A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...

We have an original poster who claimed that nasty bait fishermen were
petitioning to remove all of *our* water in PA He then supplies some
details, some figures on miles of water, and some suggestions about a
course of action to counter the petition.

However, we don't know for su

1. If there is a bait fisherman's petition?

Yes, the Fishing and Boating Commission site that the OP refered us to
explictily says so.

2. If there is one, what it is asking for?

That *all* delayed harvest waters be open to all tackle during the harvest
part of the season.

3. If it is petitioning for what was claimed, what the effects will
be?

Unstated, but at least in the delayed harvest waters that I fish, it would
mean that landowners would withdraw access. I know, because I've spoken to
the landowners. Whether or not the stereotype of bait fishermen as
litterbugs is true or not, the landowners perceive it to be true, and will
mean the loss of at least the delayed harvest portion of Falling Spings in
Chambersburg.

4. What are its chances of success?

Certainly higher, if no one objects.

5. What was the triggering event for the petition?

Apparently, an increase in the license fee.

6. Are bait fishermans' and fly fishermans' interests actually at
loggerheads in PA?

In this instance, yes.

7. If they are, why?
8. What is the actual state of relations between these two factions
(if they are indeed factions)?
9. If anything really needs to be done?
10. If there will be any negative consequences if nothing is done?

Loss of access.

11. Are the figures quoted actually correct?
12. Are the rest of the facts correct?
13. Is the imputed influence of letter writers opposing the petiton
really of consequence?


The Commission has requested public input. And by past history, they at
least consider it.

I'm not a snob about flyfishing -- if someone wants to fish with bait,
that's fine. But as someone with a stream with all tackle regs within a 5
minute drive, I can tell that the tremendous amount of trash along side said
stream isn't leader wrappers. I've pulled garbage bags full of bait
containers out in streamside cleanups in recent years. And although I can't
say sure that all empty beer bottles found in the same trash heaps came from
bait fishermen, if I were a betting man, that's the way I would bet.

Bob Dietz

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

I will never, ever give you a cigarette.....

john

eter Charles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 08:32:30 -0700, Willi wrote:



Peter Charles wrote:


While I agree with the sentiment, there's a world of a difference
between a UK carp angler or a Canadian float fisher, on the one hand,
and Bubba Beer-belly (or the Canuck hoser variant) who thinks it's his
God-given right to trash the bankside, spread his garbabge about,
vacuum up all the fish, and let his shrieking wife, horde of brats,
and defecating dogs wreak havoc for anybody else who might be trying
to fish the same waters.

I don't give a **** what people use for tackle provided they respect
the resource and other people. Tackle restrictions in Canada and the
US have been put in place precisely because those that have respect,
seem to be in the minority.


Maybe I'm misreading what your saying, but I don't think that special
regulations are put into place to control those who: "thinks it's his
God-given right to trash the bankside, spread his garbabge about,
vacuum up all the fish, and let his shrieking wife, horde of brats,
and defecating dogs wreak havoc for anybody else who might be trying
to fish the same waters."


IMO, special regulations, or regulations of any sort for that matter,
should be used as management techniques to protect self sustaining fish
populations, not for social engineering.

Willi


You are missing what I'm saying . . . Bubba Beer-belly is the type who
is also most likely to take every fish he can lay his fat, grubby,
nicotine stained fingers on. The rest of his activities simply
reflect his distain for the rest of hummanity. Regulations are in
place precisely because we have far too many people who think it's
their God-given right to take everything they can get and **** the
next guy. This isn't a class issue as the blue suit crowd is just as
culpable as the blue collars.

Peter

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A Plea for help & a head's up
 

On 22 Feb 2004 13:06:41 GMT, "asadi"
wrote:

I will never, ever give you a cigarette.....

john

as long as you share the jim beam . . .

Peter

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"just al" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Peter. I learned how to argue and debate on a news server...

Hm.....

