The other adult beverage.....
 

Correction "........extracts more CREMA than any other"

The other adult beverage.....
 

wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 2:10 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:
You gotta speak
some other language.

My brother in law and I often muse on how it is that Starbucks seems
to have copyright on the Italian word for "twenty". :-)

In addition to your fascination with the roasting end of things,
consider- and it's not hard having seen the replies to this thread-
the various methods of passing the water through the grounds when
preparing the brew. Each method brings out a different flavor to the
end product, even if you use the same beans. I go through various
enthusiasms in this regard that last from a day at a time to months on
end- from standard drip machine through stove-top espresso maker (like
the aluminum one I use in camp on the Svea), pour-through (like the
other method I use when making a single cup in camp or the Chemex Tom
mentions), French press, and of course the simple "cowboy coffee"
method many of us use when there is a group in camp. All work equally
well- whether in the wilds or in the kitchen- and all will give a
different taste.

Yeah, I've messed around with all sorts of brewing methods for a long long
time. The French Press method looked appealing, and I still know a lot of
people who prefer it, but it does nothing at all for me.....too much sort of
in between and undecided in terms of get the grounds out or leave them in.
Percolators are an abomination, no need to equivocate. My favorite is the
drip method.....through unbleached paper, thank you very much, none of the
reusable (reuseless, if you ask me) wire mesh crap. Second
best.....surprisingly.....is cowboy coffee, which pretty much rapes all the
conventional wisdom about brewing coffee.

Most methods suggest that the water be slightly
below the boiling point when you put them on the grounds- not sure why
the espresso method works so well considering this, but who's to
argue? It works!

Espresso is a law unto itself.....it's SUPPOSED TO taste like asphalt.

Wm
(who likes milk and a little sugar with his morning cuppa.... so sue
me! :-)

Grew up drinking it that way.....well, from age 7 to 10 or so. I'll still
do that once in a while. Or, even better, plop a nice big gob of ice cream
in it! But that's not coffee. That's just a coffee flavored dessert.
:)

Wolfgang

The other adult beverage.....
 

On Jan 10, 9:19 pm, Steve wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:15:19 -0800 (PST), Mike

wrote:
Crema is the coffee oils that "float" on the coffee, most especially
espresso. Feshly ground beans produce a lot more cream than any other,
and the espresso method extracts more cream than any other,
( obviously temperature related).

Not to be nitpicky Mike, but crema is a result of pressure, and not
the same as the "foam" from fresh coffee which is caused by carbon
dioxide outgassing.

Indeed, which is why the espresso method extracts more, I was having
difficulty explaining it properly. Even spelt it wrong twice! I have
been told that the temperature is also critical however. True?

I just used an espresso machine which made one larger cup of coffee.
The pressure as such was not adjustable, there was just a preset
valve. I have heard that one can buy machines with adjustable
pressure as well.

I don´t have any of these machines any more. Gave them all away when I
moved into this smaller flat.

MC

The other adult beverage.....
 

"rb608" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 2:10 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:
What ****es me off (aside from the already mentioned fact that it all
tastes
like ****) is that you can't get "a small cup of coffee." You gotta speak
some other language.

That's one thing I won't do. I order a "small" and let them figure it
out. Some times I *have* be there, but I don't have to speak their
language.

Sometimes, on the road and in need of a fix, it's the only thing I can find.
I ask for a small coffee. They say our sizes are ibitty, bibitty, blah.....
I say are those the names of the various sizes of cups you serve? They say
yes sir. Well then, GIVE ME THE SMALL ONE!

(For a retail cup of coffee, though, it beats most other places. Most
other places for me being fast food, gas stations, & convenience
stores. Oh yeah, and the office.)

Somewhat surprisingly, the Kwikee Marts around here (well, some of them
anyway) are starting to use something more akin to boutique coffees and
brewing them directly into giant thermos jugs. Still ain't the nectar of
the Gods, but it's a damned sight better than what's been available for at
least the last forty years.....and much better than Starbucks.

Wolfgang

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:10:03 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:
Crema?

Now you're getting into the serious art of coffee I was referring to.
Here's another web site that actually shows good crèma and bad crèma.

I like the crèma, and as anything that taste good, it must be bad for ya.
I find spooning crèma like eating the frosting off the cupcake.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...Den %26sa%3DN

-tom

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Wolfgang" wrote

none of the
reusable (reuseless, if you ask me) wire mesh crap.



I always get "coffee stuff' at various gift times and once got a gold plated
filter ... pretty nice, imho



.. Or, even better, plop a nice big gob of ice cream
in it! But that's not coffee. That's just a coffee flavored dessert. :)


I, too, sometimes enjoy cream, and/ or flavorings ... but only after I'm
awake for the day G

The other adult beverage.....
 

