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By substituting a few words here and there, you not only describe
all spectator sports, but gambling, eating at a restaurant, going on vacation, going *fly-fishing*, etc., etc., etc. Frankly, while we might find any of those diversions silly, as long as the folks who engage in it are using discretionary cash, it's a bit presumptuous (and ironic, given the nature of our own hobby) for us to feel like we need to "enlighten" the poor, dumb masses. Chuck Vance If you substitute words here and there, you alter the meaning and intent of my original statement. IMNSHO, spectator athletics have assumed far too large a role in our society. We collectively lionize the athletes, pay them exhorbitant salaries, forgive their illegal behaviors because of their celebrity status, and brawl and riot in the streets over the outcome of games as if they really mattered. Cities allow professional franchises to dictate taxation for the purposes of building new stadia so that the franchise holders need not spend their own money to practice their profession. I'm sure you will recognize that I am not a proponent or fan of any spectator game. Nor do I gamble at casinos, bet on the outcome of amateur or professional games. There are sports that I enjoy. Mostly they are sports that one can engage in alone or with a few friends. What competition I've engaged in over the years has been largely against my previous marks, better casting distance, longer backpacking trip, harder climbing lead, better outcome from a hunting trip, better score on the target range. And while all of these may allow some spectator coverage, they've largely not become the marketing darlings that professional athletics have. I hope it remains so. As to enlightenment of the masses, it amazes me to see people spend hard earned dollars to watch games being played by people with limited or no loyalty to the community and fans that pay their exhorbiant salaries. If we want gladiators to take our minds off the economy or our other troubles, then at least make the gladiators pay the price of their fame and glory with more than sweat. I do dine out from time to time but not as often or as expensively as most. I find that I can serve up a dinner of equal quality as I would get at most restaurants. I'd rather put what little discretionary cash I have into good ingredients for meals, good materials for flies, and good equipment for my personal sporting pleasure. I don't need the pseudo-loyalty to a team of gladiators and don't enjoy the mob scene in stadia. I managed to graduate university without ever attending a collegiate game. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
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slenon wrote:
Long, indignant, sanctimonious, self-important diatribe snipped. I managed to graduate university without ever attending a collegiate game. Did you ever live on campus ? I kinda doubt it, you strike me as the mail order type. What so-called "university" do you call alma mater or was it merely a PO box ? -- Ken Fortenberry |
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slenon wrote:
..... Perhaps we could justify the out of sight compensation for professional athletes if we reverted back to the actuality of the gladiatorial concept and slaughtered the losing teams. ..... Hmmm now, would that make Cubs and Red Sox fans feel better or worse at the end of every year......? JR |
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Ken Fortenberry wrote:
slenon wrote: Long, indignant, sanctimonious, self-important diatribe snipped. I managed to graduate university without ever attending a collegiate game. Did you ever live on campus ? I kinda doubt it, you strike me as the mail order type. What so-called "university" do you call alma mater or was it merely a PO box ? I went to W&M as an undergraduate (attended lots of football games), and did grad work at UMd (one game) and UF (zero games). It's somewhere between the W&M model and the UMd model that college football loses what college athletics "should be about." It's somewhere between the UMd model and the UF model that it loses (after stomping on it a bit) what civilization should be about. On the positive side, though, having the school attached as an appendage gives the FL legislature a convenient excuse for subsidizing the team. ;) JR |
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"JR" wrote in message ... slenon wrote: ..... Perhaps we could justify the out of sight compensation for professional athletes if we reverted back to the actuality of the gladiatorial concept and slaughtered the losing teams. ..... Hmmm now, would that make Cubs and Red Sox fans feel better or worse at the end of every year......? Well, they'd feel good until they made the playoffs. Then one of them would feel bad just once... --riverman |
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"JR" wrote in message ... ....having the school attached as an appendage gives the FL legislature a convenient excuse for subsidizing the team. ;) It is having things like state legislatures as appendages that give schools like UF cache. Wolfgang um......you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses would you, uncle wally? :( |
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JR wrote:
I went to W&M as an undergraduate (attended lots of football games), and did grad work at UMd (one game) and UF (zero games). It's somewhere between the W&M model and the UMd model that college football loses what college athletics "should be about." Oh, you'd love this year's version of the Illini. They're somewhere between William & Mary and The Billy Bob School of Auto Repair. :-( -- Ken Fortenberry- and did I mention that W&M alums are elitists ;-) |
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Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Oh, you'd love this year's version of the Illini. They're somewhere between William & Mary and The Billy Bob School of Auto Repair. :-( -- Ken Fortenberry- and did I mention that W&M alums are elitists ;-) Sad, but funny and true. :( |
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Did you ever live on campus ? I kinda doubt it, you strike me as the
mail order type. What so-called "university" do you call alma mater or was it merely a PO box ? Ken Fortenberry Uof MOO C, Kenny. Your intuition failed you once again. Yes, I lived on and off campus there. If you try very hard you just might comprehend that some of us are not interested in watching athletes play games in stadia that raise the cost of student fees. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
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Hmmm now, would that make Cubs and Red Sox fans feel better or worse at
the end of every year......? JR Hard to say. Perhaps we should begin the process in Chicago and see how it affects the fan base. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
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"slenon" wrote in message om...
