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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:09:44 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:

you
MIGHT boost

Ooooops forgot to add:

Might? We are risking $900 billion on a "might".

Sheeesh indeed.

Dave

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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:22:56 -0800 (PST), rb608
wrote:

I realize you may be doing okay; but surely you don't see the present
crisis as an economic recovery for America.

Joe, eveything was going well in the 00s. Bush started off in a hole,
but the economy came around. Unemployment was very low, interest
rates were all but non-existant, there was little if any inflation.
The market was good and continued right up until last year when it was
revealed that all those crazy loans were made and the housing market
crumbled, along with several Wall Street firms, including the two Fs.
It was impossible to play the market and not make a lot of money
during the first six years of Bush.

Dave

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"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Like I said, please, PLEASE, give me $300,000.00 U.S. and I will
definitely "create" more than just one job.

really? Explain how? Creating a job is more than simply hiring someone, it
means that job has to continue through the forseeable future and yield
presumable profits of it's labor. Easier said than done, Louie.
Tom

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"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Pork, is pork, is pork. Pork is political pay off. We need none of
that right now.

Fortenberry asked you, and others to provide an example in the current
package. There are, to my knowledge, any earmarked specific projects in the
proposed bill. All spending will be controlled by the administration. NO
EARMARKS is the definition of NO PORK. Prove otherwise, David.....we've been
waiting already for a while, now.....


Tom, there are few people that love this country more than I do. I
want to see it healthy and safe, but this spending makes no sense at
all. You can not spend your way into prosperity, and "make work" jobs
only help for a very short time. The people that need the help are
the small business men/women who employ most of us. I doubt very much
that there is enough money in this bill to make a hill of beans to
these people.

you are wrong. It's that simple. I don't doubt your love of country, or good
intentions, but it is very clear at this point that you: a) haven't read any
details of the package, b) haven't figured out why we even have an economic
crisis and c) are reluctant to admit there really IS a crisis. Like I said,
you are capable of deeper thought than that.
Tom

I am tired of arguing this point. So, eot for me. You may have the
last words.

Dave



yeesh!
Tom

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"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Might? We are risking $900 billion on a "might".

Sheeesh indeed.

so, you propose to do nothing?? Sorry, I am unwilling to watch my nation
completely unravel.
Tom

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"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:22:56 -0800 (PST), rb608
wrote:

Joe, eveything was going well in the 00s.

No, it wasn't. As has been shown to you, an illusion had been created, of
prosperity with nothing to justify it.


Bush started off in a hole

....and, should return to one, immediately IMHO. Seriously, Bush started with
a balanced federal budget, and squandered it.

The market was good and continued right up until last year when it was
revealed that all those crazy loans were made and the housing market
crumbled, along with several Wall Street firms, including the two Fs.

and this is your definition of a good economy? Read your own words, and you
have demonstrated the sham I have been trying to point out to you. Making
money on the market was easy, for a while, but then again, there is always
money to be made on the market for those with the capital to invest
wisely(cue:RDean with a more lucid explanation of this). Still, for a
steadily increasing(over the past 10 years or more) number of folks who have
no excess capital to invest(I work with people who can't even afford to make
401K contributions, a matched investment), due to healthcare costs and other
expenses, playing the market isn't an option, thus is a POOR determination
of economic health in the nation.
Tom

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In article ,
says...
NO
EARMARKS is the definition of NO PORK.


I think the definition is, "Money spent far away from me" is pork.
Money spent close to me is "the new airport," or "the new school,"
or "the new highway"...

--
Kevin Vang
reply to kevin dot vang at minotstateu dot edu

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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:08:58 GMT, "Tom Littleton" wrote:


"MajorOz" wrote in message
...
2. It MUST be restricted to only useful vocations. No psych/soch or
other fingerpainting career paths.

It must be a blessing to be so blind as to not see the benefits from Liberal
Arts.

Um, yeah...just what the worldwide economy needs: to force the US taxpayer to
fund drawings of shovels, essays and boring-assed novels on shovels, an in-depth
analysis on the philosophy of what it means to be a shovel, and a bunch of
mother****ers screaming about how shovels have the right to a 20=hour workweek,
two weeks paid vacation, and how it is the basic right of all shovels to have a
plasma TV and endless Mochafrapachinos in the toolshed to watch and drink in its
off-hours...