You appear to be suggesting either that Usenet is where you learned how to
argue and debate, or that Peter was instrumental in teaching how to do so
correctly within this medium. If the former, you got a very late start and
failed to get the best instruction that was probably available to you. If
the latter, Peter can hardly be held solely responsible for the
outcome......it was, after all, a cooperative venture.....or should have
been. In either case, the conclusion that you're education is not yet
complete is inescapable.

Wolfgang

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
In either case, the conclusion that you're education is not yet
complete is inescapable.

I hate it when I do that. g

Joe F.

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Wayne Knight" wrote

what i find rather sad is that you would even try and use the appearance
of
one's tackle a clue as to your desire to be associated with someone. Some
of
use learned a long time of the adage not to judge a book by it's cover.



Agreed. As I often do, I failed to see all the possible ways to read my own
words .

Ken's "In the minority AND fly fishermen," seemed to me to imply that ONLY
the fly fishermen "respect the resource and other people."

I may have misread his intent, but as I read it, my experience shows it to
be way off base, and getting more so.

I think we are largely saying the same thing, judge the individual by his
actions, not the type or price of his equipment.

FFing has been my only fishing since '71, but it has been a fourth tier
hobby on my list, behind dogs and hunting and other things. The last few
years have moved it up a tier or two and have changed the impression I have
of the "average" fly fisherman. I DO believe that I'm running into a far
higher percentage of people waving fly rods that do not fair well under
individual judgement. That increase is what I find sad, i.e. the fact that
fewer FFers seem to "respect the resource and other people" than in years
past.

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

It was the second. I'm sure you're correct. Can't wait to find myself in a
new heated situation because it's still so cold outside...
"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"just al" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Peter. I learned how to argue and debate on a news server...

Hm.....

You appear to be suggesting either that Usenet is where you learned how to
argue and debate, or that Peter was instrumental in teaching how to do so
correctly within this medium. If the former, you got a very late start
and
failed to get the best instruction that was probably available to you. If
the latter, Peter can hardly be held solely responsible for the
outcome......it was, after all, a cooperative venture.....or should have
been. In either case, the conclusion that you're education is not yet
complete is inescapable.

Wolfgang

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:35:53 -0500, "Bob Dietz"
wrote:

[snip]

3. If it is petitioning for what was claimed, what the effects will
be?

Unstated, but at least in the delayed harvest waters that I fish, it would
mean that landowners would withdraw access. I know, because I've spoken to
the landowners. Whether or not the stereotype of bait fishermen as
litterbugs is true or not, the landowners perceive it to be true, and will
mean the loss of at least the delayed harvest portion of Falling Spings in
Chambersburg.

[snip]

The Commission has requested public input. And by past history, they at
least consider it.

I'm not a snob about flyfishing -- if someone wants to fish with bait,
that's fine. But as someone with a stream with all tackle regs within a 5
minute drive, I can tell that the tremendous amount of trash along side said
stream isn't leader wrappers. I've pulled garbage bags full of bait
containers out in streamside cleanups in recent years. And although I can't
say sure that all empty beer bottles found in the same trash heaps came from
bait fishermen, if I were a betting man, that's the way I would bet.


This would seem to suggest that a joint action by fishing clubs +
landowners associations might be advantageous. If the fly fishers
complain of access and garbage, the commision might see the argument
as self-serving. If the landowners voice the same concern, then the
argument can't be so easily dissmissed.



Peter

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A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

fewer FFers seem to "respect the resource and other people" than in years
past.


Perhaps a reflection of society as a whole these days and not particularly
fly fishing.

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"just al" wrote in
:


It was the second. I'm sure you're correct. Can't wait to find myself
in a new heated situation because it's still so cold outside...

Okay ... now about top posting ...


;-)

Steve

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Stephen Welsh wrote:

"just al" wrote:

It was the second. I'm sure you're correct. Can't wait to find myself
in a new heated situation because it's still so cold outside...


Okay ... now about top posting ...

That's the least of ja's problems. The poor guy is so slow it takes
him an hour and a half to watch 60 Minutes.

--
Ken Fortenberry

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:35:18 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


"Peter Charles" wrote in message
.. .

. . . Bubba Beer-belly is the type who
is also most likely to take every fish he can lay his fat, grubby,
nicotine stained fingers on....