If you substitute words here and there, you alter the meaning and intent of my original statement. Oh ... OK ... then let's just decide what you were trying to say with your original statement (which is what I did in the first place, but nevermind that): But I'm damned if I know how to open the eyes of people willing to spend a week's net income to watch a bunch of gladiators and consume overpriced food and beer. I dunno ... when I read that I get the feeling that stev considers himself the arbiter of what is considered acceptable regarding how folks spend their spare time and/or money. So when you are in charge, what will "the masses" be allowed to indulge in? Oh wait, here's a couple of hints: IMNSHO, spectator athletics have assumed far too large a role in our society. [snip] I'm sure you will recognize that I am not a proponent or fan of any spectator game. Nor do I gamble at casinos, bet on the outcome of amateur or professional games. [munch] As to enlightenment of the masses, it amazes me to see people spend hard earned dollars to watch games being played by people with limited or no loyalty to the community and fans that pay their exhorbiant salaries. [chomp] I do dine out from time to time but not as often or as expensively as most. I find that I can serve up a dinner of equal quality as I would get at most restaurants. I'd rather put what little discretionary cash I have into good ingredients for meals, good materials for flies, and good equipment for my personal sporting pleasure. I don't need the pseudo-loyalty to a team of gladiators and don't enjoy the mob scene in stadia. I managed to graduate university without ever attending a collegiate game. I'm sure you must be very proud. You know, I was wrong about you when I wrote that you appeared to be condescending. Nope, you are also self-aggrandizing, sanctimonious, pretentious and holier-than-thou. I managed to graduate college and I still attended some games. Not because I enjoyed a mob scene, or had a loyalty to my team (hell, I graduated from Vanderbilt), but because that was how I chose to spend some of my afternoons or evenings. Spectator sports can be fun, and you don't have to be some sort of idiot who needs "enlightenment" if you enjoy them. I can cook like a m*th*rf*ck*r (ask SWMBO), but I still enjoy a dinner out. I sometimes like to gamble, but don't spend any more than I'm prepared to lose. I spend money on woodworking tools and flyfishing gear, because those are active hobbies that I like to pursue. And guess what? That doesn't make me any better or worse than someone who spends their discretionary cash on going to wrestling matches. BTW, what do you consider a Dead concert to be? Is that a mob scene, or something else? Chuck Vance |
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"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message om... I'm sure you must be very proud. You know, I was wrong about you when I wrote that you appeared to be condescending. Nope, you are also self-aggrandizing, sanctimonious, pretentious and holier-than-thou. I managed to graduate college and I still attended some games. Not because I enjoyed a mob scene, or had a loyalty to my team (hell, I graduated from Vanderbilt), but because that was how I chose to spend some of my afternoons or evenings. Spectator sports can be fun, and you don't have to be some sort of idiot who needs "enlightenment" if you enjoy them. I can cook like a m*th*rf*ck*r (ask SWMBO), but I still enjoy a dinner out. I sometimes like to gamble, but don't spend any more than I'm prepared to lose. I spend money on woodworking tools and flyfishing gear, because those are active hobbies that I like to pursue. And guess what? That doesn't make me any better or worse than someone who spends their discretionary cash on going to wrestling matches. BTW, what do you consider a Dead concert to be? Is that a mob scene, or something else? Chuck Vance Hee, hee, hee. Wanna know what funner than ripping into a sanctimonious prick with delusions of adequacy? Huh? Ya wanna know? It's knowing that he ain't gonna learn a goddamned thing from it......and you get to do it all over again......and again......and again...... Enjoy! Wolfgang hee, hee, hee. :) |
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Chuck Vance:
I dunno ... when I read that I get the feeling that stev considers himself the arbiter of what is considered acceptable regarding how folks spend their spare time and/or money. So when you are in charge, what will "the masses" be allowed to indulge in? Actually, Chuck, I have very little concern about how most people spend their money. I have a lot of concerns about how people are compensated for the work they do vs games others play. Since I'm unlikely to be appointed or elected to any position where I would be able to change that, I don't see any need to go into conjecture. I managed to graduate college and I still attended some games. Not because I enjoyed a mob scene, or had a loyalty to my team (hell, I graduated from Vanderbilt), but because that was how I chose to spend some of my afternoons or evenings. Spectator sports can be fun, and you don't have to be some sort of idiot who needs "enlightenment" if you enjoy them. Big if. I don't, never have, never will. I'd rather participate than watch if it is something I enjoy. And I have no desire to help pay for any franchise's arena or playing field through