On Jan 10, 3:02*pm, Steve wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:38:44 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Most methods suggest that the water be slightly
below the boiling point when you put them on the grounds- not sure why
the espresso method works so well considering this,

Because an espresso machine delivers water to the puck at 200 degrees,
which is usually the right temperature. Some blends benefit from a bit
cooler temp, but generally it's 200.

Even a stove-top "machine" (Bialetti Moka Express style) like I use?
According to the wikipedia article on the method (I know, I know...
man I hope Chuck doesn't see this post... :-) and to my way of
thinking, the water/steam is actually hotter than 100C when it heads
up through the grounds. As opposed to an electric machine, which uses
pressurized 100C water. Which would also explain why espresso from
my electric machine tastes different than the stove top method, come
to think of it... (the electric machine sits in a cabinet, don't use
it very often.)

Just curious. It's all good to me!

B

The other adult beverage.....
 

On Jan 10, 9:21 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 2:10 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:

You gotta speak
some other language.

My brother in law and I often muse on how it is that Starbucks seems
to have copyright on the Italian word for "twenty". :-)

In addition to your fascination with the roasting end of things,
consider- and it's not hard having seen the replies to this thread-
the various methods of passing the water through the grounds when
preparing the brew. Each method brings out a different flavor to the
end product, even if you use the same beans. I go through various
enthusiasms in this regard that last from a day at a time to months on
end- from standard drip machine through stove-top espresso maker (like
the aluminum one I use in camp on the Svea), pour-through (like the
other method I use when making a single cup in camp or the Chemex Tom
mentions), French press, and of course the simple "cowboy coffee"
method many of us use when there is a group in camp. All work equally
well- whether in the wilds or in the kitchen- and all will give a
different taste.

Yeah, I've messed around with all sorts of brewing methods for a long long
time. The French Press method looked appealing, and I still know a lot of
people who prefer it, but it does nothing at all for me.....too much sort of
in between and undecided in terms of get the grounds out or leave them in.
Percolators are an abomination, no need to equivocate. My favorite is the
drip method.....through unbleached paper, thank you very much, none of the
reusable (reuseless, if you ask me) wire mesh crap. Second
best.....surprisingly.....is cowboy coffee, which pretty much rapes all the
conventional wisdom about brewing coffee.

Most methods suggest that the water be slightly
below the boiling point when you put them on the grounds- not sure why
the espresso method works so well considering this, but who's to
argue? It works!

Espresso is a law unto itself.....it's SUPPOSED TO taste like asphalt.

Wm
(who likes milk and a little sugar with his morning cuppa.... so sue
me! :-)

Grew up drinking it that way.....well, from age 7 to 10 or so. I'll still
do that once in a while. Or, even better, plop a nice big gob of ice cream
in it! But that's not coffee. That's just a coffee flavored dessert.
:)

Wolfgang

For some reason, I still can´t see attribution arrows ( ) on your
posts!

Anyway, personally I prefer a good dark roast espresso to anything
else, for me it has the most intense coffee flavour of all. Many
espressos I have drunk in various places were simply awful, and I don
´t even bother trying any more now.

MC

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in



time. The French Press method looked appealing, and I still know a lot of
people who prefer it, but it does nothing at all for me.....too much sort
of in between and undecided in terms of get the grounds out or leave them
in.



I like it because I spend nearly half my life 'camping' ... I mainly drip at
home G

Oh, and even with the press/cup combo I mentioned up there ^ in reply to rw,
I transfer the coffee to a cup, leaving the grounds in the press


Cups? I was given an insulated ( double wall ) stainless steel cup
marketed by Orvis ... it rocks for camping, driving, dropping, my 'if I
can't break it it can't be broke" clutziness ... best Orvis product I've
ever had ( although my 'Small Stream Special" rod is a real dream for the
fishing it's name suggests )

The other adult beverage.....
 

On Jan 10, 3:39*pm, Steve wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:35:30 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Even a stove-top "machine" (Bialetti Moka Express style) like I use?

"Moka" pots operate under pressure, so the boiling temp is reduced.

So this phrase is incorrect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_Ex...s._drip_coffee

Or does the steam pressure that is created simply push the not-
quite-100C water up through the grounds? (as described on
coffeegeek.com)

Man, you go on more about coffee than Myron does about whisky! :-)

B

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 8:09 pm, "JT" wrote:
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message

I rarely (like almost never) drink coffee, however when my buddy brews up
a
pot with the above coffeemaker and his freshly ground beans. It tastes
pretty damn good on a cold morning stream side.