Yeah, them ****in' smokers should all be shot!

Wolfgang


you quit all of a sudden?

Not so's you'd notice.

Wolfgang
even lepers need love.

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Bob Patton wrote:


I suspect that most people who are taking fish do so in the summer, so
designating the water as C&R only in the winter probably prevents few of
them from fishing, but it does provide an attractive opportunity for fly
fishermen.

If it "prevents few of them from fishing", what is the purpose of the
regulation?

Willi

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Peter Charles wrote:


Anybody who fishes for steelhead and salmon on the Great Lakes can't
get too snooty about stockers for every damned salmonid swimming the
Great Lakes (Superior coasters excepted)


Are they still working on trying to re-establish healthy population of
Coasters?


Willi

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Wayne Knight wrote:

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

fewer FFers seem to "respect the resource and other people" than in years
past.

I sometimes have similar feelings about what you saying but I think
that's do partly to old fartism and partly because there are so many
more fly fishermen on the rivers today. With any group of people, there
are going to be assholes. The larger the group, the more assholes there
are (as well as more decent folk). I also don't think that fly fishing
works well as a group or social activity. As streams and rivers get more
crowded, people get "forced" to compete for space and are "forced" to
interact with other people in some way or another. If a stream or river
is uncrowded and you come upon another fisherman, you can just go around
that fisherman and get out of sight before you start fishing (which was
the "etiquette" I was taught). In crowded waters, that's not an option.


Perhaps a reflection of society as a whole these days and not particularly
fly fishing.


I don't buy that. When I grew up in the fifties there was MUCH more
litter around. The roadsides had trash all over and the streams and
rivers were often used as dumping grounds for stuff like old
refrigerators, cars, assorted appliances etc. IMO, litter is WAY down
including streamside.

Willi

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"rb608" wrote in message
...
"Wolfgang" wrote in message
In either case, the conclusion that you're education is not yet
complete is inescapable.

I hate it when I do that. g

Their they're....it's alright. :)

Wolfgang

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"just al" wrote in message
...
....Can't wait to find myself in a
new heated situation because it's still so cold outside...

You ain't seen ****......yet......Sparky.

Wolfgang

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Bob Patton" rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote in message
...

I understand the sentiment, but delayed harvest waters that are stocked in
October can be a blast to fish in in the spring. Access generally is not
very hard and after a few months in the stream the fish are fun to catch.
It's not as psychically rewarding as catching wild fish in a remote spot,
but if you have limited time and want to have a pretty good fishing
experience, it's not bad. They are especially good places to take
youngsters
who are learning to fly-fish.

Frank Reid and Allen Epps posted great TRs earlier that were good
descriptions of spring-time fishing in delayed-harvest water. Don't know
that their stream was D-H, but the experience appears similar.

I suspect that most people who are taking fish do so in the summer, so
designating the water as C&R only in the winter probably prevents few of
them from fishing, but it does provide an attractive opportunity for fly
fishermen. The result, IMO, is an overall larger number of fishermen in
the
course of a year, and more sales of licenses and fly fishing tackle (and
more much-needed tax revenue for the fish & game department) - revenue
that
would not have happened without the delayed-harvest program. It may also
be
true that streams within commuting distance of major metropolitan areas
lend
themselves to delayed-harvest programs.

Oh yeah? Well......well....um....****!

Wolfgang
to whom nothing is more distressing than a reasonable and rational argument,
well presented. :(

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:30:57 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


"Peter Charles" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:35:18 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


"Peter Charles" wrote in message
.. .

. . . Bubba Beer-belly is the type who
is also most likely to take every fish he can lay his fat, grubby,
nicotine stained fingers on....

Yeah, them ****in' smokers should all be shot!

Wolfgang


you quit all of a sudden?

Not so's you'd notice.

Wolfgang
even lepers need love.

we love ya man, but with all this gay marriage stuff, it's not to
kosher to say it too loudly -- ah-nold might hear.