involuntary taxation. The "fun" in that escapes me. We'll discuss "enlightenment of the masses" after I find a way to have you see the Autoway adds that currently air in the Tampa Bay region. I can cook like a m*th*rf*ck*r (ask SWMBO), but I still enjoy a dinner out. I sometimes like to gamble, but don't spend any more than I'm prepared to lose. I spend money on woodworking tools and flyfishing gear, because those are active hobbies that I like to pursue. Good! Then we can likely sit down over a very good meal when if we meet. I also enjoy dining out but reality is what it is. Whether or not you gamble is entirely up to you, as is the money you choose to spend on hobbies. And guess what? That doesn't make me any better or worse than someone who spends their discretionary cash on going to wrestling matches. OK. BTW, what do you consider a Dead concert to be? Is that a mob scene, or something else? Decidedly a mob scene, particularly in the later years. And I hated that aspect of it. Took a lot of effort to enter those big venues. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
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Wolfgang
hee, hee, hee. :) I'll be happy to mail you a new delete key. I'll even throw in the recipe for napalm that you keep asking about. Touchy stuff, though. Keep it out of the kitchen. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
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"slenon" wrote in message . .. Wolfgang hee, hee, hee. :) I'll be happy to mail you a new delete key. I'll even throw in the recipe for napalm that you keep asking about. Touchy stuff, though. Keep it out of the kitchen. Hee, hee, hee. Wanna know what's funner than ripping into a sanctimonious prick with delusions of adequacy again.....and again....and again....and again? Huh? Ya wanna know? It's knowing for an absolute certainty that each and every time he WILL give in to his grandiose dreams of wit and literacy and thus once again expose himself as a hapless fool. Hee, hee, hee. Wolfgang watch. :) |
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In article ,
lid says... " But, but, but, it's so very important that University sports exist, what else would elitist athlete wannabes have to crow about? - Ken I'm lack any first hand information about elitist athlete wannabees. I'll be happy to ask some, however. In case you're confused, I was agreeing with you. - Ken |
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"slenon" wrote in message ...
Actually, Chuck, I have very little concern about how most people spend their money. Ah, good ... so you've changed your position. Spectator sports can be fun, and you don't have to be some sort of idiot who needs "enlightenment" if you enjoy them. Big if. I don't, never have, never will. I think we all know that. My point was that before you changed your position, you said that folks who enjoyed the "gladiator sports" needed to have their eyes opened to the mistake of their ways. I'd rather participate than watch if it is something I enjoy. And I have no desire to help pay for any franchise's arena or playing field through involuntary taxation. Nor do I have any desire to help pay for Dubya to prove his manhood in Iraq, but that's a whole different kettle of worms. The "fun" in that escapes me. We'll discuss "enlightenment of the masses" after I find a way to have you see the Autoway adds that currently air in the Tampa Bay region. Let's see ... a quick Google search shows that they are/were using Dan Marino in ads to help sell their cars. Is that what you're referring to? I can cook like a m*th*rf*ck*r (ask SWMBO), but I still enjoy a dinner out. I sometimes like to gamble, but don't spend any more than I'm prepared to lose. I spend money on woodworking tools and flyfishing gear, because those are active hobbies that I like to pursue. Good! Then we can likely sit down over a very good meal when if we meet. I also enjoy dining out but reality is what it is. Whether or not you gamble is entirely up to you, as is the money you choose to spend on hobbies. How very generous of you. BTW, what do you consider a Dead concert to be? Is that a mob scene, or something else? Decidedly a mob scene, particularly in the later years. And I hated that aspect of it. Took a lot of effort to enter those big venues. Actually, that's something we agree on. I saw them (for free) in October 1972 on the lawn at Vanderbilt, and that was possibly the greatest event/concert I've ever been a part of. They played for 4+ hours, and it was the most unlikely mix of people (from bikers to family groups) that I've ever seen in one place. But it felt like a gathering of extended family (no doubt the chemical enhancement had some effect on that). The Dead were at the top of their game (if you'll pardon the sports metaphor), and seemed like they genuinely didn't want to stop playing. Contrast that with seeing them at Manor Downs outside of Austin in the early 80's. It was a bit of a madhouse (mob scene, if you will), with confrontations between the police and crowds, etc. They seemed to be going through the motions, and the set was a fairly bland (and short) mix of their "greatest hits". Right then and there I promised myself I would no longer make an attempt to see any of their shows. But, I digress. Chuck Vance |
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In case you're confused, I was agreeing with you.
