another clinical trial, despite statistically significant weight loss reported in the Atkins group, every single cardiac risk factor measured had worsened after a year on the Atkins Diet. The investigator concludes "Those following high fat [Atkins[526]] diets may have lost weight, but at the price of increased cardiovascular risk factors, including increased LDL cholesterol, increased triglycerides, increased total cholesterol, decreased HDL cholesterol, increased total/HDL cholesterol ratios, and increased homocysteine, Lp(a), and fibrinogen levels. These increased risk factors not only increase the risk of heart disease, but also the risk of strokes, peripheral vascular disease, and blood clots."[523] While the LDL in the Atkins group increased 6%, the LDL cholesterol levels in the whole-foods vegetarian group was cut in half--dropping 52%.[523] This kind of drop would theoretically make your average American[528] almost heart-attack proof.[529] When the pro-Atkins journalist who wrote the misleading New York Times Magazine piece was confronted as to why he didn't include the results of this landmark study, which directly contradicted what he wrote in the article, all he could do was to accuse the researchers of just making the data up. [348] It's interesting to note that the one exception --a published study of the Atkins Diet showing a statistically significant reduction in LDL--had no control group, put subjects on cholesterol-lowering supplements and was funded by the Atkins Corporation itself. Even in that study though, the drop was modest--only a 7% drop (compared, for example, to the 52% drop on the vegetarian diet)--and didn't include two subjects who quit because their cholesterol levels went out of control.[349] Yet studies like this have been heralded as a vindication of the Atkins Diet by the mainstream media.[350] As journalist Michael Fumento, co-author of Fat of the Land, pointed out, "How peculiar when the most you can say for the best-selling fad-diet book of all time is that it probably doesn't kill people." [351] To which I might add, "in the short-term." Based on an analysis of the Atkins Diet, long-term use of the Atkins Diet is expected to raise coronary heart disease risk by over 50%. [352] "The late Dr. A," Fumento quips, "still gets an F."[353] Less often reported in the media is the fact that one of the research subjects placed on the Atkins Diet in the 2003 "vindication" study was hospitalized with chest pain and another died.[354] Similarly, in the widely publicized May 2004 study, less widely publicized was the fact that two people in the low carb-diet arm of the study couldn't complete the study because they died. One slipped into a coma; the other dropped dead from heart disease.[355] As the Director of Nutrition at the Harvard School of Medicine has written, "there is still much danger in the widespread fad enthusiasm for these diets."[356] The Atkins Corporation boasts about the supposed ability of the Atkins Diet to significantly raise the level of HDL, or "good" cholesterol on a consistent basis.[357] HDL transports cholesterol out of one's arteries to the liver for disposal or recycling. Though it is actually only a minority of controlled studies on Atkins-like diets that have shown such an effect,[358-371] it is important to note that the type of HDL increase sometimes seen on these diets is not necessarily healthful.[372] When one eats more garbage (saturated fat and cholesterol) one may need more metabolic garbage trucks (like HDL) to get rid of it. Eating a stick of butter may raise one's HDL, but that doesn't mean chewing one down is good for one's heart. In any case, significantly lowering one's LDL seems more important than significantly raising one's HDL,[373] though the studies done on low carb diets typically show neither. Because of these "well-known hazards," when Atkins' book was originally published the Chair of the Nutrition Department at Harvard warned physicians that recommending the Atkins Diet "borders on malpractice."[374] http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/...ethod=allWords |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
Rodney Long wrote: Why are you not condemning, them along with meat ? Because you don't want man to utilize animals, your looking for anything to help further your cause, YOU COULD CARE LESS, ABOUT THE HEALTH OF MANKIND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW,,,, ADMIT THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are the one promoting an unhealthy diet, not me. 'Am J Clin Nutr 1999 Sep;70(3 Suppl):532S-538S Associations between diet and cancer, ischemic heart disease, and all-cause mortality in non-Hispanic white California Seventh-day Adventists. Fraser GE. Center for Health Research and the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Loma Linda University, CA USA. Results associating diet with chronic disease in a cohort of 34192 California Seventh-day Adventists are summarized. Most Seventh-day Adventists do not smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol, and there is a wide range of dietary exposures within the population. About 50% of those studied ate meat products 1 time/wk or not at all, and vegetarians consumed more tomatoes, legumes, nuts, and fruit, but less coffee, doughnuts, and eggs than did nonvegetarians. Multivariate analyses showed significant associations between beef consumption and fatal ischemic heart