Peter

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A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Ok what's top posting...this too, I'm sure, will get me in trouble...
"Stephen Welsh" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"just al" wrote in
:


It was the second. I'm sure you're correct. Can't wait to find myself
in a new heated situation because it's still so cold outside...

Okay ... now about top posting ...


;-)

Steve

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

But such litter back then was riprap now it is the result of riffraff

{ducks and runs for cover in ebay for cheap tying materials while still
peeking for an opprtunity to rebuttal}

"Willi" wrote in message
...


Wayne Knight wrote:

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

fewer FFers seem to "respect the resource and other people" than in
years
past.

I sometimes have similar feelings about what you saying but I think
that's do partly to old fartism and partly because there are so many
more fly fishermen on the rivers today. With any group of people, there
are going to be assholes. The larger the group, the more assholes there
are (as well as more decent folk). I also don't think that fly fishing
works well as a group or social activity. As streams and rivers get more
crowded, people get "forced" to compete for space and are "forced" to
interact with other people in some way or another. If a stream or river
is uncrowded and you come upon another fisherman, you can just go around
that fisherman and get out of sight before you start fishing (which was
the "etiquette" I was taught). In crowded waters, that's not an option.


Perhaps a reflection of society as a whole these days and not
particularly
fly fishing.


I don't buy that. When I grew up in the fifties there was MUCH more
litter around. The roadsides had trash all over and the streams and
rivers were often used as dumping grounds for stuff like old
refrigerators, cars, assorted appliances etc. IMO, litter is WAY down
including streamside.

Willi

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:08:21 GMT, "just al"
wrote:

Ok what's top posting...this too, I'm sure, will get me in trouble...

http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usen.../faq_topp.html
--
Charlie...

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Willi" wrote


I sometimes have similar feelings about what you saying but I think
that's do partly to old fartism


hehe, I will admit that I often wonder if my attitude is more the result of
reality or more the result of the "good ole days were better" B.S. that I
used to see in the old farts, before I became one ...certainly, I have less
patience with others than in years gone by

I'm sure I come across as more negative than I really am ... just something
about me and my approach to things.

I once got a GREAT dog in for training. After the first couple weeks I got
a phone call from the owner and I proceeded to point out many elements of
the dogs nature that would need work and effort, if he were to reach his
potential. After a bit, the owner interrupted my spiel with, "Sounds like
he's a washout, when do you want me to pick him up?" He thought I was being
totally negative, until I replied..

"WASHOUT !!!!????? This is one of the finest young animals I've ever had
my hands on ..... I'd NEVER bother to spend the extra time and effort
thinking about the little weaknesses of a lesser one. The fact that after
only two weeks with him I'm deeply committed to examining every little thing
I can to improve him is a great compliment of him, not a criticism."

My "negative" attitude about the modern fly fisher has similar elements ....
if it wasn't such a wonderful sport, I wouldn't be interested enough to
point out the weaknesses I do see .... it pays to invest your interest in
the best. FFing is one of the best outdoor activities ..... but, it could
be better. One thing I've discussed with three people publishing "how to"
articles and books is the idea of including more about "ethics" in such
material. Seems to me that we used to learn technique from granddad and dad
and more experienced friends and we ALSO learned how to behave from those
same people. Now, many guys are learning technique from videos and guides
that don't also provide the other types of instruction. We used to learn
proper behavior from "a look" ( smile or frown) or a choice word or two from
a respected person .... now that the educational system is changing, the
new technique educators should provide for a replacement to those old
behavior teaching "looks" ...imho

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Willi" wrote in message
...

//snip//
If it "prevents few of them from fishing", what is the purpose of the
regulation?

Willi


The few that it does prevent are those that follow the stocking truck and
take most of the fish out of the stream by the end of October or whenever it
arrives. Then the catch-and-release folks (a different market niche) make
multiple trips to the stream over the next 6 - 8 months. Overall result is a
good experience for fly fishermen in the winter and spring, and a good
experience for everybody else in summer and fall. More fishermen, more
tackle, more licenses.

Now, there's another argument, from a totally different perspective: the
stocking truck as a rural supplement to food stamps. But that's for another
time and place.

