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Put and Kill -so disgusting
"Ernie" wrote in message .. . Wolfie, Don't tell me some one actually eats hatchery trout! Ernie :) Wolfgang sometimes, all you can do with really beauty is just smile at it. |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
"Ernie" wrote in message y.com... .....For some reason our nearsighted Fish and Game and National Forest Service can't see the advantage of having clear running streams with stable banks and clean water with natural reproducing fish...... The problem goes well beyond the auspices of a few federal or state agencies, all the way back to the institution of a form of government that allows the putative elected representatives of ranchers, loggers, miners, professional guides, and sundry other multi-generational welfare parasites to have a voice equal to (and all too often greater than) that of rational human beings. It ain't gonna go away soon......or, not without some much needed bloodshed, anyway. Wolfgang but hell, that ain't ****....just wait till the water wars start! :) |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:04:26 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote: Let's drop YOU from a truck in a belly flop and see if YOU'RE hungry! :) When they're first stocked / dropped like that, they're usually just in a shock mode. If you had been there the next day, chances are it would have been a different story. Empirical Counterpoint: I helped Mass F&W do some stocking work a few times when I was a much younger flyfishingperson. The first time they stocked the Otter River (after many years off their stocking route) we put 600 browns and rainbows in via float pens lashed to canoes. It took a couple of hours to do the three-odd miles. When we returned to the put-in we had to cross a bridge over the river. On that bridge were a handful of locals, a couple of which were already gutting out a few trout. One of them pointed out the trout were packed full of debris - small stones, sticks, etc. The nitwit fish were gorging on whatever items they spotted - if it didn't look like part of a concrete tank, and they could cram it through their mouths, they ate it... So it would seem it wasn't that the trouties wouldn't "eat", it was they already "ate", too well. /daytripper (next time tie up a realistic "stone fly") |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
m... //snip// upstream, just sort of treading water. nothing doing. i finally applied my (ahem!) deft, artful touch to the t&t, time after time, to no avail. long story short: we tried six or eight combinations of dry flies, nymphs, and boogers, and never moved a single fish. explanations? yfitons wayno Maybe they were 'under the influence'. Anybody we know in the cabin or was there a clave in progress upstream? Bob Who's been skunked in Missouri's trout parks. |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
"daytripper" wrote in message ... On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:04:26 -0400, "Tim J." [snip] One of them pointed out the trout were packed full of debris - small stones, sticks, etc. The nitwit fish were gorging on whatever items they spotted - if it didn't look like part of a concrete tank, and they could cram it through their mouths, they ate it... So it would seem it wasn't that the trouties wouldn't "eat", it was they already "ate", too well. /daytripper (next time tie up a realistic "stone fly") They probably weren't taking those off of the stream bed. One day after float stocking (the same river I'd bet) I saw some of the meat fishermen toss out their power bait and toss a handfull of small pebbles over it. Aparently the splashing was like feeding time and they always got a hook up. I've heard of the same thing happening at White's. Paul |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:23:59 -0400, "Paul Goodwin"
wrote: "daytripper" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:04:26 -0400, "Tim J." [snip] One of them pointed out the trout were packed full of debris - small stones, sticks, etc. The nitwit fish were gorging on whatever items they spotted - if it didn't look like part of a concrete tank, and they could cram it through their mouths, they ate it... So it would seem it wasn't that the trouties wouldn't "eat", it was they already "ate", too well. /daytripper (next time tie up a realistic "stone fly") They probably weren't taking those off of the stream bed. One day after float stocking (the same river I'd bet) I saw some of the meat fishermen toss out their power bait and toss a handfull of small pebbles over it. Aparently the splashing was like feeding time and they always got a hook up. I've heard of the same thing happening at White's. It was the opinion of the head of the central mass f&w hatchery program that fresh stockers will eat anything they can fit in their mouths, and that it took a couple of weeks before they would figure out what gave them energy and what didn't... Couple that with the fact that those fish gutters came over to us and asked about the stones and sticks (and cigarette filter and bottle cap) and why these fish were eating all that stuff, and I suspect I'll go with the f&w dude on this issue... /daytripper (but that's just me ;-) |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message m... "Paul Goodwin" wrote in message ... In my experience freshly stocked trout will attack anything with a lot of action and/or flash. which brings to mind an experience that has always puzzled