JT

For very many years, I was a confirmed tea drinker. Although I liked
the aroma of some coffees, the taste never lived up to the promise of
the aroma. I only started roasting beans because my wife drank a lot
of coffee, and wanted to try it, as others had enthused about it. The
only machines available then were very expensive, and I got the
feeling that they were rather more of a status symbol than anything
else. Anyway, I made one from a article in a magazine. It was a big
success. That was the first time I drank a cup of coffee which tasted
as good as it smelled. I mostly drink tea again nowadays, but I do
appreciate a really good cup of coffee now and again. It is also a bit
more like a "treat" if I only drink it occasionally. There is an
Italian restaurant not too far away from where I live, and now and
then I go there, eat something or other, and have a couple of cups of
coffee, The coffee there is really good.

In many other places, it is simply not worth drinking.

MC

Like you, I love the smell of coffee brewing in the morning, I just don't
fancy the flavor much. When I was a young kid and first introduced to
coffee, if I had been given a decent cup of coffee, I would probably be a
coffee drinker today. If I'm looking for a caffeine boost, I would rather
have a soda in the morning. Course people look at me cross eyed when I
decline the offer of coffee in the morning. Funny, my Grandmother always
told me I would drink coffee someday, so far I haven't acquired a taste for
it.

JT

The other adult beverage.....
 

"JT" wrote in message
...


If I'm looking for a caffeine boost, I would rather have a soda in the
morning. Course people look at me cross eyed when I decline the offer of
coffee in the morning. JT

Seems fitting back in 1885 when the original Coca Cola was made with
extracts of coca leaves.

"Boy you look a little cross-eyed this morning?"
"Yup, passed on the coffee, but had me 3-bottles of coca cola and a stack of
flat jacks."
-tom

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...

What was it you liked about the Harrar?
Assuming it was brewed at the correct temp, was it the flowery notes?
The spice? The acidity?

Ah, now THIS is where it gets interesting! As I mentioned, I've been doing
a bit of reading. This morning I found this site:

http://www.lucidcafe.com/homeroast1.html

One of the things the author mentions is that if you're going to talk
seriously about coffee you need to learn the vocabulary (just as in wine,
whiskey, beer, olive oil, etc.). I haven't yet. The story of my attraction
to Harrar goes back several years to a local independent coffee shop I used
to frequent. I went in there for the first time after picking up some stuff
at an Italian market next door. Not expecting much, I was pleasantly
surprised to discover that they actually made drinkable coffee. So, I used
to go in occasionally to get a decent cup of coffee. I would order whatever
they had on tap that day. One day is was Harrar. It was the best cup of
coffee I'd had since my aunt used to grind stuff she got at Kuhn's
delicatessen in Chicago with her old hand mill back in the late 50s.

What did I like about it? Well, it wasn't sour. I frequently hear people
talk about coffee being bitter if it's left on a burner too long (if it's
brewed into a pot on a hot plate it's already too long before the brew is
finished) or brewed too strong or if it's roasted too dark. Never did
understand that. Coffee IS bitter....it's supposed to be....to one degree
or another. The above mentioned ****ups make it SOUR. So, acidity? I
think maybe I don't know enough about the nuances of coffee to say just what
it is I like about this one. I THOUGHT it was the LACK of acidity. But the
descriptions of the East African coffees at the site above make much of
their acidity being one of their stong features. I dunno. Got a lot left
to learn, I guess.

If the answers are yes, you will probably enjoy most of the East
Africans. If it was primarily the acidity, that lemony tang, move over
to the Kenyans.
If it was the spiciness, try the PNGs, or a Latin American with a
review that mentions that aspect.

I'm going to have to do a comparison tasting to get any kind of idea at all
of what I'm looking at and for. And I'm going to have to have some sort of
score sheet that lists specific characteristics to evaluate. I've done that
with wine and learned a lot about why I preferred some over others.

You're going to enjoy this journey.

Oh yeah, of that much I am sure! :)

Wolfgang
and thanks for the help.

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:21:24 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:

Espresso is a law unto itself.....it's SUPPOSED TO taste like asphalt.

Oh dear, we have got to get you to a _real_ espresso bar.

A bit of hyperbole. :)

I've had good espresso. Down in Miami, back in '71, I used to drink Cuban
coffee. With all the sugar in that stuff it was damned near as THICK as
asphalt.....but it was good!

Wolfgang

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" wrote

none of the
reusable (reuseless, if you ask me) wire mesh crap.



I always get "coffee stuff' at various gift times and once got a gold
plated filter ... pretty nice, imho

To each his own. Paper filters better (much smaller pore size) and you
don't have to wash out the nasty greasy funnel.