Bob

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Interesting etiquette. It's like walking upstream when done fishing and
spooking the sipping trout targets of the fisherman above you?

Thanks!
"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:08:21 GMT, "just al"
wrote:

Ok what's top posting...this too, I'm sure, will get me in trouble...

http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usen.../faq_topp.html
--
Charlie...

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Bob Patton" rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote in message
...
//snip//
The few that it does prevent are those that follow the stocking truck and
take most of the fish out of the stream by the end of October or whenever
it
arrives. Then the catch-and-release folks (a different market niche) make
multiple trips to the stream over the next 6 - 8 months. Overall result is
a
good experience for fly fishermen in the winter and spring, and a good
experience for everybody else in summer and fall. More fishermen, more
tackle, more licenses.

//snip//

Sorry for my own response to my own somewhat unclear post. I should have
inserted in between the first two sentences something to indicate that
preventing the stockers from immediately being taken allows the
catch-and-release folks to make trips . . .

Bob
Who eventually will learn to proofread.

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

I like that observation a lot. I was taught to fly fish in Montana.
Etiquette was everything (and etiquette on the street, ranch, or woods was
no different--do un to others...etc.)

I have verbally fought many young guides as they drifted (with clients)
through the hole I was wade fishing. Poor decision, but they apparently
were not taught to row away or wait for a wave on before moving through. Or
they realize that, "The guy that walks upstream more than a mile to fish a
run must know what he's doing and allowing my clients to fish that run will
boost my tip."

Again the greed comes into play.
"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Willi" wrote


I sometimes have similar feelings about what you saying but I think
that's do partly to old fartism


hehe, I will admit that I often wonder if my attitude is more the result
of
reality or more the result of the "good ole days were better" B.S. that I
used to see in the old farts, before I became one ...certainly, I have
less
patience with others than in years gone by

I'm sure I come across as more negative than I really am ... just
something
about me and my approach to things.

I once got a GREAT dog in for training. After the first couple weeks I
got
a phone call from the owner and I proceeded to point out many elements of
the dogs nature that would need work and effort, if he were to reach his
potential. After a bit, the owner interrupted my spiel with, "Sounds
like
he's a washout, when do you want me to pick him up?" He thought I was
being
totally negative, until I replied..

"WASHOUT !!!!????? This is one of the finest young animals I've ever had
my hands on ..... I'd NEVER bother to spend the extra time and effort
thinking about the little weaknesses of a lesser one. The fact that
after
only two weeks with him I'm deeply committed to examining every little
thing
I can to improve him is a great compliment of him, not a criticism."

My "negative" attitude about the modern fly fisher has similar elements
.....
if it wasn't such a wonderful sport, I wouldn't be interested enough to
point out the weaknesses I do see .... it pays to invest your interest in
the best. FFing is one of the best outdoor activities ..... but, it
could
be better. One thing I've discussed with three people publishing "how
to"
articles and books is the idea of including more about "ethics" in such
material. Seems to me that we used to learn technique from granddad and
dad
and more experienced friends and we ALSO learned how to behave from those
same people. Now, many guys are learning technique from videos and
guides
that don't also provide the other types of instruction. We used to learn
proper behavior from "a look" ( smile or frown) or a choice word or two
from
a respected person .... now that the educational system is changing, the
new technique educators should provide for a replacement to those old
behavior teaching "looks" ...imho

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Handyman Mike wrote:snip .. i don't believe in private waters either.

Don't think that will ever go over in Texas as only 2%of the state is not
privately owned.

Big Dale

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:32:22 GMT, "just al"
wrote:

Interesting etiquette. It's like walking upstream when done fishing and
spooking the sipping trout targets of the fisherman above you?


As long as you trim the posts you're replying to, it's okay with most
people. Be aware that it's basically a violation of custom and
manners. I happen to prefer top posting myself, but the 'Net has
trained me into this. Just figure it's one of those things that would
take too long to explain and it still wouldn't make much sense unless
you knew the very early history of the 'Net. Live with it, learn it,
you don't have to love it.