disease (IHD) in men [relative risk (RR) = 2.31 for subjects who ate beef or =3 times/wk compared with vegetarians], significant protective associations between nut consumption and fatal and nonfatal IHD in both sexes (RR approximately 0.5 for subjects who ate nuts or =5 times/wk compared with those who ate nuts 1 time/wk), and reduced risk of IHD in subjects preferring whole-grain to white bread. The lifetime risk of IHD was reduced by approximately 31% in those who consumed nuts frequently and by 37% in male vegetarians compared with nonvegetarians. Cancers of the colon and prostate were significantly more likely in nonvegetarians (RR of 1.88 and 1.54, respectively), and frequent beef consumers also had higher risk of bladder cancer. Intake of legumes was negatively associated with risk of colon cancer in nonvegetarians and risk of pancreatic cancer. Higher consumption of all fruit or dried fruit was associated with lower risks of lung, prostate, and pancreatic cancers. Cross-sectional data suggest vegetarian Seventh-day Adventists have lower risks of diabetes mellitus, hypertension, and arthritis than nonvegetarians. Thus, among Seventh-day Adventists, vegetarians are healthier than nonvegetarians but this cannot be ascribed only to the absence of meat. - PMID: 10479227' That ended this cholesterol "crap", and if it didn't, I am well armed , Obesity is the number one cause of heart disease, diabetes, and many cancers. 'New Scientific Review Shows Vegetarian Diets Cause Major Weight Loss Without Exercise or Calorie Counting 31-03-2006 05:01 WASHINGTON, March 31 /PRNewswire/ -- - Controlled Research Trials Prove Diet's Efficacy A scientific review in April's Nutrition Reviews shows that a vegetarian diet is highly effective for weight loss. Vegetarian populations tend to be slimmer than meat-eaters, and they experience lower rates of heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, and other life-threatening conditions linked to overweight and obesity. The new review, compiling data from 87 previous studies, shows the weight-loss effect does not depend on exercise or calorie-counting, and it occurs at a rate of approximately 1 pound per week. Rates of obesity in the general population are skyrocketing, while in vegetarians, obesity prevalence ranges from 0 percent to 6 percent, note study authors Susan E. Berkow, Ph.D., C.N.S., and Neal D. Barnard, M.D., of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM). The authors found that the body weight of both male and female vegetarians is, on average, 3 percent to 20 percent lower than that of meat-eaters. Vegetarian and vegan diets have also been put to the test in clinical studies, as the review notes. The best of these clinical studies isolated the effects of diet by keeping exercise constant. The researchers found that a low-fat vegan diet leads to weight loss of about 1 pound per week, even without additional exercise or limits on portion sizes, calories, or carbohydrates. "Our research reveals that people can enjoy unlimited portions of high-fiber foods such as fruits, vegetables, and whole grains to achieve or maintain a healthy body weight without feeling hungry," says Dr. Berkow, the lead author. "There is evidence that a vegan diet causes an increased calorie burn after meals, meaning plant-based foods are being used more efficiently as fuel for the body, as opposed to being stored as fat," says Dr. Barnard. Insulin sensitivity is increased by a vegan diet, allowing nutrients to more rapidly enter the cells of the body to be converted to heat rather than to fat. Earlier this month, a team of researchers led by Tim Key of Oxford University found that meat-eaters who switched to a plant-based diet gained less weight over a period of five years. Papers reviewed by Drs. Berkow and Barnard include several published by Dr. Key and his colleagues, as well as a recent study of more than 55,000 Swedish women showing that meat-eaters are more likely to be overweight than vegetarians and vegans. ... http://media.netpr.pl/notatka_54444.html Plants, and the way they are processed into food that people eat "CAUSE obesity", many plants increase cholesterol levels in humans, because humans "produce" cholesterol from "plant products they eat", even if they eat "ZERO" animal fat. Nonsense. Hydrogenated fats (made from plants) are the most dangerous fat people can eat. 'Scientific evidence shows that consumption of saturated fat, trans fat, and dietary cholesterol raises low-density lipoprotein (LDL), or "bad cholesterol," levels, which increases the risk of coronary heart disease (CHD). According to the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute of the National Institutes of Health, more than 12.5 million Americans have CHD, and more than 500,000 die each year. That makes CHD one of the leading causes of death in the United States. ... Trans fat, like saturated fat and dietary cholesterol, raises the LDL cholesterol that increases your risk for CHD. Americans consume on average 4 to 5 times as much saturated fat as trans fat in their diets. Although saturated fat is the main dietary culprit that raises LDL, trans fat and dietary cholesterol also contribute significantly. ....' http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2003/503_fats.html 'January 27, 2005 Scientists discover molecular "switch" in liver that triggers harmful effects of saturated and trans fats ......' http://www.dfci.harvard.edu/abo/news...2005-01-27.asp