. Or, even better, plop a nice big gob of ice cream
in it! But that's not coffee. That's just a coffee flavored dessert. :)


I, too, sometimes enjoy cream, and/ or flavorings ... but only after I'm
awake for the day G

I love my coffee in the morning, but I wake up easily without. I'm ready
for dessert as soon as my feet hit the floor. :)

Wolfgang

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...

For some reason, I still can´t see attribution arrows ( ) on your
posts!

For reasons unknown to me they are showing up here, or not, seemingly at
random. Affects some people's posts sometimes and not at others. Some
people's posts never show up without. It's a mystery to me.

Anyway, personally I prefer a good dark roast espresso to anything
else, for me it has the most intense coffee flavour of all. Many
espressos I have drunk in various places were simply awful, and I don
´t even bother trying any more now.

I like espresso well enough occasionally, but not as regular fare. To much
of a blast for one of my delicate sensibilities.

Wolfgang

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
I frequently hear people talk about coffee being bitter if it's left on a
burner too long (if it's brewed into a pot on a hot plate it's already too
long before the brew is finished) or brewed too strong or if it's roasted
too dark. Never did understand that. Coffee IS bitter....it's supposed
to be....to one degree or another. The above mentioned ****ups make it
SOUR. So, acidity? Wolfgang

The general basic rule of thumb is; if coffee sits longer than 10 min. the
bitterness starts to set in. And I do agree, "bitter" is a coffee term and
to
what degree is coffee bitter?
I'll heat the water in a pyrex pot, wet and set the coffee filter in the
Chemex
hourglass glass maker, grind and set the beans in the filter, and
immediately pour the hot water over the beans I then figure I then have a
shot time to not taste any bitterness. So that's where one cup of coffee
comes in to play on the
weekends.
Starbucks black coffee is bitter to me.
-tom

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:29:57 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:

Somewhat surprisingly, the Kwikee Marts around here (well, some of them
anyway) are starting to use something more akin to boutique coffees and
brewing them directly into giant thermos jugs. Still ain't the nectar of
the Gods, but it's a damned sight better than what's been available for at
least the last forty years.....and much better than Starbucks.

Wait until you try a McDonald's coffee from their new outlets and
recover from the shock of being served a pretty decent cup.

Many years ago they did make a pretty good cup of coffee. Can't remember
just when it was but all of a sudden it went right into the toilet.....also
a long time ago. Not that I get into McDonald's much anymore (maybe three
or four times a year for a Big Mac), but it would be good to know that
there's good coffee available somewhere on the road.

Wolfgang

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:10:03 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:

Crema?

The emulsified oils and proteins that appear on the top of (proper)
espresso as a reddish tan "foam".

Ah.

Thanks.

Wolfgang

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Mike" wrote


For some reason, I still can´t see attribution arrows ( ) on your
posts!




Mike, for some reason when I reply to YOU they aren't generated by Outlook
to quote you ( see this example ) ... I noticed this when we were talking
about casting from floating devices, I had to add them manually to indicate
quoted sections ...

The other adult beverage.....
 

On Jan 10, 11:09 pm, "Larry L" wrote:
"Mike" wrote

For some reason, I still can´t see attribution arrows ( ) on your
posts!

Mike, for some reason when I reply to YOU they aren't generated by Outlook
to quote you ( see this example ) ... I noticed this when we were talking
about casting from floating devices, I had to add them manually to indicate
quoted sections ...

Well, there must be a reason for it. It only happens here, ( this is
however the only Usenet group I use), and only with a couple of
posters. I use the default settings for Google mail. Apart from which,
I can not possibly have an effect on posts to which I have not yet
replied!

As soon as I click on "reply", the attribution marks for existing text
are set, along with any others that are already there. In Wolfgang´s
posts, there are none there even when he quotes another post.

This was also the same for you in this post! There were no
attribution marks in your post before I replied.

Maybe too much coffee overloading the system?

MC

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
Anyway, I've done a bit of research on line in the past couple of
days....there is a ton of stuff about coffee. But I'm wondering if anyone
else here has played with this and if so, I'd appreciate hearing about
your experiences, preferences, etc. If not, any true coffee lover should
definitely look into the do it yourself thing.

Wolfgang

never have bothered to roast the stuff myself(and, yet, I have frequently
roasted peanuts and other beans, so I figure it isn't beyond comprehension).
However, I do, whenever possible grind my own blends and try a lot of
different roasted beans. The real Blue Mountain is nice, several African
beans I have had are unique tasting, sort of winey in flavor. I do often mix
the latter with some sort of Central American arabica into a blend that
suits my none-too-sophisticated palate. At any rate, simply going
fresh-ground beats the crap in cans, so I would imagine that roasting would
add something as well, along with the usual do it yourself sort of
satisfaction with the process.
Tom

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
news:nmthj.8827$O97.1233@trndny01...