- Ken I'm sometimes confused, but they tell me that side effect will vanish with time. Glad that there are at least two of us of a similar mind. Thanks for calling in. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
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slenon wrote:
Glad that there are at least two of us of a similar mind. ... While you and ET1 share a similar snotty, superior, misanthropic attitude, the Evil Ken Twin is not a sanctimonious prick on a pompous, self-important crusade to "open the eyes" of society. -- Ken Fortenberry - ET2 |
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Chuck Vance:
I think we all know that. My point was that before you changed your position, you said that folks who enjoyed the "gladiator sports" needed to have their eyes opened to the mistake of their ways. How to approach this without using a shotgun? My position remains the uncommon and unpopular one I first stated. I think far too much emphasis is given to spectator games and that the average fan is charged far too much for what ever pleasure they derive from attending them. To me, the position in today's society held by these games strongly suggests the bread and circus approach to managing the mob practiced by the Roman Emperors. Except, our mobs, or crowds, pay for the games rather than attend free games. The games are gladiatorial combats scaled back to near bloodless levels. There is little to no local loyalty among the players for the cities that host the franchises. Again, suggestive of the Roman era. I won't even touch upon the special privileges afforded celebrity athletes who repeatedly break laws except to mention that we are all aware of such patterns. The practice of threatening to move the franchise in order to get cities, counties, and even states, to affect taxation to build new venues is despicable. Tampa is the nearest case in point to my home. The franchise owners made the big threat and the county voted in a tax to pay for a new stadium. Had they imposed this tax upon only the fans, those voluntarily attending the games, that would have been a different matter. As a result, if I purchase food or drink, lodging, or transportation, anywhere in Hillsborough County, I am taxed to pay for a stadium I did not vote to build. Did the citizens who attend these games vote for this willingly? Was it shoved down their throats in lieu of losing "their team?" If the team was that ready to move, was it ever "theirs?" Is voting to tax yourself and others so that millionaire franchise owners can escape the cost of doing business and shift it to those less able to afford it the act of someone with politically opened eyes? Nor do I have any desire to help pay for Dubya to prove his manhood in Iraq, but that's a whole different kettle of worms. I didn't vote for him. We probably have some similar positions here and some divergent ones. Let's see ... a quick Google search shows that they are/were using Dan Marino in ads to help sell their cars. Is that what you're referring to? No. They are currently airing some horridly obnoxious clips of local fans, who certainly appear to be seriously impaired, dancing and shouting to the theme from "ghostbusters." Very, very annoying and the volume is boosted tremendously. I can usually ignore commercials or read through them. This one sends me scrambling for the mute button. How very generous of you. I have moments of generosity. Please don't let it get around, though. Actually, that's something we agree on. I saw them (for free) in October 1972 on the lawn at Vanderbilt, and that was possibly the greatest event/concert I've ever been a part of. Late 72 was a good period. I'm partial to 71-77. Your description of the crowd scene is much like everyone else's, mine included. I never saw any fights in the earlier days, the mob was docile. Yet the threat was often there when the Hell's Angels were in attendance. Always an odd microcosm that never really existed, in my experience, any place except at shows. My first show was in Aug, '68. I saw them at the Avalon and then shipped overseas the next day. My last was the stadium show in Tampa, 95. ( the old stadium, btw, now torn down to make way for the one discussed above) It was, for the end of tour in spring of '95, surprisingly well played and jazzy. We got good value for the admission price. But the crowd pressure was oppressive, the feel of family you recall was not really there. There were too many people and too many camps. The lot scene outside was sad. It was hard to hear the tour rats spare-changing over the hiss of nitrous tanks filling balloons. I thought then that it was likely my last show. "Summer time done come and gone, my oh my!" -- ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
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"slenon" wrote in message ... ...My position remains the uncommon and unpopular one I first stated. One hardly knows where to begin to speculate on what kind of warped vision of the real world inspires the delusional notion that any view you have expressed on this or any other matter is uncommon or unpopular, or how you would recognize any such distinction if it jumped up and bit you on your smug and supremely pedestrian ass. Wolfgang who probably shouldn't be surprised at a manifest inability to distinguish between one's position and one's persona. |
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In article ,