There are thousands of research studies on these facts, and they are accepted by 99% of the doctors. But not by you. lol. H'mmmm maybe we need to eat nothing but meat, like the "old" Eskimo diet, they sure didn't have the diet related medical problems people have today "Really now. Virtually every credible account you will ever read that describes the Eskimo way of life will describe them eating vegetable matter and great efforts they go to in collecting it during the months when it is available. (Plants) made up a *significant* portion of the diet in all Arctic and sub-Arctic regions. Specifically they made up a significant portion of Eskimo diets. There is one small area in central Canada where that was less true than in all other areas, and the main point to consider is that even in that area Eskimos did eat vegetable matter on a regular basis. You've never seen berries preserved in seal oil, or dried leaves to make tea, or eaten soup made from a mouse nest, or picked rose hips in the winter, or seen willows on the tundra, or eaten salmon berries with Pilot Bread?" - Written by Floyd L. Davidson, Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska). Whale blubber, anyone ? :-) That would certainly explain a lot. 'Pibloktoq (hysteria) and Inuit nutrition: possible implication of hypervitaminosis A. Landy D. The hysterical reaction among Eskimo peoples known as pibloktoq, one of a group of aberrant behaviors occurring among Arctic and Circumarctic societies termed 'arctic hysterias', has been explained by a variety of theories: ecological, nutritional, biological-physiological, psychological- psychoanalytic, social structural and cultural. This study hypothesizes the possible implication of vitamin intoxication, namely, hypervitaminosis A, in the etiology of some cases of pibloktoq. Its biocultural approach implicates elements of several explanatory classes, which are not mutually exclusive. Experimental and clinical studies of nonhumans and humans reveal somatic and behavioral effects of hypervitaminosis A which closely parallel many of the symptoms reported for Western patients diagnosed as hysterical and Inuit sufferers of pibloktoq. Eskimo nutrition provides abundant sources of vitamin A and lays the probable basis in some individuals for hypervitaminosis A through ingestion of livers, kidneys, and fat of arctic fish and mammals, where the vitamin often is stored in poisonous quantities. Possible connections between pibloktoq and hypervitamonosis A are explored. A multifactorial framework may yield a more compelling model of some cases of pibloktoq than those that are mainly unicausal, since, among other things, the disturbance has been reported for males and females, adults and children, and dogs. PMID: 4049004 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://tinyurl.com/5qw7 |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Rodney Long" wrote in message:
You can't reason with a vegetarian, they have lost the protein in their diet, that allows their brains to function properly. Prime example, they complain about people killing animals, yet they can no longer, see animals killing animals, animals even torturing other animals.... (etc., from earlier message) and (to pearl); You have convinced no one on these fishing groups, not a single person, I have convinced no one on your nut case groups, because you can't reason with those who's brains fail to function properly due to the lack on animal protein in their diets, they suffer from a chemical imbalance and the Prozac, Zanax, and other drugs "all" of you take, can't cure that. ------------------------------------- But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? Unlike the vegans, they do get animal protein in their diets. So according to what you say their brains will not fail to function properly and will not have this "chemical imbalance" from lack of animal protein in their diets, since they do eat dairy products and eggs, both good sources of animal proteins - yet these people still refuse to eat meat. How could that possibly be, if what you say is correct? -dr "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Albert Einstein http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/38115.html |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"dangrang" wrote
But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? They aren't vegetarians, except according to a sloppy, self-serving misnomer. |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Dutch" wrote in message
... "dangrang" wrote But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? They aren't vegetarians, except according to a sloppy, self-serving misnomer. ---------------------------- For Dutch's sake, my original message (to Rodney) is restated below.... --------------- "Rodney Long" wrote in message: You can't reason with a vegetarian, they have lost the protein in their diet, that allows their brains to function properly. Prime example, they complain about people killing animals, yet they can no longer, see animals killing animals, animals even torturing other animals.... (etc., from earlier message) and (to pearl); You have convinced no one on these fishing groups, not a single person, I have convinced no one on your nut case groups, because you can't reason with those who's brains fail to function properly due to the lack on animal protein in their diets, they suffer from a chemical imbalance and the Prozac, Zanax, and other drugs "all" of you take, can't cure that. ------------------------------------- But what about those who follow a meatless diet, yet still consume dairy products and eggs? Unlike the vegans, they do get animal protein in their diets. So according to what you say their brains will not fail to function properly and will not have this "chemical imbalance" from lack of animal protein in their diets, since they do eat dairy products and eggs, both good sources of animal proteins - yet these people still refuse to eat meat. How could that possibly be, if what you say is correct? -dr "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Albert Einstein http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/38115.html |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