me. couple years ago i was fishing the hatchery supported section of snowbird with my youngest son, and as we geared up beside a beautiful run under a bridge that ran about 10 feet above the creek, up drives the stocking truck, and the guys start literally dumping trout from nets into the water. the fish made belly flop sounds as they cascaded into the waist deep run. off goes the truck, and ol' anthony says, sheepishly, "i don't suppose it would be right to try to catch them, would it, dad?" to which i responded, "hell, son, the only reason they are in the water is to be caught!", and told him to have at it. i watched him as he manufactured one excellent float after another right over the noses of several of the fish, who were lined up, facing upstream, just sort of treading water. nothing doing. i finally applied my (ahem!) deft, artful touch to the t&t, time after time, to no avail. long story short: we tried six or eight combinations of dry flies, nymphs, and boogers, and never moved a single fish. explanations? Sure. Same reason that whoever just got out of the ring with Tyson or Lewis doens't rush right over to the best restaurant in town for a top-notch meal. --riverman |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
Wolfgang wrote: explanations? Trauma. vaudeville |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
Willi wrote: My first though would be: "How can I get laid", but then I'm a man, not a fish. Depending on the time of year, that's high on a fish's priorities too. This morning I saw a huge Brown in the irrigation ditch that runs on my property going through the motions of spawning even though she? had no mate. quoting mr. seidman, "the described scene somewhat describes some of my intimate encounters already!" |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
i agree. we need more conveniently-placed, handicap-accessible put and
take fisheries. jeff James Ehlers wrote: Why be disgusted at something that gives people pleasure? Happy people are nicer to be around :) Relatively harmless activity in most states where put and take stocking occurs where natives would not exist anyway. |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
Ernie wrote: For some reason our nearsighted Fish and Game and National Forest Service can't see the advantage of having clear running streams with stable banks and clean water with natural reproducing fish. It would beat the hell out of fishing for finless rubber hatchery trout. Ernie Montana's division of wildlife did a series of studies on the effects of stocking catchable trout in rivers with populations of naturally reproducing fish. They found that stocking "catchables" actually reduced the overall fish carrying capacity of the sections of rivers they studied. Willi |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
"Jeff Miller" wrote in message news:3p9lb.95857$AH4.44122@lakeread06... i agree. we need more conveniently-placed, handicap-accessible put and take fisheries. Hm....... As handicap access is not your area of particular expertise, counselor, I hasten to remind you that "a marginal capacity to jog up six miles of indiscernible trail in the dark, wade wet for several hours in marrow freezing water, and then sprint back down the trail, leaving a parched fishing companion choking in dust, to get the pick of a rapidly dwindling beer supply back at the truck" is not a universally accepted definition of "handicapped". We do things somewhat differently up here. :( Wolfgang not to mention the disconcerting reflection on being left alone with all the bitey things in the woods. |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
If they only planted hatchery fish in waters that couldn't reproduce, used
catch and release in waters that could, kept livestock back from the streams, stopped loggers from destroying the habitat, kept mining under control, stopped pollution and restricted water projects from taking the water needed for the fisheries, this state would be one great fishing statye. Ernie I agree. Now what do you plan to do with all the people who live there? ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
Ernie,
I agree with you 100 percent. -- James Ehlers Outdoors Magazine www.outdoorsmagazine.net "Ernie" wrote in message . .. James, I have no objection to stocking where natural reproduction can't take place. Stocking places where natural reproduction is possible is detrimental to natural trout. Ernie "James Ehlers" wrote in message . net... Why be disgusted at something that gives people pleasure? Happy people are nicer to be around :) Relatively harmless activity in most states where put and take stocking occurs where natives would not exist anyway. -- James Ehlers Outdoors Magazine www.outdoorsmagazine.net "Ernie" wrote in message . .. Yes, 1. Stocked trout don't belong in any water where natural reproduction is possible. 2. Only Catch and Release should be allowed in these waters. I came across a bunch of hatchery trout in a lake that people were trying to catch. I told them to throw a hand full of small gravel at them. They did, which sent the fish into a feeding frenzy and they started catching them. I walked away in disgust and wondered if any of the people knew what it was like to catch a real trout with a full set of fins. Ernie "Gene C" wrote Even more amazing was the fact that within a couple of hours of going into the water they were going after woolly buggers! Any comments? |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
Well said, Stev.