lid says... wrote: That and the nearly jingoistic pride that some people show towards activities that they have nothing to do with is just a little sickening. Aren't you the southsider who took time out of his busy day to taunt Cubs fans last week ? Why bother ? Why bother with anything? I'm obviously not that busy or I wouldn't be goofing around on ROFF when I should be working. :-) It seems odd to bring up taunting Cub fans whilst trying to refute the "pride that some people show towards activities that they have nothing to do with." Seems like a damn good example of it in my book. To be honest, none of this really bothers me it's just fun to poke holes at the silly things that the elitists believe in. Especially those elitists who are known to be "snotty, superior, misanthropic" about their own issues and don't recognize their own hypocracy when calling others' attitudes in question. :-) - Ken |
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While you and ET1 share a similar snotty, superior, misanthropic
attitude, the Evil Ken Twin is not a sanctimonious prick on a pompous, self-important crusade to "open the eyes" of society. Ken Fortenberry - ET2 I'd have to say that having seen your repeated ranting posts about the evils of Zionism you're a lot more closely mirror-twinned to me than he. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
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Fact is, both sports that could reasonably qualify as professional
"minor leagues", mens football and basketball, not only do not cost "higher education" big bucks, they actually generate funds for the athletic department.. Then why bother calling such professionals students? Call them what they are. Let the games support the games programs and withdraw all other funding. A true university can survive quite well with no athletic department. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
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One hardly knows where to begin to speculate on what kind of warped
vision of the real world inspires the delusional notion that any view you have expressed on this or any other matter is uncommon or unpopular Warped vision? Why yours, of course, sir. After all, if such an august person as your self, in consideration for arbiter, fails to agree with something I have expressed in a free and open forum, then I must be in error. Oh, my! I must have missed the column in today's papers confirming your appointment. I'll have my staff send a gift around immediately. or how you would recognize any such distinction if it jumped up and bit you on your smug and supremely pedestrian ass. Wolfgang I don't believe distinctions are venomous. But if such should occur I'll think of you when I need someone to perform oral venom extraction. "Smug and supremely pedestrian ass?" How kind of you to say so. But I must admit to use of a vehicle yesterday to travel for fishing purposes and today to transport groceries. who probably shouldn't be surprised at a manifest inability to distinguish between one's position and one's persona. No you shouldn't be. You fit the role rather nicely, too. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 |
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slenon wrote:
... A true university can survive quite well with no athletic department. You are confusing a University with a trade school and incidentally revealing a deficiency in your own education. Big time intercollegiate athletics has become an industry apart from the mission of the University, the tail wagging the dog, so to speak, but athletics, both individual and intercollegiate, is an important part of a well-rounded education. -- Ken Fortenberry |
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"slenon" wrote in message m... One hardly knows where to begin to speculate on what kind of warped vision of the real world inspires the delusional notion that any view you have expressed on this or any other matter is uncommon or unpopular Warped vision? Why yours, of course, sir. After all, if such an august person as your self, in consideration for arbiter, fails to agree with something I have expressed in a free and open forum, then I must be in error. Oh, my! I must have missed the column in today's papers confirming your appointment. I'll have my staff send a gift around immediately. or how you would recognize any such distinction if it jumped up and bit you on your smug and supremely pedestrian ass. Wolfgang I don't believe distinctions are venomous. But if such should occur I'll think of you when I need someone to perform oral venom extraction. "Smug and supremely pedestrian ass?" How kind of you to say so. But I must admit to use of a vehicle yesterday to travel for fishing purposes and today to transport groceries. who probably shouldn't be surprised at a manifest inability to distinguish between one's position and one's persona. No you shouldn't be. You fit the role rather nicely, too. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 See what I mean? Wolfgang hee, hee, hee. :) |
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slenon wrote in message ... ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar Curious. . . the Darkstar you refer to... is that Darkstar as in Alan Furst, the writer? Dave |
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"slenon" wrote in message m...