dangrang wrote:
But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? Unlike the vegans, they do get animal protein in their diets. So according to what you say their brains will not fail to function properly and will not have this "chemical imbalance" from lack of animal protein in their diets, since they do eat dairy products and eggs, both good sources of animal proteins - yet these people still refuse to eat meat. How could that possibly be, if what you say is correct? Lacking animal fat, in your diet, is not the only reason for mental illness, yet it is a major cause of it, among those who don't eat meat -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
dangrang wrote: But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? Unlike the vegans, they do get animal protein in their diets. So according to what you say their brains will not fail to function properly and will not have this "chemical imbalance" from lack of animal protein in their diets, since they do eat dairy products and eggs, both good sources of animal proteins - yet these people still refuse to eat meat. How could that possibly be, if what you say is correct? Lacking animal fat, in your diet, is not the only reason for mental illness, yet it is a major cause of it, among those who don't eat meat How many times a week do you recommend that people eat an average portion of meat (animal protein and fat), in order to enjoy maximum benefit to brain function and mental health, and avoid mental illness? |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Rodney Long" wrote in message
... dangrang wrote: But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? Unlike the vegans, they do get animal protein in their diets. So according to what you say their brains will not fail to function properly and will not have this "chemical imbalance" from lack of animal protein in their diets, since they do eat dairy products and eggs, both good sources of animal proteins - yet these people still refuse to eat meat. How could that possibly be, if what you say is correct? Lacking animal fat, in your diet, is not the only reason for mental illness, yet it is a major cause of it, among those who don't eat meat ------------------------------- OK then, let's take a look at a "lacto-ovo" vegetarian diet (for Dutch: a lacto-ovo meatlessarian diet), that includes, say, 3-4 cups of 2% milk and 1-2 eggs per day. I don't imagine those would be particularly unusual amounts, there are probably many "lacto-ovo" vegetarians (for Dutch: lacto-ovo meatlessarians) who consume milk and eggs in that range. 1 cup of 2% milk contains 5 grams of fat and 8 grams of ("complete") protein, and 1 large egg contains 5 grams of fat and 6 grams of ("complete") protein. So the above dietary range would contain 30 - 44 grams of animal protein and 20 - 30 grams of animal fat per day - and that doesn't even include any foods like cheese and butter the person may have. So Rodney, don't you think that such a "lacto-ovo" vegetarian (for Dutch: lacto-ovo meatlessarian), who consumes 30 - 44 grams of animal protein and 20 - 30 grams of animal fat per day is having enough of those animal substances to ward off mental illness? If so, how could it be that they still refuse to eat meat, if what you say is correct, that the lack of animal protein (and animal fat) in the vegetarian's diet causes their brains to fail to function properly and have a "chemical imbalance" (causing them to continue abstaining from meat)? -dr "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Albert Einstein http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/38115.html |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? They aren't vegetarians, except according to a sloppy, self-serving misnomer. ---------------------------- For Dutch's sake, my original message (to Rodney) is restated below.... Changing the wording doesn't change anything. |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Dutch" wrote in message