Shovel-ready, indeed,
R

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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:47:00 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:


"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
.. .
Like I said, please, PLEASE, give me $300,000.00 U.S. and I will
definitely "create" more than just one job.

really? Explain how? Creating a job is more than simply hiring someone, it
means that job has to continue through the forseeable future and yield
presumable profits of it's labor. Easier said than done, Louie.
Tom


Tom, like I said in my mixed medaphor, you've drunk the koolaid hook,
line, and sinker.

If ANY small businessmas was given $300,000 to create ONE job, it
could do it. And, that job would last. If government, who does not
create jobs, is going to invest 900 billion bucks to create 3 million
jobs, WE are getting screwed, hook, line and sinker. That, in and of
itself, is pork. Give me the money, please. My son-in-law could hire
a butcher (he laid one off recently) for a couple of years. Give HIM
the money.

This bill has not been gone over my either house. It has not been
gone over line by line. There is hidden pork/earmarks in there
because it is a *spending* bill. And, WHY is it being rushed through
when none of the money will be spent for another 18 months. What is
so secret about this bill that it MUST be signed by this coming
week-end. I have never seen anything like this. Right now, we are so
far into debt (with this bill included) that we could not join the
European Union (if we were in Europe, of course). We are spending
ourselves into socialism. Do you want socialism, Tom.

I refer to you as Tom. Please refer to me as Dave.

eot

Dave


Dave, who advises everyone to buy/find/steal pure silver quarters and
horde them

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On Feb 11, 10:36*am, Dave LaCourse wrote:
If ANY small businessmas was given $300,000 to create ONE job, it
could do it. *And, that job would last. *If government, who does not
create jobs, is going to invest 900 billion bucks to create 3 million
jobs, WE are getting screwed, hook, line and sinker. *

The big flaw in that math is that you seem to be considering the
entire $$ amount as labor cost. It's not. All of the money used for
infrastructure projects includes equipment and material costs as
well. Just like your small business guy, creation of even one job
requires investment in supplies, raw materials, maybe real estate. I
do not see your point that the government's job creation capital
expenditures are in any way different than any other business.

The difference right now is that no business owners are willing to
make these investments, and the economy is grinding to a halt. If the
government doesn't invest, nothing will happen; and we *will* be
screwed.

Further, the government's expenditures *are* going to your small
business owners who *are* creating those permanent jobs in response to
the government's procurements. Bureaucrats aren't repairing those
failing bridges, small business contractors are. This money (at least
that part of it) *is* going to the people you think it should go to.

We're not getting screwed, it's just the government doing what needs
to be done when private enterprise is incapable of doing it directly.

Joe F.

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"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:47:00 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:
If ANY small businessmas was given $300,000 to create ONE job, it
could do it.

they could, but why would they in an unstimulated economy??
Tom

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On Feb 11, 11:10*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message

...

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:47:00 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:
If ANY small businessmas was given $300,000 to create ONE job, it
could do it.

they could, but why would they in an unstimulated economy??
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom

Now there's an idea, what we need is an economic dildo!

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On Feb 11, 7:36*am, Dave LaCourse wrote:

What amazes me is that folks who followed an ideology based on
ignorance, theivery and greed, folks who voted consistently for lying
assholes like Bush, supported traitors and scum bags, and who cheered
on an ideology that has bankrupted this country, can think they have
anything to say about what this country should do to get out of the
mess these same malingerers went out of their way to help create. The
sheer gall of it suggests a lack of impulse control and a serious
deterioration of reasoning capacity. It is harder and harder to take
what you say seriously.

Obama won. Get used to it.

Dave

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On Feb 11, 7:14*pm, Tim Lysyk wrote:
We have one in Canada. He's called the Prime Minister.

/rimshot

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On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:51:51 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

Obama won. Get used to it.

I am used to it, you twit. It has nothing whatsoever to do with
Obama, but with the House/Senate rushing this bill through without
going through a committee and without both chambers going over it line
by line. What the hell is the hurry if the money is to be spent in 18
months.

Ideology does suck, as long as it is not yours, right?

Asshole.

Dave

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DaveS wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:
snip
What amazes me is that folks who followed an ideology based on
ignorance, theivery and greed, folks who voted consistently for lying
assholes like Bush, supported traitors and scum bags, and who cheered
on an ideology that has bankrupted this country, can think they have
anything to say about what this country should do to get out of the
mess these same malingerers went out of their way to help create. The
sheer gall of it suggests a lack of impulse control and a serious
deterioration of reasoning capacity. It is harder and harder to take
what you say seriously.