My position remains the uncommon and unpopular one I first stated. [snip of same stuff about too much emphasis on spectator sports, etc. Your sentence above nicely displays the holier-than-thou attitude that first prompted me to enter this discussion. I don't know where you got the idea that the concept that there is too much emphasis on sports is a unique or unpopular one. I daresay that most people who bother to think about it would come to the same conclusion. The difference between some of us and yourself is that while we might agree with the basic premise, we don't put ourselves in the self-important position of presuming to know what's best for them and feel the need to "enlighten" them. They are free to spend their dollars and time in any way that they see fit, as silly or distasteful as it may seem to you or me. The practice of threatening to move the franchise in order to get cities, counties, and even states, to affect taxation to build new venues is despicable. Tampa is the nearest case in point to my home. The franchise owners made the big threat and the county voted in a tax to pay for a new stadium. Had they imposed this tax upon only the fans, those voluntarily attending the games, that would have been a different matter. As a result, if I purchase food or drink, lodging, or transportation, anywhere in Hillsborough County, I am taxed to pay for a stadium I did not vote to build. Did the citizens who attend these games vote for this willingly? Was it shoved down their throats in lieu of losing "their team?" If the team was that ready to move, was it ever "theirs?" Is voting to tax yourself and others so that millionaire franchise owners can escape the cost of doing business and shift it to those less able to afford it the act of someone with politically opened eyes? And this of course is a wholly different matter than simply a case of too much emphasis on spectator sports. This is a simple matter of economics. Software companies, retail establishments, etc., etc., etc. are all the recipients of extra taxation or tax breaks. We are all taxed for services we don't use. But to think this would end if we could only "open the eyes" of those poor dumb sports fans is naive and condescending. Let's see ... a quick Google search shows that they are/were using Dan Marino in ads to help sell their cars. Is that what you're referring to? No. They are currently airing some horridly obnoxious clips of local fans, who certainly appear to be seriously impaired, dancing and shouting to the theme from "ghostbusters." Very, very annoying and the volume is boosted tremendously. I can usually ignore commercials or read through them. This one sends me scrambling for the mute button. We have quite a few annoying commercials in these parts, and interestingly enough, they are also for auto dealers. So we can agree then that auto dealers have obnoxious ads. [Dead concerts = mob scene?] My first show was in Aug, '68. I saw them at the Avalon and then shipped overseas the next day. My last was the stadium show in Tampa, 95. ( the old stadium, btw, now torn down to make way for the one discussed above) It was, for the end of tour in spring of '95, surprisingly well played and jazzy. Was that when Branford Marsalis or Ornette Coleman joined them for a few shows? I know I've got a tape somewhere with Ornette from around that period, and it's pretty fun to hear them interacting. We got good value for the admission price. But the crowd pressure was oppressive, the feel of family you recall was not really there. There were too many people and too many camps. The lot scene outside was sad. It was hard to hear the tour rats spare-changing over the hiss of nitrous tanks filling balloons. In another lifetime I lived in a neighborhood that was divided roughly half and half between students and working people. I got to know some of the kids pretty well, and I remember my neighbor coming back from his first Dead show and being ready to go on the road with them. His reason? The gas. I made him a couple of compilation tapes so he could actually listen to a bit of the music before he hit the road with the band. Chuck Vance |
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--
Ken Fortenberry: You are confusing a University with a trade school and incidentally revealing a deficiency in your own education. NO, my diploma really says "University." Though I'm sure I can guess the answer, what deficiency would that be? I'm just dying to know what I missed all those years ago. Big time intercollegiate athletics has become an industry apart from the mission of the University, the tail wagging the dog, so to speak, but athletics, both individual and intercollegiate, is ?an important part of a well-rounded education. Surprisingly, we partially agree here. It is an industry and should be separated from academic programs. But your well rounded education model stems from the British ideal student-athlete. Note that the word student appears first. Unfortunately, in our system, that is too seldom the case. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
i hate baseball..