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

One very important point to remember: DO NOT use the same coffee grinder
for your coffee beans that you use for mixing dubbing. : )

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR


how many tiers have made this error? raises hand and remembers the unique
aftertaste of squirrel hair
Tom

The other adult beverage.....
 

On Jan 10, 11:30 pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message

news:nmthj.8827$O97.1233@trndny01...



"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

One very important point to remember: DO NOT use the same coffee grinder
for your coffee beans that you use for mixing dubbing. : )

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

how many tiers have made this error? raises hand and remembers the unique
aftertaste of squirrel hair
Tom

You need special coffee beans for fly-tying:

http://www.about-flyfishing.com/libr.../aa073102a.htm

Also, hairy coffee is one thing, but if you use ladies stockings for
straining dubbing, then don´t hang them up to dry afterwards in the
bathroom, where you good lady has also hung her stockings! If she
puts one of these on, she will almost immediately cease to be a "good
lady".

I have it on good authority that a hair shirt is merely a mild
nuisance in comparison!

MC

The other adult beverage.....
 

Larry L wrote:
"rw" wrote


coffee filters. The best way to make coffee on a camping trip (again, IMO)
is with a French Press. You can get plastic nonbreakable ones in different
sizes.


I broke the glass in my French Press last year at Craig, Mt.

This was, for me, a major emergency and I went to the Fly Shop and asked for
help. Mike ( I believe, I'm right ) is the very, very, nice guy at the
shop ( it also has one real jerk that always makes me wish I was shopping
elsewhere ) ... and he spend considerable time, even drawing a detailed map,
directing me to a tea shop in Great Falls ( 45 miles ) that was the best
bet. I rushed there hoping to replace the glass. No such luck, mine
was an odd size I guess, but they did have a Press/ drinking cup combo that
is wonderful ... all but unbreakable.

Tea, is, of course, another drink that can consume the consumer. The
little lady in the shop was SO nice and her place smelled SO great I took my
wife there when she flew in and she purchased samples of several teas. I'm
on orders to replenish her supply when I return to the area ... guess that
means I'm on orders to visit the Missouri again G

Santa also brought me a new press for the trailer, the glass fits inside a
protective plastic piece. I agree with rw, these presses are a most
excellent way to make coffee while 'camping.' I do have one recurring
problem in the Greater Yellowstone Area ... disposing of the used grounds
.... I don't want to put them down the trailer sink drain, they seem to not
empty from the holding tanks well .... and nice smelly coffee grounds seem a
little too inviting to just dump in bear country ? ... don't really want
to meet a Grizzly on caffeine

When using a French press you should grind the coffee more coarsely than
with filter coffee to avoid grounds.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The other adult beverage.....
 

rw wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:

One day last week, Becky stopped by with some freshly roasted and
ground Colombian caranavi.


You should get whole beans and grind your own as needed. Ground coffee
loses its freshness quickly. Keep it in the freezer in a sealed container.


the freezer thing isn't a good idea in my opinion. seems to dry the
beans out more than locking in or preserving taste and freshness. most
of the coffee experts i've read are against the freezer ploy. you simply
need to roast the amount you'll grind and consume in 4 days to a
week...then keep the roasted beans in an air tight container at room
temps...and grind them as needed. i like the darker roasts with the
oils shining on the beans i'm going to grind.

the best cup is the first one...and i get it the moment the brew is
done. the longer the brew sits on the hotplate the more bitter it gets.

i'm currently hooked on the organic french roast arabica beans from the
rogers family company www.rogersfamilyco.com it's the best grocery
store whole bean product i've found (and i've tried a lot)...and always
has the fresh oils still on the beans when i open the bag.

mark pendergrast wrote an interesting book about coffee - "uncommon
grounds". you ought to get it.

jeff

The other adult beverage.....
 

Wolfgang wrote:

So, while I appreciate discussions of the fine points and the arcana of food
and beverages (it's probably no secret that I love spending time in the
kitchen), and such talk is never out of place in any setting (ya gotta stop
fishing to eat and drink once in a while, right?), I've never really been a
great fan of hard liquors. I don't mind that talk of various single malt
whiskies crops up here from time to time, but it doesn't resonate for me.
Beer, I know something about, having sampled more than my share and even
brewed a bunch of my own for a few years, but I can't drink it
anymore.....gives me a headache every time. Wine, I like, but I've found
that I'm not interested enough to spend the time and money needed to learn
about it in depth. Besides, the ten dollar a box stuff works well enough
for my daily needs with supper.

No, my concern is really more for the other end of the day. For years now
(many years) I have been dissatisfied with the pitiful trash that passes for
coffee in this country. I've always known, of course, that something can be
done about it but never got around to doing it. That just changed.