-- James Ehlers Outdoors Magazine www.outdoorsmagazine.net "slenon" wrote in message m... I have no objection to stocking where natural reproduction can't take place. Stocking places where natural reproduction is possible is detrimental to natural trout. Ernie I'd be curious to know the exact number of states which have naturally reproducing trout populations. Of that number, how many had to have trout introduced into them to establish that population? While hatchery trout may not taste or fight like wild trout, and while put & take fishing is far less desirable than stalking and catching fish from natural populations, such programs do provide money that goes into conservation budgets. The people who make use of such programs not only buy licenses but rods, reels, flies, lines and all the cute little gadgets that make other fly fishers happy. Many of them will never fling flies anyplace else. Some will progress and move onto other waters. Having such places actually does decrease pressure on natural populations in marginal waters. While the purists among us can sneer and moan about such things, there are many people who are quite happily served by such fishing arrangements. And everyone of them who fishes there is not standing next to you throwing his line over yours. When I grew up, where I grew up, seafood consisted of breaded, fried shrimp shipped frozen and tasteless. I was fortunate to move and find out that other seafood existed. Even today, there are parts of the nation where "red lobster" provides the best seafood available. Sad but true. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
We are trying to do just that here in Vermont.
-- James Ehlers Outdoors Magazine www.outdoorsmagazine.net "Jeff Miller" wrote in message news:3p9lb.95857$AH4.44122@lakeread06... i agree. we need more conveniently-placed, handicap-accessible put and take fisheries. jeff James Ehlers wrote: Why be disgusted at something that gives people pleasure? Happy people are nicer to be around :) Relatively harmless activity in most states where put and take stocking occurs where natives would not exist anyway. |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
Willi,
Now is your chance to get them to spend the money on improving habitat instead of spending it on hatcheries. Montana studies show that stocking hatchery trout will reduce the overall number of stocked and non stocked trout that will live in the stream. California Fish & Game is too dense to accept this, but perhaps Colorado DOW will. I would like to see an electric fence unit which ran on solar cells. It should have a built in radio transmitter that would transmit an occasional coded radio signal to show that the unit was operating ok, or was in trouble (line went open, became grounded, had low batteries). This would alert someone to come and fix it. The unit should be maintenance free and easily replaced. One man with a Jeep and pulling a trailer full of wire and metal fence posts could easily set the posts, string the wire and install the units. Two strands of barbed wire should be about right. Livestock should be kept fifty feet from the stream. This would let the banks stabilize, improve water quality, and provide good habitat for fish and small game. Ernie "Willi" wrote in message ... In Colorado, a positive aspect to the introduction of whirling disease was the end of stocking catchables in streams and rivers. "All" the hatcheries were infected with WD and they decided to halt stocking in streams and rivers with natural reproduction. Now that they have clean hatcheries again, they have started stocking some streams and rivers, but the numbers are WAY down. Charlie W. and I have talked about this and we both feeling that fish populations (and the quality of fish) have increased when stocking halted. I hope our DOW doesn't go back to their old ways. Willi |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
Corporate welfare.