... "dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? They aren't vegetarians, except according to a sloppy, self-serving misnomer. ---------------------------- For Dutch's sake, my original message (to Rodney) is restated below.... Changing the wording doesn't change anything. ====================== I was following the recommendation you yourself made here some time ago regarding this: -Question from Pearl (when discussing diets that don't include meat, but do include other animal products like dairy / eggs): "What definition would you prefer to describe a diet excluding meat?" -Reply from Dutch: "Meatless" http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.an...85d6cdd9?hl=en You complained about the term "lacto-ovo vegetarians" which I used, saying they aren't vegetarians, so I restated my original message changing "lacto-ovo vegetarians" to "those who follow a meatless diet, yet still consume dairy products and eggs", using your preferred word "meatless" to make you happy. But you nevertheless now say that changing the wording doesn't change anything. Sheesh! See if I ever do that again.... -dr |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? They aren't vegetarians, except according to a sloppy, self-serving misnomer. ---------------------------- For Dutch's sake, my original message (to Rodney) is restated below.... Changing the wording doesn't change anything. ====================== I was following the recommendation you yourself made here some time ago How would you remember? I don't recall ever seeing your alias. You're not a scumbag nymshifter are you? In any case, I am not defending Rodney, as I have said many times, for most people, in most cases, a vegetarian diet is more than adequate. The primary problem with it is not poor nutrition, it's the temptation to fall into a mind-numbing pseudo-moralistic psychosis. |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Dutch" wrote in message
... "dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? They aren't vegetarians, except according to a sloppy, self-serving misnomer. ---------------------------- For Dutch's sake, my original message (to Rodney) is restated below.... Changing the wording doesn't change anything. ====================== I was following the recommendation you yourself made here some time ago How would you remember? ---------------------------------- Because I read this newsgroup and I have a memory. But I think the more important question is why didn't *you* remember? I don't recall ever seeing your alias. You're not a scumbag nymshifter are you? Oh man that really hurts, coming from a Pillar of Honesty and Integrity such as yourself.... :-) In any case, I am not defending Rodney, That's what I figured, since you only commented on the term "lacto-ovo vegetarian" itself. -dr as I have said many times, for most people, in most cases, a vegetarian diet is more than adequate. The primary problem with it is not poor nutrition, it's the temptation to fall into a mind-numbing pseudo-moralistic psychosis. |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? They aren't vegetarians, except according to a sloppy, self-serving misnomer. ---------------------------- For Dutch's sake, my original message (to Rodney) is restated below.... Changing the wording doesn't change anything. ====================== I was following the recommendation you yourself made here some time ago How would you remember? ---------------------------------- Because I read this newsgroup and I have a memory. But I think the more important question is why didn't *you* remember? The important question is why do find it necessary to keep changing your alias and what are your previous ones? |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Dutch" wrote in message
... "dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote But what about the "lacto-ovo" vegetarians? They aren't vegetarians, except according to a sloppy, self-serving misnomer. ---------------------------- For Dutch's sake, my original message (to Rodney) is restated below.... Changing the wording doesn't change anything. ====================== I was following the recommendation you yourself made here some time ago How would you remember? ---------------------------------- Because I read this newsgroup and I have a memory. But I think the more important question is why didn't *you* remember? The important question is why do find it necessary to keep changing your alias and what are your previous ones? =================== Surely our first priority must be to wrap up the "lacto-ovo vegetarian" discussion you started with me here on this thread. Let's take care of that unfinished business first, then we can talk about the details of other discussions you or I may have been involved in, for example the details of why you found it necessary to keep lying about your own children in the past. So anyway, first things first - After you complained about my original message, and I then restated it for you, changing "lacto-ovo vegetarians" to "those who follow a meatless diet, yet still consume dairy products and eggs", why did you state: "Changing the wording doesn't change anything"? Why would you say that when I was following the recommendation, made by you yourself here some time ago, to use the word "meatless" rather than "vegetarian" when describing that type of diet? http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.an...85d6cdd9?hl=en -dr |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"dangrang" wrote
"Dutch" wrote The important question is why do find it necessary to keep changing your alias and what are your previous ones? =================== Surely our first priority must be ...to resolve who you are. That's all that matters to me at the moment. What are your previous aliases? I have stopped responding to certain hopeless dip****s and if you're one then we're done here. |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Dutch" wrote in message