One day last week, Becky stopped by with some freshly roasted and ground
Colombian caranavi. It got lost under a heap of something or other for a
day or two and then I brewed up a pot when it turned up again. Hey, this is
GOOD! Becky says talk to my dad, he sent me the roaster and a bunch of
coffee for Christmas. Becky's father has been roasting his own coffee for
25 or 30 years. He'd talked to me about it a couple of years ago but at
that time it just sounded like too much to get into in a life already
crowded with many other things. But now I'd tasted the result. It was time
to talk to Rodger again. So, Friday night I talked to him for about an hour
and ended up going he

http://coffeeproject.com/index.html

and ordering a roaster and a couple of pounds of coffee, Ethiopian harrar
and something listed just as Bolivian shade grown organic (I wanted the
caranavi but apparently it's only sold bundled with other things in some
sort of sampler).

This morning I roasted and brewed my first pot of the harrar. WOW!
:)

Anyway, I've done a bit of research on line in the past couple of
days....there is a ton of stuff about coffee. But I'm wondering if anyone
else here has played with this and if so, I'd appreciate hearing about your
experiences, preferences, etc. If not, any true coffee lover should
definitely look into the do it yourself thing.

Wolfgang



well alrighty then!! another thing to look forward to when next we go
a-fishin.

jeff

The other adult beverage.....
 

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...

I'd believe it....that is why I slipped in the none-too-sophisticated
caveat. I mean, supposedly, I have been
served what was purported to be freshly-roasted coffee in various places
here in the states(a couple in NYC and one or two in New Orleans come to
mind, along with one in Miami, so not limited to any specific locale).
Still, to my palate, I didn't experience any blinding moment of
enlightenment that made me forsake freshly ground beans of unknown age and
staleness forever. The mileage of others will vary, as always. On the other
hand, I think we could all agree that adding animal hair to the mix via the
tying blender adds nothing to the taste.
Tom
p.s. who has no real interest in those beans collected from
animal scat, and don't care who touts them as the last
word in coffee.......fascinating story on NPR about that
process a month or two back.

The other adult beverage.....
 

Congrats to Wolfgang for starting this thread. I got home from a movie,
saw that 80 posts had suddenly appeared, and assumed it was a flame
war.

|But no! Good strong stuff, with just the right amount of crema.

I've spent much of the past two months in Torre Annunziata, a very,
very rough suburb of Naples which I've been visiting for nearly twenty
years.

Among the things I've noticed in this time are that

- In even the meanest cafe, your espresso cup is kept in hot water
until it's used, so it doesn't cool the coffee.

- At most, a cup of espresso will be served about a quarter full.
That's a quarter in height - much less than a quarter of the volume.

- Italians drink only espresso most of the time - except possibly at
breakfast. You can have a coffee with milk - cappucino or latte - up
till about eleven, but after that it becomes *very* eccentric and,
frankly, anglo-saxon.

- Virtually all Italians, when they make coffee at home, use a plain
Moka stovetop machine.

- Every different big Italian city has its own coffee manufacturer. In
Naples it's Kimbo. In Trieste it's Illy (widely seen as an aristocrat).
I can't remember Rome, Milan, but they each have their own brand -
with, in each case, many different varieties.

- A beautifully made espresso in Italy costs around thirty or forty
cents - one of the reasons why Starbucks don't exist there.

I'm afraid I don't rate American (or English - or of course yeughhhh!
Irish) coffee much. The stuff people normally drink is watery. The
espresso is far, far too thin, and made with no idea of how it's
supposed to be made. There used to be an awful prententious habit in
upmarket places in the US of servin g a bit of lemon with an espresso -
you were supposed to squeeze the lemon rind so the oils would do
something or other to the coffee. But the coffee was so diabolically
bad in the first place that this pompous bit of fluff was farcical.

When I visit America now I alwasys bring with me an ingenious
electronic Moka machine that I bought many years ago at Milan airport.
And a packet of Lavazza.

Lazarus

The other adult beverage.....
 

jeff miller wrote:
rw wrote:

Wolfgang wrote:

One day last week, Becky stopped by with some freshly roasted and
ground Colombian caranavi.



You should get whole beans and grind your own as needed. Ground coffee
loses its freshness quickly. Keep it in the freezer in a sealed
container.


the freezer thing isn't a good idea in my opinion.

That's what the sea;ed container is for.

I have no interest in roasting my own beans, or growing them for that
matter.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The other adult beverage.....
 

Wolfgang wrote:

wrote in message
My favorite is the
drip method.....through unbleached paper, thank you very much, none of the
reusable (reuseless, if you ask me) wire mesh crap.