Curious. . . the Darkstar you refer to... is that Darkstar as in Alan
Furst, the writer? Dave No, Dave. Darkstar in this context refers to an improvisational musical platform used by the Grateful Dead. Some of them were short and trash, some long and trash. But some of them were moments to recall, performances of a rare nature exploring time signatures, harmonics, chord structures, and in the best of cases, when transitioned into a figure known as "Mind Left Body Jam," explorations of music descending to chaos and back to quiet beauty. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
i hate baseball..
See what I mean?
Wolfgang Well, I see that if you, Wolfgang, apply yourself just a bit more, you can achieve true schmuck status. Let me know when you're through ****ing in the sandbox. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
i hate baseball..
"slenon" wrote... See what I mean? Wolfgang Well, I see that if you, Wolfgang, apply yourself just a bit more, you can achieve true schmuck status. Let me know when you're through ****ing in the sandbox. Stev, you're really making this too easy for him. -- TL, Tim Grandma always said, "An unchallenged Wolfgang is an unhappy Wolfgang." ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
i hate baseball..
"Tim J." wrote in message ... "slenon" wrote... See what I mean? Wolfgang Well, I see that if you, Wolfgang, apply yourself just a bit more, you can achieve true schmuck status. Let me know when you're through ****ing in the sandbox. Stev, you're really making this too easy for him. -- TL, Tim Grandma always said, "An unchallenged Wolfgang is an unhappy Wolfgang." One could wait for a more resonant cranium upon which to beat a sonorous tattoo, but then one would be left wondering what to do in the long dreary intervals and, as we all know, idle hands are the tool of the Devil......who knows what sort of mischief one might fall prey to while waiting for better opportunities to do good works. Wolfgang who, as can be seen from the above, has already been reduced by ennui to the rather embarrassing expedient of killing time by making a pastiche of haphazardly tossed metaphors. :( |
i hate baseball..
Chuck Vance:
I don't know where you got the idea that the concept that there is too much emphasis on sports is a unique or unpopular one. Perhaps from the fact that every news cast and every news paper dedicates a large proportion of its space to such events. Perhaps from the billions of dollars spent in public schools to fund such programs when the same schools can't provide books for all students. The difference between some of us and yourself is that while we might agree with the basic premise, we don't put ourselves in the self-important position of presuming to know what's best for them and feel the need to "enlighten" them. Well, I've yet to take out any full page adds in local papers, stand outside athletic events with signs, or spend any time calling into talk radio. Yes, I'm argumentative and opinionated. So are many of the participants here. I also feel quite strongly about social, political, and economic reforms that are divisive matters. When one says nothing about one's beliefs lest others be offended, how free is our society? If everyone merely accepts the status quo, then now is any change to be affected? Enlightenment is a touchy term. Here if Florida, I'd be happy if they just managed to teach more of the students to read at grade level. They are free to spend their dollars and time in any way that they see fit, as silly or distasteful as it may seem to you or me. And short of speaking against some of these manners, I've no intention of trying to prevent them. Notice that I said earlier that I don't gamble, not that gambling should be illegal or even that gambling was wrong. I've never been able to afford to gamble and the noise in the casinos is unpleasant to me. This is a simple matter of economics. Software companies, retail establishments, etc., etc., etc. are all the recipients of extra taxation or tax breaks. We are all taxed for services we don't use. Indeed we are. And when I'm afforded the opportunity to vote against such things I do. When I'm not allowed to vote, I do write to my elected representatives. But to think this would end if we could only "open the eyes" of those poor dumb sports fans is naive and condescending. I don't expect it ever to happen. I remain amazed at the loyalty of people to teams of players with so little reverse loyalty as to charge for autographs. So we can agree then that auto dealers have obnoxious ads. No disagreement there. Was that when Branford Marsalis or Ornette Coleman joined them for a few shows? I know I've got a tape somewhere with Ornette from around that period, and it's pretty fun to hear them interacting. No guests at that show. Pity, because it would have been a good show for either of them to sit in. I've got some shows with both of them playing. They are delightful. His reason? The gas. Damn! Sorry to hear that. But you gave him some other things to think about with the tapes. My list has some decent material if you're interested. -- ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
i hate baseball..
Wolfgang: by making a pastiche of haphazardly tossed metaphors. :( if he's reduced to making a pastiche, perhaps he should look for a recipe for a rat..ta..tat..ta. toulie. -- ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
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