There's no need to quote 2 pages of stuff to agree with or refute one
line of it. You _must_ remember to trim your posts. Too many people
forget it (mostly top posters, btw).

The last paragraph wasn't just aimed at you. I'm hoping some of the
others will read it and take it to heart.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Bob Patton" rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote in message
...

....Now, there's another argument, from a totally different perspective:
the
stocking truck as a rural supplement to food stamps. But that's for
another
time and place.

Another time, perhaps, but I don't think you'll find a better place. :)

Wolfgang

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:32:05 -0700, Willi wrote:



Peter Charles wrote:


Anybody who fishes for steelhead and salmon on the Great Lakes can't
get too snooty about stockers for every damned salmonid swimming the
Great Lakes (Superior coasters excepted)


Are they still working on trying to re-establish healthy population of
Coasters?


Willi



I don't know how much attention they're getting. There's still a
viable population cruising the north shore but I think the south shore
is done.


Peter

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A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Larry L wrote:


My "negative" attitude about the modern fly fisher has similar elements ....
if it wasn't such a wonderful sport, I wouldn't be interested enough to
point out the weaknesses I do see .... it pays to invest your interest in
the best. FFing is one of the best outdoor activities ..... but, it could
be better. One thing I've discussed with three people publishing "how to"
articles and books is the idea of including more about "ethics" in such
material. Seems to me that we used to learn technique from granddad and dad
and more experienced friends and we ALSO learned how to behave from those
same people. Now, many guys are learning technique from videos and guides
that don't also provide the other types of instruction.


A couple years ago I was fishing a section of river with no one as far
as the eye could see either upstream or down. This young man sees me
fishing, pulls over and after suiting up, wades in the river about
twenty feet upstream of me and starts fishing. I asked him what he was
doing and he commented that he was going to fish the head of the pool. I
was flabbergasted but decided just to find another piece of water,
hoping that he wouldn't be following me.

After I cooled down, I tried to figure out WTF he was doing. There was
no one out and I probably cover close to a mile of river without running
into another angler. I came to the conclusion that he was a new angler
and that he probably learned to fly fish on our heavily fished "Gold
Medal" waters. Many new anglers are learning how to FF on "famous"
waters that are usually crowded. People tend to "gang up" on these
waters and share productive runs. The "manners" you learn on a crowded
river aren't the "manners" to use in other situations or maybe the
"manners" have just changed.

Willi

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Willi wrote:


A couple years ago I was fishing a section of river with no one as far
as the eye could see either upstream or down. This young man sees me
fishing, pulls over and after suiting up, wades in the river about
twenty feet upstream of me and starts fishing.

at least out there you can usually detect easily and at a good distance
when someone drops in on you. in most of the places we hunt trout in nc,
because of the vegetation and configuration of the streams, it's tough
to know where or when folks drop in. we generally figure it out by the
sudden end in catching fish and by spotting wet footprints on the
streamside rocks and boulders. rarely do we see anyone actually drop in.

once, wally and i planned on an all day assault fishing trek up a
lengthy stretch of water we thought we could control almost to the end
if we started early enough. the creek ran through a deep ravine tough to
enter anywhere except where we started and where we were going to exit.
we got in the water at first light... at about 3 pm, we stopped catching
fish. we hiked upstream at a rapid pace, started seeing wet footprints,
and finally discovered two guys who had bushwacked from the ridge down
into the stream so they could fish back upstream to their car... same
thing we were doing, only we were making it a full day project. it was
tough to be upset with those younguns because we knew what they had to
get through in order to start where they did - we had done it once
before. they probably didn't know any better, but they also probably
didn't know we were below them on the water...and we had a good day
before they started catching "our fish" g. we were ****ed only because
we didn't succeed in our grand and painful scheme of fishing the entire
2-3 miles of the stream. we climbed out of the stream, sat by the truck
in very pleasant surroundings for more than an hour, drank cold, cold
beer, talked about silly stuff like harry crews and wally's years of
managing a band, and silently acknowledged our good fortune for having
those hours on a carolina mountain stream.