john "Gene C" wrote in message om... I find this extremely depressing on many levels. I was out of town for a couple of days in the middle of last week. I got home and knew that they were supposed to complete the fall stocking for Elk Creek in Cecil County Maryland. They did. On Friday afternoon they completed it. They put a lot of nice fish in the creek. Me, and two other fly fisherman must have a caught a dozen fish. Most of them were in the 12 to 15 inch range. That was amazing! Even more amazing was the fact that within a couple of hours of going into the water they were going after woolly buggers! Of the 12 or so fish we caught, one guy kept one. I fished again on Sunday for a while and the vast majority of the fish were gone! One guy had 5 real nice ones on a stringer laying in shallow water. Now I know put-and-take has it's place in fisheries management but these fish could have been there all winter. The water temps are right. The food might be a little scarce for that many fish but we could have had fun catching them for the next 5 months! I'm not a fan of PETA but I also see no point in pushing fish to a slow death of suffocation. Maybe I'm misguided but that mentality seems so selfish, so short sighted? I know this is the reality but..? Maybe all streams should have delayed harvest for a couple of weeks after stocking. That would allow the people who want to CATCH fish a chance to do so before the meat men arrive and yank them all out of the water for good. Any comments? |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
hmmm...hint-hint: if we get all those other folks focused on the easy
access, lotsa big fish areas by the well-traveled roads, that trail we were on can be run without bumpin into anybody else. and, as far as up there, being slowly but incessantly devoured by flies and skeeters makes a jog down a nc mountain trail seem quite pleasant, don't it? ... jeff Wolfgang wrote: "Jeff Miller" wrote in message news:3p9lb.95857$AH4.44122@lakeread06... i agree. we need more conveniently-placed, handicap-accessible put and take fisheries. Hm....... As handicap access is not your area of particular expertise, counselor, I hasten to remind you that "a marginal capacity to jog up six miles of indiscernible trail in the dark, wade wet for several hours in marrow freezing water, and then sprint back down the trail, leaving a parched fishing companion choking in dust, to get the pick of a rapidly dwindling beer supply back at the truck" is not a universally accepted definition of "handicapped". We do things somewhat differently up here. :( Wolfgang not to mention the disconcerting reflection on being left alone with all the bitey things in the woods. |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
"Jeff Miller" wrote in message news:X_ulb.97364$AH4.95108@lakeread06... hmmm...hint-hint: if we get all those other folks focused on the easy access, lotsa big fish areas by the well-traveled roads, that trail we were on can be run without bumpin into anybody else. Oh......um.....yeah, that's exactly what I meant. and, as far as up there, being slowly but incessantly devoured by flies and skeeters makes a jog down a nc mountain trail seem quite pleasant, don't it? ... Well, yeah, there is that. Matter of fact, pack a few pasties and some olives, it could be a real idyllic outing. :) Wolfgang |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
hmmm...hint-hint: if we get all those other folks focused on the easy
access, lotsa big fish areas by the well-traveled roads, that trail we were on can be run without bumpin into anybody else. jeff Why not go a little further and get them disabled access to all the golf courses. If they're playing golf, they aren't on the trout streams at all. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
Very, very funny indeed ... better yet ... trout ponds on golf courses so
licenses still get sold -- James Ehlers Outdoors Magazine www.outdoorsmagazine.net "slenon" wrote in message m... hmmm...hint-hint: if we get all those other folks focused on the easy access, lotsa big fish areas by the well-traveled roads, that trail we were on can be run without bumpin into anybody else. jeff Why not go a little further and get them disabled access to all the golf courses. If they're playing golf, they aren't on the trout streams at all. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
Very, very funny indeed ... better yet ... trout ponds on golf courses so
licenses still get sold James Ehlers Works for me. Add some real hazard to the water. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
"Jeff Miller" wrote in message news:Uk9lb.95844$AH4.79652@lakeread06... Willi wrote: My first though would be: "How can I get laid", but then I'm a man, not a fish. Depending on the time of year, that's high on a fish's priorities too. This morning I saw a huge Brown in the irrigation ditch that runs on my property going through the motions of spawning even though she? had no mate. quoting mr. seidman, "the described scene somewhat describes some of my intimate encounters already!" Hah! RWBNS! --riverman (GMTA) |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
jeezus... thought the wind blowin through your ears might carry a clue
or two. anyway, enjoy your time on the links. jeff slenon wrote: hmmm...hint-hint: if we get all those other folks focused on the easy access, lotsa big fish areas by the well-traveled roads, that trail we were on can be run without bumpin into anybody else. jeff Why not go a little further and get them disabled access to all the golf courses. If they're playing golf, they aren't on the trout streams at all. ---- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 Drowning flies to Darkstar http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message m... //snip// upstream, just sort of treading water. nothing doing. i finally applied my (ahem!) deft, artful touch to the t&t, time after time, to no avail. long story short: we tried six or eight combinations of dry flies, nymphs, and boogers, and never moved a single fish. explanations? How long after they were planted did you continue to fish? I have been told they wont bite 2 -4 hours after being planted due to the stress. |
Put and Kill -so disgusting
In article , Ken
Fortenberry writes What's amazing about that ? A wooly bugger is a spot on imitation of a trout chow pellet. You may as well be using power bait. Maybe I'm misguided ... Do you think ? Perhaps we should be posting to ROFTPF Rec. Outdoor Fishing Trout Pellet Fly :-) -- Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk |
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