It's been damn near impossible to take anything Louie says seriously
since he want on his Swiftboating binge during the 2004 election. I
mean the outrageous lies and smears he heaped on John Kerry have got
to be a disgrace to Bob Weinberger's socks ... or t-shirts, or dress
slacks or something, all I know is Swiftboat Bob has very sensitive
clothing when it comes to naval officers. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

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On Feb 11, 4:51*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:51:51 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

Obama won. Get used to it.

I am used to it, you twit. *It has nothing whatsoever to do with
Obama, but with the House/Senate rushing this bill through without
going through a committee and without both chambers going over it line
by line. *What the hell is the hurry if the money is to be spent in 18
months.

Ideology does suck, as long as it is not yours, right?

Asshole.

Dave

You said **** for 8 years while a bunch of thieves looted the country,
abused prisoners of war, ****ed on and ignored the Constitution,
tolerated espionage, wasted many brave lives, and lied and lied, and
doubled the national debt. And now you get concerned with the details.
Give it a rest Chief. No need to embarrass yourself. When you've
talked as much **** as you have, been wrong on most occasions for so
so very long, a little silence would garner a welcome relief far and
wide. Seriously..

Dave

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DaveS wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:
Ideology does suck, as long as it is not yours, right?

You said **** for 8 years while a bunch of thieves looted the country,
abused prisoners of war, ****ed on and ignored the Constitution,
tolerated espionage, wasted many brave lives, and lied and lied, and
doubled the national debt. And now you get concerned with the details.
...

It all started with the that moron Reagan and his "government isn't the
solution to our problem, government is the problem". With an asinine
ideology like that it's no wonder modern day conservatism morphed into
Grover Norquist's wet dream, shrinking government until it was small
enough to strangle in a bathtub. What did conservative ideology get us ?
Bridges that fall in to the Mississippi, levees that break, toys from
China that poison our children, peanut butter from Georgia that kills
Grandma, arsenic laced water, polluted skies, mountain tops scraped
into West Virginia streams and a big pile of stinking economic ****
festering in the American living room. And now Louie comes along to
whine that he doesn't like the brand of shovel being used to clear the
**** out of our living room. If the GOP and their apologists had any
sense at all they'd open up a big can of Shut The **** Up.

--
Ken Fortenberry

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On Feb 12, 12:38*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
If the GOP and their apologists had any
sense at all they'd open up a big can of Shut The **** Up.

Only tangentially related to the discussion; but I have a nice, big
coffee cup on my desk since the 2006 elections that says pretty much
that. "How about a nice warm cup of shut the f*ck up?" (Gotta love
CafePress)

Joe F.

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You really are a one trick pony.

I say wait and see. I've been safe the last 8 years. Let's see if
Obama can keep us safe. And, with this *first* trillion dollar magic
trick, I can see the bottom falling out of the market, the dollar
dropping like a lead baloon, and all of you socialists wringing their
hands and blaming it on Grover Cleveland, or Woodrow Wilson.

Silver quarters, Ken. Buy/steal silver quarters. Either that or have
octuplets. That'll work too. And if it gets *really* bad, I would
invest in a prayer rug.

Dave (high school grad who has *lotsa* silver quarters.)

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On Feb 12, 2:19*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
I've been safe the last 8 years. *

Well, there was a little incident about 7 1/2 years ago. Maybe you
heard about it? IIRC, a couple of planes sorta flew over your house.
I'll give you unscathed, maybe even unaffected; but not safe.

Joe F.

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rb608 wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:
I've been safe the last 8 years.

Well, there was a little incident about 7 1/2 years ago. Maybe you
heard about it? ...

LOL !!

Yeah, I imagine the outcome would have been quite different if it
had been Obama instead of Shrub who got the National Security memo
titled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" on August 6, 2001.

--
Ken Fortenberry

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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:41:31 -0800 (PST), rb608
wrote:

On Feb 12, 2:19*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
I've been safe the last 8 years. *

Well, there was a little incident about 7 1/2 years ago. Maybe you
heard about it? IIRC, a couple of planes sorta flew over your house.
I'll give you unscathed, maybe even unaffected; but not safe.

Joe F.

Which was planned 8 1/2 years ago. Nothing happened after that, Joe,
and that is ALL I ask from my government - keep me safe.

Today's America scares me. Whatever happened to the words, "Ask not
what your country can do for you...."?

Dave

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On Feb 12, 2:52*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
Yeah, I imagine the outcome would have been quite different if it
had been Obama instead of Shrub who got the National Security memo
titled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" on August 6, 2001.