jeff

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Jeff Miller wrote:

snipped we climbed out of the stream, sat by the truck
in very pleasant surroundings for more than an hour, drank cold, cold
beer, talked about silly stuff like harry crews and wally's years of
managing a band, and silently acknowledged our good fortune for having
those hours on a carolina mountain stream.

jeff


those were the day's my friend.... dadadada...

that was a good adventure.

floated the catawba yesterday.... easier on these old bones ;-)

wally

found a founding fish
 

went shad fishing yesterday with pj... the first shad of the season (for
my boat) was caught... but, not by me. dammit.. anyhow, it's time to
plan another fine adventure... what are you doing next weekend (send me
an e-mail)?

jeff

ezflyfisher wrote:



Jeff Miller wrote:

snipped we climbed out of the stream, sat by the truck

in very pleasant surroundings for more than an hour, drank cold, cold
beer, talked about silly stuff like harry crews and wally's years of
managing a band, and silently acknowledged our good fortune for having
those hours on a carolina mountain stream.

jeff


those were the day's my friend.... dadadada...

that was a good adventure.

floated the catawba yesterday.... easier on these old bones ;-)

wally

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Jeff Miller" wrote

we climbed out of the stream, sat by the truck
in very pleasant surroundings for more than an hour, drank cold, cold
beer, talked about silly stuff like harry crews and wally's years of
managing a band, and silently acknowledged our good fortune for having
those hours on a carolina mountain stream.

well formed imagery, bud...

yfitp
wayno ("it's a measure of people who don't understand
the pleasures of life in a hillbilly band..." waylon
jennings, *amanda*)

found a founding fish
 

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:vXm_b.13016$iB.1742@lakeread06...
went shad fishing yesterday with pj... the first shad of the season (for
my boat) was caught... but, not by me. dammit..

i am *amazed* that i haven't yet had a phone call on that little trip...

yfitp
wayno

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Jack Tucker wrote in message ...

[delayed harvest] Tis water is currently open
year round to fly fishing and spin fishing with artificial
lures;

If I remember correctly (and the actual wording seems to support),
this is not a true statement about all special regs water
in PA. There is some water designated fly-fishing only.

this group whining that their children have no place to fish.

If my kid lived right next to a special regs place, I might
say the same thing...

to "harvest" by bait fisherman during the period of June 15 through
Labor Day. [ http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fish_Boat/agd04-01.htm,
not all browsers will work].

The wording on that site:

"The Commission has been approached by members of the Traditional
Anglers of Pennsylvania requesting that regulations pertaining to the
Delayed Harvest programs be modified to permit all tackle during the
mid-June through Labor Day harvest period. Currently, the same tackle
restrictions apply to the harvest period as the remainder of the year;
that is, either fly fishing only or artificial lures only depending on
which program regulations apply to individual waters. The harvest
period is to allow anglers to take trout that otherwise face less
desirable habitat with the onset of warmer water and low flows typical
of most seasonal trout stocked streams during the summer. The
assertion that the stocked trout paid for by general license and trout
stamp dollars and thus all anglers should have equal access to harvest
trout is fundament to the interests of the Traditional Anglers.

In addition to the equity issue, staff believe that the all tackle
provisions during the harvest period might be beneficial in
encouraging traditional anglers to the delayed harvest concept.
Moreover, by mid-June, all tackle activity on these areas should not
be profound because many anglers are less inclined to go trout
angling."

If the "warm water" stuff is real, then why not allow bait during the
harvest period?

IMO, I still believe that these problems would not arise as much if
fly-fishing-only waters did not exist -- rather they should be
artificials only -- the FFO designation only serves to alienate other
fishermen, and internal fights among fishing groups are not going
to help preserve our sports. We have enough attacks from outside as
it is.

Jon.

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
I've seen really ****-poor behavior from father-son "teams."

That's for sure. Some of the most disturbing behavior I've seen while
fishing is some asshole father teaching his son to be an asshole just like
dad.

Joe F.

A Plea for help & a head's up
 

Scott Seidman wrote:

When we were float stocking, we had a father/son duo cast a spinner right
into our float bucket.

What is "float stocking" ?

--
Ken Fortenberry