... "dangrang" wrote "Dutch" wrote The important question is why do find it necessary to keep changing your alias and what are your previous ones? =================== Surely our first priority must be ..to resolve who you are. That's all that matters to me at the moment. What are your previous aliases? I have stopped responding to certain hopeless dip****s and if you're one then we're done here. ------------------------------- None of those concerns stopped you from responding to my post first in this discussion, so why is any of that an issue now? What I want to know is if I should continue to make any special provision for you and refer to lacto-ovo vegetarians as "lacto-ovo meatlessarians" or "those who follow a meatless diet yet still consume dairy products and eggs", in accordance with your recommendation from 3 months ago to use the word "meatless" instead of "vegetarian" when describing that diet. Or should I not bother because 2 days ago you told a different story in this discussion - stating that "Changing the wording doesn't change anything." Surprisingly, you stated that the very day after you complained about the wording in that term "lacto-ovo vegetarians" which I used in my original message, and which I then changed for you in accordance with your earlier stated recommendation from 3 months ago: http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.an...85d6cdd9?hl=en Sheesh, you're obviously so hopelessly confused that I should be the one who should be thinking about not responding to you any more.... -dr |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote "Dutch" wrote The important question is why do find it necessary to keep changing your alias and what are your previous ones? =================== Surely our first priority must be ..to resolve who you are. That's all that matters to me at the moment. What are your previous aliases? I have stopped responding to certain hopeless dip****s and if you're one then we're done here. ------------------------------- None of those concerns That was your last chance, goodbye. |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Dutch" wrote in message
... "dangrang" wrote in message ... "Dutch" wrote in message ... "dangrang" wrote "Dutch" wrote The important question is why do find it necessary to keep changing your alias and what are your previous ones? =================== Surely our first priority must be ..to resolve who you are. That's all that matters to me at the moment. What are your previous aliases? I have stopped responding to certain hopeless dip****s and if you're one then we're done here. ------------------------------- None of those concerns That was your last chance, goodbye. --------------------------- Bye bye, chicken! :-) -dr == restore== "dangrang" wrote in message: None of those concerns stopped you from responding to my post first in this discussion, so why is any of that an issue now? What I want to know is if I should continue to make any special provision for you and refer to lacto-ovo vegetarians as "lacto-ovo meatlessarians" or "those who follow a meatless diet yet still consume dairy products and eggs", in accordance with your recommendation from 3 months ago to use the word "meatless" instead of "vegetarian" when describing that diet. Or should I not bother because 2 days ago you told a different story in this discussion - stating that "Changing the wording doesn't change anything." Surprisingly, you stated that the very day after you complained about the wording in that term "lacto-ovo vegetarians" which I used in my original message, and which I then changed for you in accordance with your earlier stated recommendation from 3 months ago: http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.an...85d6cdd9?hl=en Sheesh, you're obviously so hopelessly confused that I should be the one who should be thinking about not responding to you any more.... -dr |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"pearl" wrote in message ...
"Rodney Long" wrote in message ... .... Lacking animal fat, in your diet, is not the only reason for mental illness, yet it is a major cause of it, among those who don't eat meat How many times a week do you recommend that people eat an average portion of meat (animal protein and fat), in order to enjoy maximum benefit to brain function and mental health, and avoid mental illness? Looks like Rodney's lost his appetite. ;) Guess we'll have to go by what he says he eats - "I eat MEAT three times a day, I'm 53 years old," - Rodney Long, 14 November 2006 03:26 ..... 'Senile Dementia and Meat Eating Lumen Foods "Lab Notes" for July 14, 2000 Age concern for meat eaters as new study suggests links between meat-eating and senile dementia. Meat-eaters may be more than twice as likely to develop senile dementia as their vegetarian counterparts, according to the findings of a study conducted at California's Loma Linda University. Dementia is widely recognized as a major medical, social and economic problem in developed countries where the over 65's account for an increasingly high percentage of the population. In the UK, around 20 percent of the total population are aged over 65. Some five to seven percent of the over 65's are estimated to suffer moderate or severe dementia; while mild, early and borderline demented states affect 10 to 50 per cent. Research has suggested a link between diet and dementia; and it is possible Alzheimer's Disease and the similar Senile Dementia of the Alzheimer Type (SDAT) may involve an infectious component which is spread by an infectious