Grew up drinking it that way.....well, from age 7 to 10 or so. I'll still
do that once in a while. Or, even better, plop a nice big gob of ice cream
in it! But that's not coffee. That's just a coffee flavored dessert.
:)

Wolfgang



ditto on the drip...i have a bunn coffeemaker...it uses a different
spray of the hot water over the grounds, instead of the usual drip.
unbleached filters at times seem to change the coffee taste for me...a
paper-y taste...i like the bleached filters better.

jeff

The other adult beverage.....
 

Wolfgang wrote: but it would be good to know that
there's good coffee available somewhere on the road.

Wolfgang



rare...they sit on the burner too long. if you can find the thermos
dispensers, they're usually the best. or simply demand a freshly brewed
pot. g

jeff

The other adult beverage.....
 

Steve wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:41:01 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:


- A beautifully made espresso in Italy costs around thirty or forty
cents - one of the reasons why Starbucks don't exist there.


I hate to bear the bad news, but in September when my wife and I were
driving into Rome on the A-12...there it was! An effin' Starbucks. We
saw another downtown. Tragedia, tragedia.

One of the few time I was in a Starbucks I ordered a dopio (a double
espresso). They served it in a paper cup. If they do that in Italy I
think they might be facing some serious violence.

The Starbucks in Italy is probably for the tourists.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The other adult beverage.....
 

In article . com,
Steve wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:41:01 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

- A beautifully made espresso in Italy costs around thirty or forty
cents - one of the reasons why Starbucks don't exist there.

I hate to bear the bad news, but in September when my wife and I were
driving into Rome on the A-12...there it was! An effin' Starbucks. We
saw another downtown. Tragedia, tragedia.

??

http://tinyurl.com/2yb4et

Lazarus

The other adult beverage.....
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

and "how do I just order a good cup of strong black coffee?"


Got that right,
I walked into a Starbucks a few months ago, taken my chances on the
famous coffee house. Had to search the board for just a plain black
coffee...finally saw Tall, Grande, and Venti. What happened to Sm, Med,
Lg???
I had to wait in a long line behind a group of teens who ordered their
double cappuccino latte mocha decafs with a twist of lemon, then had to wait
again because the coffee wasn't made yet. Guess nobody orders just a simple
black coffee anymore.
-tom



there is an old steve martin movie with a scene involving a yuppie group
in l.a. ordering coffee that'll give you a chuckle...

The other adult beverage.....
 

rw wrote:

jeff miller wrote:

rw wrote:

Wolfgang wrote:

One day last week, Becky stopped by with some freshly roasted and
ground Colombian caranavi.




You should get whole beans and grind your own as needed. Ground
coffee loses its freshness quickly. Keep it in the freezer in a
sealed container.


the freezer thing isn't a good idea in my opinion.


That's what the sea;ed container is for.

I have no interest in roasting my own beans, or growing them for that
matter.


i don't roast them either...though like flytying i reckon it would be
sportin a time or two just for the experience. but, i still think the
freezer is an unnecessary effort for roasted coffee beans...even in
sealed containers. i'm sure others agree with you.

jeff

The other adult beverage.....
 

On Jan 11, 1:04 am, rw wrote:
jeff miller wrote:
rw wrote:

Wolfgang wrote:

One day last week, Becky stopped by with some freshly roasted and
ground Colombian caranavi.

You should get whole beans and grind your own as needed. Ground coffee
loses its freshness quickly. Keep it in the freezer in a sealed
container.

the freezer thing isn't a good idea in my opinion.

That's what the sea;ed container is for.

I have no interest in roasting my own beans, or growing them for that
matter.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Actually, it does not seem to make a difference. After a couple of
days, the roasted beans also start losing aroma. The ground beans lose
it even more quickly. After a week at most, even in the freezer, it
just tastes like "ordinary" ground coffee from the packet. Vacuum
sealing also makes little difference. We tried that a few times, ( not
easy to do either! You need a special filter to avoid sucking up the
coffee, but still evacuate and seal the bag! ) but there is a major
difference in taste once the roasted beans or the ground coffee simply
ages. Most of the ground coffee and beans sold in supermarkets etc,
even the very expensive stuff, is sold in vacuum sealed bags, but it
still does not taste like freshly roasted and ground coffee.

Finally, we used a dark glass laboratory storage jar with a glass
stopper seal which somebody gave us, and recommended. ( Can´t say I
noticed much difference with that either!). The only thing that made a
really noticeable difference was to use freshly roasted, ( and of
course after the "resting" time) and ground beans. I usually set the
roaster going about twice a week to keep my wife supplied, and I only
roasted a relatively small amount each time. A maximum of half a
pound, and often only 2...300 grams.