I gotta concede that I don't necessarily blame the Shrub for not
stopping the attacks. Where he showed his colors was in reading "The
Pet Goat" for 7 minutes after being told the nation had been
attacked. I don't know what will come at us in the next 8 years, but
I'm confident that BHO isn't a fraction of the ****up Bush was.

Joe F.

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rb608 wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Yeah, I imagine the outcome would have been quite different if it
had been Obama instead of Shrub who got the National Security memo
titled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" on August 6, 2001.

I gotta concede that I don't necessarily blame the Shrub for not
stopping the attacks. Where he showed his colors was in reading "The
Pet Goat" for 7 minutes after being told the nation had been
attacked. I don't know what will come at us in the next 8 years, but
I'm confident that BHO isn't a fraction of the ****up Bush was.

The 9/11 Commission wasn't quite as quick to let Shrub off the hook
but they didn't come right out and say he could have stopped the
attacks. Obama has to be an improvement over that imbecile, but then
that's setting a very low bar.

--
Ken Fortenberry

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On Feb 12, 2:59*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Which was planned 8 1/2 years ago. *Nothing happened after that, Joe,
and that is ALL I ask from my government - keep me safe. *

I'll agree that's one of the government's primary functions. Heck,
"provide for the common defense" is right there in the Preamble. And
I don't deny that a lot of the planning and prep for the WTC attacks
happened in the years prior to the execution; but the oft repeated
claim that "Bush kept us safe" is utter bull****, and it kinda chafes
my ass a bit. "Nothing happened after that" ignores a rather
substantial aspect of the plot, I'd say.

A great deal of the fear and lack of security we experience today is
because of the military and foreign policy decisions Bush made, and
almost no one disputes that we have created more terrorists than we
have eliminated since WTC.

I have no clue what's going to happen under BHO, and we may in fact
see another attempt, successful or not, at a similar attack. I have
confidence that his decisions as to intelligence gathering and
analysis will not be politically or policy driven, that he will place
competent people in key positions, he will listen objectively to what
he's told, his foreign policy will try to avert crises rather than
create them, and that he will do his best to protect this nation. He
may fail; but I can't ask for more than that, and that's more than W
gave us.

As always, IMHO, of course.

Joe F.

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"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
I've been safe the last 8 years.

so what? I've pretty much been safe my whole life, and the President at the
time had less to do with it than a lot of other folks(cops, firemen,
servicemen and women, etc).
Well, there were a few trips to the Lower East Side that got a bit scary,
but....
Still, if you were spooked by one terrorist act, you ought to consider what
life is like elsewhere in the world, yet folks continue with life, and don't
get all antsy over it.

Dave (high school grad who has *lotsa* silver quarters.)

big man, keep reminding everyone....we're just so impressed.
Tom

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"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Whatever happened to the words, "Ask not
what your country can do for you...."?

went right out the window when Reagan got elected.
Tom
p.s. I hope we can get back to that concept, I really do.

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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 01:37:27 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:

.we're just so impressed.

I wasn't speaking of my wealth, Tom. Joanne's father, PhD in
economics, saved silver quarters over the years, thinking that if
there ever was another depression that small pieces of silver would be
ideal bartering tools. Gold doesn't come in small portions, so silver
quarters seemed ideal to him. When he died, Joanne got 1/4 of his
quarters, about $400 in face value, but worth far more than that for
silver content. I hope my great great grandchildren don't get to use
them.

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"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
I wasn't speaking of my wealth, Tom. Joanne's father, PhD in
economics, saved silver quarters over the years, thinking that if
there ever was another depression that small pieces of silver would be
ideal bartering tools. Gold doesn't come in small portions, so silver
quarters seemed ideal to him. When he died, Joanne got 1/4 of his
quarters, about $400 in face value, but worth far more than that for
silver content. I hope my great great grandchildren don't get to use
them.


ok, Dave....it did come off differently, sans explanation.
Odd response of his(I wouldn't question the expertise of a professional
economist, but he DID have a PhD, so eccentric comes with the package, in my
experience), to collect potential items of barter. The Great Depression
seems to have left an indelible impression on all who lived through it(both
of my folks are still alive and were around in that period). I hope we, and
our children don't have to go through the hardships that society provided(at
almost all levels of affluence) in those days. This economy makes me uneasy,
and has for several years(I was writing about dubious paper behind the
'boom' back in 2005 here, and elsewhere). I hope I'm just being pessimistic
or overcautious.
Tom