mechanism. Researchers from the Department of Preventative Medicine at Loma Linda University investigated the relationship between animal product consumption and evidence of dementia in two cohort substudies. The first involved 272 age and postal area matched Californian residents: 68 vegan, 68 lacto-ovo-vegetarian and 136 meat-eaters (described as 'heavy' meat-eaters, consuming meat more than four times weekly). The second substudy included 2,984 unmatched subjects residing within the Loma Linda area. All participants were enrolled in the Adventist Health Study. In the matched substudy, it was found subjects who ate meat were more than twice as likely to become demented as their vegetarian counterparts. This increased to three times as likely when past meat consumption was taken into account. No difference was observed between the lacto-ovo-vegetarians and vegans. The unmatched substudy found no significant difference in the incidence of dementia in meat-eaters and vegetarians. It is suggested that this was due to the unmatched study being unable to detect the effects of 'heavy' meat consumption. This, in turn, suggests it is possible that there is minimal or no difference between the incidence of dementia in vegetarians and occasional meat-eaters (less than four times/week). Delayed onset of dementia in vegetarians was detectable in both substudies. In the unmatched substudy only one person who had been vegetarian for 30 years developed probable dementia before the age of 75, whereas nine meat-eaters did. A similar trend was observed in the matched substudy. The hypothesis that animal-product consumption may be linked to senile dementia has previously been proposed by Alzheimer's researchers. The findings from this preliminary study support their views and indicates further research is warranted. Giem, P. et al (1993) The incidence of dementia and intake of animal products: preliminary findings from the Adventist Health Study. Neuroepidemiology v. 11 p.28-36 http://www.soybean.com/demen.htm |
THE MYTH OF DIET AND COLESTEROL (AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST)
"Rodney Long" wrote in message:
.... You have convinced no one on these fishing groups, not a single person, '6. Fallacy of appeal to personal interest (argumentum ad personam). Appeal to the personal likes, prejudices, weaknesses, of others in order to have an argument accepted. "Well ya wanna be in the club don't ya?" 7. Fallacy of argument to the people (argumentum ad populum). Appeal to the gallery, majority, popular prejudice, biases, or mob instinct in order to arouse popular acceptance of an idea without resorting to logical justification of the idea. ... 8. Fallacy of argument to veneration (argumentum ad verecundiam.) Appealing to authority, fame, customs, traditions, institutions, to gain acceptance of a point. Example: "That's the way we've always done it..." ....' http://www.wdv.com/Writings/Fallacies/index.html It's highly doubtful that the information posted has been ignored. 'Vegan Stereotypes. Since my older brothers were involved with both, I began lifting weights and supplementing heavily at twelve to prepare for football, and I have never stopped either activity. This was long before I ever contemplated the elimination of animal products from my diet. Most people I meet think I'm in the Marines. There exists a huge impediment to males, in particular, in eliminating animal products from their diet. It's simply not masculine. Again, I run into this stereotype only on the internet where people can't see me. Nobody confuses me with an "anemic vegan" in person. Hazardous Materials. But at UCLA I spent a great deal of time in the Biomedical Library and could see that there was actually a large body of literature associating animal products with cancer and heart disease and I eliminated these foods from my diet. It involved no will power whatsoever - I just lost interest in these foods because I could clearly see that they were not associated with health and longevity. As my major was psychobiology, the macho stereotypes did not have the power over me as they might have others, and I do not believe it was a coincidence that my completely eliminating animal products coincided with my matriculation at UCLA. Vegan? At no time did I try to become a /vegan/. I also don't consider myself to be on any particular "diet", McDougall or otherwise. I eat whatever I have on hand anytime I feel hungry. Whenever I am hungry I eat however much I want - I certainly don't go hungry. I also have no taste for carrot sticks and celery. But without animal products around almost whatever one substitutes for these foods turns out to be far fewer in fat, cholesterol, and calories. Although I have never made an attempt to eat a specific number of fats, proteins, or carbohydrates, eliminating animal products has lead to a calorie breakdown of 8%, 16%, and 75%, respectfully. Again, this involves absolutely no will power, lack of energy, or hunger. Anybody interested in losing weight can do so by slowly eliminating animal products one by one along with actively seeking out the massive amount of medical lititure that shows these foods to be closely associated with cancer, heart disease, and yes, obesity. Two very extensive studies in this regard are.... http://nutrition.cornell.edu/ChinaProject/ http://www.llu.edu/llu/health/abstracts/ http://www.soybean.com/demen.htm |
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