As I said, I really only did it for my wife, and some of her friends
who just loved the taste of fresh coffee, and some were real coffee
freaks, I was initially largely indifferent to the whole thing, but
even I could taste the difference easily, and I enjoyed quite a few of
the results, whereas I would not even have drunk most coffee normally.

It is something you just don´t know until you actually taste the
difference. It is also not that subtle a difference. It is the
difference between something that tastes pleasant, and something that
really doesn´t. It also has the side effect of putting people off the
"normal" stuff, ( whatever that is, I mean the ground coffee sold in
supermarkets etc, which many people here drink). Once they have tasted
a good freshly roasted freshly ground coffee, all they do is moan
about the other stuff!

One or two people also insisted there must be some tricks involved to
get coffee to taste like that, but I don´t known any such tricks. I
simply roasted it and ground it. Even the cheapest tastes better than
the most expensive ready ground coffee. One has to watch a few things,
which have already been mentioned here, like grounds size, and
whatever method or preparation is used must be right, but otherwise it
is not that difficult.

I imagine to get into all the subtleties of blending and all the other
involved things would take a very long time indeed, but I only did it
so my wife could have a nice cup of coffee. It was also actually
considerably cheaper than buying various coffees in the supermarket
etc, but I don´t know if that still holds true. Some stuff has become
very very expensive now. Probably as Steve pointed out, a result of
demand outstripping supply.

When we started doing it, there were not many people doing it, now
there are a large number of people who do it, and the machines are
pretty cheap and easily available.

MC

The other adult beverage.....
 

Steve wrote:

Coffee is stale 7 days out of the roaster. Nitrogen loading and/or
freezing doesn't change that much. Intensive studies have been done
looking for a way to change that without much success. Unfortunately,
there just isn't a way to get fresh coffee unless one roasts or has a
roaster they trust nearby.
Trivia: most Americans that drink coffee have never had fresh coffee.
That's not a put down, just an interesting (to me at least), factoid.

One of the great advantages of living in Rome is that you don't
have to know or worry about any of this ****. Walk into *almost*
any corner bar and you can be sure that the coffee was roasted
properly no more than a couple of days ago, the grinder was
filled within the past few hours, and the barista knows what the
**** he's doing without giving it much thought....

- JR

The other adult beverage.....
 

Mike wrote:
On Jan 11, 1:04 am, rw wrote:

jeff miller wrote:

rw wrote:

Wolfgang wrote:

One day last week, Becky stopped by with some freshly roasted and
ground Colombian caranavi.

You should get whole beans and grind your own as needed. Ground coffee
loses its freshness quickly. Keep it in the freezer in a sealed
container.

the freezer thing isn't a good idea in my opinion.

That's what the sea;ed container is for.

I have no interest in roasting my own beans, or growing them for that
matter.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


Actually, it does not seem to make a difference.

Maybe I wasn't clear.

The freezer is for the whole roasted beans -- NOT for ground coffee.
Freezing slows down chemical reactions. Increased surface area
(grinding) accelerates chemical reactions.

If you grind coffee and don't use it right away, throw it away. The
coffee is to be ground just before you brew it. Hand-held,
electrical-powered grinders of many brands work just fine, but they're
not uniform. You have to get used to a particular grinder to get a
consistent grind.

I store the beans in the freezer in the 1 lb sealed bags they come in
until I have to open one. I put the remainder of whole beans, which
lasts about the rest of the week, into a sealed container and into the
freezer. Plastic freezer bags work fine. It's important to keep water
away from the beans -- freezer burn. This isn't nearly as important with
whole beans as with ground coffee (which should be thrown away anyway).

I'll wager that I can store 1 unopened lb of premium beans in the
freezer for one year, and tested against a "fresh" batch you wouldn't be
able to tell the difference.

BTW, my ideal average ratio is 1 oz of coffee for 6 oz of water, but it
depends on the product and your particular preferences.

All this is IMO, of course.

In the morning I grind enough for two large (1.5 cp) mugs in the morning
and that does me for the day. When I was working I drank a lot more. :-)

I'm not a coffee snob. I drink it black, loathe the fancy recipes, and
I'll gladly drink convenience-store coffee if I need a jolt. But when
I'm making it for myself I'll take the easy minimal steps necessary to
do it right.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The other adult beverage.....
 

Steve wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:50:25 -0700, rw
wrote:


I store the beans in the freezer in the 1 lb sealed bags they come in
until I have to open one.


If you have the type of bag with a valve in it, you may want to switch
over to a mason jar or place a piece of tape over the valve. The Bosch
valves, because of the oil used, may freeze open. Not good.
OTH, if your happy, yer happy.

I buy nearly all my coffee from Peet's. No stinking valves. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.